Bitcoin Forum

It was interesting to watch the reaction of regulators to the arrival of cryptocurrency. Some of that government reaction was what one might expect, a bit of overreaction based on common misconceptions, followed by a short burst of overreach. China went full crazy, banning Bitcoin outright and telling banks not to touch it. Outside China, the reaction of regulators was surprisingly cautious. In the US, there was a strongly worded letter from the Treasury Department to a handful of businesses — threatening to follow up with even more strong language in the future.  In an unrelated action, the IRS declared Bitcoin to be real property, not currency, and hence taxable. Legislators are split, with some demanding outright bans, while others support a more accommodating approach. Canadians took the radical step of studying the issue before recommending any enforcement action.

The concern of law enforcement was that Bitcoin would be used to fund illegal activities including terrorism, and enable money laundering. Those are not unreasonable concerns — and basically the downsides of any stateless medium of exchange, including cash.

If Visa and MasterCard feel digital currencies are a threat to the stealth tax they levy on nearly every electronic transaction, then Dark Wallet is a tailor-made talking point for lobbyists who want legislators to crush competition.
None of those problems were new, and all regulators and Bitcoin exchanges had to do was work out a set of rules for Bitcoin traders that mitigated those concerns. There was progress in those negotiations; regulators were getting more comfortable with the concept of cryptocurrencies, more businesses accepted Bitcoin, and an influx of venture capital was moving the concept of digital currency slowly but surely toward financial legitimacy.

bitcoin_chartAt MIT, students are set to become part of a giant Bitcoin experiment, as the MIT Bitcoin Club secured $500,000 in funding to give every student at MIT $100 worth of the digital currency and watch what happens. The goal of the project is to gather data about how people actually use digital currency, in hopes that information will lead to improvements in the system implementation.

Now, in the midst of those first tentative steps forward, comes an announcement by a group called unSystem about the release of a new version of the user software Dark Wallet, which beefs up anonymity in Bitcoin transactions.

Dark Wallet encrypts and then blends Bitcoin transactions to make tracking individual transactions all but impossible. If Dark Wallet works as advertised, it will be a clear message to regulators that digital currencies can’t be regulated or trusted, which is not particularly helpful if you’re one of the people hoping to see Bitcoin expand into commercial markets.

Using a process called CoinJoin, Dark Wallet creates a stream of encrypted and anonymous Bitcoin transactions, and only the private keys held by the originator will be able to decrypt and claim the Bitcoins being transferred. Basically the Dark Wallet clients test every transaction to see if it belongs to them; if the decryption works, it’s theirs. The philosophy is simple and effective.

Another wildcard is the news that MasterCard is paying lobbyists to focus on Bitcoin and digital currencies on Capitol Hill. There’s no word as yet on what position MasterCard is taking on cryptocurrency, but the fact they’re sinking a sizable amount of their corporate cash into lobbying efforts related to digital currency should raise a warning flag for cryptocurrency traders. If the companies sitting on the nation’s electronic payment system, Visa and MasterCard, feel digital currencies are a threat to the stealth tax they levy on nearly every electronic transaction made in America — and cryptocurrency most certainly is a threat to that monopoly — then Dark Wallet is a tailor-made PR talking point for corporate lobbyists wanting legislators to crush potential low-cost competitors.

It’s unlikely the push and shove in the quest for anonymity will end with Dark Wallet in any respect. Other Bitcoin developers could find a way to deny Dark Wallet transactions, setting up a developer arm’s race, and fracturing the Bitcoin user base between business interests and the more radical faction demanding absolute privacy. In the end Dark Wallet may be just one more wooden shoe in the machine of those pushing for Bitcoin financial legitimacy; another hurdle to overcome in their quest to see Bitcoin go mainstream.


Sources:
http://redteanews.com/2014/04/30/bitcoin-dark-wallet-the-excuse-regulators-needed/#.U2E4hvldXfI



-Redtea
Independent News for the Right-Minded American ::)


redteanewsdotcom

A good read and I thank you for sharing it with us.  I think Darkwallet is a steip in the right direction but willl most likely be used by those who fear crypto currencies.  I've got a feeling things are going to bet interesting over the next few months.

The only thing I dislike about DarkWallet is its name.  It is a sensible and important tool to enhance the privacy of bitcoin transactions. 

Imagine that you were a celebrity using bitcoin: every time you buy a coffee, TMZ is going to post the transaction if it gets the scoop!  Your obsessed fans would be trying to track your coins through the blockchain to identify where and when you are likely to eat dinner, shop, vacation, etc.  Coinjoin is a technique that would make it more difficult to be stalked by crazy people.  Privacy is important for our peace-of-mind and for our personal safety.   

At some point the hand of the regulators will be forced.  Is it really a smart idea to keep postponing it?  At this point I think the cryptocurrency community has the regulators completely outmatched.  I'm more than happy to hear about DarkWallet launching.

I agree...the name itself attracts attention IMO.   They should make it something that attracts less attention.   I definitely think that anonymity with transactions is very important, but it is a slippery slope because it will definitely be a target for gov'ts and an excuse to try and lay down the regulation or ban hammer.

The name is intentional, DarkWallet is created to be radical.
Something which draws less attention probably would have been wise....too late now.

Actually quite the opposite.

Radical is the winning strategy.

Remember that "government" is just a word - there is no monolithic entity with that name. Instead, there are a large number of individuals who all have their own individual goals and motivations. The extent to which they cooperate to enforce certain policies on the rest of the population is a function of how well their individual goals and motivations align with the goals of the organization itself.

Regulators can't stop Bitcoin any more than the RIAA could stop P2P file sharing, so there's no need for Bitcoin users to self-censor out of a misplaced hope that doing so will protect them.

Every time regulators attempt to stifle Bitcoin and are unsuccessful, Bitcoin will gain more credibility and more users - and very importantly many of those users will be "defectors" from the government side. As governments are finding themselves unable to stop Bitcoin, their organizations will slowly start to fill up with Bitcoin users. Identifying the positive feedback loop in this scenario is left as an exercise for the reader.

Provoking conflict with the regulators is, in fact, the best thing that can happen for Bitcoin in the long term.

http://www.wired.com/2014/04/dark-wallet/

These guys are pretty out of touch if they imagine that is any reason to take comfort.

I'd like to see someone make a more easily traceable wallet or coin...just as an experiment

Yes, but now is not a good time to do it. We should wait until there is more popular support.
 this sort of thing is very likely to turn the masses against Bitcoin

Fascinating point of view, justusranvier.  I think I may actually agree now that I see your logic. 

i like the incremental privacy bitcoin can provide

right now its psuedoanonymous, if bitcoins get attacked by the government, bitcoiners can update their wallet and get extreme anonymity or change how they move their bitcoins and create new wallets for every transaction. then bitcoins cant be traced.

I also feel the name is needed to attract people.  I think it is a double edged sword but if used correctly is could be a deadly "weapon".

  ;D

But seriously, rights are never given, they must be taken. Look at it this way: society consists of people, each trying to reach their goals and pushing in their direction. The more you push, the bigger area of freedom you'll get. In the long run only the power matters, the laws would just legalize the existing balance of power. That's why being submissive in the worst strategy ever. Yours is only what you can protect. If you don't push back,  if they feel no resistance, they'll come and take everything. It doesn't matter how hard you'll try not to give them an excuse, they'll find excuses when they want them. If we won't fight for privacy, we will get none.

This launched today right?   I believe I read somewhere that 5/1 was the launch date

+1

Yup, and you can find some discussion here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=591703.0

We've all known what Dark Wallet was intended to do.  It's been "Pending" for months.

But i would say its pretty fucking irritating and outright stupid for the two guys who made it to publicly state in articles that they welcome both the good and the bad, "even if that includes murders for hire and 911-esque terror plots".   Then to cap off those statments with a taunt  "Come get us" or "Just try and stop it".  

I mean freedom is one thing.  I get it.  But as an intelligent individual, morality and love for fellow humanity has to be mixed in with your freedom.

Make something free.  Don't be a fucking idiot and say you support terrorist plots or murders for hire.

You support freedom.  Not murder.   I assume.  

I dont know ...

On the plus side, maybe DarkWallet will be such a pussing anathema to the cryptocurrency world that the focus/fears/stigma from Law Enforcement will go there, and be pulled away from Bitcoin.

-B-

It really is all quite fascinating from my perspective.  I don't see this not becoming more of an issue as time passes.  I do worry about the negative impact but I suspect it will lead to some good discussions and the like.

Regulators gonna regulate.

The key is for the technology to always keep one step ahead of the slower process of regulation.

The trailer for the dark wallet makes it seem like it is geared for people in the movies who operate in the underworld...lol

I hope he enjoys water boarding

There's a market for it but I wouldn't use it and it also knocks all the work the world is doing to progress Bitcoin back a step..

I think its fantastic that Bitcoin can serve different markets. You can choose to be as open and transparent as you want and go through all the regulatory red tape or you can choose to use Bitcoin as originally intended, and no one can force your hand on how you choose to use it.

Why do you say that is how Bitcoin was originally intended?

Here is a good overview of Bitcoins historical roots coming from the crypto-anarchist and Cypherpunk movement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPY-5SR-jPQ

You sound like a jackass any time this issue comes up.  I'm sure Amir Taaki does not support terrorists or murders-for-hire.  However, it is REALITY that enhanced financial privacy also increases terrorists' financial privacy.  It's time to stop denying that.

The internet has empowered child molesters.  Now, instead of being isolated in their little neighborhood believing they're the only ones with that instinct, they can find other child molesters on the internet, hide out on chat rooms, talk about the best strategies by which to molest children, get away with it, etc.  I'm assuming you still believe the good that comes from the internet's existence clearly outweighs the bad.  If you expressed this opinion and someone said, "Don't be a fucking idiot and say you support child molesters!" wouldn't you think they were a jackass?

It's time to face up to reality.  Enhanced financial privacy for the everyday user enhances financial privacy for terrorists and child molesters.  That's a fact.  There's no use in denying it or pretending that's the case.  We're all adults here.  We can handle some imperfection in our world. 

When Newton wrote Principia, our understanding of the natural world was enhanced.  When cars replaced horse-drawn buggies, our mobility was enhanced.  When the assembly-line factory was invented, our productivity was enhanced.  When the internet was created, our capacity to acquire information and communicate with others was enhanced.  When bitcoin was created, our ability to store, transport and exchange value was enhanced.  

We adopt new technologies because they are useful.  Things that are useful are obviously useful for both good and for bad.  This has always been the case and is why whenever something new and useful comes around, certain groups fight it so hard.  In all my examples above, progress was fought by people based on fear.  With the Newton, it was heresy that a man could claim to understand the motion of the heavens, "for they are God's creation."  With the Internet, the web would become a haven for crime, terrorism and child porn.  

The fact that there is so much fear around bitcoin reveals that even those who fight it have subconsciously accepted how useful it will become.  

Dark Dollars are even worse.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Onedolar2009series.jpg/250px-Onedolar2009series.jpg

Have any of you installed the alpha version of this?   I'm curious to hear some feedback on how it works, and if you like it...

Dark Wallet is a great project and implementation.  The name works for what the functionality is but it is not going to help with messaging to the masses.  Cash Wallet might have been better since you really can't trace cash very well and then people might get it that it is just the same.  People who want to be off the grid use Cash.

This is not a product for the masses but those that wish to use the full benefits of what the block chain can offer.

Again, overall a good product.

I have. First deposit took 12 h. :)
It seems to work and looks nice, many people online (50-100).

There are legitimate, legal uses for every 'Dark' feature of this wallet software. The fact that there are illegal uses too is beside the point, vanilla Bitcoin Core can be used for illegal purposes too. On that basis, I disagree with those saying that the name should be provocative/evocative of criminality. It's like calling automobiles battering rams, or guns genocide slingshots.

sheep are so distgusting...why do you so want to please your masters? Regulators, politicians, governments ARE the problem not the solution. If you want to get your sheep on stick your money into a CD for .1% at bank of America ::)

this name dark wallet sux hard, but what to do.... they dont want change name, their fault, so dont use it as protest

+1

Thanks, that was interesting. It would be more helpful if Satoshi had said more about intentions in the whitepaper, although  I guess we can draw our own conclusions

I like it 

While the Dark Wallet is definitely an improvement in privacy of transactions,the negative publicity will probably worse for the mass adoption of Bitcoin. I mean,who wants to do anything with a currency that is used for doing illegal activities,as is how the media will inevitably report it because it creates a much larger buzz rather than simply portraying it as a currency that can be used to purchase everyday items as well. If the goal is mass adoption,then I'm not sure how much this will help. Secondly,the Blockchain was public in so many more ways than even normal currency,and this take that away,making Bitcoin truly anonymous. That can be one step forward and two steps back in so far as adoption by the larger population is concerned.

who said our goal is mass adoption? we see a new world possible and are singly focused towards our vision.
we're not going to paint over what we do with false gloss and weasel words.
more is at stake here than the price of bitcoin and a few american corporations.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=592356

I was not aware of the fact that regulators need excuses to regulate something.

But if this is the case we can blame all the regulating-bullshit on Amir, can't we?

AMIR, ALL THE REGULATING-EFFORTS TO COME ARE ENTIRELY YOUR FAULT!

Joe

Mass adoption will happen regardless of the media and regulation because of utility. Bitcoin gaining mass adoption should be open as a useful tool to everyone whether they want to be free or constrained with regulations. Ultimately, the framework of the code itself is anarchistic being open source, decentralized, and non-coercive(you can fork the blockchain at will) but if you want to use Bitcoin in government regulated way you are free to as well. 

A salient example of why utility and ease of use trump media, laws and regulations is torrents. Almost everyone I know has some pirated movie, song, or software on their computer despite their political persuasion, demographic, media negativity, or illegality of it. The ease of acquisition, the unenforceability of trying to control decentralized sharing, the lack of cumbersome DRM all make torrenting ubiquitous and unstoppable.

We shouldn't be overly concerned with regulatory fears because in gutting bitcoin and making it merely a more efficient version of paypal we defeat most of the core reasons it exists. Any government that changes course and makes bitcoin illegal at this stage will ultimately doom their country into falling behind economically. Widespread adoption will happen because we code and develop more user friendly and secure wallets and tools.

If you are unhappy with the branding of the darkwallet, than you should fork it and create a whitewallet with the exact same feature set and tools but different name. We should flood decentralized marketplaces like OpenBazaar and Darkmarket with legal products and services to bolster that their are many benefits and reasons we need in society to trade in a private and decentralized way.

Major props to Amir Taaki and Cody Wilson for their DarkWallet innovation.

I might also point out that https://BitLaunder.com offers a complete anonymization solution for Bitcoin as well :-)

+1

False.  The blame rests with the state; with those that create and impose the regulations.  Show some courage and direct your anger at those actually threatening you.

Good point.

We don't need to sell our souls just to speed up adoption of Bitcoin.

Just come up with some noble reasons for anonymity

• Funding whistleblowers
• Donating to charities that are not universaly popular
• Financial transactions by people who live in oppresive regimes
• Paying for medical treatment without creating documentation

noble reasons for anonymity
You have the right to live however you want, as long as you do not initiate force or fraud against others. ~N.A.P.

I don't need to explain myself to fascists and control freaks on why I want individual empowerment.
I refuse their game.

i do love some of those anit-government, anti-corporation, anti-anything people.

especially how the building they are living in was made by a corporation, the internet they use is through a corporations network, the electricity, their water, the clothes they wear, etc. you get the idea, all supplied by corporations.

until i see them living in a mud hut/hand built house on land they have personally bought, wearing clothes made from the wool of sheep that they have grazed, their food is killed or picked using their bare hands from animals and plants on their land.... they have nothing useful to say

umm we are? i dont think you know us.
some links for you:
http://calafou.org/
http://guifi.net/en/node/2413/view/map
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=191NzHmBjXI
http://cooperativa.cat/en/
see also http://cooperativa.cat/en/cooperative-public-system/catalan-supply-center/
i live my ideals as much as possible. check link in my sig too.
anti-state and anti-corporations does not mean abandoning civilisation. i'm pro-markets and pro-business and want competing governments that serve people.

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/how-to-market-bitcoin/
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoin-has-no-image-problem/

+1

Without proper brainwashing no one would vote on patriotic act so I guess there always need to be some kind of excuse. Even when it is rather insignificant. 

The war on drugs seems pretty oppressive to me.

And we can see how much successful the war on drugs is... I mean, successful in making drug lords and politicians rich.

You nailed it, well said and thank you.

Dear everyone,

Fear not, as we have already won (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY).

Love,

Beliathon

I'm all for a Bitcoin "dark" wallet. However, that logo, the eye within the triangle, is absolutely horrible. Most people think of the Illuminati when seeing that and that would deter many of them from using the darkwallet...A shame really..

There is no real borders in internet. At point when one country makes usage of bitcoin difficult we can always choose different one.

Dark wallet might get even banned and I wouldn't even care. It is not like we really need it that much.

Power of government in long run is limited, one way or another.

Good they have an excuse now. Bitcoin will go where it need to go. Now or tomorrow what's the difference ?
You are all in the fear of the downprice of bitcoin, because you own some, and you think it's gonna go to 50k$ with the help of government and why not wallstreet ? Yeah me i would like to be billionaire just because i spent few thousand dollars few months ago :D

But come on, bitcoin is way more than that. It's a game changer. If they start a "war" vs bitcoin it's will be a major publicity for this technology, people will start to ask themself "why ?" And when you try to REALLY understand what bitcoin is, you can only become an adopter.

What i'm trying to say overvall is simple if darkwallet it's possible it's only because bitcoin allow it, it's in the dna of this technology and if you think 20secondes about what is the real democracy you will understand there is no democracy possible without anonymity, do you want the NSA to work on new program to exploit the blockchain ? We need to protect the blockchain from that, or it can be a real problem in few years.

interview with cody and counter-terrorism mouthbreather,
http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/05/06/bitcoin-dark-money-dark-wallet

golden bits are at 27:30 and 37:00
lots of gold comments from liberals with fascist tendencies.
and some people want to bend their will or cut their tongue to "win" these people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1plPyJdXKIY#t=15

HAHAHA i assume you saw Amir's links!
You sir just got Servered! SON...!

That is not entirely true. Governments can and often do work together to try to reach common goals.

There are many treaties that have been signed by the US that can essentially make much of the internet "assessable" in the terms you are referring to to the US government and it's regulators.