Bitcoin Forum

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/winklevoss-twins-to-list-bitcoin-fund-on-nasdaq/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

[edit: Added coindesk article.  quotes below soley on first article]
http://www.coindesk.com/winklevoss-twins-plan-nasdaq-listing-for-bitcoin-etf-in-new-sec-filing/

What do you guys think about this becoming a possibility?  [a few excerpts below....most of the article quoted below ;D]

On Thursday, Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, the brothers most widely known for their legal battles with Facebook’s co-founder, Mark Zuckerberg, disclosed in a regulatory filing that they had chosen to list their Bitcoin exchange-traded fund, the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust, on the Nasdaq stock exchange.

The Winklevoss’s proposed fund would buy one Bitcoin for every five shares. The company the two operate, Math-Based Asset Services, would be in charge of storing the fund’s Bitcoin holdings. The company has not yet decided how much its management fee will be.

But until recently, investors had few options for speculating on that price change. The currency, which can be bought and sold among users or “unlocked” by solving complicated mathematical riddles, has no central regulator or bank. Buying Bitcoins also comes with the hassle of storing Bitcoins, which can involve physically securing a virtual “key.”

But the Winklevoss twins want to give investors an easier way into the market. Like SPDR, the widely used gold E.T.F., for example, investors would be able to invest in Bitcoin without having to actually buy and store the virtual currency.

“Our goal with this whole thing was to make it as similar to the gold E.T.F. as possible,” Cameron Winklevoss said in an interview. “We’re trying to reduce the friction of purchasing Bitcoin and securing it.”

But Mr. Luria sees Bitcoin’s wide price fluctuations as a risk for investors. Bitcoin isn’t the only commodity that trades 24 hours a day, but it does have wilder price shifts than many other assets.

“The fact that the S.E.C. has allowed the S-1 to progress this far is an indication that it may actually happen,” said Gil Luria, an analyst with Wedbush Securities who has studied Bitcoin, referring to the S.E.C. regulatory filing.

“The price could decrease tremendously after the market closes, and you won’t be able to do anything about it,” Mr. Luria said.

Those of us that have been waiting for this for a year think it's exciting to see it getting close.

Just hodl, you noob!

The financial press made clear that the route the twins were taking was going to be a long one.  This is exciting news and I'm glad progress is still being made.  An ETF is a little more flexible than a closed end fund.

From the article, if the SEC has allowed it to come so far means the Winklvoss ETF will become reality soon.

I am not sure it will be great for btc price, though - the twins have already ~100,000 btc, they will be basically selling their stash to investors. And some - many? - people considering buying btc on exchanges may decide to buy from the twins directly, to avoid the hassle of dealing with exchanges, cold storage etc.

So basically, the news is that early adopters will soon put 100,000 btc for sale - and that it may - or may not- attract enough new adopters to not to affect the price adversely.

Yep.

Would there be any advantage in buying shares in this ETF over just buying btc yourself?

Non technical people will not have to worry about their investment getting hacked and stolen.

and no need to transfer money to foreign exchanges for US-based investors. Disadvantage: it will be only traded during normal working hours while bit coin can crash or soar anytime.

Honestly, as long as it happens.  Hopefully it gets some interest and others follow etc.

I'm really interested in this...think it could be awesome exposure!

If it really happens, at the end of the day it seems to me a good news, with some exceptions.

I think that there are many people that would never get involved in Bitcoin without a fund or something similar on an official stock exchange.
I see it like Bitcoin is expanding in new "markets", bringing new people to bitcoin "awarness". And we tend to consider that a good thing.

On the other side, it's clear that these people are interested at Bitcoin only as an investment, and that wasn't exactly one of the reasons behind the Bitcoin idea.

I highly doubt they're planning to liquidate their position to fund this ETF. But even if they were, this would have a much more balanced effect on the market than liquidating through alternative means.

Any way you look at it, this ETF will cause the price of BTC to go higher.

Many people invest using traditional or roth IRA funds.  If this fund gets listed on an exchange then it will be easy for people to use their IRAs to invest in Bitcoin.

Ha ha ha, nice. :D

These are Bitcoin backed securities. Which means that the stocks sold will have to provably be backed by actual bitcoins.

So those bitcoins (200,000) will be held to back the securities.

This will bring in investors that can only deal with Wall Street funds. Big businesses and funds that would never buy bitcoins in a way that one person with the password or private key can steal all of the company's bitcoins.

This really does nothing for Bitcoin itself other than drive up the price.

Just what we need - more CFD-type trading assets so that "investors" can trade paper bitcoins from off in the distance without actually participating in and growing the bitcoin economy. These people are not going to buy anything, not going to circulate any coins, not going to add to the liquidity of the economy, not going to hold theirp rivate keys, and not going to get any of the financial freedom and security benefits from using bitcoin. What is the point? To pump the price up by introducing scarcity?

Wake me up when you can buy actual bitcoins on comex.

This is a good thing. The worst that will happen is the price remains unaffected and we get massive public exposure.

And yes, speculation and investment is part of what makes bitcoin bitcoin. Deal with it. It's a necessary step

What does trading do to make bitcoin economy grow? Of course this is great for the bitcoin economy. When there are more money and people involved, even through ETF, is good. More awareness etc.

so, bitcoin crypto string streaming on NASDAQ cables ...

so here is my digital "Salvador Dali" style ...paint art hehehe

http://i60.tinypic.com/sdihxx.jpg

I am not sure whether this Bitcoin ETF is a good thing...

First of all, I see the Winklevoss brothers selling a load of their bitcoin, off the exchange, without putting pressure on the bitcoin price. The price of the ETF will most likely rise in the near term because Wall Street fund managers, who previously were restricted from buying bitcoin from an exchange, may want mild exposure to bitcoins. Then I see their opportunity to manipulate the exchange price of bitcoin through this ETF, and/or future derivatives of this ETF.

So the tradition exchange is acknowledging Bitcoin beyond gaming money. When will be able to trade Bitcoin on NASDAQ ?

I think everybody plays "monopoly money" at some level ...

One step closer to full Wall Street adoption.  It is all slow and steady progress :)

Full wall street adoption is when I can buy an actual bitcoin with my brokerage account.

haha love it

And this is a baby step towards that

What's news here? The winkledouches announcement?
I mean, yes, I expect them to "intend" to do many things.

Or is there something actually happening of the sort of some kind approval from the regulators allowing the ETF?
Oh right, they want to become "Bitcoin Incorporated", and issuing shares on Nasdaq - I can't see a problem with that, except what kind of revenue is this Company supposed to generate and from what?  :D

Agree. Every time I read a PR from the Twinkies, it includes something about it appears that progress is being made and something is going to happen in the future. However,  it is actually entirely a speculation and a hope created by themselves. They use their own logic to deduce what the SEC is thinking and present this as if it were a fact.

They're also always writing something something incredibly bullish based on their opinions but presented as some kind of fact.  For example their latest twitter  "now that China is priced in"... what???  Is he Chinese? Is a professional global currency/arbitrage analyst? How could he possibly know if China is 'priced in' especially with the exchanges still running and accepting bank deposits? I think btc business owners tend to be very unprofessional.  If he actually ran a company regulated by the SEC, he'd probably get in trouble.

i just had to fix that  :D

They're forming an ETF not a company. Most commodity/currency ETFs don't have any income. GLD, USO, etc...

If they wanted income that badly though, all they have to do is lend out some of those BTC, like EU does with euros.