Bitcoin Forum

A few days ago I found, by pure chance, that the sticky topic from Scam Accusation board containing a scam accusation format (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260073.0) was created by a user which has now a -4 Trust score (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=76380): escrow.ms. Furthermore, the user has also an active flag created against him, after he was arrested for credit card fraud Oo

I thought it's a bit ironic to have a sticky topic teaching how to properly present a scam accusation and the topic to be made by someone involved in a severe scam.

Then I kept looking through the forum and I found other sticky topics which are created by authors with negative Trust:

• Bitcoin discussion/Legal: List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96118.0) is created by Stephen Gornick (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2228), which has a negative feedback from The Sceptical Chymist for account selling, encouraging of scams, spam, and account farming.
• Bitcoin discussion\Legal: this board has another sticky topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77446.0) created by Stephen Gornick
• Bitcoin discussion\Legal: this board has one more sticky topic created by an author with negative Trust: Guidelines for Press board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76487.0), created by jgarzik (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=541), which has a negative feedback from gmaxwell
• Marketplace\Lending: [EDU] How to spot a scammer (Read this before lending your coins!) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119896.0) is created by Tomatocage  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=37522), whose account has been compromised (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5151630.0)

Most likely, the list can go on, as i did not look thoroughly inside each board and child board.

I believe that these sticky topics created by authors with negative Trust should not be sticky anymore, as they do not offer credibility to the boards they belong, to the ones which read them and to the forum as a whole. It's a situation similar to the one related to DT2 users with negative Trust. However, if that situation is difficult to be solved, this one has real chances to be solved, if there is willing about doing so.

Eventually, these topics could be rewritten by someone which does not have negative Trust / bad reputation. Or simply have the author changed, if their authors are not active anymore.

Opinions?

How about banned members with negative trust?
Lauda also had negative trust even before he left the forum and got banned, other members found some cases when he did plagiarism in his early days, but I think we have several sticky topics from him.
Some of them can be found in Beginners & Help, others in our local board, and maybe there are other stickies I didn't notice.

I have nothing against members you mentioned in your example, but maybe it's time to check again all sticky topics and update what is needed.
It's not only issue with negative trust, but I think some topics are really outdated and others need to be deleted.

I don't see big issue there. If content is still good, I don't think their topics should be removed from stickies just because author of it received negative trust. And it would a bit strange to rewrite their topics by someone else. But there is another question - some pinned topics hasn't been updated for many years and it's obsolette now. It would be good to update it, remove or replace with new ones.

After rewriting their topics, should the new OP credit the original author by mentioning their names or just plagiarize them?

Edit, curious case of Benjamin Button!😂

None does matter except the contents of the topic. The contents are still useful, still a good guide to report a scam accusation. So all seems good.

Compering Lauda with escrow.ms is only viable with the feedback of their trust page. I don't think the OP was talking about only the feedback page but the whole escrow.ms thing. Lauda banned herself and wanted to disappear with her own will. If she would not decide to disappear then she would still thrive.

I like how you leave troll questions. Good for you 🤣
No, we don't need to know each others, the answer you asked me in another thread.

I fully agree with you here. It is, indeed, a lot of obsolete information... But this would also imply an entire campaign from administration for revamping all these topics and I am not sure if anyone would be willing to do this entire work. Instead, what I proposed was referring only to a part of the whole which needs revamping, thus being a little easier to achieve.

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How can I explain this better...? In my opinion, having a good material, but presented by someone with negative Trust is like a stain on the face of the topic or on the face of the respective board. Imagine a corrupt politician presenting a good material in front of public. If everybody knows he is corrupt, that material loses its credibility. However, in our case it also leads to losing the credibility on the respective board, since it contains sticky topics from those which are scammers or which have bad reputation, negative feedbacks, flags against them and so on.

How would it be to have a sticky topic written by CSW or Roger Ver inside Bitcoin discussion board? Would you believe anything from it? Furthermore: wouldn't you ask yourself "How was it possible to have here a sticky topic written by that clown?" -- do you understand now what I mean? :)

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Lauda... is Lauda :) What can I say. Lauda is a different story. For one reason, she is not actually banned... I think it's more appropriate to say that her account was locked. Okay, technically speaking she was banned, but she was banned in same way Satoshi's account was banned :)


Excepting that, some of her negative feedbacks are referring to her departure:

qwk   2020-12-01   Reference   Farewell Lauda.
Dabs   2020-11-08   Reference   Lauda said Goodbye, world! Account is no longer active.
Vod   2020-11-05   Reference   Do not trust this account should it ever post again.

The plagiarism accusation... if you remember, she was never sanctioned for it, therefore mods / theymos did not consider it plagiarism, although, maybe, it was.

I would not insist more on Lauda as I know opinions are very different from user to user. In any case, she also has some topics which contain obsolete information and they need revamping. One of them is this one: [General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1631151.0).

In any case, something should be done with all these topics, either if we talk about obsolete ones or about the ones written by scammers or users with shady reputation.

Technically it's make sense it's need to be a good people who need to representing a good content, but I think this forum doesn't that strict for having such kind rule. I've seen a lot users are having two or more personalities which you can find it easily on Bitcoin discussion or Beginner & Help where the user saying "I hate centralized exchange", but after looking at his other post you will found he's admitting he was using centralized exchange.

Personally I don't mind if the useful post was written by clown, just like how we give merit because of the good post, not the user. A good and respected user isn't a God where all of his word is true and trusted.

If the content is relevant and useful, I don't think it matters who wrote it. Since for those who understand the trust system of the forum, you will not look at the OP of this topic, but at the content of it. Perhaps those who visit the topics the most are newbies and many may still not clearly understand how the trust system works, nor will they notice it.

Now, what I think should be evaluated were the topics that are fixed. Many were written nearly 10 years ago, and probably already contain information that is out of date or of little current value. Those who created these topics have their merit, but it is necessary to review and write new ones.


What are the criteria for a topic to be pinned?

Think about this: BitcoinTalk forum has (should have) very high standards. It cares (through its users and administration) a lot for combating spam, for example. It is one of the very few (if not the only) forums which bans plagiarism. And examples can go on and on. These high standards pushed this forum way ahead of others, like CryptocoinTalk, AltcoinTalk etc. Right? If it is so, then these high standards should be enforced wherever possible. Including in not having sticky topics with obsolete materials or created by authors with no credibility. Picture these sticky topics as landmarks of a particular board. Having a topic set as sticky one makes it practically to be pushed forward in front of all other topics, right? It means it is a topic representative for the respective board. Maybe one of most important topics of that board. And, if that topic is written by someone with -5 Trust what impression does it make about the entire board? I think this thought appears naturally, for many users: "Since most important topic of this board is written by a scammer then this board is full of scammers.".

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Don't you find ironic at all that a topic which is representative for Legal board (such as List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96118.0)) to be written by a scammer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2228), also involved in account selling and account farming?! Seriously?

Don't you find ironic at all that a topic which is representative for Scam accusation board to be written by a felon arrested for scams?

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I fully agree here and I also mentioned these materials in the previous posts of this topic.

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I have no idea... I asked theymos once twice, but I did not receive any answer.

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Lol! True, there are some having a double personality disorder =)))

I think another reason why a banned user can have a chances of creating an appeal on the the ban placed is for the community to look into the case at first, access the whole situation if or not a second chance can be given after considering the role such user had played in the past to the forum growth, i user can get banned and his threads created that has significant taughts can still be use, as a matter of fact the thread can also be active if the discussion is what should be on a continuous follow-up, any member that violate the rules faces the consequence no matter who he is and that doesn't renders his past thread less important.

No doubt I find it very ironic!

But who better to explain how not to fall for scams than the scammer himself? They know well how the scheme works, so they are the best at explaining how not to fall into this trap.  ::)

Of course, that doesn't make much sense and doesn't look good. But, as I commented, the majority of users who will look at these topics are users who don't know well how the forum's trust system works and therefore don't even notice it.

But I agree that this and other topics can be written, with more current information and by more reliable users (to date).


GazetaBitcoin why don't you try to make a new topic on the subject, and then ask to be pinned in place of the old one? It doesn't hurt to try...

I don't think it works just like that...

I believe that should be a decision taken together with moderators, theymos and a majority of users.

If I (or anyone else) would just do it, without consent or approval of forum staff, such move may be considered, in best case scenario, as a double topic. And it would imply questions like "Why haven't you checked first, to see if there is any other topic on this matter"?. Remember, that was the best case scenario. Worst case scenario is to have the new topic reported as plagiarism and actually be considered by mods as plagiarizing the original one, which leads to ban.

For these reasons I am reluctant in doing anything unless a consent is met or until a decision coming from theymos, although seeing a sticky topic written by a scammer in Legal board feels like a kidney stone and when I see the sticky from Scam accusation board also written by a scammer my eyes are bleeding :)

I totally understand.
There really isn't a leeway, unless it's something agreed with the admin/moderation of the forum.

Perhaps, make a more detailed overview of all these sticky topics, regardless of who wrote them, and suggest the respective update or authorization to update them.

The way DT is these days, it's entirely possible that there could eventually be a - sticky topic on nearly every board. Scammers make DT every month and their inclusions then make DT2 leading to lots of new/old tags that will be visible on trust scores.

My opinion, as long as the information is valid, why mess with it? The easier solution if anything might be to remove trust scores on sticky topics.

Lauda asked to be banned after he was exposed for plagiarism that ruined his reputation, and he is a male but you can call him it if you want.
Punishment for multiple cases of plagiarism is permaban so he decided to perform hara-kiri.

But we the people (members) can report all sticky topics that are obsolete and outdated, and this is not so hard to accomplish.
I am sure we can find plenty of volunteers for this work and for editing or rewriting this topics.

DT coalition is sadly on life support currently.  :P

Most sticky topics in Beginners & Help section has outdated information.
Imagine recommending someone Bitcoin wallets with topic that was not updated for years, or checking How to earn Bitcoins topic, and this is just a few examples.
Trust feedback is important, but I think it's time to check and clean up all stickies.

I get your point and it's not perfect situation. Idea;;y, stickies should be written by someone with perfect reputation. From general image perspective, it doesn't looks good, even if content of post is good. But I think it's not right to compare users that you mentioned in OP and CSW or Roger Ver. Biggest clown in crypto and someone with compromised account - maybe a bit too extreme comparison. And negative trust doesn't always can be received for scamming something, sometimes it can result of disagreement between DT members, even if it's not right use of trust system. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that Lauda had negative trust even when she was active as she was contraversial personality.
I doubt that we will hear theymos stance on it, but from what I understand, he don't want to mix moderation and trust system much. But it would be interesting to hear what forum staff thinks about it.

Topic can only be removed if noticed was a total plagiarism or low effort topic can get deleted automatically. For those with redtag there's no need to get their topic erased I think they could be used for reference purposes if those content are valuable or helpful to be use by the forum members.  Tag are just a result of not being honest or involved in mal-activities.

What if the new author of the pinned thread received a negative feedback for some reason ^{since DT are regularly changing so reds wil be visible}, so another author/thread will be chosen to be pinned, so on and so forth, there's no end to that.

Permanent solution could be an admin/mods made account ^{(or just them)} that is only for this kind of topics ^{(pinned topic)}. This thread can be edited by mods as well so it will be easy to edit it when it becomes outdated just need a reminder.

May be I messed up my memory but as far as I remember the plagiarism thing happened a long time ago and after discovering it we also passed long years. When Lauda asked for banning herself, at that time there were nothing existed, she was doing well and the good bye thread came just suddenly. Again I may messed up my memory, after all I am ageing 🤣

Lauda male or female or shemale (😉) still is a mystery. But she was a cat for sure.

Creating special account just for pinned posts is kinda over complicating the issue and it would be more elegant if they just did it by themselves on their own main accounts. After all, how often mods get tagged for scams?


Iirc plagiarized posts were made in 2015 and they were discovered in 2020 so yeah I think you are right. And then few months after the discovery, Lauda decided to leave the forum . Since he didn't get any sort of ban in the meantime I am not so sure that was the main reason for leaving. Unless he felt kinda embarrassed with all that mess since he was very strict when other plagiarized and decided to leave.

Oh man, I handed out that negative when I was on a rampage back in 2016 and anyone even placing a bet (when forum accounts were being auctioned publicly) would get one from me. 

To the point of this thread, I don't think it matters who the author is of a stickied thread as long as whatever point is being made is valid, which should be the case since the assumption is that pegging a thread to the front page of a section is an endorsement of its importance and accuracy by Theymos and/or the mods.

Stephen Gornick never asked me to remove that feedback as far as I know.  I probably should, since it was so long ago but I have mixed feelings about it.  Judging from his other feedback he looks to be a chronic seller of accounts of various types.  Or at least was when he was last active here.[/list]

The creation of special account is to avoid of having negative feedback since it will only be used for such purpose since the main issue here is the account/s of having negative trusts/tag because mods even admins can be tagged, like who knows they are inevitable from that.

Let's say one of the forum staff creates an account for that specific purpose and at some point in time he gets tagged for something (on his main account). Since this new account is connected with his main one, it will automatically get tagged as well. Therefore, creating new account just for that makes no sense to me and its unnecessary complication.
In the end, you can't 100% prevent an account getting negative feedback due way trust system works.

I get your point which you are talking how can a scammers's thread can serve as a guide to the newcomers but what if we think in different POV, no body knows how to scam someone better than a scammer then its rational to read their guides about how to avoid scams and what to do when someone got scammed,etc.

Apart from scam accusation threads DT score is irrelevant to the knowledge so we don't have to remove those pinned threads unless the data becomes obsolete.

I believe this may explain why Lauda was not banned (again) in 2020:


At the same time, when Lauda plagiarized, there was no rule against plagiarism. Yes, believe it or not, there was no such rule:


Therefore this may be another reason for the absence of the ban: there was no such punishment in 2015, when Lauda plagiarized; the anti-plagiarism rule was implemented in 2016.

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Well, at least, we still have something good from this topic, as you remembered about this user and you decided to remove that negative feedback :)

With the state of the trust system currently, I wouldn't worry too much about this.  Hell, I've been trusted with millions of dollars in trades on this site now (hundreds of millions worth of BTC at today's valuation), and I have negative trust from users that some of you think are honest in spite of never having lost a single satoshi of anyone's, ever...  So I have a hard time thinking about users who may not have my extensive list of trusted feedback being blacklisted by dishonest members who got themselves into DT, usually through things other than real world Bitcoin activity.  When DT became more about politics than safety for end users, it stopped being useful for this sort of blacklisting.

But I also don't think that's very fair to other respectable members.
I say this because some of us can create a very well-developed topic about an important subject for the whole community, and the moderators conclude that it should be a sticky topic.
If only that special account creates these topics, other good topics created by other users will no longer be marked and forgotten.