Bitcoin Forum

Deer Mates i have started a plain to shorting BTC at different levels i start my trade with 3$ at the price of 17091$ but market keeps going higher then i take another trade for averaging my opening position at 17269 with another 3$ and then i open another short trade at 17455$ and now market is going higher and higher and my liquidation price is 2090$ which is not far but i tomorrow deposit more money for take liquidation price further away , And make some more short DCA ,
So guys what are your thoughts and advices .

A short position might likely lead to bull trap. I will advice you not to average when bitcoin price is already low and the price drop is too much significant.

It is just like $10 in total which you are using to learn derivative trading, which is good and I will not advice you to go beyond that for now.

Start with low leverage. If you begin the trade at $17000 and later average with $3 and again average and the liquidation price is at $20000, that means you use around 10x leverage or more to first open the position. That is high, use low leverage.

Always think of making profit even without averagimg, but averaging could later help to increase the liquidation price range.

Avoid bear trap.

Use a much lower leverage instead of "shorting with DCA" maybe even x3 or lower so that you learn how the market works whilst not putting your funds at a high risk when using high leverage and panicking to adjust the margin of the open position.

Also, look out for Bitcoin historic support and resistance levels, they can be helpful for you to determine where your stop loss, take profit and liquidation price should be.

It is very risky to invest in bitcoin in a short position and right --it could lead to a bull trap as a reply above.
Investing in the long term and waiting until there is the stability of a bullish trend in the market would really give you a good profit, no stop loss is needed because all you have to do is to wait for your desired profit when you harvest it.
DCA's way of buying bitcoin is also good if you have a lot of funds, as long as you are not selling your bitcoin under the price that you purchased it, you are safe from losses.

Can you share why you shorted Bitcoin right now?
Like if you can provide some technical analysis is much better.

I am not against your position like you are shorting the market. But averaging or using DCA short position on future trading or with leverage when doing trade is like not worth it because remember that there may be some fee or funding rate fee as long as your trade is open.
I suggest you also use low leverage.

With $3 as your capital, you will have to use very high leverage that is very risky.

Too high leverage like 100x will kill your position anytime with about +/- 0.5% price change. Are you able to control if price changes only 0.5%? I believe you can not manage risk with this too minor price fluctuation.

Better when you have small capital to start, invest in Bitcoin. Work and buy more Bitcoin in 2023 bear market and wait for 2024 bull market. Don't trade spot. Don't trade margin. Don't trade future.

Websites for Dollar Cost Averaging (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5404885.msg60490074#msg60490074)

      I can't say that the strategy you are doing is wrong mate, because of course we are traders, we have our ways of making money here in cryptocurrency. Also, apart from that, what you are doing is good and good from what I can see.

I also agree with what you said about DCA because it seems like we're only saving this way, what you're doing is a strategy of day trading.

Am sure you will have don your analysis well before creating a short position, but I don't think the best thing to do now is to short bitcoin, actually the amount you deposited is kind of small, but no amount is small, no matter how small the amount you lose is, you will definitely feel It.

With the current movement of bitcoin, I think it will be better you avoid future trading for now, stay away from either long position or short position, if you want to trade its better you trade stop for now, and if you still insist on trading futures, then I think you should deposit like $10 and use only $3 to enter your trade, the other amount left will help you increase your liquidation price, make sure you use low laverage, the higher your laverage the higher the chances of being liquidated and also make sure you do your analysis well before entering a trade.
But the best thing to do currently is just to invest in bitcoin for long term and have rest of mind.

Averaging might cost your more especially with that amount, I’d rather to deposit huge one time and play with that capital already. The market is also unpredictable better not to expect that much and remember that it can’t go always according to your plan so be more flexible with your strategy. My advice is to continue learn how to trade perfectly and save more capital so you can really feel the good profit.

I know your frustration since I also experience that when I started trading in futures, when I go short, the price go up, when I go long, the price go down, very frustrating. The next thing you'll do is to doubt your technical analysis, but it's the right thing to do, because if your technical analysis fails you most of the time, it only means something is wrong.

Trial and error is a must until you find the right indicators that works for you. Don't put too much leverage especially if you're not that confident about technical analysis.

I guess the trader is learning. It would be better for him to just trade with the $10 he is using. Later he can increase the amount if derivative trading favours him.

The market was predictable, even I read on news and social media that some people might fall to bear trap which I too knew would happen. Before the FTX fud, bitcoin price was very low already, but FTX implosion result to more downtrend. After bitcoin got to $15400, it increased back to $16900, then decrease to $15800 the second and third time or so. That means the market is not going down further again. I expected traders to long than to short.

I do not short this days even as bitcoin is at $17400 today, I prefer not to trade than to go short because I prefer to just go long in a way I can hold for long.

It is good to use high amount of money to trade future while using very low leverage, but not for beginners. I think he started well as he even believes in averaging which could help swing traders.


Technical analysis can fail at anytime and it can be often if the right leverage, averaging and other strategies are not used appropriately, but as OP did not know he should long at a very low price like $16000, he needs to really still learn more about trading. Even the daily candle stick used with indicators are all suggesting bull market.

Are you a complete beginner or just a beginner when it comes to future trading but you already have experience spot trading?

If it is the former then I would recommend that you take your time learning how to trade and avoid using leverage as not only you will lose your money but you will not learn much either, now if it is the latter I will say I have never been a fan of averaging your position, if you made a bad read about the market then take the loss, by averaging the only thing you are doing is to go against the trend of the market, and when at the same time you are shorting it this can snowball into huge losses if you are not careful.

I never encourage derivative markets due to its high risk factors. Imagine what is you would have been buying when bitcoin was trading around $30k and then $20k and finally around $16k levels. Yeah, you can simply keep holding and I am sure you will get at least 2x profits before end of 2024. If your point is immediate or monthly profits, I have answer for that as well.

If you focus on instant profits then you you should not have opened this topic because you must have plans before shorting bitcoins for the situations like market goes against you. When you do not have concrete plans for what to do when market moves as per your expectation and against your expectation, there are 90% of chances to lose your capital. I am sorry for saying that but fact is open. Switch to long term holding and enjoy massive profits over the time.

It looks like you are still confused about trading and started shorting BTC at the wrong price. But if the market position changes and goes down again, you make a profit. And if you haven't closed your trade yet, profits are starting to show there as the bitcoin price is now $17,018. But if you have closed your trade out of fear of losing even more money, you have seriously lost your money.

Starting futures trading is not easy and requires experience and skills beyond spot trading. If you have not been able to determine where the market will move, you will take the wrong position and have experienced it.

It looks like you don't need to average anymore and the position you hold is already making a profit. Now, if you decide to continue holding a short position, you need to set a stop loss in case the price starts moving in the opposite direction to your expectations.

Thanks Alot Mate its all my thought and this time it worked but not every time so next time more analysis before opening the trade , but at the time seeing long term charts i see a clear resistance on 14k$ btc which needs to test before going 25k$ or more what you think ?

Why not ? If the price of bitcoin is down doesn't mean the next minute will turn bull instantly. All it depends on is the trade's strategy to know if the price will soon go up. In this case RSI is a good indicator that can help to indicate the over sold so that you can prepare to exit the market. Because sometimes the market stay bear longer than expected and traders keep eating from it.

We have different trading strategies. This time that I know the market has been very bearish and I know bear trap is very possible with many traders fund liquidation, I do not just prefer to go short even if indicators are indicating it. When bitcoin got to $18000, I close the long position opened but I do not open a short position while I bought back when the market falled significantly as it dawned most on altcoins with over 10 to 30% price decrease. I can not risk opening a short position this time around. As you said, traders have different strategies.

You are also right and it is also good to play safe just like you have explained because that is playing safe. It is better to have your funds intact than to carelessly lose it. Traders can choose to follow whatever trend they deem proper but I won't have to long a short position because of expectation of bull in the future but we don't know how long the bear will drag with our funds disappearing. In this kind of time, I will have to stay outside to keep my fund for another chance.

I guess OP must be already having stoploss to prevent unexpected liquidation at any time. In my opinion, trading futures without plans like no stoploss or no target levels must be suicidal. Being profitable at any point of time is not a big thing in futures trading but exiting with profits is really a wise decision when considering the amount of fluctuations we do experience on day to day basis. I stopped futures trading hence I do not suggest anyone any trick these days still if I hear someone making profits out of futures trading, which really makes me happy and urging me to get into it as early as possible but honestly I am not having any plan to do so.

Well, but this is something that you are making decisions based on what criteria? Not much can be done if you don't have some type of study previously done, I am one of the people who believe that a fundamental analysis and a technical analysis must be carried out to be able to reach conclusions like yours, and if I want to operate in the short term, I would with a time of 4 hours, because I believe that I can react quickly to any sudden change in the market, now if I do it at larger intervals I think it would be more seen as a long-term trade, or almost as an investment, but obviously I know that long-term trades are the ones that leave the most money.

I don't think it would be a wise decision to short bitcoin at this price.
Instead of this, it seems more wiser to long from the current price (with low leverage). And if the price drops to $13k buy again ( This will reduce your average price) and again buy if the price drops to $10k .

The above is just an example. You need to calculate your liquidation price and according to that, you have to plan your entries. Just wanted to say that I think a long position from here can be a good relative to short. Ultimately your money your decision.

Usually I never recommend anything for derivative markets for crypto traders but if you are ready to risk then I guess you are right that high risk traders may opt for taking long positions in derivative markets with relatively small leverages. Small leverages can help to delay liquidation instead of what OP was mentioning about adding excess funds.

But, we are not suggesting to only one person or any particular person. I mean open discussion is for all type of people hence we need to suggest the best and cannot stay calm just because of "not my money".

shorting is a high-risk strategy, as the potential losses can be infinite if the market goes against your position.

IT IS important to have an exit plan for your trades. which clearly you don't. you are of the assumption that you are right and that the market should fall at a given point, but then that is wishful thinkig at best and you shouldnt trade this way

There’s always a risk and seriously I won’t trade with that kind of small capital because its hard to appreciate it and the fees might not be worth it with that. I suggest to trade with enough capital and good analysis so you can be more effecting. Do trade depends on the market, because you can always play short and long depends on the price trend. Futures trading are too tricky, you have to be wise and trade better with this.

It's true that it's very difficult to manage when the capital spent is that small, in my opinion, the capital spent is tantamount to burning our money. I do not deny that lucky people can multiply with small capital, but once again it is a very high risk. If you want to be like that, we have to be really precise when entering the lowest point or the highest point.
The capital we spend will also be a factor whether the trades we make are successful or not.

Normal trading is risky but how much more the futures trading? With that said, will you guys still manage to use a high capital? And the OP said he is a beginner. For beginners, they will be advised to start small first until they master things. Obviously, we won't use a relatively small capital as there are also fees in trading and we might only end up paying more for the fees than the profits that we can make.

It's possible for a small capital to go a long way for someone who is already good at trading. Trading is done in process, it's not similar to playing a gambling in the casino where you can just bet and if you are lucky you can multiply your money easily.

You are right, what happens is that there is no security to operate in futures systems, because the market is so unstable that at any moment you can start to win and if you do not exit quickly, your position will burn, and if you do not have enough attention You can liquidate the account, that is the extreme care that I see that must be taken when operating in Futures. What I would recommend to the person who operates in futures is that when operating, be very careful, I personally do not operate with futures, the truth is that I would like to because I am curious, in addition to feeling the adrenaline, but I have no experience and it seems too much to me. risky, and the truth is I don't want to lose money, because it hurts me to lose money on something that I know can be good, money is what should be taken care of the most, although for many people they don't stop it.

It is not only shorting that is high risk, long also is high risk, so trading itself is high risk not just strategies to trading because both shorting or going long/swing are strategies.


Yeah you are right. OP is just making sell orders with the hope that price will drop but unfortunately for him the price kept going down and that is why his liquidity keep going down and he is trying to refund his account. He is entry the market at every expected point for price drop, this pattern is also called martingale. Martingale strategy requires enough capital and it appears op doesn't have a clue to what he is up to. He could keep expecting price drop all through this year  ;D

As a beginner in futures trading, it is very important to be cautious and do your research before entering the market. The futures market has high risk and high volatility, which can lead to huge losses for traders who do not have a solid understanding of the market mechanism and the associated risks. it is important to evaluate your risk profile and understand trading techniques before entering the market.

If you are just testing the waters, do it safely and don't use too much money, use leverage wisely. Liquidation will haunt those who are greedy.

Losing money in futures trading is very painful and it will be a bitter experience. Therefore, you must learn how to minimize not losing money easily.

I have traded, but not in futures, I think that this is something much more delicate and according to my opca experience, I believe that here in futures trading technical analysis works much more and of course taking fundamental analysis into consideration, only that the fundamental analysis here is little because they are movies that are released very quickly and what should be taken very seriously is that one should not act like crazy and not leave with a great flattening or latage, in the case of crypto, I think that it only I would do it in bitcoin, I wouldn't do it in another currency because for me it would be like guessing and in gfuturs trading you cannot enter by gambling and leaving everything to chance.

This shows the power of this community; this community is really caring and enlightening the traders who are already doing wrong things or getting misguided by greedy people or marketing agents with future trading kind of things. I am as well always against future trading still we like or not there would be at least one topic on every week on this board for whatever reason but finally people are getting tempted toward future trading along with their own reason.

I agree it is our basic responsibility to convey what is good for most common people like future trading kind of things are only suitable for less than 1% of people hence spreading awareness against it is good and needed one.

Better leave with future trading and comeback with spot trading actually for the beginner, its not good financial advice when trying with future trading although on the first time joining got much profit. I have several bad experienced with future trading and greedy can't stopped until all my fund get liquidation and loss from future trading.

Spot trading have alternative with holding for long term when altcoin or bitcoin investment price going drop, but you can't hold for long term with future trading actually your margin fund small and close with liquidation moment. Before losing much fund in future trading and spot trading more safety when facing floating moment.

It is good to educate us more on this point about futures trading which is a major point between spot and itself and this is what was said that you can't hodl in futures. Hodling in futures is waste of funds because you will be charged on a running trade that lasted to the next day like it is called swap. This happens on a pair that your allowed you stay over the day. Therefore, if you continue to hodl in futures, the swap will continue to increase as long as long you didn't stop the trade or exit the trade. So at the end if you calculate how much funds thet have gone into the running trade in the form of swap, you will understand it is a waste of time.

If you are a beginner then yes, you better equipped yourself first with knowledge so that you can reduce your risks of losing. The gap between futures and spot trading is kinda far but it was spot trading is the one who is easier so every beginner should start here and do only futures when they get a grasp with it. Trading is done actively so hodling can be a silly idea on here.

If someone is willing to HODL then they better to do long-term investing instead. What is good about it, is that it's also easier than that the two (spot and futures). A little knowledge is only needed for one to begin here. It would be better if any beginner can start here before doing any types of trade.

All types of trading are risky if done without knowledge, that is the main point.
Beginners are expected to more actively learn the mechanics of trading instead of directly placing their money in a particular type of trade. Spot trading is much safer for beginners while learning, but they need to have good strategy so as not to fall into the pump and dump trap. This means they also have to know how to analyze and identify potential assets before placing money.

I would not recommend any newbie to risk his luck in futures trading without good knowledge, it will just kill him faster.

This is an insane way of trading. DCA first of all is never a trading technique, in trading one should do laddering of its positions instead of doing a DCA. This means you have to increase your position with the trade moving towards you and not against you. In trading, your capital is your biggest asset and everything depends on liquidity that is why stop losses are important, you cannot hold onto a losing trade because you are not only losing this trade but also other potential trades. DCA is used more in longer-term trades or positional trading where you don't rely on liquidity. Where you just want to set aside the amount in a currency you have already done analysis with.

Yes, trading with DCA in futures is definitely not making sense. With the same capital, with strong technical analysis, they could have made at least 10x more profits within the same time frame. People are simply ignoring then value of time invested along with capital. Such people are sticking with futures trading for no reason as in my opinion, they are all only suitable for long term holding and not even for spot trading.

If you are ready to DCA then holding is the best option for you. In futures trading, you need to pay excess fees for availing leverages on day to day basis. Holding with DCA plans along with those leverage fees might have got at least 2x more profits give that bitcoin is in bullish mode right now.

Ah, the use of DCA in futuress trading can be a bit of a sticky wicket, dontcha think? I mean, there are certainly more profitable strategies out there, so it's not exactly the bee's knees. A tradin plan, on the other hand, that's backed by some solid technical analysis, well, now we're talkin turkey! It can make all the difference, turnin a paltry profit into somethin that'll knock your socks of in no time. Time, of course, is money, and that's especially true in the wild west that is the crypto market. You gotta use it wisely, old sport! Now, futures tradin is quite the tool for the seasoned vet, but it's not exactly a walk in the park, is it? It takes knowledge, discipline, and risk management skills, and even then, it's not for everyone. As a crypto enthusiast myself, I can't stress enough the importance of understandin the risks involved in futuress trading. I mean, jumpin into it willy-nilly is like throwin caution to the wind, and that's just not cricket. One lesson I've learned is that a clear tradin plan, complete with entry and exit points, is an absolute must. And, as a word of encouragment, I suggest that traders find the strategy that best fits their investment goals, risk tolerance, and overall personality.