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What happened:: To set the scene, I found this casino from here and from the owners reddit posts. I created an account last year and had some fun. I started losing in December and decided to close my account. Roll around March this year, I get the urge to have another go. I check the website and my account is gone - which makes sense. I create a new account, deposit and start to play. This was my one and only mistake...

I never use welcome bonuses, I prefer to play only with raw deposits for context.

Well, I had the week of my life. I put in around 4500eur, and in the end I got 2 max wins on different hacksaws and my balance peaked at 35000EUR. I have linked an image of this below. My first withdraws went OK, but this casino still has withdraw limits of 5000 a week, so I was stuck after my first 2 withdraws.
Late last night, my heart falls out my chest - an email from BetCrypto. "Your Account has been terminated". This must be a mistake? But no, they've closed my account and are forfeiting all my funds due to multiaccounting. I tried talking to the owner, but his final say is that "it has been determined that you have disregarded this rule by maintaining multiple accounts on our platform", and that "However, it is essential for us to uphold the integrity of our platform and ensure a fair gaming environment for all our users. The rule regarding the prohibition of multiple accounts is in place to safeguard the fairness and transparency of our services.".

I've only ever had one open account with this site, and I never used any wagering or bonuses - I am a completely fair cash only player. I feel like this is a classic case of a casino using whatever fine print it can to get out of paying out a big win. The sickening thing about this is that the wins were probably the luckiest things that have ever happened to me, and I was planning to pay off all my gambling debt with this.

I'm only posting here as I have exhausted all options with the casino owner - obviously he does not want to pay me out. I post this here because I want it on the record - I trusted this casino and now I feel like I have been betrayed. I'm being treated like a cheat when all I ever was, was honest.

I didn't even want to make this post, I hoped that I would be able to clear things up with the owner, as he seemed reasonable. Alas I've been completely stonewalled.

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3515379

Reference Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5450567.0
Amount Scammed: €26,000
Payment Method: BTC
Proof of Payment: https://p.eax.re/F2T3BnI8UN3C.png
PM/Chat Logs: https://p.eax.re/vreGdc82kjfL.png
Additional Notes: If any more information / proof is required please let me know, I'll attach anything I have access to.

We are sorry, but our Terms and conditions are clear, ONE ACCOUNT PER PLAYER, you opened a second account and that's not allow, this rule is even bold and red in our terms and conditions page.

We want to point out with your second account, you were able to withdraw all your initial deposits + profits.


Furthermore, we have all the evidence you opened this second account, take into consideration we are not the only online casino with this rule so it is nothing new in this industry.

We can show all the evidence to a trusted member of the forum

I think it would be good if you could, at least you could show the reasoning behind confiscating 26,000 euros. I think this really just boils down to: you were happy to see me deposit and play, but then when I won you immediately had an excuse to not pay out. Essentially getting it both ways.

Hopefully when transgressions and evidence is posted it will justify your 26000 euro theft, but I don't feel like it will. 

We told you multiple accounts are not allowed

Also with your account BCE239 you deposited in total around €7000 and you were able to withdraw €9000 before our system flag your account.

Again, because I had a disabled account (which I disabled) and again, I did not claim any bonuses or abuse any wagering.

It boils down to you keeping 26000 euros on a technicality. Post all the evidence, because at least it will show that I'm honest about everything.

Multiple accounts are not allowed at all online casinos, we are not making a new kind of rule,  it not my fault you didn't read the ToS that rule is even bold and red.

I'm sorry but no exceptions   

jesus! regardless of the reason why he had to register another account.
he disabled his first account that's why he created another account. i think the first account was already forfeited which means it shouldn't be considered an account anymore after being disabled.


but why was the account disabled in the first place by you?  is Betcrypto.cr not saying something yet as to what happened to that old account?

He opened a ticket just saying disable account

We are a non KYC casino, we can't allow multiple accounts.

I asked for the account to be disabled last year because I had been gambling a bit much. I admit this part was stupid of me, but I've been honest every step of the way, I'm not pretending my mums aunts cousin used my computer. I just feel that this is beyond harsh... I finally hit it big...

We see stories like this often, OP. In this section, there are several similar ones. But the fact that you consider yourself honest looks different for the casino. The casino has hundreds of users; if your IP address once appears in the system, then you must understand that all other accounts that will be assigned to you will be considered multi-accounts. Talking about your personal reasons for wanting to stop playing or not for the casino will not look like a sense of understanding; if you want to leave, leave, but the site remembers everything. On the Internet, we are all creative, and it is very easy to tell sob stories, so much so that scammers show other people’s documents. But another point is that they don’t have to believe you. There is a record, and you can't do anything against it.

Even with all that, I don't see what I did to take advantage of anything? My original account was closed, I played on only one account this year, and I never used any casino promotions. Only raw balance I deposited was used.

I understand that it was my mistake not to try and reactivate my original account, but I am struggling to view this as justification for confiscating 26,000 euros.

And in terms of honesty, if this casino posts their evidence, at least it will show explicitly that I only used one account this year and no bonus or wagering abuse.

From what has been posted by the player and the casino,  there is no attempt to defraud, bonus abuse, circumvent limits, etc by the player.

The only reason the player disabled his account originally was to take a break as he may have been gambling too much.  Looking at the site, they have no tools for responsible gambling,  they do not even mention it anywhere on the site from what I can see,  not even a generic statement about how to seek help.  

The player also stated his original account was "gone"  the casino did not dispute this.   So, you can't really claim he is multiaccounting.  

The casino also boldy states here in this thread and on their site, they are a No KYC casino, which violates their agreement with providers such as pragmatic and hacksaw.

When you brag about being a no KYC casino,  you are going to attract multiaccounters anyways, so this does not seem to be a real concern of yours,  unless of course someone wins big and you don't want to pay... or cant pay.


Considering this was a casino launched with some reddit posts (I remember seeing those posts as well)   they likely do not have the funds to pay, or simply dont want to.  

We can share the evidence with a trusted member of the forum if we post it wild open, this will make some of our systems useless because now they will know what to hide


They can always open a ticket to close their account.

His original account was disable by his request so far we have proof of just one extra account but we don't know if he has more,  that's why multi account is not allowed

Also, we pay him 9k euros before his account was flag, and we have ALL the evidence about the other account he opened

We are sorry, but this is nothing new, multiaccount is not allowed at any online casino and each account counts  

Just to understand more about this. The reason you stated on your email to them last year to disable your account, it's this? You happened to mention to them that you need to close your account because you gambled too much? Or you simply [as the casino wrote above yours] asked for it to be disabled without specific reason?

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You don't know he has multiple or you can't find more because he only have two [the one being closed and this new one being opened]?

A bit out of context, but to clarify, some casino actually allows multi acc, as long as it's not used with malicious intent like bypassing limitation or abusing bonus.

Here is what he ask our customer support, he just asked to disable account

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/02/Vvzx8.png

Right now, we don't have more evidence about a third account.

We dont allow multiple accounts, the reason is based on our internal risk aproach, in our T&C that rule is even in bold and red

Unfortunately yes, I had pushed a bit too far and just wanted the account closed. There's no malice in any of this, the only real issue is that I got 2 max wins on 1eur stakes and I'm being punished for it now. I think the owner has made it his mission to make me look bad here, but I've been honest at every step. You also mentioned about multiaccounts/bonus users, but I've always been strictly raw balance, so I've never even taken advantage of any offer.

I'm sorry, but multi accounts are NOT allow at our site.

It is clearly mentioned at the T&C, you should have read the T&Cs before opening a second account.

Actually, no. You only wrote and ask them to disable your account, without specifying the reason behind it, as proven by a screenshot provided by their representative above, showing your correspondencies with them. You simply said, "disable my account."

I previously asked if you specifically mentioned to them that you need your account closed because you gambled too much to know if they act according to Gamble Aware regulation, where any respectable casino will not and should not cater another account being opened by a gambler for whatever reason, if he requested for a self exclusion.

However, it seems this is not your case, as you simply wanted a break, and you did not ask to be excluded [if they have any feature like that on their platform].

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I actually looked at the ToS [and smiled a little because it does written in red]. If I may...

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/04/02/VvqAG.jpeg

though you're the one that knows best what's your ToS about and the nature of each clauses in it, may I argue that the no multiple account terms were to enforce players to "play fair and square", to discourage any attempt of abuses of bonus and/or limitation, thus it's written in red altogether in one sentence.

Departing from this, and if OP is proven to only have one active account at a time, and that the previous account was permanently closed for no harmful reason [it's closed simply because OP needed a break], can it be argued that OP does play fair and square, and as such, he does not breach your ToS.

Can you perhaps mull over this and considering to give OP an exception? Given, again, he technically does not breach your term and/or does any harm to the ToS. His only mistake here was asking for his account to be disabled when he needed a break instead of just leave the account be.

My two cents.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I had given reasoning. I was just explaining why I did it at the time. You're correct and the logs show that yes I just asked for the account to be disabled.

We are sorry but not exceptions.

Also with his second account he deposited around 7,000 EUROS and withdrew 9,000 euros before our system detected that it was a second account.

Once again we are sorry but the multiple account rule is the most important rule for us.

Op has come out clean to state he had an open account with Betcrypto.cr and along the way probably after feeling like gambling addiction was kicking in requested for account to be disabled which technically means account got closed, I don't see how this falls under multi-accounting when both  accounts have never been operational at the same time and to top if off never involved in bonus promotions abuse ???

Btw, if @Betcrypto.cr is not ready to pay siting user was multi-accounting , what options did the Op have if he wanted to comeback to this platform...and having played on several gambling sites such features need to be embedded on the platform by self excluding & choosing how long one wants to self exclude themselves and when ready you can comeback & if people try to stay off gambling by taking this route this shows the user is a responsible and a mature gambler...but being punished for this is a brutal decision which should be rescinded!!!

Look the screenshot of the Ticket he opened he didn't ask to self exclude, if OP wanted to come back he could email us he even has the owner's email

We don't do KYC and that's the most important rule we have NO MULTI-ACCOUNTS so far we find him an extra account, but he could have 4 more, extra accounts are not fair game

I hate saying it, but I think it's obvious what's going on now. I'm beginning to make peace with it, but at least with these posts people will be able to see what kind of outfit they're running.

This casino likely has no funds to pay.  

They keep repeating they paid 9k euros as if this is an accomplishment, or that the player really shouldn't be complaining because he withdrew more than he deposited, so he should be ok with forfeiting the rest.

If the player was not abusing bonuses, or circumventing limits, any reasonable operator would pay him.   But this is a casino started on a shoe string budget that can't afford to pay.  

No one can play at this casino with any reasonable confidence in being paid if they hit big.  


I challenge the casino to state what advantage the player had, or in what way was his play not fair?   We dont care about your big bold letters in your rules.  

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I don't think you're intelligent enough to know what a contradiction this is

Multiple accounts are not allowed I dare you to go to  ANY of the online casinos from here open an account play withdraw from that original account and then ask to disable it, wait one day open a new one play and try to withdraw they will not even allow you to withdraw from your second account.

We have rules it is the player responsibility to read them, if he don't like those rules so don't open an account.

Our casino is KYC free we have never asked anyone for KYC and with the original account of OP he was able to also withdraw a couple thousand euros without any problems  WE NEED TO HAVE SOME RULES

If you don't know what advantage a player have with multiple account since i work in this industry i will not give you ideas to exploit other sites (they are also not going to let you open more than one account)

Also just do a simple google search

Name the advantage this player had

Of course players have advantage if they are abusing bonuses,  this player didnt take any bonuses,  he didnt circumvent limits,  so explain.

You are stuck in your position unwilling to act in good faith because you likely cant pay winners.

Don't come here acting like we're the only online casino that doesn't allow multiple accounts, this player broke our T&C.

Other casinos that do not allow multiple accounts

Stake -> https://stake.com/policies/terms

Nitrobetting  -> https://nitrobetting.eu/terms-conditions/  (Limits and restrictions)

Fortunejack -> https://fortunejack.com/faq/terms_and_conditions


And many more, go to your favorite casino and read the terms and conditions YOU ARE NOT ALLOW TO HAVE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS  


Also in the lifetime of this player we have paid him 11k EUR in total we don't have problems paying players just don't brake the rules

The real issue is these 2 wins, might as well post them so people can enjoy the replays:
https://replay.hacksawgaming.com/?roundid=10000224751322&partner=2351&language=en
https://replay.hacksawgaming.com/?roundid=10000227607591&partner=2351&language=en

I'm pet much resigned to the fact they're going to keep everything now. The best bit is, they talk about the 11k eur lifetime, but I know my deposits come to more than that. Just another casino that doesn't want winners I guess?

When you enter their really cheap looking site, with no licence or anything, does it look like they have 26,000€ to pay you?

OP, why would you put thousands of euros in to casino like this... Its your fault.

This has happend million of times during the years, some new unfunded cheap casino is trying their luck catching a big whale.

I never ran a huge balance all at once, this was the product of some rare wins. But yes, it's becoming pretty obvious that they just can't pay this kind of win. They actually have table limits and limits on pragmatic slots, so I guess they just shouldn't be running NoLimit and Hacksaw games in general

Its a good thing to have all the necessary information's and proofs to report a platform on scam accusation, but we also have to have it in mind that such individual also must have been seen to following the strict guidelines and rules of using such a platform, when we fail from our own part and violate their rules, then i don't see a need to why we should make any report on scam accusation since the causes is coming from us, its very simple to achieve, don't break their rules, but you went ahead using multiple account on their platform and you got detected, who is unfair here.

I never used multiple concurrent accounts, and the casino can post their logs which prove that. It was indeed my mistake to open a new account instead of asking to reactivate my original account- but is that a 26000 eur mistake? It feels very much like I'm just being hit with an excuse.

You are 2k euros in profit

Don't come here acting like you didn't know it wasn't allowed to have multiple accounts because with your second account you tried to hide your IPs multiple times.

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Lol we have more than 26k euros, but OP broke the T&Cs he is not denying he opened another account and that's against our rules 

Also, he is acting like he didn't know it wasn't allowed, but with the second account he used multiple new IPs different from the original one, why would he do that if he didn't know the no multiple account rule ?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Not trying to sway your final decision about OP, merely trying to add more depth and possibilities to be ventured [and perhaps a broader knowledge to learn] but... if OP [or some other players] consistently have different IPs, isn't it possible that they just happen to have a dynamic IP?

Was OP's original account also accessed from ever-changing IP, or is it a static one?

Oh, and please don't post in consecutive, you can reply to multiple user through multi-quote, and if you want to add something after you made your post before someone else made a post, you can add them through "edit" feature. Consecutive posting is frowned by the forum

Because I have cheap shit VPN, and some of the games on your site don't seem to work on my preferred country, Norway. As a matter of fact, I couldn't get thunderkick games to work at all, regardless of where I VPNd from.

Don't forget you explicitly support VPN.


I would have at least one static IP, for the VPN I use I think each country I use has  static IP as well. I have to use a VPN as my home country has many blocked games. Nature of the beast unfortunately.

We are not basing the decision with just having dynamic IPS , he signed up from the original account from one specific IP and with the second account at one moment he signed in with that same ip

You've obviously made your decision, as unfair as it is. Clearly holding onto this 26k is more important than integrity or just doing the moral thing

You violated the T&Cs.

Yeah, agreed.

lol we have more than 26 euros, OP already admitted he opened a second account, that's against any online casino T&Cs  he won with his second account we are sorry, but the rules are the rules, multi account is nothing new to this industry 

Before I mistakenly gave your casino a shot, I was using Gamdom, and they support multiple accounts & are one of the biggest casinos in the space.

OP, you are clearly playing on sites and not reading their Terms and Conditions.

FYI you are playing in gandom from a restricted country

https://gamdom.com/help/terms

" You have no right to use the services as anonymizing proxy, VPN or the like in order to bypass the law resulting from the blockade by Gamdom.com countries. In case of violation of these principles Gamdom.com reserves the right to block and / or immediately close the account and You lose all wins."

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/05/V4DhP.png

Sooner or later they will do KYC on your account, and you are not going to be able to do it since your country is on the list and if you use a VPN to bypass it and they find out guess what they will do to your wins.

Also, they allow to have one active account at the time but they do KYC , we don't allow multiple accounts and we don't do KYC ,each site has its pros and cons.

You are also exposing your gamdom wins if you use a VPN since your country is banned

BetCrypto,

Do you agree the purpose of not allowing multiaccounters is to prevent abuse?  such as bonus abuse,  limits abuse,  fraudulent behavior?


If you can agree with that,  please tell us which one of those this player is guilty of.   The world is not black and white, there is grey.  

If he did not defraud you in anyway,  or abuse any of your pormotions with his 2nd account,  then you should pay him.  Because if he had lost on this account, you certainly would not have canceled his losses and refunded him.  To say you would, would be a laughable lie.  


He told your support to disable his account.  He did not say permanently, nor did he say remove it from the system.  He wanted a cool down period which any respectable site would offer.  


You are hiding behind this rule because you cant afford to pay.  Simple as that

So far we discover him 1 extra account since we don't do KYC we have to be strict with this rule of no multiple accounts we have discovered players opening multiple accounts to try to favor the sports odds, collusion , trying to find ways to exploit our cashier software etc

Since we don't do KYC we don't know if at any time he has open more accounts and try to exploit the site on some form

We put the rules in place, it is even read and bold he as a player has to read them if he don't like it so don't deposit

Also look what he just put about gamdom he clearly isn't reading the terms and conditions of other sites.

Before creating an account in any casino, it is most important to read the T&C of that casino properly. But you missed everything here. T&C may be different from one casino to another, it is not good to ignore T&C while creating account on assumption which may lead to problems at one time. You're in that problem now and the casinos will take advantage because they have you to catch, and that's what they're doing.

I don't really want to go into my own personal circumstances, but to cover your points: I already have level 2 KYC with gamdom,and my permanent residence is not in the UK. You are hiding behind a technicality, punishing a fair player which will probably end up costing you more in the long run. I really don't get why you're so stuck on this.

You're talking about collusion, sports betting, cashier fraud. None of which I ever committed on your site.

The player should be paid. For all intents and purposes, he only used one account. He voluntarily closed the first one and no abuse ever occurred with the first account.

Thanks

I also hit 2 max wins today on Gamdom, coming to $15,000. Paid out within the hour.

Apologies for double post, but interesting update.

Been pursuing a complaint through Casino Guru, who place emphasis on casinos being fair when it comes to disputes. Seems like BetCrypto has realised they're not coming across well as they've done an about face and are now saying I'm holding them ransom with DDOS  ???

https://p.eax.re/Z8OV75hkGocS.jpg
https://p.eax.re/FiyDrOnb9q55.jpg

Unbelievable.

Funny how we are getting threads emails, first just asking to pay that account, and today we got this one threatening a Ddos attack if we didn't pay, btw they were successful for a couple of hours

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/11/1uvjc.png

Also

1) You broke the rules by opening multiple accounts
2) Now you are sending thread emails

You are right that almost every book has the no multiple account rule. The rule is so as to not abuse bonuses or circumvent limits. The player did neither. He disabled one account and then played with another with no intent to defraud. The player should be paid unless he is truly the one that started the DDoS attack.

I'll start off by saying that I have carried out no such actions. I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I think the casino rep is also forgetting that I already sent them my name & address when I was appealing their decision, so to do something that could land me in jail would not be a smart move.

If I was going to send threatening emails I don't think I'd bother with sites such as bitcointalk or Casino Guru either.

Also still on the "You broke the rules" soundbite, but I think everyone can see that in terms of fairness, you are the ones who have taken a very unfair, anti-player stance.

I'll still be hoping for a positive resolution but at this stage I think it's clear that it either won't or can't happen.

Do they have valid license from Hacksaw gaming? Its pretty clear that the casino doesnt have the funds to pay you. Stay away from BetCrypto.cr.

I hope the casino pay soon, its not good to have debts caused by gambling. Gambling can ruin your life.

They are in Costa Rica so they have a data processing license since there isn't a gaming license in Costa Rica. I agree with you in stay far away from this book if they don't pay.


There is absolutely no advantage to having two accounts unless you are circumventing limits or abusing bonuses. Show us an example if you think otherwise. The amount he bet on the second account would have to be more than the max bet of the first account to circumvent limits. The one other exception would be you having multiple lines where the accounts had different lines. Do you put up different lines for different people? He had one account since the other account was closed. How did you come to the conclusion that the OP is involved in the DDoS attack?

I can't find Hacksaw on their list anymore when I check it today. Did they just removed Hacksaw from their playable games?

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It's completely unrelated. Hacksaw Gaming is a game developer, not a license provider in the sense of regulatory body.

The "license" said and referred by Fixefelix is a license to integrate Hacksaw Gaming's game into their platform, i.e. an agreement and binding terms that has to be fulfilled by the platforms and players in order to play those games on the said platform.