Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Speculation => Topic started by: nmat on January 03, 2012, 09:52:48 PM



Title: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: nmat on January 03, 2012, 09:52:48 PM
I have been doing automated arbitrage at some of the top USD exchanges, but the opportunities are very rare nowadays. The prices at TradeHill and MtGox now move almost at the same time.

So I decided to create this thread to share experiences with other people that are also doing arbitrage. Does anyone have any tips or do you know about exchanges that are not as efficient? Maybe the USD/EUR/GBP bitcoin market has more interesting opportunities?


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: epetroel on January 03, 2012, 09:57:43 PM
Agreed, seems like arbitrage opportunities are pretty thin, especially between Gox and Tradehill.  I've been having some luck in the GBP/EUR markets, but those have other problems.  For one, it is much harder to move GBP and EUR between exchanges.  Also, the EUR market seems to be consistently overpriced.  I suppose if you wanted Euros that would be a good thing, but otherwise not so much.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: damnek on January 03, 2012, 10:02:41 PM
I've been doing some arbitrage on the almost abandoned Ruxum. There was somebody buying nearly 100btc for 6.45usd! There's still a bid of 100btc at 5.2usd left, but I ran out of coins.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: epetroel on January 03, 2012, 10:08:27 PM
I've done a bit of manual arbitrage on Ruxum as well, but the fact that they don't have an API makes it kind of pointless for me.  Also, their fees for getting money in and out are pretty ridiculous (same reason I'm not trading at CryptoX yet).

I get an uneasy feeling that Ruxum will just drop off the map soon as well...


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: evoorhees on January 03, 2012, 10:17:09 PM
I've done a bit of manual arbitrage on Ruxum as well, but the fact that they don't have an API makes it kind of pointless for me.  Also, their fees for getting money in and out are pretty ridiculous (same reason I'm not trading at CryptoX yet).

I get an uneasy feeling that Ruxum will just drop off the map soon as well...

Crypto now supports BitInstant so it's much cheaper to get money in. You can also deposit Mt.Gox codes at crypto so you can get USD from Gox over to Crypto with zero fee (and you can use Bitinstant to get USD from Crypto back to gox for about 1%)


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: PatrickHarnett on January 03, 2012, 10:23:35 PM
Having the right funds in the right place at the right time.  Also, patience is necessary.

General observation is that newer exchanges have the better opportunities than the larger/more established exchanges, and that some currencies are better than others (libertyreserve dollars for instance).


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: epetroel on January 03, 2012, 10:26:10 PM
Crypto now supports BitInstant so it's much cheaper to get money in. You can also deposit Mt.Gox codes at crypto so you can get USD from Gox over to Crypto with zero fee (and you can use Bitinstant to get USD from Crypto back to gox for about 1%)

Didn't realize you could deposit Mt. Gox codes at crypto directly for no fee.  That is a big plus.  I have used BitInstant on a number of occasions to go from Gox to Tradehill, but even at 1% the fees are usually too high to make sense.  The profit margin from arbitrage is hardly ever over the 1% required to cover the transfer.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: koin on January 03, 2012, 11:55:56 PM
good to learn the markets are becoming more efficient.

bitstamp has a code that functions in the same way as a mt. gox code / crytpo x coupon in that transfers between customers are possible: http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BitStamp#Internal_transfers perhaps that's another method useful when moving funds for arbitrage?


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: RyNinDaCleM on January 03, 2012, 11:58:32 PM
Though the depth is pretty thin, BTC-e.com is a step behind on big movements. It's good for a handful of coins/USD.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: nmat on January 04, 2012, 01:07:20 AM
Thanks epetroel, I think I am going to check out some non-usd markets. And you're right, the opportunities above 1% are not common.

I looked at btc-e and I don't really know why but I don't feel very comfortable letting my money sit in there.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: RyNinDaCleM on January 04, 2012, 01:20:00 AM

I looked at btc-e and I don't really know why but I don't feel very comfortable letting my money sit in there.

I agree for large sums. I keep about 20 BTC there for such instances. Unfortunately, I do not have USD there ATM. Their market has been steadily increasing in size/volume, and may be an up and coming option.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: epetroel on January 04, 2012, 03:53:31 PM
I looked at btc-e and I don't really know why but I don't feel very comfortable letting my money sit in there.

+1, I feel the same way.  Something just feels a bit shady about that exchange.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: istar on January 04, 2012, 04:06:21 PM
I've done a bit of manual arbitrage on Ruxum as well, but the fact that they don't have an API makes it kind of pointless for me.  Also, their fees for getting money in and out are pretty ridiculous (same reason I'm not trading at CryptoX yet).

I get an uneasy feeling that Ruxum will just drop off the map soon as well...

Crypto now supports BitInstant so it's much cheaper to get money in. You can also deposit Mt.Gox codes at crypto so you can get USD from Gox over to Crypto with zero fee (and you can use Bitinstant to get USD from Crypto back to gox for about 1%)

Thats great to hear. Crypto x change really seems good.
We really need trade at more exchanges than MT.Gox its not good with only one huge market.
In case something happens to them.

Though they have done much for the bitcoin community and continue to do so.



Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: EuSouBitcoin on January 04, 2012, 06:59:45 PM
On CampBX there are 375 BTC offered at $5.31. Currently $5.509 Bid on Mt Gox. That looks like a nice buy at $5.31 on CampBX if you have some USD on CampBX or can move some quickly from Dwolla.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: nmat on January 04, 2012, 07:20:05 PM
On CampBX there are 375 BTC offered at $5.31. Currently $5.509 Bid on Mt Gox. That looks like a nice buy at $5.31 on CampBX if you have some USD on CampBX or can move some quickly from Dwolla.

Yeah, there were some nice opportunities today. That used to be a 500 BTC order ;) Unfortunately I don't have more USD at CampBX.

EDIT: the order is gone now


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: Nejc Kodric (BitStamp.net) on January 11, 2012, 04:27:46 PM
Hello

I would like to announce that BitStamp exchange will soon be supported by BitInstant.

Best regards,
Nejc Kodric
www.BitStamp.net
Questions? -No problem! Mail me nejc.kodric@bitstamp.net


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: RodeoX on January 11, 2012, 07:36:08 PM
I have also noticed how hard it has become to make a buck at arbitrage. Could it just be competition? The more people and bots trying to take advantage of differing prices, the less opportunities there are. That was my guess.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: DublinBrian on June 21, 2012, 12:36:45 PM
There is now a 0.30 difference in the price between MtGox and Intersango. 

Can some of you european miners or bitcoin sellers  please sell your coins on Intersango instead of MtGox. There is a shortage on bitcoins for sale on Intersangos euro market.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: proudhon on June 21, 2012, 12:53:20 PM
There is now a 0.30 difference in the price between MtGox and Intersango. 

Can some of you european miners or bitcoin sellers  please sell your coins on Intersango instead of MtGox. There is a shortage on bitcoins for sale on Intersangos euro market.

That's interesting.  That may be why that huge wall is on MtGox.  Its owner may be speculating that Intersango's prices will compel people to buy into his wall, and thus allow him to sell such a large amount at a price he wants without slippage.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: DublinBrian on June 21, 2012, 01:26:50 PM
There is a major shortage of bitcoins on Intersangos euro market.

https://intersango.com/orderbook.php?currency_pair_id=2

A purchase of just 200 BTC will drive the price to 6. Compare that to MtGox where there are 23,000 BTC for sale at 5.44

If this persists Im going to have to withdraw all my funds from Intersango and send them to Gox, which is a pain in the ass, because Intersango is much easier to use. You dont have to send copies of your id and proof of address to Intersango. Gox is being hobbled by the US banking cartel and I dont want to deal with them.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: proudhon on June 21, 2012, 01:58:25 PM
There is a major shortage of bitcoins on Intersangos euro market.

https://intersango.com/orderbook.php?currency_pair_id=2

A purchase of just 200 BTC will drive the price to 6. Compare that to MtGox where there are 23,000 BTC for sale at 5.44

If this persists Im going to have to withdraw all my funds from Intersango and send them to Gox, which is a pain in the ass, because Intersango is much easier to use. You dont have to send copies of your id and proof of address to Intersango. Gox is being hobbled by the US banking cartel and I dont want to deal with them.

Win for the guy with 23,000BTC for sale.  ;)


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: thezerg on June 21, 2012, 04:18:00 PM
I've been looking at arbitrage of BTC in practice and I just don't get it.  You have to store thousands of bucks on a bunch of pretty risky "exchanges" (if you can even fill that volume and if you can't its not worth the time); it seems to take weeks to get the cash back around the loop to a usable location (if using Mt Gox and the arbitrage is consistently in one direction), and to top it off you have to do a bunch of paperwork come tax time and Uncle Sam is going to take half your profits as short term capital gains!

The only "arbitrage" I can think of is to go more long on BTC then you'd normally go in one of the consistently-lower exchanges and then if Gox starts heading near your buy-in you quickly shift the BTC over there and sell for your minimum profit.  And of course when you take profits (and plan to keep the money in fiat) you can shift BTC to Gox for an extra 5%.  Makes you wonder why anyone is selling on the other exchanges (at their market prices anyway)... I guess there really is a perceived value to the time Gox is taking to disburse funds...



 


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: Bigpiggy01 on June 22, 2012, 01:23:09 PM
My guess is that liquidity levels are managed by continually adding funds to the various exchanges in play. A well funded arb that can do this will always have the upper hand over someone who is trying to 'bootstrap' their funding.

Absolutely and this makes it really really suck if you go faster than usual and run out of funds anywhere on a Friday ;D This is where the leeches come into play with their 2-6% transfers and some of us actually get suckered into using them just to keep our volumes up.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: Seal on June 28, 2012, 05:28:24 AM
Tygrr trading arb bot on GLBSE was recently shut down. It was a pretty serious effort from Chaang Noi but he admitted the opportunities were too few and far between to be successful.


Title: Re: Arbitrage opportunities
Post by: genuise on June 28, 2012, 07:48:46 AM
Tygrr trading arb bot on GLBSE was recently shut down. It was a pretty serious effort from Chaang Noi but he admitted the opportunities were too few and far between to be successful.

This can be well illustraded here bitcoin-analytics.com/#arbitrage (http://bitcoin-analytics.com/#arbitrage)
Please, check if you are interested.