|
Title: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 02, 2014, 08:46:16 AM The market is brooding for negative news from China, and there likely will be. In the mean time, the market may get over-confident just by chance. The earliest possible time of negative news from China is 4th May 8:00AM, which is 0:0GMT - it may be days or weeks after that time, but it won't be earlier for simply holiday reason. If the market price rise over 500$ without apparent good news before that time, it should be a mistake, and can be speculated upon. Even 450$ may be speculated upon. I am not making prediction here this time, only that I don't think there are not much to lose by this way - reverse position a while after 4th May if you feel unsafe. Each time Chinese influnce is smaller, I hope the Chinese influnce fade away quickly, to the point that we can simply ignore Chinese news, because I am looking forward to see a stream of negative news from China, and short pain is better than long one.
Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: yomofo on May 02, 2014, 09:22:55 AM are we expecting exchanges to announce the closing of operations?
Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 02, 2014, 09:49:01 AM are we expecting exchanges to announce the closing of operations? Not in the form of deny BTC withdraw. I am sure some of the exchanges are insolvent on the BTC side of their ledger, but if we look at short-term, it is not a problem for China, because too few uses use wallets, and exchanges are considered banks - effectively the exchanges assume the role too, and some given up convincing users to use wallet for safety - this there are liquidity on BTC side. (In case of a bank-run, users withdraw from one exchange and put it to another exchange, not into wallets - this happened in small scale before, and that would create a funny situation that exchanges may even work together). I am expecting negative news from government side and bank side - I've been fathoming which Chinese government. the reason why I expect so I wish to address in a full article that I haven't got whole blocks of hours to write critically due to recent eye injury. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: maurya78 on May 02, 2014, 09:53:33 AM Not sure I buy the short argument
Lot of the crap is priced in already, prices have been pretty resilient Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Siegfried on May 02, 2014, 09:54:05 AM are we expecting exchanges to announce the closing of operations? Not in the form of deny BTC withdraw. I am sure some of the exchanges are insolvent on the BTC side of their ledger, but if we look at short-term, it is not a problem for China, because too few uses use wallets, and exchanges are considered banks - effectively the exchanges assume the role too, and some given up convincing users to use wallet for safety - this there are liquidity on BTC side. (In case of a bank-run, users withdraw from one exchange and put it to another exchange, not into wallets - this happened in small scale before, and that would create a funny situation that exchanges may even work together). I am expecting negative news from government side and bank side - I've been fathoming which Chinese government. why I expect so I wish to address in a full article that I haven't got whole blocks of hours to write due to eye injury. What makes you so sure exchanges are insolvent on the BTC side? Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 02, 2014, 09:57:33 AM What makes you so sure exchanges are insolvent on the BTC side? Correction: I am sure -> I feel sure. The security breaches in year 2013 were numerous, and there is no accident this year yet; exchanges has not been honest enough on reporting heartbleed issue, should expect the same level of honesty in other security issues. On bitcoin events, some exchanges blame users for security issue and say they are good. These are negative signals on security. Also as I explaind, I think it not so important in the short term. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 02, 2014, 10:02:11 AM Lot of the crap is priced in already, prices have been pretty resilient Many thought the price contained all negatives but last Caixin's report draged it down 50$. The tone of the report was special - it is not a report from a financial media, but more like a report from PBOC, because of their choice of words, even in the commentary part, is inapproprate unless spoken by authorities. Which means, PBOC intends Bitcoin to be, as the report said, "collectable items for collectors", sourvenirs. PBOC would not act by itself if it really act what they say -> should expect bad news from other sectors than directly PBOC and should expect market responds to it - my humble opinion. I expect those who has not experience reading authority reports to overlooked its message, hence the market could make mistake, shorting on 500$ and 480$ before 4th May is a bet without much risk - me personally would do it even if 3rd May price is 450$. I don't see a reasonable short burst, you don't miss much by shorting. Reserve funds to bid at sub-40$ level can be useful. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: blatchcorn on May 02, 2014, 10:09:31 AM The market has had 5 months to price this in already ::)
Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 02, 2014, 10:11:17 AM The market has had 5 months to price this in already ::) Which means you ware caught by surprise a few times during the months, right? ( a really kind wink) I am not surprised even 1 time, because I predicted the saga by 9th Jan (China goverment will cripple bitcoin operation, posted on this forum) and I observed that this is not fully priced in till 11th April bottom (which I also predicted, on this sub-forum). I often find people tends to marginalize this world-most-wealthy-organization, like Chinese marginalize the Federal Reserve. PBOC has a vast ego like other top Chinese governments, However it's not my ego at work. I truly hope that: the day people don't care about China's news come earlier and that I found my knowledge of China useless. I try to be helpful: when I really think the next bottom is in I'll say that at the risk of being a bad fortune-teller. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: MatTheCat on May 02, 2014, 11:54:08 AM The market has had 5 months to price this in already ::) Which means you ware caught by surprise a few times during the months, right? ( a really kind wink) I am not surprised even 1 time, because I predicted the saga by 9th Jan (China goverment will cripple bitcoin operation, posted on this forum) and I observed that this is not fully priced in till 11th April bottom (which I also predicted, on this sub-forum). I often find people tends to marginalize this world-most-wealthy-organization, like Chinese marginalize the Federal Reserve. PBOC has a vast ego like other top Chinese governments, However it's not my ego at work. I truly hope that: the day people don't care about China's news come earlier and that I found my knowledge of China useless. I try to be helpful: when I really think the next bottom is in I'll say that at the risk of being a bad fortune-teller. Don't waste your breath debating with these retards zhangweiwu. Time and time again your input has proven both insightful into the workings of Chinese culture and also into the implications that it has had on Bitcoin price. Anyone with their heads screwed on will value any comments that you have to make. Let the Kool-Aid heads drink Kool-Aid and suffer the hangovers of their own stupidity...again....and again...AND AGAIN...and again and again and again and again and again........... Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: p0peji on May 02, 2014, 12:00:40 PM The market has had 5 months to price this in already ::) Which means you ware caught by surprise a few times during the months, right? ( a really kind wink) I am not surprised even 1 time, because I predicted the saga by 9th Jan (China goverment will cripple bitcoin operation, posted on this forum) and I observed that this is not fully priced in till 11th April bottom (which I also predicted, on this sub-forum). I often find people tends to marginalize this world-most-wealthy-organization, like Chinese marginalize the Federal Reserve. PBOC has a vast ego like other top Chinese governments, However it's not my ego at work. I truly hope that: the day people don't care about China's news come earlier and that I found my knowledge of China useless. I try to be helpful: when I really think the next bottom is in I'll say that at the risk of being a bad fortune-teller. Don't waste your breath debating with these retards zhangweiwu. Time and time again your input has proven both insightful into the workings of Chinese culture and also into the implications that it has had on Bitcoin price. Anyone with their heads screwed on will value any comments that you have to make. Let the Kool-Aid heads drink Kool-Aid and suffer the hangovers of their own stupidity...again....and again...AND AGAIN...and again and again and again and again and again........... +1 Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: yomofo on May 02, 2014, 12:20:32 PM The market has had 5 months to price this in already ::) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=315380.0;all zhangweiwu, predicted the start of the chinese bubble before it happened on October 21, 2013 when the price was still sub $200. Quote false signal resulted rally in China, and it won't stop. October 21, 2013, 05:29:00 AM Reply with quote #1 If you search the topic in baidu of the last week's price rise, and you search in Chinese, most posts and reports ascribe it to the recent adoption of bitcoin payment method by a web service of Baidu (jiasule.baidu.com). For example this report of sina.com (one of the biggest Chinese online news outlet): http://tech.sina.com.cn/i/2013-10-17/10248825635.shtml These reports suggests that the adoption by Baidu is a signal that the big vendors are accepting bitccoin - consider the close tie between baidu and central government, that the government may be interested too. It is like saying Microsoft or Facebook started to accept bitcoin. That tapped on the emotion and BTC rose. I think the big vendors are no way closer to accepting bitcoin in the last week than any weeks before. It is indeed a small change, and signals nothing from big vendors nor the central government at all. Chinese information technology vendors, including the big ones, in general prefer the studio model. A big company is devided into multiple studios, some companys have 100 studios. They each compete against each other. They compete on revenue and profit, within the embralla of a same company. Each studio find their own ways of making profit, and enjoy freedom of decision as long as they are making money. The mother company acts like a referee, dismissing unprofitable studios and buying out (admitting) small competitors to form new studios; the mother company also act as a protector, backing the studios with tremendous PR and governmental relationship power in case their competitor choose to fight on a different level (which also happens). This fast-proliferating fast-evoluting style isn't very co-ordinated, but it is effective because in general in China our culture emphasize competition, and we like to compete and win and we work the best if competition is physically next door. If instead big vendors are organized like Microsoft to co-operate and create huge products (Windows 7) in 5-year span, the youngsters wouldn't stay on their edge - they need quick confirmation whether they are wining or not - they work very hard but doesn't have much patience. Skipping between studios is frequent, the fast-growing studios get more resource and people. The recent acceptance of bitcoin is likely a decision of a single stuidio in the embralla of baidu, perhaps trying to beat other studios of the same company. Baidu HQs speaksman said nothing about bitcoin in the whole year. How Baidu HQs treats the move is unkown, and they probably don't have an attitude, for it (bitcoin) is trivial compare to the huge online information market they are already on. News interview suggests this is a decision of an individual studio: "We always try to satisfy the webmasters, so when they want to pay with bitcoin, we accept them". Notice the interviewee said 'webmasters', that's the customers of this studio, not Baidu in whole, and he speaks for his own studio. Also take notice the customer of this studio (jiasule.baidu.com), the webmasters, happen to be the major group of bitcoin miners in China. So why such a small piece of news that indicates nothing for sure, stirs up such a rally? More important than the news itself it says Chinese investors are desperately looking for a reason to rally. They perhaps expected bitcoin to be above 1000¥ for a long time, now they only need a slight upward vibrate to rally. And they have a good reason to hope for a rally, for they bought huge amount of mining equipments in anticipation of raise of bitcoin value. My reading of the event is, that Chinese investors are anticipating a rally for a long time, thus it won't cool down in just a few days. However they are speculating, not having much faith in sustanibility of bitcoin and may be frighten away by small bad news within China. They are less sensitive to western news like silkroad. In China we have highly centralized political power. The chance Chinese government allows bitcoin on the markets (when it calls their attention) is like the chance U.S. government raise debt in BTC. The big vendors foresee it and shouldn't be interested. Besides we have a monoplay business atomosphere in China (every player are greedy, wants to win and take all), and you don't monoplay bitcoin. I see no reason Baidu being interested to include bitcoin into their development strategy. Small vendors are much more likely to be interested in btc. (OP is a Chinese citizen in Beijing) Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: jcoin200 on May 02, 2014, 12:40:35 PM Thank you for your insight OP. Are you expecting another ~$50 drop, or more? I am not convinced the bear market is over yet, the downtrend is still very strong, with or without negative Chinese news.
Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: TERA on May 02, 2014, 01:09:28 PM I like to think of the sharp and persisted drops as a feature of the downtrend and not neccessarily a feature of the news. Notice that if a bad news occurs at a tipping point right on a the downtrend line, it will cause a sharp and persisted drop. But if the news occurs somewhere else where a drop is not supposed to occur yet, it will have a much lesser effect or no effect, or there will be an immediate rebound. The market just waits for excuses to do things.
As for news, the next wave of Chinese news will be when banks identify and close the specific accounts used by exchanges and not just posting a notice. After that, there will be news about how police get involved. Finally, there will be the exchanges themselves closing. Then there is news about topics completely besides china, such as goxcoins, hackercoins, and the government's 600,000 coins. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Biodom on May 02, 2014, 02:24:48 PM I like to think of the sharp and persisted drops as a feature of the downtrend and not neccessarily a feature of the news. Notice that if a bad news occurs at a tipping point right on a the downtrend line, it will cause a sharp and persisted drop. But if the news occurs somewhere else where a drop is not supposed to occur yet, it will have a much lesser effect or no effect, or there will be an immediate rebound. The market just waits for excuses to do things. As for news, the next wave of Chinese news will be when banks identify and close the specific accounts used by exchanges and not just posting a notice. After that, there will be news about how police get involved. Finally, there will be the exchanges themselves closing. Then there is news about topics completely besides china, such as goxcoins, hackercoins, and the government's 600,000 coins. Whatever, bud. Here is what is really happening: wealthy are steadily buying bitcoin-see secondmarket thread. Once it is almost all produced (93.75% in 10 years) and bought, it can only be redistributed. PBOC would be better thinking about ghost cities and overheated real estate in the mean time. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: leopard2 on May 02, 2014, 09:46:08 PM I don't understand the Chinese system. Maybe OP can elaborate.
PBOC is not a lawmaker and not a court. Can they even tell banks what to do? Over the PHONE!?! Is there no legal system in China? Why don't these banks and exchanges just continue to operate until they receive a court order, which they can then challenge? Nulla poena sine lege, not in China or what? Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Cassius on May 02, 2014, 10:49:16 PM I don't understand the Chinese system. Maybe OP can elaborate. PBOC is not a lawmaker and not a court. Can they even tell banks what to do? Over the PHONE!?! Is there no legal system in China? Why don't these banks and exchanges just continue to operate until they receive a court order, which they can then challenge? Nulla poena sine lege, not in China or what? Actually, the questions that you pose expecting the answer "no" - that's pretty much the case. Take a look at OP's articles on bitcoin.de. PBOC doesn't even tell the exchanges what to do. It expects them to understand what it wants without it needing to be that direct. The fact that it even needed to discuss it directly with smaller players was a major anomaly. And no, the legal system is not like the one we take for granted in the West. Bottom line, PBOC can and will choke the exchanges in China by denying them banking relationships. They're 'free' to carry out as much business as they want outside of that framework. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: leopard2 on May 02, 2014, 11:53:53 PM OK but what would happen if the exchanges would just say, can we have that in writing? Or speak to our lawyers?
Even if they could force them out of business eventually, it would take a lot longer than just "understanding what it wants" and complying without resistance. What would happen if they did not "want" to understand ? Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Arghhh on May 03, 2014, 12:57:13 AM The market has had 5 months to price this in already ::) Which means you ware caught by surprise a few times during the months, right? ( a really kind wink) I am not surprised even 1 time, because I predicted the saga by 9th Jan (China goverment will cripple bitcoin operation, posted on this forum) and I observed that this is not fully priced in till 11th April bottom (which I also predicted, on this sub-forum). I often find people tends to marginalize this world-most-wealthy-organization, like Chinese marginalize the Federal Reserve. PBOC has a vast ego like other top Chinese governments, However it's not my ego at work. I truly hope that: the day people don't care about China's news come earlier and that I found my knowledge of China useless. I try to be helpful: when I really think the next bottom is in I'll say that at the risk of being a bad fortune-teller. Don't waste your breath debating with these retards zhangweiwu. Time and time again your input has proven both insightful into the workings of Chinese culture and also into the implications that it has had on Bitcoin price. Anyone with their heads screwed on will value any comments that you have to make. Let the Kool-Aid heads drink Kool-Aid and suffer the hangovers of their own stupidity...again....and again...AND AGAIN...and again and again and again and again and again........... Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Cassius on May 03, 2014, 05:05:44 AM OK but what would happen if the exchanges would just say, can we have that in writing? Or speak to our lawyers? Even if they could force them out of business eventually, it would take a lot longer than just "understanding what it wants" and complying without resistance. What would happen if they did not "want" to understand ? That's just not how things are done. I'm sure OP can suggest some outcomes, but remember this is not about what the exchanges want. PBOC is instructing their banks, not them. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Wandererfromthenorth on May 03, 2014, 12:50:37 PM two questions for you:
1: Do you think this whole china situation will be finished by the 10th May deadline? Meaning that anything bad that can happen in china regarding bitcoin should happen within that deadline? 2: do you think that the long term bottom will in the end be the $340 that we have already seen? Do you think it is possible that we are going to break that? Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: jcoin200 on May 03, 2014, 02:52:43 PM two questions for you: 1: Do you think this whole china situation will be finished by the 10th May deadline? Meaning that anything bad that can happen in china regarding bitcoin should happen within that deadline? 2: do you think that the long term bottom will in the end be the $340 that we have already seen? Do you think it is possible that we are going to break that? Good questions. I'd also like to know if you think the opening of a usa exchange could offset the closure or insolvency of the Chinese exchanges? I've heard on here that one was in the works. Also if places like Argentina and Brazil adopting btc could help offset bad news out of China. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: segeln on May 03, 2014, 06:01:00 PM Fällt der Kurs jedoch auf Tages- und Wochenschlusskursbasis unter 335 $ ab, müssten Abgaben bis zum Unterstützungsbereich bei 250 - 270 $ einkalkuliert werden. Unterhalb von 200 $ wird es kritischer, dann droht ein Rutsch bis zunächst 120 - 130 $.
http://img.godmode-trader.de/charts/46/2014/04/d1316bitcoin-28.1.png http://www.godmode-trader.de/analyse/bitcoins-situation-spitzt-sich-zu,3730811 Translation: Quote goes the rate on a day- or week-basis under 335 $ then losses down to the the reistence range 205 - 270 " have to be considerd Under 200 " it becomes more critical than a downslide might go to 120-130 $ Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 07, 2014, 04:00:47 AM Speculators:
A week ago I said 480 was safe to short, I personally would short at 450$ too. If you decided to short anyway, your position now is good. I do not think the bottom of this May is not there yet, wait and it will get cheaper - but this time I am not as sure as I was when I predicted the 350$ bottom (which is precious to 24-hour). Judge for yourself - but you can also feel safe that it will not grow much higher before 10th May. two questions for you: 1: Do you think this whole china situation will be finished by the 10th May deadline? Meaning that anything bad that can happen in china regarding bitcoin should happen within that deadline? 2: do you think that the long term bottom will in the end be the $340 that we have already seen? Do you think it is possible that we are going to break that? The China situation will not be finished by 10th May deadline. The worst punishment has not yet happened. If the market rally after 10th May, it may be an opportunity to short again, but expect less profit than the guys who shorted by 16th May, because China impact is getting weaker and weaker. It is hard to say how much China's bad future influnces prices - I recently wasn't closely following how the world is developing, thus I have no facts to base my judgement. But I consider rise in Bitcoin price will get more punishment from PBOC, because PBOC intend to make Bitcoin look like a bad investment option - it is becoming a face issue. Keep in mind that PBOC has a large, large arsenal, and they didn't take out their big weapons yet. The Dec 2013 announcement showed PBOC has the backing of weapons outside of banking system. In Chinese words, this is a fight between an ant and a tree. There will be a day when our tiny tiny bitcoin doesn't shit this world's wealthest organization (PBOC) and their powerful friends. Bitcoin is not over. When I say 'punishment' I am speaking in the tone of PBOC. I cannot answer your second question as of now. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: frienemy on May 07, 2014, 08:59:19 AM In Chinese words, this is a fight between an ant and a tree. Ants and trees can coexist and even if the tree tries to threaten the ants, they might call their friends, the termites ;) But as you said, even if it gets lower, even if much lower, bitcoin is not finished. Chinese support would indeed be great, but in the long run bitcoin will survive with or without it. It's just so exhausting to see the prolonged attack from behind from PBOC, delaying the success of bitcoin. But maybe even this is a good thing in order to build up some infrastructure in the meantime. More ATMs, more businesses, more acceptance every day. More fuel to the rocket, no matter if the launch is this year or the next or 2016 or 2020. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: p0peji on May 07, 2014, 10:47:32 AM Just a short question as I am not Chinese and can only read it using Google Translate, which is far from optimal. I just went over to the Chinese sub-section of this board to see what their sentiment is concerning the PBOC and the whole exchange thing. For as far as I could tell, they are about as much in denial as the people on the speculation section. Could you please shed some more light on what you think is the current sentiment concerning bitcoin in China?
Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: BitchicksHusband on May 07, 2014, 07:17:15 PM Well, let's see. They released a joint statement today saying they are still doing business and the price really didn't dip all that much on May 4th.
Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 08, 2014, 02:41:07 PM Well, let's see. They released a joint statement today saying they are still doing business and the price really didn't dip all that much on May 4th. You are right. I am happy to learn this. I did not short it myself (because the price had not reached the line 480$ or 450$ which I marked for shorting), for anyone who did it anyway, I am inclined to think now is the time to reverse your position, in case the market rally by 10th May. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Cassius on May 08, 2014, 08:20:46 PM Well, let's see. They released a joint statement today saying they are still doing business and the price really didn't dip all that much on May 4th. You are right. I am happy to learn this. I did not short it myself (because the price had not reached the line 480$ or 450$ which I marked for shorting), for anyone who did it anyway, I am inclined to think now is the time to reverse your position, in case the market rally by 10th May. Have I missed something? Do you now believe they will be allowed to continue operating in some form? Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: Dalmar on May 08, 2014, 08:26:37 PM The joint statement of Chinese bitcoin exchanges mentioned that they will stop margin trading. This means that Chinese shorters have to close their positions soon and it might lead to a final short squeeze.
Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: windjc on May 08, 2014, 10:25:49 PM The joint statement of Chinese bitcoin exchanges mentioned that they will stop margin trading. This means that Chinese shorters have to close their positions soon and it might lead to a final short squeeze. They already closed. Thats why we got the run up. Title: Re: ardent speculators: consider shorting before 4th May 00:00GMT (that means 3rd) Post by: zhangweiwu on May 09, 2014, 01:00:28 AM "now is the time to reverse your position, in case the market rally by 10th May." Have I missed something? Do you now believe they will be allowed to continue operating in some form? No I did not think the bad news stops here and exchanges survive -- so slow it is to publish editorials, in which I should've explained a few days ago -- I think the market ignores China or feel reliefed for the moment, hence there is a possibility of small rally, and those who shorted should not risk getting themselves in the predicament.. Long term outlook for China is still bad. |
