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Title: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 10:50:11 AM I understand that the network has set a limit on transaction size, the smallest being 0.01(right?), I know that smaller than this has been sent, but not recieved, where has it gone?
Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: slush on April 06, 2011, 11:43:30 AM I understand that the network has set a limit on transaction size, the smallest being 0.01(right?), I know that smaller than this has been sent, but not recieved, where has it gone? Afaik the fee under 0.01 is still received by miner, but such small fee does not improve transaction priority. Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 12:00:46 PM I understand that the network has set a limit on transaction size, the smallest being 0.01(right?), I know that smaller than this has been sent, but not recieved, where has it gone? Afaik the fee under 0.01 is still received by miner, but such small fee does not improve transaction priority. So this means my transaction has been eaten by a miner on it's way to an address? Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Pieter Wuille on April 06, 2011, 12:09:00 PM Transactions are never eaten. Either they are accepted, or they are ignored by miners.
Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 12:12:23 PM Transactions are never eaten. Either they are accepted, or they are ignored by miners. Sorry wrong use of words. What I meant was, that if I were to send, for example 0.0001btc to an address, that would be recorded as leaving my wallet, and would be given to a miner as a transaction fee, such that nothing arrives at the address I sent to? Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: slush on April 06, 2011, 12:21:16 PM Oh sorry, I read it badly, you're talking about transactions, not about transaction fees.
Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 12:27:36 PM Oh sorry, I read it badly, you're talking about transactions, not about transaction fees. Well I'm just curious what happens if I send such a small amount if the network only handles 0.01 as the smallest? Will the transaction attempt be rejected? Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Pieter Wuille on April 06, 2011, 12:37:36 PM The protocol deals with transactions down to 0.00000001 BTC just fine. Most miners will however not accept such a transaction without fee.
Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 12:40:59 PM OK that's pretty much what I was talking about then. So my stupidly small transaction at the moment won't be accepted by most miners, which means it wont get recorded in the block chain which means it wont happen, right?
Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: slush on April 06, 2011, 01:36:16 PM OK that's pretty much what I was talking about then. So my stupidly small transaction at the moment won't be accepted by most miners, which means it wont get recorded in the block chain which means it wont happen, right? Exactly. Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Gavin Andresen on April 06, 2011, 01:40:13 PM OK that's pretty much what I was talking about then. So my stupidly small transaction at the moment won't be accepted by most miners, which means it wont get recorded in the block chain which means it wont happen, right? Yes, and right now it will sit in your wallet at 0 confirmations and get rebroadcast once in a blue moon (ok, not that long, but I'm too lazy right now to dig out the rules for when transactions are rebroadcast) until it DOES make it into a block. And you'll have to hack your copy of bitcoin to be able to send a less-than-.01 transaction without a fee; the RPC send* methods automatically add the fee, and the GUI will tell you a fee is necessary (and won't let you send unless you agree to it). Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 02:20:36 PM Nice to know.
Any way to stop it trying to broadcast, to "cancel" a transaction that's not been processed/confirmed yet? Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: jgarzik on April 06, 2011, 03:08:20 PM Any way to stop it trying to broadcast, to "cancel" a transaction that's not been processed/confirmed yet? Not at present. But I have an open proposal for people to expire TX's from the TX cache, which would permit this. Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 05:36:25 PM If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually.
Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Stephen Gornick on April 06, 2011, 08:05:57 PM If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually. That node will include the ultra-micro transaction even though it includes no fee? Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: jgarzik on April 06, 2011, 08:22:43 PM If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually. That node will include the ultra-micro transaction even though it includes no fee? Yes. Luke-jr's node is special. Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 08:53:01 PM If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually. That node will include the ultra-micro transaction even though it includes no fee?Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: theymos on April 06, 2011, 09:11:54 PM No, it's just a relay. Miners who want to accept "boycotted" transactions connect to it. People who want to send them connect to it. Theymos, at least, advertises his miner as completely fee-free. Mine's also just a relay, which is why I put it on the same wiki page as yours. Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 10:24:28 PM No, it's just a relay. Miners who want to accept "boycotted" transactions connect to it. People who want to send them connect to it. Theymos, at least, advertises his miner as completely fee-free. Mine's also just a relay, which is why I put it on the same wiki page as yours.Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: theymos on April 06, 2011, 10:40:10 PM If it's just a relay, it shouldn't be listed under "Participating miners"... I didn't list it there -- you did: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Free_transaction_relay_policy&action=historysubmit&diff=5304&oldid=5290 You also listed your relay. Title: Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? Post by: Luke-Jr on April 07, 2011, 04:09:54 AM If it's just a relay, it shouldn't be listed under "Participating miners"... I didn't list it there -- you did: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Free_transaction_relay_policy&action=historysubmit&diff=5304&oldid=5290 You also listed your relay. The element listed is my miner, not my relay. |