Bitcoin Forum

How can we use BTC to make more BTC for ourselves? What is the most efficient way to go about this in your opinion?

Trading alt coins works great, some of the time, to increase your BTC balance.
You need to know how to handle Bear markets; I did not say "buy and hold" alt coins.

Like the saying in motorsports goes, "In order to make a small fortune in Bitcoin, start with a large one."

Open a bitcoin ATM.

Invest in ponzis!


 
Lol, jk! :D
Trading alt-coins I'd say. Or just day trade bitcoins.

Simply being a bitcoin early adopter/innovator is already a rare and powerful investment opportunity that
is open to anyone right now.

It is not necessary to try to generate "more BTC".  Instead, simply buy some coins
and hold onto them for 5 years, and see what happens. 

Why did dogecoin go up again? It was at 99 a while back and now it's 120+. The darn thing's inflationary and still goes up in price.

It has been dying for weeks/months now so honestly going back "up" to 120 isn't really an increase. It was 300 not all that long ago and has just slowly slid down since then.... There will be a few attempts at rallies here and there but ultimately I think it's going to keep going down. And I'm a doge holder.

says the chode

Get a laser printer, print up some paper wallets:

https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html (https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html)

you can go with themes:

https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html?design=holiday (https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html?design=holiday)
https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html?design=chinese-new-year (https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html?design=chinese-new-year)

or/and do some altcoins that you can buy through cryptsy.com

http://dogecoinpaperwallet.net/ (http://dogecoinpaperwallet.net/)

Throw a few satoshis on them.

Now that the IRS has ruled that cryptocurrencies are not currency, you don't need a license to sell these to friends, family, at farmer's market, and other places that you might think of. You can put a 100,000 satoshis on a paper wallet for less than a $1 right now and sell them for about $10 each. Give them a better deal with 250,000 satoshis for $20.

Be ready to do a lot of talking & educating of people about Bitcoin & other cryptocurrencies. Stay positive. You will be spreading the word, while making a few dollars on the side.

If you know a lot about altcoins then I suspect that pumping and daytrading those is more of a money-spinner than anything involving Bitcoin just now.

It is possible, at least in some places such as UK, to buy larger quantities of BTC on an exchange and then sell it in smaller chunks for a small profit on sites such as LocalBitcoins and Bittylicious.

You can, for example, sell BTC now on LocalBitcoins for 5% above Bitstamp and then buy it back on Bitstamp immediately, so that your BTC holdings increase.

Downsides:

• Relatively low reward. Maybe you can sell for 5% above the exchange, but there will be additional fees, possibly including transaction fees from any fiat transfers you need to do.
• Risky. Involves sending large chunks of fiat to an exchange where it probably sits waiting for you to be able to buy low, risking its total and irrecoverable loss should the exchange go under. You can't sell BTC without fiat to buy BTC so you end up keeping fiat on the exchange constantly.
• Requires some startup funds. For example, you won't be able to sell on LocalBitcoins without holding at least BTC0.4.
• Lots of identify verification. Exchanges will need to do AML/KYC checks on you, which will involve you having to send scans of identity documents and bills etc.
• Scammers. Depending on how you sell the BTC you will be exposed to a greater or lesser rate of scam attempts, but the rate will be non-zero. Even scam attempts that are unsuccessful against you personally can negatively affect you. For example, if you accept payment through online banking then someone who steals another person's online banking credentials can buy from you. Later the rightful owner of the bank account reports the fraud and your payment may be clawed back. Your bank may also take that opportunity to freeze your bank account for months while they investigate what you're doing. Rather inconvenient if it also happens to be your day to day banking facility.

None of these problems are insurmountable but for the relatively low return you may consider them an ineffective way to make money.

In a rising bitcoin economy it is likely more effective to simply sell your holdings for profit in bulk on an exchange, withdrawing all funds as soon as they no longer need to be there. However you need to actually have holdings for that to work. The above method works best in a falling economy since it's easier to ensure you buy back at a significantly lower price than you sold for.

Buy and maintain bitcoin mining rigs.  Or, Search for Groupbuys in the forum and participate in one of them

DOGE is popular enough that you will get moves in both directions, even during a strong trend.
The recent move, ~90 to 148 leaves plenty of people guessing which way it will go next.
Like I said, "Trading alt coins works great, some of the time".

I personally invest in alt coins. It is risky doing this, however.

Trading Alt coins, investing, gambling. All of these options has a risk factor.

The safest method will be to lend the Bitcoins to someone here (with high trust ratings). You will get interest rates ranging from 12% to 24% per year. Trading with altcoins can destroy all your money.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0

Well there are a lot of scammers around nowadays, everything has risks but I feel like trading altcoins has a slighty lower risk

I have a feeling that altcoins will soon bite the dust. The recent altcoin boom (by the end of 2013) was caused by Chinese investors who piled up altcoins as they thought that Bitcoin was way too expensive. The China boom has long ended. So... there is a lack of demand in general for the altcoins. Also, right now there are close to 750 different altcoins, with 20-30 new coins being created every day. This will lower the demand even more. 

Trade alt coins or trade btc itself
Try not to gamble

trade altcoins/trade securities. but the best way you say? so far its to scam people cause most of the time you can get away

This. Simply put, you can never generate more btcs than what you're having now with what you're having now. I used btcs to get miners to try to get more btc, I lose more btc than I can eventually generate. The best way to 'net' more btc is to simply buy, buy and keep buying.

Never trade Bitcoin securities. I myself lost 80% of all my Bitcoins in the BTCT.co scam. And everyone seems to have forgotten about the Labcoin scam, which conned more than BTC10,000 in total.

+1. Way too much altcoin offer and BTC selling than demand...

I think trading alt coins but its very risky. Its all good catching the 400% pumps but its not nice taking a 80% haircut on the dumps.

Thank you both for your opinion. So basically it gets pumped and dumped every now and then just like every other alt coin. The difference being that it is popular so it can count on some holders and therefore some "floor" value.


Very clever this. You need good social skills, though.

I don't think this is the greatest idea. When people find out that you sold them less than $1 worth of btc for $10 they're not going to be too happy with you and they certainly won't be thinking wow crypto is great I should totally keep buying bitcoins... I would say this is basically a scam unless I am somehow horribly misunderstanding what you meant. It sounds like just ripping people off and being a shady fuck.

So can you tell me how much money have you gained or lost since you started trading alt-coins? I have never tried trading any crypto other than Bitcoin, but would like to hear from others about it.

Hold them until you're in big profit, then sell, then buy back at a massive drop and repeat the process.

Do you guys think it is a good idea to convert some BTC into interest-paying altcoins such as Hobonickels or are these things just a complete waste of time?

Hobonickles? lol. No. You're more likely to lose money this way.

nice business idea, but yeah 1000% markup isnt cool... go with maybe 20-25% markup and stay in integrity.

I think he's charging people for explaining bitcoin to them rather than the actual paper wallet. But, yeah, that profit margin is too high. A fair price for micro amounts would be exchange +20%. Larger amounts can be sold at lower margins.

I am not so much selling bitcoins as I am selling a wallet & providing information. Once people buy the wallet, I will sell them bitcoins at about a 10% markup.

Also, I would never lie about their current market value. Some people just want to buy as a gimmick and a 100,000 satoshis sounds cool.

Invest in alt coins then sell them quickky

The easiest way to do it without much trading experience is to convert some BtC into LTC on a price dip, and just flip it back into BTC when the ratio is stronger. Depending on USD prices, you may not net too much USD profit, but you will have increased your BTC holdings.

What will happen if LTC never recovers? A few months ago, LTC peaked at 0.05 BTC. Then it came down to 0.02 and has remained at 0.02-0.03 ever since. The problem with LTC is that it depends too much on the Chinese. 

You could say the same about BTC. Almost all of the price fluctuations lately have been a result of news coming out of China.  There is no reason for LTC to not recover as it is also getting more and more adoption each day. It is like 1-1.5 years behind BTC in my opinion.

There is reason actually. Most of the ventures which once used Litcoins have shut down, such as the famous equity market Litecoinglobal and the Ebay-like merchant site Atlantis. Can you provide me with any sort of proof for your claim that the Litecoin sector is getting more and more adoption every day? I am yet to see any of it.

+1

Probably because DOGE is a pseudo-crypto FIAT scamcoin.

http://trilema.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/

Alt coins are a horrible way to use BTC to net more BTC, you could miss a good upswing.

Especially doge which creates billions of coins per day killing the value over time.

The best way to use BTC and keep your BTC while netting more BTC is via BitFinex...though I should not reveal this because the more people willing to loan BTC, the lower the return.  That is probably why nobody else mentioned it.

Risk: You have to keep your bitcoins on the BitFinex website. After over a year, they are fairly trustworthy. However, the safest place is always in your cold storage.

I have invested in arbitrage and it has been quite profitable recently. It is basically taking advantage of BTC price difference between different BTC exchanges. Links are in my signature if you would like to try.

Invest in creating BITCOIN PTC sites

PTC sites. Surely not Pay to Click?

Using money to make more money?

This is a left over notion from the credit based economy in which the presence of inflation biases every aspect of our economic decision making. With fiat, one must use money because it will certainly be worth less in the future. Notably, you can lend it out and gain both principal and interest back. One could buy an income producing asset and realize a stream of income that will likely sum to more than the original cost.

In the Bitcoin Economy, these biases are the opposite of what one should do. Deflation is weird and we must wrap our minds around what it means. For starters, lending and credit do not work in the Bitcoin Economy. The rate of deflation for the near future is greater than the investment return that one could gain. This is obvious when examining the repeated failure of bitcoin-denominated securities.

Forget about the idea of you making money. In the Bitcoin economy, only mining pools make money. Rather, you earn money. Your currency increases in value simply by holding on to it.

Bitcoin is for saving and prudent spending upon necessities. This guideline applies to enterprises as well as individuals.  Let me recast a common economic activity in Bitcoin terms to illustrate the point.

Bitcoin Household Mortgages - Not.

There are no mortgages nor long term lending in the Bitcoin Economy. Not now, probably not ever. Buy now and pay later has never really been a good idea. In the economy we are working towards, a substantial asset, whether a necessity or income-producing, is purchased on installments. You get the title for your home in exchange for a good faith promise to make periodic payments for a contracted duration of time. The amount of the payments decreases with the deflation rate, or is otherwise linked with your ability to pay. If you miss your payments, the property or collateral reverts to the seller, less the adjusted equity you have paid in.

No debt, no banks, no problems.

Good essay SS...  Where do you draw the line between prudent spending and spending for the sake of nurturing adoption?

It is conventional wisdom in this forum that prudent bitcoin spending is for necessities. Things you must have. For example, I spend a lot at Amazon for books, nutritional supplements, household expendables and such. Until such time as Jeff Bezos "gets Bitcoin", I buy Amazon gift cards at Gyft. I am also on the lookout for discounted gift cards, purchased in bitcoin from various sellers.

I attempt to conduct at least one bitcoin transaction daily. Here in Austin that is getting easier. There are over 60 bitcoin-accepting vendors within an easy drive, listed on Coinmap.org. Many serve food and everyone must eat.

I like the idea to open a bitcoin ATM. It can bring a lot more BTC

Buy Mining hardware

I loaned bitcoin to short sellers at BitFinex from January to April last year at about 2% annual interest. I was treated professionally and had no problem whatsoever with the website nor the operators. FYI, I saw that the rate of return on dollars loaned for long-position margin traders was much, much higher.

But what made me pull my coins out of BitFinex despite all their assurances, was that the return did not, by my thinking, balance the risk. I was making 1000% on average each year simply holding the coins securely myself. There was a minuscule risk that the exchange could be hacked, or somehow suffer a big market move that would force close the margin positions and leave the exchange at a loss. If I was making 1000% anyway, why try to improve on that by 2% and lose sleep over the chance all could be lost?

I agree, the risk is not worth it for such small returns. I only loaned out BTC on there after the rate went up as the price was falling the past few months. I sent someone a bitcoin and figured I would loan enough for enough time to get that bitcoin back.

But after the Heartbleed thing I pulled all of my BTC to cold storage.

CGB is made to hedge and multiply Bitcoins. A solid investment:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245086.0

How would you miss a BTC upswing if your trading an alt which means an alt/btc pair?

Arbitrage

If you are going to invest in an altcoin, do wht I do. Invest (let's say 1000$ worth of btc) when you feel it's being pumped, the minute you start to think it may drop, take back the initial 1000$ and hold your winnings for a bit longer, if you hit a big dump, you didn't lose anything, and if you manage to trade it out with a good timing, you've made a good profit.

Mining rigs.

Even if BitCoin fails, I can put them to use.  

Some will argue that ASIC is only made for mining but I could talk for days about this just isn't the true.

I prefer having something solid, tangible, that I can either resell or re-use.  If I can't do either or, I won't do either.

Otherwise you can look at online mining because you can start with like BTC0.01 per GH/S

Offline you have complete control and if something goes astray, you're the only one to blame.

Online you entrust the site operators to running a legit operation.  However, power outages, break downs and maintenance doesn't affect your profit.

There's also Ponzi's but that's in anything related to currencies but usually those are not recommended because the results are entirely out of your control.

I do mining both on and offline, nothing else can I the recent crashes didn't fend me off, to me, BitCoin is a video game because it has nearly all aspects of other profitable video games.

The game is an IRL baby-sitting miners game lol

If going full ASIC mining is too much for your tech level then you can start with USB miners since they're pretty much plug and play; plus USB miners are relatively cheap, as low as $15 for 336MHZ or about $25 for the AntMiner U1...

Hope this helps :)

We must discard what we previously know about currency when it comes to Bitcoin. Any currency right now has inflationary elements, simply because the supply is not limited. With Bitcoin however, the supply is limited hence it's deflationary. We've never had any sort of currency that is deflationary in nature. Gold perhaps was once currency, but now no longer, so we're so used to a currency that's inflationary in nature, that we really do not know how's a currency like if it's deflationary. Imagine if our currency is deflationary, that every dollar would be worth more tomorrow than today, how would we manage our money? The very opposite of what we're doing today: spend

This would be like asking: what is the best way to use money ($ for example) to net more.
This is more like a general question about a good investment (there isn't a real right answer).

Sounds like you are promoting "sitting on your ass" economics. 

"sitting on your ass" economics.

Well yes. That is sort of what I am promoting. I hope it gets tagged with a more inspiring phrase. But maybe that one will stick.

For some, there will be a profound guilt that relatively great wealth was achieved by doing nothing - in particular not taking action to dissipate the acquired bitcoin estate. When asked about their vast stash of bitcoin, the Winkelvoss Twins respond that they still have every one of them.

But retention of the estate does not necessarily entail inaction with regard to every other aspect of Bitcoin. The twins are a good example. They appear in public to educate others about Bitcoin; they are organizing Wall Street resources to engage others in the Bitcoin Economy. And they excite the public imagination as they partner with Richard Branson to pay for space tourism via Bitcoin.

http://cdn.ientry.com/sites/webpronews/pictures/winklevoss-twins-rowing_616.jpg

Learn how to play poker, then go on sealswithclubs.eu and quadruple your bitcoin stash.
That's what I did, but bear in mind I've played poker for many years. I'm not amazing, but I know my way around an online poker table.

Yes it's gambling, but poker is probably about 60% skill, 40% luck - a lot better than most other forms of gambling.