Bitcoin Forum

So I was trying to discuss bitcoin with someone recently who is the "average joe". They think paper FED notes are "real money"  ::)

It got me thinking. Why not print paper wallets for coins but with specific values on the face.

For instance -

The project site generates a paper wallet with a design that says "1 Bitcoin"
The "bill" has a QR code that the person accepting can run on the site and make sure the bill has 1 BTC currently

Just and idea.
Feel free to flame/steal...etc

Use of money substitutes has historically led to fractional reserve banking.

Although you bring up the idea of verifying that each bill is backed. Something we can't do with the current crop of inked toilet paper and gold.

Interesting idea.

Wouldn't be hard. Just check the public key in the block explorer.

I'm semi new and have no way to do it myself. However, I'm highly interested and motivated for new ideas for bitcoin.

I currently have a "neat" idea that an alt coin dev could implement to make their coin more noticeable. Or as a wrapper to existing coins made by a 3rd party.

Why do you doubt this? Fiat has all the qualities of money. Store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account, fungible etc. It's all there.

Store of value?

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/11/30/saupload_dollar__2000_to_2010.png

I opted for the decade long chart rather than the more dramatic century long one.  Still this doesn't even show the whole picture as it just compares the dollar against other currencies (who are also losing value).  The chart does show the US dollar has been a worse store of value than a basket of foreign currency.

What really matters is what can a dollar buy in terms of purchasing power.  That has been a near continual loss of wealth reaching a >95% loss over the last century.
http://thumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com/purchasing-power-of-the-us-dollar-1913-to-2013_517962b78ea3c.jpg

In Dec-Jan 1 bitcoin was worth $1,000. Today it is worth ~$440. I don't think a chart is needed. Bitcoin has some of the qualities of money. But it lacks store of value and unit of account. Fungibility is also at risk because of the open nature of the blockchain. It makes blacklisting coins a distinct possibility.

Fiat is widely acknowledged as money and is a reasonable store of value. If you don't agree to that then that is your choice.

I'm guessing you just speculate.

Go hug your reserve notes while they're still accepted as "having value".

Try not to get too much blood on you while you're at it...

Why do you compare a paper wallet to paper money?

I think his line of thinking is that creating paper wallets of the fashion he proposes in his original post, that could be used like paper moneyfor paying stuff, could gauge faster and easier broad acceptence.

While the idea is nice I think it is going against the trends with even FIAT money seen at least in the western world: Everything is strongly moving more and more towards electronic payments instead of using coins and paper money. And I think that is where bitcoin/crypto currencies need to emphasize on their strengths and have a chance to become a standart global model.

I mean for the "average joe" what are banks and fiat doing for them, that bictoin/crypto can't? Apart from handing out physical money there isn't really much anymore.

As for the "store of value" capability of FIAT money versus Cryptocoins: In my view it is just as much based on common agreement influenced by speculation as with bitcoin/crypto. Even worse: with FIAT money it mostly is a single entity that can go ahead and pretty much dictate the value of money at their sole will.

Sure currently Bitcoin's value is tightly knit unto the value of USD, mostly because you don't get paid for your day to day work with bitcoin and thus can't pay for your house and food with bitcoin.

The real question is: Is it even possible that everything is globaly switched to bitcoin, so that there can be a global agreement upon what an hour of work is worth in bitcoin and from there prices for EVERYTHING else are determined?

Because frankly that is what is needed for bitcoin/crypto to replace the current system.

I do not see that happen in my lifetime.

Never heard anyone talk about that. Wow its more then likely to happen. Maybe that is why Darkcoin is so innovative. Privacy has never been bitcoins strong suit. Blacklisting coins puts us all at risk.

What does blacklisting a coin mean?

A service refuses to use it? SO what? Don't use that service.

Emitting "bitcoin notes" seems to be a good idea. I have already thought about it. The issue is : how you can be sure that no one owes the private keys?

If the private key is folded inside (like most of regular paper wallet), how can you be sure the firm or guy who printed it didn't copy it? You have to trust the publisher. And also you have to trust the anti-reading of hidden private key: trust that no on has unfolded then fold back the priv key code. I know what I mean, I gave around 50$ in a bitcoin paper-wallet to my brother. He has never experienced bitcoin, that's definitively an uncommon gift. But he trusts me (I haven't kept nor copy priv key, printed it in a relatively secure environment, I printed only once, no ones could unfold it before I gave it, etc...)

Also the publisher can just generate a public address (from a private seed) and print it alone (without the private key folded/embeded) and charge 1 BTC. But again users have to trust publisher that they actually did that (meaning not copying nor storing private keys).

Your idea is near from Casascius coin, except this would be paper instead of coins. In the case of Casascius, I think people (at least customers) trust him and then there is a temper proof (more or less (http://codinginmysleep.com/casascius-physical-bitcoins-cracked-at-defcon/)). So in your case, you still need trust from people.

One might imagine a new system where public key can be generated without private key (without seed? without input?), so that makes non-recoverable address. Then buyer of "bitcoin" notes still trust that publisher did really use this generation method (if exists) to print money. Maybe a system like vanity (https://gobittest.appspot.com/VanitySum) could be used. Also there is issue about temper/anti-copy/genuine proof, it needs a mechanism to prevent copy. Even with a private key that has never be known, it is very easy to copy a paper. For example you can check with a QR that the public address printed has the dedicated fund in chain. But how could you be sure there's no other copy? About counterfeiting/copying Casascius coins are better about this, since it's harder to copy a coin that a paper (without anti-copy method like hologram or so)

[ I called "publisher" the entity which prints the notes]

This are all my though about this topic, I really hope some other guys would imagine solutions to address these issues. Giving "physical" aspect to bitcoin is a good idea to make bitcoin more famous and "nicer" for the masses. At first, it can be seen as reverse from the use of a digital thing that can carry money over landlines. But this topic can have practical application for every user as cold storage, transfer to anybody without computer nor internet, transfer without memory usage to improve safety,...