Bitcoin Forum

Hello everyone.

My first experience with cryptocurrency was with a popular bitcoin faucet known as freebitco.in.

A trusted site for years at this point, they utilize many forms of authentication technology, provable mechanics in all their games (not just the multiply game but on dplay and stuff too), and they are one of if not the largest distributors of free digital gold in the world.

They have a great business model too, especially if it has been running for the amount of time it has.

My question is, does provably fair technology exists specifically because of crypto gambling or is it something else?

Thank you so much for answering <3 everyone, I learned a lot :D!

As far I know, provably fair technology in crypto gambling is simply the application of cryptography/hash functions onto an specific market or purpose, so one can verify the gambling results in a trust-less way. The theory behind it is not actually new.

I am not sure what the first platform that started this trend was, though.

Provably fair on crypto gambling is the right way to get the trust of the users. And most of the gambling sites have the same provably fair engine or at least the same logic.

For this we need cryptography, the sites have a server seed and the users have a seed too, in most of the sites users can modify the user seed, that way they can trust that the game hasn't been rigged, so, the server mix the server seed with the user seed, and from there comes to the bet result. That's how it works and that's why we should trust those provably fair engines.

You nailed it mate and just to add a few things to what you already said, probably fair systems may not.be peculiar to cryptocurrency gambling alon and game harsh verifications may be fair from what a provably fair system is in practice.
I may be wrong anyway but that is my own understanding of what probably fair is in gambling.
And I am also sure that, other none cryptocurrency casinos also have ways to verify their transaction using the bet id to get players to bet histories.

Yes, I believe so. Provably fair technology was created as a solution to the trust problems faced by players in conventional online gambling platforms. It primarily uses cryptographic algorithms to produce random results that players can independently verify. To my knowledge, the first platforms to adopt this concept were simple blockchain-based games, such as SatoshiDICE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77870.msg865877#msg865877).

It is what used in gambling to verify the result which will be use to make people trust their system that it is not rigged or something like that and how it is done is you can read it the post above. When a new Casino is launched then people will ask if they could trust it with their funds and the game is not rigged then that's where the provably fsir technology come. I think that's the origin of the provably fsir technology in opinion though I might be wrong about it.

^ This is very important in crypto gambling, because of this we know how to verify bets if that is legitimate that they generate seeds for every bet. In fact, we have a provably fair verifier from btcgosu.com, https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/.
If you have doubts about the seed generated on the gambling casino, you can simply verify it.

Server seed + client seed + bet nonce combination is used to find bet results in provably fair house games. Users can verify seed on any third-party websites after rotating previous server seed in order to reveal unhashed server seed which is essential in verification process. Some users even can code this on Python so it is not anymore time consuming activity to compare bet results on casino.

Indeed it was stated that provably fair technology was introduce in the crypto casino to address the trust issue of online casinos.  It does came to exist when casinos starts integrating Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency in their platoform.

According the the article[1], Provably fair is the latest technology that graced online gambling. As it is new, most gamblers don’t know about it yet. The technology is primarily used in bitcoin or crypto casinos and games. To define it, provably fair is an algorithm that checks and verifies an online casino’s fairness towards its players. It relinquishes the fear of most players that online gambling sites will rip them off.

So provably fair technology created because of the need of transparency  and fair system in the gambling industry.

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[1] https://worldfinancialreview.com/what-does-provably-fair-mean-for-crypto-casinos/

The earliest known reference to this particular term can be found in a post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6993.msg474577#msg474577) on the Bitcointalk forum, which dates back to 2011. This early mention suggests that the idea of using the term "provably fair" to describe a honest and transparent system for gambling with bitcoin was a novel concept at the time. It is possible that the term had not been used in this sense before the advent of bitcoin casinos, but this remains unverified.

It is the confidence that chance is the only one that influences the result. That in itself should tip the use of crypto casinos, but it does not happen, it is in a way a very low adoption still. Another story.

Anyway! the date its birth is due to the blockchain, that is, in a certain way it is a rhetorical question if you know the beginnings of bitcoin then you know when PF arises.  8)

i believe, this has been used even at the early stage of online crypto gambling to convince players that the games were not rigged and it has fairness basis. as basically anyone can set-up their online casino, this feature was like the determining factor whether the site was to be trusted or not.

I guess provably fair tech is only possible thanks to blockchain so this statement is partially correct. Crypto gambling may or may not exist - it's the blockchain that makes provably fair tech possible imo.

I only mentioned provably fair algorithms in Bitcoin casinos, because I have personally never signed in a purely FIAT casino. To be honest with you, I did not know that FIAT casinos actually also made sure to be provably fair, I thought their used their license somehow and gamblers were supposed to trust their games.

I thought this way because the term "don't trust, verify" it is prominent here in the Bitcoin community and ecosystem.

To be more precise, the emergence of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology gave rise to the idea of "provably fair" technology in the context of online gambling. Before before, it was hard to tell whether an online gambling site was legitimate or not, therefore many people avoided using them.

A visible and unchangeable log of all the transactions and game outcomes on a decentralized platform is now feasible thanks to blockchain technology and the usage of cryptographic hashes. Thus, the outcomes of the game may be checked by the participants to ensure that they are legitimate.


In 2012, a basic dice game called Satoshi Dice was developed on the Bitcoin blockchain and marked the first use of this technology in the online gambling industry. Provably fair technology, originally developed for use with Bitcoin, has now been used by a large number of cryptocurrency-based online gaming venues.

In fact, provable fairness was first introduced in online gambling to solve the problem of trust, where players were concerned about the honesty and randomness of the games offered. And only then this technology was also used for transparency of the results of games and applications based on blockchain.

Upd: I will correct myself so as not to mislead the first methods of checking the honesty of the game used just a random number generator or used an audit of independent companies, but the very concept of provably fair technology in gambling arose in the context of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology.

I think provably fair comes from CSGO gambling, in fact, it was the first virtual casino creating the term provably fair. I am not sure which counter-strike casino did.

We created a big site for information about Provably Fair on Provablefair.com (http://Provablefair.com), including strategies and calculators for dice.

As I know "provably fair" exist only in the crypto gambling space. Blockchain is responsible for that:

Source: Glossary of Provably Fair Games – how does it work? (https://www.igaminggroup.com/blockgaming/provably-fair-games/#:~:text=It%20means%20that%20an%20online,or%20alter%20the%20game%20outcomes.)

Basically, with provably fair technology the casino is no longer in complete control of the outcome. This is why provably fair casinos are better than traditional ones... With provably fair games you can always check the fairness.
If you really want to learn about it there are many articles and blogs about provably fair technology. One of the good ones is this one: Provably fair explained (https://www.provably.com/).


Before, and now for many traditional casinos and games, it was impossible to verify the fairness of the game.

this provably fair technology that maybe a lot of people like it more because it's transparent without casino interference so people can verify their bets, but I don't know who started it I don't think it's freebitcoin, I'm just a loyal user of freebitcoin and I'm very active there they are right true good site giving free bitcoins to all newbies  ;)

I have seen "probably fair" many times proposed, also from other early casinos like satoshibones or primedice.

The argument has been discussed several times here on forum, have a look on this topic:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5150219.0 about detailed explanation.

Using Cryptocurrency like Bitcoin will warrant an open ledger transaction so this casinos have no choice but ti be fair to their clients. The Blockchain thanks to its innovation has forced crypto casinos to either remain fair or lose their reputation and this is why many reliable casino are emerging based on the technology.

Without a little proof, this statement is up in the air. A reference would anchor it down and give it some stability.  ;)

Ah, so you're a fan of provably fair technology! I can understand why, the transparency and lack of casino interference is definitely appealing. It's great to hear that you're a loyal user of FreeBitco.in and have had a positive experience there. As for the origin of provably fair technology, it's difficult to say who started it as it's likely the result of contributions from multiple people in the industry. But it's awesome that you found a platform you trust and enjoy using!

From the https://www.provably.com/


Blockchain was mentioned, so obviously, these words started in the crypto world. And it simply means that results are verifiable in the blockchain, without a blockchain it cannot be called a Provably fair game.

I agree with you and but technology that is truly fair in gambling seems to have many categories and is very different, of course, especially in the eyes of gambling fans.
As for its origins, I still don't know and am not sure because I have known the crypto gambling industry not long enough. Maybe those who have been on this forum since the beginning of the forum know more about this information.

I remembered that before freebitco.inI also tried those faucets 5 years ago, I was still getting 500-1000 sats at that time. I still don't understand much about bitcoin, I just know that I can get free BTC there.

    Now, regarding your question, there is no fairness when it comes to gambling in cryptocurrency. Of course, a casino will not be built if the owner knows that he is a loser, of course, that is not the case.

AFAIK the first one who has implemented this technology in its current form is Espringe (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=310298) in his famous crash game(the first one too) MoneyPot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709185) which became Bustabit later. Rhavar bought it and improved it. I may be wrong but I don't know older games using this feature as it is today.

As far as I know, there are choices and recommendations for online casinos that can be assessed in games at every online casino. It can be seen that they are still fair for users who place bets, regardless of technology they use systems like flash, HTML5 and random to make them look fair in the game.

You should also understand other options in the assessment of each online casino that you want to use fairly, for example: the other hand, namely recommendations from several trusted sources on the internet or from the side of other professional users and experienced users at the online casino, it can also help you avoid fake games, mistakes or fraud that can happen at any time.

I just came across this concept of provably fair in crypto casinos a few years ago and I can only believe in it even though there is a way to prove it fair. I prefer to believe it and wouldn't bother to check it, especially if a reputable and trusted casino delivered it. They will maintain the reputation and trust of users with that provably fair concept and don't want to misuse it because it relates to their place of business. The more they can provide the best for their users, the more famous the casino will be.

The term is new in the crypto casinos' space and not all gamblers or bettors even understand the concept. Provably fairness on crypto casinos gambling is a very good technology because it detects the fairness of a casino for the gamblers. But the three variables must be used effectively. Server seed (https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/s/seed.htm), Client seed (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178950.0), Cryptographic nonce (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_nonce).
I totally agree with ethereumhunter that if a casino provide the good parts from their players and in return the players can provide the best of their choice of casinos then casinos will be willing to maintain their reputations just as the op does for freebitco, they have to maintain that standard.

Generally, I think that provably fair system is existing not just on cryptocurrency space, but also to any system that includes blockchain and is most of the time (if not always) related to gambling (because it is RNG). It was created for transparency.
Just like what you mentioned, for CS go gambling, it's another type of gambling but it is not in cryptocurrency space.

This is just a personal opinion.

No, as far as I research in this very forum  the provably fair system was used on mining pools before but can't say for sure if this has been implemented considering the early thing I did researched for provably fair pools was in early 2016 with Slush Pool. Nevertheless, it was a success on crypto casinos.

Probably fair gambling do exists, this is a  procedure where a player or gambler can verify that the consequences of games have been fair in real-time. Have you heard about Hashing before? this is the transformation of a longer string of data into a shorter string, when a seed numeral is hashed, it is encrypted. Some use seed generators and random number generators too.

Cryptographic hash functions and seed numbers are commonly used in provably fair technology verification methods. The operator generates a random seed number and hashes it, after which the player is given the option of adding their own seed. The final result is generated using both seed numbers and then hashed, making manipulation of the outcome impossible for either the operator or the player.
To ensure fairness and transparency, some provably fair systems use public random number generators, such as those provided by blockchain networks.

I cannot find anything of use on my net search about the history of provably fair. The application of the tech probably started or was made popular by crypto gambling platforms. Traditional casinos only has tools to "prove" randomness like an RNG Certificate but never heard of any player having the means to verify the result.

yes it's interesting but I never want to try to play playing with dice rolls there, because even though it uses technology that is proven fair I don't think any casino wants to lose and all dealers want to profit from that game, you can try it if you want  ;D

I am sure that there would have been similar mechanisms in places where it would have been required, personally I have only ever seen "provably fair" painted on bitcoin/cryptocurrency casinos though. I don't think even most fiat casinos offer this kind of reassurance to bet legitimacy. Whether or not all "provably fair" systems are completely honest and true is what I continually wonder every time I see the words. I suppose that is another topic though and something I can not comment on with certainty (no one can I suppose).

Yes. The concept of 'provably fair' technology in gambling can be traced back to the rise of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. When Bitcoin came around in 2009, it brought a new level of transparency and trust to financial transactions. And that's what got people thinking, "Hey, why not use this technology to make online gambling fair too?" This, in turn, inspired the idea of using cryptographic algorithms to ensure fairness in online gambling.


Your first sentence is logically flawed. Merely mentioning something does not necessarily make it a reliable fact to base a conclusion on. Also, I have to correct you on your second statement. While 'provably fair' technology may use similar methods to blockchain, like cryptography, it doesn't necessarily mean it requires blockchain to be considered valid. There are numerous examples of online casinos that have adopted 'provably fair' methods that don't involve blockchain or cryptocurrencies in any way.

The provably fair technology actually make use of 3 things.... the Serverseed which is hashed (encrypted) and the Clientseed which is known to the gambler and which can be changed by the player on some sites and also the Nonce that increase with each bet, making sure that each bet can be unique and also be tracked.  ;)

So for obvious reasons the Server seed are encrypted to protect the casino, but with the hashed server seed, you can determine if the process was scripted or if it was indeed a legitimate bet, with a variable outcome.   ;)

I hope you know that there are some sites that do not care about reputation. Blockchain games are more interesting especially using Bitcoin to make many of our betting. It is very easier for us because we are out the stress from bank and the government trying to look into how we bets and how we spend our money

Yes, it’s actually done through a robust encryption. This provably fair technology helps to create more game transparency and its game integrity that’s why crypto gambling has its constant feature of this provably fair technology. This is also the reason why these provably fair casinos are more reliable than those traditional online casinos as games have more assurance that they are not rigged and are very transparent.

Crypto casinos needs to protect their reputation or else they will be ignored by the gamblers and just look for the other options who are more trust worthy. This might not new technology but in crypto it is very important to know the fairness of the site and to know if they are claiming things right. Doing cryptography might not be so easy though, you need the data and a lot of time for this, not all gamblers cares about the fairness as long as they are playing on a reputable site.

I think he already knows that, and that is why he said that "a casino must be fair or lose its reputation" but a casino can also lost its reputation in other ways and not through this provably technology only. This is why being observant in the movements of the casino that we are playing is a must so that we can take immediate actions before they pull the rug.

Blockchain/crypto games can offer anonymity or freedom due to their decentralized nature but stress can still be felt once we can't accept our losses from playing the game. That mostly can occur if your goal in gambling is to solely make money but if you only play for fun then things can only go smoothly.

I want to tell you that those site that does not careful reputation when you take them very well he will know that those sites are not legit site and there are not reportable not everyone can recommend a qualified to you because any sites that have a reputation have total numbers of customers who patronize is them for any of their games or their products

Yes they exist but not only because of crypto gambling they existed, though we have them in crypto gambling as well because every transactions happening is open on the distributed ledger which makes it more secured, any technology that is open, secured and does not involved a third party authorization is fare enough to use and trust just as we find with the crypto casinos today, online crypto gambling is is provably a fare technology we adopt in modern gambling today.

I don't even understand exactly what you are saying but I tried to think of if you are making a bunch of the technology used in gambling but I found it very difficult to the code exactly what you are saying I don't so for me it is difficult for me to decode everything for now

I suppose fiat casinos do not need to add this for several reasons, most fiat gamblers would not know how to verify their bets to make sure they were not being cheated to begin with, also I suppose that on the early days of cryptocurrency casinos they operated without a license, maybe because they refused to obtain one or because it was impossible for them to get one at the time, but they still needed to show their customers their games were not rigged, and they developed this mechanism to corroborate the results, something unnecessary for fiat casinos as they hold licenses and their games are verified by government officials.

Because nowadays more and more casinos are popping up and competition between casinos is getting tougher, so it is certain and not surprising that every casino will maintain its good reputation through fair technology and provide even better service so that they still earn the trust of gamblers as a place to play or bet. .
Even though there are several ways to get or maintain reputation, the main factor is to provide justice for every player and always prioritize the interests of the players because if these two factors are ignored, I'm sure they will lose to other casinos in gaining the trust of users at inside.
So that we always get justice and satisfaction with the casino, choose the most reputable and most popular casino so that we are not disappointed when using the casino.

even though it uses fair technology but sometimes the house will always win, it's been a question mark until now, I also don't care that they use this technology basically when playing I just have to control myself in playing wisely and seek luck in every game  ;D

This will be hard to answer for those who had not yet experienced online casinos without cryptocurrencies as their options.
We actually have the same start, freebitco.in was also where I do my faucets before and then gamble it for either the lottery or dice. I'll buy as many tickets that I could get, sadly I never won there but in dice, I got a special bonus for hitting the number "7" or "77" iirc.

Back to the point, I don't remember online casinos using provably fair before and I never actually heard it too. It was in the year that crypto gambling was booming when it came out. BitVest or Lucky777 might have the records of where it started.

https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/767/how-to-fairly-select-a-random-number-for-a-game-without-trusting-a-third-party
This is one of the first discussion about provably fair I was able to find. It's from September 2011. That should answer the question about the origins. I guess it came naturally as gambling sites wanted to have a proof of their transparency.



First of all, sometimes and always don't go along well. It's either this or that.
Then we can address another problem which is that your whole post is incoherent and makes no sense. Stake is paying for that crap? Really?


I thought that post was bad, but the more I read the responses in this thread it keeps getting worse...

A house cannot allow players alone to win, rest assured that they'd benefit from every action they would make on their platform. Also, as a casual gambler, would you mind seeking for such thing instead of putting your attention on how you would come up with  win?
Transparency is and would always be wuestioned on gambling sites and even on some lotteries simply because people are being somehow desperate of winning. I have no problem with it and I guess it would be better to just leave if you think a gambling platform is somehow doing a 'rig' on results. Fairness of a gambling site would be brought up with luck based games, which is on my opinion, even if it would cross the idea of this topic, better to engage with sportsbetting wherein results are close-ended.

I agree with you, of course.
I just wished there was easier for the average gambler to understand and corroborate the integrity of their gambling results in a faster and more convenient way.
Because, let us be honest, I doubt an important percentage of gamblers actually make use of the provably fair feature. I still struggle a bit to fully check results through hashes.

Because they assume that the probably fair feature is in place and the need of checking them is not necessary anymore. I'd say that those who can read the hashes are on a better side than the non tech savvy people who can't read the hashes. Now, I'd ask can a casino hide behind the claim of having a provably fair feature without applying such feature on their machines? Because, these days it seems like the house is in control of our wins, yet provably fair is boldy written on their TOS. Currently, few players can check for themselves if truly provably fair is available on the casino. Hence, it's not an easy to learn technique. So, it's kinda tricky.

I think that in those cases where there are a lot people using a service and way less people willing to check the integrity of the software is very similar to what we see with open source wallets.

Thousands of people use them and few people check the software, but we can trust that most of the cases, as soon as someone finds a bug or error, it can be easily proven and communicated to the community and service provider, so it can be fixed for the good of the ecosystem as a whole. These instances are also supported by what the ToS of casino say about the provably fair features, as you mentioned.

It was a topic full of skepticism and more doubt because of the fact that these sites are still controlled by a central entity, so people who are none the wiser with how true provably fair works think that they are rigging the system to their favor at the expense of people's hard-earned skins and creds. The truth of the matter is I haven't really dug deep into the issue when it first came out but just like you guys, I was made aware of it because the term "provably fair" is not something that you would normally see outside the cryptocurrency industry. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it became so controversial at the time as well, back when trust for crypto is practically nonexistent due to multiple reports of newbies getting scammed and whatnot.

It could be argued that without a way to verify your results cryptocurrency casinos would not have made it far as there will always exist the doubt on the back of our minds if we are being cheated or not, but probably fair resolves this problem, and even if there are a few bad losers out there which claim they have been cheated by honest casinos in this way, it can be verified that this was not the case, and this increased the trust the community had on casinos and it let them grow to their current size.

Yes, it is only exclusive for crypto gambling by using robust encryption that will ensure the transparency and fairness of crypto games. Moreover, with provably fair technology, gamblers are discouraged to cheat unlike regular casinos wherein some games are obviously rigged that’s why some frustrated players are expected to cheat so they can recover their huge losses when they start playing.

 Most of the gambling casinos offer a good RTP and fair play to the players if this not might happen I guess the trust of the players will regret playing on that casino and of course to make it fair to the casino not all the players have the rights to win just a chance to have a good profit, that's the reason why some of the players seeking for the opportunity to have good perks once they play such as the deposit bonus, free spins, and rakeback still depends on the preferences of the players to make themselves feel fair to them.

Provably fair is basically an algorithm consisting of cryptography and hash functions to derive a number.
Most of the gambling sites include 3 major elements into their provably fair algorithm which are server seed, client seed and nonce.
Its known that provably fair is by far the best way to derive a random number. Its trusted by most of the gamblers in the community.

Something like this is how I interpret what Provably Fair can be, a strong algorithm that is completely impartial, it is also widely accepted throughout the casino and betting community, and if it has that acceptance it is because it really is very reliable.

I had that same curiosity years ago, at the programming level I have no idea how that code can be, Prabavly Fair is the best way so that no game can be manipulated. There will be many who will try to beat Probavly Fair, but it is impossible. And I am sure that many players will have had that doubt.

Even I think there will be people who would be trying to beat provably fair system but would have failed since it is not so easy to do it.
There are few people who have built some generators which creates a simulation of X bets and gives us the results.
Here X is the number we provide as input and then people refer the results and use it as a reference for their next bet.
I wonder how that works out for them but they have shown it to work nicely in their scenarios.
Still nothing can really beat the provably fair algorithm yet.

I remembered seeing this talk in Reddit years ago, took a moment to look it up, and this is probably the one you were talking about?
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4rdiqe/what_is_a_provably_fair_gambling_system_how_are/

I actually have no idea whether this is true or not, or how provably fair really works never really took the time to research this (and as a teen back then, even if I did read all of this, understanding it would be another). The logic is fairly simple to understand though imo, just that proving if it really works or not is another thing. I've mostly played on reputable casinos, only taking the time to try a few new ones but not spending that much in them so I don't risk any "provably fair" like casinos.

By playing gambling at a reputable casino, we don't have to worry about the problem of being "provably fair" because if the casino does that, it will affect the casino's reputation if the casino can't do it. And when they are found to be "provably not fair" after someone checks the algorithm, it will immediately make the casino's reputation falls. Perhaps, many members will immediately leave the casino because they don't want to get scammed by the casino. And that is why I also choose to play gambling at reputable casinos to avoid being "unfair," which can be done at any time by any casino.