Bitcoin Forum

For the first time since I bought my first bitcoins at about $5/ea, I don't own any. With the IRS decision, its obvious [immediate] effects and the slight dip in the price of silver, I headed over to Amagi and spent it all on junk silver (90%). It feels weird to "be out of the game" as far as owning bitcoins goes. Did I make the right decision? Has the ship sailed? Or does anybody think now is the perfect time to hop back on it?

Just got in, lol.  I can't see how crypto won't be big in 5 years.

I try to keep 1-1.25BTC and nothing more. Usually unload excess at Amagi myself on 1/10th ounce gold or junk silver. I do try to always use it when it's slightly higher than I paid for it/received it at though so I might hold excess for a day or two for it to be higher when I'm actually awake and able to spend it.

Countries are just starting to make early decisions on how to tax and/or regulate it. It could go south fast.

I'm taking a long term view for bitcoin. If it's still around in 10 years then it would most likely have been much more widely adopted than it is now. If I got in at $5 I'd be tempted to cash out too but why not hold a few coins to have some skin in the game?

Look at the fundamentals. The attention to taxation is bullish. The fact that they are addressing it says that Bitcoin has arrived and is making an impact.

Bull run isn't over.

Central banks still printing like crazy.

I think keep some BTCs is an interesting things. If the price of BTC come to "0", you still laugh and will be OK.

It sounds like you are talking purely from a speculator perspective, which is narrow-minded. Right now I don't own any bitcoins but I am far from "out of the game". Bitcoin is about its advantages and innovation, it's not a get-rich-quick scheme.

Damn OP, don't be a scaredy pants

OMG, are you serious.

5$ BTC and you're giving up now.

Its just getting started!

If I were you, I'd buy back in yesterday. This is the second crash since I've been in and its fair to say the rebound will only be bigger then last time.

250-60-1200

1200-400-4000

How can you not see this?

bitcoin all the way.

And how did he give that impression? He didn't take his BTC, convert them to fiat and set the fiat on fire... he simply switched from a highly volatile form of wealth storage to a far less volatile form of wealth storage. He also took advantage of a dip in silver prices. In fact by cashing out what he initially invested, he's showing he's not trying to 'get rich quick' or he'd hold waiting for these absurd numbers that people are predicting.

I can kind of understand cashing some out now if you bought at $5, but I am surprised that OP does not think it worth keeping just a small amount in order to keep an interest in Bitcoin.

I must admit that I cashed out a fair bit in late 2013 — much of which was bought at a similar price — but it's all too fascinating to completely abandon and I've been tending to buy back at the low points such as now.

I have spent $0.00 on any crypto, and I have close to 1 BTC worth of holdings from mining and trading alts. I have nothing to lose, but why get out of it now?

the dip in silver price is totally and completely irrelevant compared to the growth of bitcoin.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Past trends are not reliable predictions of the future.

I didn't claim it was, I said he took advantage of a dip in silver prices. He took a volatile currency and converted it into a more stable store of value.

This is what I would love to think. Same with LTC. I sold my LTC at $3.75 just before it went to $40. NEVER again will I miss out that bad (even though that sale still achieved ROI for me...)

+1
In fact it may be all you should look at. I ask myself:
Is bitcoin still the fastest, safest, and cheapest way to buy things over the network?
As long as those things are true bitcoin has a bright future, IMO.

I think you may be in the wrong forum, here try this one: http://www.banking-forum.org/

Maybe there you will find the same conventional wisdom that you seem to have. Bitcoin does not follow the rules, it breaks them or have you not realised yet?

I think you need a grip on reality. Just because something went up, dipped, went up does not mean it will continue to do so. It might, and it might bottom out. Bitcoin is not guaranteed to increase in value in the short or long-term. Thinking you'll continue to be able to buy cheap sell high buy cheap sell high is irresponsible and foolish.

Nono, I never said anything about trading, I'm talking about buying and HODLing.

For SURE BTC will be huge in the future, will there be other crypros? sure but BTC will be at the top and worth WAYYY more then it is today.

I'll bet on it and have bet on it by HODLing BTC for the long term!

Taxing bitcoins doesn't mean it is banned. It indicates the opposite. I see it as governments trying to classify bitcoin as something they can relate to. Bitcoin has higher chance of suscess than being an outlaw.

I cannot predict its value in a couple of years' time, but I see it being extremely useful in crossborder transactions. There is currently no faster or easier way to receive money form overseas, for goods sold or work done.

I am sure many more will catch on to bitcoin.

I like the discussion going on here. I just wanted to add that I cashed most of my coins out the day AFTER (kicking myself for missing it) bitcoins reached $1200-turns out that was a good decision. Although, I still held a fair amount of coins-primarily Casascius, which I've since sold-with the attitude "I'll just see what happens". So this wasn't just a snap decision. At the same time, I don't like not owning any coins-not just from a financial standpoint, but the principle of it (I "believe" in bitcoins). So, I'll probably buy a coin just to stay in the game. And I'm not taking my eyes off bitcoins-if I feel the stars align and its time to get back in, I won't hesitate.

I think silver is a safe & secure investment. Unlike gold, due to a lot industrial applications, silver should still keep most of it's value even if bitcoin really takes off.

That being said, you should listen to the above responses and keep at least a couple bitcoins.

I tend to keep most of my wealth in crypto since I love to be free of restrainsts, so I can travel around the world.

But I still own a piece of land in the jungles of Hawaii with a small cabin on it. It is my SHTF backup plan. If is fully paid off, so if I am totally wrong about cryptocurrencies, I will still survive okay.

Those stars have aligned since  the 2009 whitepaper.

Would you like to me lend you a telescope to take a look?

 :D

Crypto - yes, Bitcoin - not necessarily.

http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price
No telescope necessary. Everyone has their own idea on the future of bitcoins-and some of those are good ideas, backed by evidence. But the bottom line is that bitcoins are a FUNDAMENTALLY new "thing". Speculating on their future is, to an extent, just that.

BTC isn't a sure thing yet, it could still flop. It's a baby, most countries haven't made decisions on how to treat it. He didn't say he's never touching bitcoin again, he said he cashed out what he was holding to historically reliable storage for wealth. When we are seing 50$ per btc swings most days, I can't blame him. That's why I'm only holding around 1BTC currently, it's all I'm comfortable gambling. As more companies start accepting it and more countries start making statements or laws in it's favor the more I'll start to hold. If another company along the lines of Overstock or TigerDirect come forward soon and start accepting it, I'll probably bump up to 1.5BTC held at any moment. If Amazon or Google were to start allowing it's use for their goods and services I'd probably start holding 3-5BTC as quickly as I could.

Right now it's too volatile to count on as a vehicle for storing one's wealth.

your loss, someone's else gain in long term :), thats how world is spinning

Gold, indeed... only reason I have any gold is I've always wanted to own an ounce of gold bullion... now that my business is doing well I can finally afford to start working there 1/10 of an ounce at a time... but currently banks hold like 10 years' worth of the gold currently mined every year, they could dump it and crash gold for many years easily. Silver, it's just in too much damn stuff and while it could lose a lot of value it would rebound fairly quickly (couple of years) purely from industrial demand.

Own your own land with a cabin. Mmmmm I approve. I however don't approve of living on a massive volcano, you are crazy ;P

LOL, so was the internet, cars, air transport and medicine.... It will take a while but bitcoin is here to stay.

Nothing is a sure thing. Cyrptocurrencies might be around for the forseeable future, doesn't mean any specific one will be. Rome was a sure thing, till it fell.

Touché! But Rome, this is a little different then Rome if my history serves me correct Rome was around and fighting for hundreds of years..

If we look at it like that,BTC has a few more centuries to come before being dethroned.

If you only put your money into sure investments don't expect to actually make much money.  UNless you started with several billion/trillion, but I doubt you are a Rothschild.

Just give it all to me.  I'll do all the worrying for you.   ;D

1KiuKpHcsM7gyW6rDKxBgEJui4Y68J82rX

As an OG member, you have every right to walk away right now and I wouldn't blame you.  But I think the low 400's is a psychological floor for more people and its going to take a LOT to break that.  Most of my coin pickups are when they are in their low 400's on these "crashes", and I really don't sell them ever because I have more of a longterm buy and hold mindset.

The IRS ruling is short sighted, and I'm sure will be ammended for those who intend to use it as a currency, but you have to also remember that the IRS doesn't really care about digital currencies.  They simple aren't a big enough deal for them to care and address properly.  Most of us using small amounts for purchases between a few companies that accept them, probably aren't going to be reporting those, but as long as if you are a trader and you are reporting those gains accurately, then I don't think they will throw you in jail for tax fraud because the coins you mined and spent to by a shower curtain on overstock.

That said, a lot of good things are happening with the bitcoin ecosystem and development, and this is (at least for me) the right price to jump in to buy a few for.  Maybe just for solidarity, or maybe just because you want to "stay in the game".  None of the "bad news" has anything to do with Bitcoin directly, and you know that just as well as I do.  The short term liquidity freeze up just means cheaper prices, and there is a lot of panic happening right now, so its the best time to be greedy, I think :P.

So you sold some BTC, but will probably buy some "just to stay in the game" and you'll keep your eyes on bitcoins... That sure doesn't meet the definition of "being out"

Anyway, in or out, good luck to you.

rodeo, all those things you mentioned are FALSE

If i were you, i would buy back few coins with gained profit. Just in case : )

So why is the hashpower still rising?
Do the miners know something we don't?

silver to me is useless, just a space waster. bitcoin, i can totally send it to my peers anywhere in the world. i dont see myself getting rich in silver anyway

Profit is profit loss is loss

But well I think you should have waited longer but can always come back in if the price drops further

If you got scared in losing 5 dollars worth of  BTC then stick to watching then playing in this game, leave it for the big boys.

From those charts.. But why the hashrate is still growing exponentially? Who accelerates mining despite falling marking price and why? Who can afford to drop the price down to tubes and continue increasingly mining an petahash rates?

Well... bye. (http://arstechnica.com/civis/download/file.php?mode=view&id=28921&sid=0a07f0c21ea1d9131219f1a8bea65124)

This is going to turn into a regret thread later this year lol

with silver you could wear a very thick cuban chain on your neck. What are you gonna wear having only bitcoins? A paper chain made of paper wallet?

you can always get back in in the next few days after seeing how market reacts to china news

i dont have a use for cuban chain. im a simple guy. i wear shirt and pants. no need for bling blings

This IRS decision sux a lot ...
I am pretty sure decision is going to be changed in near future.

You will be back in the game sooner then you expected.
I wish you quick come back and all best!

Seems like a wise move, although exiting at $800 would have been better.   :P

Let's face it, the consensus is in.  The general public is not running out to buy bitcoins to prop up the price.  It is what it is.  Without the wealthy in China trying to avoid capital controls, we're likely headed back to where we were.  Around the $100 mark.  They are the sole reason for the huge run up.

Business adoption means nothing, if people don't have bitcoins to spend in their shops. They too will see there isn't much uptick in traffic, other than relying on current bitcoin holders, who prefer the mantra, "buy and hold" over "buy and spend".  So, I wouldn't expect much.

Digital currencies are here to stay, now that we've solved the double spend problem, but the poor distribution of bitcoin, will always leave it with a cap of how many people will actually own any.  Add the IRS now taxing it as property and it's blatantly clear where this is headed.  Bitcoin makes no sense for a consumer to buy and use as currency.  That's just crazy.  

The question for those who bought above $500, is do you sell now with some loss or do you panic sell at $100 and get wiped out.  Anyone not selling now, has either got balls the size of watermelons or is just in denial. The "get rich quick" gravy train ride, is over.

@lemfuture: Silver has no use for you? Your cell phone, computer, etc. might disagree. So will the increasing number of people turning to silver for a hedge against inflation.

and @zolace: seriously? Who views the current value of an investment as merely its seed? That is literally irrational. If you make a billion dollars off an investment you put $5 into would you view it/its subsequent value and risk involved in terms of that $5? Keep thinking/investing like that, big boy lol.

Ooohhh banking forum... must be a good read! I'll look for threads where they talk about bitcoins...

EDIT: That was the f*cking lamest forum I've been to...

This is quickly degrading into a flaming thread... Break out the popcorn and beer ::)

Honestly, if you jump in at the current (low) level I really think it will give you profit.

That's also the reason that I keep buying BTC instead of selling. And no, I'm not trying to attract people into Bitcoin. You should make this decision all by yourself, but that's my vision ;).

buy BTC now and hold, then cash out at the next top and you will be able to wear chains like a boss... like Mt. T!

I PITTY THE FOOL WHO SELLS NOW.
http://www.andrewkardon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mr-t.jpg

There are many things that can stop crypto - anything from Internet failure to solar flare EMP to power grid failure to quantum computer hacking. The point is that these things will stop almost everything else at the same time.

As long as things keep on rolling along as they have been, even in the face of massive inflation or the USD losing its status as world currency, crypto is the way of the future.

However, it is always good to keep scrap silver coins on hand along with a box of small-bill cash, for emergencies.

If the whole world system goes down, gold and silver will be the in-thing in the long run.

:)

I've done some trading courses in my time and I must say that where bitcoins price is now is perfectly normal, text book crash. It has fallen to just over 60% of its highest value. Check all stock crashes and this happens 'most' of the time. I believe the fundamentals could stop bitcoin from rising as sharp as it did before, but for it to be worth anything as an investment you want it to gain price slowly. It's the only way it may hold it's value. Bitcoin needs lots of trading volume to do this.

I would say the next price level should be around $750, but may not make it to that level for at least a year or so. After that it may drop back down to around $500, then after that I couldn't tell you. After most crashes there is a sideways movement for a while. I believe Bitcoin's will last for a year.

I wouldn't be selling if I held them, not yet anyway. Not sure if I would buy though, I still need to see more secure trading platforms in my country before I do that.

Bitcoin is a currency, not an investment.

Bitcoin isn't for getting rich, that's the reason the prices are so volatile... people like YOU are trying to get rich, when it peaks you sell triggering a fall in value, eventually you buy more back. We wouldn't nearly as crazy of a roller coaster on historical price charts without people like YOU trying to get RICH off of bitcoin. It's a currency, a method of exchanging perceived value... it's not a stock/bond/or other investment. People like YOU are what might someday kill bitcoin.

I'll trade my coins til sun shines, I'll cashout some when I feel too but I'll never sell all my bitcoins. Never.

I second that...

can you not read? He said he's been involved in BTC since it was worth about 5$.



Could be the regret thread for YOU too when you go "damn, that dude was smart, he got out before it hit 10 cents!". WE. DON'T. KNOW. WHAT. BITCOINS. FUTURE. WILL. BE. It's not a get rich quick thing, it's not an investment, it's a currency... stop treating it like your lottery ticket.

It could have been a currency, but as you rightly point out, the get rich quick, buy and hold mentality, turned it into a speculative commodity.  Now the IRS has labeled it based on that fact and rendered it virtually useless as a currency for average Joe's.  The parties over.  Greed did it in.

what....you don't see how powerful BTC is that's it got the world powers running scared. The more Govs try to ban, hinder and tax BTC the brighter BTC's future and the more GOVs consign themselves to irrelevance.

and they can't ban BTC. Also there will be plenty of Chinese GOV officials buy BTC. Think of them as extra loud FUD.

chinese gov joined the mining game.

2014 is the year of regulation. it was clear that this will happen and it will help BTC in the long run in my view.

Running scared?  Delusional or denial.  You pick.  

http://media.coindesk.com/2014/04/Fitch_Bitcoin_Transaction-Volumes.jpg

http://media.coindesk.com/2014/04/Fitch_Bitcoin_Currency-Comparison.jpg

worst time to get out actually. Right now i tell everybody to get in.

... well at least OP is in silver and not in fiat. He will be alright.

Yep.  Real companies are able to get involved now.  There are certainly taxation compliance issues and integrating those fixes into business models, but there's nothing but smart people working in the Bitcoin tech sector and it will be done.

A whole new sub-sector of Bitcoin is starting up: tax services!

Good idea. See "How Isaac Newton went flat broke chasing a stock bubble" at http://www.sovereignman.com/finance/how-isaac-newton-went-flat-broke-chasing-a-stock-bubble-13268/.

Will Bitcoin ever go back up? If things continue on about like they are now it will. Why? Because it is the most stable currency around, not being based on the stupidity of the central bankers.

But the real reason Bitcoin will go up is that the innovation that is Bitcoin is just starting. Mastercoin and Counterparty are building new ideas on bitcoin. And MaidSafe is exploiting some of the Bitcoin ideas in entirely grand ways.

If things continue along as they are going now, the governments of the world will eventually become Bitcoin-style, blockchain regulated and decentralized among the people. Freedom will abound. Bitcoin has just scratched the surface of the greatness it has the chance to become. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551676.msg6026390#msg6026390.

:)

True enough solid commodities will hold out fine but he did get in at 5 dollars so raking in profits never hurts
Although in my opinion he could have sold a lot more at 1k we don't know his sell prices

Agreed, market cap is still teeny weeny.

Lots of room to grow, which is nice.

Generally speaking, I think the best time to buy is when you most feel like selling. In this case, though, I think bitcoin is still significantly overvalued for an important reason.

I think it was/is a mistake to price value into bitcoin based on acceptance by governments. Bitcoin is a thorn in governments' side. I think it's here to stay, but it will always have a fringey aura about it, and it will become flat out illegal in some economically significant countries.

and finally, capitulation

That's a pretty neat chart I see its a coindesk one but can you link to the article?

http://www.coindesk.com/fitch-regulation-rob-bitcoin-low-cost-appeal/

The value is in what the people think. The more that governments infringe on peoples' rights, the more people look for freedom in other ways. Bitcoin scares government. Government moves to stall Bitcoin. People start to use Bitcoin in loads of ways that bypass governmental stalls. Government seeks to stop Internet deployment of Bitcoin. People use Maidsafe to bypass Internet altogether. Government seeks to regulate ISPs. People move into direct radio Maidsafe bypassing the ISPs.

It goes on and on because of the start that was made with Bitcoin. Government will fail because the money system will come crashing down in the near future, before they can implement final and complete controls.

The biggest thing that government has going for it is its lying politicians. They just might sway the people out of Bitcoin with lying promises of wealth and security from some other-than-Bitcoin source. If it isn't this, it will be their threats of punishment for attempting to bypass government.

The major benefit that governments will offer in the future is, the conversion from the U.S. dollar to the IMF currency. When this happens, it will all depend on what people think.

:)

buy, buy, buy  8)

Thanks for that looks like  a neat little article  ;)

I think you're a weak hand, and you do the global community a disservice by spreading your fear and cowardice here.

QFT, very well said. We're changing the way we do money on this planet.

Let me repeat that:

Cryptocurrency is a revolution in the way human beings "do money".

I can't believe how many bulls are commenting in this thread yet we are obviously in a bear market right now. I'm bullish long term but guys let's be real here, the IRS statement was treated as bearish news (regardless of your opinion, that's how the market reacted), china has pretty much banned BTC exchanges, and the mt.gox fiasco was the start of this bear market. BTC will recover, but don't say $10,000 by the end of april, it's silly.

edit : typo

without this PBOC-mess today we would not be in a bearmarket. This bearmarket is artificially kept up. BTC is oversold now for sure.

Amen!

Bitcoin is going to be a long rollercoaster ride and not everybody is going to stay on for the full duration.  Actually, it wouldn't make sense if all the early adopters stayed on because then bitcoin wouldn't work the way that it's supposed to.  For one reason or another, most will not hold onto the amount of bitcoins that they plan to for the full duration of its rise; divine hands are at work.

Bitcoin is an insurance, not a currency

lol

Capitulation generally means, bye bye bye :-)

As I don't live in the US I'm of a different opinion. I'm currently attempting arbitrage between different currency pairs - there are huge wins to be made but volume is very low, so it can be very slow - but otherwise very profitable.

Plan is to be holding fiat, making quick dumps in coins and trade back to other currency. Guerrilla trading as it were.

The IRS news is a massive headache, I don't understand how it is even feasible, how can they even allege specifics?

not if you're a falling knife catcher ;)

Any point you made almost a 100x was a good one.

I like a lot this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.0

I would rather hold at least a fraction of the BTCs, like 10-20%. We´re gonna see 4 digit numbers in the future.

Also, we´re in a local low these weeks. Not best time to sell I think.

I said on another thread and i repeat here: If i was the head of a Trust Fund/Hedgie looking to park 25 million USD on BTC, this will be my play. The thing is that im pretty sure that right now worldwide are dozens, not a handful, maybe not hundreds, but Dozens of new projects under construction that involves Cryptocurrencies. And each one is a multi-million behemoth looking to get the grip of a very small market, if we compare to traditional markets.

Shots will be fired, and they aim to remove amateurs from the field.
The day of gold diggers is off. The Age of Gold industry is on. They arrive with their laws, their expropiations and their brute force. We small guys need to step out, else we will be crushed.

But for gods sake, that doesnt mean you need to sell the gold in your pockets...

Stop mining. You cant compete with the big newborn factories under development.
Stop trading. You cant compete with the big investment rig bots.
Stop making businessese. You cant compete with big startups and his well trained outsourcing accountability to avoid taxes.

But man, stick with your BTCs. They will grant you a nice retirement.
My 2 sats, at least.

What else matters than long term? We're not day-trading pricks here, most of us.

Long term is one thing, but shorting is a fantastic way to increase your holdings. Of course, it would be risky to sell at a support line.

"Day-trading pricks"  :D

OP, I am out as well (since about 630 or so), and never thought I would.  We have our reasons - mine is that there is simply not enough security for bitcoin holders for it to be adopted by the general public (there are other reasons that concern but ones I was willing to live with - such as 30% of all bitcoins are held by some 47 or so people, and that a massive percentage of bitcoin that exists has been stolen through hackers etc.)  

One thing is for sure, we will all live with the consequences of our decisions.  OP and I have made our decisions, and those of you holding or buying will as well.   It will be fun to see how it all plays out.

Comments on the OP:

1) The problem with the "IRS pooped on BTC" argument is that it ignores innovation. There is so much quad core driven processing power out there that it wouldn't surprise me that as of RIGHT NOW, someone is working on some real time altcoin version of "Turbocoin". "Turbocoin" being some real time tax app that meets the known IRS requirements. All of us would pay $50 for an application that would poop out the current tax forms required by the IRS. Just like turbotax has a constant stream of updates, so would turbocoin. So IMHO, the "IRS pooped on BTC" is a non problem, that is to say it just created a new software market.

2) Like a junkyard dog eyeing a piece of steak, retail with their narrow margins, is waiting for some packaged, stable, altcoin payment solution. In retail shaving 1% - 3% of your costs, is a big deal. People become VP's for just shaving 0.01% in costs.

3) There are millions of people who transfer money back home and shaving 3% - 5% would be a big deal in the payment space. Business wire transfers are typically $50 and require an established account.

Taking a bite out of the $1.5 trillion dollar a year payment processor fee / money transmitting business... yeah, the Bitcoin protocol is worth every penny of that sum saved.

Once China becomes mostly marginalized from their speculating on the market, things will settle back down.....and head right on up to that $750-$825 range.  

US investors are... lurking in the wings.  ;)

And then it stabilizes and goes back up, I am watching for it to bottom and then buy.   

I'm 17+ grand in the game so i'm crossing my fingers that the price goes up lol..... i bought a few in the 700 range some in the 600 a bunch in the 500 and a bunch in the 400 so... i dunno lol this thing better shoot up :\ i got like 32.9 bitcoins

BITCOIN TO 420! THIS IS THE BEST PART. HIP HIP HURRAY FOR 420

Even if this is true, this is the number one reason, Bitcoin will fail as a currency.  Average people need to buy it and spend it.  Investors just pumping the price up means nothing toward usefulness.  It's a temporary and artificial valuation.

You will be back!
You might come again?

Leaving can be a huge mistake; This isn't all about money.
BTC is an exciting project and an amazing story.   :)

Hard to fault anybody for taking a 100x gain. Personally, I wouldn't have sold everything. I'd have kept 5-10% of my stash and checked back 5 years later.

I've cashed out the amount in fiat that I initially invested so I don't lose anything.  I'm still in the game though.

The infrastructure for that really isn't there just yet.  There are plenty of projects on the way and we'll get there, but not yet.  That's when it really takes off.

I cashed out most of my coins the day after the price was $1200. Since then I've held on to what I've had, selling some of them but spending most-and even trading for some on here. Today was just the day my account reached 0.00. Like I said though, I'm keeping my eyes on BTC...

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-ruling-may-bright-side/

there are plenty countries with massive taxes, btw, bitcoin is a bargain because those are its competitors, i mean when someone gets of bitcoin what are they betting on, that the population in this planet is a bunch of morons?

no they don't the average person hold the least wealth, the wealth is held by the few

No it isn't. We're already using the basics of this technology and have long since accepted digital transactions. The "currency" part on a mainstream level isn't a pipe dream anymore than frequent flier miles, marboro stamps, starbucks bucks or all that sort of thing. Mainstream society WILL accept bitcoin because all these VC firms and big money players are *investing in bitcoin* as a future, as a technology, as a game changer and working to solve the infrastructural problems, security scenarios, and wide scale adoption PR campaigns to lure the public toward adopting bitcoin in a fun way instead of the way things are at this moment, which is you're on your own to figure out what bitcoin is and why it's a game changer, and how/when you can/should make money with it, or that it's a financial investment and so on, or whether or not the media is doing your thinking for you.

Bitcoin isn't "down the road"...it's already here and it's successfully, wildly successfully carving out its niche. A decade from now the whole evolution of cryptocurrency could have us all just "mind rich" where we slip on google glasses and wink and suddenly have new wealth - whatever future tech grows out of it. To not invest in it because it might not be a thing is short sighted on your end and not really grasping what it is.

Investing in bitcoin as a technology and a future way of doing money is the real investment you're spending money on. As long as you see it as just another stock you can dump some money in and cash out, serving only yourself, you're going to lose til you get scared and run away...and you'll still end up using bitcoin as regularly as you use the internet in spite of yourself.

They are getting in and making it happen. In the next two years we'll be seeing bitcoin bust out of the gate on a massive adoption scale with more people buying bitcoin because it was made 10x easier and less of a learning curve than it is today.

I think so.

I guess you haven't heard of Ripple then...

If you want to fly somewhere, you can do a quick Internet search, and come up with all the regular flights between your location and destination, all listed in price order, or airline order, or how you want it listed. If there were a market for it, programmers could devise Internet apps that would search for "trade" relationships. For example. Let's say you are a Walmart worker and you wanted to buy a Hotpoint refrigerator. The app could show you all the Hotpoint refrigerators across the country, and how many Walmart work hours it would take to buy whichever one was in your preferred location.

The point is, any time we want to make Bitcoin practical, we need to do the above for Bitcoin and product comparisons rather than simply for money. When we make an app like this, both the average people and the average sales company will be happier with using Bitcoin for daily purchases. We could even make it work for something as mundane as the price of meat at the grocer.

The work is already started with the scanners and bar codes in use all over the country. While I don't know the programming for the system, I believe that it is based on DOS-like programming. A company that wanted to design and develop an app for folks to use hand-helds to check prices and pay for almost anything in the marketplace at the register, all based on the current bar code and qr code, might make a fortune selling their programming to all of the marketing industry.

Once this is done, Bitcoin prices would be updated instantly, Bitcoin as an investment would become more stable and could start its upward movement, and Bitcoin would start to become a world standard for everybody, at least in America.

:)

OP's subject should have been: "I'm Out - and hoping to buy back at a lower price."

OR he wouldn't bother to post it here.

China is out there loss let's go from here

Everyone who responded to the above quote, is totally missing the big picture.  

1.  You're under the assumption that because VC's are dumping money into a trend, it's automatically going to succeed.  How many VC's lost money in the .com bust?  VC's aren't psychic.  The just represent pools of money, large enough to take gambles on a lot of different things.  

2.  You can have all the infrastructure you want, if the value of Bitcoin is based on speculation, it will never be stable.  Thus, the majority of the general public, is not going to put money into Bitcoin, just to make purchases and certainly not as a store of value.  It's way too risky.

3.  Since the Bitcoin mantra is "buy and hold", anyone you convince to buy, is going to hold.  They aren't buying Bitcoin to make purchases.  Debit cards don't cost anything and that's why VISA and Mastercard are destroying every other payment type, by volume.

4.  You're now going to say how much merchants can benefit.  Agreed...but merchants can't make people buy Bitcoin, to save them money.  Consumers don't care if a purchase costs the merchant 3% + $0.25

5.  The poor distribution of Bitcoin, means the majority of the planet will not have access to Bitcoin.  People can't spend, what they don't have.  Again, doesn't matter how many merchants accept it.  This is why the price keeps falling, even though a boat load of merchants have come on board, since the $1200 high.  Bitcoin value is not based on merchant adoption or actual transactions.  It's based on speculation and it's killing Bitcoin, as a currency.

It has become abundantly clear to me that while the future of monetary transactions will owe a great debt to Bitcoin, it was not distributed properly, it was not promoted properly (buy and hold) and it does not scale well enough, to be all you want it to be.  At least, not all by itself.  If it survives, it will do so as part of a larger collection of digital currencies that together will form ubiquity.

Bitcoin will serve one group of the population.  Maybe Litecoin another section, Dogecoin another...and so on and so forth, until the entire planet has access to digital currency.  Currencies with better distribution models like Dogecoin and others, have a better opportunity at having a much larger share of the population as holders.  It doesn't need to be speculated to $1000 each, it just needs to be available and useful. I personally would rather have $100 in a stable currency for spending purposes, that didn't require me to deal with 0.01.  I'd rather look at 100.00.  With Bitcoin being up in the nosebleed section, it just doesn't make sense for me to buy-in and use as a currency, or as a speculative investment, knowing these overwhelming limitations.  Crypto is crypto.  Whichever one is more user friendly is the winner, because they all do the same thing.

My faith in Bitcoin is not as unshakable as it was a while back. Empty Gox and so many recent scams have shaken my belief.

Nevertheless I still have enough faith in Bitcoin to bet large on it. I am buying more now. If it falls further I will keep buying. If that means other expenses have to be slashed, then I am fine with that.

This is good, later when some one question the unfairness of early adopters, we can tell them that those early adopters have sold all of their coins  ;)

Poor Bass, He must of cried all night  :)

Surely u must have made a lot of profit. I'd also keep 10% in bitcoins in case of future price spikes.

Being out of the game is not a good thing, if we want the bitcoin revolution to success we are going to need a lot of people to participate.

In regards the IRS attack on Bitcoin, it really  sucks big time, it is part of the war against bitcoin, I would guess it will take a huge hit on the price on Bitcoin but eventually bitcoin will bounce back up, I feel that the IRS ruling will drive bitcoin underground in the USA which is not a good thing, on the positive side bitcoin is international.

Once the IRS realizes that they are driving capital out of the USA they might reconsider, but I have my doubts on that.

It is a sad situation in which you realize how much not free is the USA, but on the other hand there are even less free countries which is even worse.

One thing I have learned thanks to bitcoin, bitcoin is in indicator of economic freedom, the more a country attacks, regulates, and restricts bitcoin the less free a country is, on the other hand the countries in which appear on the bitcoin legal map as unknown are most likely the most free countries.

I it sad that I can not give any good advice in regards this situation, because on one hand I want the bitcoin revolution to succeed but on the other hand I realized that we are getting screwed by the IRS and there is very little that can be done, if we exit we lose our freedom, if we stay we could get hurt badly  financially, it is a difficult situation that sucks.

I would like to point out the in my opinion that IRS ruling it is illegal for 2 reasons, reason 1 it is a retroactive law and as such should be illegal, the other reason it destroys bitcoin fungibility which is essential for a currency to succeed, they are very much saying we will not allow a competing currency, which is itself illegal.

At this point something that should be really be considered as a high priority in the bitcoin community is to make bitcoin more anonymous without a fork if possible, that could help drive the price up since the IRS ruling is the main factor driving the price down, the other secondary factor is China.




  

relax everyone. Yesterday it went back up to just over 500 bucks a pop. It will get back up there again. There are way too many miners.

i just feel like 'being with btc',irrespective of fall or rise,is still worth it......

I'm beginning to smell fear here. And that's good!

Highlights so well the reason why so many buy high & sell when they should be buying. 

I have been thinking about it for months now to sell, and it was better if I did sell at one point, only to buy back in now.

Everybody has his own view on the market, to bail out or to jump in. Good luck to all.
For now I just keep hodling my coins, bagholding :D

Most of bitcoins are still hold. Volume of those recent trades were very small compared to all bitcoins mined.

Or you could buy a dictionary.

Bitcoin is just getting warmed up, if you see the bigger picture; man Bitcoin is just a little kid atm.

- Blockchain is getting improved, new tools aka user friendly soft-ware is inc for the Average Joe.

- Increased transactions

-Bitpay clients is increasing

-New exchanges world wide are waiting to get a lisence, that can take 1+ year to get the ''paperwork'' done.
 
As long the above things are getting better, i will buying/hodling my coins, i dont care what China does.

Also, we live in a financial system where companys needs to make money..(dhu) Look at Overstock that company is making tons of money by using Bitcoin. Its a no brainer to grasp the concept that more big boys wil jump in, just give it some time. You know those big boys are not stupid, al that new money created from Bitcoin can give there economics a new major impuls. And thats is what the world realy needs atm.

Whatchoo talkin' about fool!

whoaa... calm down BA, it is PITY not PITTY you great nit.

DrTrix (shouldn't it be DrTricks?, maybe DrDicks?) was right, 5 fiat paper stars for him. weee!

Yeah, weaker hands are folding and believers stay in game. Not everyone is in this for the money, or only for the money. I believe in the movement. Trusting math more than human character.

Same here...but there's nothing wrong with taking advantage of the panic sellers on the way up!  ;D

I'm All In
People who cannot afford to buy more have a great chance to earn BTC.
Right now: If you price your products and services in fiat (and accept BTC), then you are getting more than 2x the amount of BTC compared to recent history.

The only reason anyone would use bitcoin over a credit card or paypal is for tax evasion. For the average consumer, credit cards provide so many advantages that bitcoin really isn't competitive.

Please, tell me more!

Do you mean criminal interest rates?
Do you mean absurd charges, surcharges, convenience charges, annual fees, international fees etc?

considering your handle is infofront you seem a litle behind?

You exclude some information that is very pertinent:

For producers/vendors/merchants, Bitcoin is already supremely sweet.

Credit cards have a confirmation time of well over a month! CC Chargeback rates are increasing.

That chart is already out of date.

M0 money supply is $3.8T now and rising faster every day. The fact that M0 is doubling every few years inevitably means that BTC will go up in dollar terms. Remember M0 was ~$0.7T in 2008...

I spend tens of thousands on credit cards yearly, and don't pay any of those things except international fees if I leave the US. As for interest, I've never paid any, since I pay off my bill every month, so I wouldn't know much about the interest rates.
Also, I get 1+% back on all my transactions, transactions are instant, and I'm protected from fraud. With bitcoin, there's an enormous risk of being scammed, the software is clunky, I have to wait hours for a few transaction confirmations, and my bitcoins can be stolen fairly easily.

In response to rocks (nice chart)
so how much will btc if nothing happends (and inflation just happens regular)
would it go up a lot by itself just because dollar loses
or will it still need adoption to become big?

It doesn't matter what's more convenient for the producers/vendors/merchants. The consumers will use what is most beneficial to them, and the rest will be forced to play along.
All my credit card purchases appear to happen instantly and seemlessly to the consumer. Bitcoin transactions take hours to verify, which is painfully obvious when moving money around.

You don't get 1% back, you pay 2-4% more. Where do you think that 1% comes from? From the fee the merchant is charged. How do you think the merchant deals with that fee? They mark their prices up to include the fee.

Congrats, smart move. Dont let the Btc cultists get you down.

i've done something similar to you but with around 60%, not totally out. Cashed in profits and bought up metals on the cheap, and other miscellaneous goods.

Besides, you could always get back in if you feel a bubble around the corner.

If you purchase something in bitcoin, there's a 2-4% fee tacked on as well. Try to buy something in bitcoin at tigerdirect for instance. Look at the fiat price and then compare it to their BTC price, converted to fiat.

Yes because a miniscule fraction of their customers pay with BTC, I refund most of the difference to my customers via store credit. http://www.gyft.com does it via points.

Not to mention the fees turning paper to btc at the exchanges, or premiums at places like local bitcoins are outrageous. It's a total lie/scam that btc is fee-free, its just what the Pumpers propagandize.

For online payments where consumers pay and the vendor ships out, bitcoin wins hands down. You can not argue this.

It will be trivial to implement an instant confirmation layer atop bitcoin, I'm sure Lloyds of london will be happy to provide the insurance to cover the confirmation time.

Besides that, what do you mean "moving money around"? Bitcoin is the fastes for this, the only other option is bank transfer and that takes longer.  Credit cards cannot be used for large money moves, simply because one party risks loss though chargeback.

Tell me, just how much money have you lost on dips of bitcoin... I smell someone bitter over losing money trying ot get rich quick.

Exchanging to fiat isn't a function of BTC, it's what people choose to do. I have yet to convert any fraction of a bitcoin I've been paid with via my business to fiat. It's all been used to purchase things for the business with a small bit held in reserve.

As far as paying a fee to turn fiat into BTC... I've bought a fair deal of BTC, never paid a cent.

I don't like having to put in all my personal information to make small purchases online from different websites.  Not only is it time consuming but it's annoying having to keep up with all the passwords and stressful wondering about who still holds my personal info.  This is why Amazon holds such a monopoly on online purchases because one website is all I have to deal with.  With bitcoins however, I would be able to buy more things from more different places without entering into a commitment just to make a single purchase from a single web store.  Pick and add item to cart, entering shipping info, send bitcoins, and done; and if the site gets hacked, then no problem.

I know a lot of people, typically older people, who still refuse to buy items online because they do not want to enter their credit card info; bitcoin solves this.

Replying so that I can revive this in 1-2 years...  :)

Buying a $500 item for only $5?  That's not an advantage?  It is to me.

And I would use ANYTHING before PayPal.

And if all the vendors started giving you a 3% discount for using Bitcoin?

Bitcoin enables vendors to offer the same "cash discounts" as done with cash transactions. The two gas stations closest to me offer a "credit" price and a "cash" price. The cash price is cheaper. If more people use bitcoin, we will see vendors do the same and offer discounted prices in BTC.

The thing to remember is the wording is all marketing spin. These gas stations are not offering a "cash discount", they are really charging a "credit surcharge". But people don't like to pay extra surcharges, so marketing just calls the real price a discount.

This reminds me of what happened when coke tried to enable vending machines to charge different prices depending on the temperature. What they really tried to do was raise the price on hot days and charge more, but that turned people off. So instead the vending machines were programmed to say the new higher price was the real price and on colder days you received a discount (back to the regular price).

People like discounts, they hate surcharges. The key for bitcoin is to expose how everything else prices in a surcharge, but bitcoin offers a discount.

to all people who feel this way you need to see how the big mining data centers are going to slam the price until they feel like they can trust each other to form price control agreements like OPEC, London Gold Fix, etc

that might not happen until the next block halving

http://bitcoinclock.com/

you have about 2 years to wait before you 'get left behind' in any price skyrocketing

I used to think that was a main indicator as well until I learned about stepping back and seeing that the increase in M0 is barely filling in the vacuum of credit destruction.
That is why the fed can print crazy money and we still do not see as much inflation as one might think

velocity is also a main factor for prices but until you see interest rates rise (which is designed to take purchasing activity away from cash holders) the lack of credit is still being infused with printing

AGreed ...does it deliver the functionality that people want

Of course it does ....peopel who have used it ...love it

12 months and it will be awesome

Is BTC an exploding bubble, or...
A once in a lifetime growth opportunity?

I am with you Info... BTC is great and all but it isn't the be-all end all for using to make purchases.

People want believe that BTC is "great" for merchant due to no charge backs etc... but these same features make it difficult for consumers to use AND it makes theft/scams even easier.  What will happen is the credit card companies (or something similar) will start to process and insure BTC transactions so they can be instantaneous just like CC purchases.  Guess what will happen?  Similar fees just like CC transaction will be charged, hopefully a bit less though.

Good for large purchases?  Yeah I can see that, faster and less expensive then wire transfers, mailing a check... a check?... no one uses those but that is basically what a BTC is, just a bit faster and with the times.

To those that think using BTC will "save them time" shopping online and relieving the difficult job of remembering accounts... is honestly just silly.  I have made purchases at sites where you don't have to create an account and guess what... the only extra info you need to give them is a password.  They have to collect all the info anyways, like where to ship, email for updates notifications etc.  I suppose if you were purchase digital or non-deliverable items it could save typing your name and address (oh the horror).

As I said what will happen with BTC and normal buying is the same thing that is happening with CC/banks, people will have apps on their phone and will scan codes/bump etc to transfer funds.  It will be cheaper until either the Feds get to regulating or the big corps come in like the CC companies and decide they should charge the same they always have.

That's our exact thoughts at coinpal.net, and thats why with our exchange when we launch we will be dedicating a lot of time to trying to get 'your average Joe' in to crypto-trading. It's easier said than done but I believe with the exchange we have to offer and all it's speciality add ons as well as our skilled team, we can certainly try to help with mass awareness of the crypto currency.

It is very hard to say but I respect your decision even If don't fully agree with selling all the coins you got.  Who knows it could be a great call or maybe not time will tell either way I like that you got alot of silver and hope it works out for you one way or another.

"Papercoin" could be built on top of bitcoin. Like if bitcoin is gold, the "papercoin" - is like paper money. "Papercoin" transactions could be fast and insured at bitcoin exchanges, etc.

Try compare with bank wires for moving money around...

Bitcoin is just proof-of-concept.  We're already seen better tech, with better options coming online.  Over the next 5 years, we'll continue to see an explosion of next gen. cryptocurrency options that will put the blockchain to shame.  That's just the way technology goes and since Bitcoin doesn't have enough developers dedicated to the core, there's no way Bitcoin is going to be able to keep up.  People are too busy making money off Bitcoin to care about the core.

More ass talk.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/does-bitcoin-have-a-future--marc-andreessen-thinks-so-141613056.html


Where there is millions of $, then there are developers.

BS, the whole post you made are 100% wrong. Typical guy who thinks that he missed the train.

the history of technology shows that not always the best technology finds its way to mass adoption. we are still driving around in cars with combustion engines invented 2 centuries ago.

As a person who bought around $5 and then sold a fair chunk the day after $1200 Im sure the OP has his fair share of wealth. Nobody knows his age or other circumstances so its impossible to really see it from OP perspective. If hes a young 20 something then I would probably say fuck it don't sell at low $400's not after riding the waves already and making a tidy profit. However if OP is later in life with dependents then depending on the amount of wealth bitcoin has given him then he could live out the rest of his life very comfortably and not leave his dependents with a volatile beta experiment to deal with...

Yup and the only reason we are still driving round in ICE cars is that the big businesses pretty much stamp out any attempt to use the better technology. In the early 1900's there were more electric cars on the road then ICE cars.

So you're actually advocating that everyone who bought the majority of their bitcoin at $5 should now sell it all at ~$450 and not keep even a tiny fraction of it just to keep an interest?

Personally I couldn't do it, I need to retain at least a small amount to feel I am part of it. I was willing to sacrifice a small amount of a larger profit for that.

Or is it the buying back lower bit that you disagree with?

Well most people who were in bitcoin from the start (<20$ dollar prices) will have sold a big part of their coins during the peaks.

Sounds like JP Morgan new product presentation ... wow what a meeting ... now serious that's why I support any educational book about bitcoin ecosystem from the core protocol, to pools concepts from cryptology to economy it could have a entire textbooks series ...

Yes, I completely agree with you.

What really matters is M3 supply. It was the rapid M3 growth we had prior to the meltdown that caused price inflation.

What we are seeing today is M0 supply simply "catching up" to prior M3 credit growth. Essentially as everyone leveraged themselves the M3 to M0 ratio was stretched too thin, and there are only two solutions:

1) The market is forced to reduce leverage back normal levels through defaults. This brings prices back down to what they were before the unsustainable credit growth started. This has the effect of punishing those who took bad risks and also rewards those who were prudent and saved.

2) The government reduces leverage back to normal levels by printing M0 to bring it back in line with elevated M3. This causes prices to stay where they are while the real economy reduces. This has the effect of punishing those who were prudent and saved while rewarding those who took bad risks.

This is why printing M0 is bad. It is not that inflation will happen (because it already has). Printing M0 to "fix" things is bad because it rewards the wrong behavior while punishing the right behavior.

Good move but why silver?

Warehouse better investment , next bubble is in warehouses

   metals are risky- a new technology could find a way to turn coal into gold or silver and value would plummet overnight.

  I know bitcoin is risky too but hopefully you sold to someone who believes in bitcoin and will use it for good.

yes moral hazard was thrown out the window.. you can see the haves and have nots in the industries that can tap into government spending of these printed dollars while the regular private sectors circle the drain on the stalled economy

and on top of that the ones that can grab the ZIRP free money loans pushed that hot money into anything with high risk high reward since servicing the debt is meaningless (long timeline for the gamble)

with high interest rates, one has to get quicker returns on their gambles

lmao