Bitcoin Forum

I'll tell you a little story here, I have been doing DCA for a long time and hope to continue because I always set aside every week or month to buy BTC.

I buy Bitcoin from Binance exchange and some other exchanges but the withdrawal is quite expensive, at the moment but what I often use is Binance exchange which I think is the highest exchange and with its reputation.

My DCA is not big at most per week $15/$20 sometimes once a month $50, I store on the exchange until the estimated $100 when it is reached I withdraw it to a private wallet for security because I don't want to store all assets on parties when like exchanges, therefore I am a little burdened by high fees when withdrawing - for example on Binance bitcoin withdrawal is 0.0005BTC or ($14) that money is quite meaningful to me if you think about it.

I just a little advice where to buy bitcoin with minimal withdrawal such as I buy bitcoin $20 and withdrawal fee $1, it's not heavy for me if the fee is still $1.

 :)

One solution is to save up your capital for a longer period of time before making a purchase. DCA does not have to be done every week or 2 weeks, you can do it every quarter in the year which will be every 3 months of even every 4 months.
You have enough to esave up and make larger purchases decreasing the overall fees paid.

I will recommend you use decentralized exchanges cause of the privacy they offer but I cannot recommend one which will save up on fees as you want.

First of all, you should stop using centralized exchanges. That is only if you care about your funds and your privacy. If you don't care about that, keep using CExs. If you are not aware of the risks you're facing, you may consult these topics:

• 12 years later and people still don't know to use Bitcoin nor what it's good for (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5310500)
• Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221497)

If you want to buy BTC (although I have other ideas in mind), you can do it by using a decentralized exchange, a peer-to-peer transaction or a crypto ATM. All these solutions are anonymous.


My suggestion is to produce BTC instead of buying. Meaning to offer your services and get paid in BTC. This way you may have 100% profit if you cash out. Think about what you are good at and try to obtain money from your expertise. It will help you much more.

Binance has recently added Lightning Network withdrawals and deposits few days ago, you should check the withdrawal fees for LN, they are certainly significantly lower than onchain operations. You should also compare those fees to the ones of the 2 other large and reputed exchanges already offering LN withdrawals, Kraken and Bitfinex, their fees are very interesting.
And the deposits/withdrawals through LN are quick and smooth there.

Using Binance for DCA when the withdrawal fees are so high is really not recommended. I suggest you look for a better option. One option is P2P. Ask in local communities if someone offers the option of buying and selling in person in your area. There are also P2P platforms, or you can view market offers on this forum. Just be sure to choose a reputable member or use escrow services.

All exchanges seem to have high withdrawal fees for bitcoin so far (especially centralized exchanges), but I don't know how much withdrawal fees are from decentralized exchanges like Bisq or others. My solution for you is to buy from someone whether it's someone you know in real life or someone in a forum. Make one thread, it may save more fees for you.

Centralized exchanges seem to rarely adjust withdrawal fees on bitcoin networks even though low priority transactions are processing at 8 sat/vB as I write. Paying 0.0005 for $100 worth of bitcoin assets when you make a withdrawal still seems like an expensive fees to pay for it, so explore alternative solutions.

GazetaBitcoin - I think you're right about that suggestion and I don't think it's wrong. Offering a service if the OP has some expertise would probably get him well rewarded in bitcoins - but the OP seems obligated to build a reputation and have good experience in forum for people to know him.

There are many services offered by newbies in the services section - but not many forum users are interested in their services as people tend to go for users with a high reputation and a lot of experience. Apart from services - I think the OP could also earn bitcoin in other ways that most users do these days too. Signature campaigns are another solution - that is also great to consider instead of just buying.

That's quite better than having to buy at CEX which will cost you a shipping fee which you just have to pay considering the number of Op purchases each week. The number is small, so it is necessary to find a reliable P2P service on the forum, there are many services to choose from, just need to see how their reputation is. I once made a Bitcoin purchase by directly transferring Fiat to a Bitcoin reseller and it was done quickly. And the DCA of the signature payment is a pretty good idea, it can be set aside at least 50% so that we don't have to buy again, no fees, just hold it.

Bitcoin market for work is very small and tends to favor the employers, because there's so many workers looking for jobs paid in Bitcoin. This means that the salaries might be not competitive compared to fiat economy. Not to mention that a lot of people have non-online jobs, and it would be nearly impossible for them to find a job that pays in Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is not a legal tender in most of the world.

Trying to start earning Bitcoin is a good idea, but if it's clear that it isn't working, it should be abandoned, rather than desperately trying to make it work and losing a lot of time and opportunities in the process.

P2P or just buy Bitcoin on Decentralized Exchanges. I guess that's the best solution so far.

Using Binance for DCA isn't really a good thing to do IMO especially if you are withdrawing your money there on a monthly basis, and at the same time you are investing a small amount like what you're doing. The fees will just eat your capital, and unless the price of Bitcoin goes up significantly in just a matter of weeks, transaction fees on these Centralized Exchanges really is high.

Well, if you don't want to do any of the 2, I think there's a 3rd option. To limit your withdrawing to at least once every 3 months if you aren't thinking of increasing your capital, or to just increase your money you invest if you really want to withdraw on a monthly basis.

With $14 in withdrawal fee for $100 withdrawal, it is too expensive for your small fund. It is 14% of your withdrawal value. Why do you need to use Binance and help them richer by eating your withdrawal fee?

Use decentralized peer to peer exchange, Bisq.network.
https://bisq.network/
https://docs.bisq.network/getting-started.html#fund-your-bisq-wallet
https://bisq.wiki/Trading_fees
You can use BSQ and get 50% discount trading fee.

Dollar cost averaging Bitcoin https://dcabtc.com/

Bisq.network does not have high trading volume but you buy small amount so it is helpful for you as you don't plan to buy big amount.

I have a very different approach to Dollar Cost-Averaging and I even shared it once and will do it once again.
Go to the 1D timeframe on the Bitcoin chart, put the RSI indicator and Bollinger Bands. When the price is below Bolling Band and RSI 30, I buy.
That's how I do. I am in profit despite being the market so low as I was able to predict the $40k to $20k dump. I have posted my ideas in Speculation board, go check them out.

Is it true? I tried to check my binance account, and the bitcoin withdrawal fee is only 0.00005 ($1.4) onchain withdrawal, I used the web version.

Just choose withdrawal to bch32 address or LN method (if you are good at it). As far as I can remember, Kucoin charges a lower fee for withdrawing to a bech32 address. OKX also offers a fairly competitive fee, 0.00003 ($0.83).

Haha, isn't it funny that no one, except for you, bothered to verify his claim before commenting on this thread? It's possible that he just miscounted his zeros, and that's why he came to the wrong conclusion.

I don't use Binance anymore, but I can confirm that the fee for withdrawing is currently 0.00005 BTC. However, you're mistaken about KuCoin, as they do charge a fixed fee of 0.0005 BTC for withdrawing to SegWit addresses (the same as for legacy addresses). You can check it here: https://www.kucoin.com/vip/level

It's also possible that the fee is actually lower now, and they haven't updated the information. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to verify that, and I can't recall the last time I withdrew BTC from KuCoin.

It is not recommended to do a BTC DCA (Dollar Cost Averaging) in Binance due to the exchange's high BTC withdrawal fee. I believe the best way is for you to choose decentralized exchanges where you can buy and sell Bitcoins. The second-best option, in my opinion, is through peer-to-peer trades. You can find a trade partner here in our forum or anywhere you think there are people willing to do BTC trades. Once successful, you can then store them in your secure wallet.

I think he meant about the withdrawal fee during ordinal attack, but now Binance already lowering their withdrawal fee.

As for Kucoin, it's true they charge a low fee if you use bech32 address, but AFAIK the option to withdraw using bech32 address is still on pending. Not really know about the current condition because I stopped using Kucoin when they force every customer to submit KYC.

I think with the budget you try to buy everytime youll spend on fees. I think extend your period of doing dca like instead of weekly do it monthly so you could have a bigger budget and to reduce your gas consumption.

But since you are using exchange I think the fees isnt that high I think binance have low fees or sometimes free transaction fees if they have promo.

True; and building a reputation is certainly not easy thing to do. Maybe this topic of mine would be useful for OP: Why reputation is essential on the free market (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228347). However, OP can also try to do this in his real life, not necessarily on this forum. Nowadays there are many websites where people advertise their services for those living in the same city with them or in the same country. If OP can paint walls - for example - he can try to do this job and ask the payment in BTC.


On the other hand, working on building a strong reputation on this forum may will take years and I don't know if OP has enough patience. He should be passionate about crypto (and I believe he is) but he should also get involved in various topics on the forum, come with wise arguments, contribute to discussions, earn merits and so on. Then he should also try to make some deals, prove himself that he is trustworthy... And I don't know if he is up for doing all these. Not all people are interested in debating on forum, in trying to educate themselves or help others. So this solution is a long term one and requires a lot of time, patience, dedication and enthusiasm.

If the current transaction fee is giving you a burden, then adjust your DCA method. Instead of buying weekly or monthly, try to purchase twice or thrice a year but continue to save for your extra funds. Or better yet, timing your transaction during off-peak hours because when there are less transactions, it’s withdrawal fee also decreases. But if you want to completely get rid of high transaction or withdrawal fees, use a decentralized exchange instead. Centralized exchanges are never worthy of your bitcoin purchase and even its storage.

You should use DEX or I can recommend you instant swap. I have been using PNNV.com instant swap for the last few months as I was having the same problem as you. It works perfectly fine for me by saving some good amount on fees. They charge a very little commission + on-chain tx cost only. However, instead of buying $15/$20, save up to $100 or so and then buy Bitcoin. That will be good for you. Since you are saving Bitcoin in your wallet, every time you are receiving Bitcoin = 1 input and counting which will eat a large fee when you will go for sending Bitcoin. The less frequently you receive, the less input = less fee you have to pay. And don't forget to consolidate your inputs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.0) when fee is low.

How do you use instant swap with PNNV.com? I thought it was just a live price monitor. I just checked, and I can not see a coin swap option on the site anywhere.  ???

The expensive depending on how many bitcoin you want to withdraw from the exchange, but if the OP is often making withdrawals when he already has $100 in bitcoin then I guess the fees won't be as expensive as you say. To find out more details about bitcoin withdrawal fees, you can see this table so that it is not misleading.

Source: https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee

https://i.postimg.cc/vmw8YxjZ/fee-wd.jpg

Some of the other approaches are worth trying, but the OP will also have to adjust the withdrawal method if he still wants to trade and do DCA on Binance. I see Binance has a withdrawal feature to LN addresses, fees seem cheaper than bitcoin some way others.

It's a live price monitoring website and of course they have instant swap too which wad introduced later. My bad, I have totally forgot to put the link. I was watching the final match of the Ashes, you know it was such a dramatic match that I couldn't keep myself out for a single ball from the last few overs (sad to see Aussie losing the match).
Here you go- https://pnnv.com/exchange
They have it for many months now and I have used a lot of times with more than a few thousand USD at a time. Don't take it as vouch though.

You should pile up your funds to a certain amount and when it has gotten to a significant amount,you should use it for your DCA instead of this little weekly DCA method to save you the cost on weekly transaction fees.

You use also use p2p method on a decentralized exchange for this so that you can have a high level of privacy. And if you want to use Binance then you should use the Lightning Network for your transaction, since the transaction rate with be cheaper and faster. These are the same suggestions that has been given to you by the other posters above.

I know funds and privacy are important but I've never used a decentralized exchange, now I still trust CEX to buy bitcoins, but buying at CEX doesn't mean I'm doing illegal activities right?
I had to study your thread because it's so long.  ;D

Actually there is an option for that, some local communities sell coins but the average of them is that altcoins are still very rare to sell bitcoins because maybe there are few enthusiasts so the seller only provides more altcoins. This is the version I found in the local community.
Yes, I haven't tried the P2P service for this forum, maybe in the future I will look for reputable members here.

Building a reputation is not easy, it took a long time for me to be known by many people here, but I will try in any way including when I develop in terms of the quality of the posts so that I can contribute the opportunity to be included in the signature campaign. ;D But that's still too far to think about.

When the last withdrawal was 0.0005 but maybe at this time the withdrawal was lowered by binance, still it was above $ 1.

On record, I have to understand it. ;)

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I'm not familiar with decentralized exchanges are there cheaper fees? So do you exchange DEX more often than CEX?
Then you guys suggest the lightning network, do the majority here store bitcoin on LN or onchain? As far as I know only Electrum, BlueWallet and other applications support LN.
What about hardware like Trezor does it support LN already?

Sorry guys lots of questions. ;D

You can’t expect it from Binance or any centralized exchanges. Use DEX instead and maybe you’ll be satisfied enough with its low withdrawal fee. Also, if you have the knowledge and skills to join any signature campaign, I certainly think that it’s another good idea to accumulate bitcoin aside from buying it through DCA. Or maybe apply for some side hustles online that pays btc, that way there’s no reason for you to buy anymore and complain about its high withdrawal fees everytime you try to purchase.

Right. With P2P, you can always negotiate your partner on the price that you both agreed, without the need to experience high withdrawal fees. Another solution is to involve yourself in jobs that are compensated with bitcoin. You need to acquire suitable skills of course so that you will be accepted in your job. Not definitely that you will expect a long lasting job like your day job, but at least the compensation you get could be 5x or 10x from you salary in fiat.

Since almost everyone of us here does not suggest holding funds on exchange for a long time, so saying that @OP should accumulate big enough funds to make the withdrawal unnoticeable can be viewed by many as absurd but since the fund is on Binance, in order to save a huge amounts from withdrawing regularly, @OP can do the saving then withdraw when the fund is big enough as I stated on the earlier statement.  And since it was stated that the lightning network is enabled in Binance now, I believe OP can try it and see for himself if he can save a fee while withdrawing his bought BTC regularly.

You're right, thanks for the correction.


In fact, it's almost as costly as if you bought bitcoins p2p with no service fees. You can keep your old ways, this one:
Or by changing the pattern slightly, for example your DCA basis is weekly, then withdraw it every 4 weeks regardless of your withdrawal amount in $, because the fees itself is flat.

I encourage to keep buying with the little you have but you can increase your bitcoin investment by earning the currency. If you are fortunate to acquire jobs that you can paid with bitcoin you would be able to hold more. A member the forum compiled this list of jobs and websites that one can earn Bitcoin by offering services.
Cryptocurrency Job Lists (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457166.msg62442427#msg62442427). Maybe learning or developing a skill can give you a job in any of these crypto fields.

You have been given lists of decentralized exchanges by some members. I expect you to visit their platforms, study the terms of services and check their service charges. I care much about my privacy and the safety of my funds which means CEX is my best option anytime anyway.

That's right, one of the trading tips that really works today is the DCA System. So, for what you asked above, especially in the case of WD BTC, every platform Binance or other trading exchange sometimes has errors, especially when there is a crash. During a crash, there was a change in the gas fee for the withdrawal process in BTC and that's normal. If you encounter an error like this, cancel your intention first because basically the exchange holds us back from withdrawing assets when the market crashes.

Another solution is, convert your BTC to BUSD/USDT and use the BSC network or SOL Network when you do it or send it to the address you want and I think it's better and cheaper and the gas fee charged on your transaction is the fee that applies at the time of the transaction carried out on the blockchain network, the gas fee can change at any time.

Yes, Binance P2P is an alternative option that the OP can decide to use too. Binance acts as an escrow service during the transactions. There are no fees on Binance P2P so that could be a solution that the OP needs. It is the merchants that the individual would interact with that set their own exchange rate for the various payment methods. Just as you would while being online, the individual must adhere to safety tips which includes taking the time to verify the information of the recipient and very importantly, if you start a transaction on Binance P2P platform, do not take it out of there no matter the suggestions you may receive from the merchant.

Since you've mentioned Binance and you're aching the fee that you get from withdrawing there. The best thing to withdraw is through Lightning Network. The fee as shown on one image isn't that much. I'd prefer to withdraw it on that network than the other networks that you're allowed to choose. And about your DCA, it doesn't matter how much you're buying weekly or anytime. The importance of DCA is your discipline and being consistent there beats the other strategy that others may do once in a while.

Somehow JayJuanGee has reminded me of this one topic with 1 merit - but that's good because I started to realize that you had quoted my post a while ago.

BABY SHOES - You need to know that many users who can post something useful consistently can set reasonable targets for when they should be able to move up the rankings and build their account's reputation well. You might be able to do it if you can do it consistently - but so far I haven't seen you do it. If you're having trouble doing it - I believe you should have a fixed budget to do DCA.

I am going to start out by saying that there are surely quite a few members who seem to be fighting the scenario that OP presented such as using a DEX instead of a CEX, and proclaiming that the solution to OP's problems is to get a bitcoin job and even to join a signature campaign, which OP may or may not be able to do any of those kinds of things in the short-term - or at least in a practical sense, even though they are not necessarily bad suggestions, they just aren't the scenario that OP presented in order to deal with his actual facts on the ground.

OP is largely correct about the Binance withdrawal fees if using segwit versus non segwit withdrawing.  

Coin/Token       Network                        Minimum Withdrawal       Withdrawal Fee
BTC                 Bitcoin                               0.0002                               0.00007

                      BTC(SegWit)                      0.001                                 0.0005

                     Lightning Network               0.000005                           0.000001

https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee    

So it can be a bit confusing to make sure that you are using a non-segwit bitcoin address in order to receive cheaper fees, rather than the 0.0005 BTC fees.

I am not personally against keeping some funds on exchanges, and if OP is merely buying between $50 and $100 per month on the exchange, then I have no problem letting that amount of BTC stored to build up between $500 and $1k before withdrawing it, and of course these are discretionary matters regarding how comforable any of us might be in terms of how much value to keep on an exchange and also one of the powerful things about bitcoin is having our own personal stash, so it will be important to also have a personal stash that is separate from anything held on exchanges, and perhaps the longer that we are in, the lower percentage of our overall stash would be held on exchanges and./or with third parties in any kind of way.


This is not really called DCA.  Instead you are describing a practice that would be some form of buying on dips, and surely I have no problem with the idea of buying on dips, but the practice of DCA has the potential to get a BTC newbie into building up a BTC stash without fucking around with trying to figure out the BTC price and whether it is a dip or not, and how much of a dip and whether or not it is going to keep dipping.  Sure, if any newbie has time to figure out those kinds of things, then there may be some advantages inn terms of buying some of the BTC cheaper, but there also could be risks if the newbie fails to buy enough because s/he is too busy getting greedy instead of just persistently and consistently stacking in order to build up the BTC holdings, and then maybe after 3-6 years of consistently and persistently stacking BTC, then maybe at that point, there might be some additional luxury in which strategizing to wait for dips might be an o.k. approach, even if waiting for dips might not be that great of a BTC accumulation approach for someone who does not have any BTC and/or does not have many BTCs (i.e. low coiners and no coiners).


I agree with this.  Sure, if someone is able to find ways to earn BTC, then no problems with that, yet I recall so many people back in 2014, 2015 and 2016 who were fucking around with signature campaigns and other ways to earn BTC, and they were bragging that they never bought any BTC, and yeah, they ended up with 2-5 BTC that they got for free, and maybe they could have easily ended up with more than 20 or 30 BTC if they had been buying BTC and or figuring out ways to increase their fiat income in order that they could use the extra money to buy BTC.  Remember in 2015, BTC was in the mid $200s for most of the year, so $25k spent on BTC would have resulted in 100 BTC.. and so $5k could have gotten you 20 BTC.


I doubt anyone here should be giving legal advice, and for sure, legality is going to vary from location to location, and sometimes governments regulate or overly regulate and/or ban things like bitcoin, so each of us has to make choices regarding how we are personally going to deal with those kinds of issues, and sometimes governments end up fucking their citizens through their "anti-crypto" laws, which also might include bitcoin in what they are prohibiting in one way or another.


That sounds like a good problem to have... .I have that referred to GazetaBitcoin thread on my list of threads to look at, too.


Yeah. .it is not always easy to find someone in order to both transact directly and who might want to transact with you that would end up being cheaper in terms of fees... and then also, if you are using an exchange to buy at a time of your own choosing, you can set your prices, but if you are dealing with another person, there may be timing issues, and no one is going to be on call to sell you bitcoin at the exact moment that you want, and they likely are going to prefer that the BTC prices are at a stable place when the transact with you rather than if the prices are moving around a lot.


I have never done that either, and I would imagine that if you are not very well known on the forum, some members are not going to want to transact with you until you have shown yourself to be reliable... and sometimes it might not be clear about the process of transacting, which is one of the advantages of in person transactions with cash, if you are ablle to find anyone to transact in that way.


I am not sure if lightning network completely resolves your problem, except you end up getting your BTC off of Binance with a relatively low fee, but then you still would like to ultimately move those funds to an onchain BTC wallet rather than keeping them on a lightning network wallet, so maybe using lighting network would allow you to set your own fees if you are moving your funds from your lightning wallet to an online wallet and trying to time when the fees would be best... .  

I have been using Phoenix and Breez for my lighting network wallets, but I have not really moved funds back and forth between my lightning network wallet and then to an on-chain wallet.

It's interesting, and at the same time impressive, that the amount that you have in your possession to start investing in bitcoin with does not really matter. What matters most is that you have a laid-out plan for how you want to make your accumulation and how much you have in mind to bag before a given period of time. I'd bet you that if you continue doing that nonstop, you are never going to regret it.
 
In the aspect of this withdrawal fee, this is always the problem when using centralised exchanges, as privacy and account restrictions are not just their problem, but the issue of you not being able to select what you want your fee to be like is another thing that usually bothers many, so for you to be free from such a fee, you might consider using any of the dex mentioned by other users above, as you are given the option to always select which fee you want to use, and what you select will determine how fast your coin will take before it arrives at your wallet, but it will save you a few cents, and that could also speed up your accumulation process.

My advice, if you really continue to accumulate the money you have every week/month in bitcoin assets, it's better to just keep doing that. Because if you withdraw the bitcoin assets that you have into your wallet, especially if the amount of assets is not too large, it will actually be quite detrimental to you. Examples like this. As you said, that you always accumulate your money every month $ 50. means taken the average point if two months you have earned $ 100. That way, once every two months, you withdraw the $100 bitcoin assets into your wallet, at a cost of $14.

This means that in a year, you can withdraw bitcoin assets into your personal wallet, if you average it out, that can be 6 withdrawals. That way, you also mean paying the withdrawal fee for 6 times. Then if the monthly withdrawal fees are added, it amounts to $ 84, and the bitcoin assets you collect for a year total $ 516. So you could say that the bitcoin assets that you have collected over the course of a year, are taken approximately during the two months that you have accumulated money, for withdrawal fees. So my suggestion is that it is better to withdraw the Bitcoin assets that you already have, at least every 6 months or once a year. So the withdrawal fee will be less, compared to withdrawing once every 2 months.

But that's just a suggestion, because basically it's quite risky, if you keep storing bitcoin assets on a centralized exchange. So it is indeed safer if you store bitcoin assets in a personal wallet. So it all depends on your decision.

In my country, there are a few p2p local exchanges that can sell Bitcoin directly to you, but for any amount of Bitcoin you buy, they will deduct $3.

For example, if you buy $300 of BTC, you will receive $297. So, I don't know the country you are in; if they have any such local p2p, you will need to look at their terms to see if they are favorable. But if that can't be possible, then I would suggest you look for a DEX that you can buy your Bitcoin from, although I don't know how much their own withdrawal fee can be. You can better still save your fund in Fiat, and any time you have accumulated up to $100, you can just buy it at once instead of buying it $20 by $20 all the time, which will make you spend more money anytime you buy a small amount.

I also thought about the same solution to avoid the cost of buying bitcoins on exchange or P2P, the purpose of investing DCA method is to avoid the risk of fluctuations in the crypto market and we have to analyze the market to buy bitcoins at low prices, so we still have time to save 100 USD every week/month for investment funds.

However, each trader/investor runs a different DCA strategy and I focus on analyzing the market to buy at lower prices and collect funds every week in USDT before deciding to convert to Bitcoin. If the results of my analysis show doubts about future market price movements then I prioritize the option of collecting USDT for several months, because patience is the main thing in crypto investment and prioritize this advice "it is better to miss investing at market correction prices than regret not having reserve funds when market price is bearish".

Overall, I don't have any problem with your strategy erep, but it still seems to be a strategy that would have better chances of working well for someone who has already built a decent BTC stash, and so if you are either a no coiner or a low coiner who is still in the earliest of stages of building a BTC portfolio, it may well take several years, before there is any value in waiting to buy on dips rather than just buying regularly at any price (aka DCA).

Another thing is that OP seems to be talking about $50 to $100 per month, so it is not a whole hell of a lot to work with, and depending upon how high of an annual salary s/he has, it could take well over 10 years, at such rate, to even get to a point of having a year's worth of salary invested into bitcoin.. of course, depending on what is the overall income and if it might be less than $6k to $8k per year, then it should not take 10 years to reach 1 year's salary invested into bitcoin.

I actually use binance P2P myself and like you said it's very recommendable because for every transaction you carry out the binance system is actually there to act as a middle for the transaction which somehow is acting like the escrow service you mean. Transaction on binance P2P are actually quite easy if only you are strict and follow the rules that covers your transaction, I bet you won't have any problems with buying your bitcoin on a steadily basis with its P2P trading.

When I hear a low coiner talking about waiting on the dip to invest, I tend to see someone who is most likely not going to invest at all. Why do I say this;
Being a low coiner at this stage is defined by one with very minimal experience. Yes, there might be those who have gained theoretical knowledge by taking several studies but, it doesn’t end there. When you start buying and experiencing the flux of the market, there the market plays it’s best cards on you.

So yeah, a low coiner has little or no experience and as such, you can’t predict the dip for sure nor is any of the veterans which makes you procrastinate on investment even after presented with the best opportunity.

I have seen some users on the forum propose a $1 per day and over $7 a week. The $100 seems even better as compared with these but, it’s what there income allows of them and that’s good enough for them but still, they should be ready to do the time it takes to add a lot of value and that could be such a long time, who knows.

Nice DCA strategy, Investing 15/20$ per week is not bad, it averages the price of Bitcoin lower and your risk is much lower. If you continue like this for 5 years you can save $3600+ plus multiple returns of this amount when Bitcoin price rises. But since Binance exchange is very popular and reputable you can withdraw your investments every month instead of every week. Because when you withdraw every week at $1 per withdrawal fee you lose $4 in fees out of $60 per month. And if you withdraw once a month, you will save $3. in this way you can save $180+ over 5 years

I love to see people using DCA to stack. All we need to escape global fiat currency is a decentralized network of 10 million plebs around the world all auto-stacking an average of $10 per day.

That would be $100 million of upward buy pressure every single day until everybody in the world started to buy bitcoin and then it's game over for fiat.

Thanks for your update. Stay the course, pleb. We all appreciate your service to help global bitcoin adoption.

You might be right Mr. Right, but it seems to be problematic to merely describe a low coiner in terms of the amount of experience that s/he has with bitcoin rather than the more obvious description that a low coiner would be someone who does not have very many coins as compared to how many s/he should have based on his/her own financial situation.

For example if someone has a $100k investment portfolio, and ONLY has less than 1% in bitcoin, then that would seem to be a low coiner, and maybe even some of us might argue having 1% to 5% into bitcoin would also be a low coiner, but at least that person might have allocated low, but still at least they got off of zero and they got over a 1% allocation in bitcoin.

There are so many people, institutions and governments who are either completely without bitcoin and/or below a 1% allocation, and I would prefer to focus on them first.. and using some kind of a quantifiable measurement that relates to how many coins that they have instead of just how experienced they are in bitcoin, even though you are likely correct that there is a pretty high correlation that shows the more time that anyone spends studying bitcoin, the more likely he is going to act and the more likely that he acts in relation to bitcoin, the more likely he is going to transition out of low coiner status.


I would never want to suggest that anyone invest more than they can afford in terms of their own cashflow and expenses considerations, so those examples of $1 per day or $10 per week are fine if that is all that someone can afford, and surely I used to make those same kinds of suggestions prior to March 2020, and after March 2020, I started to default by suggesting $100 per week rather than $10 per week because it seems that some people need to be more aggressive in their thoughts about bitcoin, especially if they already know that they can afford $100 per week, and those investing $100 per week starting in March 2020, are likely going to have difficulties ever catching up to those who started with $10 per week 4 years earlier (let's say March 2016), but still I was thinking that the devaluation of the dollar and also some of the price bounces (and strength of bitcoin's investment thesis after March 2020, justified upping the starting recommendation to $100 per week while also with the caveat that there is a recognition that doing as best as you can might well have an end result that might ONLY be $10 per week for some people.

Another thing I recognize and appreciate is that no one should be picking out numbers based on another person's recommendation, even though I am likely going to continue to start out with $100 per week rather than $10 per week but people should recognize that $100 per week is likely aimed at a western audience.. and if your income is not in the $30k or more per year ballpark, then you may well be needing to adjust down those numbers... because another way to think about it would be investing between 1% and 25% of your income into bitcoin, and you are ONLY going to be able to invest at the higher ends of that range if you really have your shit together, otherwise you should be picking more realistic and sustainable numbers for yourself, and someone who makes $26k per year might be able to $100 per week which is 20% of his her annual salary ($500 per week), but someone who ONLY makes $13k per year may well be going overboard with $100 per week, because that would constitute 40% of his/her salary, so s/he may have to go through a lot of gymnastics to allow for 40% to work in a way that is sustainable.. including questioning whether s/he already had set up some kind of an emergency fund or maybe some of that money getting taken out for investing goes to bitcoin and the other part goes towards making sure that the emergency fund is solid.

I calculated with the dcabtc.com= calculator that at $20/week you will earn $5,220 (https://dcabtc.com?sd=2018-09-08&sda=5_years&f=weekly&d=5_years&ac=2000&c=false) over the accumulated 5 years that is the average cost in dollars.

If you increase the investment longer such as 9 years then it will be even greater can calculate it here dcabtc.com.

If you are comfortable with the DCA method, it is not a problem to place the exchange for a while to save on withdrawal fees but don't get too comfortable with the exchange, how about after you have earned one month from DCA immediately withdraw to your personal wallet instead of continuing to delay which will eventually become a risk later.

It's okay if @OP can only invest $15/$20 per week. I also do it weekly, but for a smaller amount, maybe around $5-10 per week. I did it on a local exchange and had no problems till now.

I collect a small amount of bitcoins weekly and then send them to a personal wallet to combine with previous investments after a month. The transaction fee on the local exchange is also small. I've asked for clarification and the transaction fee of around 0.000077 btc equal to $1.99.

source: https://www.tokocrypto.com/fees/schedule

I don't know if my local exchange will accept people outside my country. But you can try.

Hey buddy you have already said What I wanna say, I currently give this suggestion to all my friends who want to trade and are new to trading. Which I myself have applied.
I initially thought I would deposit $10 per week directly into a decentralized wallet. Then I saw that if I do a small amount of bitcoin transactions every week, my fee cost is going down a lot. I now set aside ten dollars of BTC after I get paid by binance every week and then send a larger amount to my decentralized wallet every month or two. It didn't look bad to me. So new commer can also try this trick. And to me it finally feels a little more secure that my funds are being deposited into a decentralized wallet.
Let's see how far I can take it. I feel better on it besides depositing on bank.

There have been lots of contribution but if you don't mind why not use some p2p service provider that help you send btc maybe the fee can be reduced from the 14$ withdrawal fees from Binance, I think through p2p you can only spend about $6 to 10$ at maximum since withdrawal from Electrum wallet cost at minimum of 12 sat/byt or for fast transaction they might increase to 20 sat/bit which is apro.. $.57 then you could only be changed about $6 plus as their service fee.

How to do this; locate a reliable p2p provider from yours local thread which I think you could send fiat directly to him/her to their account then they will send you btc to your private wallet or none custodian wallet. At this point you had saved about 7 to $8 as fee from Binance, this should be done with only a reliable p2p service provider in your local board ( I guess every local board has a reputable p2p trader) so you should locate one and trade with him.

Binance is actually cool though, but you may need to save about $500 worth of btc before withdrawal I think at this point you may not be spending much at point of withdrawing your funds. If you wanna constantly wanting to withdraw all time you buy, you may spend much at the cost of wanting to make withdrawal.

Actually you have a good strategies and this is what we need to be doing at most times, since some people keep procrastinating about buying bitcoin but with this style you would end up with a good accumulation process. Good luck!

OP is complaining of the high fees he's being charged by binance weighing the amount he is transacting and he's seeking for exchanges with fees of at least $1 for his $15/20 weekly transaction so your recommended local exchange doesn't bring succour to his plight at $1.99 that's approximately $2 mate.

Come to think it, this local exchange you're making use of, is it a Cex or Dex? If it happens to be a Cex then you need to have a rethink and change over to a Dex with no kyc. To me it's better to use a Dex with my privacy intact despite their charge fees than to use a Cex with a low fees with my privacy in question

If you think about it, $500 is not really that much to be holding on an exchange that has been around for a decently long time and there really are not any strong signs that they are going to rug pull anyone, even though they have been under quite a bit of pressure in the past year or so and even more so since November/December 2022... which likely shows that there were just people who were pissed off about the obvious scam of FTX going down and somehow wanting to make a connection to Binance and to blame Binance/CZ and a bunch of just nonsense spin because American regulators and financial institutions feel that they cannot control Binance/CZ as much as they would like.

Anyway back to the point about $500 not really being very much, even though it could take OP 6 months to a year to get up to $500 in his account, and surely the first year or so, there may be some desire to move some of the accumulated BTC off of Binance, but after a year or two, the percentage of his overall BTC holdings will become smaller and smaller and after a few years, maybe $500 worth of BTC purchases that are sitting on Binance might only be less than 20% of OPs overall BTC holdings size... .. and sure no one wants to lose 20% of their BTC holdings, and so there still is a kind of balancing in term of the practicality of the withdrawal fees.. and it likely feels much more manageable to be paying 1% to 5% on withdrawal fees rather than 10% to 20% on withdrawal fees... which could just cause disincentives to be spending so much on withdrawal fees so it is worth some risk of holding with third parties just to reduce the withdrawal fees to more acceptable levels, while trying to stay practical and without necessarily getting too greedy about the amount of reduction that would be prudent and reasonable.

Yeah, you are right. The reason for DCA is to keep accumulating at every bit of opportunity the person has to invest any certain amount they have plans to invest on Bitcoin, which one reason is also to avoid spending the money; some people cannot hold Fiat without possibly spending it on their needs, but after they have invested it into Bitcoin, they don't feel the need to spend it. The second reason is the fluctuation of prices, as you mentioned.

But with what JJG said in the quote below, it's also considerable; you can accumulate your Bitcoin on the CEX, and after you have bought up to $500, you can just withdraw it at once.


Or you are also left with the option to spend the $1.8 fee every time you buy $20 worth of Bitcoin to avoid the risk of keeping your Bitcoin on a CEX. ("Not your key, not your coin).

DCA is a good thing to follow knowing too well about the market instability nowadays and haven to spend 14 or 20 dollars per week is something very encouraging at minimum would reduce the pressure to buy a very large quantities (in fractions higher than 20$ as you said). Considering the current price of bitcoin it practically cleared that at end of every month or I do say weeks you could have gethered what you could never imagined of having at a very low cost without being so panicked to either sell or practically depending on the savings.

But to me, I would be on the opinion that having an extra cash or a reserved fund inform of cushion or ( spare cash) which you could solely depends on maybe whether your current job that makes you buy btc in little fraction would have ended, you may not being in pressure to start depending on your holding in btc without having to achieve your desired investment plan and packages, of course this is one thing that stir's up people to sell most at times while some are merely fear ( this could be FUD FOMO), while those who knows their stands keeps HODL till the Market gets back it ground.

Although many people has been Rekt, I mean, and I quote ("Rekt refers to the rock-bottom feeling of when someone experiences major losses from cryptocurrencies that have plummeted in value") but their decision still stands the same based on the strong believe that certainly they are bitcoiners.

Then let's talk about the cost at point which is involved or that associated with your withdrawal, from my own understanding involving in accumulation doesn't need you to be much in a hurry as I think or have thought so much holding it at the exchange you mentioned but the fear of losing your assets is something that are not guaranteed, although for somewhlie I have never recorded any ill activities or malevolent activities to my noticed ( although there could be some past records of ill active but at present) they remained the number one global leading exchange, which in my capacity I will say Binance is actually working tediously and have remained so strongly in protecting their clients investment (and thus is their topmost priority to safeguard their investors funds).

This could be true but as a self study investor you (we) don't need to be much reliance and being overwhelmed with their promises. So applying cautiousness while dealing with exchange are very much important as I believe no fund are too small for someone to lose. You can keep accumulating but whenever you feels is due enough for you to withdraw to a reliable wallet then you pull it off. There have been lots of tells about how could withdrawal at least to avoid being charged overly and overtime.

These are not easy questions, and of course, no one should want to either be reckless, lazy and/or failing to think through situations, but people can also get reckt or to miss out on a variety of opportunities, or paying too much in fees, or to be spending too much time on certain non-productive activities and worries by being overly cautious and unwilling to take various risks.

sometimes there are advantages towards having some money on exchanges and the whole system of bitcoin (and sure shitcoins too) come from price discovery and liquidation avenues being established on exchanges... so many guys here are lecturing about not keeping value on exchanges as if it were the ONLY thing going on, and sure on an individual level, you may well be motivated to maximize your own protections, but you also need to balance how much you might consider to be too much to be willing to lose and not putting yourself in a position that you are overly jittery.

And yeah, $500 has a different feeling to it for depending on your savings (investment portfolio) stash and your income so is different for:

1) someone who does not have any other savings and has an income that ONLY allows for $10 - $30 savings per week,

2)  someone who does not have any other savings and has an income that allows for $400 - $800 savings per week,

3) someone who has $10k in savings, and has an income that ONLY allows for $10 - $30 savings per week,

4) someone who has $10k in savings, and has an income that allows for $400 - $800 savings per week,  

5) someone who has $100k in savings, and has an income that ONLY allows for $10 - $30 savings per week,

6) someone who has $100k in savings, and has an income that allows for $400 - $800 savings per week,  

7) someone who has more than $1 million in savings, and has an income that ONLY allows for $10 - $30 savings per week,

8 ) someone who has more than $1 million in savings, and has an income that allows for $400 - $800 savings per week,

Do I need to go on with more examples to make my point?    Your feelings about the potential loss of $500 is going to feel different depending on the size of your savings and also the size of your discretionary income

And sometimes money is being made (or options are increasing) by using those third-party services, not that I am suggesting that there is a need to trade BTC or to get involved in shitcoins, but just that there could be some advantages by having money on third parties, especially if someone has a cushion and still might be considering ways in which s/he is not thinking in terms of all or nothing in regards to whether to use a 3rd party service but instead considering how much exposure do they consider to be acceptable in comparisons to a variety of other goals that they might have that might even place some value in having money (value) in various places... and I am not even referring to getting involved in shitcoins.. but there could even be some value to keep money in places that are known not to make money (such as keeping some money in fiat) and even to lose money, merely because it is good to have options of ways to be able to spend that money... or even to be able to invest if some opportunities were to potentially come.

Though I didn't purely mean saving in an exchange is wrong neither does withdrawing funds from exchange to external wallet is bad, I think all are for investors safety. But those who gets little budget as op shouldn't incur any additional expenses at the cost of DCA and at some point should apply other technique that could helps narrow down his fee, which about 3 to 4 post above gave a good point by also buying from p2p service provider and there could be every possibility to reduce his expenses and that could channeled more to his holding instead of ending up being spent on fee from cex.

You expression above shows a good representation.. and of course all may not be the same so it varies.

I don't want to be a hypocrite because earlier I had mentioned a need to attempt to tailor our answers to what OP is asking and what might be some suggestions that are sufficiently related to what OP is asking without necessarily imposing new hypotheticals onto the situation - however, at the same time, these are public threads, and we are not necessarily going to ONLY go towards answering the OP, but also attempting to address like situations, and largely I gave my examples to attempt to rebut your claim that a loss of anything is too much, and I am trying to suggest that it is not the case, and maybe also to assert that we do not even know enough about OP.. even though he did let us know that he has already figured his own budget amount to be somewhere in the territory of $14 to $20 per week or maybe just $50 in a month which would be less than $14 per week.

But since we are in a public thread, we likely need not be completely constrained to the narrow circumstances of OP. because even OPs circumstances could start out to be like one thing, but many of us know that even cashflows and expenses can change and even views of bitcoin that thereafter end up contributing to changes in  terms of how much OP might become available towards bitcoin purchases and how much he has saved, which then might bring him outside of the parameters that he had initially described to be relevant to his then situation.

I think that in subsequent posts, OP also said that he had some reluctancies towards some of the P2P suggestions, but that he would be willing to look into the matter to see if he might find some that he considers to be suitable for his situation... I personally find some of the P2P to be complicated, but again, I have not really used them, except for the ones that result in face to face cash transactions. .. which may well be quite satisfying if we can get passed some of the potential security concerns in terms of figuring out where to meet.. which sometimes it can be helpful to have reputational systems for that when meeting strangers.. and then if there are local meet ups that can be good, but some people might be nervous (or scared) to get involved in local meetups, too.

I accept this suggestion, but why am I not consistent in making posts that are useful for the forum because I still have conflicts with other jobs so I don't just focus here but there are obligations that I must fulfill as a worker.
Trying my best on this forum to build a better account and be able to earn BTC from the campaigns you talk about, it's not easy but I will do it.

So far it's been about investing Bitcoin the DCA way but the money is coming from my pocket.

It seems like I'm comfortable with what I'm doing with Binance. The most I can increase is $200, but it depends on the situation in terms of putting dollars in there to buy bitcoin, as long as the purchase target has been met with more than 1 month's worth then I withdraw all the bitcoin. to personal wallet.
Not brave enough to store bitcoins from $500-$1000 on an exchange.

Maybe what I do is transact with a reputable forum user while I'm still a newbie so I'll send money to them first and they send BTC to me, that's the scenario in my mind, but it hasn't been done until now. ;D

No. I'm not very familiar with lightning networks.
Stick to the choice of BTC onchain that I use, even if withdrawing from Binance is cheap it will still use that network instead of the lightning network.
But will understand the lightning network completely.

Better to pay $2 than pay $14 ;D

Also, he doesn't immediately transfer his bitcoins to his personal wallet and waits until he can collect, for example, 0.001 btc-0.01 btc, then he sends them to his personal wallet. So it still makes sense that he only paid $2 instead of $14.

The local exchange I use is CEX and it is under government supervision. For example, if something is wrong with the exchange, customers can complain to the government and the government will help. So far, that's what the government says. Maybe for you, using DEX is better than CEX but I still use CEX to buy bitcoins.

Each person will seek the convenience that they want and I'm still comfortable using CEX so do with @OP and you and the others. Moreover, I can only buy in small quantities.

Well this is one solution to reduce the burden of costs that we have to do every time we transact, and indeed everything we do will definitely contain risks. We just have to choose to spend more but we can secure our assets every week, or we prefer to be a little patient to then accumulate our assets on the exchange first before we send them to a more secure wallet. I also read some colleagues suggesting to accumulate fiat first, I also have no problem with that if they are comfortable doing it, but I prefer to be consistent in this within a predetermined period of time.
I think holding a little longer on the exchange is fine, we will definitely have different opinions on the amount, and for me personally holding at least $100 is not too much of a problem.

Which binance exchange are you using because I've not seen Bitcoin withdrawal this high on Binance exchange and I use this exchange almost every week, here is all the available withdrawal option for Bitcoin on the Binance exchange.

https://i.postimg.cc/xC16X13s/Screenshot-2023-09-09-08-33-54-513-com-binance-dev-edit.jpg

As you can see it cost 1.99$ to withdraw Bitcoin from Binance exchange, there is also an option to use the Lightning Network too, which is more cheaper than the rest.

I know it could be hard to still use 2$ for withdrawal every week or month, since the money you are making is small compared to other Bitcoin investors, why don't you store the money up first? Like two months before buying Bitcoin? Because if you DCA for every month in the next 8-12 months the withdrawal fee is up to your monthly DCA money.

I think using the Lightening Network is better.

I also trade on Binance P2P, but the risk may be very minimal, but there are risks that can occur. Sometimes the order is not responded to or when the funds have been released there is no balance in the account. This will be a problem that needs to be resolved immediately. Make sure to choose a trusted seller so there are no transaction problems.

It does not make sense paying huge fees in the course of doing DCA as this might eat a large portion of your profit even though this fee might appear insignificant.  The best would have been to look for options that requires minimal fees.
There are many ways you can purchase bitcoin without paying this expensive fees. This article is a guide how to buy bitcoin with Paypal (https://www.paypal.com/us/cshelp/article/how-do-i-get-started-with-cryptocurrency-with-paypal-help567). You can buy for as low as $1 directly from your PayPal account. 

There are other ways of buying Bitcoin that are easy, convenient and cheap

I didn't really read through all of the replies here but I think you should send them to trust wallet thats if you have one and there is also the Lightning  network  on binance and I've heard and read that it is extremely  very much cheaper than withdrawals on the regular btc chains.
And secondly just as other users have also advised, I think you should also try saving and putting the money together before buying if you want to save on transaction fees and you please avoid centralized exchanges if you care about not losing your funds as there have been several sad stories associated  with centralized exchanges and its fine if you just do exchanges  on them rather than storing your coins over there no matter how little it might be.

Of course that’s one way to look at it, institutions and even the government although, I wouldn’t want to go with the government as, they’ve got a product of there own in the fiat and works a different system for which, they wouldn’t want to let go of there product to purchase a product that, they criticize and wants to do away with, viewing it as a harmful competition to there precious fiat and centralized systems. Them having a crypto portfolio other than means of seizure would be hypocritical.
Who knows, the seizure and adding to it could be a way for the government not to get left out on crypto investments without being criticized.

Perhaps I over exaggerated on no coiners but, I didn’t mean to pin it to having zero crypto portfolio but then, it’s almost normal to expect them to act based on how well informed they are and would be conscious of what’s being lost with each time past.

Governments vary around the world, and some of them have their own money they can print and some of them don't and most of them have some options regarding how to manage their treasuries.. even if they might have mandates from higher levels of governments or reporting obligations to the people.  Governments are already incentivized to participate in bitcoin rather than fighting bitcoin, but they can do whatever they like including having fun staying poor. .. it is their choice to figure out how to get involved in bitcoin, if they have options and abilities and powers to do so... and yes, sometimes governments seize assets too.. they are supposed to be acting in the public interest when doing these kinds of things, but some governments have various injustices within their ways of operating.


Yes.. there are no coiner and low coiners, and sure many of us already realize that folks in those categories are likely going to be better off to not only study bitcoin but also to take action, but at the same time, we know that an overwhelming majority of people remain no coiners and low coiners for a long time, and maybe it will take a few more cycles (or another generation or two) before some of them really start to realize that they need to figure out some kind of a bitcoin allocation plan.. for their own good.. and in the meantime those of us who either already have bitcoin, or who start stacking sats earlier are going to be completely advantaged over the many many already existing laggards who don't have time for figuring out their bitcoin strategy and acting in ways to facilitate bitcoin accumulation sooner raher than later.... and they can have fun staying poor, too... Those of us with bitcoin and who already know that it is a good idea to buy bitcoin or to mostly HODL bitcoin, can only do so much in order to help people in terms of how they think about bitcoin and/or to attempt to inspire them to actually take some bitcoin accumulation actions.. For the most part, they have to figure some of it out on their own and start to act upon their learning about bitcoin in order to hedge and/or to protect their own financial and psychological interests.. and yeah, if they don't know it, then they don't know it.

I know how you are feeling at this point but what you must know is that the forum is really time consuming if you may think of having a reputable account or having to build your account as its requires time and energy to be consistently posting, that isn't enough but to keep reading to understand the full progression of this forum as I can see that post are given give rewards due to amount effort and valuable (helpful its to people) before you could be rewarded a merits to talk of increasing in rank before applying in a campaign. All they need is your time!

I don’t quite follow up the part where you say, the government are already incentivized to participate in bitcoin.
Is that supposed to mean in the amount of allocation they have or you mean something different entirely.

When it concerns cryptos, I could hardly imagine any government that is yet to legalize the cryptocurrency innovation, act in the interest of its possessor or interest of the public. The best they could play roles at is in issues where there is an obvious scam, haven’t used the currency for a media.

Having fun, staying poor, lol…

Holding to inspire,
That’s hardly any purpose for me as I’ve tried convincing a few persons over the years but, I got to realize it’s mainly talking to deafness and most persons wonder what’s your motive. Haven’t had encounters with Ponzi schemes or are familiar with its operations.
Besides, you don’t get to declare your hodlings to even the closest of persons as this would pose a risk to security and you leave yourself open, privacy unwise.
This makes that agenda of holding to inspire a not very suitable one.

Still, it becomes an inspiration for most when they realize your funds span from a bitcoin investment.

I dont know why some people in the thread talk about a fixed ammount per month to make the DCA , man put whatever you can, its not the same the ammount who can purchase a guy from USA with a much more income than a guy in Malasia earning 30 usd at week.

The key factor its making something and having a save on BTC.

---

About fees, dont overthink it too much when you reach X ammount and the fee are below 2% go ahead and make the withdraw.

I mean that the incentives of bitcoin work the same whether you are an individual, institution or a government - even though it likely takes institutions and governments longer to act because many times they have to get approvals.

Think about it.. bitcoin is the best and soundest money to ever to have had existed (so far, and there is nothing in sight that is even close to it or likely to beat it), so the longer that anyone (or any institution or government) waits before getting involved in bitcoin, then the more it is likely going to cost them to get in (they are not likely to get as many bitcoin as the person, institution, government that got in earlier).

Yes, we can go back and the charts and find examples in which someone might have bought bitcoin at the top in late 2017, and then see that in late 2022, those people/institutions/governments could have gotten into bitcoin cheaper than the guy who got into bitcoin at the late 2017 top, but that is not realistic... including the fact that if a guy in 2017 bought several bitcoin at the top, he is likely not going to be waiting around until 2022, he likely is buying bitcoin the whole time. .that would be the smarter thing to do, especially if he bought at the late 2017 top.

Let me give some examples.  

A guy in late 2017 might lump sum buy $50k worth of bitcoin at $18k.. so he gets 2.7 BTC, and maybe the next 6 years, he buys $100 of bitcoin per week, so he ends up buying another 2.855 bitcoin for an additional $31,3k (https://dcabtc.com?sd=2017-09-10&sda=6_years&f=weekly&d=6_years&ac=10000&c=true).. So he has invested 81.3k and he has 5.555 BTC.  Does not seem to be a bad place to be.

If a guy comes to bitcoin in 2022 and he had $80k to $100k, is he going to invest  it straight into bitcoin and is he going to be able to get more than 5.555 BTC with that value?  Maybe maybe not.  Frequently conviction and abilities to be aggressive psychologically and/or financially build over time.

Another example might be the guy who did not lump sum into bitcoin in late 2017, but instead invested $81k over 6 years, but ended up starting up investing in late 2017, and so that guy would have right around 7.5 BTC for the $81k that he invested over the past 6 years at $260 per week (https://dcabtc.com?sd=2017-09-10&sda=6_years&f=weekly&d=6_years&ac=26000&c=true)

The same kinds of incentives exist for governments as individuals when dealing with the soundest money in existence, even if they might be able to get into bitcoin related businesses and even if they might be able to seize some bitcoin from the people, they still have other basic incentives to get into bitcoin earlier rather than later, even if they don't even realize the value of bitcoin and they don't even realize that incentives that they "should" have and that they likely will have with the passage of time, even if it might take several cycles or even a generation or two before they figure it out sufficiently enough to know that they should be designing their systems around bitcoin rather than fiat.. .even if they might need to do both during the transitionary period.


Fuck cryptos.  We are talking about bitcoin.  Don't be wasting your time talking about cryptos, thinking about cryptos or mixing up your language in such a way that no one knows what the fuck you are talking about.  We are talking about bitcoin here.  There is no innovation in crypto without focusing on bitcoin first.


Yes.. cryptos are a scam. .they are affiliation attacks on bitcoin, and sure people can fuck around and gamble with that crap and/or transacting with some crypto might be acceptable, but they need to keep their eyes on the prize, which is bitcoin.. and don't be holding onto crypto.. except for maybe some transacting with it or holding small amounts, since the only real innovation is bitcoin and any investments are being made need to have some bitcoin connections and/or recognition that they are building on bitcoin and not getting too far detached from understanding what is going on.


That's what seems to be happening with a lot of people/institutions/governments who think that they know about bitcoin because they heard the word, but they fail/refuse to get a stake in bitcoin.. because they actually don't know what bitcoin is.


I frequently tell people about bitcoin, and then when they start to get skeptical and even suggest that I am trying to sell them something or to motivate them to get in, then I frequently tell them that I hardly give less than two shits about what they do and whether they get into bitcoin or not. I am largely telling them information that is for their own good to know and it is up to them to figure out how to act upon such information, if at all.. and sure failing/refusing to act is a kind of act, but failing/refusing to act does end up being an easier thing to do.. which is likely going to end up costing them quite a bit in ongoing lost opportunities to get bitcoin at cheaper prices.


These are real fears that people have.. so I frequently will say that if they are so damned nervous about bitcoin being a scam, then just get in at a lower level of around 1% rather than 25%, even though I am suggesting a range of 1% to 25%, then they can choose their own level, even if it might seem to be a relatively whimpier level, but at least they are getting off of zero.. and in the end, it is up to them to make their choice about whether to get in and how much to get in and most people end up gravitating into the failure to act so they stay on zero, and even very few become even low coiners but instead stay as no coiners.


Probably we need to be careful in terms of providing any specifics.. and usually I avoid giving any specifics, but sometimes, I end up providing some comparisons in such a way that they should be able to get some pretty reasonable ideas of wsome of my specifics, even though I don't ever tend to say specifics, and sometimes I will even provide some low ball examples to show.. and maybe they think that I am talking about myself, and I can never be sure what they think...even though frequently people will directly ask.. .. so I might say, "let me put it like this: if you had bought $10 per week of bitcoin since late 2013, then you would have bought $520 per year on bitcoin which would be nearly $5,200 right now... so then giving some ideas. and then maybe I would pull up a DCA chart that would show that I would have around 4.62 BTC merely from my $10 per week from the past 10 years (https://dcacryptocalculator.com/bitcoin/?start_date=2013-11-28&finish_date=2023-09-10&regular_investment=10&currency_code=USD&investment_interval=weekly&exchange_fee=0.02).  So then once we have a number, then we might suggest that if I had done $100 per week, then I would have right around 46.2BTC, and then that starts to get their attention because we can start with small numbers and then either 5x or 10x then numbers in order to show how the level of aggressiveness can make considerably large changes in the magnitude of the results... but the results can be considered to be the same, even if it might be difficult to see cases in which people were completely consistent for 10 years and they might well have ups and downs, and periods of buying and lump sums and mistakes and they still might have an average and to be able to see if they beat the straight DCA approach  or if their amount invested ended up performing better than a somewhat strict DCA approach.


Many people have difficult times thinking in terms of moderation and even allocating some money to bitcoin and some money to other things, and they frequently think that you have to invest all or nothing, and they don't recognize and appreciate how some investments build over time, and they may even have many years in which they are not in profits or barely in profits. so that sometimes it can take a while to show the payoffs even though in bitcoin we could also say something like in 2015 I got into bitcoin by buying 100 BTC for $30k ($300 each), and this and this and this happened, and now I only have 10 bitcoin left... hahahahahaha... but maybe those 10 bitcoin (at nearly $260k) are still worth more than the $30k initial capital they had been bought for in 2015.

Investing the same amount of money at the same interval makes a good habit of investment. It is not about the amount and no one will punish you if you invest more. It is necessary to create a habit of investment which is very important for an investor who wants to DCA for a very long time.

I think the main problem with DCA is the fees. If you have been doing DCA for over 3 years and you have made more than 100 transactions already then you know the total amount of fees you have paid is not tiny. An investor who can only invest 50$ a month needs to consider every bit of dust he can save for himself. The goal is to fill your bucket as much as you can without losing much of it.

When the ordinal dust was hype, Binance increased its withdrawal fees, but when the ordinal dust went away withdrawals returned to normal.

Now I don't have a problem with the $2 fee for withdrawals every month, I think again it's already small and indeed the average withdrawal fee is almost the same even though some are lower.

There is a reason why I don't do it like that, I prefer now once a week and this has been taken into account with dcabtc.com after someone shared their simulation.
Now put aside withdrawal fees a little, focus more on DCA every week.

I know the lightning network is cheaper but, now I don't use it, and on Binance there is a lightning network deposit limit with the recommended maximum being 0.02.

Choose the exchange that will facilitate your transactions. Why are you using Binance instead of all other exchanges if you have to transfer BTC with higher fees than other exchanges.
Today I transferred BTC from my mobile wallet, where it cost me 0.0000094 BTC(0.24$) to transfer BTC. Since you are a small business owner, you will never save money if you have to pay $8 something transfer fee for every transfer. Since you have been using Binance Exchange for a long time, you can change your exchange if you want. You can use KuCoin or OKX instead of Binance. Hopefully these exchanges will charge much lower fees to transfer bitcoins to bech32.

Yeah that's true and I think they're overcomplicating things in terms of thinking about moderation to find the best decision for them, when only they know about their financial situation and maybe even some of the advice that comes in is not going to be taken too seriously especially if it's against their wishes. Well it's like just complicating things, I know they can afford it but they are too dramatic to allocate the money they have and also maybe they are too afraid of something that will happen with their money.

Actually this can be simplified, they can take the middle path that they think is the best, and by balancing their money allocation between for bitcoin and for other needs. Don't be too dramatic in terms of fear, it's very clear that if you want something big (profit) then you also have to dare to take one of the actions, so I think it's too early to think about things that you don't even know if the fear will happen or not. Yes that's right guys, there are some of them who think and say like that, between investing everything or not even at all, I think it's not the end of the world. If you have minimal finances then you can choose to use the DCA strategy, that's the middle ground that I think will be effective, you can allocate part of it for living needs and part of it for bitcoin once a week or once a month, it doesn't need to be a large amount, you can start from the smallest that you can do,
honestly I'm sure you also want to have a successful future with significant results from bitcoin, and with DCA you might have a chance to be able to achieve all that in the future, and well as long as you can stay consistent in doing it.

It is important to improve your standard of living, and it is also important to learn to invest enough money so that this will allow you to achieve good profits in the future. If we simply stay in our comfort zone, and what’s even worse, if we are content with only what we have, then we will lose the desire for the best.

We can't spend everything on ourselves because it won't bring us wealth in the future, and we can't save everything because it's just as extreme and can ultimately demotivate us. Balance is very important in all aspects of our lives. And it also seems to me very important to understand what we want to achieve in the end, why we are doing all this, then we will have the motivation and desire to achieve it.

And the correction that we are seeing now is just a great chance to buy even more Bitcoin. When we reached the 30k level, I already thought that we would go into further growth, but if the market is now giving us such a chance, then I think that we need to take advantage of it.

The major problem with buying Bitcoin using Binance P2P is that all your Bitcoin will be in Binance and you have to pay the fees to take it to any external wallet. As have been emphasized in this forum across several boards, it is not safe to store your funds in centralized exchanges so you have to withdrawal to your personal safe wallet. Apart from the fees, Binance P2P is good way to buy with your local currency especially for people facing FX restriction like it is in my country.



There are many exchanges where the fees are minimal. For instance, Coinbase charge as low as 0.00000473 BTC(about $0.122) as withdrawal fee for BTC. Under this fee, a hundred transaction will cost $1.22 which is not too much a fee to pay. There are many other options including P2P using trusted merchants as it is done in my country where Coinbase is not available.

Right now, withdraw fees for bitcoin in Binance are $1.7 for the legacy network, and according to my knowledge, Binance charges the lowest withdraw fees among all the cryptocurrency exchanges. I think you are referring to the bitcoin lightning network fees, which are under 0.1$ in Binance. Lower than Coinbase. I do not think many people like to use the Lightning Network to store their bitcoin in their long-term portfolio. Legacy networks are costly but more trustworthy for many investors, and if someone is investing 50 dollars every week and has to pay $1.7 every time he withdraws BTC from an exchange, then for 100 transactions he will pay $177. This amount is nothing for many of us, but for someone whose maximum investment capability is $200 every month, it can be painful.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/09/12/6SHEJ.png

Okay yeah, I do follow through on that now.

Can we overly refer to it as the “best or soundest money ever”?
I don’t want to be so pro bitcoin and so, you might have to understand my argument in the bases measure.
You know, money has gone through several systems over the years and the most of it is always measure by weight. Where we had people scale goods for goods (the barter system), using metals and the evolution of CB backed paper money for values.

Anyway, on the side of measure, the volatile nature of bitcoin have made it a not so sound or best as you would want me to agree it to be. Don’t get me wrong, am very much a pro bitcoin but, don’t want to let that push me into a YES on all that it entails. On the count of measure and volatility, it’s doesn’t have that fine cutting edge that assures your measure stays same. Yeah, you might profit or lose as is the case with business but, as money for even a short period of time, it leaves you shaking to have it in the likely hold of a drop while accepting it in exchange for goods.

On the part of it being an investment and the time that is being wasted by holding back on investments on the part of institutions and governments, I would say, they sure do get the picture very shallowly and could be that, the government don’t hope to lose its hold on its citizens to the idea of financial freedom just yet which is sad. Just how people choose to go with everything the government have served for them. Even in the shackles of traditional monetary systems despite glaring evolutions.

Lol,,, forgive my generalization as I very much want to view bitcoin as cryptocurrency (in shorts: cryptos) but, you could be rest assured I meant bitcoin.

Don't worry about it, mate. That's just an example. People know they must adjust it to the income they get to invest in bitcoin. Only use the money we can afford. That's the key.

As for the fees, it's reasonable that someone would want to know the fees on other exchanges. This can be used as a comparison with the exchange he has used.

Actually, the way you doing DCA is already good I mean buying in a couple of months and then withdrawing it when reaches 100$ is totally great, tho like others have said you might consider buying bitcoin using the p2p service but or withdrawing it using Lightning network or native segwit if binance has the option because both of it can lower the fee of the transaction.

Or you can continue DCA for more than 100$ As far that I know that most of Centralized Exchange have a huge fee for withdrawing. and @ DVlog already mention that fee is lowest maybe you can check regularl to mempool.space before withdraw your money and if reached peak you can continue DCA when it reached lowest you can start to do withdraw

What's the point of using Lightning in centralized exchanges that require KYC? What's wrong with decentralized solutions that the crypto market offers you? If someone decides to use Lightning, it is better to use proven solutions such as

• https://boltz.exchange/
• https://www.lnswap.org/
• https://lnmarkets.com/
• https://www.coinplaza.it/

You have a good point but it seems the OP said that he already bought from the KYCed Exchange


So I only give him an option withdraw on lightning network because the fee would be cheaper beside that usually CeX offer better spread than DeX

I agree because once a habit is developed it doesn't become any problem for you to actually stalk up your bitcoin because believe me saving money isn't that easy as many folks are actually claiming it to be because if you don't have it as an habit then procrastination because your era of the day and once you start doing that saving bitcoin or money seem to be very difficult.

If am doing DCA I don't think reflecting on the fees in which you have inquired over the year for transaction when saving your bitcoin would actually be a good idea because sometimes finding out details about things can actually discourage you.