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If I can start my crypto journey from the scratch, all over again or I have all the money I had years ago I won't repeat same mistake, the first thing that I found very hard to strongly believe back then is...

Spending some money on Cold storage, a Trezor maybe, I use to underestimate this, even when I have heard it multiple times before, yet I choose the easy way out, without even the proper research.

If I choose to spend that money that was hard for me to spend on a hardware wallet then I would have safe myself from some losses.

It's easier to find the definition of Bitcoin online at the time but it's a bit complex to know out of the box that there is something called cold wallet or custodial wallet, it was confusing to me, so I just visit google for answer and yes Legder and Trezor are always the first, instead I went on google play store for bitcoin wallet, I mean, why spend dollars on a hardware wallet when a software wallet can do the same?

This was how I found FreeWallet, I use this to store some Bitcoin, it was easier for me because it required only email login and password, I stumbled on some that ask me to write down recovery seed but it was stressful for me, stupid me, since Free wallet sync with my email I thought that's all that matters and I lost it all, can't log into my account anymore, as if Freewallet swapped my password and log in info.

Things are different now, in fact way better, still if you are new and you want to DCA into Bitcoin, kindly consider getting a Trezor wallet at least, don't keep Bitcoin worth $2000, $10,000 on a software wallet, even if its a open source software wallet I believe this amount is too much for a software wallet, having this much means you can afford a hardware wallet.

It's not stupidity now let me tell you why.
A lot of Bitcoin users have over $10,000 worth of Bitcoin on their online wallets and not a cold wallet now this is because people like this are business persons who transact constantly with Bitcoin and putting it on a hardware wallet will make it more difficult for them to make quick transactions.

The cautions that come with using an online open source wallet like Electrum is mainly to keep your keys and seeds safe. The only problem is that when your keys are online they are more easily compromised than when they are stored offline. One has to even be careful when storing keys offline as theft and burglary can also compromise them.

Majority of people that use cold wallets for Their Bitcoins actually do it for their hodlings since they don't have to visit it frequently.

You are talking non sense.

Unless you are very experienced in cyber security,  there is no way you could have the same level of security using a software wallet and a hardware wallet.

A hardware wallet gemerates your seed in an airgapped environment , 99.9999% secure. You can even plug your device in an infect computer and your coins will be safe. Unless if you do some mistake like phising etc...

It's your own fault for using Freewallet which we know is a shady wallet, in fact I've seen several cases where they can't be accessed anymore.
I think if you only rely on email and password then this is almost the same as a third party then it could be that the freewallet stole your coins.

Actually it doesn't matter if you use a software wallet as long as you can secure the seed phrase and the computer is protected from viruses, I think there are still many people who store large amounts of coins in software wallets for their daily transactions.

I have a hardware wallet to store long-term coins, but for frequent transactions I find it easier with software wallets because it's faster there.

If you use a hardware wallet without proper research you are still at security risk, more than someone who uses a software wallet and applies full security precautions.

Even if you're using a software wallet on an airgapped device or as a hot wallet, do not get it from play store. Always use the official website and verify the signature before downloading.

I'll recommend an open source software wallet over a closed source hardware wallet.l

I think almost all of use actually made one or two mistake when starting this exciting journey some base on our gullibility and some on greediness.

Now as to the choice of wallet, there is no better way choice in terms of security other than a cold storage just like you have written but Hardware Just like you have pointed out isn’t the best because you can use a software wallet better than an hardware wallet and that is by airgapping it. Even this hardwares also causes problems sometimes like company change of policy but with an airgapped device you set it up and if done properly is more secure than even an hardware. But the reason why most people advise newbies for hardware is because most of them will mess up the process of setting up an airgapped device with a software wallet.

Another thing we down play a lot is sometimes after the choice of a wallet is made the problem lies on how we actually safe our seed phrase. Some wallets get compromised not through phishing but through physical access to the wallet key or seed phrase

Software wallet might not be perfect but over the years since I have been into crypto, I have not heard reported cases of Electrum wallet of been compromised, not because it cants but using some safety measures will protect you from losing your coins. I used a software wallets and it doesn't make me stupid because the bitcoin on the wallet is small, not large and the wallet is open source which means it's likely to have zero backdoor where shady things can happen but you downloaded a crapy software wallet and making it seems all software wallet are garbage, yours even included email and password, in 2024, that's pure scam.

Nothing is different that has never been discuss since bitcoin has ever existed or not discuss before, we just don't pay attention until we bight ourselves on the fingers and they cry victim. Not your keys, not your coins. Use a open source hardware wallet to manage your bitcoin and private keys and if you must use a software wallet for Bitcoin, use reputable ones that are open source like Bitcoin core and electrum.

I don't recommend ledger for hardware storage as they are unsafe. And with recent news of them using cloud to backup users data, it shows how untrustworthy ledger is. So just as @ Upgrade00 had said, if you don't do proper research you may end up using a hardware wallets that will get your funds compromised.

You made a mistake by using wallets that are controlled by third parties and centralized. Any wallet that stores your keys for you is considered unsafe and not trustworthy. Remember, if you don't control the keys, you don't control the coins. This should be a lesson for you.

I don't see how difficult it is to write down your seed phrase and keep it in a secure place. If you think software wallets are unsafe, you should reconsider. There are good wallets like Electrum and Blue Wallet. As long as you can keep your seed phrase offline, your funds will be safe.

As they say there is no 100% safe wallet based on some biased points but there are wallets that are more secured than others.

At your level I don't think you should be making this kind of mistake because even from the first week I got here (when I started participating in discussions) I noticed that almost everyone suggest electrum as a good wallet when ever it required wallet issues and with the time you have spent here you most have heard of such too, so I'm not expect a person of your rank to make such silly mistake. Even with a little amount like $500 we are always advised as newbies to start considered better wallets like Electrum, Sparrow, hardware and cold store wallets and from such you should have moved yours to this preferable wallets that you can be confident woth your stash.

Online wallets can still holds so big amount of Bitcoin but it's will more safer if one acquires a hardware wallet or a cold storage wallet but this two wallets are mostly used long term purposes. If you need to make a day to day transaction then you should have considered better wallets.

At the end I'm really really disappointed to see a senior colleague make such mistake. A 10k is an insane amount that you could toy with, if such mistake was made by a newbie it should be understandable because he/she lacks better wallet know at that point but for someone of such position is very disappointing. To think that you did even write than your recovery seed phrase, so sorry to day is that not insane?.

Well everyone has lessons to learn and I suppose this is yours.
 

Honestly, it is really just that the same, it is really just that there are people who cant really be able to handle themselves when it comes to those things specially if its related to security.
Im telling you that i have been that failing on purchasing some hardware wallet even if its just that cheap. Why? because im not really that holding a substantial amount of Bitcoin
and this is why buying one wont really be that relevant. Well, i do have some few though and some altcoins but i can say that there are wallet which are open source.
Yes, its software but as long you do possess its keys then you could actually be able to access that wallet compared into those custodial ones which does require
those email log in or whatsoever. It is really just that sometimes you would really be needing to make use of your common sense for you to be able to differentiate on which one is better and
which one is really that risky.

You have valuable experience, which can bring profound changes to storing your Bitcoin assets properly.

In the past, I also preferred wallet software or even storing Bitcoin in an exchange wallet, but I often read on this forum in particular and in several articles that exchange wallets and software are still not safe for us to store Bitcoin assets for a long or certain period of time because they still have the potential to be hacked. .

There are several suggestions that hardware wallets, multisignature wallets and electrum are good wallets for long-term investment purposes as a storage place for Bitcoin assets. Since then I prefer to buy a Trezor wallet.

It is true that hardware wallet is best for fund holding of large amount of bitcoin. It protects from being an easy target of phishing attacks. Even then, hardware wallets do not guarantee 100% that your funds are completely safe from hacking. The security of your fund depends a lot on you. If you are holding bitcoins on your device and not browsing safely, then no one can save you from being hacked. In case of a hardware wallet, you must be careful when connecting the hardware wallet to any device. That device should be safe. However, the latest layer to provide the best security for holding funds is to use hardware wallets, but those who maintain security and use hot wallets for holding, I will not call it stupidity. Because many people have problems importing hardware wallets, like mine, cryptocurrency is illegal in my country and for this reason I cannot buy any hardware wallets from anywhere.

if you plan to hold the coins for a long time, it will be worth storing them in cold storage. its been the suggestion since time.

but the adoption of BTC makes people just use the wallets they download from google play already. it's enough as long as they can import their wallets elsewhere if needed. every day we send transactions all the time, i guess you will just be spending fees if you use the cold wallets. right now, some of my coins are stored in the app.  i can transfer BTC faster to my local currency wallet this way.

Maybe.  I know I fooled around with very un-secure things like web wallets when I was first learning the ropes, but then there are people like the Winklevoss twins who did their due diligence around security issues before making their first bitcoin purchase.

Whatever the argument is here, OP looks like he's shilling and not sparking up a real conversation.  If I were him I'd lock the thread ASAP.

This is not true. The fact that you got scammed by freewallet doesn't make all software wallets bad. Free wallet is not a good wallet, it has many scam accusations and you can see that from the negative trust feedback left on the profile (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1177176) by forum members. Hardware are the safest no doubt about that but you can still use open source software wallets like Electrum on an airgapped device and stack as much Bitcoin as you can.

OP, your story actually shows that having the right knowledge is key to protecting your assets. You didn't lose your bitcoins because you chose one type of wallet over another, but rather due to your own lack of knowledge and laziness.  I'm not saying FreeWallet was a wise decision, but consider instead using a hardware wallet. However, even with a hardware wallet, you could still lose your holdings if you don't make a proper backup and write down your seed words as recommended.

My point is that wallet selection matters, but researching options and following protocol to secure funds matters more.  Lots of folks learn this the hard way unfortunately and  don't beat yourself up too much.  Now you know better for next time.

Those who are very serious about securing their funds must use a hardware wallet. At the beginning, crypto users don't have the proper knowledge and experience about wallets; hence, they start using a web wallet. It is very risky to store your funds in a custodial wallet. A non-custodial software wallet isn't very bad if you know how to use it properly. But a hardware wallet is always preferable. To secure both wallets, you must secure your wallet seed phrase. Spending a small amount on a hardware wallet would save you funds.

Tbf, you can setup a software wallet in an airgapped environment for hardened security e.g. electrum

But you can't do it with a custodial wallet like Freewallet. I honestly think there should be a more fitted term for wallets like freewallet considering how they work so much like exchanges when it comes to the storing bit-- it's fully custodial, has account login system of email and password, has their own kyc/aml policies which btw has been known to be scummy, look at all these scam accusations lol, see: Freewallet.org SCAM accusations - a compilation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5249178.0)

Hmm, First of all, said to hear that you were using the software wallet = hot wallet and a type of wallet that was not open source and decentralized as well on the same time you were quite satisfied with the synchronization of the wallet with Email, you really under-estimated the security. Anyway, it was the past now you are an experienced man from your this topic maybe someone can take the good piece of advise to save himself.

Note: Most of the centralized exchanges introduced their Web-3 so-called decentralized wallets I'm not fo now questioning their reliability but still these wallets are synchronized with your exchange accounts so make sure not to hold major amounts in those wallets. At the same time most of the Hot wallets these days are suggesting users who create new accounts to save/store their seed phrases in google drive as cloud backup. I will strongly recommend ignoring cloud backup because its way more dangerous.

OP generously I think this should have through you some sermons never to put full confidence in some impostor software wallet.

A friend of mine was as unreasonable as this to want to some  cheap or software wallet and store up some of his Bitcoin there just as you did
All the time higher members on the forum always do said chose your wallet carefully it is the most important of all
I think we just have to take matters like this more defensible

Hardware wallets are not the end of everything for crypto asset owners, software wallets too, if we properly store them and take care of them, I think they are safe,
There are many people who entrust their assets to software wallets, which is prohibited if you store assets on exchange which is very vulnerable to loss.

I'll probably never get a hardware wallet, because despite them being generally accepted as very safe, I can't fully trust the devs to not put any backdoors or to trust that I'm getting the genuine device and not a malicious fake. Meanwhile I'm quite happy with using a software wallet on my ancient PC that is never online and whose only purpose is to launch my software wallet, because there's no chance there are any hardware backdoors on a PC that is almost as old as Bitcoin itself.

explained well there mate , and the thread is actually nonsense at all and he does not really understand the market and the usage  as if you are using your crypto from time to time so how hard and not appropriate to use  hardware wallet as you need to pull out your coins from time to time, maybe it is applicable to store in hard wallet at night after transacting and pull out again the next day and that I think if he really wanted to show security using.

I don't think software wallets are a bad choice. They provide fairly high-quality storage, you just need to be very responsible with your bitcoins. But, of course, you need to use non-custodial wallets like Mycelium or Samourai. I have been using these wallets for a very long time and I have never had any incidents that I would regret.
The only way hardware wallets could be useful is their use in a 2-2 or more multi-signature scheme (2-3 or 3-3). Such storage is more reliable and allows you to protect yourself from backdoors in the software of both wallets.

Well, initially if you do not have an hardware wallet it is not a big issue but since you were storing your bitcoins at some centralized place that was accessible by username and password, so you were at a bigger risk because of the site was down or if they do not allow you to withdraw, there was noting you can do.
Always use wallet where you have your private key with you, so you have full control over your wallet.

Cold wallets are safer than hot wallets. With hardware wallets, you have cold wallets.

But you must by new hardware wallet from official stores and avoid to buy used hardware wallets from sub-market, with discounts because you will take risk of backdoors from sellers.

With software wallets, you can set up multisig wallets, 2FA wallets to increase security and it's hard to say what is best as it depends on your budget too. If you have like thousands of dollar or $100,000, buying a hardware wallet is not costly with you, so why not?

[LIST] Open source hardware wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0)

The security of your assets is paramount. Like you rightly posit anyone that can afford Bitcoin of about 2000$ should be able to afford a hard wallet. Then again, information is key. It may surprise you to know that not everyone knows about this hard wallet. They may have the money to buy it, but the knowledge is lacking.

There is nothing wrong with software wallets. Many people use electrum and never had any issues. But you need to use correctly and the correct way is use it with a cold storage method.

Don’t keep your crypto on your online computer, make a key offline and use it to sign transactions and that computer Never connects to the internet. That is very safe and has been used before hardware wallets were even a thing. Just need to do hours of research to do it properly.

We never learn until we experienced it.

I've never heard of that "freewallet", and I doubt I will use that since it already sounds like a just wannabe bitcoin wallet, fishy. Now, getting a hardware wallet is a good thing, but it is still has its own risk, depending on how you will store it. In short, you could use electrum or trezor and still might lose your Bitcoin because of a single mistake you'll do or it depends on how unlucky you are.

Just don't put all the eggs in just one basket.

The reality is that the majority of the people of this world, earn less than $10 per day. You cannot expect them to fork out the money for a hardware wallet, if they can hardly survive with the little money that they earn.

You can, with a little bit of research... still create a very safe paper wallet for cold storage... that will give you more or less the same level of security. (Long term storage)

@OP was mentioning freewallet, it's not a wallet, but an exchange because they didn't give the private keys to customers.

Remember, a majority doesn't always right and a minority doesn't always wrong. They're safe, until there's a dangerous malware comes up or you made a mistake.

---

Unfortunately not every people want or interested to set up their own cold storages, so hardware wallet is the quick solution to skip the hassle and secure their coins.

There's no way achieve 100% safety. It doesn't matter if you are going to use hardware or software wallet. What if you lose your hardware wallet? What if the hardware wallet breaks? I've never heard about this Freewallet software. No legit software wallet is going to ask you for an email, because emails can get hacked. The software wallets are usually asking for password only(and they ask you to remember and store  your seedphrase somewhere safe). I just don't get too obsessed with the safety of my Bitcoins. Otherwise, I will freak out. ;D
I wouldn't bother buying Trezor unless I have 10 million USD worth of BTC. And I will probably have to put the Trezor wallet in a safety deposit box and dig it somewhere in my backyard. ;D

Although I have not yet experienced much experience with Wallet. However, I learned and understood a lot through some valuable links and threads of the forum.
I think that if I am alert and responsible for my Bitcoin, software wallets are never bad and the opposite software wallets are easy for quick and frequent transactions. All I need is to keep my wallet's seed phrase secure so that I can save Bitcoin pretty good. Specifically, non-custodial  wallets such as Electrum and Samurai  provide a lot of protection.

On the other hand, free wallets are given simple benefits like email login, password, etc., but they are like custodial wallets. Here, there is a third party work that has the opportunity to be extremely risky or scandalous.
After all, a hardware wallet or cold wallet is advised to save long -term currency.

Well think of a hardware wallet like Trezor as a super-secure vault for your crypto. Unlike software wallets, it keeps your private keys offline, making it way tougher for hackers to mess with your funds. Sure software wallets might seem easy but when you're dealing with a significant amount of crypto, a hardware wallet is like a sturdy fortress for your digital assets. While you cant afford hardware wallet, theres no harm usinf software. You can upgrade anytime

"It's stupidity to have thousands in Bitcoin using a software wallet" - stupidity or not, before the advent of hardware wallets, this is how everyone stored their bitcoin. Some, perhaps in more than thousands.

These wallets perform the same function, but in completely different ways. The main advantage of hardware wallets is that it effectively eliminates the threat coming from online. Let hackers try to physically press the transaction confirmation button remotely.

Cryptocurrencies are designed in such a way that their storage can't be simple. This simplicity comes at a very high cost. Well, you already know that.

"Not your keys - not your wallet". And you are limited to only "email login and password".

Better yet, store it in several wallets. Remember to diversify.

You are saying right that holding Bitcoin in hardware wallet is not the last and best solution.  But hardware wallet is not connected through internet that's why it is difficult to hack a wallet. If you have low funds then don't buy hardware wallet..put your funds in exchange

Now, show me your own hardware wallet, you can't just bitching people to use hardware wallet and avoid to use hot wallet if you're not even use a hardware wallet. :P

To be fair he said you need to buy a hardware wallet if you have thousands dollars in Bitcoin, he's not saying poor people or small holder need to own hardware wallet.

Creating a safe paper wallet isn't easy though.

If your hardware wallet breaks or you lose it, you can always buy a new one, and using the seed phrase you can restore access to your coins. But perhaps you are right that there is no way that can 100% protect your coins, there will always be a human factor and in any case everything will depend on the user, how well he is aware of all the dangers and fraudulent schemes. You need to understand that in the case of Bitcoin, you yourself are the bank and all responsibility is on you.

I guess you are already feeling asleep when you read my post.

There is no where that I claim that it's possible to have the same level of security using software wallet just like a hardware wallet.

I only shared my old thought about how I felt about software wallet before learning that they are not all secured, I couldn't tell the difference between a closed source and a open source crypto wallet.

I only shared my old mistakes, it was a nonsense back then, it's something that any newbie or beginner can do, but today I don't keep coins in a software wallet, Electrum is a safe one, fully open source, but I choose to go hardware wallet because of the amount of Bitcoin I am holding, I feel at ease holding my bitcoin in a hardware wallet.

Well, true, because there are still pros and cons to using a hardware wallet for your assets. For example, if the hardware wallet is physical, you can still lose it; in fact, you may be more prone to losing using hardware if you are bringing it somewhere, so better store it in a safe place. As the hardware wallet is physical, it is also prone to being destroyed, stolen, or could malfunction at some point if not handled well. While using an online or software wallet, there are also pros and cons to using it, like the fact that you could forget your password and be prone to hacking. But in summary, if you can't manage your assets well, then it will be your problem. It's your responsibility to keep them safe and take layers of security and care. I use both hardware and software wallets but still haven't encountered problems such as losing assets or what because I know how to make them safe and away from anomalies.

Bitcoin business environment is very wide and we keep learning everyday as technology is keep advising, Hence when it comes hardware wallet and software wallet, one carries device and the other one is online wallet as the case may be, all is determined by individual understanding and as of me, I prefer using software wallet, I mean online wallet, because is very easy for me for a transaction and always secure my phase code and private key safe. Than using external device to safe my Bitcoin and other alt-coins.

That's right, each user uses applications or a hardware wallet at his own discretion. I agree with the thesis that for small amounts there is no point in buying any devices since this simply makes no sense and will not be profitable. For longer storage and large sums, a hardware wallet will be a good solution, since the risk of hacking will be minimal; only the probability of losing this wallet will be.

Definitely, it’s always advised that if you have big investment in bitcoins and if you are planning to hold it for long terms, then it’s better to use hardware wallet or specifically Trezor wallet. But if you have small amount to hold,then trezor can be expensive to own. In this case software wallet or electrum is sufficient. Depending on the amount you holding, you should adjust the security accordingly.

Calling Freewallet a software wallet, and then generalizing that all software wallet is not safe is definitely misleading. Instead of software wallet Freewallet is more of a web-wallet. Or I think the best way to call it is a custodial wallet. Why does this matter? because not all software is custodial wallet, there are many non-custodial software wallet and those non-custodial software wallet give you complete control of your fund and private key. Thus the misfortune experience that  happened to OP where he can't access his fund will not be happening with a non-custodial software wallet. So generalizing all software wallet and think all of them is like Freewallet is not right.

Other than that, there has been a lot of complaint about Freewallet, in this forum and on the internet in general. And I wish OP learns his lesson a other people too.

I think the problem in op's case is not that it was an online wallet but that it was a custodial wallet. Custodial wallets are riskier than non-custodial wallets because the company is the one that actually keeps the money. But I honestly don't see anything wrong with using a good non-custodial wallet like Electrum. It's convenient, it isn't linked to email, and it's fairly safe. I'm not saying that hardware wallets are bad, by no means. But there are decent digital versions as well, which can work just fine and be pretty safe to use.

At this point, Bitcoin has many legal backing up right now and recognized as important asset (or currency). So I think one can feel lot safer than Bitcoiner that used software wallets in past. There are very useful and popular software wallets right now. Minor googling would come up with suggestions. I think I used electrum continuously for many years and I never regretted. I am using hardware wallet mainly right now yet electrum is nice alternative.

Which country or laws backing up your coins when you lose it in your non custodial wallet? show it to me, I believe there's no any institutions is backing up your coins instead they will blame you for not leaving your coins in their local exchanges.

If you refer to Binance since they claimed to have SAFU, there's no guarantee they will refund back all of coins when something bad happen to their sites.

The old non custodial wallet and the current non custodial wallet have no difference, they're always safe.

It must be rough having to lose money because of the lack of knowledge and security on how you can protect your Bitcoin and just using online and hard to really justify to use that Free Wallet. Maybe it means that they have free access to your wallet  :o

Anyway, at least now you have understood why security is important and spending $40 - $150 on a hardware wallet is better than losing all of your money $2000.

Important lesson for everyone of us here.

If there is a lot of money, then the option with two wallets is the most acceptable. Keep a large amount in a hardware wallet, and the money for current expenses in a software wallet.

Free Wallet is very well known for freeing the Bitcoin out of your Wallet and in to theirs.

This is why you do research and never jump into a subject with zero knowledge as if you know where to start.  You probably do not.  Learn, accommodate yourself and then you will likely know where to start.  You are storing real value.  Why would you not care where the value is stored?  Because it is digital?  I would never trust an App on Play Store with my sensitive information either.  But what you did was as if you bought a random Wallet for your Fiat, put all the money you had in it and kept it in the back pocket of your pants.  And then be surprised if you realize your money and Wallet is gone.

Research!

Sorry for your losses, but whether to use a hardware wallet or not depends on the user itself, if we are talking about a user that took their time to understand bitcoin, knows about the ideals behind it, and they are skilled enough to secure their devices properly, then I think using a software wallet to store their holdings is OK, however if the person is a complete newbie and they do not know how to protect themselves or their coins then a hardware wallet is a good option.

I think it depends which how much you have and how frequently you will be transacting those coins!

And for a place like the BCT forum that preaches about "not your keys, not your coins" you will be surprised to know most users here do use software wallets mostly, including exchange wallets(technically a software wallet  ::)) for the purpose of saving/cutting down on transaction fees which tend to jump super high with the BRC20 tokens gaining some traction, the whole ordinals circus going on etc

Otherwise, for the purpose of being a hodler, it's advisable to store such coins on a cold wallet which you have full control of without having to worry that a third-party used these coins or lost them to a hack...unless you want ease of access and some high risk in sight then go for it with a software wallet..everything does have its own Pros and Cons.

There is many factors that leads to Bitcoin user storing  their large funds on an online wallet, even though we know the risk that comes along with that decision since you can lose some or all funds at any point in time,


One of such reasons for storing such  huge amounts on online wallets is because of the ease of accessibility and funding to get such an offline cold wallet which makes it hard for any third party to gain access to the wallet like what always.

Oh no! You just might have done this to yourself mate, it’s not entirely about you not having to get yourself a hardware wallet or saving your coins on some cold storage but, having to choose custodian wallet as against non custodian just because, it doesn’t require an email to be synchronized with or for the fact that it requires of you to write down your seed phrase.
You ought to understand that what seems so easy to use could have security flaws as well.

Haven’t been here for sometime, it would have been a wise decision to have switched from using custodian wallet to a non custodian wallet. Perhaps you got more comfortable with the wallet you’ve built your Bitcoin journey about but, should you value your coin any more, your sense of security should have kicked in. Maybe it was your part to learn the hard way and sure you did learn.

I have a trezor that I use to store some bitcoins and also rely on software wallets (even mobile ones) to store a couple hundred to thousand $ worth of bitcoins and I haven't encountered anything wrong. Perhaps it's in the way you handle your security, as all of these wallets are prone to possible hacks. With what you stated, you only saved the logins of your account. Adding 2FA and always keeping track of your account activity is your best bet in securing such types of wallet. I'm using the same mobile wallet I used since 2015 and so far, I haven't encountered hacks or anything of that sort. Your security is only as good as how you keep it, so the problem may not be in the software or hardware but in the user all along.

People lose their funds even if they store it in a hardware wallet, and that is because they have bad opsec or expose their seed phrase. Offline wallets like a hardware wallet or airgapped wallet is very safe, but the safety of your wallet also depends on you the user and how safe the environment you store your coin is.
You can set up your Electrum software wallet in a completely airgapped device that would never be connected to the internet, this gives you as much safety as a hardware wallet, and some more experienced users prefer it to a hardware wallet because it is a DIY wallet and you don't have to deal with 'shady' hardware wallet manufacturers.

So, I can call myself stupid then? Oh, ok I'm stupid now that I'm keeping thousands of dollars of Bitcoin in a software wallet.
Who's else here is a stupid one like me? Storing Bitcoins in a software wallet called "Electrum"? We are all stupid, and I guess let's accept the reality.  >:( >:(

You used Freewallet when you're starting. A wallet that has a history of negative comments, and they also have a thread here with regards to users losing their money. No big deal about that. What I don't like is that you're saying that "If you put your thousands of Bitcoins in a software wallet, you're stupid." Well, I like the last part of what you said though that we should consider having a hardware wallet but putting it on a software wallet like Electrum is almost the same.

At the end of the day, it will come back to how secure the Bitcoin holder is with their Bitcoin. I can have a hardware wallet, but I have no idea with phishing attacks, and how scammers are scamming people. On the other hand, I can have a software wallet like Electrum, and still prevent myself from getting hacked or scammed. This is where you can apply the quote "Knowledge is power."

Anyway, good advice for OP still. If you're comfortable when you're using hardware wallet then there's no problem. Same goes with software wallets.

actually don't call them stupid when you are only talking about HOLDING , there are other users
who store there coins inside their wallets because they need to use it from time to time, and what are those times?
it is in their business who transacting many times each day.

But if this is about HODL then year we must not leave our 4 digits into software .

Yes, that's right. I learned this from a bad experience I recently had, where my Electreum wallet was hacked and $750 was stolen after my computer was infected with a virus. If I had spent some of this money on buying a hardware wallet, I might have been safe now.

Therefore, for a person who is thinking about Bitcoin DCA in the long term, he should not be lazy to take security measures with great care, whether spending some money to buy a hardware wallet or securing his wallet with all the necessary protections, otherwise he will regret it later.

I don't take it as "stupidity" to look for the most urgent and accessible way to get your cryptocurrencies in check. I believe that myself included, we have a lot of people in this forum and beyond who's all for accessibility and software wallets could just do that for you. Trezor wallets and those keychain wallets as I call them are better alternatives sure, but for folks who deals with a measly couple hundred bucks every week or so, do you really have to spend $300 to $500 bucks for a more secure wallet service that you couldn't even connect to the internet?

Plus for me, you got yourself in that situation and I think it's a little unfair that you're blaming software wallets for your misfortune lol. You literally got yourself locked out by forgetting your seed phrase when most of these hot wallets would literally remind you 3 whole times to jot it down or have a way of storing them safely because they will not be responsible for retrieving your address should you forget about your money and you lock yourself out. It's a rookie mistake if I do say so myself and while I don't think you deserve to lose thousands of dollars for it, you definitely had it coming my friend.

Hot wallets are good no matter how you look at it. Just don't be belligerent with the way you use it and you should have a great time dealing and working with wallets like these.

I believe that many newbies easily make this mistake when first storing their Bitcoin or Altcoins. Usually, they will store it right on the exchange because it is convenient, secondly they will choose hot wallets like Metamask or Trust wallet. Hot wallets are not bad if you really separate the storage wallet and the transaction wallet on defi applications, otherwise you can lose money at any time with just an insecure connection. To access a cold wallet is actually a bit complicated and a bit expensive for newbies. To be honest, the cost is not too expensive compared to the amount of money they invest, but the initial barrier to access it is the way to set them up and often they get confused at this initial stage. I was like that before, I found it quite cumbersome and sometimes I couldn't find the Altcoin I wanted to store on the Ledger wallet (maybe it's not supported yet, or the token is ERC-20 but not displayed on Ledger Live).
After 3 cycles, with the strong development of hardware wallet services, we have had more many choices for hardware wallets besides Ledger and Trezor like Key Stone. Currently, I still use both Hot wallets and cold wallets, hot wallets should be divided into 2 types: 1 type only for storage and 1 type specialized for Defi.

Use an open-source wallet like Electrum if you are actively making a trade.
Use a hardware wallet if your purpose is storing long-term.

We choose what type of wallet depends on our needs, that is the thing we are supposed to do. Because if we just think about security, both are still prone to hacking but this can be avoided if we know how to securely keep our passwords. In fact, many holders are using Electrum wallet and they have no complaints of getting hacked. This means that it depends on the person and how cautious we are when visiting sites and opening links.

I wouldn't know why it's stupid.
Before I used hardware wallets, I had for example in 2020 or something, or maybe 2021, some btc worth at least 50k and I stored it in my electrum wallet. Still using electrum by the way.
I never had any issues or security concerns since I know I downloaded the right wallet, had my keys/seed stored save and even if somebody would steal my device he would never guess my password or anything.

Well, call me stupid but I have always been happy with my storage.

Ok, I read a comment claiming that people use software wallet for easy and faster transaction, I will like to ask which hardware wallet isn't this easy to use? Because my hardware wallet only takes me six second to scan a qrcode instead of copying and pasting the address and sent it right away, it's as easier as when using a software wallet too, stop the cap.

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It's really not stupid to hold heavy Bitcoin in a software wallet if you know what you are doing, it's just that you don't want to use such wallet to play around, now that brc20 is here, there are many fake of these project in crypto space now.

Now some bitcoin software wallet are now accepting brc20 tokens, if you like claiming every shit online you can get your wallet compromised, the security of your bitcoin wallet is in your hands, but bitcoin wallets, are safer than multi wallets for altcoins.

Just get the right wallets, and keep your recovery seed safe, and private.

Im using ownr for small hot holdings and ledger for the rest. That give more more peace in mind about my currency

The convenience that comes with using software storage methods cannot be compared to that of using hardware. Hardware is usually used by people who want to hold Bitcoin for a long time and it also has its own risk, although not as much as software.

So, it's not stupidity to store on software. Imagine telling a BTC trader to use hardware to store his Bitcoin. In as much, I do understand what you're trying to say and it's knowledge, but mind you everyone has personal reasons and influence, so not everyone would buy the idea. Don't get me wrong hardware's are great, but more convenient when one decides to start holding instead of trading.

The human brain works in very interesting ways because oftentimes we refuse to realize the type of mistakes we are making with the hope to save a few dollars. And I do that mistake as well, but luckily not with cryptos. I understand that it could be annoying spending $70-100 for a hardware wallet but even if you own just $500 of cryptos than it's totally worth it, don't be cheap about security, it would be like buying a Ferrari while trying to save money on the tires...

Your experience holds immense value and could truly transform how we safeguard our Bitcoin holdings. Like many, I used to trust wallet software or exchange wallets. But diving into forums and articles opened my eyes to the risks—they're just not secure enough for the long haul. Instead, recommendations pointed towards hardware wallets, multisignature setups, and Electrum for safer, long-term investments. That's why I've made the switch to a Trezor wallet—it just feels like the right move.But anyway.....

You may already know now that Freewallet is a complete scammer! There are hundreds of scam accusations against this wallet service provider. I have never seen a wallet ask for KYC information but this fuckers does. Even if you had your seed phrases, I don't think you would have been able to get your money back. I never used their service and I don't know how their service works. All I know about them is, they are just a bunch of scammers!

I do not have thousands of Bitcoin but I have some Bitcoin. However I am afraid that I am unable to buy a hardware wallet due to some limitations. Bitcoin is not allowed here and no companies ship hardware wallets to my country. I wish, I could have buy one.

I think a hardware wallet are a multi purpose item, because you can use it regularly and you can also store coins on there for longer periods.

I just find that the firmware upgrades on some hardware wallets are over complicated and might be a daunting task for less technical people.  ::)

Just imagine your granny of 87, having to upgrade the firmware on her Ledger Nano wallet?

well most of us have hardware for safe keeping as we believe in long term than just to use in daily basis so we need to have time for waiting.

Maybe there are case to case basis because when you are in trading there is no way that you need to use Hardware wallets because you need to take them in and out to be used.

Same here, since I started here with crypto investment, I've been using software wallets because hardware wallets are quite expensive, so far I haven't encountered any issues, we just need to choose a legit and safe software wallet especially since there are so many scammers around, inside or outside the internet. It's not stupid to use a software wallet, and I don't see anything stupid about using it, unless you use a not reliable and not trusted wallet or you don't research what is safe to use.

Mate you can't think everyone usage of bitcoin are thesame I know friends that make transactions in bitcoin daily and hence they have to keep their funds in software wallet, you can't expect them to be moving bitcoin every time they want to run a transactions, so it's not stupidity, it's actually taking advantage to reduce the fees you would spend moving your asset All the time from cold wallet to soft wallet. But for holders its not cool to keep your asset in soft wallet for security reasons.


I totally agree with you we chose wallet based on usage, someone who trades often would prefer a wallet like electrum while a holder would think of buying a hardware wallet, but what matters most is our security measures and precautions, anyone can get scammed irrespective of the wallet he uses what matters is how security conscious you are.

you may choose a legit software wallet and use it correctly. but if the underlying machine is compromised (OS/malware etc) your software wallet is pretty much toast.

a hardware wallet can run on a compromised computer safely.. thats one of their main selling points.

so best practice is generally the main stash should be cold storage (airgapped etc) or hardware wallet and only keep your spending money that youre ok with losing for software wallet

This is not the safest way to store bitcoins, it’s good that you are lucky, apparently, besides everything else, you are also a careful user who does not download any dubious programs to your computer.

You also know that there are cases on the forum when users downloaded programs with viruses and scammers gained access to their accounts on the forum, took or tried to take out a loan, and also lost all their funds from Electrum.

There was also a case when all the bitcoins that the project sent for a campaign on the forum were stolen from one bounty manager, so cases of theft of bitcoins from Electrum are not uncommon, so although this is a good wallet and I also use it, but I wouldn't store any large amounts there.

When you store your bitcoins and crypto in a wallet that you need to access via login and password, then it means that you store your coins on the centralized location and you do not have access to the private key or seed phrases. This is the most wrong way of storing the coins. If you do not have the hardware wallet, you should store your crypto in software wallet where you have access to private keys. If that centralized location refuses to withdraw your money or the site shutdown, you will lose your coins.



Also a cold stage can also serve the same purpose. For example, you can make a cold storage device (that has no access to the Internet) and save your coins on that device. This provides the same level of security as the hardware wallet. However, it is best that you save your coins in the hardware wallet.

An event shouldn't happen twice before a person learns. Avoid downloading software that do not have license. Also make use of private wallets instead of wallets that are public in some kind of way. This is the best practice to store your bitcoin.

I am having a hard time understanding what your point is, what license are you talking about, you should rather say that people should download their wallets only from the original source. I also don't know what you mean by private and public wallets, the recommended wallet to use is one that is self custodial, open source and well reviewed, like Electrum and BlueWallet for BTC.

Actually, software wallets can be quite safe and reliable. I'm not even talking about sterile, airgapped PCs without NICs but even a regular PC with a working NIC can offer decent security for your coins. You have to be very careful, that's right. But even a hardware wallet is not 100% safe. You can buy a fake hardware wallet with a backdoor, there were several data leaks from hardware wallet manufacturers etc.

It is pure stupidity except your net-worth is in millions and those thousands are what you spend or what is left off.

I have been in situations where my software wallet got compromised and I lost everything and I concluded that the idea of cold storage is the best. Imaging saving your life's earning in a software wallet and someone compromises it and then it gets you back to starting your life afresh, that is time wasted and could have been avoided by having just a software wallet

Do you no that the higher amount of security for a wallet is not highly base on the wallet you use but its base on you the user of the wallet how protective you are to the wallet, first you need a wallet which can give you phrase to the wallet (ownership access) then you need to protect that wallet with the maximum security making sure that the phrase is not exposed to outsiders who can steal your crypto.

Even with hardware wallet, if connected to a device which is infected the wallet can still be compromised without you noticing, unless for multi signature wallet which needs more than 1 device to be able to get a transaction through.

    I don't agree with what you are saying, because as long as you are sure that the precautions you are taking when using software wallets are correct, that is fine. Because I know someone who has been here for several years in the crypto space, he is able to store a huge amount in a software wallet like Ethereum, and he is the only one who knows the seed phrase, even though his last wife does not know it.

As long as the electrum version is always updated, it will not be a problem. So, if you're careless, your wallet with funds can really be in trouble; it's that simple to understand.

Actually, the two types of wallets are good but depending on we choose depending on the comfort of our use. Because each type of wallet has advantages and disadvantages, so be sure to choose the right Bitcoin wallet for your needs. In essence, software wallet and hardware wallet if we are not smart in maintaining data correctly will also risk that we will lose the assets we have, because the security of Bitcoin assets is basically in us in maintenance correctly and correctly.

Storing bitcoin safely and effectively will greatly protect the assets that you have both on hardware and software wallets. Make sure you choose the right wallet and safe. Then you also have to save a private key and not eliminate it.

If anyone is comfortable storing hundreds of thousands worth of Bitcoin in a software wallet like Electrum then it's their problem, I can't ever imagine having this much money on such app wallet, I won't be able to sleep at night.

Some people have stored hundreds of Bitcoin in a crypto mobile wallet for years and nothing bad happened to their assets but that doesn't mean yours will be safe, I get what this OP is saying, it's just some precaution advice.

Electrum wallet is not a airgapped BTC wallet, running it on your smartphones means it's always online, every time, and I have read so many times why this is not a good idea, I mean offline wallet are supposed to be the best.

OP is talking in the past tense so of course they believe that hardware wallets are more secure than software wallets now :)

Anyway, sorry for your loss OP, but this is how you learn. Never ever store your bitcoins on a custodial platform. Custodial = does not give you a seed phrase.

It is just not worth it, I mean there are so many people lined up who are waiting to steal your money, that you can't get back since it is decentralized.

I quite don't get the idea of OP using past tense words in his sentence being related to his point of view that hardware wallets are more secured. My analogy with this is , online platforms are convenient to access and same thing goes with hackers. Everything in online especially wallets or accounts are prone to be hacked, if bad people will be given a chance. Including devices as threat, malwares and phising sites are troubles you wouldn't wish to encounter. What's best is to maximize the security of wallets as much as possible. At least hardware wallets will be only prone of owner's negligence which could be easy to change for the better. If you value the amount then there's no need to save a few amount; better to save what you are storing. The more you want to save a few money, the more you are exposing yourself with loss, as evident with mentioned instances.

It’s 2024 & after so many very public exchange failures, collapses & hacks, people are still trusting centralised third parties with their stash. Some people are just unwilling or unable to educate themselves on the tech skills required to self custody. It isn’t that hard & it’s so much better than relying on an exchange or software wallet. Please buy a hardware wallet.

everyone has a reason to store their bitcoins in a software or hardware wallet. but for people who store thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins in software wallets, that's not stupid either, as long as they have knowledge about the security of the devices they use. for example, if they use a device such as linux or mac that is only used for transactions, it might be very safe for them to use in the long term.

so it depends on how knowledgeable a person is about the security of bitcoin wallets, not on the type of bitcoin wallet they use.

It's not about been stupid or knowing the security of wallet in details. It's risky to keep thousands worths of Bitcoin in a wallet because you can be a key target even when you are extra careful. Software wallets either on phone or pc is always vulnerable and dangerous because you use it for internet daily and anything connect to the internet is hackable, you can download a malware that will run a bug that will drain your wallet with just a single click without realizing it.

However, hardware wallet is not connected to the internet and with that, your private keys and seed phrase don't get to the internet, you are absolutely safe using it but you have to make sure that it's well protected and safeguard from people close to you else people can easily get access to your wallet.

I've been doing it for years, almost 10 by now - mostly using a software wallet. First Core, then Electrum. I also have a hardware wallet but I don't keep all of my bitcoin there. Don't worry, I sleep like a baby.
I have a few wallets including a mobile Blue Wallet on my phone and never had a single satoshi stolen from me.

I feel like some of you are panicking. Software wallets are as safe as the computer they're on. If many people can access your device, you use a public network like the ones in libraries, dorms and similar places, you're putting the wallet at risk. In OP's case the problem wasn't lack of a hardware wallet but the fact that he used a scam online wallet. Online wallets are very risky and I've never used these to store money.