Bitcoin Forum

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

 From the look of things right now, Bitcoin is progressing when it comes to fees. During late periods of last year to very early this year, Bitcoin fees were drastically high due to conjestions caused by ordinals.
However as I type, Bitcoin fees have come so low to an average of about 24sat/byte for normal fees which would arrive between periods of an hour to 30 minutes.


If the network is conjested, fees on centralized exchanges will also increase. So theoretically they still can't control transaction rates since miners are the ones who confirm transactions not exchanges although some large exchanges have mining pools for faster confirmation.

I'm a bit confused about what you trying to say but Bitcoin will never become centralized because Satoshi made Bitcoin for decentralization.

If the fees are rising it's just temporary there is something going on that is why you see transaction fees rise just like today because the price touched above $50k that is why people right now panic to move their BTC to the exchange before it drops and make a profit.

Fees have dropped earlier today to the lowest range we have seen in the recent months and the mempool is not as clogged as it was. No current situation suggests that rising fees would make it impossible for regular people to transact, this would be a problem for several decades down the line when mining rewards is majorly transaction fees and miners need to charge an amount that would cover their cost of mining.

There are several solutions that exists to fix the fees problem and more would be implemented down the road. One of them is off chain transations, this should become more popular and attract more users, taking much of the load off on-chain transactions.

I guess bitcoin developers will not let it get to that point. Also there are layer 2 solutions like lightning network and liquid network. Bitcoin network to become centralized has nothing to do with the transaction fee. You can hold small amount using lightning network or liquid network and hold huge amount on the blockchain.

Mining is the decentralization mechanism. My implication is that, if only big players have sufficient capital to bribe miners with transaction fees, then the peer-to-peer aspect of the network could be effectively undermined (no pun intended). I recall this same thing happened in 2017, so it appears to be a recurring issue.

What about people with only small portions of bitcoin, that end up being stuck, because transaction fee exceeds total value?


LN is a hub-and-spoke design which inherently promotes centralization, just like a major airport. As channels grow increasingly popular, they begin to look more and more like a bank, at least in my eyes.


"Some large exchanges have mining pools for faster confirmation"

This is exactly the type of centralization I'm voicing concern about. Isn't there an obvious conflict of interest if CEX's use in-house mining pools to add their own txs to the blockchain? What happens when these exchanges form a consortia? This work-around doesn't seem to lead us down a sustainable path...

Well, there are some people here who had this issue before who are stuck on sending BTC to other wallets or exchanges due to the fee exceeding the total amount of BTC.
What they can only do is wait for the network to become less congested and fees drop suggested by mempool.space there is nothing we can do about this issue.

However, if you still insist on making a transaction while the network is congested you can try to make a transaction with low fees and accelerate it using Viabtc accelerator just make sure that transaction doesn't exceed the 0.5 KB size so that you can submit it to the free accelerator.

to use LN means abandon using the bitcoin network regularly..
most LN users do not care for bitcoin when they are playing on the other network.. because they are not using it daily so dont monitor it..
so LN actually causes more centralisation due to abandonment of using bitcoin

most LN users are not carrying their laptops/desktops around with them when buying small things. they use phone apps. thus not even full nodes.
most LN users use phone apps. thus using central hub inbound balance/rented channels, thus not even sole control/ownership of funds

---

anyone else think that the next node release should measure fees in bumps of 1sat per 10byte(100sat/kb)
 instead of 5sat per byte(5000sat/kb) bump default, especially when entering the year of the next halving cycle/ATH year

where by if a 226byte tx was
266sat(1sat/byte) then 1356sat (6sat/byte) then 2486sat(11sat/byte) defaults
but instead were starting from
23sat(1sat/10byte) 46sat(2sat/10byte) 68sat(3sat/10byte)

I bet you it won't work. Mining requires hash rate to confirm transactions and create new Bitcoins. This hash rate is usually higher depending on the computation power of the computer you are using. Because the faster the miner's node setup can find hashes that that fit in the block, the faster you can proceed to computing the next hash problem. Now of course setting this up will require large sum of money especially if you are to run a pool .

Aside that if centralized exchanges should try to centralize Bitcoin, the will end of losing because the will be doing us the the people transacting good by confirming transactions with low fees for us and also be losing Because of the electrical cost of running the pool.

I'd argue that the blockchain is not exactly congested, but rather, it is constrained. We should be able to do better than to tell people not to use Bitcoin when others are using Bitcoin too, moving money is the whole point of the network.

I have used ViaBTC in the past, but honestly, it's just a work-around...the core issue remains unaddressed.


I know how Bitcoin works, thank you. Selfish mining already grants a disproportionate advantage to miners controlling just 25% of hash-rate (they can make up to 1/3 of blocks). Imagine what happens when the exchanges and miners band together; you've just taken the scenic route to recreating the problems with our existing banking system.

your under the premiss that miners are poor unless they have fee's. for decades fee's were not the salary, fee's were the bonus
we are a long time away from the flippening where fee's become the salary and rewards are a minor bonus

miners are not in poverty without fee's. they were not poor when the reward was
a. 6.25btc at $15k($93,750), december 2022
nor poor at
b. 6.25 at $50k($312,500), today

the hashrate at (a) was ~250exa
the hashrate at (b) is ~600exa

the hashrate has 2.4x between (a)->(b) meaning the $15k rate feels like $36k rate today.. yet prices are $50k and thats before even considering fees

at the halving even $64k at this hashrate will be the same as the feeling of the 2022 low..
.. and yes the spot market is what helps the miners. we are a long time away from needing fee's to supplement miners. they are not poor and the spot market is not broke

BTC is already centralised to a certain extent though it's still largely decentralised thankfully. Ordinals and bullish behaviour are forcing fees to move upwards again and again which is something that everyone have already gotten used to at this point.

The silver lining here is that fees drastically drop in a short period of time based on what I observed.

What if we wanted to give 100sat to every one of the 5.3B networked people on the planet and jumpstart a new global economy? I guess we couldn't, at least not with Bitcoin as is... that should be the goal tho

It's very simple, there will be a massive outflow of capital into other cryptocurrencies and bitcoin will cease to be No. 1.

no single currency in the world operates for all working age adults
USD only works for 250m
Yuan only works for 1b
pound only works for 40m

bitcoin is not supposed to replace all the world fiats, for one currency
bitcoin is not suppose to be for people to use bitcoin for every real life purchase..
its suppose to be a secondary choice to offer an option alongside fiat.
but yes it should be more open compared to the current "wait/be patient/use just once a year to avoid congestion" proposition people are trying to push

Indeed, no single currency unites us atm. But crypto could. Thanks for coming around mate.

As many of the members above have said, if Bitcoin fees go up and it happens for a very long time, the first thing the devs do is find a way out so that Bitcoin fees go down again. The ups and downs in Bitcoin fees won't happen forever, maybe only for a few days. Improvisations will continue to be made, updates will also continue to be made to improve the system in the Bitcoin Blockchain so that it is able to process more transactions and at low costs.

bitcoin devs knew of the exploit that would allow junk into the blockchain in 2016 when they were designing changes to bitcoin.. they ignored the problem
bitcoin devs knew of the exploit when it started to be abused in 2023(ordinals).. they ignored the problem

bitcoin since 2016 has multiplied from $1k to $70k yet they didnt put in fee bump, dust, fee rate changes to effectivelly allow fee's to even be 10x less to stay within reasonable range
instead they changed fee bump from 1sat/byte(1000sat/kb) to 5sat/byte (5000sat/kb) in 2017
they should have in those years changed to 100sat/kb(1sat/10byte)

so if you are waiting for devs to do something. you have already been waiting 7 years.. so.. when?

ill ask again
anyone else think that the next node release should measure fees in bumps of 1sat per 10byte(100sat/kb)
 instead of 5sat per byte(5000sat/kb) bump default, especially when entering the year of the next halving cycle/ATH year

where by if a 226byte tx was
266sat(1sat/byte) then 1356sat (6sat/byte) then 2486sat(11sat/byte) defaults
but instead were starting from
23sat(1sat/10byte) 46sat(2sat/10byte) 68sat(3sat/10byte)

This won't centralize the network. It will create some level of security for the network if we look at the bright side of it, not the high transaction fee.
Having said that, there are alternative means already created to fend off huge transaction fees which LN is one of them, and it will be nice to adopt the use of it.

Sure, it sounds reasonable to me for base fee to adjust in order to reflect increasingly valuable satoshis.
In fact, your account makes me think... what if devs conspire to keep base fee high in exchange for kickbacks from miners?

they dont get kickback from miners, because if they could they would have in last 15 years..
their kickback is make bitcoin expensive and annoying to promote the sandbox unfinished subnetworks that facilitate middlemen fee's for routed payments between institutions that sponsor them
(look into river financial hosting alot of the LN liquidity and sponsoring core devs as one of many examples, DCG previously)

The main problem when sending bitcoin with difference kinds of wallet are excessive Bitcoin fees, for small transaction will get difficult choose they have paid over $3 to $5 and some time could be large amount of fees have to sent. I think sending small fund of bitcoin as transaction is not friendly for user want to sent little amount of bitcoin but worth for huge amount of bitcoin.
Get possibilities increasing large fees bitcoin transaction in the future when bitcoin raise to higher price make small fund transaction not really worth when adopting bitcoin as payment transaction. Get exceptional if have or support with lightening network without take any fees transaction yet and likely is most worth way for sending bitcoin.

I agree, I'm sorry that the bitcoin experience hasn't improved


this sounds like it could be an equally big issue of developer incentive misalignment

imagine any auction
where bidding starts at $1
in any scenario of competitive bids. imagine if the auction house incremented the next bid by $5, with 10 SEPARATE bids the price hits $51
now imagine if the auction house incremented the next bid by $0.10 with 10 separate bids the price hits $2

lowering the increment bidders have to fight over, allows more opportunity of priority without the fee going 50x

..
most wallets are based on core underlying code so follow their defaults. so first port-of-call is to get core to sort themselves out, then the rest will follow

High transaction fees means bigger revenue and profits for the miners, so more miners will start mining BTC and the hashrate will get adjusted to another level. On the other hand, ridiculously high transaction fees will scare away many BTC investors and traders, therefore the demand for BTC will drop, which means that the BTC price will also drop. This will eventually lead to lower transaction fees. The market always finds ways to regulate itself. The level of decentralization of the BTC network doesn't depend of the number of users and companies, that are sending and receiving BTC. It depends on the number of active miners and nodes. However, I might be wrong about this, because I'm not a blockchain expert. ;D

Your questions are quite contradictory but however, it's not only large institutions that can afford the use of Bitcoin Blockchain due to high transactions fees because there are also individuals that have high amount of Bitcoins and wouldn't care about the transaction fees inasmuch as the system is decentralized.

Bitcoin was invented to be a decentralized currency so I don't see any reason or whatsoever that would tend to change the decentralized nature of Bitcoin regardless of high transactions fees or congestion in the mempool and moreover, recently we can vividly see that there have been a reduction in the congestion and transactions fees also reduced as well so hopefully with time everything is gonna normalize.

It is obvious that these congestion in mempool and high transactions fees have been a reoccurrence in the crypto industry and afterwards returns back to normalcy so it shouldn't cause a panic in anyway as the system would be restored by it's developers .

BTC is not in any way centralized. It has never been centralized and it's not centralized now. The BTC itself is yours, you own it, you can sell it when you want, or hold it forever.
The problem is using centralized means to deal with BTC. Like centralized exchanges and so on.
Drinking a new fine in an old glass doesn't make the wine an old win. So centralized institutions using BTC don't make BTC centralized

The dollar worth of fees is as low as just above a dollar currently, hopefully it gets even lower.

The fact that events in the economy affect Bitcoin doesn't make it centralized. The players of Bitcoin all live in an economy and if the events of the economy affect these players, then it might affect Bitcoin.

Nobody knows for sure. But i certainly hope Bitcoin community would also accept Bitcoin sidechain and increasing block size (following hardware/internet growth) as additional options to prevent that from happening.


It won't centralize the network, assuming it's not expensive to run full node and no single group have majority of hashrate.

I suggest that crypto companies introduce Bitcoin Layer 2 solution projects. Bitcoin transaction fees are very high, making transactions in Bitcoin annoying. Introducing Layer 2 solution projects could reduce fees by 10 times, similar to what Arbitrum, Optimism, and other Layer 2 projects have done. Exchanges also impose heavy fees on withdrawals, so reducing these excessive fees would be beneficial.

Even if Bitcoin fees go to $100 per transaction, I don't think that they'll be the only ones to afford to pay the fees. However, I do not wish to reach that point seeing it happen with Bitcoin because I did experience and saw that with ERC20 transactions.

It was a terrible experience and that's why if it happens for Bitcoin which it actually did last year, we just have to wait to let the network and its fee calm down.


The network is already set and it won't change just because only those who can avail to pay the high fees don't make it centralized.

I don't think that's going to happen. The fees aren't progressing, they're just occasionally spiking. As was noted by others, the fees are currently very reasonable, for example, with less than $2 for a priority transaction. Also, I don't think that adoption of Bitcoin by large institutions will make the fee situation worse. Large institutions don't tend to make tons of small transactions, I believe, and they tend to have their own centralized (so, not on-chain) platforms for people who want to interact with Bitcoin or any other asset. So their impact shouldn't be significant, and regular people will be useful to use Bitcoin directly.

It's February 26, 2024, and Bitcoin fees are high again. Didn't satoshi say we should always allow a certain number of free transactions? What good is a cryptocurrency for the un-banked that costs more than a bank to use?

Why is the present status quo acceptable?

Due to fees or whatever reason, Bitcoin won't become centralised because it was designed in a decentralised way. A major part of Bitcoin would be handed over to centralised organisations if the fees increased significantly and the general public couldn't afford the transaction fees. But I do not expect this situation to occur; there will undoubtedly be a solution. We saw a few days ago that transaction fees were very high. But it was affordable, at least. Developers will find a solution to transaction fees. 

Bitcoin broke $53K, $54K, $55K, $56K and $57K today and the fees are 20 sats/byte. Which is very cheap. Looking at Ethereum the fees are 45 Gwei or so which is about $3 for a simple ETH transfer, so this isn't a concern really.

Most of us pretty much only do large transfers on these networks and use L2 for everything else. I have been doing this since 2017 pretty much and got used to it. Bitcoin network is not designed to be used to buy a cup of coffee and neither is Ethereum. This is where all the L2 networks like Lignting, Liquid, Arbitrium, Polygon, ZkSync, etc come into play.

Those networks are very cheap and transactions are very fast.

This is one of the advantage that make me to like  Bitcoin team, they feel the pain or worry about their investors to consider the gas fee before it makes their investors to start thinking another alternative that will make the team to lose investors. I think, the current gas fees that occur few days ago is not too high compared to other coin like Ethereum gas fee 45 where high fees is charged for every transaction their investors make, but Bitcoin gas fees is very low and it will make many companies to use this new gas fees to embrace Bitcoin again. Based on what happened to the gas fee of Bitcoin, I will definitely increase my capital when another bearish market appear, so that I will achieve more income than what I achieved few hours ago in the market.

It's natural that currently we see many people and investors increasingly enthusiastic about the prospects of bitcoin, especially as the price is a little closer to touching ATH again. Now. If this is the case, the transaction fee will automatically increase and it will subside by itself and BTC belongs to everyone, so it's not just those with strong hands who can afford it, we, ordinary people can also invest with BTC, it's just that the amount of ownership is different and this is definitely a way for investors to expand their investment reach beyond stocks and bonds.

Mining isn't charity activity, so don't expect miner or pool would do that. Besides, it's just suggestion and was never enforced by Bitcoin protocol.


IMO if those people are unbanked not due to lack of money, Bitcoin still offer some advantage.


Personally i don't accept it, but Bitcoin community is on conservative side.

A centralized exchange must be used for trading to avoid transaction fees. But when one wants to hold bitcoin he must buy bitcoin and hold it in a non-custodial wallet because we all know a saying that not your key not your bitcoin. If you use a decentralized wallet, you will be in full control of your Bitcoins. In this case paying some fee for the safety of your bitcoins will not be a big deal.

Today the price of Bitcoin has increased, but the amount of Bitcoin fees has not increased with it. It is often seen that as the price of Bitcoin increases, so does the amount of Bitcoin fees. According to mempool.space today, Bitcoin fees amount

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/02/27/Y0GOw.jpeg
https://mempool.space/

You must use a non-custodial wallet to avoid transaction fees and keep your assets safe. If you are using a custodial wallet then there is a fixed fee that you have to pay for any token transaction that they charge and then make the transaction.

If you use a non-custodial wallet instead of a custodial wallet, then you can trade any token you want with a fee.

Bitcoin system is organized and quite easy to predict, it has its seasons, bull run, bear run and halving, also a time when mempool is congested, it had congestions towards the last quarter of last year, and people who are knowledgeable about how Bitcoin seasons works were not panicked, they knew that it happens. To the layman's understanding, when there are too many transactions, the mempool will be congested and transaction fees will be high, when eventually the mempool dicongests, transaction fees will come back to normal, simple economics.

Unless hopefully the Bitcoin developers does something to address the issue, we're still stuck with the system, if a holder can't pay the high fees, when there's congestion, then let him use alternative means that have been mentioned on this thread.

I don’t find anyone to really do anything for free especially, when it’s going to cost them something to do it. Miners gets to procure these devices to enable them mine and get the rewards that follow, they spend on energy too used by these devices that have pushed environmentalist to take interest on energy used by mining and so, having any hope that these shouldn’t be subsidized from fees is a mistaken idea.

While the model of high fees would not be acceptable, it tends to persist only for a period of time and that in itself is acceptable. In a way, it discourages users from making more and more transactions which would in turn result in scarcity and that is good for the system I think.

 Frankly speaking the fee is high from my end because I made a transfer of a unit of bitcoin this and the amount I was charged was amazing. I was charged $15.18 and that is a vet huge amount of money . So I can't say the transaction fee is good or okay. And most people are saying that the transaction fee is low because of others are saying it and they on their own have not done any transactions but following other people talk to follow up. And from what I experienced this week, transaction fee is still high. Assuming I want pay something I bought in a shop with that amount, and I would pay that amount to buy the goods? That is too much.  The developers of bitcoin should still work on the transaction fee and reduce it very well so that transaction will be very interesting.

If you don't accept that, the solution for you is to use CEX, don't be too demanding that this market serves the best for you. I understand the feeling that we all want favorable things, but we should understand that it is like a road that has been built if you don't walk on it then let someone else go, the competition in the space is quite different. And also the fact that it's just like a fighting game of gambling, if you don't get money from someone else, you lose money.

Should centralization/decentralization go hand in hand or only one pole exists and problems arise, if one hypothesizes a world where excessive decentralization leads to loss of control, the emergence of of centralization as the solution that bitcoin exists in this world context.

It isn't centralized when bitcoin transaction fees become high. It is because of the congestion that makes transaction fees very high to some people. If you're not using non-custodial wallet then you may mot be able to set the fees manually and that's why it is not cheap to some people and if the wallet you use let's you manually set the transaction fee then you won't have to pay higher transaction fee. As of now, the transaction fee have decreased which around 20+ sats/byte compared to 5 weeks ago where the transaction fee is around 50 sats/byte up to 100+ sats/byte which you can see on block 826998.

In the areas of fees, it’s all depends on the high volume of transaction during that time. Yes, from the last year and this year transaction fees has been so high, because a lot of transaction is going on, and the only way your transaction can confirm easily or reach the complete block Confirmation is when the transaction fee is high, that is why wallet like  blockchain is always easy for you to decide how fast your transaction goes because you have to be the one to set the fees you want. so actually the level of fees this year will continue to be high, and it may not really reduce because of the bull run. So complaining about fees this time may not really change anything because I can see that it is high in different platform so we just have to manage it and it is good to use the Blockchain so you can be able to set your fees as you want it to enable your transaction fast or slow or depend on the individuals. I have been using Blockchain for a while now because it is usually good for me because of this fees of a thing transaction that does not require me to use as fast as I want or I may not need it. At that point I can decide to set the lower fee which it will take time before it gets to the destination of the nest wallet, it usually takes time to complete the block confirmation because of the fees. Complaining about fees at this point may not really matter.

Mate, if those people that know how the system operates kno that when their is congestion of unconfirmed transaction and still incoming ones, how will those that is unaware do in this situation, for me I will say that this problem needs to solved once and for all, though I have been supporter of longterm hodling but we can't still dispute the fact that there known hodlers who receive payment through bitcoin how will this know of people survive the high fee stuff, I think some thing needed to be done, this high fee of a thing can cause discouragement for potential investors.

I believe that people have different wallets, the one for hodling and the one for withdrawal purposes, what if the wallet is not an exchange wallet what will such person be doing during the high fee season, let their be upgrade to accommodate whichever number of transactions coming in other to continue the smooth process of transactions. 

Yeah, usually there's string when someone do something for free. For example, ViaBTC offer free acceleration service in order to promote their pool and paid acceleration service.


I disagree, it'd also discourage people from using Bitcoin as currency or payment method.

Fees are not high at all in the past weeks.
You can't look at the btc price and say fees are high, it's still the same sat/b it was before, only 1 sat is worth more now.

We can consider ourselves happy we don't see fees like 100-200sat/b at the moment.
Last time the price went through the roof the transaction fees skyrocketed to like 30$ per transaction.

These days we have at the moment are so easy peasy, I don't even know why somebody brought this thread back out.

People will have different views on this.

If they see it in satoshi spent for transaction fee, they will feel more comfortable.
If they see it in $ value of their satoshi spent for transaction fee, they will feel uncomfortable because they are spending more $ than in the past when Bitcoin price was cheaper than in 2024.

I believe we can not find an agreement for this as it depends on personal view.

Well, it depends on how high is the fee. $1 for the transaction is nothing. And even $10 is not much if you're transferring thousands of USD in Bitcoin.

If only few people are making transactions then obviously the fee will get lowered after sometime unless someone really want to burn their money to keep the retail users from using the Bitcoin network. As far as I know the clogs won't last for very long but the one that lasting long is due to the ordinals spam but fees went considerably to low range from where it was but still 1sat/byte tx seems far away considering the bull already kicked in so obviously there will be more play on the network.

Take note that tx fees should be valued in sats/vbyte and not in dollars or any other currency. We used to make tx's with as low as 1 sat/vbyte before, right now fees are not as bad as it was during the ordinals craze, but not as low as it was when tx fees were very cheap. It is worth mentioning that people make a lot of micro payments using BTC, and if what they have to pay in fees is equivalent to $1 or above, then it may be considered expensive. However, like you said, if you are sending a large amount or making cross-border payments, then that amount in fees is good.

Yes the problem here is we are happy when the value of Bitcoin increases and we should be aware that the fee is calculated in SAT as you have clarified and it's not the increase in fee structure but rather the value of SAT gets increased, since this is not based on USD we feel pinch in our pocket when making transactions. This is something which we cannot resolve and the two options left to use would be either don't make micro payments through BTC when you feel the price is high as we compare it with our currency, second use any other altcoin for micro payments as I use TRX for such purpose and we need to understand that fee will increase when the value has increased and we cannot compare it with USD or other currency but SAT.

The fees are quite stable nowadays and that's so much better compared to the time when the network was attacked by the bitcoin ordinals spams. Why we're always thinking that it is only the large institutions can afford to pay such fees? You'll never know how many individuals out there globally that are low profile and can pay such fees as long as they need to transfer any BTC from them to anyone that they're sending or needing to get some payment from them. But what we all want is to see Bitcoin again in great shape in terms of its fees and hopefully it goes back to 1 sat/vByte for every transaction that we make. But since we're in a bull run, I am not expecting that we'd see that anytime soon.

I get scared when I imagine this happening especially during the recent times the fees went too high. It was a sad time to remember and I do wish we do not get to that point again. I must admit that I for once, doubted the possibility of Bitcoin adoption in the mainstream because such high fees is not something someone who wants to pay for goods and services will be willing to pay. It defeats the essence of using Bitcoin for payment. We also saw more people storing their Bitcoin in CEX to avoid paying high fees especially thpse using the DCA method which require regular transactions. Wish we will never get to that point again.

You shouldn’t get scared if this happened because it only means that more people will hold their Bitcoin because it’s very expensive to transfer and do a quick trade using it. People will value holding that time due to the expensive fee. This is only possible if Bitcoin price skyrocket to insane price level because the transaction will not stay in high amount(fiat value) for too long if the reason is due to increased on Bitcoin transactions.

Bitcoin fee is based on sat amount which means if the time comes that Bitcoin fee is expensive even without network congestion, I think all of us Bitcoin holder will have a massive profit due to huge price increase.

Hello all,

Thank you for your thoughtful feedback and insights

Exciting times as we approach ATHs. However, I notice that fees always go up a lot when the price is more volatile. Naturally, people are more inclined to keep their coins on exchanges during these periods, which is obviously not a good thing.

The most recent block averaged 60sat/vB, equating to roughly $5.50 for a single input/output transaction. If one were to DCA into self-custody at $100 intervals, they're paying (at least) 5.5% to transaction fees atm.

When that happens then people will start using altcoins for daily transactions and bitcoin will become a coin used for big amounts, and it will be this way because the fees for transactions will be huge, Just think about it, buy a $2 coffee and pay $50 as transaction fee just doesn't have sense. But with coins like dogecoin or Litecoin it will be totally possible to buy a $2 coffee and pay the network fee.

Tx fees spiked again, but it had been low for sometime now. I don't know if it is ordinals or fomo buying that is causing the congestion in the network, but right now tx fee is ~ 80 sats/vbyte as i type this, which is very high. During periods of high tx fee, i don't recommend that people buy through dca, you would be paying too much in fees if you are buying at different intervals, so it is better to buy less frequently and much more in amount for each purchase.

But if you defer actual coin acquisition to less frequent intervals, you average less purchasing power anyhow,  as price historically tends to rise over time.

You are missing things together but let's de-concatenate your questions and discuss them one after the other.

When large institutional investors use Bitcoin blockchain to make transactions, it will lead to more unconfirmed transaction in the mempool waiting for miners to mine them or include them into the next block and in the case where the mempool get congested, the institutional investors and everyother that make transactions will have to pay a higher fees before their transaction can get included into the next available block for transaction to be go comfirm.

There is no way this makes the transaction to be centralized, transaction on blockchain can never be centralized but if the institutional investors make use of centralized exchanges to trade it still doesn't make bitcoin centralize. The bitcoin centralization and power lies between the miners, the node and the Bitcoin protocol. This is impossible and can't be done to Bitcoin.

What if the exchange also runs a mining pool  ;)

It wouldn’t centralize Bitcoin but yes, it’ll affect the rate at which people transact with it. But know that no matter how high the transaction fee gets, Bitcoin will always be decentralized and you are not forced to use a centralized exchange to transact with it. But I hope it doesn’t get to that point because I can’t imagined how bad that would be.

I don't think only large institutions can use it. Everyone can use Bitcoin although they must pay higher fees for the transaction now. You must know it is not about large institution or small institution, all of people pay higher fees now. When you have a large number of Bitcoin, you will pay bigger fees as well.

By the way, the high transfer fees won't last forever. It will gradually decrease again when the number of transactions will be decreasing. If it is getting higher now, it is because more people trying to move their Bitcoin to CEX. They may prepare to sell their Bitcoin, they may try to rebuy when it is dropping again the price.

Bitcoin can be traded in decentralized exchanges. You are wrong if you assume it is only traded in centralized exchanges.
We have many decentralized exchanges, some of them are even popular enough.
Take a look on this https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/dex/.

Op your question is very correct because there are times I also think of it why this fee is very high and if continues then average investors can't even invest in bitcoin or use the network to make some transaction because of the transaction fee. Because there are time the transaction fee is even higher than the amount of bitcoin you want to sell. The real purpose of bitcoin has not yet actualize and which is the real p2p of using it to buy things online. The ordinals of bitcoin really need to be deal with if they the developers of it have nothing to do with them but there is...

As you said time is coming that it is only the wealthy people will be using bitcoin because of the high transaction fee.

The fees will only go high as long there is demand for transactions and there is only demand for transactions as long as the profit of the transaction justifies the large fee. For example, when all that Bitcoin NFT (Ordinals) stuff started, those NFTs were selling for very large sums. So large, in fact, that it was worth congesting the network and paying it (for the NFT minters, not the dumb saps buying them). But that hype has calmed down and so have the fees.

Bitcoin as a store of value is well worth a 7 dollar per transaction fee. But the devs are working on updates, so I see a rosy and decentralized future for Bitcoin.

So this whole issue is a restatement of 'should we scale blocksize?'

SegWit2x was shot down. BCH market price has tanked. BSV has tanked. Though I think that is market recognition.

I argued with LK on this - that there must be some g(x) where block size gets bigger as the internet gets faster and HD space gets cheaper, which it has since 2010.

Satoshi's initial idea was to scale block size.

The 1MB cap was instituted as a stop-gap measure only.

It is clear that all the high TPS and super cheap coins run into L1 centralization issues, but normies don't get this; they just want to hear TPS high and cheap.

EOS is a demonstration where you could not keep up with the rate of increase of the blocks and so end up with centralization.

DAGs may offer some solution, but I have yet to see a convincing proof.

The immutable fact is data costs space and energy to store.

The 1MB size does ensure that decentralization is high, but reaches a crunch point where miners see fees drop off.

At some point, the block size should increase, and there is some g(x).

Where this is up for question, but when BTC does increase this, it risks losing the narrative to BCH or some other scheme, as BTC has committed to 1MB.

Luke Jr actually advocated for 1/2 MB blocks, which is why I said fine, but what is your g(x)?

There must be some, and a reasonable one could solve the fee issue.

Transaction costs will always rise and fall, no balance regarding transaction costs? In fact, it is not only large institutions that are able to use Bitcoin because there are many individual people who have done it and even I myself have been charged large fees when making transactions.

Satoshi never created a centralized bitcoin and that is not the concept of bitcoin because the development carried out on bitcoin was decentralized. The relationship with the exchanges that people use is a choice of paths and certainly cannot be said to be completely centralized. If people don't want to incur large fees then they should wait for cheaper transactions and usually when transactions are not too busy then fees will go down.

Bigger block size means nothing useful if people don't use that bigger-sized blockchain.

Bitcoin forks are altcoins and even they have much bigger block sizes, their blocks have never been fully used by their blockchain users. Demands are smaller than maximum block sizes and it is kind of waste.

How many Bitcoin forks are there (https://forkdrop.io/how-many-bitcoin-forks-are-there).

People were hyped and attracted to Bitcoin forks initially but with time, they realized that Bitcoin is the best.

this is not apples to apples, the use of BTC is not the same as BTCCASH or BTCSV. They are different things.

A bigger block size will lower fees as supply goes up, and it achieves the origonal L1 soloution that satoshi outlines.

There was no mention of L2 or LN in the BTC white paper, but there were calculation by satoshi to show L1 could scale, by blocksize.

The people seeking to use and do use BTC is much higher than BTCCASH or BTCSV and the latter do achieve a much lower relative cost for fees.

this is not permanently happen mate and don't look at it as the fees are always that high
because you are wrong , look at it now even there is a super bullish moment yet the fees are just
doing smooth meaning congestion is already subsided .
and also it is not only for Large institution because you can still use bitcoin anytime(just
that fee in which you need to consider sometimes)

Bitcoin network is way cheaper haha when it comes to comparing it with the ETH network, haha I'm not gonna make comparisons but a reference is important to provide a decent piece of information with clarity I've paid even 0.3$ for a transaction on the Bitcoin and the highest I've ever paid on BTC network fees is around 5$ hmm, it will be close to this, but in the ETH network, I've even Paird around 32$ for the single transaction even 50$ I can recall for an urgent transaction, and for now 76$ 133 gwei is transection cost haha so you can imagine how costly it is.


Wrong quote buddy, remove the last [/quote] from the post

I believe there will eventually be some solutions to increasing Bitcoin fee, bitcoin is evolving as we have the BIP, and it looking at the history there is always improvement like how the community implemented SegWit. For what I know the recent increase in transaction fee is because the Bitcoin Ordinals trend, and if the community think the fee is getting ridiculous, there will be some solution to limit or even ban Bitcoin transaction.

One of the reason why most people believe in Bitcoin is because it is decentralized, so the one who take the decision on how Bitcoin grow and evolve is the community no the Big Company. 

Even though it is considered by some circles to be a new innovation in blockchain technology, what we feel is that it is just uncomfortable. That's right, as you said above, if we look closely since April 2023, there has been an increase in the cost of printing Bitcoin Ordinal which has increased by up to 700% and this is also one of the triggers for increasing costs besides network congestion. .

Of course, those who make small transactions will really feel it, but even so, as task users we can only be smart, if you really want to make transactions with small fees, try setting a medium or low fee, but the risk will take a long time. process, especially when the network is busy because miners always prioritize those who charge large fees. when the transaction is made.

Ordinals are just a new way of identifying individual satoshis on-chain. Using this method people self-assign special attributes to individual units of bitcoin, making NFTs. Of course, as the network caters to increasingly high-profile clientele, Bitcoin is naturally conducive maintaining this sort of 'art'. (despite the cost)

I struggle to understand how the fees are calculated and even online calculators rarely bring it down to an actual $ fee.

If some whale decided to sell 1,000 Bitcoin today in one transaction, what would the actual fee would be in dollars and cents? Can it even be estimated ahead of time?

It's never going to get like this in my opinion.  Bitcoin/Blockchain is a technology that can always be updated/made better and that's exactly what's going on right now and has been for the last few years.  Implementing things like the lightning network and Taproot are examples of what can be done to bitcoin to help with it's transaction time frames as well as costs. 

Thus why we should hope for bitcoin to not reach that point

The reason why the transaction fees are so high is because of
congested mempool which is not forever and besides we are now
seeing various solutions for this we just need to find the best one

Well we have layer 2 blockchain as a solution which would help bitcoin to have a faster and cheaper transaction process

It might not be perfect right now however I am quite sure that it can still be improved. Every day there are many many minds that are trying to make bitcoin better than what it is right now and I know that in no time, we will have the solutions for this.

If we want massive Bitcoin adoption, we can't hope for lower Bitcoin prices because massive adoption will result in massive transaction volumes and this automatically will create an environment where it will be very expensive to send bitcoins.
Bitcoin is getting very centralized because many people move on centralized exchanges and centralized service providers. The only solution here might be that there will be so many users of centralized bitcoin exchanges that when two people will have a need of bitcoin withdraw, they'll send it instantly without fees from one account to another, for example from Binance to Binance or some centralized exchanges might cooperate and we will be able to transfer Bitcoins without actually making a transaction, like we do with fast money transfer services, for example a new service might be fast transfer from Binance to Coinbase.

The amount of Bitcoin moved is irrelevant and has no connection to the fees paid.
What matters is how many inputs you have and to how many addresses you pay!
Here is a detailed thread with everything you need to know:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5251213.0

There are plenty of online calculators on how much you would have to pay for a transaction at a certain time, https://mempool.space/ is the best estimator for what you have to pay for a simple x, as I type 25sat/vb would be enough for a next block confirmation, so considering the size of a tx at 140vb that's around 2.50 in USD!


Limited block space, higher demand, increased fees!
It's pretty simple, everyone is anxious about the halving but they don't realize the same principles apply to the pace in the chain, with lower supply and higher demand prices go up!

Don't allow the fees to stop you not to use your opportunity well to hodl some BTC that will make you great in the future because, the high fees will not remain high forever and you can see that the fees has reduced down to make some people to believe that BTC gas fees will not go higher like ETH.

Even some companies that are using BTC to do other things like paying their workers with BTC know that the fees will not remain higher, which is the reason they are not move with the recent increase of BTC transactions fees.

The Op is not saying he will not buy BTC or he is not holding it because transaction fee will be high in the future. He is just raising concern that now institutional traders can buy bitcoin, exchanges are also there, that when price of bitcoin gets so high, it might lead to network congestion that will make the transaction fees go higher. It is just that OP didn't remember that both institutional traders and exchanges also depend on the bitcoin blockchain. The larger the amount traded, the larger the fee.

Network congestion comes from many reasons and generally if demand becomes bigger and exceeds capacity of the network, block size to deal with, it will cause mempool congestions and it will trigger transaction fee race. Consequently fee rates will be come higher and more expensive but if people are fully aware of what they are doing, they will avoid to be part of the endless fee rate race, and congestion will be cooled down.

Inscriptions, Mempools and Miners (https://insights.glassnode.com/the-week-onchain-week-39-2023/).

Expensive transaction fees months ago mainly come from Ordinals, BRC20 tokens, not from traditional Bitcoin users. Demand on BRC20 tokens has been tailing off with time and Bitcoin mempools returns to nearly normal. Fee rates are still expensive but much cheaper than months ago.

Being able to move your bitcoins with fee rates from 7 to 8 satoshi/vbyte is actually better.

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),6m,weight

Basically, in most cases we know that trading with Bitcoin is very convenient, and it is possible very fast. However, small traders face many problems due to Bitcoin's sometimes excessive transaction free. Although we are currently successful in doing transactions with very low freebies, there are times when the number of Bitcoin transactions increases significantly. This is mainly due to the pressure of Bitcoin transactions which require high transaction fees, when you deposit your funds on an exchange or transfer from there to anywhere your fees are slightly higher. However, even if it is for a temporary period, the payment system will later become accurate and complete with lower transaction fees. So no need to stress about it if you wait a BTC transaction fees will definitely come down, and currently Bitcoin transaction fees are very low.

I believe the challenge with bitcoin network regarding it transaction fee is not getting longer beyond expectations, moreover this is not the network having the highest fee, there are many other ones which cost more than we have with the bitcoin network, just as we now see that there is ease in the transaction fee that has been a problem on bitcoin users, one can no spend almost less than a dollar in making a bitcoin transaction unlike when it was high, this is not something permanent to remain high or this low, but it can be promising not to go beyond what an average bitcoiner could bear to afford.

So then
is the whole point of Bitcoin now trading for local currency on exchange, not p2p transactions?

We have transactions fees in the market, most of them are consider cheap while some are high, though they're originated from these blockchain networks. Like the Ethereum network, evolved high fees for their transactions unlike the SOL that's weigh better than Ethereum network. There's nothing to worry about, once we have target on the blockchain, the fees are affordable. The future is promising for most investors, I'm referring to the patient ones and this have been a long path to cross.

I don't think we will have a situation when Bitcoin transaction fees will only be affordable for large institutions and not for individuals. If that becomes the case, then we might demand for fork to increase the block size.
Network is centralized at some point because centralized exchanges hold the most reserves and have the highest trading volume and secondly, China and the USA own the most mining hash rate. So, bitcoin is centralized at some point.

Have you tried checking bitcoin's transaction fees today and if I remember correctly the transaction fees are around 40$ per transaction? In your opinion, is this transaction fee suitable for retail investors? If we don't have any solution to improve transaction fees, in the future bitcoin will no longer be suitable for many people as transaction fees will constantly increase. We are just at a stage where bitcoin's popularity is yet to spread globally, and just think if it adopts globally and the number of transactions increases, what will the transaction fees be like? I think it's entirely possible that we will spend $100-300 per bitcoin transaction in the future.

Op, the trading fees is never specified neither is it stabled. If the self custodian blockchain fee increases, so also the centralized exchange fees also increases.
Right in the first place, you or minor investors should ask yourself a question that Why does bitcoineers have to pay much fees in a self custodian blockchain? This is actually because you're being billed to pay for an assured secured blockchain unlike the centralized exchange where you're not a whole in charge of your assets. On this mindset single handedly, neither you or the other investors who're below large institutions wouldn't prepare to store your assets on the centralized exchange just because of a lower fee.
What happens if your assets is compromised out of greeds of trying to skip high fees? That's just a food for thought!
And at this point of contact, bitcoin can never be succeeded to be centralized.

The Op mean to say if only a large institutions can afford to pay the high fees of a self custodian blockchain, then the minor bitcoin Investors may pull over to have their bitcoin assets stored in a centralized exchange which could encounter to a centralization of bitcoin since most Investors would have their assets there in centralized exchanges.

This is an important point to talk about.there are a lot of reason why bitcoin fess is high, for instance where there’s a high network congestion , when there’s a lot of user engaging in the bitcoin transaction and exchanges and this can lead to high volume of transactions fees because of excessive activity on this.

Another one is excessive demand ,it’s a simple logic the more user engaging in it can cause blockage and when you need a faster way out to get access to a something you have to pay a high fess to get access it to so whatever you have to do with it. Bitcoin Halving can also result to Bitcoin block reward halving, which occurs approximately every four years, reduces the number of new bitcoins generated with each block. This can incentivize miners to prioritize transactions with higher fees to compensate for the reduced block rewards.so there a lot of reason for high bitcoin fees but it’s only discouraging it for peolpe or user with little capital and majorly making it for the company to enjoy it because of the high fees transaction costs.

There were point in time when the transaction fees have subside already and so we can say that average joe traders and investors are very happy and everyone is back. But now in the last couple of days, the fees has someone increase again and thanks to Runes and the timing of it's released.

Nevertheless, for me this is just another temporary hiccups to all of us and we should bear with it. This won't last long as we have seen last year and then gradually back to like 6-10 sat/vB (in my view this is bearable to most Bitcoin enthusiast).

I hope so, the fees are terribly high again. I am optimistic that maybe after a week or two then it will be back again. But this time, those that are okay to pay like $9-$14 worth of fees, do it. But it's worth it when you've got a thousand worth of transaction but if it's less than $100 or even $200, do you think that it's worth of the fee? Well, if you need the money, you can't do anything with that. I'm just here waiting for it to calm down.

Damn, I have this thread on watch and wondered why there are people commenting in it while the fees are low and more than good at the moment (last time I checked the fees was Tuesday, haha).

And then I checked the mempool and saw the bad news.
It's so strange to see this happen all the time, without any clue why it is actually happening. For a while fees are super low and everybody is happy and suddenly bang, congestion.
Hopefully this issue will be fixed some day, don't know how this could be done though.

Of course, when fees are high, users always look for alternatives that are considered more flexible as you mentioned above in trading Bitcoin through centralized exchanges.

The issue of fee has always been a hot discussion, I myself respond to it usually and this is also I think there is a positive value which on the other hand is also a driver for regulators to pay more serious attention in finding and setting reasonable costs so that the best solution will be born in an effort to improve network scalability and efficiency.

No way, transaction fees weren't that high today, during the time I posted, it was around 6-7 dollars but just right now it's up to $20 based on average native segwit transaction of 140 sat/vByte.
$40 is also still affordable for some people. If transaction fees $100 or something like that and will stay that way for more than two weeks, I think then there will be a major decision made about Bitcoin's block size or other solutions but I think that people just move on altcoins and don't use Bitcoin for daily transactions.

High fees are bad for Bitcoin. Mempool is getting spammed by ordinals and normal users are not able to use Bitcoin. So frequent high fees are not temporary anymore, it has become a habit, it's already unstable, one day you wake up and fees are low, another day you wake up and understand that you can't move your coins because fees are out of this world.

Just checked & currently 133 sat/vB so you are looking at over $13 for a medium priority transaction. It has to ordinals spammers. Luckily they don’t seem as rampant at the moment, it comes in bursts which are much rater so in a few hours it should be a lot cheaper to send Bitcoin. Unless it's urgent you should be patient & wait until fees are lower.

Yes , perhaps we need to adapt and get used to high fees because this is no longer a temporary problem but is becoming more and more frequent . Think about what would happen to transaction fees if more and more people joined bitcoin and more transactions were made ? Sadly, until now there has been no truly effective solution to overcome the transaction fee problem, we have to really adapt and live with this reality.

This reminds me of people who are dreaming of bitcoin becoming a currency in their country , are they willing to use bitcoin to pay their daily bills and pay an extra $5-$15 per transaction?   

Damn!

I thought it's typo because few days ago I check the fees was less than 10 sat/vbyte, now it's surge by thirteen.

The crackdown by Binance to stop accepting ordinals and runes seems not really affect the market (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5491614.0), it seems can't be stopped because their community don't mind to trade using swaps.

What makes Bitcoin Decentralized?  Nodes? Nodes are not currently making decisions about the network.  Who is?

What are the developers, who are making the decisions about the network(decentralized?) doing to fix this problem?  They are adding Inscriptions and Runes to the network which is increasing the size of the block and increasing fees.

How well is the network going to work with fees at $15 to $30 US dollars per transaction?

Bitcoin has been turned into a centralized TradFi investment for the wealthy.  The exact opposite of what it was intended to be. It was intended to be a decentralized, peer-to-peer form of electronic cash.

Any chance we could get this ship moving in the right direction?

Does anyone care?

Doesn't even make sense for me to check these days. I'm just swallowing it when it's above 100 sats/byte, my txs are pretty lean anyway so I don't feel the pain. Can definitely understand what it means for most people with no control or even no fee control. Though you'd have thought by now they'd have taken the effort to understand after a year of ordinals.

A year! Can't believe it's been that long. Buoyed by ATH of course.

The fact that no centralized authority or entity is controlling Bitcoin or its network makes it decentralized. Miners are the ones making decisions about the network by mining new blocks containing transactions, there is no other decision-making other than that.


Bitcoin developers are not making any decisions about the network nor can they change anything in the existing network or blockchain. They can modify it and create new versions out of it, Bitcoin Cash (https://bitcoincash.org/) is an example of that among others.


Transaction fees are not always that high, it's just sometimes when the network gets extremely congested which makes transaction fees go higher since everyone wants to have their transactions confirmed first and miners give priority to transactions with higher fees.


It was intended to be a decentralized peer-to-peer electronic cash and it is still that, what makes you think it has changed from that other than the fact that it has become extremely popular? It still works the same way it did in the beginning, there will surely be some changes when there are more users in the network.

BTC is p2p electronic cash, whether you send it with a high or low tx fee, as long as you do not use centralized services that act as a third party in the trade, then it is a p2p tx. However, i cannot deny that spending BTC on 'cheap' goods or services is almost impossible when tx fees are high, but if you are making cross-border payments or sending a large amount in BTC, then it is great. Take note that tx fees is not always high and we used to make tx's with ~ 1 sat/vbte before ordinals spam 'attack', and if the network is no longer congested, tx fee can fall to that level.

Bitcoin fees seem to be roughly same as long ago, at least in terms of btc price.

So hodl BTC and you will be alright :)

Dollar/Euro hodl-ers be f#cked =)

Bitcoin transaction fees are even more volatile than bitcoin prices, LOL. If you only make transactions every few months or you are investing in bitcoin with capital of a few hundred thousand dollars and a few million dollars, then a fee of $40-50 is an affordable and insignificant price. But for those who only invest a few thousand USD or make many transactions every day, it is not as small as you think, even spending 4 USD per transaction is a problem for many people, not to mention higher.

There is no need to wait for bitcoin transaction fees to increase to $100 for people to switch to altcoins, many have already done this.

When is long ago? For sometime the fee rate has been low, but it seems like the spam attack has started again and the fee rate has spiked once more. As i type this, the fee rate for high priority tx's is ~ 50 sats/vbyte and there are ~ 170k unconfirmed tx's in the mempool. Finally, take note that BTC price does not determine the fee you will pay in order for your tx to be confirmed, it is your tx size and the network congestion that determines that.

Don't blame the congested bitcoin network or rising bitcoin transaction fees on spam attacks like ORDI or more recently RUNES. Because think about it, if one day bitcoin becomes popular and is used by everyone in the world, this will also happen and be even more serious. So what we need and hope is that developers will soon have a solution to fix this before worse things happen instead of just blaming.
Bitcoin transaction fees are too high, it's true, and this makes many retail investors feel unhappy is also true, and what we need is a solution, not blame.

Fees are typically only high when the network is congesed due to a specific event, and are not high all.of the time. It was only a few days ago that the US Government transferred $2 billion of BTC to Coinbase and paid $1.74 in fees alone. I do believe that Bitcoin will become a storage of wealth and less likely be used for daily transactions like groceries or gas. The lightning network solves that if it is required though.

High fees following network congestion is one of the major challenge I have seen in Bitcoin and it is usually refer to as scalability challenge. Unless I am not getting properly, scalability is a big problem to Bitcoin and hope something can be done to handle it. We all saw how ordinals messed up the Bitcoin network that lead to high fees, that not being the first time we are experiencing such major congestion.

I do think that the transfer of $2 billion worth of Bitcoin to Coinbase by the US government is the reason for the recent high fees because according to you, they paid as little as $1.74 as fee. There could be other reasons but one or few transactions does not seem like something that can lead to the congestion of the Bitcoin network.

If someone decides to hijack Bitcoin network then they have to burn few hundred thousands of dollars for every block which makes that it's not really possible in long run so attacking via network fees will just eat the money of attackers.

The excessive fees on Bitcoin network is due to the inscription of ordinals when investors think that NFT is going to moon and burning their BTC as fees.

It is definitely a big problem for the common investor or common user when it comes to trading bitcoins with extra transaction fees. Normal users may spend a maximum of $2 to $5 on a Bitcoin transaction but a normal user will not pay $20 to $40 transaction fees for a $50 to $100 transaction. But the comfort for the users is that the transaction free is never fixed when the transaction fee is excessive then the transaction fee comes back to the normal level. If an investor needs to trade and there are additional transaction fees while doing the transaction, I would tell him that you should wait for that time and try to trade again when the transaction fee is comparatively lower.

Welcome to BTC this is why it will never be a replacement daily transactions.

currently the problem is that there are many ordinals transactions, apparently not to mention that they are competing for who can mine the first block of the fifth era

L2 is the only solution since they will never increase block size in btc

Switch to "immutable" and kling on. Where's the vote?