Bitcoin Forum

The traditional banking system failed but then a messiah in person of Satoshi Nakamoto came up with an idea, a great innovation that helped revolutionised the way we think about money and birthed decentralization thereby introducing an alternative to the third party system the banks operates with and made people understand that they can be their own bank, with Bitcoin.

However critics and those who are too anxious to know who the anonymous creator of the great innovation Bitcoin is have been coming up with different conspiracy theories, things like.

- That whales are manipulating and determining the price of Bitcoin, whereas the price of Bitcoin is controlled by demand/supply.
- Bitcoin being a ponzi scheme created by a group of people in the CIA.
- That the mining of Bitcoin is nothing but a waste of energy.
- That Bitcoin was created as a tool by elites for money laundering.
- Satoshi being link to different names that were never true including Jeffery Epstein that was recently linked and claimed to be the true identity behind the name Satoshi Nakamoto.
- That Bitcoin was created by the illuminati to have control of the monetary system around the globe.
- The most surprising is that Bitcoin is an alien technology, which is cause it's blockchain is very difficult to be hacked.

These are the conspiracy theories i've heard about Bitcoin, but then Bitcoin is still thriving and becoming more valuable as the year goes, i believe that all these are just false claims to discourage people from buying Bitcoin however Bitcoin is the future and those who're wise enough to understand that have embraced it. You must have heard some false claims about Bitcoin, feel free to discuss about it.

Whales are also part of the forces of demand and supply so they have some strength in affecting price. Not really a conspiracy.

This should be Fiat not Bitcoin.

Absurd but will make a good movie.

Pretty much every single point is a waste of time reading to any body who knows even only 25 percent of how Bitcoin works.  Bitcoin was NOT perfect from the start and is still not perfect.  In fact, any body who looks up a list of vulnerabilities Bitcoin ever had finds out it in fact had them particularly in the beginning.  If 'aliens' made it then they are not as good as some people believe.

Also.  It can be CIA, aliens or even Epstein.  Yes I hate Epstein but if he took part in creating Bitcoin it would be extremely stupid to give up Bitcoin only for this particular reason.  A lot of inventions were made by not so good people.  We are still using them because we care about the technology or the invention, not about who was behind it unless there was a reason they invented it.  For example.  Look how the person who invented the vaginal speculum came up with the idea and tested it out.  Yet an ob gyn visit usually means the usage of it because it is useful ultimately.  And yes I found this example by quickly googling it up as I had none in my mind.

People do not learn any thing about Bitcoin and then share their strong opinions on it that can not be contested by any body else because they believe they know it all.  At the end of the day they only seem stupid to the rest who knows how it functions.  Call it a Ponzi scheme and I immediately know they have no idea what they are talking about.  At that point yes.  They look stupid.

Not the first time that we have heard this kind of conspiracies on Bitcoin:

This is what happens when people....... (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5565712.0/)
Bitcoin from Devil or from God? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5097567.0)
Bitcoin conspiracy theories (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=387978.0) as early as 2013

Just read Bitcoin's white paper here: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf. To understand who created Bitcoin, his inspiration (clue, it's not an alien).

I wouldnt exactly call this a conspiracy theory, because at least its partly true.  You said it yourself, the price is determined by supply and demand, so when whales dump large amounts of Bitcoin, it is felt across the entire market.


I have never actually heard of that one. Thats just silly.

A lot of these conspiracy theories came from critics and ,"those who are anxious to know" come from misunderstanding how Bitcoin actually works. Whales influencing price isn’t a conspiracy, it’s just how markets behave. As for CIA, aliens or Epstein being Satoshi, those are just theories with no real evidence. If you read the whitepaper and early discussions in this Bitcointalk forum, it’s clear Bitcoin came from someone deeply involved in cryptography and the cypherpunk movement not some secret global agency.

It is true that bitcoin isn't perfect that's why there are other crypto made to have the feature that Bitcoin hasn't hence why there are more than one alternative crypto for Bitcoin. About the other things, maybe they are doing this to make Bitcoin decrease it's value or doing something to hype or spreading FUD especially when there are whales selling their funds that isn't very small. I also agree with you there that it's not about who created the Bitcoin but how it helped many people because of it's usefulness.

There is no second thought about it, this conspiracy theories are actually there to help spread FUD by the haters, many will say it is a most probably a clear make of misunderstanding bitcoin and I have actually argued in the past that most people who spread this misinformation or rather conspiracy are mostly aware that bitcoin isn’t any of the above mentioned things. That’s why you see virtually almost everything controversial been liken to bitcoin founder Satoshi, just to ridicule him.

The reason why i seriously will fail to understand that this conspiracy are actually coming from people who do not understand bitcoin is because most of them are usually just too knowledgeable not to see that the controversy are actually fake.

It’s a very long running ponzi scheme then.
Is that really a conspiracy or an opinion? How is bitcoin mining a waste of energy when this energy is being used to run bitcoin which allows people to use it all over the world.
Bitcoin used to be alien because not everyone was familiar but now we can say we have evolved to its level ;D

This will forever be my favorite. The Illuminati family, after orchestrating the creation of a central banking cartel that has full protection of competition from the State, but no supervision from the State, figured out that having infinite power and money by having a money printer was bad, and thought an alternative which wouldn't enslave the people. It definitely makes sense to give up all your power like that!

We have to make peace with the fact that bitcoin being misunderstood and attacked by ignorant people is a very valid indication that it possesses some great value. Value attracts propaganda various form of attacks and it is a normal thing. People are free to continue speculating and lying about what they do not truly understand, neither are they making any efforts to know more about it nor benefit from it. Peter Schiff is the biggest moron of them all who have remained staunch in his critics and not wanted to be honest to himself even for once and accept the truth about bitcoin.

Sensible people like JP Morgan, Mike Saylor, and even BlackRock CEO has said wrong things about bitcoin in the past and we can believe it is out of ignorance since they openly agreed they are wrong and are now into bitcoin. Take it or leave it, their naysays does indirect marketing for bitcoin and its cool. I don't even waste time arguing with anyone spreading misinformation about bitcoin anymore since bitcoin itself continues to prove them wrong.

I fail to understand why you regurgitate such silly conspiracy nonsense here. Many conspiracy theories have been presented in this forum in the past, one crazier than the other, discussed (if even necessary) and probably all debunked as some nonsense, FUD or attention seeking bs.

Your motive is likely hunting for merits, isn't it? Waste of time with such nonsense...

People like you are too quick to judge and condemn others, I never asked you for merits or asked anyone to give me merits. Wait a minute,  do you mean that anyone who creates a post to try educate others is hunting merits? Come off it dear,  I don't know why you're pissed or pained but please get a life.

What may seems as nonsense to you might make sense to others, in every nonsense there's a sense, just pick the information you need and disregard the bullshit and if you don't find it interesting, move on. Your opinion is not necessary and you're not better than those who gave their opinions peacefully with harsh comments, I would've said fuck off but then I'm more matured than that dear.

What’s the wildest Bitcoin conspiracy you’ve heard? eipstein ?

I find it hard to believe that Epstein would be linked to the creation of Bitcoin. These kind of people thrive in using fiat.

to be fair i dont think people really care as long as they are making money or there is money to be made people will still invest. the key word is theories people spread miss information around so we dont really know if there actually true or false. i personally have heard some lately with all the things in the new and bitcoin took a dip from it but im sure once people forget it will gain traction again.

It's true there was FUD regarding Epstein and the Bitcoin creation connection. I have done a little search about that to know the real story. Then I find a news article from a mainstream native newspaper regarding this matter. After reading the full article, I eventually realised there is no Bitcoin creation connection with Epstein. Means the rumours were false and it was just FUD.

It's possible Epstein invested in Bitcoin; anyone could be Bitcoin investors either a criminal or a decent person. Doesn't mean they have a connection with Bitcoin creation at all. I don't know why or who tried to FUD Bitcoin, but we will overcome this FUD very soon. Then everyone will regret who hasn't been taking advantage of the dump.

Back then, information used to be as important as money but today misinformation is a big investment that people makes momey from and I think this generation has lost it all. Why would anyone sit in the corners of their home with phone and be spreading misinformation, to crown how foolish we have become, we digest any information we see on the internet whether it's wrong or it's accurate information, I get piece off when I see this Eipstein information on the internet.

Where was he all this while? This same Eipstein became an interesting topic when it was found that Donald Trump was involved into shady deals back then. Why is it trending now if not for agenda that people are pushing. If we have respected Satoshi for years, it's going to be ridiculous to say creator of Bitcoin is a sex offender. If Eipstein was a good guy and had the opportunity to create something big as Bitcoin, I'm not sure if he was going to follow some of his dirty path.

One of the most popular beliefs among critics is that the Bitcoin price will drop to zero. Some of the have predicted several times of the death of Bitcoin several times. These false narratives might be why some people are avoiding Bitcoin. A few minutes' search online will educate people and show them that most of these conspiracy theories are fake. Some religious organisations forbid members from owning Bitcoin because of the perceived connection with illuminati.  Those who believe all this news are ignorant.

such theories will always pop up.. and affect the weak minds in the space ;D it's inevitable + it makes good taglines for phishing peeps / views.

Bitcoin is open source, who cares who created it? If you don't like it, you are free to ignore it. That's the beauty of bitcoin. You may not know anything about satoshi nakamoto's real identity but you can know everything about the code he created. Just read it and make sense out of it. It is out there, available to everybody. If you think you are not capable of understanding it because you don't know how to code, you don't need to worry. Use your favorite AI app and it will explain what bitcoin code does like you are 5.

Still though, I somehow believe that these conspiracy theories are good for bitcoin. The more people come up with these crazy ideas, the more people talk about bitcoin and bitcoin's popularity rises even more.

Many of these “conspiracy theories” appear in every new technology cycle. Whales influencing short-term price action is not unique to Bitcoin, it exists in all markets with liquidity concentration. That doesn’t mean the system itself is controlled, only that markets are emotional in the short term. What makes Bitcoin different is that the rules are transparent and verifiable. Supply, issuance and validation are not hidden behind institutions. Ironically, the fact that people can’t easily identify a single controlling entity is what fuels many of these theories in the first place.

What couldn't stop Bitcoin from existence would eventually make it more popular, i think smart people would take their time to do some findings about those false narratives and eventually get to embrace Bitcoin when they figure out the claims are wrong whereas Bitcoin has more to offer than false theories, you're right afterall.

Unfortunately, these theories are not new but surprisingly is the one of being linked it to Jeffery Epstein this is really new and I guess even at death, people are still giving credit of a technology that has been adjudged to be one of a kind to someone who it was not written anywhere can do the least amount of coding. I think out of all the most ridiculous claim we would hear or read about, this one tops it.

Bitcoin will continue to lead world as global fashion, even as secret stories, including secret stories about links to CIA and Jeffrey Epstein to even more strange ideas of space technology, become even weirder versions of themselves. On one hand, haters call it scam or nature ruin. On other, however, according to real information, more than 55 percent of mining is already running on green energy and the clearness of blockchain has in fact allowed law enforcement to get back over 12 billion dollars in stolen funds.

I believe that mystery behind Satoshi Nakamoto is actually best feature of Bitcoin; hiding name made sure that there is no single point of breakdown in network and that it cannot be stopped or ordered by individual or government. After all, Bitcoin is not worthless as it is math based fair and very rare item that has stood up to seventeen years of attacks and shows that haters are so busy with question of who has created it that they are not paying enough attention to fact that rules work.

The conspiracy theory that I found most appealing is that Bitcoin was created by aliens. These people truly have vivid imaginations, when they can't face reality they resort to fabricating stories far removed from it.

The mere invention of the theory that Bitcoin was made by aliens indicates, firstly: their inability to understand Bitcoin, and secondly: it indicates their recognition of the extent of Bitcoin’s power, to the point that they believe it is not made by ordinary humans.

Regardless of all the conspiracy theories, and regardless of who actually created Bitcoin or who is behind it, I will remain committed to Bitcoin, and Bitcoin will continue to be the most beautiful and powerful invention of this era.

This part is most interesting and important for me because I also have few theories about Bitcoin, but now all cleared with I am trying to teach my kids about this as well because they needed to understand this bitcoin bring financial world on another level this is big change.
Recently they are doing hypocrisy with this and trying to manipulate things but still it's going to be stayed with own rules this is always best thing regarding Bitcoin no doubt about this Bitcoin is one of the wonders allow millions to improve their lives and have positive changes which were not possible or easy through old system which was controlled by few peoples for their own interest.

Many people mention positive conspiracies about Bitcoin. Which are based on logic and assumptions. Many people think that Bitcoin will become the reserve currency of the whole world . Although one or two countries are holding Bitcoin. To become the reserve currency of the whole world, it will need universal acceptance, which has not been created yet. but  it is possible as need huge time. But another thing is that some also think that Bitcoin was created by Satoshi Nakamoto who was come from the future. Which is rumors. Because there is no truth or logic behind it. This kind of conspiracy about Bitcoin has from long time ago
.

You are wrong about the "ponzi scheme" BS. Ponzi schemes work in a different way. Bitcoin is supposed to be a "pump-and-dump" scheme.
How are the elites money laundering since the transactions on the BTC blockchain are transparent and all centralized crypto exchanges have imposed KYC/AML policies?
BTC mining is a "waste or energy" but Bitcoin somewhat still has value?
The idea of Satoshi being Jeffrey Epstein is the dumbest thing I've heard about Bitcoin.
The illuminati don't exist(or maybe they do exist) and Bitcoin definitely isn't helping them to gain control over the fiat monetary system.
The fiat system is still way stronger than the crypto world. Maybe the illuminati are controlling the fiat monetary system, not the crypto industry. BTC being made by aliens is a joke.

When people can't control you, they will always come up with an allegations just to scare people away from you, and that's exactly what happened to Bitcoin by government and the central bank authorities, coming up with fake theories that were never true about what Bitcoin represents. And I can remember when Bitcoin started becoming popular in my region far back in 2017, how many people thought it was a scam, and scared away from it, and even myself, but now regretting today. And likewise so has every bear period also create a panic in the minds of Bitcoin investors. So it's literally not new anymore

While some people are creating conspiracy theories and others are believing it, the smart ones are benefiting from Bitcoin profits, I don't worry myself about these theories since I can buy Bitcoin as an asset and I'm seeing it practically reaching ATH. As long as there is no concrete proofs about these theories I don't care whatever they conspire to mislead those that are not ready to take advantage of the privacy and freedom including profit of Bitcoin. I've always known that any technology that wows people they will form some conspiracy theories about it, how come planes will defy gravity? How come I'll be here and discussing live with somebody in another country? How come a decentralized digital currency with limited supply?

Yep. It's all mostly noise. But people are people - they love to speculate, be it price or something like conspiracies..

Many people made negative attitude towards Bitcoin in the past, but today many of them have moved away from those thoughts. Because they now understand that their conspiracies or false information had no basis, but the reality of Bitcoin has become clearer. They are now focusing more on how to increase their investment instead of paying attention to the negative comments about Bitcoin. The conspirators have definitely faced losses today, but they are also feeling the big mistake they made. Although I was a little late in getting information about Bitcoin, I have had a positive attitude towards it since I learned about it. I certainly expect to be more profitable from Bitcoin in the future.

I have never given importance to the real potential of Bitcoin, not stories. There was no freedom in financial transactions in the world. But since the advent of Bitcoin, we have found that freedom. The demand for a certain number of Bitcoins is increasing and this trend will continue in the future. As a result, Bitcoin is sure to gain more importance in the future. Bitcoin is a reliable solution for those who are interested in their financial security.

I personally 100% believe in bitcoin and since the beginning of learning why and why bitcoin was created does not make conspiracy theory theory as one of the things that must be believed. But honestly I like conspiracy theories because they are good for entertainment and seeing things from a different perspective.

The Bitcoin community should not be affected by things like that, I am sure that the foundation, background and purpose of creating Bitcoin will strengthen one's stance. Except for those who from the start tried to lead the Bitcoin narrative in a negative direction, it would be easy to believe in wild theories.

I doubt that those who are already involved and familiar with bitcoin, and who have a positive attitude toward it, will change their view because of attempts to damage its reputation. And those who are focused on searching for negativity about bitcoin will simply reinforce their own beliefs. In general, I tend to be open to various conspiracy theories, and I also believe that bitcoin did grow to such  its own, because someone very influential needed it for their own, possibly dirty plans. And I clearly understand that I personally won’t be able to influence those plans in any way. So the best option is to try to benefit from it while such an opportunity exists.

From what I have seen in life every good thing has oppositions and am not particularly surprised about different people coming up with different theories and negative comments about Bitcoin, this is because every good thing that solves problems and render help to humanity has been always accompanied by critics. Infact to a large extent those who has been against Bitcoin by talking against it has been somehow made Bitcoin more popular to me.


I don't know why people are trying to Link the Anonymous founder of Bitcoin to different persons and even to organizations like the CIA to me this doesn't make sense to me, the founder has created something that is working and helping to solve a problem by giving individual the right to fully control their money this is more important to me than anything else, trying to know the founder of Bitcoin is not important at this stage in time.

This held true in the past but not anymore. In the future it is likely to be organizations with large bitcoin holding who would wield such power. 

Well, I see why people would believe this because it happened in the past and maybe it is still happening. Ever heard of mixing?

Hmmm... wonder what members of illuminati would think ; ???

Although the whale-manipulating effect has lost its power, they are still doing everything they can by influencing the market.  Affecting the market sentiment is their goal to make the market favorable to them.


This is a common misconception; people who hates Bitcoin create propaganda to make Bitcoin a tool for criminals.


I also wonder about this thing.  Anyway, these are all rumors, people who are into sci-fi and conspiracy theory often have this kind of theory.  ;D

Actually the whales has a bigger roles in the market price of the bitcoin there is really huge impact when it comes they made transactions with the market now include this with the large instutitions who are holding bunch of the bitcoin and if they make move such as a huge selling pressure is they create a market manipulation only if they dump the market just to bought the price of the bitcoin at the lowest price again. Bitcoin already faces a lot of bad impressions with the community because of previously used in an illegal way but seems into these recent times peoples perspective changes into a good way because they are now seeing the bitcoin in a fact of way for efficient transaction and investment.


Among the listed seems this is one of the way too advance when is the alien wanted to avoid the banks lol.

Conspiracy theory are just theory, It has no proof therefore just random guess, could even be a shower thought of some people repeated again and again mostly coming from uninformed people who haven't care enough to know about bitcoin.
Mind you someone like Michael Saylor was pretty much against bitcoin in the past and after knowing the underlying technology, he has no hesitation to put billions and billions of money.It's just matter of whether you understand bitcoin enough or just guessing.

Both of these things are true.



Bitcoin being created by a US agency e.g. the CIA or the NSA is thus far the most plausible theory. That doesn't mean it was created as a "Ponzi scheme". It was probably created as a honey pot, or maybe just a somebody's side project.


Absolutely true. PoW and decentralization are no longer necessary now that digital currency is 100% legal. It's the same reason Apple Music and Spotify don't use a decentralized architecture like Napster had to. PoW is a waste of energy and thousands of cryptos no longer use it and they do exactly what Bitcoin does.


It was not created for that reason, no. It is sometimes used that way, yes.

(The rest on the list aren't even worth commenting on :)).

Sometime critics aren't really critic, some just trying to make clout.

Many of these conspiracy theories about bitcoin can easily be debunked but the problem is, nobody bother to change their stance and their opinion which is hostile against bitcoin because they don't like to be wrong.

That'd be stupid because blockchain is transparent, anything you do is recorded forever

The energy is required to keep the blockchain safe and secure. It's far more useful than using the energy for AI to generate the same answer for the same question over and over again.
If we are talking about technology conservation. A wikipedia is million times more efficient than AI to save the energy and all those traditional finance shouldn't be using tons of energy to run data center.

I don't bother seeing the other theories because most of them are pretty silly.

If I were an intelligence agency, I would rather push a digital currency that is not truly decentralized. Something like Ethereum, with infinite supply. Also, I would not create bitcoin with privacy features to opt-in to. I would rather make it impossible to escape the chain analysis. A more plausible theory is that just enthusiasts created it, with all the academic work (digital signatures, hashcash) in mind.

Laws are letters written on a piece of paper. Laws can change. Laws also promised 1:1 parity with gold, until they didn't.

If you were some hacker working at the NSA you would... do whatever you felt like doing that day. Those "enthusiast(s)" were just like any enthusiast(s), except that they worked for the US government, which explains why they weren't able to sell even a single sat.

There's no direct evidence of this or any other theory, but this is the only one I've ever heard that is consistent with reality and human nature.

And Trump did say that he was going to pay off the US national debt with Bitcoin... :)



I know, right? They changed the law taking the US dollar off of the gold standard just recently in [checks notes].. 1933. So who knows, maybe in another 93 years things might be different again. :)

Trump's voting base has given him essentially dictatorial powers at this point: he can do anything he wants and they will keep supporting him, regardless of any US laws he violates. It's very telling therefore, that he is not messing with the basic structures of the US markets, like basic securities laws, and the essential structure of the Fed and the US money supply. Why? Because if he even thought about it the markets would nose dive, and his political support would vanish.

In other words, if they suddenly made it legal for corporations to issue additional shares without informing stockholders (i.e. commit criminal fraud), then every single investor in the world would bail out of stocks in milliseconds, and the market would crash, and everybody would lose their retirement savings, and the party that did this would be politically incinerated.

If Trump even hinted at making Bitcoin illegal, then the price of Bitcoin would crash and it would clearly be Trump's fault, which would be highly undesirable, politically. Trump's massive support from the crypto industry would vanish overnight. (Although to be fair, the crypto industry is extreme pro-Trump and extreme anti-Democrat, which isn't very wise, so you could make the case that if Democrats win the White House again they may well make Bitcoin illegal since today Bitcoin is so deeply associated with Trump).

So there's probably a 0.001% chance that they will effectively make stocks non-viable by failing to enforce laws against fraud, but probably a 10% chance Bitcoin could be made illegal again in the future. Without mainstream investors, Bitcoin would drop back down to the levels it was when it was illegal, e.g. $0.01 per coin. I mean, sure, technically speaking the Bitcoin network would probably "survive" in the same way child porn networks "survive" today, but governments could make it extremely difficult and dangerous to possess.

The only reason, in other words, that Bitcoin's price is more than $0.01 is that it's perfectly legal to purchase and hold in the USA and elsewhere. If that law changed, Bitcoin would be essentially worthless.

So if you are truly concerned about US laws suddenly changing, Bitcoin is surely the last thing you'd ever want to hold...

All of these accusations against Bitcoin have long been debunked because they lack solid evidence and cannot be proven, making them empty accusations designed to bring down Bitcoin.

Thus, these accusations will ultimately only be believed by those who are already skeptical of Bitcoin, and will gradually be forgotten as Bitcoin's continued adoption and development prove otherwise, demonstrating that Bitcoin is not what the accusations claim.

Sure. It's the last thing you'd ever want to hold. Except the US dollar, equity in the US stock exchange, US real estate & US bonds!

The financial system has experienced uncertainty and change numerously since 2008. Anybody who bought bitcoin during Covid is doing pretty well right now. Turns out that holding an asset with no counterparty risk and geographical limitation might actually make economic sense. Who would have thought!

This is clearly the reason Trump's held from touching the Fed. It's about political support, and not the fact that the Elite who own it do not grant him the permission. I know, a crazy conspiracy theory of mine!  :D

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.

legiteum is afraid of losing his 401k pension funds... give him a break! ;D

Do you even realize WHY he said that?

It's because he expects USD hyperinflation -> with a modest amount of BTC he could indeed pay off the whole debt.

Will he say that publicly? Of course not!

He doesn't want to cause panic in the markets.

Everyone and their mom would dump USD to buy BTC preemptively (before the Great -Currency- Reset).

You've been warned.

BTC was never illegal. That's like saying BitTorrent was illegal.

The last time you could buy 1 BTC with $0.01 was back in 2010 (pizza moment).

BTC managed to reach $69k without mainstream/institutional investors (BlackRock ETF) back in 2021.

It's moronic to suggest BTC could drop down to $0.01.

Even in that case, lots of people would stack more BTC (not satoshis, whole BTCs). I would welcome such an opportunity, but it's highly unlikely to happen.

Elite? You mean average middle class Trump voters who have retirement plans?

If the stock market goes down, the Republicans will get slaughtered, and they know that. That's the only thing holding Trump back from, well, anything.


LOL. US fiscal debt is dollar-denominated, so if there's hyperinflation the US will just pay off the debt with... dollars. There would be no reason to use Bitcoin or anything else.


Technically speaking Bitcoin is still not "letter of the law" legal. But in the beginning, most assumed that major governments would prosecute participants in the network, so it was effectively illegal for a while. That faded when it was clear that nobody was going to jail for having or trading Bitcoin.

However, if the US and other major governments cracked down on Bitcoin and drove it to the shadows like they do with child porn etc. then almost nobody would hold it and the price would drop to almost nothing. I'm not saying they will do that (unless the crypto community deeply ties themselves to one US political party so deeply that they are completely screwed if that party ever goes out of power, oh wait...) but it's not "impossible".

And while BitTorrent was never illegal, most of the things people did on BitTorrent were absolutely illegal (if it was legal, you'd just stick whatever it is on an ordinary server). Bitcoin is both a network technology and an end-product. Transferring bits was never illegal, but transferring money has always been highly regulated.


That's great for you, but I'm sure you realize that most people buy Bitcoin in order to make a profit, not hold it as a keepsake. Bitcoin will always "survive" in terms of the technical network, but the world markets devoting a significant percentage of its savings to Bitcoin depends only on it being a potentially profitable investment. It's really no more complicated than that.

Are you financially illiterate?

Printing more dollars to pay off a huge debt is like throwing more gasoline to a fire. :D

Are you suggesting FED can print quadrillions of USD with zero consequences?

If that were the case, Weimar Germany would never go bankrupt.

Code is law. TCP/IP is the network law.

p2p tech is not illegal. Even PGP is not illegal. It's called freedom of speech.

Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.

People can also store illegal images (pedo NFTs/Ordinals) in the BTC blockchain.

Nobody has banned BTC nodes.

Only in a centralized manner, that's why previous attempts have failed.

BTC is decentralized, nobody can take it down.

The price of bitcoin is being determined by demand and supply, but we cannot strike out the manipulating power of the whales because they also own a large amount of bitcoins such that their activity can influence the price of bitcoin either positively or negatively. Two or more whales can agree together to liquidate the market and you will see how the price will fall and if they also buy large amount of bitcoins the price will also increase so regardless that the price of bitcoin is mainly controlled by demand and supply, there are other contributing factors that also helps in controlling the price too.

Um... no... (?) I never said or implied any such thing. Maybe try reading what I wrote again? Obviously if the US dollar collapses in value, then the there would be a massive worldwide financial crisis like we've never seen (and Bitcoin's value would collapse too for that matter). In that scenario the hot commodity will be foodstuffs and bullets. Things that use complicated technology like "the internet" would be pretty worthless :).

You should watch this streaming series if you want to know what the world looks like if the US dollar collapses:

https://www.hbomax.com/shows/last-of-us/93ba22b1-833e-47ba-ae94-8ee7b9eefa9a

:)



Correct. Nobody said they did (?).


Of course. But Bitcoin could be made illegal to the point where its popular adoption is similar to pedo-trading networks, which would probably put its market cap in the low $millions instead over a $trillion.

I suspect 99.9% of Bitcoin holders would consider Bitcoin to be "dead" if its value dropped 99%. Obviously there are those in that 1% who don't care at all about money (maybe they already have so much it no longer matters to them), but for most people, all they care about with respect to Bitcoin is that it increases in value after they purchase it so they can buy more stuff and have a happier life. That's different than looking at it a hobby.

Maybe try to explain how you're going to pay off a debt that rises faster from interest alone every year than the military spending? Answer: you don't, because the debt is not there to be paid. The debt is how fiat money comes into circulation. "Printing" money is not actually printing. The US dollar is loaned into circulation, and is "burned" when debt is paid, but if the debt starts being paid, then we experience deflation and present borrowers cannot pay back their loans, and massive bankruptcy occurs.

You worked at Wall Street, if I remember correctly? You know how money works, right?

Weak hands are where the smart money strikes at. Profit is made through such people, unfortunately, that's true.

Even economists (like Marinakis) don't truly know how money works...

It's only for normal for something as big as Bitcoin to attract speculations and conspiracy theories, as matter of fact these conspiracy theories has help Bitcoin grow and also get places faster, some people that use Bitcoin today heard about it from some of this conspiracy theories.

The more negative news about Bitcoin is reported the more it grows. This is true. There have long been numerous conspiracies surrounding Bitcoin and negative news about it is also very common, even when the price is experiencing a correction. I would even say it's possible that conspiracies like this always emerge when the price drops intentionally trying to make people doubt Bitcoin and take advantage of the low price to buy it.

Because the pattern of Bitcoin conspiracies is always the same. Currently, many people suspect that Satoshi is Epstein. This conspiracy has emerged since the mention of Bitcoin in Jeffrey Epstein emails. In the leaked emails, Jeffrey Epstein revealed intense communication with technology figures, although this has not been proven. Even if he uses or owns Bitcoin, it doesn't mean he is Satoshi. There are many other Bitcoin conspiracies, but I believe this is temporary, as it is being exploited by certain individuals, after which Bitcoin will grow again.

I've lost what we were talking about here, but... The Fed and the Treasury are two different things, and I think we were talking about debt, which means the Treasury. About 12% of US debt is currently held by the Fed, so there is some overlap, but it's important to think of these things separately. If the Fed bought all of the Treasury debt, for instance (or a big chunk of it), then that would represent a devaluation of the USD, meaning that the next time the US went to borrow, interest rates would be much higher, probably precluding our ability to borrow further. Given that the US runs significant deficits every year, that would mean much higher taxes and deep spending cuts as we'd be forced to balance the budget. Hence the US tends to sell most of its debt to investors rather than the Fed.

Will it ever be paid? Probably not, but if the US GDP keeps growing, it can make the debt smaller as a percentage of GDP, which will make it less significant over the time. Thus far our economy is still growing pretty well, but that can change, particularly for the long term when our natural population growth is rapidly shrinking and US citizens have been trained to hate immigrants by one of its political parties for the last 20 years so they are shutting the doors on them too, and vowing to deport millions of workers on top of that, which will lead to a smaller US GDP, making our debt MORE significant instead of less so. (Countries tend to re-think their stance on immigration when their economy starts to blow up though).



I'm a software engineer, so no, I never worked on Wall Street :).

It's an obvious economic math. Not conspiracy
It was a P2P asset back in a day with a full transparent transaction, that's where it started.
Mining crypto isn't a waste, eventually all of the BTC will be mined, everyone have access to decentralized finance and those major tech app have huge energy waste than BTC and it's a business owned by the top 1%, while BTC is owned by the people.

Could be but people can even track those funds in the blockchain nowadays.
Mentioned in the files but everyone can mention satoshi back then, afaik, there's a lot of people (like craig) claiming that they're satoshi and shows some weak proofs, and some buying it.
Some elites are already controlling the traditional system, it makes no sense if those so called rich or elites aka illuminatis are also controlling the finance system for everyone.
lol

Even if this is true then we must try to sync ourselves with whales to book our profit. Whales are called Whales for a reason and thats because they invest in Bitcoin when nobody was willing to invest in Bitcoin. Even right now price of Bitcoin has gone down a lot and those who are buying now will be whales of the future. If we buy at right time then we can easily get profit when price of Bitcoin goes up due to demand and supply or due to whales manipulation.     

The GDP is a flawed metric that can be manipulated. There's a good article from the Mises Institute that debunks its meaning: https://mises.org/mises-wire/gdp-poor-measure-economic-health. It could rise under a declining population. Printing money allows you to manipulate however you wish.

The debt will not be paid, and moronic Keynesian metrics is not the reason why it will or will not be paid. It will never be paid, because the system relies on public debts rising indefinitely. If the system experiences deflation, and the money supply is reduced, then current debts will be more difficult to be paid, and businesses will default, which will lead to even more currency deflation, which will make the rest of the debt even harder to pay, etc., which leads to a deflationary spiral.

The debt is not there to ever be paid. It is there to continuously increase, and inflate the supply of money.

It doesn't matter what the number says, what matters is the rate of taxes the government must levee in order to pay for the debt service and/or the debt. If the tax rates stay the same and tax revenue goes up, that means the GDP grew. Absolute numbers don't matter in macroeconomics, only percentages. If our debt size reduces as a percentage of GDP, then it gets easier to pay.

That doesn't mean this whole plan is always going to work, but that's the theory and thus far investors seem to believe the US will pay their debts, which is why the interest that the US pays is so low.

The nice thing here is that none of this is going to sneak up on anybody because the markets are forward-looking. Last year when Trump's actions threatened to quickly and severely wreck the economy, those interest rates creeped up a tiny amount, but it was enough to demonstrate to Trump who was boss, and he backed down. Trump is arguably the most powerful president in US history and he acts with absolutely impunity, and so if this structure constrains Trump, it's likely to constrain any president or future US government. (That's all assuming we continue to have real elections in the US and thus continued political pressure. If Trump rigs the election this year then the US will collapse for this very reason since the system keeping things in line will have disappeared).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that, politically speaking, we'll always have a debt since the population won't accept the higher taxes / lower spending until they absolutely have to, so we'll always run the economy right at the edge. And it's certainly possible that an incompetent / corrupt president will mess this up. There's a case for both a collapse and also continued stability though.

The worst thing about Epstein island situation (well aside from what happened there) is that many people will believe in conspiracy theories now and that is not going to be the case, most of them are lies, just because one of them was truth doesn't mean all others will be true as well.

Do not believe everything you hear online and remember how easily you can lie online if you want to. There has been many haters for bitcoin for some reasons and they have been busy on spreading lies and rumours for years but bitcoin is staying stronger among all those incidents. FUD is not new to bitcoin ecosystem hence simply moving on will help every bitcoiner.