Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: pooya87 on May 30, 2023, 08:19:34 AM



Title: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: pooya87 on May 30, 2023, 08:19:34 AM
Dedollarization appears to be an unstoppable trend as countries around the world look to reduce their dependence on U.S. currency.
Countries, particularly those in the Global South, are reducing their U.S. dollar reserves, settling cross border transactions in non-dollar currencies, and exploring the formation of new multilateral settlement mechanisms.
A major driver of this trend is Washington’s weaponization of the dollar via expansive sanctions that currently cover 29 percent of the global economy and 40 percent of global oil reserves.
Of course one important fact that responsiblestatecraft got wrong is that dedollarisation didn't start after Russian NATO war, it has been going on for a long time. At least for the past decade countries have been negotiating alternatives and economic blocs and groups like BRICS have been working on building such systems. The main reason for its speed up in 2022 till today is also not sanctions on Russia but the fact that the old world order (the unipolar world) officially died. Consequently the world started dumping the fiat of the lone world hegemony that no longer has the same strength as before.

Some would even say that dedollarisation started after 2008 US economy collapse (which also led to creation of bitcoin).

What's interesting is that these days and possibly this decade looks a lot like the 70's. Similar dedollarisation was happening then too and Europe was also trying to dump the dollar to which US responded by Petrodollar and:
The minutes also clearly stated that such a move would be detrimental to America’s interests and that, if Europe tried it, America would “squash” them. Ultimately, for the plan to succeed Germany would have had to cooperate. But with the Soviet Union looming on its doorstep, it was in no position to cross the U.S.
Same thing US is doing to Europe today, "squashing them". On one hand US has created another "USSR" boogeyman to scare Europe and on the other hand has increased the reliance of Europe on US in energy, weapons, and a lot of other things.

Similar actions are also being taken in Europe
which led certain European countries, particularly France, to begin to exchange their dollars for gold.
France has been making some trades in Yuan, "ditching the dollar".

As such, in just over a 12-month period, countries around the world mustered the courage to begin openly discussing the creation of alternative methods to conduct trade and settlement, as well as reducing their dollar reserves. The trade and settlement role of the dollar is where most of exiting will occur and where the demand for the dollar will fall away more precipitously.

Furthermore, BRICS countries have attracted numerous new member applications over the past year, with Egypt, Turkey, Algeria, and most recently Saudi Arabia showing interest and making declarations about creating a BRICS currency to compete with the dollar.

Many of these countries have been aggressively adding to their gold reserves over the past 13 years, and the size of their purchases has been accelerating, suggesting that perhaps any new currency might be backed by gold. Brazil (which has become increasingly vocal about its displeasure with the U.S. dollar system) and Argentina have started promoting the idea of creating a South American trading block and currency, the sur, similar to the European Union and euro.

The laundry list of dollar alternatives is long and growing daily. Examples include China testing cross-border digital currency settlements with Thailand and the UAE, insisting that sanctioned countries such as Russia, Iran and Venezuela accept yuan as payment for oil. Saudi Arabia is considering doing the same (there are rumors that Saudi is already selling oil for yuan and converting those yuan for gold on the Shanghai exchange). India is also buying some of its Russian oil in UAE dirhams. The simplest method, which is becoming increasingly popular, is bi-lateral agreements using local currencies.

BTW another incentive to dump the dollar which is usually forgotten, is different countries debt which is priced in dollar that has been rising in exchange rate because US manipulates the market and keeps the exchange rate up. Dedollarization fixes that too, which is another incentive for all the countries to dump the dollar.
Much of the global community is cheering, however. A lot of sovereign debt held by the global south is denominated in greenbacks, and an overpriced dollar makes debt service nearly impossible today.

The critical unanswered question is how the U.S. will respond to moves to de-dollarize. Any sudden decrease in U.S. dollar demand could have disastrous consequences for Americans. It could potentially trigger a U.S. dollar crisis leading to very high inflation, or even hyperinflation, and initiate a debt and money printing cycle that could tear apart the social fabric of society.
In short, any U.S. administration would ultimately consider any such de-dollarization moves to be matters of national security.
History has demonstrated that it is exceptionally rare for a transfer of global economic power to take place without major warfare.
A much more important question is whether United States has the military capability to start a war to prevent dedollarization?
From what we've seen over the past 2 decades, and how US military policy has been proxy wars; I'd say NO.
But this doesn't mean we aren't going to see more conflicts like the ongoing Russian-NATO war, this means we will see more proxy wars where US stands back while others fight and destroy their own countries (eg. China-Taiwan).


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: odolvlobo on May 30, 2023, 08:26:29 AM
Dedollarization may be a fact but I think it will be a very slow process. The U.S. dollar is so pervasive as a reserve currency that it has become an integral part of the economic infrastructures of every country in the world.

I think we are looking at decades rather than years.



Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: khiholangkang on May 30, 2023, 09:01:31 AM
De-dollarization is the output of anxiety towards the US which is always arbitrary towards other countries, let alone small countries, we have seen this fact for years.
All conspiracies must be related to the phenomena that are happening in the world today, and they will definitely emerge.

Indeed, the US military today is counted capable of stopping de-dollarization and invites its members in the NATO organization to assist in this matter. But if being aggressive is like saying war outright, that's not typical of the US that I know, they will always make propaganda at one key point of all this de-dollarization movement and slander and then finish them off.
I'm also quite curious, what will the US do to stop de-dollarization, while the US will face elections in 2024, which I think conditions like this will be vulnerable.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Wend on May 30, 2023, 09:41:19 AM
There will be many people who oppose your article who are American fanatics and always consider America more than their parents. But the reality is that de-dollarization is happening even though we don't know if it will succeed or fail. It's really happening, and it's scaring a lot of people. I don't care if the USD is dethroned or not, but I want a fair and balanced world rather than just depending on one great power, and they can do whatever they want. They are also just one country out of 200 other countries, they are not the creators of this world.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Yamane_Keto on May 30, 2023, 09:55:47 AM
How many countries are ready to go far in Dedollarization? 5, 10, 20, will not constitute a significant percentage of the public debt of the United States, and this process will stabilize for many years. During those years, many changes will occur, the most important of which is the globalization that has become threatened after mutual protectionist measures between many countries.

The thing is repeated every several years, which is that when economic conditions are bad, the United States always finds a way to pay off its debts, and this thing will make countries trust the dollar more than any other currency.

Starting with Executive Order No. 11615 on August 15, 1971, without taking any approval from the countries that hold the dollar, yet the countries continued to hold the dollar, the subsequent oil crises came, and the petrodollar became the new standard, and this will continue with every financial crisis.

Let's see what the new standard the US will use to restore confidence in its currency.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: davis196 on May 30, 2023, 10:10:47 AM
This is yet another forum thread about dedollarization(which doesn't add anything new to the discussion). ;D
OK, dedollarization might happen. And so what? The world will be facing another recession or depression(which is part of the cyclic nature of capitalism). Putin's propaganda keeps repeating the same "dedollarization" theory over and over again. I don't mind. I don't give a shit about the US dollar. The global dominance of the USA is heading towards a decline and this is a normal process.
I think that it will be surprisingly easy for many countries around the world to dump the US dollar and the US dominated financial infrastructure.
Weaponizing the US dollar and the financial infrastructure was a big mistake by the Biden administration, but I couldn't care less about the "libtards" in the USA.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: pooya87 on May 30, 2023, 11:05:07 AM
Dedollarization may be a fact but I think it will be a very slow process. The U.S. dollar is so pervasive as a reserve currency that it has become an integral part of the economic infrastructures of every country in the world.

I think we are looking at decades rather than years.
That's correct. Dedollarization is a slow process considering we are talking about a significant change in monetary system that the world is addicted to already. But it definitely won't be "decades". Some US senators and many other politicians, economists, etc. have made statements that usually talk of about 5 years until US dollar completely loses its position in the world.

Let's see what the new standard the US will use to restore confidence in its currency.
I'm very curious to see what they are going to do this time too but there is nothing left for them to do. You see back in the 70's, US was still a superpower and no other country (except USSR) was even close to being half powerful. Today the world is very different, there are many emerging powers that are even stronger that United States in different fields, like China, India, Iran, Brazil, ...

Not to mention in the 70's because US used to be a super power they could force other countries to bend to their orders. Like ordering Saudi regime to adopt Petrodollar scam. Today when they order Saudis to increase oil production to reduce the global price and help decrease US inflation, the Saudi regime outright refuses and there is nothing US can do about that! And Saudi Arabia is basically a US colony!

OK, dedollarization might happen.
It is happening already!

Quote
Putin's propaganda keeps repeating the same "dedollarization" theory over and over again.
Why is it that people think everything that is negative about West must be Putin's propaganda?

Quote
I don't mind. I don't give a shit about the US dollar.
That means you don't understand the significance of it. Dollar is used by all countries for trading and reserve currency. Both US inflation and USD dump affects the global economy. In fact part of the inflation around the world is because of dollar.
Think of it as repetition of 2008 collapse that affected the whole world. The more you rely on USD the more affected your country is going to be. High inflation, unemployment, disruption in all markets,... are some of the effects.

Quote
Weaponizing the US dollar and the financial infrastructure was a big mistake by the Biden administration, but I couldn't care less about the "libtards" in the USA.
Biden didn't start the weaponisation and won't be the last POTUS to do it. They've been doing it ever since WWII.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Shortmaster on May 30, 2023, 11:34:48 AM
Dedollarization appears to be an unstoppable trend as countries around the world look to reduce their dependence on U.S. currency.
Countries, particularly those in the Global South, are reducing their U.S. dollar reserves, settling cross border transactions in non-dollar currencies, and exploring the formation of new multilateral settlement mechanisms.
A major driver of this trend is Washington’s weaponization of the dollar via expansive sanctions that currently cover 29 percent of the global economy and 40 percent of global oil reserves.
Of course one important fact that responsiblestatecraft got wrong is that dedollarisation didn't start after Russian NATO war, it has been going on for a long time. At least for the past decade countries have been negotiating alternatives and economic blocs and groups like BRICS have been working on building such systems. The main reason for its speed up in 2022 till today is also not sanctions on Russia but the fact that the old world order (the unipolar world) officially died. Consequently the world started dumping the fiat of the lone world hegemony that no longer has the same strength as before.

Some would even say that dedollarisation started after 2008 US economy collapse (which also led to creation of bitcoin).

What's interesting is that these days and possibly this decade looks a lot like the 70's. Similar dedollarisation was happening then too and Europe was also trying to dump the dollar to which US responded by Petrodollar and:
The minutes also clearly stated that such a move would be detrimental to America’s interests and that, if Europe tried it, America would “squash” them. Ultimately, for the plan to succeed Germany would have had to cooperate. But with the Soviet Union looming on its doorstep, it was in no position to cross the U.S.
Same thing US is doing to Europe today, "squashing them". On one hand US has created another "USSR" boogeyman to scare Europe and on the other hand has increased the reliance of Europe on US in energy, weapons, and a lot of other things.

Similar actions are also being taken in Europe
which led certain European countries, particularly France, to begin to exchange their dollars for gold.
France has been making some trades in Yuan, "ditching the dollar".

As such, in just over a 12-month period, countries around the world mustered the courage to begin openly discussing the creation of alternative methods to conduct trade and settlement, as well as reducing their dollar reserves. The trade and settlement role of the dollar is where most of exiting will occur and where the demand for the dollar will fall away more precipitously.

Furthermore, BRICS countries have attracted numerous new member applications over the past year, with Egypt, Turkey, Algeria, and most recently Saudi Arabia showing interest and making declarations about creating a BRICS currency to compete with the dollar.

Many of these countries have been aggressively adding to their gold reserves over the past 13 years, and the size of their purchases has been accelerating, suggesting that perhaps any new currency might be backed by gold. Brazil (which has become increasingly vocal about its displeasure with the U.S. dollar system) and Argentina have started promoting the idea of creating a South American trading block and currency, the sur, similar to the European Union and euro.

The laundry list of dollar alternatives is long and growing daily. Examples include China testing cross-border digital currency settlements with Thailand and the UAE, insisting that sanctioned countries such as Russia, Iran and Venezuela accept yuan as payment for oil. Saudi Arabia is considering doing the same (there are rumors that Saudi is already selling oil for yuan and converting those yuan for gold on the Shanghai exchange). India is also buying some of its Russian oil in UAE dirhams. The simplest method, which is becoming increasingly popular, is bi-lateral agreements using local currencies.

BTW another incentive to dump the dollar which is usually forgotten, is different countries debt which is priced in dollar that has been rising in exchange rate because US manipulates the market and keeps the exchange rate up. Dedollarization fixes that too, which is another incentive for all the countries to dump the dollar.
Much of the global community is cheering, however. A lot of sovereign debt held by the global south is denominated in greenbacks, and an overpriced dollar makes debt service nearly impossible today.

The critical unanswered question is how the U.S. will respond to moves to de-dollarize. Any sudden decrease in U.S. dollar demand could have disastrous consequences for Americans. It could potentially trigger a U.S. dollar crisis leading to very high inflation, or even hyperinflation, and initiate a debt and money printing cycle that could tear apart the social fabric of society.
In short, any U.S. administration would ultimately consider any such de-dollarization moves to be matters of national security.
History has demonstrated that it is exceptionally rare for a transfer of global economic power to take place without major warfare.
A much more important question is whether United States has the military capability to start a war to prevent dedollarization?
From what we've seen over the past 2 decades, and how US military policy has been proxy wars; I'd say NO.
But this doesn't mean we aren't going to see more conflicts like the ongoing Russian-NATO war, this means we will see more proxy wars where US stands back while others fight and destroy their own countries (eg. China-Taiwan).



The next 2 years Fed will cut rates it will bring inflation hyperinflation then deflation and the final plan is USA superior world dominance.
Bricks Nation Will shine until the gold shines bricks sounds like sales trick for gold.
I don't belive any bricks Nation success and until markets still dominated by USD then USA will be the power of the world for long time.
The new currency USDC Will just replace the old but it's still dollar.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Bellarg on May 30, 2023, 11:42:59 AM
It's only the beggining of long enough process. Will see if it go further or not


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: stompix on May 30, 2023, 12:36:53 PM
This is yet another forum thread about dedollarization(which doesn't add anything new to the discussion). ;D


Yeah, because desperation is here!

In case somebody is still wondering why OP is so full of hate against the us dollar, let me show you two pics to clear the confusion:
This is how depolarization and the fall of the dollar looks from Iran, Op's country:


https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/30/wdvDd.png
From 3700 rial for a dollar to 51000 in 6 years.

Gdp per capita in 6 years of sanctions:

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/30/wdkVI.png


120th in the world by GDP, basically the poorest of the poor, a country with more gas that the whole world but which must burn mazut to power up the electricity grid while shutting schools to not kill everyone from pollution, a country that can't even pay for basic food imports unless the seller takes payments in oil.

This is what dollarization and stupid basij propaganda look like in reality, poverty, poverty and poverty!


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: NotATether on May 30, 2023, 01:18:45 PM
BRICS countries did announce that they are going to create a new currency to usurp the dollar but it's a long way from happening. You can't just mint a token (pun intended) and expect everyone to use it.

The result won't be much different from the tokens on Ethereum, Tron, BSC.

So they announced that they are going to use a "basket" of their own currencies as a means of payment among themselves. It's going to be used mainly in (country) trading. But even this is a long way from happening currently. That's not to deny that these countries are pissed at the US economy - it's hard not to be, considering how the rising inflation and more recently the looming default are screwing over a lot of people at the moment - including US residents.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: o48o on May 30, 2023, 05:32:06 PM
Why is it that people think everything that is negative about West must be Putin's propaganda?
Dude you just literally said this.

Quote
Same thing US is doing to Europe today, "squashing them". On one hand US has created another "USSR" boogeyman to scare Europe and on the other hand has increased the reliance of Europe on US in energy, weapons, and a lot of other things.
It's directly from Kremlin book of propaganda and you are not even trying to hide it. How was that fair and balanced view of anything?

That quoted part wasn't even critique against US, you made it up. US didn't create the Russian invasion. Russia attacked to Ukraine so get your facts straight. US just understands that if they would not help us now this humanitarian catastrophe might escalate to WW3. Because if Russia succesfully conquered Ukraine, they are not stopping there. We who live closer to this situation and have our own history with Russia, we know how they operate. So maybe we understand the bigger picture and stakes in this little better.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: darkangel11 on May 30, 2023, 06:08:46 PM
BRICS countries did announce that they are going to create a new currency to usurp the dollar but it's a long way from happening. You can't just mint a token (pun intended) and expect everyone to use it.

The result won't be much different from the tokens on Ethereum, Tron, BSC.

So they announced that they are going to use a "basket" of their own currencies as a means of payment among themselves. It's going to be used mainly in (country) trading. But even this is a long way from happening currently. That's not to deny that these countries are pissed at the US economy - it's hard not to be, considering how the rising inflation and more recently the looming default are screwing over a lot of people at the moment - including US residents.

OP's views may not be completely accurate but something is going on with the dollar, we can't deny it. Another fact is that 10 years ago, countries weren't looking for alternatives the way they're doing it now.
Let's drop poor Iran for now and Russia that is obviously (judging by its propaganda and issued threats) at war with half of the world right now. Brazil is no longer using the dollar, UAE and Saudi Arabia don't even want to talk with Biden and inflation in the US is definitely not transitory.
We may not see the dollar lose its position as a world reserve currency, but it can become much weaker in the coming years and weak dollar is good for bitcoin, so I'm planning to watch this with a supply of popcorn. Let's see how the first hawk of the FED handles this situation.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Zaguru12 on May 30, 2023, 08:47:56 PM
We may not see the dollar lose its position as a world reserve currency, but it can become much weaker in the coming years and weak dollar is good for bitcoin, so I'm planning to watch this with a supply of popcorn. Let's see how the first hawk of the FED handles this situation.

I would say this is exactly what countries like China and Russia want. The more the dollar loses value as a central or international reserve currency the more the American government loses its political against other countries. Many countries have started to opt into assets that have store of value like gold and this where others could prioritize the bitcoin too.

But one thing i see in this dedollarization is that as countries are moving away from dollars they are not looking towards one country currency like the yen. Because of they do then this brings power to another country and this is just similar to what is happening now. So I am of the belief that this propaganda is just to weaken the dollar but to overthrown it as a central currency will take longer time to be achieved.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: someone703 on May 30, 2023, 11:08:20 PM
Dedollarization is indeed a real phenomenon that is being discussed and pursued by various countries. The desire to diversify reserve holdings and reduce dependence on a single currency is driven by the goal of reducing vulnerability to potential economic disruptions or geopolitical pressures. Many will think of promoting a multipolar world where power and influence are more evenly distributed among nations. It is also understandable why everyone is aiming for a fairer and more equal life, but this issue also needs to be considered more.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: coupable on May 30, 2023, 11:49:31 PM
I agree with most of the opinions that there is a global trend (since the sixties of the last century after Nixon's admission that America does not have enough gold to cover all of its dollar mints) to reduce the power of the dollar and why not get rid of it (a utopian dream). However, I do not agree at all with the optimistic views that this may succeed despite the important steps taken by some countries and entities in order to achieve this ; it was not easy for U.S.A to establish the power of the dollar, which requires terrorizing the world with two nuclear bombs, it will never be easy to remove that power from the dollar unless we remove America's dominant power over the world.
In a statement to one of the economists, he stated that the United States does not pay attention to all attempts to get rid of the dollar because it knows that it is almost impossible (at least now) for them to do so, since international exchanges require both parties to be satisfied with the currency used, which cannot happen with Most countries in the world that do not want to replace the dollar.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Poker Player on May 31, 2023, 03:14:13 AM

In case somebody is still wondering why OP is so full of hate against the us dollar, let me show you two pics to clear the confusion:
This is how depolarization and the fall of the dollar looks from Iran, Op's country:

...

This is what dollarization and stupid basij propaganda look like in reality, poverty, poverty and poverty!

Lol. You guys used to get on well with each other, right?  ;D

Regarding the subject in question, it is true that we hear a lot more nowadays of various countries proposing an alternative to the dollar and even starting to make some trades with alternative currencies. To what extent they may succeed remains to be seen. On the other hand we saw with the war in Ukraine and the high inflation how there was a high demand for dollars as a safe haven so the supposed de-dollarization, at least for the time being, seems to have little impact.

The pathetic thing is that the dollar is still the currency with the highest demand today, not because it is very good, but because it is less bad, and in some cases much less bad than the other currencies.



Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: DrBeer on May 31, 2023, 07:16:54 AM
......

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Reminds me of another topic - "199,000 companies in Germany went bankrupt due to the energy crisis." Where the author is very unobtrusive, as if hinting that this is all a consequence of the refusal of gas from the country of the terrorist.
As a result, everyone laughed, except for the author of the topic, and the author of this "masterpiece", after a couple of answers, decided to run away from the topic so as not to be completely ridiculed :)

I consider this topic a sequel to the above article.
To the author of the topic - many thanks for the laughter and cheerful mood :)

PS I consider the author of the topic to be the discoverer of a new type of stand-up - "Petrosyan's Political Humor" :)


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Alpha Marine on May 31, 2023, 08:14:54 AM
De-dollarization is not something that is going to happen anytime soon. It might happen sometime in the future but not today. This is not something that can just happen in a couple of years.
The main reason I feel this is going to take decades is because there has to be a currency that people trust. a currency that is relatively stable like the dollar. Countries don't just wake up and start using a particular currency as their federal reserve currency.

I don't think there's going to be any war between countries about this. It's only going to be an economic battle. It's still going to be the same old international politics.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Doan Ha on May 31, 2023, 08:17:59 AM
Quote
Since March of this year, discussions on "de-dollarization" in the international community have heated up sharply. According to Google data, the global search index on "Dedollarization" (Dedollarization) reached a perfect score of "100" in April this year, and the relevant discussions have reached the highest level since the data was available in 2004.

The issue of "de-dollarization" has been hotly debated internationally. The bearish sentiment on the US dollar has heated up, and the prices of gold and cryptocurrencies have risen. We believe that the background of this round of "de-dollarization" craze is quite complicated. So my personal point of view is to take some precautions. Of course, seeing that many rich people buy gold in kilograms, I want to say that this is not a very wise choice. People don't put all their eggs in one basket, so Bitcoin is also one of my choices. After all, the original intention of Bitcoin is to fight against the US dollar's global harvesting of assets.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Pierre 2 on May 31, 2023, 08:33:14 AM
I agree with main dedollarization argument. I think everyone in the world wants American hegemony on financial markets to end. So we will observe very strange dedollarization movements in coming years for sure. Its gonna be very slow process - I think if you are like 20-30 years old you probably will not see American hegemony ending. I also think this move may totally fail: Just ask consumers around the world about how they calculate their expenses, wages. Local currencies are very very unimportant. Most world governments look at usd or euro while fixing purchasing power in their own country. So dedollarization itself can become scam in coming years.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Smack That Ace on May 31, 2023, 08:53:05 AM
I agree with main dedollarization argument. I think everyone in the world wants American hegemony on financial markets to end. So we will observe very strange dedollarization movements in coming years for sure. Its gonna be very slow process - I think if you are like 20-30 years old you probably will not see American hegemony ending. I also think this move may totally fail: Just ask consumers around the world about how they calculate their expenses, wages. Local currencies are very very unimportant. Most world governments look at usd or euro while fixing purchasing power in their own country. So dedollarization itself can become scam in coming years.

Just because we were born and raised in a world where America is at the top and in control of everything, and we always think in our heads that they are the strongest country and will never be defeated. But if we take the time to learn about world history, we will see before the US that many countries used to stand in the position that the US is, and they have also been defeated and replaced over time.

To be fair, no one can last forever or will always be on top forever. The US has brought down other countries to become No. 1, and that will happen again in the future, but the problem is we will never know when that will happen.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Fiatless on May 31, 2023, 09:37:58 AM
There will be many people who oppose your article who are American fanatics and always consider America more than their parents. But the reality is that de-dollarization is happening even though we don't know if it will succeed or fail. It's really happening, and it's scaring a lot of people. I don't care if the USD is dethroned or not, but I want a fair and balanced world rather than just depending on one great power, and they can do whatever they want. They are also just one country out of 200 other countries, they are not the creators of this world.
Variety they say is the spice of life. Let us have competitors that will offer other nations some incentive to join their financial bloc. I don't want the dollar to be dethroned but I want another currency to rise so that the weaponization of currencies will cease. How are we sure that China or Russia will not be more draconian if they succeed to dethrone the Dollars? We have been hearing this rumor for a long time maybe the 15th BRICS summit in South Africa will put an end to this speculation.

It might be difficult to implement a policy where every nation will be allowed to trade or make payments with their local currency without restrictions. This is because politics have become the main reason for this economic war between these world powers. Using Bitcoin for International trade might reduce all these needless superiority wars that are causing more harm than good in the global economic space.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Ucy on May 31, 2023, 09:40:07 AM
In regards to the last part of your post.
I think, intelligence rather than force could also be used by dominant country to assert its dominance. Even though a more dominant force can be a sign of higher intelligence.
The two are main ways to know which country's currency will remain or become dominant. I would have given it to Russia but she doesn't seem to be interested in strong currency or imposing her will on others. I think the Head isn't that ambitious. It's more about the preservation of past glory or holding on to the past. A mere destruction of the statues of their past heroes would piss him off more than insults from weak Nations




Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: stompix on May 31, 2023, 10:35:40 AM
Lol. You guys used to get on well with each other, right?  ;D

Not really, but it went all south when those stupid Americans with their stupid garbage American weapons that can't hit a thing turned the former leader of ISIS, my bad IRCG, (same shit) into kotlet. Then it went around the globe and further south when instead of downing a F35 as they claimed it turned the next day they hit a civilian plane with their mighty weapons. Since I made fun of him over and over he ended up ignoring me!

But I like to think of it as Yin and Yang.
He comes with the propaganda, I come with facts and debunk it.
He spills venom right and left about Europeans dying of hunger, cold, thirst and raccoon bites, I came with positivity.  ;D
Isn't life fun? Of course, not if you're executed if you wear jeans in a public place!  ;D

Regarding the subject in question, it is true that we hear a lot more nowadays of various countries proposing an alternative to the dollar and even starting to make some trades with alternative currencies. To what extent they may succeed remains to be seen.

The weird part is that I don't see the change right here, exactly by the same people claiming the dollar is dead, I mean everyone is in:
Quote
Signature Campaign > Up to $x/week
Isn't weird to hate the dollar, despise it but still agree to get paid by its value?  ;D
There is propaganda, and there is reality!



Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: kryptqnick on May 31, 2023, 11:12:09 AM
The current war is between Russia and Ukraine. Calling it a "Russia-NATO" war is not only inaccurate, but also taking away all the subjectivity of Ukraine in a completely unjust way because the vast majority of the fighters are Ukrainians and same goes for civilian casualties. NATO countries are giving a lot of military support to Ukraine, but no NATO armies are actually deploying troops and fighting against Russia in any capacity, which once again makes the formulation incorrect.
As for dedollarization, it really doesn't seem that countries are giving up on the dollar on a significant scale right now to talk about the USD losing its leading position.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: bluebit25 on May 31, 2023, 11:44:14 AM
(...)
A much more important question is whether United States has the military capability to start a war to prevent dedollarization?
From what we've seen over the past 2 decades, and how US military policy has been proxy wars; I'd say NO.
But this doesn't mean we aren't going to see more conflicts like the ongoing Russian-NATO war, this means we will see more proxy wars where US stands back while others fight and destroy their own countries (eg. China-Taiwan).
I cannot speculate on the possibility of the US military starting a war to prevent the dollarization of foreign currencies. It is worth noting that the US military has historically favored a strategy of proxy warfare, whereby allies or client states are supported in lieu of direct intervention. Nevertheless, it is possible that we may see more conflicts where the US is involved in a supporting role while other parties do the fighting. Ultimately, the decision to engage in military action would depend on a variety of complex political, economic, and security factors.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Bitcoin2009 on May 31, 2023, 01:03:35 PM
It must be admitted that currently the position of the dollar is still too strong when compared to any other currency, even when European countries use EURO with the main goal of becoming the largest currency, it turns out that it has decreased in value with the dollar, and in my opinion, as long as the USA is still a strong country, of course they will protect the dollar. .


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Smartprofit on May 31, 2023, 02:50:45 PM
In regards to the last part of your post.
I think, intelligence rather than force could also be used by dominant country to assert its dominance. Even though a more dominant force can be a sign of higher intelligence.
The two are main ways to know which country's currency will remain or become dominant. I would have given it to Russia but she doesn't seem to be interested in strong currency or imposing her will on others. I think the Head isn't that ambitious. It's more about the preservation of past glory or holding on to the past. A mere destruction of the statues of their past heroes would piss him off more than insults from weak Nations




It's not that Russia is not interested in a strong ruble. 

As a result of international economic sanctions, Russia's foreign exchange earnings from the sale of hydrocarbons and other commodities are falling. 

At the same time, there is a growing need for expenditures denominated in the national currency (Russian rubles).  This is due to military spending and the cost of restructuring the Russian industry, which has been hit hard by international sanctions. 

Therefore, the depreciation of the Russian ruble against the US dollar is an objective process.  In the near future, we will probably see the rate of 1 US dollar = 100 Russian rubles.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: wajik-tempe on May 31, 2023, 03:47:14 PM
Dedollarization may be a fact but I think it will be a very slow process. The U.S. dollar is so pervasive as a reserve currency that it has become an integral part of the economic infrastructures of every country in the world.

I think we are looking at decades rather than years.



I agree with your point of view. Given the global financial system's complexity and interdependence, dedollarization is a long process that requires careful planning, coordination, and consensus across countries. While there is a rising interest in alternatives to the US dollar, the move away from dollar supremacy is likely to take a long time.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Frankolala on May 31, 2023, 04:17:46 PM
De-dollarization is already happening and nobody will notice it because it has small or no significant on US economy presently,but I believe that at the passage of time and the failure for countries to use dollar for most global transactions, it will be noticed.

I believe one thing that is constant in life is changes which can contribute to people dumping the USD for an alternative currency due to the fact that US is always manipulating the dollar value for their own benefit. If countries like Saudi Arabia is selling crude for Yuan and convert it to gold with some other countries,then I think that there is an underground plan going on between this set of countries to shy away from US dollar.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: slapper on May 31, 2023, 04:24:47 PM
This discussion is like unravelling the threads of an intricate tapestry. Of course, the story of dedollarization predates the recent spat between NATO and Russia. It's an exciting mix of economic theory, political manoeuvring, and—dare I say it?—financial melodrama. Seeing emerging economic blocs like BRICS seek for alternatives is like seeing a sequel to The Avengers, with each member country bringing its own special set of strengths to the table. It really drives home the need of teamwork to me. The haste to dedollarize is reminiscent of the resurgence of a disco classic from the 1970s.

It's plain to see that we're speeding along 'Dedollarization Boulevard' like a hyperactive youngster on candy. The coordinated dance of countries diversifying their dollar reserves, seeking non-dollar currencies, and even exploring gold-backed currencies is impressive. The music just isn't as upbeat this time around. And my, dedollarization is really going to cause a stir. A question worth a trillion dollars is how the United States will react to these developments. It's impossible to exclude the chance that this will spark a crisis in the U.S. dollar or widespread societal unrest. It would appear that we are all just riding along on this roller coaster, not knowing where it will end up.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: cabron on May 31, 2023, 06:43:31 PM
The rate of Yuan being used in trade is growing as a result of dedollarization means its gradually working. It is however worrisome because not every country sees Chinese Yuan to be different from USD as global reserve currency . Its still going to be owned by a country whose also capable of controlling and Yuan is not a neutral currency for all.

While dedolarization is happening, something is also brewing to happen as currencies all over the world are likely to turn into digital because countries are developing CBDCs.

China opening its door to crypto thru Hongkong can be the start of BTC jumping onboard to be among the alternative for global reserve currency. Tiny steps for BTC to dominate them all.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: southerngentuk on May 31, 2023, 07:01:41 PM
There are many countries eager to reduce the dominance of the US dollar in the global financial system, but the process is complex and faces significant hurdles. As for the role of the US dollar as a major reserve currency, I think it has evolved over the decades and provides stability, liquidity, and a widely accepted medium of exchange for currencies. international trade. Moving away from the dollar requires alternative currencies or mechanisms to achieve similar levels of trust and acceptance. So de-dollarization efforts can continue, but it is difficult to predict the exact trajectory and outcome. After all, as with any major financial or economic shift, the effects of de-dollarization will likely be nuanced and vary across different regions and sectors.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: BIT-BENDER on May 31, 2023, 07:30:52 PM
Dedollarization may be a fact but I think it will be a very slow process. The U.S. dollar is so pervasive as a reserve currency that it has become an integral part of the economic infrastructures of every country in the world.

I think we are looking at decades rather than years.


That's true, yes it's possible to have a world where the dollars is not dominant but the US dollar has held it's dominant spot for a very long time so it would not be an easy process for it to get unrooted from that sport.

Although it may be possible but it won't be another nation's currency that would be taking that spot I believe the value of exchange may be pegged at natural resources like what the late Libia presented wanted it to be Gold, this may still be possible.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: goldkingcoiner on June 01, 2023, 12:14:20 AM
The main effect this is having on the world is the further adoption of Bitcoin. Once people understand that their USD is becoming worthless, they will trade it in for Bitcoin. Time and time again, Bitcoin has proven itself as an amazing hedge against all kinds of inflation. Whether by nature manipulated or not.

I see this as an amazing opportunity. Anyone who is investing into Bitcoin now is going to wish they bought even more.

Once the whole CBDC timeline flops, as it will, because it goes against everything Blockchain stands for, then and only then will people start understanding how important a decentralized and unregulatable store of value actually is, in reality.

This is the best time for Hodlers.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Darker45 on June 01, 2023, 01:11:42 AM
It is here. It has been here. And for decades already. It isn't something that arrives all at once. Just like China's yuan that took decades before it finally competed against the USD, dedollarization is going to be a long process. And the movement won't be linear. There will be ups and downs.

I have watched old videos, some taken way back mid-1900s, and they were already talking about the weakening or even the fall of the US dollar. So far, the US dollar remains strong until today.

In my country, the dollar is growing stronger against the local currency. Well, it may be largely caused by the poor economic management within, but it must also speak of the continuing influence of the USD.

To be honest, I think I'd rather that USD remains more powerful than the Chinese yuan. Both are dirty, of course, but I guess the latter is much dirtier.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Faisal2202 on June 01, 2023, 04:09:46 AM
A much more important question is whether United States has the military capability to start a war to prevent dedollarization?
From what we've seen over the past 2 decades, and how US military policy has been proxy wars; I'd say NO.
But this doesn't mean we aren't going to see more conflicts like the ongoing Russian-NATO war, this means we will see more proxy wars where US stands back while others fight and destroy their own countries (eg. China-Taiwan).
I do not know what are your beliefs and feelings against the USA, but i am not a USA citizen and from what i have heard and read from the news in my cycle, and from what i have learned so far and from my experience, the USA will really find a way to squash them all as you have said France is already facing consequences and Russia has also faced some when they tried to take INR instead of US dollars and then they have no other means to use those INR, and now they have useless Indian currency. (source (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-05/russia-says-it-has-billions-of-indian-rupees-that-it-can-t-use)). After using INR now they have shifted to Yuan and i think they will face the same again. The point is, the US economy is very strong despite the fact that they are facing several banking crises and debt ceiling problems but eventually, they will overcome them and will come up with such the bold moves that they made when Saddam Hussain declare to use the Pond as a payment method instead of US dollar in Iraq for the trade of their Oil and US invaded Iraq after that with the slogan (mission name " freedom of Iraq" something like that)

I hope you get the answer to your question about the military capability of the US to start a war against dedollarization. But the interesting thing or climax is, at that time it was only one country and now its a group of atomic countries which have bound to one aim, and in my point the US will not make the mistake of using military equipment against dedollarization scheme instead they will play politics and other things to deal it.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: DrBeer on June 01, 2023, 08:24:18 AM
A much more important question is whether United States has the military capability to start a war to prevent dedollarization?
From what we've seen over the past 2 decades, and how US military policy has been proxy wars; I'd say NO.
But this doesn't mean we aren't going to see more conflicts like the ongoing Russian-NATO war, this means we will see more proxy wars where US stands back while others fight and destroy their own countries (eg. China-Taiwan).
I do not know what are your beliefs and feelings against the USA, but i am not a USA citizen and from what i have heard and read from the news in my cycle, and from what i have learned so far and from my experience, the USA will really find a way to squash them all as you have said France is already facing consequences and Russia has also faced some when they tried to take INR instead of US dollars and then they have no other means to use those INR, and now they have useless Indian currency. (source (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-05/russia-says-it-has-billions-of-indian-rupees-that-it-can-t-use)). After using INR now they have shifted to Yuan and i think they will face the same again. The point is, the US economy is very strong despite the fact that they are facing several banking crises and debt ceiling problems but eventually, they will overcome them and will come up with such the bold moves that they made when Saddam Hussain declare to use the Pond as a payment method instead of US dollar in Iraq for the trade of their Oil and US invaded Iraq after that with the slogan (mission name " freedom of Iraq" something like that)

I hope you get the answer to your question about the military capability of the US to start a war against dedollarization. But the interesting thing or climax is, at that time it was only one country and now its a group of atomic countries which have bound to one aim, and in my point the US will not make the mistake of using military equipment against dedollarization scheme instead they will play politics and other things to deal it.


Remember that for the supporters of "de-dollarization" - if you have facts, you give arguments, you can soberly assess the situation, express your thoughts and think - you are definitely a "pro-American puppet" and "adorer of the USA" :)
I have been laughing at these dedollarizers for many years and probably decades. People live in anger and envy towards the USA (or rather towards the free world, the world of opportunities), constantly inventing fairy tales for themselves about the "collapse of the USA". But at the same time, very often they themselves live in countries where there are no prospects, where everything is at the level, if not of the Stone Age, then of the past spiral of progress, where power is usurped and there are no freedoms. This, of course, infuriates them, and they have to self-satisfy with self-hypnosis about the collapse of the United States. Although they could take and make their country better than the United States. But this is a difficult path, you have to work, think, fight... And a simple neurosimulation is simple and does not require effort :)

PS Bringing them some facts is useless :)


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Shortmaster on June 03, 2023, 06:15:07 PM
A much more important question is whether United States has the military capability to start a war to prevent dedollarization?
From what we've seen over the past 2 decades, and how US military policy has been proxy wars; I'd say NO.
But this doesn't mean we aren't going to see more conflicts like the ongoing Russian-NATO war, this means we will see more proxy wars where US stands back while others fight and destroy their own countries (eg. China-Taiwan).
I do not know what are your beliefs and feelings against the USA, but i am not a USA citizen and from what i have heard and read from the news in my cycle, and from what i have learned so far and from my experience, the USA will really find a way to squash them all as you have said France is already facing consequences and Russia has also faced some when they tried to take INR instead of US dollars and then they have no other means to use those INR, and now they have useless Indian currency. (source (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-05/russia-says-it-has-billions-of-indian-rupees-that-it-can-t-use)). After using INR now they have shifted to Yuan and i think they will face the same again. The point is, the US economy is very strong despite the fact that they are facing several banking crises and debt ceiling problems but eventually, they will overcome them and will come up with such the bold moves that they made when Saddam Hussain declare to use the Pond as a payment method instead of US dollar in Iraq for the trade of their Oil and US invaded Iraq after that with the slogan (mission name " freedom of Iraq" something like that)

I hope you get the answer to your question about the military capability of the US to start a war against dedollarization. But the interesting thing or climax is, at that time it was only one country and now its a group of atomic countries which have bound to one aim, and in my point the US will not make the mistake of using military equipment against dedollarization scheme instead they will play politics and other things to deal it.


Remember that for the supporters of "de-dollarization" - if you have facts, you give arguments, you can soberly assess the situation, express your thoughts and think - you are definitely a "pro-American puppet" and "adorer of the USA" :)
I have been laughing at these dedollarizers for many years and probably decades. People live in anger and envy towards the USA (or rather towards the free world, the world of opportunities), constantly inventing fairy tales for themselves about the "collapse of the USA". But at the same time, very often they themselves live in countries where there are no prospects, where everything is at the level, if not of the Stone Age, then of the past spiral of progress, where power is usurped and there are no freedoms. This, of course, infuriates them, and they have to self-satisfy with self-hypnosis about the collapse of the United States. Although they could take and make their country better than the United States. But this is a difficult path, you have to work, think, fight... And a simple neurosimulation is simple and does not require effort :)

PS Bringing them some facts is useless :)



Let's look at facts, the USA wall Street heavily in china and emerging markets they have opened door for west capital to flow in asian markets.
But what they get on return ? Off course USD ...so while everybody getting rid of dollars the richest guys receiving your dollars.
Investors buy asia china currency and assets and everything...for their dollars.
For me it's clear the richest elite the top ruling class is after your dollars and after they can say well guys we cant do nothing about china just crashing you Lost but thanks all of you for the dollars.
And then they say....allright we got all ur dollars...let's make it dollar Strong again 😁.
Im not falling in devils tricks


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Joshapat on June 04, 2023, 04:31:43 AM
The dollar is the world's strongest currency, almost all countries will save foreign exchange in dollars, this is what makes the dollar's influence very strong and dominant, of course we hope there will be no economic problems with the USA because it will have a negative impact globally.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: DrBeer on June 04, 2023, 10:41:09 AM
Let's look at facts, the USA wall Street heavily in china and emerging markets they have opened door for west capital to flow in asian markets.
But what they get on return ? Off course USD ...so while everybody getting rid of dollars the richest guys receiving your dollars.
Investors buy asia china currency and assets and everything...for their dollars.
For me it's clear the richest elite the top ruling class is after your dollars and after they can say well guys we cant do nothing about china just crashing you Lost but thanks all of you for the dollars.
And then they say....allright we got all ur dollars...let's make it dollar Strong again 😁.
Im not falling in devils tricks

Instead of a thousand words :)
All these "fighters against the dollar", such as India, China, Russia - to the squeals of less intelligent supporters of the idea of "dedolarization" try to sell their services and goods - for dollars. The elites of these countries - keep their money (often stolen from their countries and people), in dollars. Russia sold oil and gas for pennies, and in rupees and yuan, making plans to then exchange them for dollars. The "friends of Russia", at this point said: "No, you will not have dollars, we need them ourselves, and you are not allowed to sell them at all :)
And dollars are needed by India, China and Russia not for beauty. This is the only way to buy high-quality goods, services and technologies on the world market. Yuan, rupees, reals, rubles - no one needs them, except for those who are satisfied with low-quality goods, which low-quality producers, who do not care what currency they sell for, will gladly sell :)


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Hispo on June 04, 2023, 04:54:46 PM
Let's look at facts, the USA wall Street heavily in china and emerging markets they have opened door for west capital to flow in asian markets.
But what they get on return ? Off course USD ...so while everybody getting rid of dollars the richest guys receiving your dollars.
Investors buy asia china currency and assets and everything...for their dollars.
For me it's clear the richest elite the top ruling class is after your dollars and after they can say well guys we cant do nothing about china just crashing you Lost but thanks all of you for the dollars.
And then they say....allright we got all ur dollars...let's make it dollar Strong again 😁.
Im not falling in devils tricks

Instead of a thousand words :)
All these "fighters against the dollar", such as India, China, Russia - to the squeals of less intelligent supporters of the idea of "dedolarization" try to sell their services and goods - for dollars. The elites of these countries - keep their money (often stolen from their countries and people), in dollars. Russia sold oil and gas for pennies, and in rupees and yuan, making plans to then exchange them for dollars. The "friends of Russia", at this point said: "No, you will not have dollars, we need them ourselves, and you are not allowed to sell them at all :)
And dollars are needed by India, China and Russia not for beauty. This is the only way to buy high-quality goods, services and technologies on the world market. Yuan, rupees, reals, rubles - no one needs them, except for those who are satisfied with low-quality goods, which low-quality producers, who do not care what currency they sell for, will gladly sell :)


I am on the side of those who are skeptical on a widespread replacement of the dollar as reserve currency around the world, I believe it is possible but not so easy as some picture it here on the forum and on Twitter.

Your point of view on the relation between the currency and the quality of the products one can adquire in the international markets is interesting though, I had not thought about it, because in my mind, even though there are indeed bad quality products in Asia, Latin America or Africa, I have considered those markets also having some production of good quality, depending on the resources the country has. Venezuela/Colombia has high quality coffee and chocolate. China can be competitive in technology with brands like Huawei and Xiaomi.

The problem for the challengers of the dollar is the fact Chinese companies won't take pesos/Bolivars and Colombians/Venezuelans won't recognize a Yuan bill as easily as a 100$ Franklin.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Hamza2424 on June 04, 2023, 05:49:38 PM
Dedollorization hmm, many of the posts indicate that it's a slow process I would like to say nope this is not at all a slow process, Dollarization was a slow process but currently many countries are changing their trade policy with friendly countries and converting their trading transaction to good by goods and Local currency trade.

Russia is capturing the Dollar market fastly and China is also trying to manipulate the Dollar trading system across the globe where it has deep investments and business relationships. More importantly, the Gulf was the biggest supporter of the Dollar but now Saudi Arabia is stepping back, and other states as well. Fuel trade in Dollar was the backbone of the USD but now it's getting weaker + the recent debt limit increase haha that was the last move to destroy the USD market.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: coupable on June 04, 2023, 09:08:05 PM
Dedollorization hmm, many of the posts indicate that it's a slow process I would like to say nope this is not at all a slow process, Dollarization was a slow process but currently many countries are changing their trade policy with friendly countries and converting their trading transaction to good by goods and Local currency trade.

Relatively speaking, this is somewhat true. However, the wave of abandoning the dollar actually began during Trump's term after announcing an economic war on China, followed by the Corona crisis, which helped impose a global economic recession, then the war in Ukraine, which isolated Russia due to the sanctions that were imposed on it. In this way, events seem to accelerate a little, but we do not forget that during the 2008 financial crisis, the demand for the dollar rose in a record way, given that it was one of the safest assets at the time, and this, of course, is possible again.
Perhaps the dollar is going through its most difficult periods, but some important elements must be taken into account, such as that all countries that establish international trade exchanges in other currencies, in turn, have a large part of their reserves in foreign currencies are in dollars. China is also the largest keeper of US bonds, which are in dollars, which means it is not in its interest to see the dollar collapse. Saudi Arabia can only change a small part of its exchanges (mainly with China) in another currency in dollars, since the United States is the largest importer of Saudi oil and the first source of weapons that Saudi Arabia buys, and all this cannot be done in any currency other than the dollar.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Mauser on June 05, 2023, 08:22:51 AM

A much more important question is whether United States has the military capability to start a war to prevent dedollarization?
From what we've seen over the past 2 decades, and how US military policy has been proxy wars; I'd say NO.
But this doesn't mean we aren't going to see more conflicts like the ongoing Russian-NATO war, this means we will see more proxy wars where US stands back while others fight and destroy their own countries (eg. China-Taiwan).

I don't think the USA is considering to start a war to make sure that the Dollar remains the number one currency in the world. First of all USA is supporting Ukraine heavily with advanced weapons and doesn't have the stockpile for any major war. They would need to  build up their missile and javelin stockpile first. Secondly who should the USA attack to secure their power? There isn't one country that they can attack alone to increase the strength of the dollar. Let's say USA attacks China, then the international community would work together to impose sanctions on USA and that would hurt the dollar even more. The strength of currencies is not going to be determined by real wars, but rather by trade wars. For years China and USA have already tried to manipulate each other's currency, that trend will likely intensify.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: doomloop on June 05, 2023, 11:24:40 AM
The dollar is the world's strongest currency, almost all countries will save foreign exchange in dollars, this is what makes the dollar's influence very strong and dominant, of course we hope there will be no economic problems with the USA because it will have a negative impact globally.
We can't really say anything about the future and what might happen later. There is absolutely no doubt that the US Dollar is the strongest currency in the world at the moment, but whether it will stay at the top for very long or not is what we will see soon. Some nations have already started making international trades using their own currencies instead of using USD and if that continues, it will surely have some effect.

China and Russia were the very first countries who started this movement and some other countries also followed suit, if all countries start creating mutual trades in their own currencies then USD might not be the same and it might not hold the same power anymore.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: stompix on June 05, 2023, 12:29:58 PM
China and Russia were the very first countries who started this movement and some other countries also followed suit, if all countries start creating mutual trades in their own currencies then USD might not be the same and it might not hold the same power anymore.

The USSR was the first country that tried it. How did it end? Well, rather than the dollar falling the USSR is no more.

What almost everyone that claims all day for the dollar to fall forgets is one thing, the dollar grew into this position because of economic power and trust, nobody is putting a gun at camping managers here to base their campaign on the $, why do they do this and not choose yuans and rubles? Why wouldn't any Indian want to be paid in a rupee equivalent or any Argentinian to be paid at a peso flat line?

Let's make a poll here and check how many of us know the current price of Bitcoin in yuans, rubles, rupee or real? Those figures will show just how much the real population is on board with the idea of dedollarization. For politicians, it's simple brag all day about nationalism and making your currency strong, getting rid of colonialism, of the bad influence of the West, it's free votes, but when you check their bank accounts they are full of dollars and euros when you check their assets it's shares in western companies and houses in Europe or North America.

Rather than the great dedollarization one should call it the great Delusion!

Russia is capturing the Dollar market fastly

And then you woke up, you went to the bathroom and you threw up all that Russian propaganda that made you lose your mind.  ;D


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: naira on June 05, 2023, 12:52:07 PM
Dedollarization may be a fact but I think it will be a very slow process. The U.S. dollar is so pervasive as a reserve currency that it has become an integral part of the economic infrastructures of every country in the world.

I think we are looking at decades rather than years.


The de-dollarization movement has been going on for a long time, you could even say that they initially did it by underground movement methods, to the point where several countries have grown their economies, have been strong from a military standpoint, controlled territory and at least controlled more than 5% of the world's economy. By combining the strengths of various countries, trying to revolutionize world finance. De-dollarization will be felt in the long term at least until America financial condition is in a more critical condition, I mean after the level of public confidence in the dollar drops dramatically.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: Doan9269 on June 05, 2023, 03:02:56 PM
The dollar is the world's strongest currency, almost all countries will save foreign exchange in dollars, this is what makes the dollar's influence very strong and dominant, of course we hope there will be no economic problems with the USA because it will have a negative impact globally.

We cannot ever react or overlooked at the power of influence the USD has over every other currencies but ever since the introduction of bitcoin in cryptocurrency, this has always been a threat to the dominance of USD because the entire world is shifting focus on USD to bitcoin digital technology because of it decentralization unlike US dollars which is centralized, yet we must also not loose focus in this because we still have little more journey with the digital technology before it can be assumed for a takeover to control the entire economy.


Title: Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not
Post by: pooya87 on June 05, 2023, 03:11:51 PM
Russia has also faced some when they tried to take INR instead of US dollars and then they have no other means to use those INR, and now they have useless Indian currency. (source (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-05/russia-says-it-has-billions-of-indian-rupees-that-it-can-t-use)).
That news is mostly twisted and the situation is blown out of proportion. Of course there is going to be disagreements and most importantly competition between countries that want their own fiat to be dominant not other countries'. What we are seeing is the transitional phase where things change while different countries compete with each other to get a bigger share in the new world order.
In fact this is the period where weak countries are going to be swallowed, even borders may change. And this has happened many times in the history.

they will overcome them and will come up with such the bold moves that they made when Saddam Hussain declare to use the Pond as a payment method instead of US dollar in Iraq for the trade of their Oil and US invaded Iraq after that with the slogan (mission name " freedom of Iraq" something like that)
It took nearly a decade to prepare for that invasion (sanctioning Iraq, causing famine and starvation in the country, disarming of Iraq, attacking defensive positions of Iraq, etc.) then US invaded with a massive coalition with NATO and dozens of countries like Ukraine.
The difference is that there are loads of countries that are dumping dollar these days and US neither has the time to prepare for such invasions nor the global coalition to perform such invasions nor any are those countries weak to be invaded.


As @Darker45 put it perfectly, the process is not linear and has ups and downs. With the recent 15th BRICS summit the dedollarisation should speed up again among the member countries (both official and unofficial members). I'm waiting for more news about it to come up with a better analysis, but so far many positive news has come out with numerous economical cooperation that would help all the involving economies and some of which involve dumping dollar.