Bitcoin Forum

I was checking mempool and saw the transaction  fee sky rocketing. I am not sure what happened suddenly as these fees are way beyond anyone's imagination. Later on, I did found out that Binance has listed Ordinals (ORDI). I want to ask the community whether the severe high transaction fee occured because of the listing?

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/11/07/t1GIb.jpeg

---

I went ahead and check the price of $ORDI on Binance and found that it is trading at a price which is way beyond it should be. I am sharing the screenshot below.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/11/07/t1M7v.jpeg

---

Anyone here who can give a solution to this issue? I feel they would continue to make the transaction fee in those Satoshi figures . This situation would not help small investors and traders as they would avoid these kinds of transaction fees.

---

Edited on 10th of November 2023

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/11/10/tpSMJ.jpeg

As expected it is now beyond the control of anyone except those who were part of the development. They should come up with a solution otherwise the whole idea would crumbled.

---

Look at this after I posted before the current price.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/11/10/tpZJC.jpeg

This has to stop or everything that was beautiful would become a nightmare. Those who created it have to come out of a unique solution.

---

These fees are insane and out of the limit of anyone who is like me. Imagine someone wants to transfer $10! Do you think these atrocious fee would help them.

Today's date: 6th of December 2023.
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/12/06/NbmD3.jpeg

It is one of the reasons. Ordinals are making use of bitcoin network. Although, the mempool has been congested some days ago. But if there is nothing like Ordinals and BRC20 tokens, the mempool will not be congested as this.

Yeah it seems there many stupid people want to get tricked by Ordinal again, that because Binance is now start accepting this shitcoin (https://tokeninsight.com/en/news/binance-lists-ordi-today-currently-up-47).

It will not affect traders, they're leave their coins in centralized exchange and even they want to withdraw their coins, CEX is charge a fixed fee regardless the situation on mempool.

Ordinals are taking over again right now.
Minting these BRC-20 token creates a ton of TXID. If you have a look at the mempool right now there are around 135k transactiones that are unconfirmed.

There is a good overview from @DdmrDdmr where a lot of ordinals data are shown.
The blocksize weight from Ordinals went from 20-30% to over 60% in the last two days for example. Click here if you want to see all of the remaining data (https://dune.com/ddmrddmr/ordinals-data)

Having experience in this regards is not something new anymore, this is to tell us how the network is busy or congested, but we can always manuever our own way through, try to use a bitcoin wallet like electrum which support RBF, adjust your transactions to the lowest priority, apply the option of static and set the limit to about 20 Satoshi per vbyte, make your payment and use the transaction id to pump your transaction, use via btc to make your transaction faster since it's a mining pool and it's free, another thing you can do is to target weekend transactions or study the mempool when it's less congested.

Before it was all due to the demand of the actual transactions and that's still the same today but we've got some names to name and that's the ordinals.

I just hope that it won't take long until the clogged network will be free and smooth again.

Let's see how long it will last, if it's caused only by one coin, it shouldn't be that long.

Obviously migrate to other chain, just like few months ago where many centralized exchanges start to adopt lightning network.

The fee estimation by Electrum isn't really accurate, since you have an option to adjust the fee by yourself, it's better to not use such "low, medium or high priority".

Well, you never learn out.
Until now I thought there are just a lot of normal btc transactions that fill up the mempool and let transactions fees go through the roof at times.

I didn't even know, er let's say never heard of, these originals things, guess I have to read more.  ::)

Thanks for the link by the way!

Last two weeks, Bitcoin was so hot and it created demands on people to move their bitcoin to take profit. People here means traders or small investors who can not stay calm and don't trade, who can not hold their bitcoins longer till halving and a few months after halving.

Above is organic change in Bitcoin mempools as reactions to Bitcoin price movements but this time, it is different with engagement of BRC20 tokens, Ordinals like months ago.
https://geniidata.com/ordinals/home

See Ordinals Heatmap, they are heating up again.

that's right, that's the reason why bitcoin fees have increased in recent days. i just can't understand why there are still people supporting this shitcoin? it doesn't have any basis or potential for the future, it's only based on market speculation.

and the funny thing is that bitcoin developers are not too serious about this and miners seem to enjoy this because the high fees are profitable for them. though this ordinal should be on a different network, so that it does not interfere with individuals, traders or bitcoin investors who want to use the network for regular transactions.

LOL, it turns out that what was holding up my delivery last night was Ordinal.
I even got stuck on a fairly long transaction yesterday and spent about 24 hours more.
The incident this time may still be tolerable, but when Ordinal appeared the first time the Bitcoin network was completely stuck and transactions became very expensive.

Will this continue and if the ordinal continues to provide disruptive transaction spikes, then this will not be good.

What about the Lightning Network which is not affected by Ordinal and is even faster?
But many don't like Lightning and don't even consider the lightning network part of Bitcoin.

This is really some crazy shit, frankly. It's becoming obvious this is going to be the major bane of Bitcoin, and not even the government we keep poking fingers at for its refusal to fall in line with the mass adoption thing. This congestion gets worse whenever there's price rally a few days in a roll. It frustrates every effort to have smooth transactions. People need seamless (or almost seamless transactions) to want to use a service. In this regard, Bitcoin isn't providing it.

Definitely not related since Bitcoin high transaction is already there few days ago when the pump to 35k started. Probably the hype on that token is due Bitcoin Ordinals popularity now that the mempool is already being flooded by Ordinals transactions.

Withdrawal on that token is already suspended by exchange due to high fee. While the pending transaction volume is not growing either.

What is happening these days with Bitcoin transaction fees is what we are accustomed to seeing whenever its price improves in the market, and it is also what was expected by many observers if the price exceeded the 30,000 barrier. The rise in price reflects increased demand and therefore more transactions are conducted, which motivates miners to select transactions with higher fees, and this will automatically raise fees. It is true that it has become a little exaggerated, but it is not possible to draw conclusions based on a short time.
I hope the situation would improves quickly and goes back to how it was.

not a new protocol. and not allowing NFT
its junk data with no true protocol level proof of transfer. just a lame "suggestion" that transfers happen to a particular output but nothing in data or protocol protects it immutably..

not only is their sat count/position done in error.. but also they can, without changing the blockchain data change the ordering/count methodology in a software update and thus change suggested ownership taint path of previous suggested ownerships.. thus a complete scam

images(junk data meme) and json (junk text) oversold to the creator by the creator to set a fictitious high price for himself(no cost to him if he both buyer and seller) on the market..  hoping a naive idiot will then buy a few sats output suggested as owning meme/text (but not the junk data meme/text itself) thinking they own the junk data several taints back

dont believe the BS of ordinals. its idiots scamming idiots. something putting bitcoins name to shame

I did not imagine that Ordinals and BRC20 tokens would receive such interaction, but last time, Bitcoin network needed about 5 days before fees returned to normal, so high fees are not a permanent problem.
I created this topic last time Delay your Bitcoin transaction for this week| Volunteer campaign (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452017.msg62216027#msg62216027) if you are not in a hurry, postpone your payments for this week, and I am sure that within 5 days everything will change.

Future solutions:

Use Bech32 addresses.
Use wallet that support RBF.
When fees are low Fees not low! Wait for opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.0), consolidate all of your previous transactions into one income.
Use the Lightning Network for everyday payments.

Take note that ViaBTC is a mining pool and if you use their free accelerator and meet all the requirements, you still have to wait until ViaBTC successfully mines a block, and it can take sometime. ViaBTC also accelerates only 100 tx's per hour, so it is likely that you will fall under a queue.

It is also worth mentioning that your fee rate must be 10 sat/byte and above in order to accelerate your tx, also the volume of your tx cannot be more than 500 bytes. ViaBTC works anyway, but i would just check mempool.space and choose a fee rate that is best for my tx at that point in time.

I also thought twice when I was going to send a few satoshis in a small amount because I saw the expensive fees, I decided not to do it now until normal time, the current fees for small transactions are very burdensome.

Maybe I thought that since the $ORDI token entered the Binance exchange, many people made transactions via bitcoin, we know how Binance is influenced when there is a token listing, users will do many things to benefit there because it is clear that the token will rise, but I am not interested in the $ORDI token at all.

Haven't used the lightning network yet, so I don't know if there is any congestion or not.
Yes that's right, I consider that I have never liked the lightning network, it is still for me the onchain network that is more interested in.

If this is your first time then you should really get used to it, the only issue that we do encounter on Bitcoin is into that scalability issue on which on the time that the network gets clogged then
fees would go high but this isnt really as near with that ETH shit fees when theres a bloat of network transactions that flood out on the market. We could have several bucks in terms of fees
which we arent really that get used to and on the time that you do able to see those big changes or fees then you would really be starting to have doubts on why is this.
If you've been here on this market for a while then these kind of moments are really that normal.

Any ways on trying out to lessen the fees? The only way is to make out some conversion with some btc pairs and from there you could
really make that transaction but well its something hassle for me but if you are really that minding on saving up the fees then this would really be your choice.
As for Ordinals then i dont really see the connection. Network do really get flooded for sometime and its a natural thing to happen.

Yes. The high transaction fee occurred because of the listing. Ordinals are currently a major part of Bitcoin's block size, and Binance listing made the situation worse.

A solution could be to limit the amount of arbitrary data that can be included in a transaction (similar to https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8733 (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8733), which was implemented by the monero community to stop transaction spam on the network).

However, given the status quo of Bitcoin development, I don't think it's ever going to be implemented, just like many other needed improvements (such as increasing the block size) that aren't being added.

Had to check mempool, and from the image shown in the OP, the fees as am writing have actually jumped up another plus 20sat/vB which is currently averaging between 77 - 90 sat/vB and looking at number of transactions in the block these are actually getting filled up unlike same time last week we're we saw blocks carrying 1000 transactions to 2500 transactions but now they are all carrying 3500+ tx...which to me suggests that demand to get transactions confirmed in the next block is the primary reason!!!

With these high transactions, this makes making micro payments unattractive and alts could be benefiting from this for now..

Guess what, so where ordinals!
https://dune.com/queries/2433706/3998316
https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool#1m

The first day that 1sat/b tx stopped getting confirmed was the exact day the ordinals started being minted again!
Besides, the first major pump in Bitcoin price happened in the 14-16 interval, the mempool actually went down during those days!


So let me get this right, guys printing jpegs and paying for those around 2 million a day in fees are a treat for Bitcoin, but not the government, which can spend for example 4 million a day on a single aircraft carrier, and the US has 11 of them! Imagine they would truly want to attack Bitcoin as they see it as a threat and redirect just that money to increase the fees to attack Bitcoin, you would be paying $60 per tx by now!  :D

Those ordinals are the worst attack to the Bitcoin network but still those useless Jpeg files are getting appreciation from the ones who really don't care about Bitcoin's network. The ordinals caused huge market back then when the BRC-20 protocol was introduced and now once again those useless tokens are causing network congestion.

It's insane to see 73 sat/vB for low priority transactions and that shows how horrible the ordinals are for us Bitcoiners. I think the developers should find a way to stop those ordinals as they are huge risk for Bitcoin network. Those useless tokens are creating many TX's and which's causing network congestion.

The worst thing is that those useless tokens are now getting listed in centralized exchanges and that means that more and more network congestion for Bitcoin transactions. I think it's the start of those useless ordinals and who knows in future how severe network congestions they may create.

I don't think this listing of ORDI has anything to do with congestion and, to be frank, we have seen more so I would not that the fee is beyond anyone's imagination I think you were not active in the market when the price for the fee were touching $32. Yeah if you want to know more you might want to visit the following thread:

• Why BTC Transactions Fees are Skyrocketing? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452050.msg62216999#msg62216999)

And to some extent, it does have some impact on the congestion because it is a BRC-20 token so based on the BTC blockchain. This really upsets me like how money makers who don't give a shit about BTC are misusing it to make what like 10x or 50x maximum (just assume). They still are doing the wrong thing IMHO.

I had a look into the blocks confirmed as at the time of this post it was at 815740 and the last block to be mined by viabtc pool is block 815721 which around 20 blocks down, imagine having to wait this long and if you don’t get into the next block mined by them you wait way longer again, definitely a long time before wait.

Although according to their FAQ you could get your transaction mined by other pools because they have a cooperation with other multiple pools but I doubt it will be for free services, it will certainly be for those paid services because they could be paying commission to those pools too. In order to pay miners it will be logical to just use the fee rate estimate by mempool.space as you said or wait till they get less congested a bit if one is not in a hurry to receive the transaction

It is for sure because of the Ordinals and we see this because of the listing at the binance. I remember that a few months ago the Ordinals were in the hype and at that time too, the mempool was congested resulting in the high tx price.

Anyways this is a party time for the miners as their revenues are increased by many times these days.


Well, if the mempool is congested like it is now, will it take longer to mine the block too ?
Yes, I know that the transaction fee is increased but due to this, the block mining time is also increasing ?

Honestly, this whole ordinals thing didn't really bring in any benefit that could balance the negative that it brought in. I have to say that it has profited only a few people while also making all of bitcoin to be something that is way too expensive to use. That is what bitcoin world should go towards, being "used", and if the transaction takes longer than thirty minutes and costs this much money, how could we say that it is definitely worth to be used, nobody would use it. This is why its a lot better to make sure that we could end up with something that is much better, and could be done in a way that would be cheaper and faster. Which means we need to get rid of ordinals type of things.

Checking out on https://mempool.space/

Low Priority
91 sat/vB
$4.51

Medium Priority
102 sat/vB
$5.06

High Priority
107 sat/vB
$5.31

This is really a pain in the ass.This isnt the first time but anytime that the network condition is on traffic or tons of pending transactions
then this do usually happens. Its been a while that we havent seen this kind of traffic. Checking out the price then its playing on 35k.
Havent see any news or events that triggers out this situation but well there might be some non obvious reason
with this sudden spike on transaction.

This is not something new and it is also not an issue. Those who can invest could easily use that transaction fee. We have faced similar situation with even higher fees few months ago, maybe. It was more than 350 sat/vB. I may have forgotten but it was higher than this. There was some kind of news as people were making more transaction than usual making the blockchain more crowded.

This is not an issue because you can set the fee manually. You can even put as less as 1 sat/vB. It will take time for the blockchain to cool down but when it does, you transaction will go through. It's all about having patience and if it's not important then just ignore it. But if you are desperate, you have no other choice but to use the dedicated / default fee

No. The average time it takes to mine blocks depends on the difficulty and the the total hash power of miners. The number of transactions in the mempool has nothing to do with the block time.
It may worth mentioning that, the average block time is always approximately 10 minutes on average and the difficulty is adjusted every 2016 blocks to keep the average block time close to 10 minutes.

Now the fees keep increasing it is more than 100sat/vB for high priority and I believe it would increase more it's not as good as yesterday.
The only reason that I could see is due to the ordinals we saw this issue on ETH that keeps gas fees rising, and now Bitcoin is having trouble with Ordinals which keeps the fees high same as what happens to ETH when PlayToEarn rises.

---

The mempool chart for incoming transactions shows a big drop in incoming transactions it seems fees suddenly dropped from 100sat/vB to 70sat/vB.

I can imagine if more people will use Ordinals in the future I hope that they develop their own blockchain or have separate chains to get rid of these fees.

It is the enthusiasm of the beginnings, but soon people discover that writing on the Bitcoin blockchain is expensive and not as valuable as they see, and thus this type of spam will decrease. Unfortunately, we do not have much to do because these transactions are compatible with the protocol, but I do not expect them to have a future and impact as happens to some NFT markets, so What is happening is temporary and a tax OF decentralization.

Sadly, most Binance listing somehow influences the market due to the exchange level of liquidity and the chance of quick profit the exchange listing always provide to the cryptocurrency investment.
Another sad thing is that 90% of all crypto investments only care about profit and have no sentiment for the market condition.

The solution I can think of is the implementation of Schnorr signatures which will also improve security and privacy. Another is the use of lightning network.

I think they are more than stupid because they are only after the profit aspect of the market and never care about the result with the huge transaction fee the ordinal is creating in the BTC network.

Yeah, you are right, if you use ViaBTC paid service, your tx can be included in a block mined by one of their cooperative pools.
But rather than using the paid service for tx acceleration, it is better to have checked the mempool before broadcasting in order to pay an appropriate fee, or you bumb the tx with rbf if it is stucked.
BTC blocks are mined ~ 10 minutes on average. The network is congested because fee rate is high and people who attached low tx fees will have to wait as their tx will be unconfirmed, but if you use the fee rate for high priority, your tx will likely be mined in the next block.

Lightning Network should be the solution but the issue with it is not resolved yet.  I think if you keep on using Bitcoin, no one has a solution for it unless the developer blocks the ordinals and keep it out of Bitcoin networ.



Yeah, the transaction is way too expensive and it is devastating for small-time businesses and it is not good for the Bitcoin economy since these small businesses might be forced to stop their support by disabling Bitcoin payment option.

---

Binance accepting Ordinals simply shows they do not care about Bitcoin but their own business.

---

I did a transaction recently and the average tx fee suggested by Electrum made me wait 10 hours to confirm.  This is not good if Bitcoin wants to compete with fiat payment processors.

This Ordinals thing has not completely died yet. There are still little news or developments every now and then which somehow resuscitate it. ORDI's listing on Binance, for example, is one of them. But I don't think Ordinals is still as popular as it was before. It had a quick golden age and it is now facing its sunset.

I've just checked the mempool and there are still 138,028 unconfirmed transactions and high priority fee is a staggering 100 Sat/vB. Even so, I don't see this as permanent. This will all subside sooner rather than later. The hype of Ordinals will die.

The Binance listing made $ORDI price go up because it brought more awareness It's also the cause of the congestion on Bitcoin network because the network isn't made for that. Although, I bought some $ORDI. but that was on Bitget before Binance Listing and I sold some after the pump because I just wanna buy more Bitcoin.
So, As people keep minting some NFTs or Brc20 on Ordinals, the Bitcoin transaction fees go higher because its built on Bitcoin network.

In this Tweet (https://twitter.com/rodarmor/status/1721999174756188637), @rodamor made it clear that ORDI does not have a direct relation to the Ordinals project (*). The Tweet even led  Binance to recently rectify (https://twitter.com/BinanceHelpDesk/status/1722099943064940967) some of the token’s info on its page regarding $ORDI.

As far as I can make out, each $ORDI is backed by one Satoshi, though I see this backing more as a conceptual thing than anything, since the token flows in value at will.

From what I’ve read, its utility seems to reside in:
Edit: Let's leave the above user cases in quarantine for now, until some evidence of this being so or potentially so being comes to light.

(*)There is therefore some relation to Ordinals, just not strictly at a core level, at least as far as I can tell. Bearing in mind the above quote, its listing should have no direct relation to Bitcoin network TX Fees, but rather these should relate to the number of Ordinals inscriptions themselves (not the token, though the buzz may cause for a higher demand of both, and even more so when many may be confusing the two).

See : https://www.publish0x.com/cointurk-news/ordinals-adding-extra-data-to-bitcoin-and-creating-nfts-with-xnkxqze


Going over  My Ordinals Dashboard (https://dune.com/ddmrddmr/ordinals-data) (I’ve refreshed some parts now to get a clearer picture), Ordinal inscription numbers boosted from the 24/10/2023 onwards, reclaiming daily bitcoin processed transactions related to Ordinals to be in a range around 40%-60% as of late (last 4 out of 5 days). This is the result not only of the daily inscriptions, but of the cumulative backlog that started to build from the 24/10/2023 onwards.

Consequently, daily Ordinal average fees have steepened over recent days, moving from the placid average of 6,6 sats/vByte on the 02/11/2023, through to 42,4 sats/vByte on the 04/11/2023, to yesterday’s 44,5 sats/vByte on average. Subsequently, all bitcoin TXs fees have paired on the rise, bearing in mind the drive in number of TXs that Ordinals represent as of late, as seen in the prior paragraph.

ORDI is back and it is causing a lot of trouble for bitcoin transactions. Many people thought that this ORDI was dead, but according to what I saw in the past 2 days, it was not only revived but also very strong. Not only Binance list ORDI, another token called Sats is also being listed by major exchanges. This suggests that the transaction fee issue will not improve anytime soon as the BRC20 trend is still very strong.

To me, BRC20 is nothing more than a meme, they were created to create hype to attract new people to become liquidity for market makers. So I think they will not easily disappear but will continue to exist and develop.

Isn't that the crazy part of crypto? I have been into crypto for few years now and the one thing that's learned and that haven't change yet is that the most stupid utilities in crypto space tend to work for the next bull market and millionaires are always printed by them.

I have said this before that Ordinals have the potential to get people rich in 2025, it's something new and it's even on BTC, of cos it doesn't make it the best thing but that's the way things are, it's how we all called Shiba inu a shit god forsaken project and meme coins printed many millionaires still.

Now this Ordi is trading for $13-$14, yes it's probably another meme coin but ask yourself, why are you in crypto space even if Bitcoin is your most trusted project ever? You can possibly use Ordinals to get more Bitcoin on the long run, so be prepared for an insane spending on transaction fee in 2024-2025 and miners will be there to rip the most profits out of everyone.

Unfortunately this is unavoidable. 

In fact, there's a lot of many reasons can be exchange into other coin wiht a pair of the bitcoin now the active traders make their move in every situation so they grab and scalp each profit, actualy its not the only day, because even this week the rise up of the bitcoin trades are often congested afaik I saw that it reaches for over 4$ just to have a medium transaction there's alot of block transaction stuck because of this number people make trades with their bitcoin. This means people now are keep engaging with the bitcoin network.

You have to check https://mempool.space/ before making your tx, sometimes Electrum might not give you a good estimate when making your tx, if you check mempool.space, you can then customize your fee rate in Electrum to that for high priority, and you may not have to wait for so long for a confirmation. Though take note that you could broadcast your tx and the fee rate in the mempool goes high, meaning you have to either wait for the fee rate to drop, or you have to bump your tx with rbf.

BTC isn't competing with other payment systems, blocks are mined ~ 10 minutes on average, and tx fee rate can go high sometimes, meaning that you have to outbid other users by paying a higher fee to get a space in a miners block.

BRC20 is on it again.

Binance is the culprit and I guess that they should make a solution on this one. They're affecting literally everyone with such fees because high priority costs $4 and a few cents.

That's so much for the fees when the transfer is just going to be around $4-$10 although we're allowed to adjust that but you can expect with these volatile times and fees have been dynamic, it might take a long time if you adjusts to medium and low priority.

you are very optimistic if you think high fees are not a permanent problem.  high fees will occur over and over and over see the pattern below:

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/11/08/t5zMG.png

---

it will repeat over and over and over. there are many groups of people with a vested financial interest In having btc fees sky rocket.

Most likely once the Ordinals trend starts to fade after the Binance listing, the transactions should go down. This has been happening all year. It has its spikes but eventually people get bored of Ordinals and just move on to something else.

Probably 2 more weeks of this and we should level out. If you need to do a transaction try and get it done on the weekend, most likely you will be able to get a 25sat/byte transaction there, so if you got a segwit address it shouldn't cost too much.

Yeah those looking to drive fees high can not afford to do it on a 365 day basis. So they cycle up when ever they can.

It is nice to earn the extra coin via fees I am earning around 103% a block vs 97% a block

This is what i like when using up Electrum on which you could really be able to modify fees according into the amount that you are really that willing to be spend in terms of fees amount.
In regarding on the situation and connecting out on BRC20 then its not really that new anymore, this kind of network congestion is never been the first time that do happen into the network.
Just like on what mentioned above, this would usually flat out on 1-2 weeks time basing up on the last congestion similar as this but if you are really that in a rush
on pushing up a transaction then you could always have that option on taking that high priority fee.

The ones who are mainly affected into this one are to those people who are really that making some micro transactions on which even if 4-5 bucks isnt that much on some people
but this is an amount that not all would really be liking to see on. No one really likes to pay up high fees but this is actually the main flaw of Bitcoin
is on about its scalability but well we arent experiencing this problem all of the time.Indeed there are really just times of  the year that we would really be
hitting up this scenario.

Yes, as per mempool the fees are:

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/11/09/t9mrq.png

And it looks like this is a coordinate attack in the last couple of weeks to really increased the fees and make the bitcoin network not usable for ordinary investors. We have this kind of situation before if I'm not mistaken, around May and we didn't do anything about it but just to wait for this whole BRC-20 ordinals to die down. But now they are at it again. Specially the timing though, when we are about to make a good run, some entities will have to ruined it.

Yes today was bad, I was expecting a dip in the transaction fees but if you wanted any transaction to go thru you would need to pay up 100 sats byte.

The fact that Bitcoin broke to new yearly highs many probably want to sell some and this is causing the backlog to get bigger and bigger.

Maybe this weekend we will get a nice dip in transaction fees but who knows.

Yeah at this point it is hard to know what's happening next.
I just wanted to do a little transaction and the last number I had in mind from yesterdat was like 50-60 sat/b for a transaction. When I checked right now what the actual fee would be I was a bit shocked about the graph at the mempool site.

It's insane to be forced to pay over 140 sat/b again, I really want to throw up.

We need a fix and a solution for that asap.

You can say that again!

At the moment bitcoin isn't looking attractive not only to ordinary investors but also to users who use it regularly for micro payments and actually with these high transaction fees I see this negatively affecting the gig industry which uses crypto payment a lot...

And with this coordinated attack, we must give the ordinals a hand for not getting bored doing this , spamming the network and all but with time they sure will need to focus their energy elsewhere, let's hang in there & wait for this wave to pass  8)

Well they can do it, to spam the network again with high fees, perhaps they are doing it intentionally and make bitcoin developers realized another sidechain and scaling solution. But I'm not an expert on it so I will leave if to someone who has more technical skills.

However, I don't also think that they can intentionally do this forever, sooner or later it will have to settle down again.

So for now that is the best thing to do, wait and if we really don't know to spend then just continue to hold.

Miners will stay neutral in this war because they are middle men who get most benefit from higher, more expensive transaction fees on Bitcoin blockchain. They do their works and if they get more money from mining, they are happy. The responsibility is from Bitcoin nodes which come from Bitcoin mining pools, miners too but not all Bitcoin full nodes are from mining entities.

I see this spam type will only end if Bitcoin protocol will be updated to prevent it to be accepted by miners. This will be very challenging task for developers if they don't get support from Bitcoin miners to vote for a new consensus.

Those Ordinals guys can create new projects, new tokens to milk from Bitcoin blockchain and make harmful effects on non BRC-20 token fans.

If these attack continue then I won't be suprised to see 150 sat/vB to the range of 200sat/vB. The USD value will go up if Bitcoin price continues to pumps for the next 8 days. That will hurt the sentiments more as people tend to look into the USD value more often for transaction fees.

If I remember correctly we faced a similar issue a couple of months back. At that time the memepool was completely conjusted and the transaction fee was too high to complete a small transaction. There should be a solution to this issue otherwise it might become a constant affair.

We don't need a fix or a sidechain like some people are suggesting, we just need to find a way or wait for BRC20 to disappear then I believe everything will return to normal. The main reason for the recent high transaction fees similar to what happened in May this year is due to most BRC20 transactions. BRC20 is nothing but a meme even worse than some other altcoins, I thought they were dead and gone but to my surprise, Binance listed them and made them revive.

Can't fix it, ban it!
Also, what's normal for you?
Transactions of 1 sat/b getting confirmed the next block, empty blocks like two years ago because...well nobody was using it?
What happens if people do strat using it? What if those hundred million around the globe will do at least one tx a month?
What are you going to ban that time?

This is getting out of control. There are some transactions that haven't been approved for a week. Moreover, while you used to get fast confirmation with around $1 fee before, now you can't get even for $3-4. If high fees will have to be paid for each transaction like in the ETH network, this won't be good for Bitcoin. Whether it's because of Ordinals or something else, this kind of traffic is something that needs to be solved for the future of Bitcoin.

bitcoin devs need to get back to the idea of transacting bitcoin for bitcoin purpose. this means making lean transactions of every byte count. where each byte serves a purpose and has a reason for being in a transaction. (to prove the authenticity of bitcoin transfer) the other junk should be rejected if it does not serve a purpose for bitcoins functionality. bitcoins purpose is not memes and json junk

things like "isvalid" that has no checks/validation code attached but just keeps the transaction without understanding the purpose of the bytes of the transaction need to be dealt with.

they can be dealt with in a way that does not break bitcoin. its called code. code creates rules. rules create efficiencies.

there are many many ways to create code that create efficient use of transaction data, to allow more utility where fee's dont have to go outrageously high

the only reason this junk is being allowed to persist is because the devs that allowed it in the first place have sponsorship deals to make bitcoin a headache, just to promote other networks as the solution people need to migrate over to(abandoning bitcoin) so that the sponsors can make middleman profits(ROI on sponsorship) via the other network adoption

again bitcoin devs need to get back to caring about bitcoin and bitcoins purpose. not some sponsorship deal of promoting utility of another network by bastardising bitcoin

when you realise the main core devs (blockstream, chaincodelabs,brinks) have been sponsors hundreds of millions of dollars, that investment require alot of users of other subnetworks to pay alot of "pennies" per payment on the "cheap" subnetworks for the sponsors to ROI break even
so their game is to really push the bitcoin headaches to the max and make bitcoin unaffordable to transact to persuade everyone to abandon bitcoin and play on their preferred subnetwork

(if 200m people transacted for $0.001 on a "cheap subnetwork") 1 tx a day each user is $200k for the network
it would tke them 1000 days to break even (3 years)

after 6 years of these "promising" subnetworks they only have ~5k of btc locked up and only 15k nodes. not the 200m userbase and Xmilion btc locked up they hope to have. so they are really trying to get people over to their subnetworks via making bitcoin scams, spams, memes and congestions to make bitcoin a headache (and yes ordinals:ratimov is a chaincode lab and LN associate)

Can all this be an attack to the bitcoin network, whose the purpose is to make everyday users suffer due to high fees?

Bitcoin will not suffer because of that, but we will, unless we use LN.

This ordinals made me to waste coins last time and here it come again. The simple way t solve this problem is to remove these Ordinals from the bitcoin network. Then the the congestion rate will reduce and the transaction fee will also reduce. And like this now many can not withdraw or make a transaction because of the high fee. Early this when I did a transaction I fell the impact of the high fee compared to other times.

This is the second time the transaction fee is going high in this year. And I said this will affect many people. We just pray that it will not stay longer than a week.

I have updated the OP and I am not happy with what is happening at the moment. If the developer team don't come up with a solution then this might be the end of financial freedom. This is going beyond what everyone thought as Ordinals are now growing more powerful than what we expected.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/11/10/tpFJc.png

Its kind of fun watching what's going on with our transaction fees on mempool...

and interesting enough is that someone keeps bumping the average sat/vB to X5 whats there.... for example if this person finds the highest priority fee being 40 sat/vB he/she bumps it to 200 sta/vB and this has been going on all day!

Could miners be onto this and someone is enjoying spamming the Bitcoin network??

Absolutely. However, they are losing money doing this, so don't worry. At some point the network will be back to normal. It's sad for ordinary users though, but luckily we can use LN.

I personally feel it won't last longer and as soon as the hype for ORDI is over then the tx fees should come back to normal rates as earlier.
We have seen such price jumps earlier and it was over within few days as the tx got confirmed.
We just have to wait until the mempool is free.

Eh, another proof that btc need higher TPS but no one want to listen

It might be very possible that the increase in transaction fees could be related to the listing of Ordinals on Binance but it is also worth noting that there is an increase in overall activity on the blockchain and possibly, there could be a shortage of computing power available to process transactions. So there is no doubt that Ordinals can contribute to network congestion and the increment of transaction fees it takes up more space on the blockchain and can slow down the overall network and whatever the case is, it's definitely worth investigating further.


It's actually annoying but removing Ordinals could set a precedent for other use cases to be removed in the future and this would have a negative impact on the overall development of the Bitcoin network.

The problem can't be low network hash rate. The average block is now around 9.8 minutes and that means that the hash rate has increased since the last difficulty adjustment.
Also note that even if the network hash rate decreases and blocks take bigger time to be mined, the next difficulty adjustment will solve the problem.

As mentioned many times in this thread and other threads, the network is congested due to transactions related to ordinals.

Satoshi Nakamoto - Bitcoin white paper "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.

This concept gives Bitcoin it's value. If we don't nurture this idea then Bitcoin is just another centralized financial vehicle with questionable value.

Don't let Ordinals destroy the hope and financial sovereignty created by Bitcoin and it's stated purpose.

Tom McPhail

This probably won't affect traders since they trade using exchange, small investors also will not be affected by this situation.
Honestly, I experienced this kind of stuff yesterday, I transfer some some mbtc to exchange but I didn't received a notification that's why I decided to check the transaction to blockchair and found out that 1 confirmation takes 24hrs. I was shock since I payed more from my usual fee just to make sure that I will immediately receive to my exchange account. I decided to bump the fee but still won't work, that's why I cancelled the transaction. Then I tried different fee estimation algorithm which is mempool, and it works. So to those who are experiencing network congestion, try to use mempool instead of ETA and Static.

The reality is LTC/Doge can do the same thing  and we have reached a different era for BTC

IE big ass storage of wealth.

You simply can't show that for small peer to peer sends the LTC/Doge are not better.

So far BTC has done multiple tweaks to do better with small transactions.

bc1 has better fees
legacy 3 addresses have better fees
LN have better fees

but even with all that network clogs an 100 or 200 sats a byte are needed.

I can safely send 10000 usd worth of LTC for as low as 0.00000134 ltc or under 1 tenth of a penny.

BTC simply needs to give up the idea they can match LTC/Doge for cheap fast sends.

and btw watts to wealth is the foundation for satoshi's idea. no one can show that LTC/Doge does not do watts to wealth.

If you think of them like a scooter or a bike

and think of btc like a bus or train it would be far far far more realistic way to promote the 3 most important pow coins.

I had been wondering why Bitcoin was taking so long to confirm the transaction. After reading your topics and other replies, I have realised that the current Bitcoin network is congested due to Ordinals. It seems it went viral and was hyped, and since they let mint NFT in the Bitcoin blockchain, so many mining transactions are ongoing there. However, this issue will be normal when the hype is gone. Nothing concerning here; since Binance listed them, the community has become hyped and is mining NFTs there.

Let's look at the fundamentals.  What are the problems we are actually trying to solve with Bitcoin:

1. Centralized control of the currency.
2. Freedom to transact without 3rd party approval.
3. A broken banking system with fractional reserve banking and second layer of currency controls.
4. All of the power and corruption that comes along with a government printing money with no limits.
 
If Bitcoin is not used as a currency it fixes none of these.
If you just want a digital currency the dollar works just fine.

If you want to solve these problems you need Bitcoin the way it was intended.
A self custody, purely peer-to-peer currency that is decentralized.

Without that you have another centrally controlled investment vehicle for the rich and powerful.

Is there any solution to what is happening with the transaction fee? Apart from getting the Blockchain forked what else can be done. The fees are now becoming a pain for small business owners and those who make micro payment.

I think everyone should move towards the LN. As it is the only option left now. Considering a person who wants to buy $20 wort of product or someone interested in transferring $20 worth of Bitcoin. They would need to pay $5 worth of fees. Is this what Bitcoin meant when it was launched.

In the end a common person won't be able to enjoy swift transaction other than finding a solution to preserve money in the form of Bitcoin.

The situation now in the Bitcoin network is not a new thing. The last time the mempool was congested, it was very severe and if I'm not mistaken,  even more severe than this current situation and there was no forking of the Bitcoin network.  I believe we will scale through and the system will not be forked.



Do you really believe the LN is the solution, Considering the congestion of the mempool and high transaction fee?
LN would be a nice option only if the LN was open before the congestion on the mempool which resulted in the hike in transaction fee. But if you want to open the LN now that the mempool is already congested and Transaction fees is already high, you will still pay a very high opening fee before you can access the LN and still pay another very high transaction fee to return back to the unchained. You see? This very high opening and closing fees are discouraging .

Of course LN is the solution but provided you have opened the channels already. If not, you will have to pay the opening fee which is on-chain and as such, you will have to pay high fees.

In 2021, a friend of mine was trying to convince me to open LN channels now and not in the upcoming years, because who know how high the fees would be. But in 2021, I didn't know a lot about LN, so... Unfortunately I have only a few open channels now.

Why would the Bitcoin developers add anything to core that would make it less efficient and more congested and why would anyone support any solution that centralizes Bitcoin and puts 3rd parties in the middle of every Bitcoin transaction?

Fundamentally both of these things defeat the purpose of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin's purpose and it's value comes from the idea that people and organizations can transact peer-to-peer on a decentralized network.  Without both of these core tenants, Bitcoin fails to be a solution to the current monetary system.

If you want a monetary system that is fast and relatively cheap then use the US Dollar. If you want a truly peer-to-peer, decentralized money then insist that the core developers work to make Bitcoin more efficient and less centralized.

I just now check the mempool and found the fees have touched a new high again. As of now you would need to pay $16 as a fee for a Bitcoin transaction. Considering what was promoted and promised these fee are higher than a government based international transactions fee.

An amount of $16 as fee is way beyond the reach of anyone who is new to this culture of decentralisation. Considering what is happening now I feel decentralisation has a big loophole.

What do you guys think?

The high fees does not affect BTC's decentralization, what it affects is the use case of BTC as a means of payment, with the fees as high as it is now, it is almost impossible for people to use it for payments, especially micro payments. We have been discussing about ordinals and the congestion it is causing in the network, i thought it would be over by now, but i was wrong and i can't even see an end to it anytime soon. I think the only solution right now is for bitcoiners to adapt, they can use LN for micro payments or hold their coins until fee rate drops a little.

Depends on the amount you want to send. Sure, sending 2$ for a 16$ fee is absurd, but try to send an international transfer of a million $. 16$ fee is ridiculously cheap then.

Lightning is a solution for micro payments.

Maybe, Fee fees really depend on network density and each exchange also has different withdrawal fee policies. However, if we look at the current conditions, fee fees are only increasing. I tried to test sending BTC which was worth approximately 20 dollars if converted with the requested fee of $13.55 it's already over 50% percent and it's very unnatural. At least, like you said, hold on.

Bitcoin blockchain can not compare with altcoin blockchains in transaction speed and transaction fee (cheap). Litecoin or Dogecoin can be a very good choice if you want to have cheap transaction fee and also faster confirmation time too.

However, they are more fitted for small transactions and even you can do your transaction with value like $10,000 through Litecoin or Dogecoin blockchain, if the value is bigger, Bitcoin blockchain will be a better choice or the only choice.

https://howmanyconfs.com/

Litecoin or Dogecoin blockchain can be used too but if for high valued transaction, I will split it too many transactions and broadcast them on different days.

With Litecoin or Dogecoin blockchain, it needs to have more confirmations to avoid 51% attacks but if something is already wrong, waiting more hours can not help my money safe.

Let's take a look at how the price of Bitcoin continues to soar, this of course will also affect transaction fees for Bitcoin, because the network is getting denser and many transactions need to be confirmed.
But if the increase in transaction fees is due to the increase in Bitcoin or bullish this will only happen temporarily.

Rather than the increase in Bitcoin transactions due to BRC20, it is worse because BRC20 clearly accounts for a lot of transactions so fees are getting more expensive.

See the picture below, Bitcoin transaction fees are indeed increasing
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/12/06/Nbygb.png (https://www.talkimg.com/image/Nbygb)
https://bitcoinfees.net/

Due to the rapid rise in the price of Bitcoin, these transaction fees have also increased significantly as these fees are reduced by miners.  If the price of Bitcoin struggles a bit, its fee will come down again.  Now huge amount of transactions are being done due to which the transaction fee of Bitcoin is forced to increase.  We have seen this happen many times before but it has come down again.  It will come down again just like that, maybe it will take some time

This is not true, BTC tx fees is not determined by the price of BTC or even the amount of coins you are sending, BTC tx fees is determined by the size of your tx, the adddress type used and how congested or free the mempool is. Fees are also neither increased or reduced by miners. Nobody sets the fees, but the community itself, in the sense that fee rate rises when there is congestion and you have to outbid another user for block space and it drops when the mempool is free.
This is true, but how many people use BTC for a payment running into millions of dollars, i can say that it would be just a few people, there would be more bitcoiners using BTC for micro payments.

This is nuts and it doesn't make a lot of fun when you got some BTC stuck in some wallet and want to move it, but it isn't a significant amount. Sure if somebody wants to send a million dollars from A to B in BTC, this is the perfect way to do it. But having funds stuck because it is uneconomical to send them is bad. It is even worse when you use a wallet and got several inputs on different addresses, damn I was just checking what it would cost me and it hurts.

It is quite volatile as well, sometimes it is getting closer to 100 s/, but then it jumps up again towards 200 s/b. Now I am asking myself for how long this might be going on. When there is a lot of action in the market, it would not be surprising if it stays like this for a while. :(

I've made a transaction and that fees made me crazy, I've lost what's being required by the mempool with the highest priority. I am aware of it but I have to do the transaction and cost me a lot honestly. And to see that the transaction fees dropped a lot, I should have been more patient and did my own transaction when the fees are a bit low than earlier.

While I see people that are trading ordi are happy with their gains because of the pump that it has got and those that are doing margin trading. I don't know if they are aware of what it is doing to the network of Bitcoin and making the fees too much this time. Anyway, I know that this is temporary and still believing that we will see the lowest possible fees ever again.

Bitcoin has value for one reason - People believe that it can transcend the current fiat currency system that is controlled by the central banks of the world.

This fee problem is completely predictable and storing digital art(Ordinals) makes Bitcoin completely useless as a peer-to-peer digital currency.
 
Bitcoin needs to provide an efficient way for people to exchange a digital currency and the ordinals are destroying Satoshi's vision of that decentralized, peer-to-peer digital currency. Ordinals and are completely unnecessary for these transactions.

This mistake will need to be rectified for Bitcoin to have a future.

Losing sight of the vision of Bitcoin may have turned bitcoin into a complete waste of energy.  If Bitcoin isn't a digital currency than what value is an encrypted string of characters generated by a computer?????

This is why I always send my transaction with a custom tx fee that is adjusted manually.  I lowered the fee to my desired amount and just enabled RBF just in case the situation needs me to confirm the transaction asap.


These people don't care about the Bitcoin network, what they care is that they are getting profit from their trades.  I also think that the Bitcoin developer will do something about this problem.  If this continues, then more likely we will see many Bitcoin users look for alternatives.  Only Bitcoin holders is not affected by this network fee hike because they are not moving their coins anyway.

You have to check the change in the transaction fee of the Binance which is considered as the top most and trusted exchange in the current market.They had increased from 0.00025 to 0.00045 when the bull market was up in the bitcoin price.Later now they increased their own transaction fee to 0.0006 which is almost 26.2$.

The binance exchange should consider about the margin traders who use to transfer 20-30$ to their wallets,do they think the traders will afford to pay 26$ for the transaction of 20-30$.This was more fishy and the huge liquidity based Binance should consider the fee for the margin traders.Because the market is mostly with the margin traders as compared to the whales.

Even I used 113 sat/vB some time ago still long enough to be confirmed, had to wait about 6 hours more and was forced to raise the Gas fee even higher to be confirmed immediately.

Using Electrum and Increasing transaction fees with RBF will be very useful.
Using a wallet that supports RBF can solve transaction congestion, but with the consequence Gas costs will be more expensive but prioritized.
RBF allows you to rebroadcast similar transactions at a higher cost if the original transaction crashes, so you can try sending a transaction at a very low cost and then raise it several Satoshi at once until it is confirmed.

And if you ask until when this congestion will occur, of course until all transactions are confirmed all and BRC20 Ordinal is the main problem on congestion.
But now because of Bitcoin's quite drastic rise as well, so the cost is increasing.

Reminded me of the transaction fees last 2017 where the fees were almost as high as what it is a few hours ago (currently it's already at $3).
If I remember correctly, transaction fees of Bitcoin in 2017 went to as high as $20 or even higher. This time, the highest that I saw was at around $17.

TBH, I don't know when this will end, and this also reminds me of the NFT hype a few years ago where transaction fees under the Ethereum Blockchain were so insanely high that it came to a point where the transaction fee was higher than the price of the NFT. Overall, I guess the thing that we can do is either wait or pay high gas fees if it's urgent. Using other coins might be a good solution as well.

As for me, what I'm doing is I still put low gas fees instead of paying higher fees because I know that it will go down soon. 40 sat/vB is what I always use when I'm transferring, and even though it takes days for it to be confirmed, it's not urgent so it's still Ok for me. F*ck these ordinals who are making these fees very high.

I remember the first btc fee spike of the year was in May, mostly from Ordinal being launched and the second spike of the year was also related to Ordinal. did you realize this is very similar to ETH where the merger occurred, and now it is happening to Bitcoin which is acting differently post Ordinal. I hope this problem doesn't last long and hopefully it will return to normal. because many people tip some people in BTC and that makes it impossible/not feasible because of transaction fees.

But personally, I don't mind expensive fees because for me, don't think about what Bitcoin can do for you, but think about what you can do for Bitcoin, and what I'm doing now is Hold.

I had the same problem.
Wanted to pay something fast and even 150 sat/b didn't confirm since there was no block mined for yet another hour. Of course in that time there were like 15-20k transactions on top of mine and I had to adjust to fee to over 200sat/b.
With high prices as they are right now it is really a lot we have to pay to get a transaction confirmed in a reasonable time.

I mean, the memepool isn't even that full at the moment. Some months ago we had 600k transactions pending and still the fast transaction fee was between 30-40 sat/b.

In the last 12 hours the situation at least became a little bit better and now we can get confirmations at around 70 sat/b, compared to the 200-250 sat/b we had 24 hours ago this seems like a real bargain.  ::)

If you felt being robbed in November mempool so what more today and yesterday?

The Mempool is so congested  and rocketing to the lowest fee of 164 sat/vB and that is terribly high , that almost 1/4-1/3 of each transactions seems to be for the fee.

Was also waiting till when the pool go lower for me to cash out and take this advantage to sell and buy while the market is bullying.

If you are sending funds to your own address or consolidating your inputs, then you can simply attach a low tx fee and wait for as long as possible for it to be confirmed, as long as you do not need the funds. But people who are making payments or sending the funds to another party cannot do that, because you want the tx to be confirmed as soon as possible, and in that case you have to pay more in fees, which is sadly very high right now.

As someone who is inexperienced to this, can you please provide a step-by-step process on how to do this?

I currently have BTCs in my BitPay wallet and I cannot transfer it to my local wallet due to the very high transaction fees being required (more than $20 currently). Is there like a website or an application that I can use for me to send my BTCs by using a relatively lower fee? I do not mind if the transaction would take days; what matters is that I receive it on my local wallet.

I just really hope that in the coming days, the price of tx fees would be much lower. The last time I remembered high tx fees was during the last quarter of 2017. Even if price of BTCs reached an ATH of ~$68,000, tx fees were relatively lower during that time.

I’m seeing different things on my Ordinals Dashboard (https://dune.com/ddmrddmr/ordinals-data) though. I’ve just refreshed the most meaningful parts of the Dashboard, and it currently shows that:

Weight of Ordinals per day (blocksize):
-   Insofar, the weight of Ordinals is 19% of aggregate blocksize, 19,5% yesterday, 34% the day before, and 42,1% the one before that.

-   I’m more interested in seeing the percentage of Ordinal mined TXs, and that is insofar today 35,2% today, 15,6% yesterday, 33,8% the day before, and 38,4% the day before that.

Number of ordinal TXs:
-   56.887 insofar today, 73.086 yesterday, 173.957 the day before, and 219.115 the day before that.

Looking at the above data, yesterday’s roughly 300 sat/vByte fee range seems to me clearly related to bitcoin regular organic TXs, related to the surge in bitcoin price, shifting Ordinal TXs to wait their turn somewhere in the pending 251 TXs in the mempool. Today looks somewhat similar, and I get the feeling that Ordinals TXs are lurking there, waiting for the most for their turn at lower fees than regular TXs. This is of course quick to shift, and we might shortly see a shift back to Ordinal TX predominance, or, what’s worse, a rise in the fees they pay to compete with current regular high paing TXs. We’ll see …

Today’s fees are in the 50 sats/vByte ..  150 sats/vByte minimum range, with a rise on the last mine block to 324 sats/vByte due to a 57 minute gap between blocks 820131 and 820130. No block has been mined in over 40 minutes, so again we’ll over 300 sats/vByte in the coming block, and we’ll see if it settles down a bit as soon as blocks get mined at closer intervals.

If you rely on a custodial service such as BitPay and they don't let you choose the fee, then there's nothing you can do.

BitPay wallet is a custodial wallet, so you can neither set nor customize your fee rate, i am sure BitPay has their own fixed withdrawal fee that you must use when withdrawing funds, just as it works on centralized exchanges. You should try and move your funds into your self custodial wallet, because not your keys, not your coins.
BTC tx fee is not determined by the price of BTC.

Yes but it still shows a weak spot within the mechanics of the Bitcoin network. I understand that it is all supply and demand, but the problem about supply and demand under capacity restrains is that the rich can move their assets while the poor can't. This is somewhat an exaggerated version rhetorically, but it reflects what's going on in the network. People who have large transactions or don't care can just jump to the front of the queue whenever they want whereas those who want to use the network for daily causes get excluded factually. I hope that substantial development is underway to further solve and optimize capacity problems. I think it is one major reason that keeps Bitcoin from being adopted among all groups in society.

Since you can't import your recovery phrase from bitpay to electrum ( i tried but address are different). So what you can do is to wait until tx fees go down by checking mempool.space then make a transaction to your non-custodial wallet.


With the condition of current bitcoin network with the ordinals, when BTC price reach that peak again, huge possibility is BTC fees will soar in the sky as well.

Import your wallet into electrum, so that you can customize the fee and make a RBF-enabled transaction.


BitPay wallet is non-custodial and gives users full control over their fund.
BitPay doesn't allow users to set the fee rate manually and it's very bad at fee estimating.

At the time I am writing this post, around 120 sat/vbyte is enough to put your transaction less than 1 vMB from the tip of the mempool and below is how BitPay is estimating the required fee rate.

Super Economy: 149 sat/vbyte
Economy: 199 sat/vbyte
Normal: 281 sat/vbyte
Priority:  281 sat/vbyte
Urgent:  421 sat/vbyte


To import a seed phrase generated by Bitpay into electrum and get the same addresses, you must use the derivation path m/44h/0h/0h.

Thanks. Now it works, i used this derivation path m/44'/0'/0' replacing the "h" for single quote, i used electrum mobile btw ^{(coz its bed time now)}, idk what the "h" means though.

@qwertyup23 i'm sure this will help you now to send your remaining funds on bitpay wallet to avoid higher fees as well.

It is undeniable that there is a weak point in Bitcoin that is still not resolved about the sudden increase in fees.
But developers are constantly updating the mechanics of the Bitcoin network.

Broadly speaking, who can afford to pay large amounts of fees will be prioritized.
Anyone can choose to use the Bitcoin network or another cheaper network.

Now, Bitcoin still uses the POW Mechanism, and this is the most important.
Become completely decentralized.

Actually, solving the problem of scalability has been implemented using the LN network, which has a faster confirmation rate and lower cost.
Even the LN network is a network used by mass adopters, as happened in El Salvador.

But even so, the LN network is still full of pros and cons, and it is still in the development stage.

I have no option to do though but that's fine, the transaction went through and I just think of it as a donation to the miners.  ;D

Well, there goes those people and there goes us that suffer. Anyway, there might be a point of time that they'll be the one who's going to complain about Bitcoin's supremacy and then their ordi or their trades might suffer due to it. And we're actually now looking for alternatives and monitor the fees at all times.

For these transfers and withdrawals, it's always there written on how much the fees are and if it's with Binance, it's always that fix price for the withdrawals. Anyway, it's from Binance and everything seems to be okay for me and I just want to express what has happened when I paid a fee that much. This is not the first time but the other times were in altcoins that has that much fee but I was to recover it in profit though.

But we are still far from large scale adoption for the LN network. Actually we are very far from that. You may find users or groups users occasionally here and there, but the single button push setup would be needed similar to an app on the smartphone and people can instantly get going. Until now you still need a certain level of expertise to not get confused and to also set it up. And I think we would again observe a slope from the rich to the poor where the rich have more time and resources to invest into learning and running/using the LN network whereas the poor, who would like and need to benefit from micropayments, would tend to be overwhelmed by the terminology and resource requirements.

I am mentioning time as a resource because I know how careful I was when I first set up hardware wallets and stuff. It's the unknown that makes people be cautious and LN network sounds great, but it has to be as easy as placing an order on Amazon. Things should be taken care of from the first to the last step with minimum input from the user. I feel this is still a long way off.

Bitcoin Fundamental -  A purely peer-to-peer digital cash system.

Lightning is faster and cheaper but fails to be decentralized or peer-to-peer. And with the centralizing nature of the nodes you have not solved the problems Bitcoin set out to solve.

In addition, businesses who want to provide their own liquidity will have to tie up large amounts of cash or pay a third party which is no different than our current system.

The only real solution is Bitcoin without ordinals and with more efficient confirmations.

I suggest the developers get to work on that. 

Interesting- I searched the meaning of a "custodial wallet" and it stated that these third-party programs (such as BitPay) has full control and custody of our private keys. I guess they are the ones responsible for handling our transactions which somehow explains the high TX fees.


I see- this is actually insightful to know. As someone who is really new to this kind of "more secured space" practice, can you recommend me a self-custodial wallet for my privacy? I would very much want to have full control over all the assets, keys, and funds of my BTCs for future transactions.


Thank you very much for all your replies! I would very much be interested in switching to a new wallet for my security as well. Probably I would look for a wallet outside my local exchange (since this is what I have been doing since 2017) and switch to a more secured space for my safety as well.

Once again, thank you for the replies and answers!

People who complain about high Bitcoin transaction fees I suggest you to refresh your memory about Ethereum high transaction fees. There were similar complains. "Ethereum is for rich only", "expensive", "cant afford", "gonna migrate", "not going to use" and etc. That was when NFT and DEX were in trends. Do you think people have change attitude towards Ethereum? Absolutely no. Fees becomes lower, Ethereum price went up, its dominance also grew up and people still use it. Just wait and Bitcoin fees gonna go down.

Miners confirm BTC on chain tx's, if you are using a custodial wallet, you would pay a fee to the exchange or custodial service to process your tx, what they then do is combine withdrawal requests of many customers and send it in one on chain tx for miners to add it into their block and confirm it with other tx's. BitPay is a payment Gateway, and as hosseinimr93 correctly said, their wallet is self custodial, though i would not call it recommended, because there are so many better BTC wallets that you can use.
Use recommended wallets like Electrum, Sparrow or BlueWallet. For better privacy when using BTC, you must run your own node.

In order for Bitcoin to be a decentralized currency, as it was intended, the only option is to use your own node. Most people want convenience and cheap so they compromise by giving up their privacy and sovereignty.

For Bitcoin to work as intended 4 things have to happen.

1. The network needs to be decentralized.
2. Bitcoin has to have a limited supply.
3. Users have to posses and control (custody) their Bitcoin.
4. Transactions have to be peer-to-peer (no 3rd party intermediary).

---

The Fee problem!

Ordinals unnecessarily add additional data, security risk and network congestion to the Bitcoin network inhibiting it's use as a currency.

The high fees are being caused by the ordinals because buying and selling ordinals are congesting the bitcoin network causing the fees to rise.
In addition the perceived value of an ordinal changes the acceptable fee from being based on the value of a satoshi to being based on the value of an ordinal.

The only question is how do we fix this problem?

Ordinals was merely the first public demonstration of the exploit this year, there are other spammers and spam injecting methods that are abusing the relaxation of consensus rules Bitcoin core did. As foretold in February, when more and more spammers joined it got worse and worse. "Passing fad" they said, "do nothing" they said, everyone can now see the results...

Thanks a lot for correcting me, I wasn't aware of this.

This spammers have become the biggest nightmare for everyone recently and there is no hope on site for that to change any time soon since this crisis have persisted beyond what the last experience was in term of past Bitcoin network congestion and high fees, and what to expect, the Bitcoin Dev should at least come up with a lasting concesus solutions for this crisis and try to fix everything that will prevent or riggers it repeat any time along the way.
Or is is what we are going to be leaving with, by constan attacks on the network that causes alot of crisis in the Bitcoin communities?