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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: GazetaBitcoin on January 11, 2023, 05:49:57 PM



Title: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: GazetaBitcoin on January 11, 2023, 05:49:57 PM
All revolutions imply bloodsheds. This is why revolution flags are always red.

Since Spartacus' rebellion (71 - 71 BC) to American Revolution (1765 – 1783); from French Revolution (1789 – 1799) to Hungarian Revolution from Budapest (1956); from Prague (1968) to Carnation Revolution from Portugal (1974); from Mexican Revolution led by Emiliano Zapata Salazar (1910 - 1920) to Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution launched by Mao Zedong (1966) to Nicaraguan Revolution ('60 and '70) and to Romanian Revolution from 1989. And the list may continue. All revolutions had their bloodbaths. Their leaders fought for their purposes, but none ever succeeded a bloodless revolution.

Until Satoshi Nakamoto.

Satoshi never intended to be a revolution leader, yet his creation -- Bitcoin -- revolutionized the entire world. It took the power from the hands of elites and gave it back to people. People started being able to control  their own money without being coerced to involve third parties. Bitcoin eliminated intermediaries and rendered governs and banks as irrelevant for individuals relying on Bitcoin. It disrupted the traditional finances and implemented a new paradigm: "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash which would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution". Bitcoin is the first bloodless revolution from history.

Nobody had to die for Bitcoin to prevail. Bitcoin revolution implied no violence, no massacres, no any other horrendous aspects which happen during revolutions. It helped those which were starving and the poor to have a chance to live and fight for their lives. It helped connecting people from all over the world. And no political leader can shut Bitcoin down. Revolution continues for more than 10 years now. And, day by day, it earns more adepts.

Many times I asked myself how Bitcoin managed to run this bloodless revolution. And sometimes I am thinking that, somehow, Bitcoin revolution followed the rules Of Saul Alinsky (https://www.citizenshandbook.org/rules.html). Alinsky was an American activist and, among others, he wrote the rules of a successful revolution. As it can be easily noticed, none of his rules imply any violence.

Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have. -- Since its apparition, Bitcoin was feared by governs, banks and other elites. They felt that they may lose the extraordinary power they had until then and started seeing Bitcoin as a giant enemy, although Bitcoin was just in its first days.

Rule 2: Whenever possible, go outside the experience of an opponent. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat and ways he does not know how to fight against. -- Elites never feared they may lose their power over citizen. After all, people are oppressed by governs and banks for thousands of years. Yet when Bitcoin arrived, together with its new paradigm of peer-to-peer financial deals, combined also with a pseudonymity which can be dramatically improved through tumblers and coin joins, all oppressors started to be confused. Next thing they felt was fear. They did not know how to fight against Bitcoin. And, for a decade now, all their attempts to shut it down failed.

Rule 3: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. -- Bitcoin fought against elites with their own powers. As elites simply stripped people for ages of their financial control, so did Bitcoin, which just gave people back the power of their own finances.

Rule 4: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It's hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage. -- Governs always wanted to know how much money each citizen has and also how the regular individual spends the money. Satoshi built Bitcoin in a fashion which ridicules State's greed for knowing all financial transactions made by its citizen: all Bitcoin transactions can be seen on blockchain, which is public; yet, the addresses of the sender and of the recipient are just some strings of alphanumeric characters, which give out no names, no surnames, no personal information (assuming that users did not give their personal information to third parties, such as centralized exchanges). Satoshi's invention taunted the State and it looks like it's saying: "Do you want to know how much money I have? Here, you can see that. Do you want to see all my transactions? You can see that too. I made them public, in your face. But what you don't know is who I am".

Rule 5: A tactic that drags on for too long becomes a drag. Commitment may become ritualistic as people turn to other issues. -- Therefore changes are needed, even slight ones. Bitcoin passed through changes during last decade. From SegWit to bech32 and from Taproot to various BIPs, Bitcoin changed and evolved during time.

Rule 6: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all events of the period for your purpose. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your advantage." -- Since Bitcoin appeared governs and banks started feeling a pressure which kept constantly growing. In several periods of financial difficulties people used Bitcoin. And the more such terrible events occurred, the more people embraced Bitcoin, which led to a pressure even greater on governs' shoulders, realizing that the power of control is slipping from their hands and people can organize themselves alone, without the intervention of State, banks and other third parties.

Rule 7: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. -- Bitcoin chose its targets even before it was born: the existing financial system, the middlemen, the governs and the banks. Its intentions were shown, in a subtle way, even from its Genesis block, which contained the following message: "Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks".

We may have many years to live and so will our children and grandchildren. Yet I don't know if we'll ever see another bloodless revolution in the future...

Topic is self-moderated for avoiding spam.




Translations (in chronological order):

  • Română: Bitcoin – o revoluție fără vărsare de sânge (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=), translation by GazetaBitcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1285797)
  • German: Bitcoin - eine unblutige Revolution (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5444740), translation by AHOYBRAUSE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3442536)
  • Polish: Bitcoin - bezkrwawa rewolucja (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5445302), translation by cygan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=27470)
  • Filipino: Bitcoin - Ang Mapayapang Rebolusyon (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5447900), translation by Asuspawer09 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1136961)
  • Bengali: বিটকয়েন - একটি রক্তহীন বিপ্লব (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.msg62063450#msg62063450), translation by Learn Bitcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3506304)
  • Pidgin: Bitcoin - Revolution wey de bloodless (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5399898.msg62105144#msg62105144), translation by Nheer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3534475)
  • French: Bitcoin - une révolution sans effusion de sang (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458720), translation by iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3373825)
  • Urdu: بٹ کوائن کا ایک بے خون انقلاب (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg62748340#msg62748340), translation by CryptoYar (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2746686)
  • Russian: Биткoйн – бecкpoвнaя peвoлюция (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474884), translation by FP91G (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2724574)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: NotATether on January 11, 2023, 07:50:19 PM
Actually, Bitcoin is not the first bloodless revolution. If you look a little back, there was the Indian revolution started by Ghandi more than 100 years ago.

And there's also the South African revolution by Nelson Mandela.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: hZti on January 11, 2023, 07:59:05 PM
I get your point and it is very positive for bitcoin. What I would still say is that bitcoin is more of a very advance evolution rather than a revolution in the real term. A revolution is usually a total reset and the start of something completely different. With bitcoin we have a slow evolution and maybe even bitcoin and fiat will be able to share the financial market together for much longer.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: Doan9269 on January 11, 2023, 08:11:11 PM
Many times I asked myself how Bitcoin managed to run this bloodless revolution

This is not complete yet until everyone across the nooks and crannies of the world adopted bitcoin and renders fiat vulnerable without being helped, and this is a time we are seeking for beyond this present dispensation whereby every centralized authorities will be shamed with humility, bitcoin does not beed to made it loud before achieving these since the creation and adoption went on as expected without any glitch despite the news around that it's a scam, bitcoin has executed all challenges with handling fiat from central authorities and we gor decentralized in an independent way home hich is total financial freedom without fighting a III world war or human massacre.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: DaNNy001 on January 11, 2023, 08:15:24 PM
I get your point and it is very positive for bitcoin. What I would still say is that bitcoin is more of a very advance evolution rather than a revolution in the real term. A revolution is usually a total reset and the start of something completely different. With bitcoin we have a slow evolution and maybe even bitcoin and fiat will be able to share the financial market together for much longer.
Yeah, i think calling it an evolution sounds proper because bitcoin is just part of the evolution process that the human race has been constantly going through and bitcoin has a great evolutionary change in the currency and financial sector. Before now we traded and paid for commodities through the trade by barter system, after that period evolution took place and the use of cowries came into use, then we evolved into the use of metal coins and the use of fiat came into play and currently now the evolution process is going on with the spread and acceptance of bitcoin currently taking over the financial system. So i believe in time coming the world would have evolved so much that bitcoin will probably be accepted and used by everyone and in every country world wide.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: Smartprofit on January 11, 2023, 08:35:13 PM
I get your point and it is very positive for bitcoin. What I would still say is that bitcoin is more of a very advance evolution rather than a revolution in the real term. A revolution is usually a total reset and the start of something completely different. With bitcoin we have a slow evolution and maybe even bitcoin and fiat will be able to share the financial market together for much longer.

Bitcoin is a completely new phenomenon in the history of mankind, so it can be seen as both a revolution and an evolution....

At the same time, everything we can say about Bitcoin will not be completely correct.  At best, we will be able to describe only part of this amazing phenomenon. 

In my opinion, Satoshi Nakamoto perceived himself as the Creator who creates a new entity that will exist in our world and change it.  He may have been influenced by Isaac Asimov's sci-fi novel Foundation when he created Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: mendace on January 11, 2023, 09:53:36 PM
The notion that the creation of Bitcoin constitutes a "bloodless revolution" is a matter of perspective and interpretation. While it is true that the development and spread of Bitcoin has not been accompanied by physical violence, it is important to underline that the effects of Bitcoin on the traditional financial system and on governments have been significant and have caused significant changes in the way financial systems work. , which is what many consider a revolution. Also, the fact that Bitcoin follows Saul Alinsky's rules may be a personal interpretation. While Alinsky's rules are about grassroots community organizing for power, while the creation of Bitcoin is a financial and technical invention that uses a decentralized and cryptographic system to enable peer-to-peer transactions without intermediaries. These are two different camps and ideologies.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: CryptoPanda on January 11, 2023, 09:59:27 PM
I admire the passion of OP, bitcoin is truly a revolutionary concept. Satoshi created something that completely disrupts the system. I think bitcoin can only be a true revolution when bitcoiners start to see it as one, we seem to have forgot or never knew bitcoin is about power shift. It’s interesting that the media never portrays bitcoin in that light, bitcoin is always discussed investment-wise. So newbies don’t even bother about reading the white paper, they read the charts and place a buy order. That’s why we have a lot of bitcoiners who don’t even see bitcoin past being a money game. In a real sense I believe Satoshi was a libertarian and that bitcoin isn’t just a cryptocurrency. Governments and banks are afraid of it, they aren’t afraid of altcoins. Nope bitcoin is the problem because it is disruptive to their system. In LeGaulois words “Bitcoiners kill Bitcoin, and governments are happy”


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: hatshepsut93 on January 11, 2023, 10:11:41 PM
Revolution is

Quote from: wikipedia
a fundamental and relatively sudden change in political power and political organization which occurs when the population revolts against the government, typically due to perceived oppression (political, social, economic) or political incompetence

If a tiny percentage of the population uses Bitcoin, and not as a replacement for fiat, but as a tool to get rich quick, that's not a change of political power. If Bitcoin was adopted by at least some 20-30% of people, and those people used only Bitcoin and never fiat, you could talk about a revolution. Until that happens, Bitcoin is just a rarely used alternative.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: franky1 on January 11, 2023, 11:17:36 PM
revolting(rebel) against a government is when you find a government revolting(rotten)

.. if trump was not enough to cause a massive power vacuum of people wanting to run off and self govern. i dont think there will be a revolution any time soon

politics continues. in any governed system. give just enough to appease the masses but not enough to please the masses, to remind the masses whos in power

if people got exactly what they wanted they wouldnt need anyone/thing else


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: stompix on January 11, 2023, 11:23:13 PM
All revolutions imply bloodsheds.  This is why revolution flags are always red.
And the list may continue. All revolutions had their bloodbaths.

Not really, that's why there are velvet revolutions, and since you've mentioned it, Romania was the only one that had a violent revolution at the fall of the Warsaw pact! Don't know why you hated that guy that much compared to our own commies but you're the only ones that executed somebody then and that had the army firing on its own fellow countrymen.

Quote
Satoshi never intended to be a revolution leader, yet his creation -- Bitcoin -- revolutionized the entire world. It took the power from the hands of elites and gave it back to people.

And where did this happen?
In what country has the elite lost control of the people that use bitcoin? Let's be real!

As the others said, appreciate the enthusiasm but it is way too early to claim a revolution or the outcome of it, you're at least one decade too early on declaring the success of something that has barely taken root, not even close to sprouting!

In LeGaulois words “Bitcoiners kill Bitcoin, and governments are happy”

Same as revolutions and revolutionaries, usually the ones that revolt are the same that butcher the entire revolution and turn the country into a deeper shithole!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: BlackBoss_ on January 12, 2023, 01:15:51 AM
It does not need a war to make a revolution for accounting and technology, it's bloodless.

The bullish case for Bitcoin (https://vijayboyapati.medium.com/the-bullish-case-for-bitcoin-6ecc8bdecc1). It's available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Bullish-Case-Bitcoin-Vijay-Boyapati/dp/1737204118).

It makes a third biggest evolution for Accounting with decentralized bookkeeping by its public ledger. From single bookkeeping, double bookkeeping to Bitcoin public ledger, it takes centuries and we are using a most modern accounting tool. Data on Bitcoin blockchain and its public ledger can not be erased or edited. Everyone can become a part of Bitcoin network by running a node and become one of its bookkeepers, very decentralized. We can access its public ledger data anytime and no need to ask permission from any entity.

History of accounting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_accounting)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: Darker45 on January 12, 2023, 01:56:08 AM
Actually, Bitcoin is not the first bloodless revolution. If you look a little back, there was the Indian revolution started by Ghandi more than 100 years ago.

And there's also the South African revolution by Nelson Mandela.

Yeah, who could forget Gandhi's Ahimsa? Aside from Gandhi and Mandela's peaceful revolutions, there was also the People Power Revolution in the Philippines, the Peaceful Revolution in Germany, and many others. But these are in the socio-political context.

Satoshi's revolution should generally be bloodless because it is a technological revolution. Satoshi or any of his/her/their supporters won't have to take up arms in order to pursue change. But I think this isn't the first time either. Electricity itself was part of the larger industrial revolution in the 18th century onwards.

And then there were also several revolutions that are in the context of science. Scientific revolutions were also bloodless.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: BenCodie on January 12, 2023, 03:43:40 AM
Just coming to say that I am loving reading your posts. So on point 8)

Actually, Bitcoin is not the first bloodless revolution. If you look a little back, there was the Indian revolution started by Ghandi more than 100 years ago.

And there's also the South African revolution by Nelson Mandela.

These revolutions were not bloodless in the grand scheme of things ???  ???
Heck, Ghandi himself was assassinated.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: pooya87 on January 12, 2023, 06:06:22 AM
Interesting view but lets not forget that Bitcoin "revolution" is just getting started. Other revolutions also didn't start with a bloodshed although they may have ended in one. Bitcoin is at the very first step of a very long route.
Also lets not forget that because Bitcoin's "revolution" is mainly taking place in the digital world, the bloodshed is also taking place in the virtual world. All the hacks, the market manipulation, state/bankster sponsored FUD, etc. are all signs of an ongoing "war".

Alinsky was an American activists and, among others, he wrote the rules of a successful revolution
Don't you mean rules for radicals?

Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have.
I have a feeling that this rule is written on top of all US military bases #illusion ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: Kakmakr on January 12, 2023, 06:58:22 AM
Actually, Bitcoin is not the first bloodless revolution. If you look a little back, there was the Indian revolution started by Ghandi more than 100 years ago.

And there's also the South African revolution by Nelson Mandela.

The South African revolution was not without any bloodshed at all. Many black people killed other black people who were seen as government collaborators, informers and black policemen. The executioners would force a car tyre over the head and around the arms of the suspect, drench it in petrol, and set it alight. (Also called, Necklacing)

During the unrest periods, many people were shot and killed and lots of blood were shed during those times. Nelson Mandela were involved in the bombing of many power plants and strategic installations.

I am just glad that Satoshi Nakamoto found a way to revolt against the governments and Banks, without people being killed or hurt. (Even though nobody knows what happened to Satoshi)  ::)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: franky1 on January 12, 2023, 07:27:09 AM
MODERN revolutions/political change does not happen the way media portrays them

ghandi
suffragettes

did you know that it was not the sole act of fasting.. nor woman chained to a fence. that changed marked events of history
nor is it street protests either
nor riots
nor assassinating presidents
nor arson
not chaos

what actually happens is outside of whats revealed in modern media.. is 2 things. called petitioning and lobbying

yep while media tells people to walk the streets and protest. they should instead be telling people to sign petitions to get their representatives to act. whereby legally a petition of certain threshold cannot be ignored..
unlike protests and fasting and other crap stuff media tell people to do

yes in some cases the protesting and fasting then makes those in the know get emotionally involved to want to petition/lobby.. but its the petition/lobby part thats crucial. not the stuff media show that happens on the streets


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: DooMAD on January 12, 2023, 08:30:15 AM
what actually happens is outside of whats revealed in modern media.. is 2 things. called petitioning and lobbying

yep while media tells people to walk the streets and protest. they should instead be telling people to sign petitions to get their representatives to act. whereby legally a petition of certain threshold cannot be ignored..
unlike protests and fasting and other crap stuff media tell people to do

yes in some cases the protesting and fasting then makes those in the know get emotionally involved to want to petition/lobby.. but its the petition/lobby part thats crucial. not the stuff media show that happens on the streets

Try starting a petition in North Korea and see how far you get.   ::)

Only in certain settings are petitions an effective form of change.  Don't conflate your own country with how things may work elsewhere. 


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: franky1 on January 12, 2023, 10:14:08 AM
so you pick the one joker card to pretend the whole deck are not playing cards

but hey the moon has seen man stand on it lets do a doomad and say because the moon didnt use petitions which man can stand by... so that must mean earth, where man also stands must have no peaceful atmosphere or space to breathe, nor able to walk freely without a tether

you must realise in the number of years of living, you have had ample chance in life to learn things. like history

even in india's british empire of a century ago. they used petitions.
even in the civil war days of america. it was not throwing tea off a boat. it was a petition that changed british rule

the womans suffragettes... again petitions.. not chains


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: NeuroticFish on January 12, 2023, 10:52:51 AM
industrial revolution

This is what I was also thinking. OP got a bit carried away, I'd say, and missed some points. Calling something to be first in something it's always risky and it needs (at least) double checked.

Romania was the only one that had a violent revolution at the fall of the Warsaw pact! Don't know why you hated that guy that much compared to our own commies but you're the only ones that executed somebody then and that had the army firing on its own fellow countrymen.

That was manipulation and cover up.
That guy was shot before he understood what's happening to him and before he could start telling that we're changing one commie for other commie(s).
And the shooting and blood bath was even more manipulation, together with the stupidity and the incompetence we also see these days at military forces in another ongoing war.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: DooMAD on January 12, 2023, 01:24:04 PM
so you pick the one joker card to pretend the whole deck are not playing cards

No, it's fine.  We all have to accept franky1 has declared the sole acceptable truth.  Only petitions matter and there has never been any other legitimate form of political change in the history of humankind.  World War II was definitely resolved by members of the public signing their names on a bit of paper.  All other ideas are invalid.  Anyone with differing thoughts needs to "dO mOrE rEsEaRcH" until they recognise franky1's interpretation is the only correct one.   ::)


//EDIT:  In other news, franky1 has redefined "members of the public" to mean "the highest ranking military officer" and the definition of a "petition" will be broadened to now include "terms of surrender".  All dictionaries and thesauri will be updated accordingly.  So sayeth franky1.



Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: GazetaBitcoin on January 12, 2023, 03:22:38 PM
Actually, Bitcoin is not the first bloodless revolution. If you look a little back, there was the Indian revolution started by Ghandi more than 100 years ago.

And there's also the South African revolution by Nelson Mandela.

All revolutions imply bloodsheds.  This is why revolution flags are always red.
And the list may continue. All revolutions had their bloodbaths.
Not really, that's why there are velvet revolutions, and since you've mentioned it, Romania was the only one that had a violent revolution at the fall of the Warsaw pact!

These posts answer best to your statements:

The South African revolution was not without any bloodshed at all. Many black people killed other black people who were seen as government collaborators, informers and black policemen. The executioners would force a car tyre over the head and around the arms of the suspect, drench it in petrol, and set it alight. (Also called, Necklacing)

During the unrest periods, many people were shot and killed and lots of blood were shed during those times. Nelson Mandela were involved in the bombing of many power plants and strategic installations.

These revolutions were not bloodless in the grand scheme of things ???  ???
Heck, Ghandi himself was assassinated.

And, if those replies were not convincing yet, maybe this image clear things better:

https://i.postimg.cc/sghNzhB7/vW6w3Py.png



Don't know why you hated that guy that much compared to our own commies but you're the only ones that executed somebody then and that had the army firing on its own fellow countrymen.

Your answer can be found, in part, in this post of mine (obviously, this is only a small part of the horrors we had to live in Ceausescu era):

I lived, in part, what you wrote above. Although I was very young when Ceausescu was taken down I still remember many things which occurred during his regime. It is difficult to explain in words. Just a small example, all food was rationalized. And, depending of the number of the family members, you were allowed to buy only a (small) quantity of milk, flour, corn flour, oil, sugar or meat each month. Now excepting the fact that what you were allowed to was a very small amount, you also had to do extreme efforts for obtaining the aliments. For example, if a grocery store was opening at 7am, you had to go there since 1-2am to make sure you get a good spot in the queue, thus at 7am when the store would open you would have the chance to obtain your milk or oil or what you needed. If you joined the queue at 6am you had no chance to buy anything as until your place would come to enter the store everything was finished already. During the nights people used to make huge queues at each such store, sometimes even more than 100 people forming a queue...

Meat was even scarcer than anything. And I am not talking about fish, beef or some delicacy. People mostly had the right to buy chicken and pork meat and the chickens from the stores were always so small that they looked like they starved a month before being brought to the stores.

Annually, each citizen was entitled to 60-70 kg of meat and meat derivatives, 8-10 kg of fish and fish derivatives, 210-230 liters of milk or milk derivatives, 260-280 eggs, 16 kg of fats (oil, butter etc.), 170-180 kg of vegetables, 70-90 kg of potatoes, 65-95 kg of fruits, 22-26 kg of sugar. All products were stamped on a paper card or on a sort of register book, for making sure the citizen would not buy more than he was entitled to. The shopping could be made only once per month and only at the grocery shop from the neighborhood. In 1984 the portions were reduced even more: 39 kg of meat, 78 liters of milk, 166 kg of vegetables. The oil and the sugar could be bought also just once per month and only 1 kg of each of them.

Those caught with shenanigans regarding food (buying more, buying from illegal sources etc.) could face 6month - 5 years of jail.

https://i.postimg.cc/JzZPvCgQ/EEXItvb.jpg
Register for buying bread in Ceausescu era

https://i.postimg.cc/BvNcfSC2/PRGvXez.jpg
Register for buying sugar in Ceausescu era

https://i.ibb.co/RSxFpw9/oFiJHff.jpg
Register for buying cloths (yes, even cloths were rationalized) in Ceausescu era

https://i.ibb.co/dBr6f8m/4pNzZLv.png
The huge monthly queues at grocery shop in Ceausescu era (PIINE means BREAD and ALIMENTARA means GROCERY SHOP)

Quote
Satoshi never intended to be a revolution leader, yet his creation -- Bitcoin -- revolutionized the entire world. It took the power from the hands of elites and gave it back to people.
And where did this happen?

Everywhere.

In what country has the elite lost control of the people that use bitcoin? Let's be real!

In all countries. Whenever a bitcoiner makes a new anonymous, peer-to-peer transaction with someone else, that's one more transaction which is not controlled by the State. Whenever a bitcoiner attempts to press "Send" from his wallet there is nobody in the entire world who can stop him.

As the others said, appreciate the enthusiasm but it is way too early to claim a revolution or the outcome of it, you're at least one decade too early on declaring the success of something that has barely taken root, not even close to sprouting!

And when you think that, maybe, same words were said about this guy too...

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.



I admire the passion of OP, bitcoin is truly a revolutionary concept.

Just coming to say that I am loving reading your posts. So on point 8)

Thank you. If you want to read more similar posts of mine, you can find them at the bottom of this topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5255623.0).



Governments and banks are afraid of it, they aren’t afraid of altcoins. Nope bitcoin is the problem because it is disruptive to their system.

Indeed. Why else FBI contacted Gavin Andresen and tried to find who Satoshi is, while all other altcoin creators appear everywhere with their full names and no secret agency comes after them?



Interesting view but lets not forget that Bitcoin "revolution" is just getting started. [...] Also lets not forget that because Bitcoin's "revolution" is mainly taking place in the digital world, the bloodshed is also taking place in the virtual world.

True. Yet, this does not diminish the fact that Bitcoin managed to run a revolution without implying physical violence, does it? :)

Don't you mean rules for radicals?

Big thumb up for recognizing those rules. It's a sign that you are a well educate person and I am congratulating you for that. Nowadays so few people read books, so few keep educating themselves by constantly reading...



I get your point and it is very positive for bitcoin. What I would still say is that bitcoin is more of a very advance evolution rather than a revolution in the real term. A revolution is usually a total reset and the start of something completely different.

Does Bitcoin look like anything which happened before? :)



industrial revolution
This is what I was also thinking. OP got a bit carried away

Let's not get too much into semantics. I am sure that all understood the message of this thread. Looking for small mistakes is typically human, yet this is not the point -- debunking sentence by sentence. I could also argue and say the even during Industrial Revolution there were victims -- but it would be pointless... The important part is what Satoshi achieved and where Bitcoin led us in the past decade...


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: buwaytress on January 12, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Let's not get too much into semantics. I am sure that all understood the message of this thread. Looking for small mistakes is typically human, yet this is not the point -- debunking sentence by sentence. I could also argue and say the even during Industrial Revolution there were victims -- but it would be pointless... The important part is what Satoshi achieved and where Bitcoin led us in the past decade...

Agreed. I think bloodless is plain and simple: without causing directly the death of other through violence.

If we want to argue, every single development, progress, passage of time has victims either through intended or unforeseen circumstance. The way the world is so connected now, I fear every single item I buy has a chain of victims behind it, and ahead of it.

Bitcoin has always forged a path that doesn't require force.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: stompix on January 12, 2023, 04:20:32 PM
And, if those replies were not convincing yet, maybe this image clear things better:
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob75deeb8a89ddc18b.png

Bruh, don't do this! Just as I asked you about Romania instead of googling don't throw Wikipedia back at me without double-checking:

Quote
The event marked the 50th anniversary of a violently suppressed demonstration against the Nazi storming of Prague University in 1939 where 1,200 students were arrested and 9 killed (see Origin of International Students' Day).
~
The date commemorates the anniversary of the 1939 Nazi storming of the University of Prague after demonstrations against the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the killings of Jan Opletal and worker Václav Sedláček. The Nazis rounded up the students, murdered nine student leaders and sent over 1,200 students to concentration camps, mainly Sachsenhausen.

You quoted the deaths from 1939, there were no deaths in 1989, only hoaxes, the most famous being Martin Šmíd (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_%C5%A0m%C3%ADd)

In all countries. Whenever a bitcoiner makes a new anonymous, peer-to-peer transaction with someone else, that's one more transaction which is not controlled by the State. Whenever a bitcoiner attempts to press "Send" from his wallet there is nobody in the entire world who can stop him.

And that means losing control?
So they lost control a hundred years ago when people were dealing with cash, nobody can stop me from handing someone in a back alley a pack of banknotes and getting something in return. If you think that the police would follow me and prevent this, well, they can do with Bitcoin too, remember what happened to Ulbricht? Or to Burtw?
Let's be serious, do you think that the elites have lost power in your own country, in Romania for example? I've got my info only from the news but it doesn't seem like that one bit, and as much as I can tell you from Slovakia to Poland and the Czech Republic it ain't happening here either!

I get what you desire but you somehow think we already have this, and no, you're daydreaming at this point, nowhere close!
Are they still playing with interest rates, are they still influencing inflation, are they still deciding deficits and budgets, are they still the ones deciding taxes on crypto, are they still the ones that can send you to prison or hand you a fine for not paying them? If yes, then they are still in control!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: 1miau on January 13, 2023, 12:59:13 AM
When I read your articles, I'm always reminded of Alex Gladstein writing similar articles.  :D
Similar like you, he's focussing on how Bitcoin can help normal people in very different cases, where poverty, a corrupt leadership, lack of democracy or military surpression is causing these problems.

One of Gladsteins biggest hits is his article "Fighting Monetary Colonialism With Open-Source Code" (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/bitcoin-a-currency-of-decolonization) (archived (https://archive.fo/FYdPX)) where he reveals an interesting fact: France still uses monetary colonialism to exploit 15 African nations. It sounds a bit crazy but it's true. Monetary decisions for 15 African Nations are still made in France because last century, these countries have been colonies of France. In these 15 African countries, a currency called CFA franc is official currency. It was / is pegged to Franc / later Euro but peg can be changed like in 1994, when CFA Franc was devalued by 50%. 
In addition, important decisions are made by France. 

Why is it beneficial for France? Getting cheaper imports!

CFA Franc is a relict from the last decade.
And here, Bitcoin can be useful as Alex Gladstein describes.  :)

Or did you know that France is still controlling monetary decisions of 15 African nations?  :D



So, we can see: Bitcoin is a great tool for people living under authoritarian regimes. It might be hard for us to imagine how it is to live under an authoritarian regime or a very poor country and for those people, Bitcoin can make a big difference. Bitcoin can really help people is such countries to WIN a bloodless revolution and improve their lives massively.  :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: GazetaBitcoin on January 13, 2023, 05:50:40 PM
don't throw Wikipedia back at me without double-checking [...]

You quoted the deaths from 1939, there were no deaths in 1989, only hoaxes

I did not spend too much time to search for victims just to show you... I am sure that, if I dug more on this search I could had find some articles presenting those victims. I won't do it though, as it's pointless.

And that means losing control?

Yes, this is what it means. Each time you press "Send" on your Bitcoin wallet, that is another transaction uncontrolled by the State and by anyone else excepting you.

I get what you desire but you somehow think we already have this, and no, you're daydreaming at this point, nowhere close!

I may be, yet same was also the one who dreamed in 2011 that BTC's price will reach hundreds then thousands (of dollars) and his word became true in the future. There is nothing to stop us dreaming and wishing the best for Bitcoin.

Are they still playing with interest rates, are they still influencing inflation, are they still deciding deficits and budgets, are they still the ones deciding taxes on crypto, are they still the ones that can send you to prison or hand you a fine for not paying them? If yes, then they are still in control!

Perhaps you did not understand about what "control" I was talking about. Yes, the State still controls the country, through its long arms, such as State agencies; through taxes; through the laws it issues and so on. But what it can't control anymore is its citizen when they use Bitcoin. When they make transactions without the knowledge of the State. When the gardener sells his cucumbers to his neighbor and the neighbor pays with BTC and nobody in the world can stop him from pressing "Send" from his wallet. People control their (crypto) finances now. If banks decide to freeze their accounts, they can always use Bitcoin to solve their financial problems. They control their wallets and what's inside them is 100% theirs and there is no trusted third party needed to allow them to use their money as they please.



When I read your articles, I'm always reminded of Alex Gladstein writing similar articles.  :D

I have to admit, I am not familiar with the subject. Thank you for sharing this with me and also thank you for associating my writing style with Alex Gladstein's!

Or did you know that France is still controlling monetary decisions of 15 African nations?  :D

I was not aware about this (very high) number either. I know that France, Spain, Holland and other countries still exert some power on some small countries, which were their colonies a long while ago, but I did not know that France has that much power Oo



So, we can see: Bitcoin is a great tool for people living under authoritarian regimes. It might be hard for us to imagine how it is to live under an authoritarian regime or a very poor country and for those people, Bitcoin can make a big difference. Bitcoin can really help people is such countries to WIN a bloodless revolution and improve their lives massively.  :)

This is true. In multiple occasions, people which were facing big struggles in their countries turned to Bitcoin. It happened in Greece, in 2013, if I'm not mistaken, when banks did not allow people to cash out their money. It happened also in Catalonia, in their attempt to become independent from Spain. And Amir Taaki, the famous Bitcoin developer and creator of (among others) Libbitcoin, DarkWallet, DarkMarket and OpenBazaar brought Bitcoin to people of Rojava (https://www.wired.com/2017/03/anarchist-bitcoin-coder-found-fighting-isis-syria/) for helping them during their own revolution...


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: franky1 on January 13, 2023, 06:17:07 PM
so you pick the one joker card to pretend the whole deck are not playing cards

No, it's fine.  We all have to accept franky1 has declared the sole acceptable truth.  Only petitions matter and there has never been any other legitimate form of political change in the history of humankind.  World War II was definitely resolved by members of the public signing their names on a bit of paper.  All other ideas are invalid.  Anyone with differing thoughts needs to "dO mOrE rEsEaRcH" until they recognise franky1's interpretation is the only correct one.   ::)
if you are dreaming that the german leaders surrender(resolving the war) looked like they were on their knees pleading for their life waving their white underwear on a stick....while having guns pointed at them..  you would be wrong

if you think the war ended by citizens rioting and "taking the capital" you are wrong
if you think the war ended by citizens walking the streets protesting. you are wrong

this is what the german surrender actually looked like

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Field_Marshall_Keitel_signs_German_surrender_terms_in_Berlin_8_May_1945_-_Restoration.jpg/780px-Field_Marshall_Keitel_signs_German_surrender_terms_in_Berlin_8_May_1945_-_Restoration.jpg

its the german leader(highest ranking officer) signing a piece of paper

when you realise that riots and wars are not "the revolution".. but instead the chaos/ fear/ stress between revolutions..
you then look to how governments change outside of the stuff on the streets.
changing a government is about paper. signing people into power and signing out of power. legislation works by paper

the turmoil inbetween is just the resentment and the resurgence inbetween


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: trendcoin on January 13, 2023, 10:06:59 PM
Another example: Adam Smith started the industrial revolution when he wrote The Wealth of Nations. :) There is no doubt that bloodless revolutions (democratic revolutions) are not few in number and Bitcoin is one of those revolutions... Satoshi was indeed a very intelligent person. He has made a great contribution to this world and this contribution will not be forgotten forever because he planted an idea in our minds, and someone who has this idea cannot easily give up on it. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: 1miau on January 14, 2023, 08:08:41 PM
In multiple occasions, people which were facing big struggles in their countries turned to Bitcoin. It happened in Greece, in 2013
You are very right here! It happened in Greece and because it happened, our amazing contributor Andreas Antonopoulos got involved into Bitcoin. So far, Antonopoulos has made big educational contributions like his famous book "Mastering Bitcoin".
I've saved a quote from him (but translated it into German and don't know where to find his original one, so here's just a somehow accurate translation, would be great if someone can find the original quote. I don't find it anymore.  :'().
It was similar to the text below:

Quote
"If you go to an ATM today, use your card and withdraw your money, it is ultimately up to the bank whether you get the money or not. One day – as people in Cyprus, Greece, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil and many more countries have discovered in recent decades and even centuries – one day you go to your bank and the bank will not give you the money because it can't pay you. In such a situation, you are dependent on the bank, which has already happened to many millions of people. Bitcoin is fundamentally different, because in Bitcoin you owe nothing to anyone and nobody owes you anything. Bitcoin is not based on debt. Bitcoin is based on the ownership of coins owned by you. It's absolute ownership."

It's a very good quote pointing out his issue he had in Greece.  :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: serjent05 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:26 PM
This reminds me of Mahatma Gandhi, an Indian Hero that implemented a non-violent revolution.  As far as I know, he leads the Indian independence movement but forbids retaliation and just encourages their members to disobedience and non-cooperation.  Just like how Bitcoin is performing, it disrupts the financial system by not allowing intermediaries in every transaction created and its decentralized nature does not give any authority to financial institutions.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: Yatsan on January 15, 2023, 02:02:09 PM
This reminds me of Mahatma Gandhi, an Indian Hero that implemented a non-violent revolution.  As far as I know, he leads the Indian independence movement but forbids retaliation and just encourages their members to disobedience and non-cooperation.  Just like how Bitcoin is performing, it disrupts the financial system by not allowing intermediaries in every transaction created and its decentralized nature does not give any authority to financial institutions.
Best example so far, IMO. The revolution this industry is making is somehow vigilant. Taxation is a pain in our wallets given that there are countries wherein they are having higher percentage but  are still under development compared to developed countries having smaller tax percentage. What's bad with it? Corruption. It is just fine for transactions to be fined, for me, as long as money would go to the right path, but unfortunately it is not. Despite of the advantages of this technology over fiat, it is quite unfortunate to say that people across countries are still not ready for adoption. Risks would remain concerning market price volatility but as its progress continues, I believe someday, this technology would be more appreciated.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: kryptqnick on January 15, 2023, 03:35:14 PM
I agree with others that it's a pretty strong statement that it's the first bloodless revolution, as sometimes major change does happen without blood, but Bitcoin certainly is one of the few. It didn't fully change the world, as the global economy still almost entirely works within the old system, but Bitcoin did show that something different is possible and allowed people to see for themselves. One could argue, though, that there was no bloodshed precisely because the banks, 'the elites' are still largely in control. Or, that political and economic revolutions shouldn't be compared. Changing a political regime is a direct threat to those in power, but changing the economic settings is something that some can adopt (and stay in power) or reject (but still stay in power). I don't think there was a bloodshed for turning from gold to banknotes, or from gold standard to fiat as we currently know it, yet these changes were important for their times and contexts.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: AverageGlabella on January 15, 2023, 03:54:44 PM
Agreed. I think bloodless is plain and simple: without causing directly the death of other through violence.

If we want to argue, every single development, progress, passage of time has victims either through intended or unforeseen circumstance. The way the world is so connected now, I fear every single item I buy has a chain of victims behind it, and ahead of it.

Bitcoin has always forged a path that doesn't require force.
Although some people can be forceful in their beliefs of Bitcoin. This is true for Bitcoin maximalists which can become defensive when btc is criticized even when there is a reason for the criticism. The more countries that adopt btc as legal tender could be contributing to this problem but also could cause poverty for anyone that does not understand btc and know how to use it.

If you buy something with bitcoin that was created by child labor in China technically btc has enabled you to do that. I am not saying you would know that this item was created by child labor and I am not saying that this is not the case with fiat but whatever you use will probably be perceived and argued immoral by someone even if it is crazy.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: Learn Bitcoin on April 09, 2023, 11:14:18 AM
Hi GazetaBitcoin,

I started translating this post for my locals as it seems an interesting topic.
I will post the link once I am done. I hope you will add it to the OP.

Cheers!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: GazetaBitcoin on April 09, 2023, 11:33:41 AM
Thank you for your interest. Please send me a preview before publishing the translation and wait for my reply afterwards.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: dansus021 on April 09, 2023, 11:55:31 AM
Well Another great article from Gazeta   ;).

Yes, I always thought bitcoin is a revolution because Bitcoin I learned a lot of things about the Financial system and how money works. and if we back in 2008 bitcoin was created because the global financial crisis that happen at the time. So I always think bitcoin is part of the financial revolution.


Anyway should I translate this too, my first translation somehow locked by moderator

 


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: Learn Bitcoin on April 09, 2023, 11:59:50 AM
Thank you for your interest. Please send me a preview before publishing the translation and wait for my reply afterwards.

Hi GazetaBitcoin.

I didn't see your reply. You didn't tag me, so I didn't get a notification.
So, I end up posting it. Right after seeing your post, I deleted the post from my local thread.
I sent you a preview in PM. Can you please check and let me know if it's okay?

Cheers!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - a bloodless revolution
Post by: GazetaBitcoin on April 09, 2023, 07:17:54 PM
Well Another great article from Gazeta   ;).

Thank you!

Anyway should I translate this too, my first translation somehow locked by moderator

I am sorry about that. Perhaps you can ask him why he locked your topic? Regarding the translation, please send me a preview after you finish it :)




I sent you a preview in PM. Can you please check and let me know if it's okay?

Yup, I already replied you.