Bitcoin Forum

Looking to borrow 5 to 200 BTC (more or less if you want, these are guidelines). After deal is done, I'd like us to trade OTC ratings  ;D

Great way for both of us to get higher OTC rating. Loan must be of at least 12 hours. After 12 hours PM me and repayment will be made. Do not try to scam me with a BTC address switcharoo, I take all necessary steps to prove my repayment.

Looking for as many loans as possible.

Reason for these loans are simple. 1- Better OTC rating. 2- better trust in the community. 3- ????

My current BTC per day is 6.47 BTC per day on average. I have about 150BTC, and another 100 on clearcoin stuck in an option till May 1st. I also have ~400$ CAD.

I have perfect positive OTC rating of 2 I believe, perfect 3 postive ratings over at Hardwarecanucks: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/itrader.php?u=8801, and perfect 14-0-0 heatware under n-ster here: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=70864 with my profile links there as well.

Why up to 200BTC you ask? simple, builds trust much faster.

I do have a good rep :( noone wants to have good OTC ratings with me?  :P

I'm up for it, pm me with how.

I have up to 40 BTC.

Great, I will confirm once I receive the 40 BTC to the address I sent you.

Do not be afraid people! ;)

EDIT: Received the 40 BTC on @ 4:20AM UTC on the 9th of april 2011

I don't want to sound mean, but why would anybody trust you more, after this? Each potential credit will be like a coin toss, either you pay it back or not.
The only thing that increases trust in a pseudonymous setting are positive credentials you're afraid to loose by abandoning your identity, and this money shuffling doesn't seem to qualify.

Sorry, English isn't my 1st language so lets see if I understand your post.

You are saying that higher BTC amounts do not mean I will be more trusted? I must say that it will. Seeing if I pay back a 200 BTC loan, it is more likely that in the future, if someone wants to buy something from me or loan me something 200 BTC or lower, that there is a much greater chance that I am trustworthy for that amount since I could have gotten it and ran away with it before if I wanted to and didn't.

The 2nd point you make is that I cannot lose my positive credentials? but I can! I believe that you can register at Heatware and give me a negative evaluation if this does not work out, provided you have proof (and I make sure the loaner has proof, like a PM with exact time I received it etc). Also, even if my OTC rating is low atm, if I lose my pseudonym, I lose the ability to show off my heatware for example. So far, my heatware has gained the trust of many, so losing that would be a big blow.

No loan is 100% safe, I'm just trying to not only prove my worth and that I am trustworthy now for these loans, but by completing my loans, I am showing everyone I actually am trustworthy. Noone can prove that they are not going to scam until the transaction is done, but by doing a lot of transactions, the higher the value the better, they still build trust. Higher value the loans are now, the higher the value people will trust me with.

Anyhow, AFAIK, I am risking all my positive credentials. With these, people actually trust me when I say I'm selling This CPU and RAM at 200$ and they send me the $$ through paypal gift (no fees) and are not surprised to see the items come in perfect condition in the mail a few days later. Also, I have invested a lot of time in my home forum, Techpowerup.com. This may sound silly, but my reputation alone there is worth more than 1000$ to me.

I agree with all you said, except, that the loan in question does not seem to add any new credentials and thus does not raise you credit rating, but others might think different.

Not in the real world, but it does on the bitcoin forum :)From now on, most people will trust me pretty easily with 40 BTC transactions

Loans don't add much to my trust of a person, since there's no risk to the borrower. If loans added to your trust, you could quickly get up to 100,000 BTC loans by paying only a few thousand BTC in interest, and you would have no risk. Traders have the risk that their trades will lose them lots of money, so they earn more trust.

What matters most is community participation and time since joining the community, which are both expensive.

I'm doing baby steps. This will earn me a bit of trust. Later on I'll hopefully be able to sell a few Hardware parts and GPUs (ie: a 5870).

A lot of people look at the total OTC rating though, so trust is easily amassed that way for smaller transactions

In my view, trust is gained by declining opportunities for theft.  When one borrows Bitcoins, he can steal those coins by not repaying the loan.  When he repays the loan, he has declined the opportunity to steal and thereby increased his trust.  With larger loan amounts, the reward for stealing is higher and the trust for faithful repayment is proportionally higher.

A Bitcoin lender has no "theft opportunity", so he gains no extra trust from me by participating in a loan.  However, my estimation of the lender's value to the community increases because he's extending a "theft opportunity" to others allowing them to prove their honesty.

Really well said, mndrix.

I just sent you 200.46 btc to your sig address... please send it back to me as soon as you read this... 1La3J9TgMzhctSjKrYhHyhs7b5agGynyiZ

Very well said!

Yes, I'm counting on the lenders to let me prove that I am trustworthy, you are absolutely right. Would you like to be one of those lenders?  :)

JamezQ, I'm waiting for your PM to reclaim your money so that we can exchange ratings ;)

Sent money back :) at 4/10/2011 1:38AM UTC I think.

Hopefully I get my OTC rating :p

Well, at the end of the day, different people estimate others' trustworthiness based on different criteria.

Taking a short term loan, with the stated purpose of "just no get a trust rating" is in my book not that great of a trust increaser. That said, all else equal, if a person /i/ trust has conducted this transaction with nster, and got repaid, I suppose i'd trust nster more than if he had not done this. So maybe it works a bit, after all. :)

Notice i said "a person i trust". if two guys neither of whom i know claim to trust each other, this does not increase my trust, since both those identities could be owned by the same person. See more details about relying on ratings here:
http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System#Relying_on_the_rating

good point. I'm not sure how to prove to you that he is not my account, if you have any ideas, I wouldn't mind doing so :)

since i have no trust established with him, it is irrelevant whether he's real or not. as your interconnectedness in the wot grows, being connected to real people who are also interconnected, is what will get things done.

Maybe some kind of 6-degrees chart of OTC raters would be good? :)

if only mndrix would give me a loan :p

If only mndrix would decline the opportunity to steal my money :)

I'm a fairly new member here, but I know I have worked with some of you, so I must have some rep to give.

Anyway, ++ to nster, gave 40 BTC loan, got repaid in time. He also helped me set up my auth on #bitcoin-otc, (okay, he gave me the links to do it, but he was willing to give me a 30 min tutoring process ;), so that helps for me trading in the future.

Anyway, this has just been another successful experiment of mine playing with bitcoins, fun stuff.

the full db of ratings has a nice web interface:
http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php
and also a cool contributed graph:
http://corrupt.jails.se/~magnetron

the irc command 'gettrust' gives you level1 (direct) and sum of level2 (second degree) ratings. (more levels soon to come).

so in fact... that's pretty much the direction OTC web of trust is leaning in. :)

doood, I wasn't entirely sure if you were addressing me or OP, but if you sent the 200.46 coins to me, I'll send them back on Monday.  I'll be away from my wallet until then.

No rush. I do enjoy a good social experiment now and then.

haha, looks like you have just invented a new pastime: spam lending.

It's these kinds of interactions that give me hope for humanity. Bravo. *slow clap*

Wow, those are some fat pipes connected to Keefe and you nanotube...

I was only the 6th person after nanotube to join the bitcoin-otc WoT. There are now 222 members. So we've both had about 5 months to do lots of trading with many others.

This guy made python scripts to try to help me bruteforce my passphrase, big props to him :P I had to INSIST before he'd give me a donation address too, good guy

JamezQ is a good guy too, he was willing to help me out but Keefe was there to help me soooo..... He earned a few btc too :)

I've returned the funds.  Tx ID 49d118522eaa2884573841217a760520f704ee675699ae757e091ce7a87f1c71 for the curious

Cheers mndrix, I can see it on 0/unconf in my client.

Pleasure doing business with you ;)

No interest?

What is the incentive to extend someone a loan then?

I mean when I asked for a loan here (which I'll have paid off tomorrow) of course I promised to pay back extra AKA interest(I'm paying back 10BTC on an 8BTC loan) because:


1. It is an incentive to give the loan in the first place.
2. Loans should not be 'free' IMO. The loaner should make some sort of profit for extending someone money on loan IMO

it's a 12 hour symbolic loan, not a practical one. If someone can give me a 40 BTC loan, others can give me 5+ BTC loan for sure. I did tip him 2 BTC :)

I would not have returned the funds, since doood did not prove that he was the one who actually sent the coins. Maybe he only observed the transfer on the network. You also had no prior agreement.

Thanks theymos, I knew there was a good lesson in it somewhere.

I certainly learned something.