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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Abiky on May 31, 2023, 04:25:12 PM



Title: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on May 31, 2023, 04:25:12 PM
Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source? I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me. With the Ledger Recover feature meant to help restore people's private keys/seeds by complying with KYC, the hardware wallet could be compromised as we know it. If it's not open source, it cannot be trusted.

Any suggestions and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. :)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Charles-Tim on May 31, 2023, 04:31:04 PM
You can see the list of open source hardware wallet here: Open source hardware wallet (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0)

I will recommend passport.

Some people also recommend Keystone.

I would have recommended Trezor but the recent coinjoin with the help of Wasabi makes coinjoin to be censored and no privacy anymore as the transactions are monitored by Chainanlysis.

As for Ledger Nano wallet, it has been on of the worst wallets that I can not recommend anyone. I do not recommend the wallet before because they were careless with customers data and also the secure element in all their wallets are all close source.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Nwada001 on May 31, 2023, 04:33:17 PM
Well, in search of the best hardware wallet to use since ledger has broken their users trust, try using either a desktop or mobile Electrum wallet for the main time and move all your funds from that of ledger to your newly acquired Bitcoin wallet. Before it becomes too late, when the ledge is either hit with a security bridge or any funny news from the SEC,


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Charles-Tim on May 31, 2023, 04:36:05 PM
Well, in search of the best hardware wallet to use since ledger has broken their users trust, try using either a desktop or mobile Electrum wallet for the main time and move all your funds from that of ledger to your newly acquired Bitcoin wallet. Before it becomes too late, when the ledge is either hit with a security bridge or any funny news from the SEC,
There is nothing to late. Going for online wallet is not a good idea. He can just wait and buy new better hardware wallet instead before dumping the no privacy and no full control Ledger wallet.

If in haste, there are options he can go for if he has good knowledge about bitcoin wallet. Going for other cold wallets like paper wallet or wallet on airgapped devices is better.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: BitMaxz on May 31, 2023, 04:42:44 PM
That's the bad part of using Ledger Nano they don't have open-source code for their hardware wallets and we do not know what's behind the program of their device.

Why not use Trezor instead which is open-source I do not know if it's the best one but Trezor is already a popular wallet that supports multiple cryptocurrencies.

Or if you just want to store Bitcoin only then a Cold card might be optional.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: leonair on May 31, 2023, 04:51:34 PM
Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source? I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me. With the Ledger Recover feature meant to help restore people's private keys/seeds by complying with KYC, the hardware wallet could be compromised as we know it. If it's not open source, it cannot be trusted.

Any suggestions and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. :)
Ledger is a good hardware wallet.  But if you are looking for another open source hardware wallet and want to switch there then you can choose Trezor as we know it as a good hardware wallet. Charles-Tim has already linked a list here that lists several open source wallets. You can choose your preferred wallet from there but as per my personal advice I think it would be better to use Trezor. I have nothing more to say than that


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Upgrade00 on May 31, 2023, 05:12:06 PM
Ledger is a good hardware wallet.
But it's not. With the whole obscurity about how they encryp your seedphrase to be able to recover your private keys should you get a new ledger device, it's best to go for the better, more transparent alternatives.

This is also not the first time ledger wallet has come under scrutiny, there have bee data breaches in the past that exposed its users to personalized scams. They also did not reveal the hack early enough but waited about a month before reporting on the hack, not giving their users a heads up to change their personal details on other platforms.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 01, 2023, 04:22:04 PM
You can see the list of open source hardware wallet here: Open source hardware wallet (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0)

I will recommend passport.

Some people also recommend Keystone.

I would have recommended Trezor but the recent coinjoin with the help of Wasabi makes coinjoin to be censored and no privacy anymore as the transactions are monitored by Chainanlysis.

As for Ledger Nano wallet, it has been on of the worst wallets that I can not recommend anyone. I do not recommend the wallet before because they were careless with customers data and also the secure element in all their wallets are all close source.

Pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. This is just what I've needed. You can never trust a company (Ledger) that could easily side with the government for unknown reasons. The private key/seed recovery service tells us the company is already compromised. Why not educate people on how to protect their keys instead? It goes against their claims that they cannot access or know your keys.

The hardware wallet is closed source (AFAIK) so there's no way to know how your keys are stored/encrypted on the device. I really hope open source alternatives win for the good of the crypto/Blockchain industry. Who knows if Ledger is bound to die soon? Just my opinion :)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: LSDadventure on June 01, 2023, 04:53:32 PM
The hardware wallet is closed source (AFAIK) so there's no way to know how your keys are stored/encrypted on the device. I really hope open source alternatives win for the good of the crypto/Blockchain industry.
Who need a closed source hardware wallet?

I can use an open source non custodial wallet like Electrum wallet, and set up a multisig wallet with Electrum or a cold wallet with Electrum. It is safer than using a closed source hardware wallet.

Quote
Who knows if Ledger is bound to die soon? Just my opinion :)
They are losing customers. Closed source, and their Ledger Recovery Service broke basics of a good wallet.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Z390 on June 01, 2023, 06:49:11 PM
The hardware wallet is closed source (AFAIK) so there's no way to know how your keys are stored/encrypted on the device. I really hope open source alternatives win for the good of the crypto/Blockchain industry.
Who need a closed source hardware wallet?

I can use an open source non custodial wallet like Electrum wallet, and set up a multisig wallet with Electrum or a cold wallet with Electrum. It is safer than using a closed source hardware wallet.

Quote
Who knows if Ledger is bound to die soon? Just my opinion :)
They are losing customers. Closed source, and their Ledger Recovery Service broke basics of a good wallet.

You are speaking fact here but do you know that the Electrum wallet stays online most times because you are running on your smartphone with a 24/7 internet connection? This is where hardware wallets beat got wallets, staying offline is what hardware is good at and this makes them the best type of crypto wallet, but Electrum as a open source wallet is better than hardware wallets that are closed source, your point is valid.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Stalker22 on June 01, 2023, 09:29:16 PM
You are speaking fact here but do you know that the Electrum wallet stays online most times because you are running on your smartphone with a 24/7 internet connection? This is where hardware wallets beat got wallets, staying offline is what hardware is good at and this makes them the best type of crypto wallet, but Electrum as a open source wallet is better than hardware wallets that are closed source, your point is valid.

I did not see anyone talking about the Electrum mobile app for smartphones.

Electrum mobile is great if you want to make frequent transactions or payments, but if safety is your primary concern I recommend using Electrum on an offline computer. If you need to make transactions, you can always use Electrum on a smartphone or online computer in watch-only mode.

I am not saying you should not use a good open-source hardware wallet, but if one is too expensive for your budget there are other options that can be almost as secure (if not more so).


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: joniboini on June 02, 2023, 12:18:22 AM
They are losing customers. Closed source, and their Ledger Recovery Service broke basics of a good wallet.
I heard they plan to make more of their code open-source in the future. I guess that's inevitable unless they want to go out of business after their last recovery fiasco. Kinda weird that it needs to go this far before they even consider asking themselves whether they are doing a smart thing or not.

You are speaking fact here but do you know that the Electrum wallet stays online most times because you are running on your smartphone with a 24/7 internet connection?
I believe he refers to using Electrum with a cold storage setup., not a phone/a hot wallet. You can also force yourself to use a phone and never turn on the internet I guess, but why not use other devices at that point? Anyone who uses their phone to manage their crypto should realize the risk in the first place. CMIIW.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Gladitorcomeback on June 02, 2023, 12:47:35 AM
Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source?

I didn't used open source hardware hardware wallet yet and those who already used these wallets can give better answer. I am using safepal hardware wallet because i am holding new Altcoins chains also and Safepal is suitable for me but this wallet is not open sourced and also multi coins hardware wallet is not best option to store btc.

However i searched on google and found that trezor and keystone are recommended by many users.  Trezor are most demanded wallet and i saw many users are reviewing positive about this wallet. ledger nano are now changing and it's becoming more centralized which is against the reason users want to choose hardware wallet


I asked ChatGpt about best open source btc hardware wallet and here is answer

Quote

As of my knowledge cutoff in September 2021, there are several open-source hardware wallets available for storing Bitcoin (BTC). However, it's important to note that the landscape of hardware wallets can change over time, so it's recommended to conduct your own research and verify the latest information before making a decision.

One popular open-source hardware wallet for Bitcoin is the Trezor Model T. Trezor is a well-established brand known for its security features and user-friendly interface. The Trezor Model T supports multiple cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, and offers features like a touch screen, passphrase encryption, and a secure recovery process.

Another option is the Coldcard Wallet, developed by Coinkite. It is designed specifically for Bitcoin and offers advanced security features such as multi-signature support, hardware-based entropy, and air-gapped signing. The Coldcard Wallet is open source, and its firmware is available on GitHub, allowing the community to verify and audit the code.

While these are popular choices, it's essential to consider your own requirements, security preferences, and any additional features you may need before selecting a hardware wallet. Additionally, it's always a good practice to check for the latest information and reviews to ensure you make an informed decision based on the most up-to-date knowledge available.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Jason Brendon on June 02, 2023, 02:00:19 AM
Trezor, paper wallet, i love paper wallet. When needed, use Electrum to spend from the paper wallet.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 02, 2023, 04:06:37 PM

Who need a closed source hardware wallet?

I can use an open source non custodial wallet like Electrum wallet, and set up a multisig wallet with Electrum or a cold wallet with Electrum. It is safer than using a closed source hardware wallet.

Electrum is nice. But it's not as convenient as a hardware wallet per se. Since it's a software wallet, you can risk losing your BTC if the hacker gets access to your device. With a hardware wallet, they'd need to get physical access to the wallet and enter a PIN to steal all of your coins. Electrum allows you to create a cold storage wallet, but I'd certainly won't be using that to make day-to-day payments with BTC. That's why I prefer hardware wallets, even though some are expensive.

The list of open source hardware wallets seems to be growing each day, so only time will tell us if Ledger will become history. Bitcoin is all about self-custody, so who needs to trust a company for securing your keys? :)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: ImThour on June 02, 2023, 04:30:11 PM
I would let you go through this link and choose your own wallet for Bitcoin: https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet
It will make you go through some steps and you will be educated enough to select the wallet which is best for you.

Some people mentioned Electrum, it's a software wallet and not a real hardware wallet.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: mendace on June 02, 2023, 04:34:55 PM
I can advise you to seriously consider Blockstream's Jade hardware wallet as it has all the code clearly visible on Github and a very low cost of around $70 or so.  And that's not all, you can also compile this wallet on an esp32 card such as the lygo or stick c plus and reduce costs to just a few tens of dollars.  Furthermore, I had already talked about this choice in the thread opened a few weeks ago. 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5450647.msg62169741#msg62169741

While if you ask me which is the best software, my choice falls on Electrum.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: jossiel on June 02, 2023, 09:37:51 PM
Ledger is a good hardware wallet. 
It used to be. I still have it and I have a choice to find another one and these concerns really are valid. Although the recover feature is an opt-in, we don't like it to be like that.

I can advise you to seriously consider Blockstream's Jade hardware wallet as it has all the code clearly visible on Github and a very low cost of around $70 or so. 
I'm torn between this and Trezor. I am using their blockstream green wallet software and also saw their other product which is the hardware wallet. But I think, there's more confidence in the usage of Trezor as it's the other hardware wallet that's next or now over than the Ledger hardware wallets.

While if you ask me which is the best software, my choice falls on Electrum.
Yeah, it's an open source and one of the best wallets but it's not a hardware wallet.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: ilovealtcoins on June 02, 2023, 11:54:18 PM
Some are using trezor and they say it is open source and cheaper than Ledger. In my opinion, I don't think anything is 100% secure, and Ledger is an example. We trusted them for years until they announced their damn service. The best way is that you divide your assets into parts and store them in different wallets, I think only then will our assets be more secure.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: joniboini on June 03, 2023, 01:12:03 AM
Since it's a software wallet, you can risk losing your BTC if the hacker gets access to your device. With a hardware wallet, they'd need to get physical access to the wallet and enter a PIN to steal all of your coins. Electrum allows you to create a cold storage wallet, but I'd certainly won't be using that to make day-to-day payments with BTC. That's why I prefer hardware wallets, even though some are expensive.
I believe you can also install Electrum on a live USB if you don't want to expose your wallet continuously to the internet. For example, buying a mini-PC dedicated to running a live USB with Electrum, or just an air-gapped device in general.

Some are using trezor and they say it is open source and cheaper than Ledger. In my opinion, I don't think anything is 100% secure, and Ledger is an example. We trusted them for years until they announced their damn service. The best way is that you divide your assets into parts and store them in different wallets, I think only then will our assets be more secure.
I don't think they expect Trezor or other open-source hardware wallets to be immune from exploits or bugs in the first place. However, it is certainly better compared to using Ledger after their latest fiasco. You can simply build your own device and verify the firmware/etc since it is open source. Using multiple wallets increases the burden of making backups. Sure you can do it, but if you use closed-source software then I don't see it as a significantly better option. CMIIW.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Onset on June 03, 2023, 06:15:43 AM
After all, I think we’ll all reach one conclusion: the best storage is cold storage by using older hardware (eg. an old laptop). Keep that thing offline and use Electrum, there’s nothing else you’ll ever need, man.

I’m so tired and sick of their BS. All these companies are obviously targets and some of them will kneel to the government. Just.. DIY a great cold storage and roll with it.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: mendace on June 03, 2023, 10:45:53 AM

I can advise you to seriously consider Blockstream's Jade hardware wallet as it has all the code clearly visible on Github and a very low cost of around $70 or so. 
I'm torn between this and Trezor. I am using their blockstream green wallet software and also saw their other product which is the hardware wallet. But I think, there's more confidence in the usage of Trezor as it's the other hardware wallet that's next or now over than the Ledger hardware wallets.

While if you ask me which is the best software, my choice falls on Electrum.
Yeah, it's an open source and one of the best wallets but it's not a hardware wallet.

I really don't like Trezor and its way of storing the seed, please note that Jade does not have a secure element but it has a double PIN function that protects the seed and it can be self hosted this part as well.  Also with the camera and QR system you have implemented an excellent airgapped function.  Keep these things in mind, as well as the fact that if you opt for the auto compile code solution you won't have to trust any third party but yourself.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Maidak on June 03, 2023, 11:17:36 AM
After all, I think we’ll all reach one conclusion: the best storage is cold storage by using older hardware (eg. an old laptop). Keep that thing offline and use Electrum, there’s nothing else you’ll ever need, man.

I’m so tired and sick of their BS. All these companies are obviously targets and some of them will kneel to the government. Just.. DIY a great cold storage and roll with it.

I like this method, and I am planning it too, prepare an old pc and install linux os, combine it with Electrum, and keep them always offline. I think it is more secure than any hardware wallet on the market because they are all manufactured by companies, and these companies cannot resist government control. Bad things have happened to Ledger, and if the government doesn't want to stop it, other hardware companies will be next.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Marvell1 on June 03, 2023, 12:26:56 PM
After all, I think we’ll all reach one conclusion: the best storage is cold storage by using older hardware (eg. an old laptop). Keep that thing offline and use Electrum, there’s nothing else you’ll ever need, man.

I’m so tired and sick of their BS. All these companies are obviously targets and some of them will kneel to the government. Just.. DIY a great cold storage and roll with it.

I like this method, and I am planning it too, prepare an old pc and install linux os, combine it with Electrum, and keep them always offline. I think it is more secure than any hardware wallet on the market because they are all manufactured by companies, and these companies cannot resist government control. Bad things have happened to Ledger, and if the government doesn't want to stop it, other hardware companies will be next.

I have also seen some investors using this method, a friend of mine had a hard time owning a hardware wallet because their country completely banned cryptocurrencies. Using a separate computer just to store bitcoins and always offline is something he has been doing for years. So far, I haven't heard any problems from him, and they are fine with this method. With what happened to Ledger is something we need to be more concerned about because I think it will not only occur to Ledger, but maybe other companies will also be the next target of the government. They cannot control the bitcoin network, but they can control crypto-related companies. That will also seriously affect us.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: dkbit98 on June 03, 2023, 07:46:07 PM
Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source? I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me. With the Ledger Recover feature meant to help restore people's private keys/seeds by complying with KYC, the hardware wallet could be compromised as we know it. If it's not open source, it cannot be trusted.
You won't find one ideal open source hardware wallet device, all of them have some plus and minuses but you can find few of them that works for you.
If you are using only Bitcoin than one of the good hardware wallets is Passport by Foundation, and for multicoin wallets Keystone is not bad and they are both airgapped.
I am not recommending purchase of any closed source wallets like ledger, but I would also skip overpriced Trezor Model T.

Here is the list of Open Source Hardware wallets I am maintaining:

  • Trezor (https://github.com/trezor)
  • Bitbox (https://github.com/digitalbitbox)
  • Passport (https://github.com/Foundation-Devices)
  • Jade (https://github.com/Blockstream/Jade)
  • Satochip (https://github.com/Toporin)
  • Keepkey (https://github.com/keepkey)
  • BitHD (https://github.com/bithd)
  • Prokey (https://github.com/prokey-io)
  • OneKey (https://github.com/OneKeyHQ)
  • OneKey Mini (https://github.com/OneKeyHQ)
  • Secalot (https://www.secalot.com/)
  • Keystone (https://github.com/KeystoneHQ)
  • HyperMate (https://github.com/hyperpayorg/hardwallet)
  • Cypherock X1 (https://www.cypherock.com/)
  • Hito (https://hito.xyz/)
  • Bitlox (https://github.com/bitlox)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 04, 2023, 08:06:58 AM
I can advise you to seriously consider Blockstream's Jade hardware wallet as it has all the code clearly visible on Github and a very low cost of around $70 or so.  And that's not all, you can also compile this wallet on an esp32 card such as the lygo or stick c plus and reduce costs to just a few tens of dollars.  Furthermore, I had already talked about this choice in the thread opened a few weeks ago. 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5450647.msg62169741#msg62169741

While if you ask me which is the best software, my choice falls on Electrum.

Pretty cool. I like the fact that the Jade wallet is a lot cheaper than the Ledger Nano X. But your solution seems to be even better using an esp32card. I wonder if this will work on smartphones (Android) or only on PC? I'm usually mobile, so I'd prefer something I could use to pay with BTC wherever I go. With this, who needs Ledger anymore?


Some are using trezor and they say it is open source and cheaper than Ledger. In my opinion, I don't think anything is 100% secure, and Ledger is an example. We trusted them for years until they announced their damn service. The best way is that you divide your assets into parts and store them in different wallets, I think only then will our assets be more secure.

I think Ledger sold itself to the government. They were pushed to comply with KYC through their own little service. But the community is not stupid. Most hardcore crypto users will now abandon Ledger products because of this. It's a pity because I've thought the company stood for crypto's original values. With open source hardware wallets, you don't need to trust the company other than to verify the code if everything is secure. Who knows if these alternatives ultimately beat Ledger in the long run?


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: mendace on June 04, 2023, 08:15:00 AM
I can advise you to seriously consider Blockstream's Jade hardware wallet as it has all the code clearly visible on Github and a very low cost of around $70 or so.  And that's not all, you can also compile this wallet on an esp32 card such as the lygo or stick c plus and reduce costs to just a few tens of dollars.  Furthermore, I had already talked about this choice in the thread opened a few weeks ago. 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5450647.msg62169741#msg62169741

While if you ask me which is the best software, my choice falls on Electrum.

Pretty cool. I like the fact that the Jade wallet is a lot cheaper than the Ledger Nano X. But your solution seems to be even better using an esp32card. I wonder if this will work on smartphones (Android) or only on PC? I'm usually mobile, so I'd prefer something I could use to pay with BTC wherever I go. With this, who needs Ledger anymore?





Tell me if it works?  Absolutely yes.  If you compile the code in one of the esp32 ones like the basic core (which I recommend because it has the most practical buttons) it already has the integrated bluetooth function if you don't disable it from the config file, so you download the Green wallet again from Blockstream for the management of the wallet and pair with the device via bluetooth.  Done.  I also advise you if you want a top layer of security to add the 25 word or seedphrase and keep it in mind just for you, so even if they come into possession of your seed they would find an empty wallet.  But you can also set up a 2 of 2 multisig wallet with OTP authenticator again using Greeen.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Marvell1 on June 04, 2023, 12:53:16 PM

Some are using trezor and they say it is open source and cheaper than Ledger. In my opinion, I don't think anything is 100% secure, and Ledger is an example. We trusted them for years until they announced their damn service. The best way is that you divide your assets into parts and store them in different wallets, I think only then will our assets be more secure.

I think Ledger sold itself to the government. They were pushed to comply with KYC through their own little service. But the community is not stupid. Most hardcore crypto users will now abandon Ledger products because of this. It's a pity because I've thought the company stood for crypto's original values. With open source hardware wallets, you don't need to trust the company other than to verify the code if everything is secure. Who knows if these alternatives ultimately beat Ledger in the long run?

It can be said that what Ledger did has disappointed many people. But we need to realize one thing, all these hardware wallet companies are in business, and they are regulated by the government. If the government cannot control the bitcoin network, then of course, they will target exchanges, hardware wallet companies, or all the companies that provide bitcoin related services to control bitcoin indirectly. I also fear that other hardware wallet companies like Trezor will be unable to avoid government pursuit. They won't stop until they reach their goal. So I have more worries in the future, we should find another solution instead of like before, always thinking that hardware wallet is the safest.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: m2017 on June 04, 2023, 01:42:10 PM

Some are using trezor and they say it is open source and cheaper than Ledger. In my opinion, I don't think anything is 100% secure, and Ledger is an example. We trusted them for years until they announced their damn service. The best way is that you divide your assets into parts and store them in different wallets, I think only then will our assets be more secure.

I think Ledger sold itself to the government. They were pushed to comply with KYC through their own little service. But the community is not stupid. Most hardcore crypto users will now abandon Ledger products because of this. It's a pity because I've thought the company stood for crypto's original values. With open source hardware wallets, you don't need to trust the company other than to verify the code if everything is secure. Who knows if these alternatives ultimately beat Ledger in the long run?

It can be said that what Ledger did has disappointed many people. But we need to realize one thing, all these hardware wallet companies are in business, and they are regulated by the government. If the government cannot control the bitcoin network, then of course, they will target exchanges, hardware wallet companies, or all the companies that provide bitcoin related services to control bitcoin indirectly. I also fear that other hardware wallet companies like Trezor will be unable to avoid government pursuit. They won't stop until they reach their goal. So I have more worries in the future, we should find another solution instead of like before, always thinking that hardware wallet is the safest.
A HW device can remain safe if it is not assembled / created by the hands of such companies as Ledger or Trezor. I am inclined to believe that sooner or later any manufacturer of hardware wallets may come under pressure from states, and even ideological companies (supporters of the ideas of the cryptocommunity) will be forced to surrender. Therefore, I believe that the safest HW wallet will be the device that you assemble with your own hands. The BTC-community needs to look in this direction and develop such an opportunity, when even an ordinary user without special technical skills can assemble such a device as a designer. Assembled the physical part, installed the firmware, connected it to electrum and use it.

Decentralized hardware wallets must also be decentralized, otherwise all this decentralization becomes meaningless. Bitcoin in your wallet should not depend on HW manufacturers anyone.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Synchronice on June 04, 2023, 03:06:36 PM
Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source? I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me. With the Ledger Recover feature meant to help restore people's private keys/seeds by complying with KYC, the hardware wallet could be compromised as we know it. If it's not open source, it cannot be trusted.

Any suggestions and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. :)
The real deal-breaker isn't whether wallet is open-source or not (at least for me) but the clear vision of the company that builds that wallet. Ledger is a company with very cynical attitude towards their own customers and they are very money-oriented instead of being a privacy-oriented company.
At some point, the same applies to Trezor. While they are open-source, it doesn't mean their wallet is secure because their devices suffer from unfixable seed extraction vulnerabilities and at the same time, the problem lies within company too. This company is very pro-government, has partnered with Wasabi and Blockchain Analysis companies.

By the way, when it comes to advice, o_e_l_e_o is someone you should listen to, here I'll quote my question and his answer:
That has happened in 2019, do they still suffer from the same problem? Btw they removed the support of AOPP but yeah, what you say about them is true.
It's interesting to know what you think about Coldcard or do you think that no hardware wallet is trustable and airgapped encrypted devices are the only last and one devices to use.
As I said, the vulnerability is unfixable. It still exists and will always exist on these devices. Coldcard is certainly airgapped, but it is not open source as Pmalek points out and the company behind it spread lies about competitors for their own gain. I personally wouldn't use it.

If I had to buy a hardware wallet right now, I would buy a Passport. But I'd much rather continue to use a separate airgapped, encrypted device, running a FOSS OS and wallet.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: crunck on June 04, 2023, 03:14:15 PM
There are a few excellent open source hardware wallets available for securing your Bitcoin (BTC) holdings. One popular choice is the Trezor Model T, which features a color touchscreen and supports multiple cryptocurrencies. It is praised for its user-friendly interface and robust security measures. Another notable option is the Ledger Nano S, known for its compact design and affordability. It offers a wide range of coin support and has a strong reputation in the crypto community. Both wallets prioritize open source principles, allowing users to review and verify their software's security. Ultimately, the choice between these two wallets depends on your specific preferences and requirements.

Looks like you haven't heard about Ledger news, and you probably haven't read what OP said either, you are just replying based on the thread title. But that's okay, but it's important that you stay up to date with your news and knowledge to keep your bitcoins safe. The ledger is no longer secure, and Trezor could be everyone's next choice.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: taufik123 on June 04, 2023, 03:20:27 PM
The real deal-breaker isn't whether wallet is open-source or not (at least for me) but the clear vision of the company that builds that wallet. Ledger is a company with very cynical attitude towards their own customers and they are very money-oriented instead of being a privacy-oriented company.
and they are not consistent with what they said at the beginning. Ledger is sacrificing the privacy of all users with updates that no one really needs.
A clear vision and mission for open-source wallets will be a sign of how they will be in the future.
But if they violate their own mission statement, you can be sure they don't deserve any place with their customers.

At some point, the same applies to Trezor. While they are open-source, it doesn't mean their wallet is secure because their devices suffer from unfixable seed extraction vulnerabilities and at the same time, the problem lies within company too. This company is very pro-government, has partnered with Wasabi and Blockchain Analysis companies.
Trezor is the final choice, but if they are too pro-government it is not impossible that they will eventually do the same thing as Ledger.
As for the vulnerability of their devices, it can probably still be fixed with some further development.

I don't know which Hardware wallet is the best, we can only see the development at this time.
See how Hardware Wallet Companies compete with each other, providing their latest features to embed controversial features. 


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Crypt0Gore on June 04, 2023, 03:24:35 PM
Binance Exchange CEO was right all along when he said that the biggest problem of crypto is the wallets we use to store our favourite coins, he believes that the security of those crypto wallets are not that secured like we think, and I felt scared because it's coming from someone who know about crypto wallet very well and also the founder of Trust wallet.

Ledger and Atomic wallet are not the latest example of why crypto wallet securities are one of the biggest issues we have in crypto space, do you think this is making sense? Or you disagree? Now Trezor look like the only option left for hardware wallet users.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: flyingcarpet on June 04, 2023, 03:28:25 PM
That's the bad part of using Ledger Nano they don't have open-source code for their hardware wallets and we do not know what's behind the program of their device.

Why not use Trezor instead which is open-source I do not know if it's the best one but Trezor is already a popular wallet that supports multiple cryptocurrencies.

Or if you just want to store Bitcoin only then a Cold card might be optional.


Even if it has served well for many years, it does not make some people trust them. I'm neutral on this, but I agree with what you're saying. When it's not open source, we can't fully control it. This pushes us to different thoughts. As an alternative, many things have been said.

Although I think so, I still use it. I hope the things we fear do not happen to us.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: summonerrk on June 04, 2023, 05:48:25 PM
Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source? I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me. With the Ledger Recover feature meant to help restore people's private keys/seeds by complying with KYC, the hardware wallet could be compromised as we know it. If it's not open source, it cannot be trusted.

Any suggestions and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. :)

Wait.
The Ledger cannot be compromised if, after the update, you did not click "YES" when the question appeared there - "Whether to add a recovery function".
If you clicked NO, then the Ledger remains in the previous state. Without the possibility of remote recovery by other people.
Closed code is bad, but on the other hand, attackers do not know exactly how the wallet works.
That's why the Trust Wallet closed its source code, and now its code is also closed. But Electrum has an open source code. But I only believe Ledger.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: usekevin on June 04, 2023, 07:10:53 PM
After all, I think we’ll all reach one conclusion: the best storage is cold storage by using older hardware (eg. an old laptop). Keep that thing offline and use Electrum, there’s nothing else you’ll ever need, man.

I’m so tired and sick of their BS. All these companies are obviously targets and some of them will kneel to the government. Just.. DIY a great cold storage and roll with it.


It’s better to hold the bitcoin in the cold storage as compared to the normal wallet.From 2016,huge bitcoin wallet was hacked by many people.Even some of my friends had loss some bitcoin.One of my friend had lost his 9 Bitcoin,which he received from his uncle as the birthday gift.It’s good enough to gift some bitcoin to your younger people.It will bring the young people to bitcoin at the earliest period is good one.After the decade,the young people of our generation will have a use of bitcoin.So it’s better one to allow the young people to know more about cryptocurrency and specially bitcoin into life settlement.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Marvell1 on June 05, 2023, 10:50:02 AM

Some are using trezor and they say it is open source and cheaper than Ledger. In my opinion, I don't think anything is 100% secure, and Ledger is an example. We trusted them for years until they announced their damn service. The best way is that you divide your assets into parts and store them in different wallets, I think only then will our assets be more secure.

I think Ledger sold itself to the government. They were pushed to comply with KYC through their own little service. But the community is not stupid. Most hardcore crypto users will now abandon Ledger products because of this. It's a pity because I've thought the company stood for crypto's original values. With open source hardware wallets, you don't need to trust the company other than to verify the code if everything is secure. Who knows if these alternatives ultimately beat Ledger in the long run?

It can be said that what Ledger did has disappointed many people. But we need to realize one thing, all these hardware wallet companies are in business, and they are regulated by the government. If the government cannot control the bitcoin network, then of course, they will target exchanges, hardware wallet companies, or all the companies that provide bitcoin related services to control bitcoin indirectly. I also fear that other hardware wallet companies like Trezor will be unable to avoid government pursuit. They won't stop until they reach their goal. So I have more worries in the future, we should find another solution instead of like before, always thinking that hardware wallet is the safest.
A HW device can remain safe if it is not assembled / created by the hands of such companies as Ledger or Trezor. I am inclined to believe that sooner or later any manufacturer of hardware wallets may come under pressure from states, and even ideological companies (supporters of the ideas of the cryptocommunity) will be forced to surrender. Therefore, I believe that the safest HW wallet will be the device that you assemble with your own hands. The BTC-community needs to look in this direction and develop such an opportunity, when even an ordinary user without special technical skills can assemble such a device as a designer. Assembled the physical part, installed the firmware, connected it to electrum and use it.

Decentralized hardware wallets must also be decentralized, otherwise all this decentralization becomes meaningless. Bitcoin in your wallet should not depend on HW manufacturers anyone.

Certainly, the government will not stop with Ledger, they will continue to attack other hardware wallet companies is inevitable. I understand the solution you are suggesting. But how and how can we assemble a hardware wallet for ourselves? How is it that an ordinary person like me, who knows nothing about hardware engineering or basic assembly techniques, can do it on my own?

I am also struggling to find another solution because I know that it is only a matter of time before hardware wallets are controlled by the government. I am also considering using a separate computer or smartphone with the Electrum wallet installed and dedicated to storage only. I don't know if it is more secure than a hardware wallet?


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: MoonOfLife on June 05, 2023, 12:01:20 PM
After all, I think we’ll all reach one conclusion: the best storage is cold storage by using older hardware (eg. an old laptop). Keep that thing offline and use Electrum, there’s nothing else you’ll ever need, man.

I’m so tired and sick of their BS. All these companies are obviously targets and some of them will kneel to the government. Just.. DIY a great cold storage and roll with it.


It’s better to hold the bitcoin in the cold storage as compared to the normal wallet.From 2016,huge bitcoin wallet was hacked by many people.Even some of my friends had loss some bitcoin.One of my friend had lost his 9 Bitcoin,which he received from his uncle as the birthday gift.It’s good enough to gift some bitcoin to your younger people.It will bring the young people to bitcoin at the earliest period is good one.After the decade,the young people of our generation will have a use of bitcoin.So it’s better one to allow the young people to know more about cryptocurrency and specially bitcoin into life settlement.

Kho lạnh như ví phần cứng Ledger? Will it be safe until they notify you that they are storing your seed phrase on their server? As some have said here, the reality is that hardware wallet companies will soon be interfered with by the government, they will no longer be safe for us. We should find a better solution. But at the moment, we don't have any solution and choose open source hardware wallet as the only option until they announce that they have also been visited by the government.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: FatFork on June 05, 2023, 04:46:27 PM
Certainly, the government will not stop with Ledger, they will continue to attack other hardware wallet companies is inevitable. I understand the solution you are suggesting. But how and how can we assemble a hardware wallet for ourselves? How is it that an ordinary person like me, who knows nothing about hardware engineering or basic assembly techniques, can do it on my own?

I am also struggling to find another solution because I know that it is only a matter of time before hardware wallets are controlled by the government. I am also considering using a separate computer or smartphone with the Electrum wallet installed and dedicated to storage only. I don't know if it is more secure than a hardware wallet?

There are hardware wallets that are designed to be completely air-gapped and employ technology which eliminates any possibility of online connectivity. Transactions are signed exclusively through SD cards or QR code scanning, leaving no room for private keys or seed phrases to be exposed. With these security measures in place, governments have no means to compromise the security of your assets stored within such wallets. Oh, and don't forget to ensure that the wallet software is open source, thoroughly tested, and verified, and I think you're pretty safe.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Pmalek on June 05, 2023, 06:06:56 PM
Ledger is sacrificing the privacy of all users with updates that no one really needs.
A clear vision and mission for open-source wallets will be a sign of how they will be in the future.
The privacy is the smaller of two big problems that Ledger is creating. The second one is the security. You are not only sharing your KYC data with some companies and organizations in the UK, USA, and France, you are sharing shards of your seed as well.   

As for the vulnerability of their devices, it can probably still be fixed with some further development.
That's the thing, it can't. Their hardware vulnerabilities are unfixable for the Model One and Model T.


The Ledger cannot be compromised if, after the update, you did not click "YES" when the question appeared there - "Whether to add a recovery function".
If you clicked NO, then the Ledger remains in the previous state. Without the possibility of remote recovery by other people.
In theory, it's you who has to agree with sharding and sharing your seed. In reality, no one knows. It's a matter of trust and this time it's too dangerous.

I understand the solution you are suggesting. But how and how can we assemble a hardware wallet for ourselves? How is it that an ordinary person like me, who knows nothing about hardware engineering or basic assembly techniques, can do it on my own?
Don't do it yourself if you are not comfortable with it. Building your own HW and signing devices is for the more advanced users. You can always opt for an airgapped solution if you have a spare desktop device somewhere. 


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 05, 2023, 09:23:37 PM
The real deal-breaker isn't whether wallet is open-source or not (at least for me) but the clear vision of the company that builds that wallet. Ledger is a company with very cynical attitude towards their own customers and they are very money-oriented instead of being a privacy-oriented company.
At some point, the same applies to Trezor. While they are open-source, it doesn't mean their wallet is secure because their devices suffer from unfixable seed extraction vulnerabilities and at the same time, the problem lies within company too. This company is very pro-government, has partnered with Wasabi and Blockchain Analysis companies.

...

Most companies side with the government out of fear from getting their business shut down in an instant. They also do it because of the money. I'd trust a wallet that's made by a non-profit organization or a single person (but open source), than a closed source wallet made by a company with shady practices. I'm not saying that closed source is bad, but rather risky since you won't be able to know the inner workings of your wallet.

With open source code, anyone can fix issues/vulnerabilities and make the wallet stronger. Just like how it's the case with Bitcoin today. I'd steer clear from any Ledger products, and choose an open source alternative instead. Who knows if the company's days are numbered? Just my thoughts ;D


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Pmalek on June 06, 2023, 04:04:33 PM
I'd steer clear from any Ledger products, and choose an open source alternative instead. Who knows if the company's days are numbered? Just my thoughts ;D
I don't think they are. If Ledger is good at one thing, that's marketing and advertising their products and services. They did a lousy job with the PR for Ledger Recover the first time. I think they will hang back, gather their thoughts, and try again once the storm passes.

We are forgetting that many ideas shared by members of this forum is not what the regular crypto user thinks. The average person isn't going to run their own node, stay clear of centralized exchanges, never submit KYC, or worry too much about privacy-invasive software and services. I don't think they will see the dangers in sharing their seeds with multiple online partners either if you package it and sell it to them in a nice wrapping.

Ledger will probably lose a percentage of their current userbase because people have found out their hardware wallets aren't as safe as they trusted Ledger they would be. In the long run, they might make up for it with new users, like the millions of mothers  ::) looking to purchase hardware wallets where there is a system in place to correct their mistakes.   


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 07, 2023, 05:55:18 PM
I don't think they are. If Ledger is good at one thing, that's marketing and advertising their products and services. They did a lousy job with the PR for Ledger Recover the first time. I think they will hang back, gather their thoughts, and try again once the storm passes.

We are forgetting that many ideas shared by members of this forum is not what the regular crypto user thinks. The average person isn't going to run their own node, stay clear of centralized exchanges, never submit KYC, or worry too much about privacy-invasive software and services. I don't think they will see the dangers in sharing their seeds with multiple online partners either if you package it and sell it to them in a nice wrapping.

Ledger will probably lose a percentage of their current userbase because people have found out their hardware wallets aren't as safe as they trusted Ledger they would be. In the long run, they might make up for it with new users, like the millions of mothers  ::) looking to purchase hardware wallets where there is a system in place to correct their mistakes.   

I guess you're right. The vast majority of crypto users want convenience on top of privacy/security/decentralization. While Ledger will lose customers because of its recovery service, it won't be much of a big deal compared to the rest of the people who really don't care about anything. For crypto veterans like myself, we would look into other alternatives that respects the true values of crypto/Blockchain tech. I'm glad there are plenty of open source alternatives on the market. This would make crypto stronger in the long run. Would you imagine hardware wallet companies being compromised by the government in the future? If there were no open source wallets, no one would be able to use a hardware wallet without giving away their privacy and freedom. I hope Ledger learns its lesson and decides to abandon plans to launch the recovery service. Maybe it will turn into an open source hardware wallet company in the long run?  ::)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Pmalek on June 07, 2023, 06:16:22 PM
I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me.
Not to be harsh, but if closed-source is a deal-breaker, what have you been waiting for in all your years of using Ledger? The wallet was closed-source back then and still is now. The question is how has that affected your use of it? The real deal-breaker and reason to abandon Ledger is their upcoming Ledger Recover feature. I agree with that.

...the secure element in all their wallets are all close source.
Secure Elements are generally closed-source, in Ledger and elsewhere. Even Passport I think is using a closed-source SE, the same one used by other brands like Coldcard.

A HW device can remain safe if it is not assembled / created by the hands of such companies as Ledger or Trezor. I am inclined to believe that sooner or later any manufacturer of hardware wallets may come under pressure from states, and even ideological companies (supporters of the ideas of the cryptocommunity) will be forced to surrender. Therefore, I believe that the safest HW wallet will be the device that you assemble with your own hands. The BTC-community needs to look in this direction and develop such an opportunity, when even an ordinary user without special technical skills can assemble such a device as a designer. Assembled the physical part, installed the firmware, connected it to electrum and use it.

Decentralized hardware wallets must also be decentralized, otherwise all this decentralization becomes meaningless. Bitcoin in your wallet should not depend on HW manufacturers anyone.
There is nothing wrong with your post except most people aren't interested in assembling their own devices. And they shouldn't have to do that to interact with cryptocurrencies. If that becomes a norm, then we can call it a day. Crypto has no future in that scenario.   


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Charles-Tim on June 07, 2023, 08:27:30 PM
Secure Elements are generally closed-source, in Ledger and elsewhere. Even Passport I think is using a closed-source SE, the same one used by other brands like Coldcard.
Coldcard secure element is close source, that means the hardware wallet is close source, just like Legder Nano.

According to what I found out about Passport, it is regarded as open source, even by some members on this forum.

Open Source

The best security is through openness, not secrecy. Passport is proudly open source – all software, electrical, and mechanical components are open and auditable. There is no hidden code or restricted information. You can even build a Passport yourself, from scratch!

Our hardware is open sourced via CERN’s Open Hardware License and our firmware via GPL. This means that Passport meets the legal definition for open source hardware. You can view the electronics here and firmware here. Mechanical designs will be posted soon.

I am not a programming, but I will like someone that knows about it like o_e_l_e_o to comment about it here. But if everything I have found out about the wallet is true, the secure element should be open source.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on June 08, 2023, 08:38:42 AM
I am not a programming, but I will like someone that knows about it like o_e_l_e_o to comment about it here. But if everything I have found out about the wallet is true, the secure element should be open source.
The source for everything to do with a Passport is viewable on their GitHub.

The physical Passport assembly can viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-assembly
The hardware for the three boards within a Passport can be viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-electronics
And finally the firmware: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-firmware

For Passport Version 2, the physical and hardware files are here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2-hardware
And the firmware is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2

The companion app Envoy is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/envoy


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: m2017 on June 08, 2023, 05:20:04 PM
~snip

A HW device can remain safe if it is not assembled / created by the hands of such companies as Ledger or Trezor. I am inclined to believe that sooner or later any manufacturer of hardware wallets may come under pressure from states, and even ideological companies (supporters of the ideas of the cryptocommunity) will be forced to surrender. Therefore, I believe that the safest HW wallet will be the device that you assemble with your own hands. The BTC-community needs to look in this direction and develop such an opportunity, when even an ordinary user without special technical skills can assemble such a device as a designer. Assembled the physical part, installed the firmware, connected it to electrum and use it.

Decentralized hardware wallets must also be decentralized, otherwise all this decentralization becomes meaningless. Bitcoin in your wallet should not depend on HW manufacturers anyone.
There is nothing wrong with your post except most people aren't interested in assembling their own devices. And they shouldn't have to do that to interact with cryptocurrencies. If that becomes a norm, then we can call it a day. Crypto has no future in that scenario.   
Yes, I understand your point of view. For the mass user, simple and easily understandable solutions are needed, which, in general, crypto community received as a result. Any hardware wallet is able to master the average user. But as it turns out, the side effects of these devices have been dependence on manufacturers who can do whatever they want with their products, even if it allows them to neglect the interests of their customers and may jeopardize the safety of their crypto assets.

Why do you think that cryptocurrencies have no future in this scenario? Because it won't allow the crypto to go mainstream and become just a niche product that only geeks can master. It seems that this stage is already in the past.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: phantailaptopbl on June 08, 2023, 05:24:13 PM
I am not a programming, but I will like someone that knows about it like o_e_l_e_o to comment about it here. But if everything I have found out about the wallet is true, the secure element should be open source.
The source for everything to do with a Passport is viewable on their GitHub.

The physical Passport assembly can viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-assembly
The hardware for the three boards within a Passport can be viewed here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-electronics
And finally the firmware: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-firmware

For Passport Version 2, the physical and hardware files are here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2-hardware
And the firmware is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2

The companion app Envoy is here: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/envoy



Your telling is correct only i think so , most of crypto users are having privacy and security and compare to this all like Convenience only and ledger or losses to this reason the costumers and truthfully not carrying person comparing and this is not a big issue and like me crypto currency experience person , crypto black chain technology having truth value and seen some different routes .  



Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Pmalek on June 08, 2023, 06:04:52 PM
According to what I found out about Passport, it is regarded as open source, even by some members on this forum.
How is it then that Trezor is working on developing the first open-source secure element chip if Passport is already using one? To be more precise, Trezor was talking about as open-source as possible.

Why do you think that cryptocurrencies have no future in this scenario?
Like everything in life, most people prefer to pay for the finished products. When you buy a new TV, you won't build and piece together the components yourself. If Sony sold PlayStations like Legos that you had to build yourself, it would be at the bottom of a gamer's wish list. Everything crypto needs to be simplified, so those who know almost nothing can quickly get the hang of it. If everyone has to build their own wallets in the future, this rocket will never take off.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: coolcoinz on June 08, 2023, 06:41:50 PM
Ledger is a good hardware wallet.
But it's not. With the whole obscurity about how they encryp your seedphrase to be able to recover your private keys should you get a new ledger device, it's best to go for the better, more transparent alternatives.

This is also not the first time ledger wallet has come under scrutiny, there have bee data breaches in the past that exposed its users to personalized scams. They also did not reveal the hack early enough but waited about a month before reporting on the hack, not giving their users a heads up to change their personal details on other platforms.

Let's not make a bigger deal out of it than it really is. The data breaches were related to customers who purchased their devices directly from ledger and all the breach revealed was their shipping addresses, so it wasn't such a big deal. If you were actively using online stores for the last 10 years, your address is being included in hacked databases sold on deep web anyway. Many people, including me, bought our ledgers from resellers, and we were not affected by that.

I agree that their recent update is unnecessary and in breach of the basic rules of self custody, so I recommend not updating your ledger if you have one and slowly thinking of a new wallet, because one day that update may become mandatory and then you'll become vulnerable. Still with that last update ledger is safer than your average exchange.

As for wallets, I recomend blockstream jade or keystone. Keystone is easier to use but more bulky and supports a number of shitcoins, so if you're not into that and support bitcoin only wallets choose jade. Both have qr scanners and run on batteries, so they're much better than ledger nano.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Pmalek on June 08, 2023, 06:52:46 PM
The data breaches were related to customers who purchased their devices directly from ledger and all the breach revealed was their shipping addresses, so it wasn't such a big deal.
Not exactly, it also revealed email addresses, phone numbers, and possibly other personal data you enter into the form when you make purchases.

If you were actively using online stores for the last 10 years, your address is being included in hacked databases sold on deep web anyway.
It's not the same thing. If you bought books online, PC games, a carpet, sunglasses... and that information got leaked, it's not as serious as everyone knowing you bought a hardware wallet and that you are potentially holding larger sums of crypto you consider worth storing on such a device.

Consider what is more dangerous in the wrong hands.
A hacked database of anyone who has ever opened a bank account in bank A or a hacked database of the top 10 deposit holders in the same bank? Names, addresses, etc.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Fivestar4everMVP on June 08, 2023, 07:26:08 PM
I am not very much familiar with hardware wallets, but I've always believe ledger and trezor were the best of them all until recently when alot got revealed about ledger, and then, the issue of them not being open source came up, Trezor  on the other hand have been doing quite well but several people believe they have some kind of privacy  issue which originated from Wasabi's coinjoin services integrated into the wallet..

Right now, I can't point to a particular hardware wallet I can vouch for as open source, but one which I am personally looking forward to using is Arculus from chainge finance, Arculus is a hardware which I believe have not started shipping out, but from all I've read about it, it may likely be a great choice, though like I said , I've not confirmed if the wallet is open source or not.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 08, 2023, 07:55:20 PM
Not to be harsh, but if closed-source is a deal-breaker, what have you been waiting for in all your years of using Ledger? The wallet was closed-source back then and still is now. The question is how has that affected your use of it? The real deal-breaker and reason to abandon Ledger is their upcoming Ledger Recover feature. I agree with that.

I didn't care back then because I've trusted the company. But that wasn't the case until I've discovered they were about to launch the recovery service. That made me vary of their methods to secure the private key or seed within the devide. It left me no other choice but to look for open source alternatives. With governments getting their hands into the crypto industry lately, we should be prepared for the worst. They may compromise the company making the hardware wallet, but if the device is open source, their efforts will be futile in the long run.

I've been considering getting myself a "Passport", but it seems that I'm only limited to Bitcoin. Not only that, but it's also more expensive than the Ledger Nano S. I guess you get what you pay for. Let's see what will happen with Ledger in the long run as competition grows in the industry. Maybe it will survive with a newly-fond crypto userbase? :)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: The Cryptovator on June 08, 2023, 08:20:28 PM
I have been using a Ledger device to store my cryptocurrency for quite some time. However, as I consider storing a significant amount of funds, concerns have started to arise. The fact that Ledger's code is not open source raises doubts about what might be hidden within it. Consequently, my sense of security with the Ledger device has diminished. As a solution, I am now contemplating acquiring a Trezor wallet, which has a reputable standing and is open source. With an open-source wallet like Trezor, there are no hidden vulnerabilities that could be exploited to steal our cryptocurrencies. Therefore, I have made the decision to transfer my crypto holdings from Ledger to the Trezor wallet in the near future.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on June 08, 2023, 08:32:06 PM
Ledger will probably lose a percentage of their current userbase because people have found out their hardware wallets aren't as safe as they trusted Ledger they would be.  
No doubt about that--but I don't suspect that Ledger is ever going to release the numbers since they're not a public company and thus don't have to.  Nor are they likely to further damage their brand by announcing a drop in sales or in users.  But man, I really would like to know how much this debacle is (or is going to) hitting them as far as profits go.

And to Abiky I'd say with respect to HW wallets, closed-source code is a bad thing as Ledger has proven.  Such code might be acceptable in other things, but not when it comes to crypto--at least not as far as I can see.

From everything I've read since this went down with Ledger, the best HW wallet brands for bitcoin are BitBox, Blockstream Jade, and Keystone.  Some folks have mentioned others, but I'm pretty sure that's because they were paid sponsorships on Youtube.  I'm pretty turned off by Ledger and HW wallets in general now, so I don't think I'll be buying any new ones (except perhaps as collectibles).


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: timoshani on June 08, 2023, 09:17:02 PM
I am not very much familiar with hardware wallets, but I've always believe ledger and trezor were the best of them all until recently when alot got revealed about ledger, and then, the issue of them not being open source came up, Trezor  on the other hand have been doing quite well but several people believe they have some kind of privacy  issue which originated from Wasabi's coinjoin services integrated into the wallet..

Right now, I can't point to a particular hardware wallet I can vouch for as open source, but one which I am personally looking forward to using is Arculus from chainge finance, Arculus is a hardware which I believe have not started shipping out, but from all I've read about it, it may likely be a great choice, though like I said , I've not confirmed if the wallet is open source or not.
In my experience, the hardware is not useful because such type of wallet need big PC resources and the level of security is not more than online wallets. And if PC has an Internet connection, the security levels are reduced significantly.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on June 09, 2023, 07:15:56 AM
As a solution, I am now contemplating acquiring a Trezor wallet, which has a reputable standing and is open source.
Trezor are anything but reputable. They supported AOPP, and they actively fund blockchain analysis, mass surveillance, and government sanctioned censorship via their partnership with Wasabi. There is zero chance I would trust a hardware wallet from a company who are pro-government, pro-censorship, pro-surveillance, and anti-fungibility.

With an open-source wallet like Trezor, there are no hidden vulnerabilities that could be exploited to steal our cryptocurrencies.
There are instead publicly known and unfixable vulnerabilities, which Trezor deliberately sweep under the rug and make no mention of in their set up guides, putting all new users at risk.

Trezor is a poor replacement.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Blitzboy on June 09, 2023, 10:34:19 AM
I don't think they are. If Ledger is good at one thing, that's marketing and advertising their products and services. They did a lousy job with the PR for Ledger Recover the first time. I think they will hang back, gather their thoughts, and try again once the storm passes.

We are forgetting that many ideas shared by members of this forum is not what the regular crypto user thinks. The average person isn't going to run their own node, stay clear of centralized exchanges, never submit KYC, or worry too much about privacy-invasive software and services. I don't think they will see the dangers in sharing their seeds with multiple online partners either if you package it and sell it to them in a nice wrapping.

Ledger will probably lose a percentage of their current userbase because people have found out their hardware wallets aren't as safe as they trusted Ledger they would be. In the long run, they might make up for it with new users, like the millions of mothers  ::) looking to purchase hardware wallets where there is a system in place to correct their mistakes.   

I guess you're right. The vast majority of crypto users want convenience on top of privacy/security/decentralization. While Ledger will lose customers because of its recovery service, it won't be much of a big deal compared to the rest of the people who really don't care about anything. For crypto veterans like myself, we would look into other alternatives that respects the true values of crypto/Blockchain tech. I'm glad there are plenty of open source alternatives on the market. This would make crypto stronger in the long run. Would you imagine hardware wallet companies being compromised by the government in the future? If there were no open source wallets, no one would be able to use a hardware wallet without giving away their privacy and freedom. I hope Ledger learns its lesson and decides to abandon plans to launch the recovery service. Maybe it will turn into an open source hardware wallet company in the long run?  ::)
Interesting! Still, I’d argue that the crypto is diverse enough to accommodate a spectrum of user needs and preferences. While I acknowledge the flaws in Ledger's approach, isn't there room for a more varied ecosystem? Crypto veterans like us are likely to prefer open-source, non-custodial wallets for optimal security and control. However, there's a substantial chunk of crypto users who prefer a degree of convenience and user-friendliness, even at the expense of some privacy and control. Isn't the key here diversity? The more significant issue I see here is user education. Many newbies are unaware of the potential privacy risks associated with certain practices. Rather than demonizing Ledger, perhaps our energy should be focused on enlightening these users? Remember, a well-informed user is less likely to fall prey to pitfalls, right?


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: karabiber on June 09, 2023, 12:24:21 PM
I am not very much familiar with hardware wallets, but I've always believe ledger and trezor were the best of them all until recently when alot got revealed about ledger, and then, the issue of them not being open source came up, Trezor  on the other hand have been doing quite well but several people believe they have some kind of privacy  issue which originated from Wasabi's coinjoin services integrated into the wallet..

Right now, I can't point to a particular hardware wallet I can vouch for as open source, but one which I am personally looking forward to using is Arculus from chainge finance, Arculus is a hardware which I believe have not started shipping out, but from all I've read about it, it may likely be a great choice, though like I said , I've not confirmed if the wallet is open source or not.

When choosing a Bitcoin wallet you need to consider the right criteria. The first of these is undoubtedly security. It is very critical to research the wallet in order to recognize the wallet you intend to open an account with and to check whether it has been hacked in its history. If you do not want to take risks, it is very important to choose a more established and proven platform in its field.

My choice would be Electrum. Thanks to its open source software, it is among the reliable wallets. Investors who open an account on the platform have the right to determine their own security level. You can create a multi signature wallet with a 2 factor authentication system. The reason for my preference emerged very shortly after the establishment of Bitcoin and has survived to the present day with almost no changes. But it only works for Bitcoin. If you are not interested in other cryptocurrencies, you can choose this wallet for its security measures and convenient use.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: mr.mister on June 09, 2023, 01:02:51 PM
Does anyone know of any good hardware wallets that are open source? I've been using a Ledger Nano for years but not being open source is a deal breaker for me. With the Ledger Recover feature meant to help restore people's private keys/seeds by complying with KYC, the hardware wallet could be compromised as we know it. If it's not open source, it cannot be trusted.

Any suggestions and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. :)

Just to make things clear, Ledger wallet's firmware is not yet open source, and somewhat controversial after the announcement of the ledger recover product.

If you just want to store btc, then the Coldcard MK4 is your best option.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: sokani on June 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM
Try using either a desktop or mobile Electrum wallet for the main time and move all your funds from that of ledger to your newly acquired Bitcoin wallet. Before it becomes too late, when the ledge is either hit with a security bridge or any funny news from the SEC,
The mobile and desktop electrum wallets are actually good. But there was a time someone on this forum complained of losing funds on an electrum wallet because of not updating to the latest firmware. I don't know if this has been really proven to be true. I have tried looking up google for help but I have not really gotten anything concrete and I would appreciate if someone can help me out.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Z-tight on June 09, 2023, 01:58:19 PM
The mobile and desktop electrum wallets are actually good. But there was a time someone on this forum complained of losing funds on an electrum wallet because of not updating to the latest firmware. I don't know if this has been really proven to be true. I have tried looking up google for help but I have not really gotten anything concrete and I would appreciate if someone can help me out.
It is good to update your electrum software if there is a new update, but using older versions are very safe, surely with newer versions you enjoy new additions and little bugs are fixed, but it does not mean your funds would be lost if you use older versions.

The person probably lost their Bitcoins because their wallet seed phrase or keys was compromised or because they downloaded a fake electrum software and not because they were using an older version of electrum.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Pmalek on June 09, 2023, 05:14:36 PM
Right now, I can't point to a particular hardware wallet I can vouch for as open source, but one which I am personally looking forward to using is Arculus from chainge finance, Arculus is a hardware which I believe have not started shipping out, but from all I've read about it, it may likely be a great choice, though like I said , I've not confirmed if the wallet is open source or not.
I doubt that Arculus is open-source. According to our local Croatian hardware wallet topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5285324.msg57912914#msg57912914), it's a credit card-type of device that works only in the USA. You need to use it together with the Arculus app, and the app doesn't work outside of the United States. I don't think you are American, so you should forget about this particular HW.

With governments getting their hands into the crypto industry lately, we should be prepared for the worst. They may compromise the company making the hardware wallet, but if the device is open source, their efforts will be futile in the long run.
I think the biggest concerns will be hardware compromises. We found out recently that Gigabyte mainboards had backdoors installed. I think that will be a huge problem in the future which could also impact the cryptocurrency industry.

...My choice would be Electrum...
The subject of this discussion is Best open source hardware wallets for BTC. Because of that, recommendations for software wallets aren't the way to go.

Just to make things clear, Ledger wallet's firmware is not yet open source, and somewhat controversial after the announcement of the ledger recover product.

If you just want to store btc, then the Coldcard MK4 is your best option.
Well, Coldcard isn't open-source either. But unlike Ledger, Coldcard has a public and verifiable codebase.

But there was a time someone on this forum complained of losing funds on an electrum wallet because of not updating to the latest firmware. I don't know if this has been really proven to be true. I have tried looking up google for help but I have not really gotten anything concrete and I would appreciate if someone can help me out.
There is no firmware with Electrum. Many users became victims of phishing scams in the past because they downloaded and installed fake Electrum wallets without verifying the signatures. This is phishing and social engineering, and is a user mistake.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 11, 2023, 07:26:12 PM
No doubt about that--but I don't suspect that Ledger is ever going to release the numbers since they're not a public company and thus don't have to.  Nor are they likely to further damage their brand by announcing a drop in sales or in users.  But man, I really would like to know how much this debacle is (or is going to) hitting them as far as profits go.

And to Abiky I'd say with respect to HW wallets, closed-source code is a bad thing as Ledger has proven.  Such code might be acceptable in other things, but not when it comes to crypto--at least not as far as I can see.

From everything I've read since this went down with Ledger, the best HW wallet brands for bitcoin are BitBox, Blockstream Jade, and Keystone.  Some folks have mentioned others, but I'm pretty sure that's because they were paid sponsorships on Youtube.  I'm pretty turned off by Ledger and HW wallets in general now, so I don't think I'll be buying any new ones (except perhaps as collectibles).

I like the Jade wallet very much. It has so many features for a very low price. And best of all, it's open source so you don't have to worry about Blockstream "going rogue" sometime in the future. I'd just start over by destroying the seed linked to my Ledger wallet, and make a new seed on the Jade wallet. That's without transfering my BTC funds first.

I've looked into Passport as well, but it's a lot more expensive than other open source wallets. But it's quite interesting to say the least. With plenty of alternatives on the market, who needs Ledger anymore? :)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Casdinyard on June 11, 2023, 08:41:03 PM
Well, in search of the best hardware wallet to use since ledger has broken their users trust, try using either a desktop or mobile Electrum wallet for the main time and move all your funds from that of ledger to your newly acquired Bitcoin wallet. Before it becomes too late, when the ledge is either hit with a security bridge or any funny news from the SEC,
Electrum's tried and tested but sometimes it just fails and when it does it fails horribly, so take using Electrum with a massive hand of salt.

Although I would agree with the fact that Hard Drive wallets are still good when it comes to saving your bitcoins. Been hearing lately that Trezor's the king but Ellipal could be as good as it in terms of security, plus the recent debacle with Trezor just rids them of that hard-earned trust and respect their users had for them, so I don't think you should dabble with this one too at least for now. Jade Wallet's great, when it comes to cost efficiency, and then Passport but that one's expensive with less features but the security I must say is top-notch.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: FatFork on June 13, 2023, 05:02:01 PM
Try using either a desktop or mobile Electrum wallet for the main time and move all your funds from that of ledger to your newly acquired Bitcoin wallet. Before it becomes too late, when the ledge is either hit with a security bridge or any funny news from the SEC,
The mobile and desktop electrum wallets are actually good. But there was a time someone on this forum complained of losing funds on an electrum wallet because of not updating to the latest firmware. I don't know if this has been really proven to be true. I have tried looking up google for help but I have not really gotten anything concrete and I would appreciate if someone can help me out.

You may be referring to julerz12's case, posted here: I've been hacked (Electrum 4.3.2) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5433643.0).

While the user did mention not updating his wallet to the latest version, it's important to consider that there isn't enough clear evidence to pinpoint the exact reason for his coin loss. From what I remember, julerz12 mentioned that he hasn't accessed his wallet for quite some time until he was alerted about coins being moved. This suggests that the leak of the wallet's private keys or seed phrase might have occurred prior to any potential "hack," if we can even label it as such.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: BlackHatCoiner on June 13, 2023, 07:12:28 PM
Well, Coldcard isn't open-source either. But unlike Ledger, Coldcard has a public and verifiable codebase.
Pardon me, but isn't verifiable codebase synonym to open-source? In the Github repository, you have everything needed to study the source code of the firmware. Why doesn't that count as open-source? Also, in bitcoin.org (https://bitcoin.org/en/wallets/hardware/coldcard/) it marks it as open-source, but I do notice it's the only place that it's called that way.

Electrum's tried and tested but sometimes it just fails and when it does it fails horribly, so take using Electrum with a massive hand of salt.
Bitcoin Core and Electrum are the two most tested and reviewed Bitcoin software. Where does it fail? Open up an issue (https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/new/choose).


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on June 14, 2023, 07:46:50 PM
Electrum's tried and tested but sometimes it just fails and when it does it fails horribly, so take using Electrum with a massive hand of salt.

Although I would agree with the fact that Hard Drive wallets are still good when it comes to saving your bitcoins. Been hearing lately that Trezor's the king but Ellipal could be as good as it in terms of security, plus the recent debacle with Trezor just rids them of that hard-earned trust and respect their users had for them, so I don't think you should dabble with this one too at least for now. Jade Wallet's great, when it comes to cost efficiency, and then Passport but that one's expensive with less features but the security I must say is top-notch.

Nothing compares to a hardware wallet in terms of security and reliability. Software wallets can be easily hacked as they're always online (although it's possible to use them offline for cold storage). The main selling point of hardware wallets is that you can use them as both a hot wallet and a cold wallet without fear of compromising your keys and/or seeds (depends if they're open source or not).

I'd take an open source hardware wallet anytime, even though most of them are expensive. Ledger will become history as competitors take its place on the market. Many people already lost confidence in it, so I doubt the company will survive with newcomers into the crypto/Blockchain space. Who knows what will happen in the future? :)


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: gunhell16 on June 14, 2023, 09:24:43 PM
It seems like when the Trezor wallet had an issue if I'm not mistaken, it was actually someone else who has control of our wallet account such as the word seed phrase and private key apart from the password of course.

There are many hardware wallets that can be used for us to trust, so always do your own research. There are many ways to know if it is safe or not. Of course, you will also balance which one has the most users of an open-source wallet, because I have only been using Electrum on my Desktop PC for a few years now.


Title: Re: Best open source hardware wallets for BTC?
Post by: Abiky on July 02, 2023, 05:16:29 PM
Not all users prioritize the same level of security or have the same technical knowledge when storing cryptocurrencies. I found that while Ledger did face criticism for their handling of the situation, the incident did not directly affect the security of the hardware wallet itself. The compromises related to the disclosure of customer data remain intact. It's worth mentioning that if open-source hardware wallets are your top priority, then you should consider Trezor, Coldcard Wallet, and BitBox. These wallets have been known for their commitment to open source principles, allowing the community to review and verify code for added security.

Ledger provided a whitepaper describing how its "recovery service" works. But I don't think that's enough to gain the trust of veteran crypto users like me. Why didn't Ledger decide to open source the firmware of its "Nano" devices? Is it because they're hiding something?

Anyhow, I'm glad we have plenty of open source hardware wallets to choose from. Things would've been worse if Ledger was the only manufacturer of hardware wallets. Closed source is the antithesis of crypto, in my opinion. Ultimately, time will tell us if Ledger will survive with stiff competition in the crypto/Blockchain space. As long as decentralization/censorship-resistance wins, we should have nothing to worry about. ;)