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Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Bialke on September 06, 2023, 02:01:42 AM



Title: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Bialke on September 06, 2023, 02:01:42 AM
I have two scenarios I want to talk about. One is fictiion, but possible. The second is possible and in the discussion of current space agancys and companys. Source: https://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Preparing_for_the_Future/Space_for_Earth/Energy/Helium-3_mining_on_the_lunar_surface

Example #1 - Fiction - Planet X with huge amounts of gold

Example #2 - Real - Earth Moon with huge amounts of Helium 3 and 4

What if, companys or countrys can built and run factorys on both, Planet X and Earth Moon. And we can mine gold and Helium 3 and 4 in huge amounts additional to the earth sources. What will it do with the earth market for gold and energy (Helum 3 and 4)? Are there big differences of the price of f.E. Helium  3 on the Moon-market and the earth market? And aditional: Are there big differences of the price of Gold on the Planet X-market and the earth market? Or will the earth market crash?

How is it taxed?


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on September 06, 2023, 06:15:52 AM
Of course, if humanity begins to explore the more distant corners of our universe and supply rare metals and other chemical elements to Earth in large quantities, then this will affect the price of currently existing value standards, such as gold and silver. But I don't think it's worth worrying too much about it. Almost every year we discover new chemical elements with more complex structures and weights. Therefore, there will always be enough rare elements that can serve as a measure of value for us.

If our planet is supplied with the raw materials we need from outer space, people will only benefit from this. In any case, this will not affect the increase in inflation.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: sesterceshop on September 06, 2023, 07:13:33 AM
In theory, they could impact the markets for these precious resources on Earth. The supply of these elements would likely increase, which could potentially lead to lower prices unless the demand also rises significantly.

As for taxation, that's a complex issue. It would depend on international agreements, the legal framework established for space mining, and the involvement of various countries and companies. Taxation on space resources would be an evolving field, and governments would need to establish clear guidelines to ensure fair and equitable distribution of benefits. It's an exciting prospect to consider how space exploration might reshape our economic landscape.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: pinggoki on September 06, 2023, 07:23:59 AM
It will definitely create a difference in the market for a lot of precious metals and resources because we're not limited to our planet to mine these minerals. I don't have much knowledge about mining and helium or gold market but the one thing that I'm sure of is when there's an abundance to a material and there's a lot of demand for it, the price will definitely go down but that's not the absolute result if space mining becomes a thing, take note that we need different sellers/miners in the market so there's competition and people have a choice which one they should buy but if space mining is monopolized or cornered by one company/country then expect no price changes in those minerals.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Yamane_Keto on September 06, 2023, 09:10:31 AM
The basic rule says that no comparison should be made between two completely similar commodities. If the gold found outside the ground is the same purity as the gold found on the ground, then it will certainly have the same value and will vary according to the purity and the percentage of impurities present. However, I believe that if large quantities of gold are found, its price will decrease and this may affect metal prices. Other industries may use gold for its high conductivity and efficiency.

If Helium-3 (He3) is found in large quantities and safer nuclear fuels are designed, oil and gas prices will be greatly affected as electricity can be used in more sectors.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Hispo on September 06, 2023, 10:15:01 AM
In my opinion, the whole concept of space mining, asteroid mining and similar extraterrestrial source gathering are supposed to give continuity to the current capitalist system most of the countries partake in, in order to sustain itself it is important to have access to new sources of valuable assets and thrus the value of those assets is supposed to be transfered to Earth, otherwise it would not make sense to exploit resources if they are not intended to feed and enlarge the market we already have.

Granted, in the far future colonies on the Moon and Mars may have their own economics, but they will likely be dependent on Earth's.

Also, space mining is something very far away, neither of us is likely to see it in our life time, unfortunately.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: avikz on September 06, 2023, 10:23:43 AM
What is fiction today, might become a reality tomorrow. Space X has already created a rocket that can be reused over and over again which may pave the way for commercial mining in other planets in future. However, any company or country mining from other planet will not flood the gold or energy market be because it will destroy the price with over supply and make the mining company unprofitable.

So even if energy and gold are found in outer space which can be mined, we commoners are not going to see any change in price.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Findingnemo on September 06, 2023, 10:59:14 AM

Example #1 - Fiction - Planet X with huge amounts of gold

Example #2 - Real - Earth Moon with huge amounts of Helium 3 and 4

How is it taxed?

In both scenarios, the supply will be increased but the demand is going to be the same unless we are going to trade with other species apart from humans But for now, let's keep it realistic, the value of gold and helium will fall nothing else.

Taxation depends on where the mined gold is sold to.

Space/asteroid mining is still a speculative idea so we never know when it will be possible and also there is no necessary that the mined gold from outer space will be cheaper if we take the infrastructure, transportation and etc. into the account with the value of gold.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: icalical on September 06, 2023, 12:08:56 PM
Are there big differences of the price of f.E. Helium  3 on the Moon-market and the earth market? And aditional: Are there big differences of the price of Gold on the Planet X-market and the earth market?

Logically yes, because there will be additional cost for transporting those Helium and Gold, and the cost will be significantly higher compared to transporting gold on the earth. Considering those transportation cost, I don't think any company will do such mining on space except the Gold / Helium supply on earth is very low and the demand is very high, thus the price is of Gold and Helium is sky rocketing, only then mining on space will be viewed as profitable.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: hugeblack on September 06, 2023, 12:43:48 PM
Sometimes the emergence of a new, more efficient alternative does not mean canceling the old product, but it will be less concerned according to the price. We have examples of this such as the oil revolution, the discovery of oil fields and its impact on coal mines[1], and Salar de Atacama[2], which was thriving in the past and suddenly everything stopped.

Therefore, if a planet full of gold is discovered, there will be a comparison between the cost of extracting that gold to deliver it to planet Earth and the price of gold on planet Earth. If the price is lower, mining on Earth will gradually stop, and vice versa.

These things are not black and white, but they differ according to each case and every situation.

[1] https://yearbook.enerdata.net/coal-lignite/coal-production-data.html
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salar_de_Atacama


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Peanutswar on September 06, 2023, 12:49:20 PM
Your idea is really out of this world, and this space mining costs more than you imagine, also they must need to study if the number of supply with this is enough to the number of money they will spend if its not worthy tho no need to support this project that's all but if it is this will become a huge project that many people will recognize and the possibility of getting taxes is zero sure the government or the project who manage itself will secure this treasure created for different offers and services to the community. But at the end its quite far from reality.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Latviand on September 06, 2023, 12:59:41 PM
I believe that this space mining thing is going to be a race and the first ones will definitely make a lot of money because they will not lower the prices, the worse thing that they could do is probably increase the price since they have a monopoly on space mining unless countries are starting a space race for space mining right now then we would expect a monopoly otherwise.
Also, space mining is something very far away, neither of us is likely to see it in our life time, unfortunately.
I beg to differ with this article (https://www.nasa.gov/osiris-rex/) about OSIRIS-Rex landing a rocket on an asteroid to collect samples. If that becomes successful that means that mining is a possibility. I would agree with you that we might not see it in our lifetime but I do believe that the resources in those asteroids is lucrative enough for countries or companies to jumpstart a project to mine these asteroids because the first ones to do it will definitely monopolize it.

This YouTube video from Kurzgezagt can be a big help to further your understanding of the basics and where we are right now in space mining.
Code:
https://youtu.be/y8XvQNt26KI?si=akOsi9Gkrm-uOaTN


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: tjtonmoy on September 06, 2023, 05:12:59 PM
What if, companys or countrys can built and run factorys on both, Planet X and Earth Moon. And we can mine gold and Helium 3 and 4 in huge amounts additional to the earth sources. What will it do with the earth market for gold and energy (Helum 3 and 4)? Are there big differences of the price of f.E. Helium  3 on the Moon-market and the earth market? And aditional: Are there big differences of the price of Gold on the Planet X-market and the earth market? Or will the earth market crash?

There could be 2 scenarios IMO. One is good and another is bad on how you look at it. Price is determined by demand and supply. In scenario 1, if they are able to mine and take it back to earth, then the supply will increase, thus decreasing the value. Good for consumers and bad for business people. I don't know how the market will react to this but those who do the mining could control the supply in order to keep the value up. And if the supply increases, what would happen to the price of existing ones? This is complicated until it happens.

In scenario 2, it will take more resources and money to mine outside Earth and take it back to Earth again. For the increasing investment to gain those gold or Helum 3&4 the price may skyrocket(pun intended LOL). This could affect the existing value too. As I have less knowledge about this market so I can't say much but this was my assumption.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: el kaka22 on September 06, 2023, 06:25:55 PM
It is not only possible but it is going to happen, the only issue is that we need time for that. I am not entirely sure if space travel will be that easy, like we do not know if we are going to end up in a starfield world or not, but I can say that it is definitely going to be something to care about on the long term.

Looking at the space travel we have right now and how much we care about it at the time, I can say that it may not end up being that great, and I think it is going to end up being a bit different. I know that it may take some time, but at the end of the day it is going to happen one way or another, that is going to be the most important thing and we should be happy about it without a doubt. Just wait for it.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Fortify on September 06, 2023, 07:07:24 PM
I have two scenarios I want to talk about. One is fictiion, but possible. The second is possible and in the discussion of current space agancys and companys. Source: https://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Preparing_for_the_Future/Space_for_Earth/Energy/Helium-3_mining_on_the_lunar_surface

Example #1 - Fiction - Planet X with huge amounts of gold

Example #2 - Real - Earth Moon with huge amounts of Helium 3 and 4

What if, companys or countrys can built and run factorys on both, Planet X and Earth Moon. And we can mine gold and Helium 3 and 4 in huge amounts additional to the earth sources. What will it do with the earth market for gold and energy (Helum 3 and 4)? Are there big differences of the price of f.E. Helium  3 on the Moon-market and the earth market? And aditional: Are there big differences of the price of Gold on the Planet X-market and the earth market? Or will the earth market crash?

How is it taxed?

In the short term, space mining is unlikely to have any impact on metal or precious resources. There are lots of sources far below the ocean surface that are likely to be more easily extractable than trying to reach out into space. It'll probably be many decades before a feasible idea is even attempted, which might also be liable to government intervention. Unless you were able to find an asteroid made of something like gold, that could be mined in a special way, then the complexities are not even worth bothering to investigate. Asteroids of a decent size in close earth proximity are fairly rare anyway. We'll definitely see more research and probes going out to determine whether it is possible though.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: franky1 on September 06, 2023, 07:59:38 PM
spaceX has a starship that can hold upto 100tonnes.
doing a shipment per month is 100tonnes a month landing on earth. so yes this can impact markets

world demand of gold is 4000 tonnes a year.
one shipment a month is 1200 tonnes a year = 30% excess new gold(if ontop of earth mining)

if it costs ~$900 to mine 1 ounce earth gold(wholesale production not market). 100tonnes is 3,527,400 ounces
which is a equivelent cost of $3,174,660,000 per space shipment.
so if they can mine space gold for less than $3billion.. then yes it can affect the earth market


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: panganib999 on September 06, 2023, 08:53:03 PM
Pretty sure that if space mining does happen it's going to be privatized like regular in-earth mining, with only the "financially-capable" being able to take this venture and monopolies/oligarchies taking over the industry. So regardless if we found asteroids with billions of dollars in gold or whatever precious metal there is, It's not going to actually affect the price of these commodities since these private companies would do whatever they can on their end to stop the supply from diluting its value.

Or we can be optimistic and suppose that the introduction of more stuff's going to inflate the value of commodities like gold like crazy that no efforts can be made to up turn it, making gold easily accessible to everyone. Personally I'd choose the former even though it's a little dystopic since at the very least, it's not going to affect the investments of those people who have bought gold, or whatever precious commodity they are holding.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: poodle63 on September 06, 2023, 11:28:20 PM
honestly i think the price will differs in moon and earth for example, since transport requires money, if the transport fee is quite high then the price difference will be big, same will commodities across continent nowadays, different continent different price, and the law of demand and supply will still be relevant.
though if the supply of gold for example, gets affected because the mining is very effective then the price will surely plummets, i think it also depends on the utilisation of such precious metal in future modern world where the interplanetary mining is becoming real.
there are simply too many thing to considers. the fact that we don't know the estimated cost for starting up mining in another planet already means we can't really estimate the price and effectivity which means its all just speculations.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Husires on September 07, 2023, 08:22:04 AM
They all depend on the cost if they are cheap and regular trips, the demand for gold will decrease as a origin used in some central banks and will be replaced by another fuller. This will enhance the uses of gold in the industry and improve the efficiency of the devices.People will turn the attention of diamonds as a substitute for gold and banks will try to keep quantities of diamonds or any metal that has a definitive properties such as gold and there is a high demand for it.
I expect to see the results of space mining within 30-100, and if technology develops, some of us may be able to live to see that day, but so far you may see the generations that follow us.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: vv181 on September 07, 2023, 08:36:20 AM
It will readjust with the cost of the mining, itself. If the mining cost from space is still lucrative, which means that the mining cost and reserve within Earth are comparable or cheaper with space mining, the price or the market will surely adapt to the supply availability and the current demands.

With the basic fact of how the market works, it certainly applies to other commodities, such as your example, gold. So does with different specific parts of an area. Different places might have different costs, if the end price value, including, the transport cost etc., are still competitive within some market at specific places, the price will adjust.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Cryptomultiplier on September 07, 2023, 03:19:11 PM
Space mining minerals would be way expensive than gold or any precious metal or mineral on earth.
Unless what is mined from space is used for so many purposes, as much as gold does, and the demand for it is high in that supply is limited, then that's when I can say it can affect price on earth and even cause inflation.
Besides this, I doubt space mining has got much effect on the earth markets to the point of causing inflation or upsetting current market structure.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: poodle63 on September 07, 2023, 11:25:43 PM
Space mining minerals would be way expensive than gold or any precious metal or mineral on earth.
Unless what is mined from space is used for so many purposes, as much as gold does, and the demand for it is high in that supply is limited, then that's when I can say it can affect price on earth and even cause inflation.
Besides this, I doubt space mining has got much effect on the earth markets to the point of causing inflation or upsetting current market structure.
considering that sending up satellites requires enormous amount of money, i think the transportation fee needed for interplanetary mining would costs a lot more unless they could mine in bulk and bring it together in earth considering some planets or meteor out there might not have the atmosphere that requires thrust to get into space.
i'm sure in the future this kind of thing will become real, after all humans always needs such resources and the earth could only provides so much, but the concern is that, technology is always changing, the efficient ones always dominate, maybe in the future we will find a way or some kind of technology that could helps efficiently mine in space, in which gonna be wonderful for the earth.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Pingrapole on September 08, 2023, 12:33:23 PM
My little opinion is that as far as the two things are available, there must be a difference between them because one is from the ground and one is from the sky and there will be a price difference between the two because on the ground we are close to all countries So I know but when it comes from space, when there is a certain country's work, then that country will say what that country will say As a result there will definitely be a price difference and since it is a new mineral it will be in high demand and people will be interested in it, so the price will be high.Space mining is a future fantasy, but we can discuss it because we are doing so much for our future generations.We value things from the ground one way and things from space we value differently because if we know something about space we are more interested, so the difference in prices of things there is huge I am not saying that my reasoning is correct. People with farsightedness may know better about this. I welcome their comments, and we want to learn from them.
Finally, with the way the space system is improving, we know that today's imaginations will soon become reality, because one by one, humans are completing space missions Very soon we will be able to bring minerals and other substances in abundance from Mars, Moon, etc. and these will be much more acceptable to the people of Earth and will make a good price difference As an example, there is nothing on earth that we don't have but bought at a high price, but we couldn't go to the moon, but we spent millions of dollars and bought land on the moon If we are buying then we need to understand that space buy spin mining as we know the resources will be very valuable and will make a huge difference to the world market.And it is natural that this will create massive inflation and that certain states will benefit from it.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: bitgolden on September 08, 2023, 06:22:06 PM
considering that sending up satellites requires enormous amount of money, i think the transportation fee needed for interplanetary mining would costs a lot more unless they could mine in bulk and bring it together in earth considering some planets or meteor out there might not have the atmosphere that requires thrust to get into space.
i'm sure in the future this kind of thing will become real, after all humans always needs such resources and the earth could only provides so much, but the concern is that, technology is always changing, the efficient ones always dominate, maybe in the future we will find a way or some kind of technology that could helps efficiently mine in space, in which gonna be wonderful for the earth.
I would guess that since this would be in the future, we are going to probably not spend as much, of course due to inflation it would look like a higher number, but not worth as much. I believe we will even have an electric vehicle in the future, which would be insane without a doubt but it can be done, many things we assumed couldn't be done ended up happening so it shouldn't be that crazy to think about it neither.

I believe that we could see it happen one way or another and should be fine. I hope that it gets to a point where we could see it happen easily, like just a daily job of someone. I do not think that life will be that simple at space that quickly, we will not see it, but it could happen in the future.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on October 06, 2023, 11:01:20 AM
Space mining minerals would be way expensive than gold or any precious metal or mineral on earth.
Unless what is mined from space is used for so many purposes, as much as gold does, and the demand for it is high in that supply is limited, then that's when I can say it can affect price on earth and even cause inflation.
Besides this, I doubt space mining has got much effect on the earth markets to the point of causing inflation or upsetting current market structure.
Some time will pass before humanity will be able to deliver minerals from cosmic bodies in space. By that time, people will definitely have invented relatively cheap ways to deliver them to Earth. It is likely that their delivery from asteroids may involve towing them to Earth and controlled dropping them at the desired point on our planet. Considering the expected large volumes of the substance delivered, their “extraction” may be even cheaper than it costs on our planet.

This method of obtaining minerals will definitely have a beneficial effect on the inhabitants of the Earth. In this case, there is no need to be afraid of inflation, since there will simply be a revaluation of values.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on February 19, 2024, 02:13:21 PM
Humanity is already trying to evaluate the possibility of extracting valuable chemical elements from asteroids in near space. Last October, the United States sent a scientific mission on Elon Musk's rocket to the metal asteroid Psyche. According to scientists' calculations, in 2029 the device will reach an asteroid located in the Main Asteroid Belt between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, having covered 3.5 billion kilometers by that time.

The metallic asteroid Psyche, 280 km wide, is the most expensive known space rock in the solar system. And this is due to its composition, because it must be filled with a huge amount of valuable metals such as gold, platinum and others. The total value of these metals, if they could all be delivered to Earth, is estimated to be 10,000 quadrillion dollars and far exceeds the total value of the entire modern economy of the Earth, that is, all the economies of the countries of the world. Despite the fact that the technology for extracting minerals from space objects does not yet exist, it will certainly appear soon, since this is a very promising industry.

https://rtvi.com/news/ssha-zapustili-missiyu-k-asteroidu-psiheya-na-rakete-maska/

https://focus.ua/technologies/599045-samyy-cennyy-asteroid-psiheya-pochemu-on-takoy-dorogoy-i-mozhno-li-dobyvat-na-nem-metally-foto


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: teamsherry on February 24, 2024, 11:49:52 AM
If such reality ever happens It would really upset the balance that we know already, just imagine if a new mineral were to be found that would have more value than gold it would affect the gold market since investors would shit from there and probably start investing in that mineral, and worst of all the poor masses would suffer even more and only the rich or very rich persons would have access or money to create machines that can mine such minerals and bring it to earth.

Moreover for any already existing mineral to compete it should have better properties that those newly imported materials or at least have a better usage than it.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: tyz on February 24, 2024, 01:55:07 PM
I think that space mining will not be profitable in the near future. For several reasons: the first is certainly that it is still extremely expensive to carry out such missions at the moment. Also, the chance of something going wrong is very high, so the potential risk-profit ratio is far too high. In addition, resource prices on Earth would have to be much higher than they are now. Another important factor is that many resources that are rather rare on Earth (gold, platinium, uranium, etc.) are much more abundant in space. If more of these are brought to Earth now, the price will collapse, which in turn will mean that mining in space will no longer be worthwhile.

In other words, the current price of raw materials will have to increase x-fold for mining in space to be worthwhile at all. And since global economic growth is slowing down anyway, it will be a long time before we reach that point.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on March 03, 2024, 08:47:20 AM
I think that space mining will not be profitable in the near future. For several reasons: the first is certainly that it is still extremely expensive to carry out such missions at the moment. Also, the chance of something going wrong is very high, so the potential risk-profit ratio is far too high. In addition, resource prices on Earth would have to be much higher than they are now. Another important factor is that many resources that are rather rare on Earth (gold, platinium, uranium, etc.) are much more abundant in space. If more of these are brought to Earth now, the price will collapse, which in turn will mean that mining in space will no longer be worthwhile.

In other words, the current price of raw materials will have to increase x-fold for mining in space to be worthwhile at all. And since global economic growth is slowing down anyway, it will be a long time before we reach that point.
No one claims that the extraction of natural valuable minerals in near space can happen in the near future. The appropriate technology for this does not even exist yet. But all this will arise over time. Humanity simply cannot do without their space production. And this is absolutely nothing to be afraid of. If, as a result, there are much more of certain valuable metals such as gold and platinum on our planet, there will simply be a revaluation of values. Yes, there will be price shocks for some time, but in general for industry, the development of equipment and technology, this will be an unprecedented rise.

Mining in space will always be meaningful and promising as human knowledge expands and we learn more and more about new chemical elements and their beneficial properties. As a result of this, our capabilities will expand, and this in turn will have a positive impact on the possibility of deep space exploration.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Fortify on March 03, 2024, 08:52:55 AM
I have two scenarios I want to talk about. One is fictiion, but possible. The second is possible and in the discussion of current space agancys and companys. Source: https://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Preparing_for_the_Future/Space_for_Earth/Energy/Helium-3_mining_on_the_lunar_surface

Example #1 - Fiction - Planet X with huge amounts of gold

Example #2 - Real - Earth Moon with huge amounts of Helium 3 and 4

What if, companys or countrys can built and run factorys on both, Planet X and Earth Moon. And we can mine gold and Helium 3 and 4 in huge amounts additional to the earth sources. What will it do with the earth market for gold and energy (Helum 3 and 4)? Are there big differences of the price of f.E. Helium  3 on the Moon-market and the earth market? And aditional: Are there big differences of the price of Gold on the Planet X-market and the earth market? Or will the earth market crash?

How is it taxed?

Space mining is still a very distant and pretty much insignificant thought in the current scheme of things. You are much more likely to see deep sea mining taking place, as very rich undersea vents offer much easier access, extraction and delivery of these type of mineral resources. The atmosphere is hundreds of miles thick and very difficult to even get a handful of people through at the moment, so it's unrealistic to be able to move a lot of goods back and forth at any sort of reasonable profitability, companies and governments will always go for the easier targets first. There may, in the more distant future, be a need to extract certain elements from outer space in future but not for a very long time will it be feasible.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: moneystery on March 03, 2024, 09:04:46 AM
sooner or later human civilization will reach the point where humans will not only explore and mine materials on earth, but also on planets close to earth. even more amazingly, human civilization is predicted to be able to mine enormous amounts of solar energy for the advancement of a cleaner and richer human life.

the moon and asteroids were only the first places humans would use for research, development, exploration, and mining. in the future there will be more places mined by humans and this will not affect the price of materials on earth because the cost of exploration is also quite expensive.

How is it taxed?

as far as i know, for the moon itself, countries that have set foot on its surface have annexed several territories and have declared that it is their territory. so for tax matters, it will be handled by each country according to their regulations.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Marvelman on March 03, 2024, 09:14:50 AM
It totally sounds like a sci-fi movie plot or something! I mean, they wanna send robots and vehicles out into space to latch onto space rocks and extract things like gold, platinum, and rare earth metals.  Wild right?

I guess the idea is that doing this could bring back huge amounts of these scarce materials, which would kinda crash prices here on Earth.  It would totally shake up commodity markets at first.  But in the long run, having more abundant access to useful elements could lead to innovations in technology... who knows what else.  More spaceships for sure!

It seems kind of far out there, but bringing back asteroid materials could maybe usher in a new age of space exploration.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Ozero on March 04, 2024, 06:39:44 PM
It totally sounds like a sci-fi movie plot or something! I mean, they wanna send robots and vehicles out into space to latch onto space rocks and extract things like gold, platinum, and rare earth metals.  Wild right?

I guess the idea is that doing this could bring back huge amounts of these scarce materials, which would kinda crash prices here on Earth.  It would totally shake up commodity markets at first.  But in the long run, having more abundant access to useful elements could lead to innovations in technology... who knows what else.  More spaceships for sure!

It seems kind of far out there, but bringing back asteroid materials could maybe usher in a new age of space exploration.
Just a few decades ago, digital technologies, the Internet, and artificial intelligence also seemed like science fiction to us. Therefore, several more decades will pass and the extraction of valuable chemical elements on planets, comets and asteroids may well become a reality. The main thing is that people unite their efforts in this, and not fight with each other. There is nothing particularly complicated here, you just need to invest large sums in this activity. But I don’t think this is a problem either, because private businesses are happy to invest in it, given the income it promises to generate.
When this gets under way, space exploration and the development of equipment and technologies that are associated with it will go much faster.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: franky1 on March 04, 2024, 10:06:05 PM
Space mining is still a very distant and pretty much insignificant thought in the current scheme of things. You are much more likely to see deep sea mining taking place, as very rich undersea vents offer much easier access, extraction and delivery of these type of mineral resources.

im sorry to inform you but they cant even get to visit the titanic successfully with humans in a capsule

The atmosphere is hundreds of miles thick and very difficult to even get a handful of people through at the moment, so it's unrealistic to be able to move a lot of goods back and forth at any sort of reasonable profitability, companies and governments will always go for the easier targets first. There may, in the more distant future, be a need to extract certain elements from outer space in future but not for a very long time will it be feasible.

its feasible now.. due to re-using rockets, the cost of getting capsules into space has been proven affordable compared to how much weight the payload of rocket can return with.
the only thing stopping space mining is the infrastructure being in space where they can refine the rock into more pure rare elements to then return to earth with a light payload that is not 99.9% rock:0.1% rare element,
which at a 100tonne payload of rare element could be worth billions per round trip IF refined in space, where only pure form returns to earth..
(carrying just unrefined asteroid rock, would be like 0.1tonne of gold (3527.4oz@$2k=$7m) so not worth the trip)
(carrying just basic-refined asteroid rock5% purity, would be like 5tonne of gold (176,370oz@$2k=$352.7m) so not worth the trip)
(carrying semi-refined asteroid rock50% purity, would be like 50tonne of gold (1,763,700oz@$2k=$3.527b) so worth the trip)
(carrying refined rare earth elements 99.9% purity, would be like 100tonne of gold (3,527,400oz@$2k=$7b) so worth the trip)

they just have to get the infrastructure up there + a couple of engineers(maintenance guys to repair the automated drills and refineries)
and ofcourse first need to find a water source for basecamp up in space as fuel and hydration

so its technically feasible and affordable. just takes time to implement

if you look at everything recently
the Mars rovers small scale core drilling samples of test tube size amounts is a sandbox test of remote commanded mining
Elon musks 'boring company' is other R&D, as is his solar, his electric car and space X


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: dezoel on March 08, 2024, 05:12:04 PM
Why do people think of this as anything different than two nations trading? I mean lets say country A has timber, and Country B has gas, one would send timber, and the other would send gas, and not like they would barter, they would sell and see the difference between them, maybe one would sell 80 million dollars worth of timber, while the other would sell 1 billion dollars worth of gas.

In this scenario, if we have colonies in all these planets, then planet X would send Gold, and moon would send Helium, whereas Earth would send something else and we would see who comes out on top. I would say going to a planet or an asteroid, and mining gold, and sending it back again, all costs way too much right now to make it profitable to be fair.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on March 09, 2024, 07:25:19 AM
Why do people think of this as anything different than two nations trading? I mean lets say country A has timber, and Country B has gas, one would send timber, and the other would send gas, and not like they would barter, they would sell and see the difference between them, maybe one would sell 80 million dollars worth of timber, while the other would sell 1 billion dollars worth of gas.

In this scenario, if we have colonies in all these planets, then planet X would send Gold, and moon would send Helium, whereas Earth would send something else and we would see who comes out on top. I would say going to a planet or an asteroid, and mining gold, and sending it back again, all costs way too much right now to make it profitable to be fair.
The extraction of natural resources and chemical elements in general from space objects will in any case bring great benefits to humanity, regardless of the amount of money spent on this activity. We constantly spend enormous amounts of material wealth and effort on waging endless wars and other wasteful activities, but flippantly brush aside what can later bring us significant and permanent benefit to our existence.

In addition, the organization of the extraction of useful substances on cosmic bodies should not be considered in isolation from other processes that will necessarily occur. We are talking about the probable settlement of these objects by people and the development of other related types of human activity. We definitely need to think now about duplicating human life on other planets, their satellites or even asteroids. After all, if any global catastrophe happens on our planet, then humanity may cease to exist. The presence of other people within our solar system will be at least some guarantee that this will not happen.

The opportunity provided for space exploration must be used immediately. When this process begins, new technologies for this development will appear, and its significant reduction in cost.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: franky1 on March 09, 2024, 08:07:01 AM
In this scenario, if we have colonies in all these planets, then planet X would send Gold, and moon would send Helium, whereas Earth would send something else and we would see who comes out on top. I would say going to a planet or an asteroid, and mining gold, and sending it back again, all costs way too much right now to make it profitable to be fair.

coming back to earth with a payload of rock where gold was only X part per tonne is not affordable. but having a moon colony that refine it and so what comes to earth is a pay load of 99.9% pure gold, no excess rock. would be more than affordable and very profitable

EG watch "gold rush" tv show.
count how many loader trucks move dirt in that weeks episode, between 'paylayer' mining area to the sluice machine/refining area.. and then compare it to the JAR OF GOLD at the end of episode weigh in.
imagine the asteroid<->moon as the trucks and sluice machine. and the rocket that comes to earth as the jar of gold.. not the dirt loader truck
(in space you dont need much fuel to move loader rockets between asteroids and moon, but you would need a few dozen tonne to move between earth to space)
so expect most refining to be done in space so what goes into space are EMPTY hull rockets (light weight, less fuel(empty jars)) and what comes back is heavy load(gold filled jars) of refined gold, then let gravity does most of the work


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: bluebit25 on March 09, 2024, 09:03:40 AM
Our ecosystem still provides enough resources for human existence to last for centuries to come, but one would also think about the hypothetical colonization of neighboring planets to exploit natural resources and fuel. Whether. I also watch a lot of fantasy movies. I can imagine that if we exist in the future and lack resources, there are many proposed scenarios, let's not talk about the tax story :) because I'm not sure. that in the social context at that time we will still maintain the old management style. But movies like Avatar 1, DUNE 1 2,... all give me the feeling that people will always lack resources and they will be forced to find and control.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on April 12, 2024, 11:13:16 AM
Our ecosystem still provides enough resources for human existence to last for centuries to come, but one would also think about the hypothetical colonization of neighboring planets to exploit natural resources and fuel. Whether. I also watch a lot of fantasy movies. I can imagine that if we exist in the future and lack resources, there are many proposed scenarios, let's not talk about the tax story :) because I'm not sure. that in the social context at that time we will still maintain the old management style. But movies like Avatar 1, DUNE 1 2,... all give me the feeling that people will always lack resources and they will be forced to find and control.
Humanity now needs to think not only about resources for our planet from other space objects, but also about the reserve existence of people on other planets in the event of a global catastrophe on Earth so that people can simply survive. We see that the probability of death of humanity at the hands of people themselves is even much higher than the probability of death from natural and space disasters. Man is such an unreasonable creature that he constantly fights with each other and periodically destroys his civilization, and this also does not exclude the death of the planet itself or the impossibility of living on it for centuries and even millennia in the event of a nuclear war.

Elon Musk wants to move a million people to Mars and establish a human colony there for precisely this purpose. But this is only the first stage. The next thing should be the settlement of people outside the solar system, because our solar system with the Sun itself in the center is also not eternal. But these are already problems for hundreds and thousands of subsequent generations of people.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: btc78 on April 12, 2024, 12:16:59 PM
As far as I know we have yet to extract resources from extraterrestrial bodies which makes your hypothetical scenarios difficult to answer with certainty.

But one general rule that applies to all is that the price of a good depends on how easily or how hard it was to extract, manufacture and transfer that good to merchants.
Since it is from the outer space, we can imagine that it would cost very expensive but gold here on earth might not that be expensive as the one outside.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: kryptqnick on April 12, 2024, 02:07:37 PM
I thought that the main issue with space mining would be that it's way too expensive to go into space and perform the necessary work, which makes the operation a waste of money. However, there's actually a bigger problem: according to NASA (https://www.nasa.gov/general/is-nasa-mining-asteroids-we-asked-a-nasa-scientist-episode-41/), we're not there yet on a technological level. There is research and there is interest in this idea, but the tech just doesn't exist. Another thing that needs to be developed is a legal framework (https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/space-mining-1.7012869) to establish the ownership of things mined in space.
Considering financial, technological, and legal obstacles, I think we shouldn't worry about the impact of space mining in the near future.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Volimack on April 13, 2024, 03:54:18 AM
As far as I am concerned speculative assets are difficult to consider. Their prices are not understood and a lot of money is wasted for the commercial. Look at the underlying motivation to adjust your strategies accordingly. For example, consumers of all ages are looking for value giving brands the opportunity to hack viral trends and drive awareness for their products. Stay away from thinking about the near future.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: poodle63 on April 13, 2024, 12:35:08 PM
we haven't been there yet to estimate its effect towards the earth economy but im expecting that it might create market differences if the cost of transporting and mining and the raw materials it produces far outweight whatever it is in earth, the key term is whether its cost efficient enough to make a profit and whether there are abundant resources out there to mine.
space mining could only work if its cost effective enough, but we haven't invented anything that could support the space mining as for my knowledge.
even transporting interplanetary materials take so much money, sending rover to mars already taking so much money i don't think its viable enough as of now until we finally found new technology that could
cut costs such as spaceX's reusable rocket only then its gonna be affordable enough and still make profit otherwise i'm quite pessimistic that its gonna be done around this century anyway.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: jrrsparkles on April 13, 2024, 04:52:59 PM
Space mining will not be possible for the next 50 years atleast, and we never know what will be the priority after a century and most likely the demand for natural resources will be higher so companies will be focusing on bringing them to the earth. As of now we don't worry about stacking as much as gold you can.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on April 16, 2024, 10:43:31 AM
I thought that the main issue with space mining would be that it's way too expensive to go into space and perform the necessary work, which makes the operation a waste of money. However, there's actually a bigger problem: according to NASA (https://www.nasa.gov/general/is-nasa-mining-asteroids-we-asked-a-nasa-scientist-episode-41/), we're not there yet on a technological level. There is research and there is interest in this idea, but the tech just doesn't exist. Another thing that needs to be developed is a legal framework (https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/space-mining-1.7012869) to establish the ownership of things mined in space.
Considering financial, technological, and legal obstacles, I think we shouldn't worry about the impact of space mining in the near future.
You are a little mistaken. Technologies appear relatively quickly as soon as there is a demand for them. The main thing is that humanity has already reached the level of technical development when it can develop technologies for the extraction of minerals on other space objects. Of course, we are not talking about the next decades, although this is quite possible. Look how technology has advanced over the past half century.

Regarding the legal basis for the extraction of natural resources in space, the current methodology of private law in civil legal relations, the basis of which has existed since the so-called “Roman law,” can well be applied to it. Roman private law, which regulates all civil transactions, is more than two thousand years old, but to this day this law has not changed significantly at all.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: G_Besar on April 16, 2024, 02:26:58 PM
Space mining will not be possible for the next 50 years atleast, and we never know what will be the priority after a century and most likely the demand for natural resources will be higher so companies will be focusing on bringing them to the earth. As of now we don't worry about stacking as much as gold you can.
If what you are talking about is about accumulating physical gold which is a reality for everyone, I also think that it is not wrong to do so because now the price of gold has also increased and some people consider it expensive. However, because gold still has no limits up to now, wouldn't it be better to use other options such as collecting Bitcoin when the price is being corrected because at the current price level it will also be able to provide quite a profit if the price increase occurs again during the halving moment? Later.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: shinratensei_ on April 16, 2024, 03:46:57 PM
Space mining will not be possible for the next 50 years atleast, and we never know what will be the priority after a century and most likely the demand for natural resources will be higher so companies will be focusing on bringing them to the earth. As of now we don't worry about stacking as much as gold you can.
the rare material such as gold and the other will probably greatly affected when space mining is a thing but as you said no need to worry about next 50 year, because our technology stil so far from allowing us into having some efficient space mining going on, the increase in the material that earth is having due to space mining is still far away, but this doesn't mean that investing in precious metal will always be a safe haven for most of us to avoid the inflation, it also means that maybe in the future when space mining is really can be done by certain people or company or even government the price of the precious metal defnitely gonna be affected whether by small scale or large scale

but we are talking about the far future where everything is already advanced enough, right now even we are struggly in having inexpensive facility to launch a rocket, we are still in the early phase of space exploration where everything is still basics.


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Friendlyuser on April 16, 2024, 03:54:09 PM
Look how technology has advanced over the past half century.

But some have really not, we have internet, intelligent washing machines that you an program to start and close when your solar panes are in full sun, a fridge you can take a live look from your smartphone or make it add things to your order as soon as you get an item out of it but when it comes to flying, we haven't done much. Neither with space technology, we're 70 years after the launch of a satellite and not much has happen.

 


Title: Re: Is space mining creating market differences and on-earth-inflation?
Post by: Argoo on April 22, 2024, 12:18:38 PM
Look how technology has advanced over the past half century.

But some have really not, we have internet, intelligent washing machines that you an program to start and close when your solar panes are in full sun, a fridge you can take a live look from your smartphone or make it add things to your order as soon as you get an item out of it but when it comes to flying, we haven't done much. Neither with space technology, we're 70 years after the launch of a satellite and not much has happen.

 
Everything has its time. After Neil Armstrong walked on the moon on July 20, 1969, the space race between the USA and the USSR was almost curtailed. Later, Edwin Aldrin, the second crew member of the Apollo 11 mission, stated that they then saw aliens on the Moon who did not hide their presence. In order not to show them to the whole world, mission control made artificial interference for two minutes. It seems that this was the reason that space exploration practically ceased.

Today, Russia, the USA and Europe are fighting for the right to become the first country to carry out a manned flight to Mars. The European Exomars Rover is set to head to Mars soon. It is planned that he will take soil samples and draw up a detailed map of the area. Even India launched its Mangalyaan space probe to Mars in November 2013. It is needed to develop technologies for space flights to the Red Planet. China also announced its plans to explore Mars, after the successful launch of the automatic interplanetary station Chang'e-3 to study the Moon. NASA is testing a “flying saucer” designed for a soft landing of a spacecraft in the rarefied atmosphere of the Red Planet.

At the end of July, scientists made a sensational announcement that a unique space engine had been created, thanks to which it would be possible to reach the Moon in just four hours of flight, and to Mars in two and a half months. That is, if you work in this direction, effective space technology will appear quite quickly.