Bitcoin Forum

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/federal-reserve-launches-fednow-instant-payment-service-bypass-venmo-p-rcna95380

The U.S. Federal Reserve has launched a long-awaited service which will aim to modernize the country’s payment system by eventually allowing everyday Americans to send and receive funds in seconds, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the central bank announced on Thursday.

Seems like this could be a good thing for people living in the USA. If I could send money using this thing internationally to anyone why would I need bitcoin?

FedNow will be supported by the USA CBDC.

It makes sense to see their governmental authorities have been trying to do more aggressive legislation bills and regulatory activities against cryptocurrency. They do all such to support their CBDC in future but I still see some positive supports from Congress members, Senators latest months.

I believe that the launch of CBDC and FedNow will not be completely negative for their citizens. I look at it with this view, those things will expose many people to digital transfers and after they are familiar with it, I hope some of them will look for alternatives, better than CBDC and FedNow. It will be times for them to look at Bitcoin and cryptocurrency as better alternatives for CBDC.

You answered yur own question without really realising. It's a national payment service, for USD. North America catching up to LatAm, Africa and Asia in terms of fintech.

But all of these regions who've been using SMS or QR code payments for over a decade now still find use for Bitcoin. Think bigger: sanctioned people and governments, individuals, businesses and states that the US and its allies have excluded from money/economy.

Iranians have this instant payment system. But they still have a need for Bitcoin (US dollar sanctions). Argentinians have similar but still need Bitcoin (hyperinflation).

Come on, OP, you can ask better questions.

Bitcoin has force countries to use cashless transaction which brought about the use of CBDC. But one thing I know is, the aims of these centralized cashless transaction platforms from the State Governments are different from bitcoin, they are not for the benefits of the people but for the State while bitcoin is for the people and not for the State but if the state decide to participate in bitcoin they are free. The launched of FedNow can not over shadow the uses of bitcoin in USA because the aims and goals are not the same. People will still use bitcoin there. I think Fiat Banks also use instant payment methods. If care is not taken, Fiat Banks payment is even faster than bitcoin, because I have seen and experienced instant transfer and received alert instantly from Fiat Banks. And op what you are saying is only for Nation (USA) and not to another country but remember, bitcoin transaction is to cross boarders.

it can't safe us from inflation. if government keep printing money as they want, then value of our money will keep decrease. even I am not sure that our fiat money is backed by gold, if its backed by gold why gold price keep rise?. for me I still need bitcoin whether as currency or investment. fast transaction is only one of many bitcoin advantages. I just feel that Bitcoin is safe me from the government arbitrary action in economy. I am okay to use fiat money because I still need it for my daily life, but have some amount of bitcoin will make my life happier.

Do you seriously not understand the difference between centralized fiat (and its alternatives) and decentralized money that is bitcoin after 2 years of being in this forum? Or are you just joking around with this?

I will say it’s just good for the Americans. Their government is welcoming new way of transacting within their country so yeah that’s good for them. I don’t think it has got any negative impact on the Bitcoin usage or crypto as whole. It’s just a payment system for their people, that is all. It will be limited to their own people, hardly think it will get out of USA. If it does then there is no difference between so called traditional banking and fednow system. India also has UPI for that matter, but it doesn’t mean people started using UPI and stopped Bitcoin. Both the ends are just opposite. I don’t know why it’s being compared with Bitcoin. The Bitcoin properties are unmatched by all means.

Yes! It is very similar to the system used in India called UPI. The only difference here is that, US will use E-doller to make this system work. From what I understand, it will bring in revolution in the digital payments in US which wouldn't need intervention from your bank. Payments will become cheaper and faster. But along with all the facilities, Americans will loose another layer of financial privacy.

Bitcoin is made for a different reason. It is made to keep your financial privacy intact. So the introduction of a faster payment system, has no impact on bitcoin.

You shared a good piece of information but it's little bit rusty (old). But still, this topic need no discussion but dear OP, your query do need some answers. Because this service is only available in USA not in other countries so this is the first reason for us to use BTC. Second reason is centralization and decentralization.

There are plenty of topics made on how Banks and Cryptocurrency are two different financial pathways. Even recently, i wrote an article in which i tried to tell the potential of BTC over Banking sector. --> To Understand the Potential of BTC, What we Must Know? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5460099.msg62563616#msg62563616). Well, other than this there are plenty of differences in which BTC away the competition with Banks.

But still if you think Fednow service will not be manipulated by government and will be dealt as decentralized (which will not). Then you must check the maximum limit they are offering according to the article link you aforementioned.
And i hope you better now there is not limit in BTC transactions.

I sense your unease with this information, and it's essential to remember that we are dealing with government-related matters. Unlike Bitcoin, the primary purpose of this particular currency is not for transactions. Instead, if you choose to transact with it, be aware that your activities will be closely monitored, even across international borders. Additionally, the currency being traded lacks the ability to experience significant price fluctuations, and there are no returns on holding it.

There is no question to asking. Just some observations.  i already understand FedNow is not for international transfers. But if it was then I really wouldn't see the use of bitcoin unless someone is just an investor like gold.

So I guess that means you get paid in bitcoin while most people get paid in fiat. They don't care about how much bitcoin their paycheck is worth they care about what it can buy them at the grocery store or somewhere else.

Having bitcoin is nice but let's be honest, it's not convenient to use. You can't even use it on ebay and why would you want to? I would use a credit card that has some type of cash back reward, not something that is going to COST me to use...


The system lets Americans pay for groceries instantly, businesses pay their suppliers, or people pay each other. It will be available 24 hours a day, every day of the year, with full access to funds immediately.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fed-launches-new-payments-system-that-lets-you-send-money-in-seconds-140305052.html

As far as I'm concerned, this FedNow might be just another reason for people to not have to use bitcoin. For them to not use it. It's up to them though. Zelle was pretty convenient and fast but they're a company. No one wants to trust a single company...but if you can't trust your government then you're in a problem!


How does one come to the conclusion that they first had fiat which was centralized and can't be trusted but all the sudden they turned it into something called bitcoin that is not centralized and can be trusted? Did they suddenly break the bonds of the government just by sending their US dollars to Coinbase and clicking on the "buy bitcoin" button? I doubt it. If anything, they're going to be scrutinized and monitored even more than someone that just keeps their money in a good old bank account. How is something decentralized when you have to report every single transaction you did where you sold some bitcoin? It's not.

If bitcoin wasn't encumbered so heavily by the IRS I might have a better feeling about it.  :o

There are people that hold bitcoin, it is not used for only payment. There are people that use bitcoin for trading too. There are people that will use bitcoin for payment, which can even be cheap, depending on the mempool congestion. Some people sending using lightning network with zero fee or very low fee and the payment is very fast.

Not convenient to use but miner are confirming thousands of bitcoin transactions in each block mined. Also bitcoin lightning payment is increasing. You should not be have self-centered opinion about this. There has been many platforms that I have seen bitcoin payment, at least I have even used it directly before for payment.

I'm basing my opinion on the OP and the article, this sounds like a good thing especially for fiat because now you don't need a bank open to deposit or withdraw your money. Maybe if there's a way where they can demonstrate how it works and how to use it, so it becomes easily adopted by their people. What worries me though is that there's no transaction fee which means that they haven't found a way to make sure that banks continue using the system, I hope that the transaction fee system would come from the Federal Reserve and not be shouldered by banks which is going to make it complicated since different banks will definitely do different systems.

Only for American citizens, if the FedNow service is considered it can be a convenience.


Come on bro. You have to learn again to distinguish between Bitcoin and fiat.
Many great people in the world recognize the ease of transacting with Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not the same as fiat currency. Learn how fiat currency systems and functions, don't just use it.

The FedNow service may be a good thing for people living in the USA, but it is not a substitute or a threat to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is more than just a payment system; it is a revolution in money, society, and technology, which FedNow is most definitely not.

I think the rank on this platform doesn't mean it will represent the level of knowledge one has. Because me as a newbie think that i better understand why we needed BTC and why we don't need fednow service. One of the many reasons are:

• BTC is decentralized and not managed by some single entity or governments thus cannot be stopped by them while FedNow can be stopped by government.
• BTC provides you full ownership without showing your personal identity while on FedNow you have to fill forums and have to integrate with Banks
• Banks always manipulate your money whether you use their service FedNow to send from one place to another, the transaction could be used too, For bad purposes. But BTC transactions cannot be manipulated.
• You have a limit on sending and receiving money through FedNow while if you are going to send or receive money on BTC core wallet or any SPV wallet then you have no limits.

I think these facts are enough to remind you why we need BTC and why we don't need some instant payment service.

FedNow service is not related to a digital currency? Noted, but when people start using FedNow service and CBDC join the chain this will open the eye of many into Bitcoin, something stats obviously better than FedNow and CBDC combined.

FedNow will be eye-opening to decentralization, it looks like it's not going to favor crypto right now but it will eventually because some people who keep their distance from everything apart from Banks will start getting curious.

It took them long enough. Europeans have been doing that for many, many years!

I hope it's never too late for you to realize their plan to redivert your trust and interest on a decentralized digital network (bitcoin) to ensure they get you convinced they can offer you better and seemless service through their traditional fiat system through the introduction of their own digital version of central bank digital currency, anything aside bitcoin is not worth going for, CBDC is not cryptocurrency and the people were after cryptocurrency and not CBDC, anything that has to do with government regulations and control over your financial assets should be kicked against, don't wait till it becomes too late for you to realize they have censorship over anything coming under their authority, except you don't need freedom, bitcoin is the best currency and asset s at today and beyond.

We have the same instant money transfer in our country known as UPI. It has been in existence for a few years now and has been a big success. The only issue is that we still cannot use it for international money trasfer. The reason being other countries need to upgrade thier banking technology. Do you think other countries would be ready to do it? Obviously not and this why Bitcoin cannot be ignored. It will always remain important untill the government of every country agrees to one currency and payment network.

It looks to also be a big FU from the government to shitty banks. All banks suck, some are worse then others. And other merchants play games.
Send a payment from your checking account to pay a bill. You sent it at 3PM, the cutoff for being late was 6PM. Your bank says they sent it at 3PM the other people say they got it the next day, so here is your late fee. And then you either waste time and money trying to get it taken care of or just pay the late fee.

Here, the US government says you got it at 3:01 PM, go ahead and call them a liar and charge a late fee, see how that works for you.

-Dave

These are entirely different and irrelevant arguments involving bitcoin price which has nothing to do with the decentralized versus centralized subject. When you use centralized currency you are still at the mercy of the centralized authority, if they want to charge back the money you received they can do it easily, if they want to shut down your account they can do it in a blinking of an eye, if they want to put their hands in your pocket and take some of your money they can do that too, and a lot more. They can't do any of it when you use decentralized money.

You should not want to do that because ebay is centralized and it doesn't mix well with decentralized money. There is already alternatives  such as openbazar that are more decentralized and are suitable.

So someone thinks that the word "instant" solves all problems with the financial system and makes Bitcoin absolutely unnecessary? In that case, in some other parts of the world, Bitcoin has long been a "lost cause".


Maybe that's your experience, but mine is completely the opposite because I've shopped and have the opportunity to buy and pay with BTC for a lot of things, even food and everything you can find in a supermarket. It's a completely different thing that people don't want to use BTC as a means of payment and always find some excuse for it, because if we're going to be honest, most of them just want to make a profit and it doesn't matter to them at all why Bitcoin was created.

The FED just has to come up with a new slogan and BTC will go down in history (at least as far as the US is concerned) ::)

Damn, so Fednow is for banks and credit unions? I can't stop laughing right now because few projects came into crypto space using the name FedNow to attract their customers and it worked, now that FedNow is saying it's not in relation with any digital currency I am wondering what it happening to such projects right now.

This is why we need to be careful with many alt projects this days, most of them are build on the impossible hype, they will never work out and the only thing their adopters have is hope, they will keep hoping it work in the end.

There are many projects that plan to replace Amazon and other, many claim they are the Amazon of crypto and stuff but everything faded away, be wise and always care about taking your profits only.

You've spent to much time in the shitcoins section!
It's not crypto, it's not an altcoin, it's not some random ICO, it's a payment system just like many others created by the Federal Reserve!
Leaving aside centralization and of course not having control over your money this is far more legit than any altcoin in history!


It might not sound like much to us but for Americans who still cling to checks, it's going to be big.
Of course, Bitcoin won't care but when it comes to the so-called stable coins, for them this might be a bit different since fiat will get just as fast as cryptos backed by fiat, so...

Why would you need Bitcoin? Simple. To protect yourself from the negative effects of inflation. Not to mention, nobody can touch your Bitcoin (unlike Fiat currencies such as the US Dollar and the Euro). The "FedNow" system is just a "glorified" digital USD with centralization at its core. I don't think it uses Bitcoin's revolutionary blockchain tech. Even if it does, the fact that it's centralized is a deal breaker for me. This will give both the Federal Reserve and the government more power over people's transactions. It's surveillance at its fullest. With Bitcoin, you'll get a level of privacy and freedom not found anywhere else.

I know most people will "stick" with the USD because of convenience. But that doesn't mean BTC will die in the long run. Decentralization and censorship-resistance has kept the pioneer cryptocurrency afloat after all these years. I'm pretty sure it'll survive for generations no matter what schemes mainstream governments come up with. Who knows if BTC will live alongside the USD forever? Just my thoughts ;D

I believe their digital payment system won't be able to rival Bitcoin in any case. The swiftness of their digital payment system is confined to the US alone, while Bitcoin transcends borders, making it a global option for transferring money. The universality of Bitcoin is a compelling reason for people to prefer it. Even if the US digital payment system were granted global access, it would still be a centralized fiat currency, unlike Bitcoin, which remains decentralized. Consequently, no other digital currency can match Bitcoin's unique attributes.

i understand how companies like western union can close someone's account without any explanation. but just because someone is using bitcoin doesn't mean they aren't accountable for reporting how every single satoshi is spent. that has to be reported to the IRS. and if the IRS wanted to sieze your bitcoin they could demand to know your private keys. and if you didn't turn them over they could put you in prison. just like if you had gold stored in a bank vault somewhere, you can't hide that from the IRS because that's called tax evasion. if you lie about your assets I mean.

apparently openbazaar closed down in 2021 according to wikipedia. so i guess that means it was a failure no big surprise there. no one wants to buy stuff from people they don't even know unless there is a company backing it all up willing to make things right if things go wrong. that includes things like free shipping, giving refunds even if the seller won't, etc.

Who still uses checks though? Even in america I doubt anyone does that very much. Except sending out stimulus payments so they get a chance to get lost in the mail....that's how behind the times america was they had to send out peoples' emergency stimulus checks using the postal service rather than deposit electronically. sad but true for many people.

This is nothing new really under the sun, it's swift 2.0 other countries have had this technology for years. It's the same people who brought you fractional reserve banking, now it's just a bit faster. It's more or less a glorified telecom accounting messaging system for banking money. Its like a protocol they use, its the new global standard for banks. Why would you use bitcoin instead? Because it's entirely separate from these corrupt systems, bitcoin is a whole other animal over the hedge. It is the hedge.

Because other services like that is already existing in other countries, like UPI. Money transaction internationally will not be easy using this new service as other countries' banking system needs to be updated to these changes. Hence, people who are already using bitcoin will stick to it for convenience.

Maybe for some people, they will use FedNow for their transactions which are fast and easy from their account. But for me who is more confident with the decentralized and anonymous Bitcoin system, I prefer to use Bitcoin for my transactions. Because even though FedNow offers speed, they don't offer anonymity and privacy protection which is very important for me personally. It's up to people to use FedNow, but there are still many people who prefer to use Bitcoin for their transactions, and I am one of those people.

https://www.pymnts.com/news/b2b-payments/2022/81-pct-firms-still-use-checks-to-pay-businesses-at-least-occasionally/

2023 and 2022 surveys, so checks are still in use!
Of course, is not like before but when a single company has over 100 locations in NY alone for cashing checks there still must be demand.


You can use WU without an account, just like most international money transfers.

But Bitcoin already does this!

Bitcoin - decentralized consensus rules, your own private keys => your money, nobody can track you or forcibly seize your money if you stay non-custodial.

CDBCs - centralized policy, Fed's private keys => your money belongs to the government, your money is completely transparent to anyone (including hackers) who can also take away your money more easily if they gain privileged security authorization.

Satoshi invents decentralized crypto, and these blokes figure out how to make cryptocurrency like centralized, unstable fiat trash.

FedNow advances modernizing the American banking sector. This long-awaited move could alter company practices. This strategy has several advantages, including instant money. Comparing this to Bitcoin may be apples and oranges. They have various purposes and ideas. FedNow wants to simplify banking transactions, but Bitcoin provides privacy, security, and freedom from central authority. FedNow lets you send money worldwide, but Bitcoin may be better if you want to keep your finances private or avoid fiat currency instability

Some people have commented that FedNow will have $500,000 transaction limit. And act like that's a downside but yet ask those same people if they would be willing to send $500,000 to coinbase in one single ACH so they could buy bitcoin with it.  :o


Until bitcoin is integrated into my bank so that I can hold bitcoin with my bank and convert it back and forth into fiat through their website then bitcoin will be less convenient, more risky and more costly to use for "sending money". I like convenient things and I don't like sending money to third parties who have terrible customer support, if any at all. When it comes to MY money.

You keep forgetting about the IRS. Why would you want to buy a cup of coffee using bitcoin when you know that's going to have to be reported to them?

FedNow has nothing to do with a CDBC. It's just a way to transfer fiat electronically. They're not digital dollars, they're real dollars you could withdraw too.

Exactly. Why would people stop using Bitcoin after the inception of FedNow? After all, they won't get the same level of privacy and freedom with a government-backed digital currency. The US government is not that stupid. This new system will make them bigger and stronger than ever. It will become the cornerstone of their new CBDC. I seriously doubt the government would be using Blockchain tech for this. Even if they did, it won't be a Blockchain because of its utterly-centralized design.

I once thought the US was going to use the XRP Ledger for its own digital USD, especially when XRP is a tried-and-tested network. A pity because this will leave XRP behind in the dust. Who knows what impact will FedNow have over the US Dollar's dominance as the world's reserve currency? Just my thoughts ;D

Enlighten me, please. What similar system have we been using?

I am rather surprised to learn that USA didn't have this service. I suppose most European countries already developed similar system. In my country we have a service called "FAST" that does same job 7/24. Anyways its obvious federal currency+banking systems were lagging behind in technology of cryptocurrency so they are trying to capture audience back again. But I think its bit too late to think that coiner will return to fiat money.

Yes. FedNow have done it and in my opinion this is a new breakthrough and is seen as a positive step for domestic transactions in the US. In this case, they only provide centralized and convenient payment options within the country. But it should be noted together that FedNow is still under the control of the central bank, which is a centralized authority.


Seen from another point of view. Perhaps, some individuals still prefer the decentralized nature of cryptocurrencies because it reduces the control of a central authority and traditional banking institutions. Well, here I argue, It may not meet the needs of those seeking cross-border transactions, increased financial privacy for the unbanked, which we all know Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have unique advantages, such as seamless transactions, lower cross-border transfer fees, and a level of anonymity.

So, for Bitcoin and other digital assets in terms of still having an advantage in terms of international transactions although FedNow also offers the advantage of being supported by a central authority and integrated with existing financial infrastructure.

Bitcoin might be decentralized but people are not decentralized unless they renounce their usa citizenship. They still have to pay taxes. Still are accountable for how they use bitcoin. Right now the government doesn't really demand to know the identities of everyone they transact with and for what purposes but they could. And people would have to comply with that. So it's just an illusion that bitcoin really gives anyone any control. The government is the one in control in any event. No matter if they use bitcoin or just traditional fiat. But enjoy the illusion, is what I say!  :o


i don't think bitcoin helps the "unbanked" what does that term even mean? does it mean someone without a traditional checking account? because if you don't have one of those how do you even pay your bills? you don't. i guess you just live off the grid without power from the power company and raise chickens or something...

I agree. It's a good change that will surely help a lot of people in a way (at least in the US), but it can't be compared to Bitcoin. Majority of individuals will still prefer decentralized currency which is very beneficial for international transaction. That is such a unique thing about Bitcoin that many cannot trade for other currency system.

SEPA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area). Before that, most national transactions between different banks were already instant, and before that, at least the transactions within the same bank were instant. Nationally, we've had iDEAL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL) since 2005, which is mainly used for instant payments to webshops. It has much lower costs than credit cards.
I'm surprised US banks couldn't do this on their own, now the FED has their name on it. Now that I think about it: CBDCs have the same problems: Central Banks promoting themselves by putting their name on it, just so the average person doesn't realize they don't share their interests.

That would be where you live, or in the UK for example, where transfers are generally instantaneous. In Spain, SEPA transfers currently take up to one working day to be reflected in the destination account, or up to two if you do it after the cut-off time. There are some banks that offer instant transfers but it is not widespread. Although I see that in the USA before this it took several days to be reflected, as it has not happened in Europe for a long time, so it took them a while to modernise.

Isn't that only because the sending bank still earns interest during the time they delay the transaction?

And we still pay a few dollars to send someone money in 30 minutes. All those dreams about having some sort of result where you can see the world using bitcoin all around? Thats just pure dream and not going to happen at all. How could it, we have instant payment everywhere all around the fiat world. You go to any store, any shop, any diner, you pay for the things you get, do you wait? Of course not. I can understand payment, because banks get a cut from the payment as well, not this much but they still do, and they are more reliable as well, there is no clogged chain or anything. I am sure that this is going to end up very bad for the whole world if bitcoin doesn't get better.

it's nice to see someone with a realistic point of view. bitcoin has a long way to go if it wants to appeal to people that like to buy things and do it quickly on the spur of the moment. we may never get there in the usa. i mean bitcoin already is fully mature and no one is using it to buy things right now! everyone is just hodling it like it's going to be worth some huge amount of money someday. well if it doesn't have a practical real world use then how can it be a store of value? how can something that no one really uses in their daily life have a large value?

if you took the benefits of fednow which is the ability to send your bitcoin directly from your bank account to someone else's bank account instantly with little or no fee 24/7/365 then bitcoin would be worth alot. it would have a use case and i would expect it's value to reflect that. until something better came along if it ever did!

Didn't mean to insult or roast the US.but for a country that has very advanced tech, and so many inovation. The banking system in the U.S seems like archaic. I am from a 3rd world country, and I have enjoyed the instant transfer between different bank, 24/7 for years. Start with the Cellular SMS Banking, up until now the internet banking with mobile apps. It's not available for international transfer tho, so I still mainly use Bitcoin for that.

It's the law of diminishing returns: far too many people have interests in keeping the current system, and replacing it would make their existing investments worthless. If your country started later, it could skip all those steps.
Don't they still use checks in the US? We stopped using them decaces ago.

It's hard for me to understand (or just very surprising, I guess) how it's a long-awaited modernization to send and receive funds in seconds in the US, to be honest. In my low-income developing country, online banking is very popular, and people often send money this way to one another. It literally takes seconds to receive the funds, and it's just a part of everyday life. Exceptions are related to international transfers, but as long as it's something within one currency and all the banks involved belong to one country, it's almost instantaneous payments. Sometimes there's no fee, and sometimes there's, like, a 1% fee or something like that. The op mentions international payments, but it seems that the article does not, so I don't think that's what FedNow is about.

Yes. We still can't avoid the government. One way or another, they have control over everything we do in life. Still, that doesn't mean Bitcoin can't be decentralized. If the government can't control it, everything will be just fine. I see FedNow as a way for the US government to solidify the USD's position as the world's reserve currency. Payments between banks and individuals will be a lot faster and cheaper than before. This might be the new CBDC everyone was talking about.

I'm yet to see if FedNow will compete directly with BRICS' new currency in the long run. For people like us, there's nothing we need to do other than keep using BTC as an alternative to Fiat currencies. It's been doing fine since day one, so I'm certain it'll last alongside the USD for generations. Who knows how CBDCs will reshape our society? Just my thoughts ;D

The difference that makes Bitcoin and this different from each other is decentralization. Everything that involves the government is totally centralized and they do it because they want control over everyone. As long as you are using services that are provided by the government, they are in control of your personal life. Bitcoin put all of that control shit in the trash. And that's the beauty of Bitcoin. No one will have control over your things. You are the owner of your stuff.

Even if we talk this and that about Bitcoin and govt. services, it will always depend on personal preferences. Those who know about Bitcoin and what it could do, also who are concerned about their privacy. They will use Bitcoin for sure. I have never heard of anyone who knows in depth about Bitcoin not using it. Those who are ignorant or don't know about Bitcoin and have no concern about their privacy will have no problem using government-issued services. This is all about knowing. If you have enough knowledge about bitcoin, you won't ask this question in the first place.

I just don't see the upside to using bitcoin as a payment mechanism when there's much simpler things that don't incur a tax reporting requirement. No wonder people don't want to pay in bitcoin and businesses don't really care to get involved with it.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/digital-assets

Tax Consequences
Transactions involving a digital asset are generally required to be reported on a tax return.

Taxable income, gain or loss may result from transactions including, but not limited to:

Sale of a digital asset for fiat
Exchange of a digital asset for property, goods, or services
Exchange or trade of one digital asset for another digital asset
Receipt of a digital asset as payment for goods or services
Receipt of a new digital asset as a result of a hard fork
Receipt of a new digital asset as a result of mining or staking activities
Receipt of a digital asset as a result of an airdrop
Any other disposition of a financial interest in a digital asset


Here in the USA, if you wanted to send money instantly used to be you had to use western union. Get the cash out of your bank account and go send it at some western union retailer. Then it would be instant. Then these services like Zelle started popping up. If you don't mind trusting a unknown company like Zelle maybe you would think everything was perfect but it's not. Zelle just popped up like a mushroom after the rain. And it could be gone just as fast...

Some banks don't even let you send money out. They don't support Zelle and they want to charge you a fee if you try and do an ACH out to another one of your bank accounts which an ACH can take DAYS.

Where do you live because in my country it does do the same as yours.

I'm living in a small city in Indonesia but dozen of merchants now is using QR-code for their list of payment system and there is a bunch of Electronic wallet here and digital bank.
the QR can be scanned from different e-wallet or bank and go through one system.

and you can send from bank to another bank very cheap from $0.66 and now become $0.17 because system called BI-Fast maybe similar with FedNow.

But for internationally transfer it still better to use Crypto rather than fiat

I don't think so, because the bank doesn't need that to make money. When you deposit money in the bank, that money becomes an entry in your account and they put it in with the rest of the capital that they play with to earn interest.

As for the transfer, I don't see that it adds anything if the issuing bank A has a certain amount of money 3 days more than the receiving bank B, because bank B to bank A will also issue transfers and then it will be bank B that will take advantage of that money to earn interest. I think it was more an inefficiency of the system.

It's good to see the US government helping out their citizens in this manner for a change, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still centralised and popular cryptocurrencies like BTC, LTC etc will always be better in several key areas.

These instant services are just great alternatives to crypto in some situations in my opinion.

As long as they don't remove physical FIAT completely, this is a good move going forward. We all know that it is not going last forever though. Sooner or later they will make their move to remove FIAT from circulation and then this new CBDC network will become a digital prison. You can only escape it using bitcoin. Some people think CBDC's will make bitcoin obsolete. Actually it is completely the opposite. Bitcoin will become even more popular when people find out the bullshit they are being fed with FEDCOIN.

Removing physical FIAT is not as easy as it looks like. Yes, perhaps the sudden emergence of these digital currencies may look like it will soon bring physical FIAT down, but it will take years. The changes, adaptation, acceptance and adjustment of the public will play a major role in this. But I do agree that if this happens Bitcoin will become more popular, but it will be long in the future.

realistically how many people carry much cash around these days. when's the last time most people paid anything in cash? they use debit cards, credit cards and then pay those bills electronically from their bank account never seeing a dollar bill. i think 75% of Americans could barely notice if they couldn't withdraw physical cash. point being, I think American society has already adjusted to treating their money electronically and not physically.  so in a certain sense I'd say a majority of Americans already are living under a CDBC type system even though it's optional. but they don't have any issue with it

I was going to say the same thing, but maybe the real change is, its is now more reliable? I mean there will now be lesser maintenance but at the end of the day, it was still centralized and any things can still happen like they can freeze your account or your money even if there is no real reasons or you did not commit a violation, so yeah I agree that it is better to use Bitcoin because it is decentralized and we have a freedom to do whatever we can with our money as long we also use a full decentralized wallet for it.

I'm not biased so I will also admit that BTC has its disadvantages and that is the transactions around it are not instant. By this, we need to practice having a good patience.

I mean for everyone who's living in the US, this kind of remittance system is just perfect especially since it's carefully formulated within the US demographic including all their wants and needs. The thing is, it might not bode well for the rest of the world if such a feature is implemented worldwide. The reason why bitcoin is winning in the global remittance battle is because well, it's faster, cheaper, and at the same time decentralized and anonymous. If fednow is to be implemented worldwide it wouldn't see use especially with users who wishes to stay anonymous while sending their payments, plus not every country is dollar-backed so the discrepancy of conversion is also there although this is minor compared to the former dilemma.

Weird how much governments are dragging so far behind on payment systems that this only happens now. Paypal has existed 24 or so years. Mobilepay in Finland has existed 10 years and banks still keep fighting each other and it might take more than a day to move money between banks in here. Unless you do it with mobilepay which is instant. It's like big players don't even care.

This is definitely a step up from them, at least in US. I still find it weird how this wasn't happening 10 years ago.

People truly don't understand Bitcoin's value proposition. It's not about making money with it, but rather using it as an alternative to existing Fiat currencies. By using it, you're getting freedom and privacy in return. In some ways, you'll be "liberated" from the evil clutches of central banks and governments alike. After all, these entities can't freeze or touch your Bitcoin.

FedNow is just a centralized ledger meant to benefit banks more than individuals using it. I believe it's the incarnation of the US Dollar in digital form (CBDC). This won't affect Bitcoin whatsoever. That is if Bitcoin remains decentralized for long. The day Bitcoin becomes centralized (I hope it never happens) will be the day when governments will win. Who knows if FedNow will make so-called stablecoins a thing of the past? Just my thoughts ;D

At the end of the day, convenience is what people want and if you make it easy for them to use then that's what most people will use. I'm not sure exactly how long it takes until FedNow is at every bank but when that day comes, I don't see anyone thinking that bitcoin is a solution for sending money to someone else within the USA. They'll be using FedNow for everything. And they'll wonder why bitcoin would be useful since it requires them to first send their money to somewhere like coinbase which takes how long and then they have to trust coinbase to let them buy bitcoin and not freeze their account and coinbase doesn't even have a phone number they can call unlike their bank? I don't think so... :o

You have a good point here. People will always go for convenience. No matter how better bitcoin is, if there is a different system that will be easier for them to use and is available everywhere then people will always go for that. Moreover, people will go for the one they feel secure with. 

Well, even if this is centralized and government controlled... I still think misinformed people will follow like sheep and use this service. Most people trust everything that governments dish up for them.... just look at the chaos that Covid Jabs caused and how many people bend the knee.  ::)

This will start in the US and it will spread like a digital virus and before we know it, people will have something implanted in their body to access it and the government will have full control over how you spend your money. (If they do not want you to donate to a truck riot cause.. then they will block all payments to that platform from that chip)

I don't have enough information about FedNow but I want to make sure those who know about this. Is FedNow adopting CBDC or not?. I think this system is a bit different from CBDC. Or maybe I'm wrong.

But from the link the OP attached, I was quite surprised because several countries already had a system like FedNow a few years ago. Examples include England, India, Brazil and several others. Doesn't this mean that the Fed is a little late in the competition. Or maybe the Fed is being more careful in developing this system. because from the link attached by the OP it is written that this system has been in development since 2019. But whatever it is I think this is a good step in the world of a country's finances. because the current transaction speed should be one of the main points to be resolved.

Indeed, and it looks like that is really the main purpose of what they are doing from the very beginning. I even heard something and I don't know if it's just a rumor, but it seems to be true that the U.S. is planning to make Bitcoin a back-up of the Dollar.

Because after all, the U.S. dollar doesn't have any back-up even if it doesn't have gold, so Bitcoin is probably the only key left for them to have a back-up to the dollar. And I don't see anything wrong if they actually do it.

If you are considering convenience, bitcoin will always be the best option. You don't need to have an account in any bank and go through any verification process. All you just need is to download or buy a wallet and hold your coin. It will take a simple process of inputting an address or scanning a code and clicking a button to send or receive money. Who said you can only use bitcoin through centralized exchanges?  They are the least to consider for bitcoin transactions because you can always use P2P. Using Bitcoin is more convenient in terms of speed, simplicity, privacy, and when cost of transactions (Lightning Network).

That's a big question to me as well since I thought the US is very advanced too when it comes to technology but I think I'm wrong when it comes to their financial system. Well, this is one of the reason why they are restricting cryptocurrency since they have the plan to create their own. Let's see if FedNow will support US CBDC because if they do, for sure it will be a centralized one that will force their citizen to adopt, and hopefully they will remain neutral with cryptocurrency.

unless you're performing some type of service for it and getting paid in bitcoin then i don't see how you could not need a bank account to be able to get bitcoin? where does your money come from to buy bitcoin? that's right. from your bank account. you either send that money to somewhere like coinbase or you withdraw it and meet up with somebody and hand your cash over to them and hope they send you bitcoin in return.

most people have jobs that pay them electronically into their bank account via direct deposit here in the USA so not needing a bank account pretty much means you dont need a job. i guess some people might still get paper checks but guess what? they have to go cash it and where are they going to do that? that's right. at their bank. if they don't have a bank then who is going to cash it for them? that's right. nobody wants to cash a check for someone that is not even their customer. so they have to use check cashing services which probably charge fees.  :o

yeah sure you can install a bazillion btc apps on youir phone but who is going to send you bitcoin and why would they do that? because you gave them fiat? and how are you getting your fiat? and how are you transferring it to them? that's right by using your bank account in some way most likely...

So you don't have a bank account but you keep all your fiat under a mattress. Then you use some of it to convert to bitcoin. Anytime you need to pay a bill, you have to go in person to the business or someone that accepts payments on their behalf and pay the bill in cash. Sounds really inconvenient. most people just pay their bills electronically using autopay even! If you ever end up in a situation where you can't find someone to trade bitcoin for fiat or vice versa then you're really in a pickle... :o


Well, just think of the Zelle service and how that thing spread like wildfire and that was a 3rd party company. I think FedNow will kind of put Zelle out of business since it's going to do the same thing at some point, if it does, say goodbye to Zelle. No one will need it anymore. But people used Zelle like crazy. If it was good enough for their bank to be recommending it to them and integrating it into their online banking then it was good to go! You can bet it will be the same thing with FedNow times 100.

Zelle is free though. I'm not sure if transfers with FedNow will be completely free. That might be the only thing that saves Zelle from extinction.

In other words, whatever the banks go with is what the people will use. Since they trust their banks...

Your arguments are not baseless because they explain the current condition of the global financial system. According to research, only 4.2% of the population of the world uses cryptocurrencies. The dominant means of payment in the world is fiat and it will remain like that for who knows when. For now, Bitcoin cannot compete with fiat because the global financial system is more fiat oriented and people are forced to use it because they have no other option. Like you rightly pointed out only a few people earn bitcoin, therefore if you have to buy the coin, you need fiat to make payment. I don't think anyone can survive in the world without using fiat for payment.

But my view is that Bitcoin will be more convenient to use if it enjoys the same popularity and support fiat enjoys. Assuming Bitcoin becomes a generally acceptable currency globally and every employee is allowed to choose his medium of payment (fiat or Bitcoin). And Bitcoin is freely used to make payments for goods and services in any firm globally. If all these happen Bitcoin will become a highly competitive alternative. Let government stop all these bans and regulations and everyone will see how popularly bitcoin will become.

With this new service by the Federal Reserve,  the major difference or defining feature should come in how much fees each transaction will attract , but don't see this getting any cheaper than what cryptocurrencies offer today!!

Btw, just hope this move isn't trying to make crypto irrelevant in the USA and get other countries building such for themselves,  otherwise crypto is here to stay thanks to its pseudonymous and anonymous nature!

This system will probably only make the fiat transfer and payment system faster and nothing more. Because basically the fiat used will still be affected by inflation which will continue to occur from year to year. So the role of crypto will remain strong in the world of digital finance. Because crypto has advantages in this type of investment. Be it as a commodity asset or as a security. So crypto lovers should not be affected by this.

FedNow does not appear to be a CBDC but this system is said by some to be the path to the implementation of a central bank digital currency (CBDC) in the United States.

Sourch: https://id.beincrypto.com/layanan-pembayaran-instan-fednow-mulai-aktif-apakah-jadi-jalan-menuju-cbdc-di-as/

I appreciate you acknowledging some of the arguments have a legitimacy.

Something else needs to happen for that to happen though. Bitcoin has been here for over 10 years now.

that's a big assumption. bitcoin has been around over 10 years now and i don't think very many employers even care about bitcoin. they don't take bitcoin as payment in their business so what's the chances they would ever offer employees to get paid in it? not very much right? if they don't have bitcoin coming in from sales they're not going to want to have to convert fiat into bitcoin using coinbase just so they can pay someone with it. only a crypto company is somewhere you would see that and they would be hypocritical if they didn't offer it...


i wouldn't trust any employer that just sent payroll off to somewhere like coinbase. because i would be worried that coinbase might sometimes freeze the account causing delays in getting paid...so they would need a better setup than just that if they really wanted to do payroll using bitcoin. but i'm not sure any exist.

I agree. A big shift in the economy and technology will need to happen first before bitcoin reaches that point of acceptance, popularity and support. It is not as easy as people think it is. Not everyone have the means and immediate acceptance to a big change that bitcoin will surely bring once that happens. Even now, there is still a big number of people that do not like using e-payments.

Never heard of them before but that's actually something good. I have always imagined that we had something like this before in most nations, we had "swift" in where I live, so sending or receiving money was already quite quick and never needed any of this.

I believe that they are just doing these things to improve what we already have, and that's a good thing we shouldn't just stand and watch, we should be considering some changes. But that doesn't mean that we are going to end up having a trouble. I believe that it is going to be fine and it is going to be good improvement on things that already exists and we should be happy about it. Maybe this isn't some new high tech amazing change, but at least it is there and it is available, good to have it then not.

Why do you think those are stupid misinformed sheep?
Are people who use banking payments all over Europe through SEPA imbecile sheep?
Do you actually know what this service is about or you're just shitting on it out of habit?


4.2% of the population means 354 million!
With 600k over BTC and 1 million over ETH, it will take 221 days for each of those "users" to make a tx.
So one tx every 7 months would qualify somebody as a user if we think nobody is making two tx in this interval!
4.2% usage is pure bullcrap, maybe 0.42%


$0.045 vs $0.41 and it doesn't matter how many inputs you have? What's cheaper?

i was hoping fednow would be completely free. $0.045 is not completely free. so if they're goal is just to be making money off people I'm not sure how big of a fan I'm going to be of that. but yeah, it's still way cheaper than bitcoin. look at this though:

https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2023/walmart-hints-at-early-fednow-adoption-while-amazon-is-mum-so-far/

this story was back in may of this year. long ago and walmart's already kssing up to fednow EVEN BEFORE IT COMES OUT. they never kissed up to bitcoin and bitcoin has been out over a decade... :o

It is not surprising that there is a fee as most transaction almost always do. And seeing that it is relatively a lot cheaper than bitcoin it will surely attract more people. It's a basic system we have here, people always go for the cheaper fees no matter what. I mean $0.045 looks better than $0.41, whoever you ask when it comes to fees.

It may only be a prototype of what's coming next. By all means, the US is serious in launching a CBDC of its own. Especially when China was the first one to do this. Whenever the Federal Reserve's new money system will use a Blockchain or not, it's yet to be seen. I really don't think it can be called a "Blockchain" because of its centralized design. More like a "digital ledger" controlled by the hands of a few. A better term for it would be Distributed Ledger Tech (DLT). This new system will give the US more power than it already has by allowing it to track and trace transactions at will. It'll be possible to manipulate the supply easily without having to go through the process of printing new banknotes/coins.

BTC won't be affected by FedNow thanks to the way it was designed. With how keen banks and governments are on retaining control of the world's economy, don't expect BTC to take over existing Fiat currencies anytime soon. It will remain an alternative to Fiat forever. I'm fine with that as long as decentralization wins in the long run. Just my thoughts ;D

It seems like the Fed is like... 50 years late to the party, but I guess businesses do take huge advantage of customers if the opportunity is there and this is an attempt to cut out excessive fees that middlemen may be taking. Hopefully it helps to reduce the money grabbing opportunities that banks have, because it feels like they're always trying to jack up prices without their costs increasing or them offering any sort of better service. It's like the fees that phone companies used to charge for sending a text message, in reality it costs them a fraction of a cent but they were charging $0.10 or more in the past for a single SMS, it was pure greed and similar will still be taking place today.

Some banks don't want you to be able to send your money OUT. So they have like a $3 fee or something if you try and do an external transfer meanwhile other banks let you do it for free. I don't know what justification there is for charging anything when most other banks don't. Other than some person wearing a tie somewhere who thinks it is a good idea. It's amazing how an entire bank can be controlled by one dumb person. But I guess with some banks, that's the case.