Bitcoin Forum

Is washing Bitcoin still a thing? I'm hearing it's impossible to disconnect you from the coins, and that depending on how much resources is put into it, the coins can always be traced back to you. Is this true?

If you use a good mixer it will break the link between the input money and the output, unless you use a SPV wallet and the server your wallet connects is owned by a chain analysis company, or you use a blockchain explorer linked to chain analysis.

It worth mentioning though that there are a fair number of services that consider mixed coins somewhat "tainted" and may try to confiscate that money from you for this kind of reasons. Some people do care about this, some don't, some may be knowing/avoiding them, but it's better you know this part too.

Of course, there are also P2P means of acquiring bitcoins, which may not be so easy to link to your identity.

How many types of mixing methods are there?

* I know of the mixing ChipMixer is doing (worth mentioning that I wear their paid advertising); if you want to use their services make sure you use the Tor link you'll see in their Announcement or on my signature and also make sure you read the FAQ
* I know of CoinJoin; some wallets do it, some mixers claim to do it, but it's not clear whether they use or not actual CoinJoin; some claim that CoinJoin doesn't look that much like mixed coins (hence some services may think they're not mixed), but some also claim the coins are also not shuffled that good and tracking can happen (the link is not 100% broken in this case)
* not actual mixing, but I'll tell about Monero too (privacy altcoin) since some bring it into this kind of discussions: if you go this path keep in mind that if the services you use to convert betwee Monero and Bitcoin may track you and make your effort worthless

Definitely not. Bitcoin might not be completely anonymous (as everything else accessible via the Internet), but it does provide satisfactory levels of privacy.

Mixing across your own wallet, CoinJoining, using a reputable mixer, Lightning etc. I recommend you reading this: http://chipmixorflykuxu56uxy7gf5o6ggig7xru7dnihc4fm4cxqsc63e6id.onion/articles/basic-theory-2 (needs Tor Browser to load)

Reputable Bitcoin mixer will help to break the trace of your coins, but you must make sure don't use centralized exchange if you want to trade your coins. If you use centralized exchanges, you're just kill the purpose of mixing since they will record your IP address and ask you to submit KYC. Don't believe with any centralized exchange that still offer temporary no KYC, your account will be frozen since they've track your funds come from mixer.

The best way is use decentralized exchange e.g. Bisq or trade via non custodial P2P.

Although there's many ways and sites that can mix Bitcoin, just use Chipmixer, it's currently the best mixer.

The most obvious option is to use mixers which can break the trace of your coins, however this option has many issues as some services could refuse to deal with you due to the history of those coins, another option is to find a service which does not require that you identify yourself and then you can convert to other coins and then convert them back, this way you will have coins which cannot be directly traced back to the coins you bought while identifying yourself.

So would something as follows be better than coinjoining or mixing ?

1) Send KYCed BTC to a new address from Etherum Electrum wallet operating in Tails on public computer #1 at location A.

2) Create Kucoin account without KYC through the same Tails on the same USB stick as the above but from another public computer (computer #2) and a different location (location B) using different ip (ip #2).

3) Exchange BTC to XMR

4) Send XMR to a newly created cold wallet running on a Live Linux USB on public computer #3 at location C using ip #3.

5) Send %30 of the XMR to a new Hodlhodl account created throught the Live Linux USB on public computer #4 with ip #4 at location D

6) Send the remaining %70 of XMR to a new Bisq account created throught the Live Linux USB on public computer #5 using ip #5 at location E

7) Convert XMRs in both the exchanges into BTC.

8 ) Send the BTC from Hodlhodl to a new Etherum address from a new Etherum wallet on the same device as step 1.

9) Send the BTC from Bisq to a new Etherum Electrum address from the same wallet and device as step 9.

What is Etherum wallet? did you mean Electrum wallet? you need to run it using your own server or just use Bitcoin core and run full node.

How you can sure Kucoin wouldn't ask you to submit KYC? also you're not allowed to use VPN in order to hide your real IP address. Just avoid Kucoin if you want to achieve better privacy.

Which exchanges it is? as I said before, don't use Kucoin at all.

Don't forget to use Tor network when you want to access hodlhodl and bisq, it will help you to boost your privacy.

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I would like to ask why you need to follow that's complicated step when you can just use Chipmixer and Bisq to achieve 100% privacy?

Goodness gracious! You're right. I meant Electrum. Why not Tails?

I thought Kucoin didn't ask for KYC for transactions less than 50 btc. I'm not using VPN. What else do you recommend besides Kucoin?

Hodlhodl and Bisq

I wanted to know if this method would be better in terms of effectivness. Also using Chipmixer means ill have to just trust that their method works the way they say.

Holy cow! Absolute hell multi quoting on this site!

It is depend on whoever wants to track you, the more that person has access to more information, the more he can tire.

I can assume the:

• Ordinary user: use any mixer service that will break the link.
• Government or company: You must manage a full node and know how to enhance privacy.
• A person or one is ready to pay any amount to tire: Delete any application, create your own software, run it on tor and focus on make your own hardware.

You've made it more complicated than it needs. Exchanging BTC for XMR is a great way to make yourself untraceable, no doubt. You need to be cautious, though. For instance, don't do both trades at the same day. Preferably, don't use Bisq for both trades as well, because you might have identity leak. Use Bisq to buy XMR, and Robosats (https://learn.robosats.com/) to sell.

There's no such thing as 100% privacy. Sure, ChipMixer is great for most uses, but exchanging BTC <-> XMR and vice versa eliminates the trust required to use ChipMixer.

Worth mentioning Chipmixer is the only service that breaks chronological chain of inputs also, something to me still the most interesting way to mix, and still perhaps the method detectors use as the most logical way to trace transactions. In other words, you will get coins even older than what you send.

Note I also wear the signature so account for my bias.

Note also this is not trustless.

So basically you're saying coin mixing or my method is not %100 effective and that the btc can still be traced back to you.

Even if you received some KYCed bitcoin from someone and the bitcoins are known to the government still you have the option to use a mixer for your own privacy and then there is less chance for bitcoins to be traced by the government or any other organization and there are many projects providing these services like ChipMixer which is famous here in the forum and many people are advertising their services.

How would that work? KYCed btc > cold wallet > Bisq > covert to XMR > cold wallet > Robosat > Convert to BTC > cold wallet ??

Yes.

Can you walk me through the steps? Or would it be better to just use another cold wallet?

If OneSignature's bitcoin can be traced back to some saying those are Satoshi's coins just from the date they were mined (nobody else had bitcoin back then so there is a good chance those were Satoshi's) then there is a good chance anybodies can be.

It seems that there are always people who don't believe that something works. Some don't believe private blockchains (like Monero) are private, some don't believe in Bitcoin mixers. Of course, there are scammers in every field, including mixers. But it doesn't seem that mixed funds can be traced to a person. The shuffling is just good enough to make it impossible.
Another issue is, of course, that mixers might often be used by criminals, so the bits and pieces you'll get might look suspicious because a person felt a need to use a mixer. But o don't think there will be any proof, any way to link the funds that went into the mixer with those that went out of it, if a person gets them out to a noncustodial wallet.

I mean, we dont have that problem now do we? The same method cannot be used.

Can we say that the method I described (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5427580.msg61421196#msg61421196) AS WELL AS coin mixing would be even better? Perhaps an overkill, but as long as it is better (even %1) and not actually worse.

"Washing" or "tumbling" Bitcoin refers to the practice of using a third-party service to mix one's Bitcoin with other users' Bitcoin in order to obscure the trail of transactions leading back to the original owner. The idea is that by mixing the Bitcoin with other users' coins, it becomes more difficult for anyone to track which coins belong to the original owner.

It is true that it is generally not possible to completely disassociate oneself from Bitcoin transactions. The public and transparent nature of the blockchain means that every transaction is recorded and can be traced back to the original owner, at least in principle. However, the extent to which transactions can be traced depends on a number of factors, including the level of effort and resources put into the task, as well as the specific methods used to mix the coins.

In general, it is thought that using a reputable Bitcoin tumbling service can make it significantly more difficult to trace transactions back to the original owner. However, there is no guarantee of complete anonymity, and it is possible that with sufficient effort and resources, transactions could still be traced back to their original owner. As such, it is important for you to carefully consider the potential risks and trade-offs involved in using a Bitcoin tumbling service.

Okay, I have a genuine question since the majority here mentioned mixing services such as Chipmixer. Let's suppose that I have a fully verified account on Binance; they have my ID, tax number, full address, and everything, and I purchase at some point $10.000 worth of bitcoin. How can it become untraceable since a CEX that has all my personal details knows that at some point I bought X amount of bitcoin? The mixer will only make the transactions untraceable back to me, but a centralized organization already knows what I've bought in the past.

Sell same amount on same CEX. Have proof you sold what you bought and have nothing.
Buy same amount on non KYC exchange. Never use KYC exchange again.

Donate them, no longer tracing back to you. How old are you Op?

What I do is to withdraw from a KYC exchange using a coin which is cheap to move out there (low exchange fees), for example: Dash, Litecoin, Monero, etc.
Once I managed to withdraw that money in altcoin, I use a non-KYC exchange to swap those altcoins for Bitcoin directly to my wallet.

I do not do it for the sake of privacy but rather to save money in exchange fees, the fact I end up with non-KYC satoshis is a plus.

the answer is true, if you can check it one by one actually there is firm and app to track bitcoin transaction but still it can be untraceable in my opinion. you can use multiple bitcoin mixer and build a new bitcoin wallet not one but couple of it and last if you want to sell, sell it on P2P or exchange it/bridge it to other coin like monero so it become untraceable?

anyway why you asking these  :D  ::) ??? are you want laundry some money  ;D ;D

If you're referring to how to remain private by maintaining a privacy with your every transactions made, there are two ways you can go about it, run a full mode using bitcoincore client with Tor, you can also require the services of bitcoin mixing in which we have some reputable ones here on the forum that provides mixing addresses for privacy, example is the bitcoin "chipmixer" which hold their signature campaign on the forum, you can read more about mixing guide from this link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5146241.0

Bitcoin is a pseudo-anonymous cryptocurrency.  To increase your anonymity, it is better to use mixers or Monero (XMR).  

At the same time, when building a chain of successive exchanges, you need to avoid cryptocurrency exchanges that use KYC and AML procedures.  At the same time, even the main developer of the anonymous cryptocurrency Monero wrote that absolutely anonymous cryptocurrencies do not exist and even Monero is not absolutely anonymous.  

You can achieve a certain degree of anonymity and privacy online.  

But much depends not only on the use of specific technical tools, but also on the actions of the user himself (on his publicity).

KYCed bitcoin? You mean the bitcoin which you bought on an exchange where you completed KYC right?

If that is the case first you need to withdraw to mix or further but the exchange knows you withdrew the BTC, and almost any centralized exchange whether it has mandatory KYC or not will ask you to verify identify once you try to withdraw huge amount or when they feel something suspicious.

So sell BTC on exchange for fiat then buy BTC using p2p like bisq then use mixing service so it will be untainted.

If your address is public and you use a non-custodial wallet, it can always be traced. For example, if you use Binance, Binance is fully conscious of whatever you deposit there. When you send to another address, they know where you sent it. That everything can be traced. As kind of a consequence, the only way to break the link is to use a reputable mixer and a non-custodial or hardware wallet. Then it will no longer be able to track you, despite the fact that all transactions are traceable on the Blockchain. They would not assume which address you have been using. As something of a matter of fact, your privacy is entirely dependent on you. Even if you do not use KYC for exchange or wallet, they can identify you based on your IP address. So when using wallets, you must exercise extreme caution.

Yes, but that doesn't eliminate your footprints. If you bought 1 BTC in Binance, completed KYC, and sent them afterwards for mixing, they already know enough; namely, how much at least you're likely to own. You need to make sure that they can't turn anything against you. And the way to do that is to withdraw every KYC-ed bitcoin (which is like undoing the purchase), and use that money to buy non-KYC bitcoin later on.

That's actually a great idea I hadn't thought about. However, in my case, I had non-KYC Bitcoin, which was then deposited and sold on Bitstamp as Litecoin. After that, they were moved to Binance, turned into BUSD, and moved to Metamask. They stayed undercover for quite a while and multiplied through staking and yield farming. My largest mistake now is that, after Luna crashed, I moved all my money from being undercover on Metamask, on Binance. As a result, I'm now presenting a larger value than I ever had on a CEX. For instance, let's suppose that I deposited $4,000 and now have $6,000 worth of crypto. In my case, it's practically impossible to permanently delete my traces.

I wanna recommend a thread by n0nce about the whole topic of privacy in Bitcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5410526.0

This is a great starting point and very comprehensive summary of possible solutions right now and ideas for layer1 Bitcoin privacy.

I think mixers are the only way, Good mixers make it impossible to track the precedents and the trail of your bitcoins as the money moves across a lot of wallets in different byte sizes to reach your wallet which is the final destination. Good mixers don't even keep the track of this themselves so even if the authorities question them about it they don't have any idea as to what the trail was. Other than this obviously there is no way to wash off your BTC again once you have established a KYC based trail atleast somehwere.

Well, you can split them into different transactions and not at once.
Using multiple times of mixer services I think that could be your coin becomes clean and it is untraceable from you, using also a p2p exchange will perhaps decrease the chance of tracing your identity. It could be using conjoin and mixing service or selling your bitcoin to monero and when you have monero buy again into bitcoin and transfer to your cold storage where your identity was not linked.

There is a very interesting document: http://www.adamdoupe.com/publications/bitcoin-mixers-fc2021.pdf
which describes different types of mixers. Really worth to read!
Especially to focus on forum's favourite Chip Mixer (which at the end is really good!)

Let me quote the abstract:

Yes it's true but even after splitting transactions if the Mixer's servers are private their Algo must be keeping the trail of where it is transferring the money and where the transaction is ending into. This much of info is enough for the bots these days to trace out complete path of the funds. But yes the Monero one is a better idea, if you both mix then switch to monero, then mix again into some wallet there is a very low chance you'll be caught.

I wouldn't say "impossible", since there's always a way to obfuscate your Bitcoin balance from third parties and even the government itself. It's just that it'll be much harder to "anonymize" your Bitcoins when there's KYC all over the place. Governments are ramping up their surveillance efforts, to help avoid people from getting access to Bitcoin without providing their personally-identifiable information.

If you're keen on hiding your Bitcoins from plain sight, then just use a reputable mixer (preferably non-custodial) or simply convert your BTC to XMR in an instant exchange (eg: SimpleSwap, CoinPlaza, FixedFloat) for complete peace of mind. It's as simple as that. For the truly paranoid, using a VPN is a must to add an additional layer of privacy. You should always seek to change your methods, especially when governments are constantly adding new obstacles to help prevent you from "laundering" your coins. It's a good thing Bitcoin is decentralized, or it would've been compromised already. As long as you follow the necessary security precautions, you'll have nothing to worry about. Just my thoughts ;D