Bitcoin Forum

Every time I've tried to invest or day trade altcoins, I've lost BTC. At this point, I've lost about 0.25BTC so I decided just to buy and hold.

Today I noticed that Cryptsy is now offering shares in a mining contract that offers daily payouts. Each share costs about 0.0185BTC and the payout varies but today's was .00014941BTC per share. Not a staggering amount of return on investment but it could add up?

Date                   Total Distribution   Per Share
2014-04-11   1.49409437BTC.      0.00014941 BTC

I'm intrigued by this concept. Buying shares of a mining contract  I trust Cryptsy about as much as I trust any Bitcoin exchange (maybe a tiny little bit more). But I just don't see how I'm going to make much BTC doing this. I guess it is possible I could buy a share for .0185, and the value could go up and I could sell the share. But it could also go down and that erases any minuscule amount of Bitcoins that are generated daily through mining.

Anyone else interested in this? Anyone else thinking about investing in it?

My best friend got into similar shares offered by Cryptorush.in. I know there's been some negative press about this particular altcoin exchange. However the concept is still interesting.

I'm curious, can you trade these said shares within Cryptsy just like CEX.io for mining contracts?   :)

Yes. You can trade the shares just like any other altcoin.

To me it is analogous to a stock that pays dividends.

Nice one brother - I exclusively deal in Ƀ these days but will look into. I wonder if the share holders get real-time updates on mining (name of altcoin, mining hash rate, total blocks awarded, etc)

I've been using Cryptsy and didn't notice.
Thank you for the news.
I'll buy some.   

It's an interesting approach of taking a dividend route, but just as a note, each share is kinda like getting a 1Gh/s miner. And since the network doesn't show much signs (if any) of slowing down it may be hard to make ROI on the initial investment.

That said, you never know whether these mining contract shares will be put into something else in the future.

Intresting development, looks like a lifetime contract. Ill buy some but i dont expect to make much profit unless btc diff drops

With Simple Exchange (https://peercover.com/#/simpleExchange) you can start and run your own funds.

Cryptsy stated clearly at the beginning that after the 10.000 shares sell, the market would open so everybody could trade the shares he owned.(I have a statement from the customer support too)***
Now they increase the MN1 contract to 20.000 shares (that means +10000 shares) !!!! If I would know they made something diferrent from the first statement I wouldn't buy.

BigVern new announcment on twitter:
"Due to demand, we will be increasing the MN1 contract to 20Th - will also offer 10k more shares.Double capacity means no dilution of shares"

THEY THINK WE ARE STUPID OR WHAT?

ok the dividents will be the same BUT the shares market price will decline its simple as that...
for example if the market real demand is for 30.000 shares then the +20.000 shares demand must be purchased from the open market since only 10.000 was available (so the price would increase) NOW they give 10000 more so the remaining demand is minus 10000 shares and if they continue to CHEAT investors like that they can give more and more and more until demand is very very low so the price will drop immediately after the market will open(or for the optimistics it will increase but not as it could before the added suply). THANK YOU CRYPTSY for SCAMMING US... Personaly I bought shares to sell them not to keep them... So if I new that the first statement was a BIG LIE I wouldn't buy !!!




***(I will provide screenshots for all the conversation ASAP because its interresting)


04.11.2014
Hello xxxxxxxx,
You will be receiving continuous payouts of what is mined.  
I am unable to reverse your purchase, but you are welcome to sell your shares once the other half of the set 10000 shares have all
been taken.  We have sold 1/2 of them already in first 12 hours, so its actually looking pretty good for all involved.


Sincerely,
Jim
Customer Service Manager
Cryptsy.com



PS Not to mention the price of 0.0185 BTC per share 1GH/s compared to https://cex.io/#GHS-BTC of 0.0106 BTC

Absolute rubbish and a gimmick.
Invest in GHS at your peril!!
I like cryptsy
but this is a low point.
If you have any questions,
take a look at the long term CEX.IO chart.

I do have to agree that it wasn't the "fairest" move to allow another 10,000 shares to be sold. You gotta remember though, these shares somewhat function as a type of "Bond." The only difference is there is no guarantee of return and it is highly risky.

Once again, if these shares are pegged to 1 Gh/s for their lifetime, then it'll be hard to make ROI at the current rate that the difficulty is increasing.

That said, you never know what the long-term plans for these shares are.

I bought a few, as well. The lifetime contract did it.
Nice first 2 payouts...I think. Well, I guess I don't really know...I've never mined btc, so don't know what is nice or not. But, I think it was good for what I paid thus far.

i have bought at 0.0185 and sold at 0.02, for a small profit. Quite happy with these contracts :), but i would not hold them long time. I can't see the upside.

So apparently these shares are selling for over 0.0275 BTC each (nearly 50% up from what you could buy them for originally). Fortunately, I had a bunch that I had a sell order at around 0.025 (and I didn't think that they would actually sell). Anyone have any thoughts on why these contracts are being sold for so much over what they were sold for?

I don't particularly care to get the ones I sold back (I still have a few left over that I'm keeping, and with the price differential that I sold mine for, it's like I got those for free). I'm more curious than anything.

People see an initial up move and jump in like lemmings.
More accurate pricing will be seen in a week or two.

Fair enough, it's what I figured too. It is surprising though. Even at the beginning, each share of .0185 BTC pegged to 1Gh/s was only slated to make a BTC ROI if difficulty increases hovered at 2.5%-3% for the next 12 months.

Once it hit around .021 BTC each, difficulty actually needed to start decreasing around 1% per retarget for the next 12 months in order to make ROI.

At 0.025 BTC, I have no clue what the thought process is behind buying. This is why it's very curious.

There's probably someone here that has a more comprehensive Excel File (in fact, I know there is, I just don't remember where it's reposited in). But in the interim, you could use something like https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator (https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator).

Unfortunately the Bitcoin mining GH/s at Cryptsy are way overpriced - which means less chance of making anything back on your investment.

You can buy 1 GH/s of mining power for a third of the price at PB Mining (http://pbmining.com?ref=bitcoinfuture).

And you can also buy 1 GH/s of mining power (which can be traded on an exchange) at CEX (https://cex.io/r/1/pr/0/) for about half of the price.

Disclosure: these are affiliate links above - but honestly the GH/s on Cryptsy are so overpriced.

;)

Why would the market be so inflated? Thanks for the alert, I'm not up to speed on mining contract prices.
Eventually either Cryptsy's will go way down or PB Mining will have a huge rally.

PB Mining (http://pbmining.com?ref=bitcoinfuture) has no fees either - and after 5 years (when the contract runs out) the GH/s will be virtually worthless anyway. There is no way to sell the GH/s later on though - they are 5 year mining contracts.

CEX (https://cex.io/r/1/pr/0/) does have some small fees - but nowhere near enough to make it worth spending twice as much at Cryptsy.

CEX (https://cex.io/r/1/pr/0/) is the best option if you're looking to mine and trade - the trading platform there is very professional and the GH/s are much closer to the market rate than at Cryptsy.

To seriously try and get a return on investment PB Mining (http://pbmining.com?ref=bitcoinfuture) is the best option (assuming the service lasts). You can buy 100 GH/s there for 0.58 BTC- I don't want to know how much it would cost for 100 GH/s on Cryptsy.



This is the best mining calculator (which shows upcoming diff changes): https://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

I think they are over priced because newbs are overvaluing them way too much and getting ripped off - which is why I wanted to let people know in this thread ;)

If btc diff drops that much, then there is probably something seriously wrong that will cause the price to drop, so, what I'm trying to say is that there is about a 0.00000001% chance that these things will be profitable.

It seems that the market is starting to "quiet down" in the sense that prices are lowering. But even at the current prices, a lot has to happen to make ROI on these contracts.

You never know though, Cryptsy could change the function of these shares to somehow make them actually "profitable."

The current prices are - in my opinion - not low enough to make ROI..  That's not just for Cryptsy, but also for Cex.io and less valid for PBmining.

Some think they might ROI in half an year, but I'll can make bigger profits in that time (by for example daytrading).

I dont know about other services but i am happy with CEX.IO. I dont know if you can make ROI there just with mining but i see that service mostly as trading platform and mining just like nice bonus.

I can't believe how many people here think this. As long as the price of your shares don't drop in value, ANY return is profit. There are no sunk costs at all. You need a ROI that exceeds the cost of the hardware only when doing the mining yourself, because you won't be able to sell the miner for the same price you paid for it. Just watch the share prices, and sell if the price drops lower than your purchase price with accrued interest. It's like buying a bond: The vast majority of bonds that people buy offer MUCH lower interest rates.

That is "if" you sell it for an equal or higher price of what you buy it for. But I don't see people being able to sell shares that they buy at .0275 for the same price in the future. The implicit assumption is that you buy a share with the intent of making a return after all transactions.

As for a bond, "profits" aren't "realized" until time of redemption. In this case, it's when you sell your share (or when the value of the fixed income passes the original purchase price). The difference is that there is no guarantee you will sell your share for the amount that you bought it for.

If you think the price of the share will drop substantially, then it would make no sense to buy it. I think the price will stay above .0200 which was my purchase price, for the medium term. All you need to do is set your shares to sell if they fall beyond a certain price. It's incredibly easy. Every payment I get is pure profit.

Seems pricey :)

The price has almost doubled since it started.

Not quite double, but for all of those that bought during the initial sale, they'll be making .55 BTC per share plus whatever their shares have brought in so far. Which isn't all that bad. (In full disclosure, I sold quite a bit of mine at .025, but I'm at the point now where the "dividends" plus shares I sold are now equal to what I initially put in. It's kinda like got those shares for "free" and every "dividend" that is get is just extra icing on the cake.)

I can't recommend buying shares at this moment though. It's hard to convince me that the amount that can be gotten is worth the risk.

I'd agree with that. I bought in 20 of the initial shares and sold them all off after 3 days for a decent profit. I just don't see them making a positive ROI if holding onto them long term.

If you're there for the market opening, every thing they make available goes way over value on cryptsy straight away;  an immediate parabolic and crash quite seperate to any other market forces.

Yep, pretty much what I did, got made a few BTC in "profit" from it.

Yeah, that pretty much is what happens with a lot of things so often. Oh well, quick profit I suppose.

So MN2 shares are now out, at 0.18, can we assume this caused the MN1 contracts to lose value?

Personally I think there Overpriced and your best bet is the BDD MINE/SELL shares over at havelock investments. Or you could go with cloudmining, and I'd probably go with PB mining.

Cryptsy MN1 is featured on our bitcoin cloud mining review site at: http://cloudminingreport.com

Here is our full Cryptsy MN1 review (http://cloudminingreport.com/reviews/cryptsy-mn1-bitcoin-cloud-mining-contracts-review/)

This had a significant amount to do with it. After all, to balance that value, the values of the MN1 contracts have to go down. Cogently, a new contract doesn't directly affect the price of the older contracts, but there is a severe psychological impact that causes the overall market to react. I do expect the price MN1 to bump up a bit (maybe to .195ish) when MN2 initial sales are completed (and their price bumps up also).

I bought one share of MN2.  I like the idea of these contracts.  It is almost akin to buying a stock and getting dividend payouts.  It isn't a lot, but it can add up over time, and if the price is stable it can offset any losses.

The only real problem is that when the hashing power goes up...the "dividend" payouts should exponentially decrease.  So a "lifetime" contract is pretty meaningless if you think about it.  

Then again...if I get 33 cents a share per day, that may not sound like a lot...but my AAPL shares only pay $3.21 per share PER QUARTER!  The risk is much higher in Bitcoin, as cryptsy could dissolve tomorrow and I'd be shit out of luck...but I think this "mining contract" concept is really great.  I can't way to see it more refined.

If you like cheaper mining contracts with daily profits .. try us ;)

https://crycurex.com/markets/detail/15/

They will inevitably go down. It says that on Cryptsy.

I bought 4 MN2 contracts at 0.18 each, thinking to sell them after the IPO around 0.19 , but the price went down the drains and right now it is around 0.127 , I don't know why this went down so hard , MN1 didn't behave this way.

Yes. It sucks. I bought one at .18. I wouldn't panic sell. I'd hold it because the price has been steadily going up. The dividend payouts started good and now are not great. Wait and see, If the next few dividend payouts go back to their higher level, I think the share price will rebound.

That said, I'll probably dump it at a break even price if that becomes possible. These dividend payouts can easily be wiped out if the price drops. Especially if they release MN3 in a few weeks.

Is is a good idea in theory but was poorly executed.

I can offer you better price, we sell same MN1 contracts for 0.0169 Btc, and If my calculations are correct, our daily payouts are also higher than cryptsy´s.


MN1/BTC market here:

https://crycurex.com/markets/detail/15/


More info here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=436832.msg6428256#msg6428256


or at www.crycurex.com

You lack of integrity will keep people away. Start your own thread.

I do have my own thread and there is link to that thread ;)

Way too many MN2.  Pulled out all the available cash from the people that don't know any better.  I noticed they even started trading on it before all the initial allotment was sold (lol).  gg cryptsy.

... but, people shouldn't compare the price on these to cex.io.  cex.io charges a maintenance fee which is a bit extravagant:  https://cex.io/maintenance

No maintenance fee on the Cryptsy shares, though I have my doubts about this "lifetime" contract lasting for more than a year.  Cryptsy got their hashpower from ghash.io, at some discount.... but ghash.io won't want to keep providing that indefinitely obv..  Better hope they're working on more efficient & faster ASICs, I guess.... else the maintenance fee will be 100% in less than 1/2 a year..

... but at any rate, when comparing prices vis-a-vis cex.io, the cryptsy shares are about 25% more valuable due to the lack of maintenance fee.  well, unless they're deducting that from the bitcoins they distribute.  wouldnt surprise me.

 I thought the price would not crash down so drastically and so quickly. I can't get my mind around this, why anyone in his sane mine would sell a mining contract that bought 1 or 2 days ago for 0.18 BTC in 0.16 or lower for fuck sake!!

Is it me, or has the frequency that Cryptsy pay out their mining contract earnings become somewhat erratic?

I think I saw in their twitter there was a problem with payouts yesterday? Still I wouldn't cloud mine with them. Way too expensive.