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Title: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: GigaBit on May 13, 2014, 03:56:43 PM I'll be first to say, I still have a lot to learn about BitCoin and mining in themselves.
I'd like to know if there's an association for BitCoin miners? There is one for Gold mining in every city, I couldn't find nothing about BitCoin mining... However, I see one thing that is hurting our own livelihoods, the exchanges. Although it can be looked as a double edged sword, I believe miners should unite, join forces and work with exchanges into paying what they should to miners. Sure exchanges bring more users but they aren't built ethically in my opinion. The way it works right now, you send coins from your wallet to the exchange. For traders, this means the start of a work week. Most of the time though, traders leave their money in their accounts over the weekend or whatnot, although you can trade any time, any day. If one trader trades 50 times a day, which is nothing for a professional day trader, think of all that money being transferred on the exchange itself that should technically be transferred by the miners, not the exchange!! We're being robbed out of thousands if not millions of dollars a day because the exchange is making the profit from the trades. Shouldn't we at some point say, hey, you exchange owners will need to start paying mining fees for all trades on exchanges because it's rightfully our livelihood! They charge per transaction and monthly charges. If BitCoin is to remain profitable for us we have to take back what's ours. If $10Bn is transferred a day, how much of that could be your pay? Are miners be able to stop transfers to exchanges? I would be shocked to know how much money exchanges encroached over the years. Is there a BitCoin Miners Association or something? I'm not spewing venom at any in particular, I'm fine with mine and sorry if I give the impression. That's why I gladly support satoshi dice because I know it's paying a miner somewhere and maybe even me. PS: Sorry for the regular updates of this text, I have serious vision problems... Title: Re: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: beatljuice on May 13, 2014, 04:44:38 PM And all those people using cash are stealing money from the banks! Banks have a lot of overhead and they keep the economy running. Quit using cash, it's so unfair!
Title: Re: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: BitBlitz on May 13, 2014, 05:01:44 PM I wouldn't call off-blockchain transactions stealing. Bitcoin can't force users to commit ALL side transaction to the blockchain.
On the other hand, everyone would complain if they bloated the blockchain with tons of transactions. Title: Re: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: DeathAndTaxes on May 13, 2014, 05:07:23 PM If one trader trades 50 times a day, which is nothing for a professional day trader, think of all that money being transferred on the exchange itself that should technically be transferred by the miners, not the exchange!! We're being robbed out of thousands if not millions of dollars a day because the exchange is making the profit from the trades. Self entitled much? The transaction occurring off network aren't using your service, it isn't costing you anything. Are people who pay by Visa stealing from you as well? What about people who keep funds secured in cold wallets and don't move them? Most people fund their brokerage or forex accounts by a single bank wire, are all those trader stealing from the banks because they don't use the banking network for every trade? Where do you get the idea that you have a right to profit? Profit is earned. If you want more transactions than encourage more adoption. You aren't entitled to a specific level of profit or even the guarantee that you will profit at all. Title: Re: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: guitarplinker on May 13, 2014, 09:58:45 PM If one trader trades 50 times a day, which is nothing for a professional day trader, think of all that money being transferred on the exchange itself that should technically be transferred by the miners, not the exchange!! We're being robbed out of thousands if not millions of dollars a day because the exchange is making the profit from the trades. Self entitled much? The transaction occurring off network aren't using your service, it isn't costing you anything. Are people whpay by Visa stealing from you as well? What about people who keep funds secured in cold wallets and don't move them? Most people fund their brokerage or forex accounts by a single bank wire, are all those trades stealing from the banks? Where do you get the idea that you have a right to profit? Profit is earned. If you want more transactions than encourage more adoption. You aren't entitled to a specific level of profit or even the guarantee that you will profit at all. It's exactly like stock exchanges, except IMO bitcoin exchanges charge smaller fees (0.25-0.3% per trade) than stock exchanges. Title: Re: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: ajareselde on June 11, 2014, 10:59:17 AM Exchanges are making a ton of money, but you need to realise that they also have a huge responsability to the comunity in securing all those funds.
When huge exchange is in question, it can also dictate rise/fall of the price just by keeping/selling their fees part that is in coins. Title: Re: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 15, 2014, 08:44:52 PM These are off chain transactions.
It would be normal and expected to do this. If all of the trades were done on the blockchain then the nodes would get overwhelmed. It would also lead to less privacy as you would know who is selling/buying Title: Re: Are Exchanges Stealing from Miners? Post by: slimus on June 16, 2014, 01:30:06 AM I'll be first to say, I still have a lot to learn about BitCoin and mining in themselves. I'd like to know if there's an association for BitCoin miners? There is one for Gold mining in every city, I couldn't find nothing about BitCoin mining... However, I see one thing that is hurting our own livelihoods, the exchanges. Although it can be looked as a double edged sword, I believe miners should unite, join forces and work with exchanges into paying what they should to miners. Sure exchanges bring more users but they aren't built ethically in my opinion. The way it works right now, you send coins from your wallet to the exchange. For traders, this means the start of a work week. Most of the time though, traders leave their money in their accounts over the weekend or whatnot, although you can trade any time, any day. If one trader trades 50 times a day, which is nothing for a professional day trader, think of all that money being transferred on the exchange itself that should technically be transferred by the miners, not the exchange!! We're being robbed out of thousands if not millions of dollars a day because the exchange is making the profit from the trades. Shouldn't we at some point say, hey, you exchange owners will need to start paying mining fees for all trades on exchanges because it's rightfully our livelihood! They charge per transaction and monthly charges. If BitCoin is to remain profitable for us we have to take back what's ours. If $10Bn is transferred a day, how much of that could be your pay? Are miners be able to stop transfers to exchanges? I would be shocked to know how much money exchanges encroached over the years. Is there a BitCoin Miners Association or something? I'm not spewing venom at any in particular, I'm fine with mine and sorry if I give the impression. That's why I gladly support satoshi dice because I know it's paying a miner somewhere and maybe even me. PS: Sorry for the regular updates of this text, I have serious vision problems... I think we will see soon more exchanges apply the maker-taker model, where limit orders get rewarded a discount on transaction, or even get paid a % of the transaction fees. Some Fx brokers apply this model, and pay there clients a fee each time a limit order get filled. This model brings more fairness and adds market liquidity. |