Bitcoin Forum

Hello! Bitcoin is a big part of my life, in both qualitative and quantitative terms.

I have been struggling with identifying how I should organise my Bitcoin. I guess we are all familiar with organising our FIAT money in several bank accounts etc.

I currently have:

• First layer wallet: 10% - 15% of my BTC in my mobile hot wallet (I love BlueWallet)
• Second layer wallet: ~30% of my BTC in a hardware wallet that connects to the internet via USB
• Non-circulating BTC: ~60% of my BTC in a cold storage air gapped device

I use my second layer wallet when I need to fund my first layer wallet, which I use for payments. I plan to leave my non-circulating BTC to my children or perhaps I will use some of it once I am retired.

I have dual backups for my wallets, stored in different places.

I want your opinion on the following:
1. What do you think about my plan in general?
2. I currently have paper backups and I plan to change my backups from paper to metal, especially for my hardware wallets. Do you agree with that?
3. Would you want to share what you do and how you organise your Bitcoin? In fact, I might be able to get some ideas from clever people in here! So please, shoot me with your thoughts!

What is your air-gapped device's setup? Because mostly, hardware wallets are enough, and that definitely not everyone is capable of properly creating a proper air-gapped device.

Well I have my keys in Blockstream Jade and I only use it to sign transactions using QR codes. I basically do this: https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/11664909888537-How-do-I-use-Jade-QR-Scan-with-BlueWallet- (https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/11664909888537-How-do-I-use-Jade-QR-Scan-with-BlueWallet-)

Your plan is a good idea but what i will only like to adjust about the whole thing is the need to only maintain two portfolios to your bitcoin, having up to 3 wallets or means you adopt in storing your wallet could pose a little way for vulnerability because of the numbers in consideration so that you don't mix things up and easily make mistake others cab take advantage of, have either hardware wallet or use a bitcoincore client to run a full node and additionally use a centralized exchange with hot wallet to perform your exchange.


Good idea as well, it's a good recommendation to take and follow, back up your seeds in a more secured ways than just on an ordinary paper which can easily got damaged by water except if laminated, but the safety storage to keep it is another challenge, so the best is to go for the metallic sheet and got it encrypted


I make use of electrum wallet on an air gapped device and i ensure that i don't use my device for other internet browsing purpose than handling my bitcoin wallet.

Hello! what  exactly do you mean by that ?

Paper wallets can suffice, but it entirely depends on your threat model. If you're concerned about them getting damaged or destroyed via fire, water or anything that could potentially come in contact with them, a metal wallet tends to have higher security based on that. However, the major concern would probably be physical security such as theft. If it's safe from theft, then the other outcomes are relatively low.

However, this depends on your current arrangement, and whether you're storing them in a house that's prone to flooding or has old questionable electrics. Only you can really determine that, otherwise you risk compromising your security. If you're storing your paper wallets outside of your house, then look at the environment you're storing them in, and decide from there.

Perhaps he was referring to stainless seed plate, you can read it here: Stainless steel Bitcoin Recovery Seed Plate (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5323755.0).

Yeah, I think paper wallet is suffice, but as @Welsh mentioned you have consider several factors, might be good to have a safety storage box for your safekeeping in a bank if you can have that option as well.

Just remember though that it's not 100% guarantee, this kind of setup has it's drawback and you really have to prepare for the worst situation.

The only thing that really makes me feel unsafe with paper backups, is the fact that the ink could fade after 20-30 years.


Absolutely! have you got any ideas that about a better setup? It seems to me that it was the only option I had.

In addition to what has been said, OP i expect you to read through the lines and got the idea, i was referring to how you can get your seed phrase secured using a metallic sheet by getting your seeds encrypted on it instead of using a paper wallet, in case you're not still clear about the point we've both given you, this is another additional one to what Baofeng has given, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.msg59506339#msg59506339 it's all about how you can secure your seed phrase with washers.

Brilliant idea! I will definetely do it this way

The chances of the other outcomes (fire, water etc) leading to losses are much lower considering that OP has dual backups in different locations. The possibility of both backups simultaneously getting damaged is infinitesimal.
With the risk of theft; paper is far more inconspicuous than a metal backup.

You would check up on your backed up seed phrases more frequently than a couple of decades and would identify any wear in the ink or paper before it becomes unreadable.

Well I have made a mistake... I can't check on one of my backups quite easily. Don't ask me why  :P I will however check once per 2-3 years to see if it's ok! Perhaps I will just make another copy of it no matter what the old paper's situation is.

2-3 years is still a decent time frame and you would be able to forsee any possible damage to the paper or visibility issues. Paper is more durable than most think and can last quite a long time if kept in a suitable location.

The most easiest way I have done this is via my ledger and one smart phone which is only turned on when I need to take out my bitcoin and spend them. So ledger everyone knows it as hardware wallet, you need the passkey and phrases and stuff. However, sometimes the security of your funds can be managed with simple tricks rather than getting too high techie about it! I have Mi phone which is old and I am no longer using it since 4-5 years now. Since then I have formatted it and only have mycellium wallet installed on it. Now the address is mostly used to fund it and I rarely withdraw anything from it. I have kept that phone turned off and locked up in my desk. I only take it out now and then when Mi releases any software's and mycelium updates etc. So far I am doing great, and it serves the purpose of security perfectly.

Yeah, paper backups can be a convenient and easy way to store important information, but their durability can be a concern. Based on my experience, prints from an inkjet printer can become unreadable much sooner than the estimated 20-30 years, and this can vary depending on environmental conditions. To mitigate these risks, it is a good idea to use archival-quality paper which are specifically designed to last longer and resist fading. Additionally, in general, laser printers and their toner-based output offer longer lasting prints compared to inkjet printers.

The problem is, I don't want to use a printer.
My seed phrase is handwritten, in black ink, totally hidden from the sunlight, inside a deck card sleeve and inside a box, protected from moisture.




I guess this means that your mobile is not connected to the internet, is it ? I don't claim there is an issue here, I am only saying that this is actually a hot-wallet if it connects to the internet. However, I agree that your usage seems to be very safe, compared to someone's that would use their mobile for everyday tasks.

In my opinion, you have created a good storage system for your bitcoins.

As far as I understand, you have three wallets, each of which has its own Seed - phrase?

If so, it seems appropriate to memorize these three Seed phrases. You can remember seed phrases using mnemonic techniques.

In particular, there is a popular mnemonic technique for remembering important information called Mind Halls. However, it is described in detail in the series about Sherlock Holmes.

The plan is great. Especially that you have kept two backups of the seedphrase so that just in case one of them goes missing or destroyed you have the other one to rescue. Also keeping 60% in a cold wallet which is not connected to any web is a great idea as well because the biggest chunk of your portfolio is then perfectly secure without any harm from hackers and even far away from you that you sell it in panic.

First layer wallet - 20%
Second layer - 30%
Third layer - 50%

This is what im doing similar to yours on which i do make out partition on my coins and this isnt only limited on Bitcoin but also
into other altcoins as well on which i do make out that kind of dividing so that i wont really be losing it all once i  would be hacked or some exploit or do make out some mistakes.
It wont really be that hurting that much if ever there's some accident since we know that internet connected devices are really that always prone to these things.

Memorising 3 seed phrases is extremely difficult and is susceptible to errors. In my opinion nobody should trust their memory for long periods of time. Memory is good, but unfortunately, you can't manage what you remember.


Thank you!!!


In general, cryptography is a complicated subject. It makes you suspicious, not trusting anyone/anything. I love it for this reason.

There are several ways to organize your Bitcoin wealth for a lifetime, including the following:

Cold storage: One of the safest ways to store your Bitcoin is by using a hardware wallet, which stores your private keys offline and away from potential hackers.

Diversification: It is also important to diversify your investments by allocating a portion of your wealth to other cryptocurrencies and assets.

Keep your private keys safe: Always keep your private keys safe and secure, and never share them with anyone. It is also recommended to make multiple copies of your private keys and store them in different locations.

Use a reliable wallet service: you can also use a reliable wallet service that provides added security measures such as multi-sig wallets and 2FA.

Regularly monitor your investments: Regularly monitor your investments and stay informed about the latest developments in the cryptocurrency market.

Seek Professional help: Consider seeking professional help from financial advisors or wealth managers who have experience in managing cryptocurrency investments.

Remember that this is not financial advice and it's important to do your own research and consult with a financial advisor before making any investment decisions.

Ufs!
I think that when I see this type of post it seems to me that there is a relationship of previous life experience that is directly causal in having an idea of what to do, that is, there are other assets-liabilities that must be organized in our day to day that lead us to complex situations, more than what is involved in organizing with bitcoin.

Great plan though but have you ever plan ahead if ever something's going to happen to you then who would be the trusted person that should give those BTC to your children?

Do you have only BTC as investment? What if there's an altcoins?

I think most of us doesn't make it to the third-layer yet but rather to the second-layer as convenient to use for day-to-day stuff. If someone did made a profit on the past bull run then it's time for them to make a third-layer safe for the future of their children.

OK, I understand because you probably know that keeping bitcoin in one basket is not safe in the long term especially when the amount is significant.
I think you can choose several hardware wallets regardless if you want to have 1-5 HW, while you can have other bitcoin wallets on your smartphone like Electrum or others to fulfill your daily transaction needs.

I don't want to have too many wallets, maybe 1-2 HW is enough and 1 more on my smartphone. Safe is the hope, but the path only depends on how we treat our wallets and storage device.

Everyone can manage his assets based n how he used how his playing to hold the bitcoins but I personally won't use any mobile wallet even the most secure wallets are always dangerous, the main reason is your phone can be vulnerable against many RATs, viruses and malware while there is also a high chance of losing your phone or someone may robe your phone on the street that's why I personally won't save any important information in the phone I use unless you have two phones and one phone can be dedicated only for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and that's what I do. Also, I hold the bitcoin I want to hold for the long term inside another bitcoin wallet.

You can classify it by your wallets for trading with Bitcoin and using Bitcoin for getting cash or buy goods, items and wallets for hodling.

I don't think classifying them to first and second layer wallets is good and correct in technical terms. Hot and cold wallets are more correct. Hot wallets can be used for trading and regular using for payments. Cold wallets are safer and more relevant for hodling.

With hardware wallets, you can use them for trading and holding too.

[Guide] Secure air-gapped crypto wallet storage method (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828437.msg28990059#msg28990059)

If that's your only worry you can update the ink every ten or so years, verify that the newly created paper works, and that should do it. Of course, that's assuming that stays your only worry. I wouldn't convert to metal, at an additional expense if that's your only concern. It doesn't even have to be ten years, it could be less. It really does depend on what you want to do, but changing to metal seems quite extreme if you don't need that. If you think that it could be exposed to certain elements, I'd say go for it.

You should probably have multiple backups in different places anyway, which could actually defeat the point of metal backups, as long as the paper versions are all secured.

Have multiple backups is good and checking usability of backups is good too.

If a wallet on our device is still usable but our backups were damaged and can not be used when we check backups, we can make new backups to replace old ones. If we think backups can be used forever and don't check them regularly, when we need backups for recovery, we can have nightmare.

Multiple backups are good to protect our funds when our device is broken and one of backups is damaged too.

Right, and you should be verifying each copy that you make of a backup every time, by importing the private key or seed into a offline client, and verifying everything matches up. Not enough users do that, and tend to neglect verifying because it takes time. However, it could potentially save you from losing your Bitcoin.

I wish there was a way of teaching newcomers this, without it being an hindrance to them. Probably, isn't a easy way of doing that though.

I'm not sure why your Bitcoin should be organized this way when a hardware wallet provides everything you need. This is not a requirement that you manage a large number of accounts. I do the same thing with fiat; I don't keep money in a single bank account. Because bankruptcy could occur at any time. But when it comes to crypto, I never compromise on security. To store my cryptocurrency, I always use a hardware wallet. So everything is safe and secure there. Unless my seed phrase is compromised, there is no way to steal my cryptocurrency without my hardware wallet.

The more complexity you have with your finances, the more likely that you will fuck it all up.

For crypto, you only need 2 wallets:

1- A hot wallet where you keep low amounts for your daily purchases. (A mobile phone would do)
2- A cold wallet where you keep your life savings. (A self made paper wallet)

You don't really have to make it more confusing than it already is. If you can't keep it simple to keep your coins safe, maybe you should stick to banks.