Bitcoin Forum

Below u'll find the 3rd part of Transparent Mining essay, the 1st and 2nd parts r available here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364218.0 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=458036.0. The essay is based on text written by BCNext, I paraphrase it in my own words to protect BCNext's real identity against text style analysis (as was agreed).

Bitcoin was a genious invention but implementation became corrupted by people whose aim was to make money, not bitcoins but dollars. BCNext was working on a project that required special conditions for its existence, he hoped that Bitcoin would change the society and prepare ground for the project. Half a year ago it became crystal clear for him that Bitcoin, as an idea of trustless money, had failed. A fix was required and it came in the form of Transparent Mining. "Transparent" is the key word here, it changes focus from "trust no one" to "don't let to cheat", because any cheating becomes obvious very soon (as soon as allowed by network latency). Nxt is just a work-around, it was launched to win more time and to conduct an experiment that was supposed to show if the society is ready for the main project of BCNext. He thinks that society can't be completely decentralized, and Nxt will let to measure level of decentralization after which a society can't function as a whole. Bitcoin relies only on math, but math can't solve problems arising because of illogical nature of the man. Mining in Nxt relies on cooperation of people and even forces it. Without cooperation Nxt becomes weak and can be easily attacked. It's like a system in unstable equilibrium, if people stop to care about cooperation then Nxt will fail very fast.

Now, when you know why Nxt was created your should choose what way to follow. The easiest one is to repeat the history of Bitcoin in hope that something will change. The alternative is to implement Transparent Mining and try to handle people imperfection. The latter can't be done with pure math and even if you manage to find some laws you can't be sure that these laws won't change in the future. BCNext went for good, he doesn't feel himself responsible for the future of Nxt, he implemented an idea that was obvious but noone tried to do it (maybe because creation of a Bitcoin clone was much easier). One day he will come back with his main project under his real name. Don't try to find real identity of BCNext, he intentionally copied style and ideas of different people, if you think you found him then you are likely wrong. BCNext has never existed, this sockpuppet was created only for Nxt and will never appear again.

The plan always was very simple - to show the way that very obvious but avoided for some reason. BCNext doesn't pretend that he possesses sacral knowledge and knows what is awaiting in the end. You are left on your own. Good luck.

Interested.

I dont get it... was the community supposed to figure out how to fully implement full TF?  WTFO or is some Apr 1 joke

Bummer.

Does it officially make nxt a short term system & currency? :( Until a master takes over

What is the outcome of this history? If this way suggests that the algo/math of bitcoin needs to be changed, then I guess only the alternate way aka  nxt TF should occur. Not sure about the meaning here. Maybe the plan is actually a rhetorical question comforting TF

Btw, who was this guy in the picture!?

BCNext of course. Right before a gig.

Now cut the crap and let's continue working on TM, my friends :-*

I am glad I was wrong :) So BCNext could be Satoshi or Vitalik

Wtf does this mean? Buy or sell? :p

I want to buy the moon.

Deathodl.

now is the moment: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg6022441#msg6022441
 ;D

You meant if it was Vitalik, the Etherum is the main project?

Hm, this makes sense...

That means that both Bitcoin and Nxt will fail.
But you can't sell it for fiat.
So, you can't do anything  ;D

..the scales fell from my eyes..

Really don't think so. Why would he "discover" a trap for clones..
Also, at the Miami Bitcoin conference, he did not seem a bit involved in nxt in any way :)

I don't care if Ethereum could be the main project. We can beat them.

Maybe he created a monster that he cannot control.

Guys, humor!

No. Bitcoin is.

So let's implement the Transparent Mining! But how? I know some guys have been discussing it lately.

 ;D ;D

 ;D

I think the main project of BCNext is Qubic  :-* Good day!

3 months ago, a mysterious women asked me to start a New Economy Movement. She said her previous idea has no more hope. I can't help but obeying.

you should change it to: two natural blondes asked me ...

Two girls one coin

Btw www.nxtforum.org
When do we start the serious talk :)

Really? How do you know it was a woman? Did you talk to her?

@CfB - Do you know how to fully implement the Transparent Mining?

Yes

Can someone explain, for an apparent dummy, how exactly we as a community have chosen poorly to make BCNext want to bail on us?  Was he planning on bailing all along?  Is ther other things he was goign to tell us how to do that we will no never know?   What choices were we given where we apparently chose wrong?  Were we expected to come up with the solution for full TF ourselves?  Did BCNext give us all the tools we needed, and yet we still failed?

Is this about the fees thing?  Had we chosen .01 or .001 for fees would he have still bailed?

it was described in the paper:
http://apps.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/scicache/977/scimakelatex.1772.BCNext.Satoshi.Come-from-Beyond.pdf

Look at the calendar. :)

look at my very first post in this thread, there was no response, so im guessing its real

love it!

well that one went above and beyond the avian carrier RFC of long ago

Could be the best sentence I ever read on wikipedia:
"For example: If 16 homing pigeons are given eight 32 GB SD cards each, and take an hour to reach their destination, the throughput of the transfer would be 9102 Mbit/s, excluding transfer to and from the SD cards."

CFB, is this an Aprils Fools Joke?

Bcnext is german. They did the same experiment in the german tv (stern tv) about a year ago. :)

Where, geographically, is April Fools Day celebrated?

No.

@CFB, question regarding TF written by BCNext.  Can you tell us if he wrote all 3 parts at the same time?  Also, can you tell us when he wrote the TF essay?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day

April Fools' Day (sometimes called All Fools' Day) is an informal holiday celebrated every year on April 1. Popular since medieval times, the day is not a national holiday in any country, but it is widely recognized throughout European cultures and celebrated as a day when people play practical jokes and hoaxes on each other, called April fools.[1] Hoax stories are also often found in the press and media on this day.

I got all the parts with 2 month gap between them. TF essay is what I call my "translation" of his plan.

Will TM be implemented before you leave?

So is this actually a third part of BCNext's plan?

Third and last part.

I'm not sure I'm going to leave. Going to stay for longer than I expected.

Woohoo!

http://englishrussia.com/images/nerd_party/3.jpg

So WTF all of this is suppose to mean?

Great! I have loads of questions for the Nxt Glossary  8)


Will you still be under a contract from someone or independent consultant?

I fell like somebody is playing freaking mind games with all of us here. Trust no one first, not even BCNext. Now this third part of BCNext's plan. Then CFB you ar leaving and then apparently not leaving.

I don't know how will this NXT experiment gonna end, but whatever happens nobody can say tha we are not having one helluva ride. :-D

Ha ha I am not sure anybody knows..

The latter.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sGDPXqLN3Us


 



Ps I don't know ;D ;D ;D

Great news, no more cryptic answers  :D

Well, welcome aboard ;)

BCNext:     Now, when you know why Nxt was created your should choose what way to follow.

Is this the reason you are staying CFB?

does ANYBODY know what it was BCNext wanted from us that we didnt do right?  Im still not sure if TF will ever happen, earlier CFB gave an april fools response to a question about TF and if he could complete it

So the price is up. :D

So this is where we say thank you and good bye to BCNext forever.

We have the community, the drive and the perfect platform to make Nxt even better than he could have ever imagined, and so we shall. We will take this ecosystem to new heights and when they say "Who created Nxt?", the answer will not be "BCNext" but a headless creature with thousands of arms and feet, but no head: The Nxt Community! And so it begins....

Insert meme here :)

I think in the early days cfb mentioned (re)distribution.

NXT is becoming quite funny now - no disrespect just mentioning. Do you guys really buy all these stories?

I would be able to take this currency much more serious if it at least had a decimal place.  Forget "decentralized exchange", "decentralized crack houses", "whatever", where is the god damn decimal place???

Agreed.

really?BCNext.Satoshi.Come-from-Beyond  :o

So since, BCNext is a sockpuppet and Come-from-Beyond only made BCNext text paraphrase in his own words. Only two real people would exist on that paper as authors. It mean that BCNext is Satoshi sockpuppet? Or in other words, BCNext=Satoshi?

Just as much as this http://apps.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/scicache/478/scimakelatex.71170.allwelder.html

p.s. @salsacz you are going to freak out somebody man. We don't want infarcts here.

Let BCNext go to hell >:(

Is BCNext a teenager? Sounds like some idealistic bullcrap if ever I heard it.

Anyone want to buy some Nxt? I'm going on BTER right now and
trading for counterparty or something else so if this was an April Fools joke please
enlighten us quickly.

If you are selling big, evil-knievel will be happy to take them

what is the main project of BCNext.?
based on Nxt or irrelevant?

Some of my favorite quotes from this must-read paper:

"Along these same lines, we instrumented a 3-day long trace disproving that our methodology is unfounded. We use our previously analyzed results as a basis for all of these assumptions. This may or may not actually hold in reality." (p.2)

"Glad, our new application for local area networks, is the solution to all of these obstacles." (p.1) and
"Next, we present our model for confirming that Glad is impossible. Of course, this is not always the case." (p.2)

"We plan to release all of this code under write-only." (p.2)

"Our logic follows a new model: performance really matters only as long as performance takes a back seat to expected seek time. We hope that this section illuminates the work of Japanese mad scientist J. Williams." (p. 3)

i see it. ;D

so, no epic goodbye to cfb,
which is a good thing :)

No. I'm launching my own project that uses Nxt so I decided to complete some things before leaving.

To clarify, does this project use the Nxt platform or is it a fork?

Nxt as a platform.

Guys call me crazy but this is how I see NXT after being a part of it for 3 months.
The only shitty thing about NXT is its distribution. We all know that in this community, also everybody in Bitcoin world know that.
That is why is important that price is as low as possible these first months, to re-distribute as much as possible since initial distribution is flawed. This is where we can see comments from BCNext allegedly that price for him is not important.

Than we have "hot and cold" comments from CFB all the time. Sometimes in his comments he cares about NXT, sometimes it seems that he doesn't give a f**k. Why? Well 2 reasons.
First, again keep the price as low as possible to re-distribute.
Second reason, make community take its destiny in its own hands and don't rely solely on some imaginary character (BCNext) that he will come and save us all while we do nothing.

These are two main keys for NXT to succeed.
1. Redistribution.
2. Involve the community, everybody must contribute.

Two main devs (or just one dev with two different usernames) have recognized this a long time ago.

To summarize all of the above, BCNext=CFB!!

lol ;D

Makes sense as well. So we have Vitalik and CfB. Let's add the 3rd guy. What about Dan of eMunie?

Like I said in one of my previous posts, in the last 3 months many times I felt like there were mind games played with our brains. So really nothing prevents us to start playing mind games back as well!  ;D

As long as NXT is moving forward I don't mind!  :)

And Elmo  :D



Nah, lets not start that again... ;D

ha ha priceless!!  ;D

I would love to see it!! This should be something super exciting and well done!
GL with it!

+1 for implementation.  Let's see where the winding road takes us.

This makes sense.
Apparently, BCNEXT is very familiar with “Nineteen Eighty-Four”, and love it. It hints that BCNEXT come from a Communist countries of Eastern European, may be Soviet Union. I noticed that CFB has acknowledged that he is a Communists.

That is good news for Nxt, assuming your project doesn't suck  :P

what i took from reading all that is. this has been one big experiment by bcnxt or who ever he really is. we need to learn to take greed out of the equation. own personal gain as such. we need to work as a community to secure the chain and not expect rewards for doin so. Eg like pow coins rewards. we need to remeber why we are here. i personally came here to help support a movent of people who had created digital currencies to fight the powers that be lets say. i was sick to death of governments, banks and corrupt organisations that control the current monetary supplys. we need to focus on destroying these organisations which are fueld by greed. but unfortunatley the green eyed monstsr has already made it to the crypto world. we have a chance here with nxt to change this. but is it too late?

Suppose i better add to this that yes along the way the green eyed monster has had me too. Its human nature to want more than the other the guy has.

I say: if we've code, let's try it. If we'll go from just trustless, but risky, to trustless cheat-proff, it'll be quite something.

I dont give a flying fuck for BCNext's plans..

what are you talking about "greed eyed monster" and references to the human element?

Are you asserting that BCNext left due to the few but very large, and inactive whales?  Surely not...  I dont see how any facet of his experiment would address the issue, on the contrary, his experiment ENABLED human greed  if this is why he left, then the 'failure' falls 100% on BCNext for cutting off the genesis at only 73 people, thus putting huge amounts of NXT into the hands of only a few people.

TF is just a proof of concept? :(

That's why Nxt is as cheap as it is.. just wait until they finish fully implementing it :)

CFB,could give some answer or hint?

No idea.

accumulating mined hours is the first step of transparent mining 3

let’s look at forget power with different account balances:
=0.5b, every forger has 1/20 power, that is 3 times every hour;
=1m, every forger has 1/1000 power, can forge every 16 hours;
=100k, every forger has 1/10.000 power, can forge once a week;
=10k, every forger has 1/100.000 power, can forge every 69 days;
=1k, every forger has 1/100.000 power, can forge every 2 years.

if a account has 100k nxt, the account has to mine 7 days to forge a block, it isn’t a short time. And if the node crash or disconnect the network, ths account have to remine. So we should encourge forging by accumulating mined hours, not penalty.

How to accumulate the mined hours?
Before the node is closed, the node send a message containing the mined hours to genesis account. Because the nodes forging  can protect the nxt blockchain,  the fee of sending this type messages are free.

Of course different balance have different strtegy.
balance>=10m,  don’t need message at all.
balance>=1m,  when node is closed and mining hours>1, send a mined message;
balance>=100k, when node is closed and mining hours>2, send a mining message;

balance>=10k, every forger need nearly 10 to 69 day to forge a block. That is a long time, so everyday mining hours>=3, then send a message represent 1 day mining time. That is everyday need 3 hours, get 24hours mined hours. When mining to the last day, mining hours>1 ,send a mining a message.
e.g.
Account A has 10k nxt, A need mine 69 days to forge a new block. Everyday A mined 3 hours, then close the node. Image A has mined 68 days. In the 69 day, A need mining 24 hours then forge a new block. If A exit the node or other thing cause the disconnection, a mining message has been sent, so next day A can continue mining until forge a new block.

just like balance>10K, with balance below 10k, every account need more mined hours. but 2 years is a very long time for an account with 1k balance.

Good repayment are not choice, because this can cause fee too high.  But we can give lottery to these small stakholders who like forging. The most important thing is using nxt platform like AM and so on , to do something.

80% accounts hold only 20% nxts in statictics in the future, so a lot of small stakholders forging can contribute a nice random to forge, and make nxt platform running better.

nxt please pump! I have invested too much in you, my dear…

I love NXT but you guys have pulled so much stupid shit that I don't know what to think anymore. If you would get something as good as NXT going just to later refer to it as an experiment then you have basically committed crypto-creation suicide.

I would have no interest in any future projects and neither should anyone else. This would be analogous to Bill Gates saying Microsoft was just a ruse for his 'real' project. (an experiment to buy him time...)

I say this after working really hard to get behind the NXT project and recognize that my negative demeanor is ultimately not good for NXT's image but I dont' care. I don't care if I lose my entire investment, you idiots are doing irreparable damage to the work you've done.

Please define "you".

updated？

Why not updated?

Are you asking why this thread hasn't had any replies?

Most people are here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=587007.msg6629320#msg6629320


You can ask any questions about transparent forging there  ;D

http://188.138.33.10/
(red are accounts that missed their turn, blue are ones competing for Nxt block with a prediction for the time to next block)