Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: turtlehurricane on May 15, 2014, 02:10:37 AM



Title: ...
Post by: turtlehurricane on May 15, 2014, 02:10:37 AM
...


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: q119108 on May 15, 2014, 04:15:30 PM
Bitcoin cloud mining services provide hashing power in exchange for Bitcoin. Cex.io is perhaps the biggest and most popular Bitcoin cloud mining service. You can buy 1 GH/s of mining power for 0.0071 Bitcoin


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: zolace on May 15, 2014, 04:50:28 PM
Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment - an article by The Cryptocurrency Times http://www.usacryptocoins.com/thecryptocurrencytimes/uncategorized/cex-io-the-largest-bitcoin-cloud-mining-service/

Seems is like just one big scam to me, I kinda figured unless you buy more then 3 TH you really wont make profit the ones that are in the game are the ones who been mining and with half there profits they keep investiing into more hashing power, thats the only strategy is that I see thats how senior miners  been doing it for a while have done it. 


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on May 15, 2014, 05:20:00 PM
Bitcoin cloud mining services provide hashing power in exchange for Bitcoin. Cex.io is perhaps the biggest and most popular Bitcoin cloud mining service. You can buy 1 GH/s of mining power for 0.0071 Bitcoin

Unfortunately, cex.io charges 0.007 BTC per year per GH/s as a maintenance fee. That is about what 1 GH/s will mine in a year!

Profit/loss per 1 GH/s over the next year:

Mining revenue+0.007
Cost-0.0071
Maintenance fee-0.007
Profit/loss-0.0071


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on May 15, 2014, 05:56:10 PM
I used to buy GH there with my mining payouts while waiting for enough to accumulate for an auto payout. It isn't worth it to do that now with the fees. The pool performance there has been rough this week too. 2-3 disconnects a day all week. 


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Cryptological on May 16, 2014, 02:31:44 AM
Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment - an article by The Cryptocurrency Times http://www.usacryptocoins.com/thecryptocurrencytimes/uncategorized/cex-io-the-largest-bitcoin-cloud-mining-service/

Seems is like just one big scam to me, I kinda figured unless you buy more then 3 TH you really wont make profit the ones that are in the game are the ones who been mining and with half there profits they keep investiing into more hashing power, thats the only strategy is that I see thats how senior miners  been doing it for a while have done it. 

The article headline is very negative biased. In the article itself it discusses the ability to trade the GHS and that is an advantage CEX has over other cloud miners. Just sitting on cloud hashing won't yield a decent enough profit regardless of wjo the provider is, same as just sitting on cash in the bank won't. I've only just tried it out myself, but can see how the mining and trading combnination works very well. .https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317001.msg6726473#msg6726473  (http://.https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317001.msg6726473#msg6726473)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Shogen on May 16, 2014, 03:55:35 AM
Bitcoin cloud mining services provide hashing power in exchange for Bitcoin. Cex.io is perhaps the biggest and most popular Bitcoin cloud mining service. You can buy 1 GH/s of mining power for 0.0071 Bitcoin

Unfortunately, cex.io charges 0.007 BTC per year per GH/s as a maintenance fee. That is about what 1 GH/s will mine in a year!

Profit/loss per 1 GH/s over the next year:

Mining revenue+0.007
Cost-0.0071
Maintenance fee-0.007
Profit/loss-0.0071

This.

In the past, cex shows the maintenance fee both in USD and as a % of mining revenue.
But now, the % is becoming so high that cex decided to hide it from customers lol. :D


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: komar on May 16, 2014, 12:59:00 PM
Forget about fees. Cex.io is unprofitable anyway.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=570396.0


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: murraypaul on May 16, 2014, 01:02:55 PM
The article headline is very negative biased. In the article itself it discusses the ability to trade the GHS and that is an advantage CEX has over other cloud miners. Just sitting on cloud hashing won't yield a decent enough profit regardless of wjo the provider is, same as just sitting on cash in the bank won't. I've only just tried it out myself, but can see how the mining and trading combnination works very well. .https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317001.msg6726473#msg6726473  (http://.https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317001.msg6726473#msg6726473)

You are just relying on the greater fool theory.
If CEX GHs aren't profitable, then eventually you will run out of fools to trade yours to.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: komar on May 16, 2014, 01:24:00 PM
You are just relying on the greater fool theory.
If CEX GHs aren't profitable, then eventually you will run out of fools to trade yours to.
And this is important: nobody realize that CEX GHs will not be in profit ever. Everybody thinks that cex.io is an "investment for the future", or "they're like stocks", or "it will give me bitcoins ever". The count of BTC given by any mining hardware is finite, and one CEX GH costs more than it could mine ever.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on May 17, 2014, 09:43:43 AM
"not a profitable investment"

That depends on WHEN you trade and to WHO for WHAT price.

Some people defensively made a profit there, buying the Ghz cheap and selling them expensive and in the mean time making profit from the BTC they mine. Right now it might not me a good time to buy Ghz there, but if one were holding Ghz it might be a good to sell them to some fool who pays overprice for it.

In the end someone will make a profit and someone will make a lose. Not to strange.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: hensi on May 19, 2014, 02:04:58 PM
Well certainly its not profitable in long term, as the difficulty increases the production decreases and the price of ghashes also go down, i lost 30percent of my investment over there. CEXIO is only beneficial for its owners.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: redwhitenblue on June 02, 2014, 04:54:48 AM
The profitability of GH/s purchased on cex.io is based on how much you pay for it.

If you pay a low enough price for GH/s on cex then over the long run you will earn more BTC then what you paid for them. If you pay too high of a price then you will incur a loss.

The problem is that the price has consistently been above what the GH/s are worth, and the price has not adjusted appropriately to the increases of difficulty. 

It is also possible to sell GH/s at a price that is above the "market" price on venues such as ebay and craigslist.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on June 02, 2014, 06:04:44 AM
The profitability of GH/s purchased on cex.io is based on how much you pay for it.

If you pay a low enough price for GH/s on cex then over the long run you will earn more BTC then what you paid for them. If you pay too high of a price then you will incur a loss.

The problem is that the price has consistently been above what the GH/s are worth, and the price has not adjusted appropriately to the increases of difficulty. 

It is also possible to sell GH/s at a price that is above the "market" price on venues such as ebay and craigslist.

Yeah the price is really out of whack with most cloud mining services. This one is a bit more than most.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: b2f on June 02, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
The profitability of GH/s purchased on cex.io is based on how much you pay for it.

If you pay a low enough price for GH/s on cex then over the long run you will earn more BTC then what you paid for them. If you pay too high of a price then you will incur a loss.

The problem is that the price has consistently been above what the GH/s are worth, and the price has not adjusted appropriately to the increases of difficulty. 

It is also possible to sell GH/s at a price that is above the "market" price on venues such as ebay and craigslist.

Hey, I am super new here, and this is my first post actually!

Unless someone can explain away this chart, It seems to me that I would rather have my BTC "stored" at CEX.io much like a savings account (you know, back when savings accounts paid interest to our grandparents). 

Ever since mid april the cost of a GHS at cex has slowly been going up.  Slowly, mind you.  But if you zoom all the way out, its a massive reversal over the steep downtrend.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cexio/ghsbtc

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 02, 2014, 07:53:39 PM
Unless someone can explain away this chart, It seems to me that I would rather have my BTC "stored" at CEX.io much like a savings account (you know, back when savings accounts paid interest to our grandparents).  

Ever since mid april the cost of a GHS at cex has slowly been going up.  Slowly, mind you.  But if you zoom all the way out, its a massive reversal over the steep downtrend.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cexio/ghsbtc

There are three things you don't understand.

1. You don't "store" bitcoins at cex.io. You are paying for a service that mines bitcoins for you. There is no guarantee (in fact, it is very unlikely) that you will get back as many bitcoins as you put in, even after you sell your shares.

2. The value of a share decreases as the difficulty goes up. The question is whether or not the revenue from a share will make up the drop in value. That is hard to predict, but the answer is most likely "no" at the current price unless conditions change drastically over the next few months.

3. People that don't understand #1 and #2 lift the price occasionally, but ultimately they lose their money to the people that do understand #1 and #2.


Also, bitcoinwisdom (and cex.io) only show prices for the last 30 days. Take a look at the complete range to get the real story: https://cryptfolio.com/historical?days=year&id=cexio_btcghs_daily


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: DeboraMeeks on June 02, 2014, 08:07:39 PM
They could just be functioning as a ponzi. Because you CANNOT get ROI they use funds that bought 'GHS' to pay out other investors and so on...


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: b2f on June 02, 2014, 08:39:10 PM
Unless someone can explain away this chart, It seems to me that I would rather have my BTC "stored" at CEX.io much like a savings account (you know, back when savings accounts paid interest to our grandparents).  

Ever since mid april the cost of a GHS at cex has slowly been going up.  Slowly, mind you.  But if you zoom all the way out, its a massive reversal over the steep downtrend.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cexio/ghsbtc

There are three things you don't understand.

1. You don't "store" bitcoins at cex.io. You are paying for a service that mines bitcoins for you. There is no guarantee (in fact, it is very unlikely) that you will get back as many bitcoins as you put in, even after you sell your shares.

2. The value of a share decreases as the difficulty goes up. The question is whether or not the revenue from a share will make up the drop in value. That is hard to predict. The answer is most likely "no" unless conditions change over the next few months.

3. People that don't understand #1 and #2 lift the price occasionally, but ultimately they lose their money to the people that do understand #1 and #2.


Also, bitcoinwisdom (and cex.io) only show prices for the last 30 days. Take a look at the complete range to get the real story: https://cryptfolio.com/historical?days=year&id=cexio_btcghs_daily

Awesome.  Thanks for the new chart!  

Right, I think I understand your point, so let me restate it: If I store my bitcoins in a paper wallet, they are doing nothing in the bitcoin ecosystem--appreciating or depreciating as the price of BTC/USD goes up or down.  If i put them on cex.io today, and use then to purchase GHS which I can then resell at what seems to be parity according to the current charts, even yours, and reinvest the mining profits, to buy more GHS, compounding "interest" if you will (though it's obviously not the same equation, but might be similar to DCAing), i would still do better to keep my bitcoins in a paper wallet, even if I can sell at parity, fees included?  

Correct me if I am wrong, but, accounting for diff, market price of BTC/USD, and market price of GHS/BTC, whether or not someone buys GHS on cex.io seems to me more like a personal adversity to mining risk or the risk/volatility associated with owning GHS.  In which case, if someone believed that sha256 ASIC mining markets have been completely consolidated, yes, even accounting for future 20%-50% diff increases or ponzi,  they would be bull in GHS.  If they thought sha256 ASIC mining markets where going to see a steep GHS/BTC price decline they would be bearish.  

So, my follow up question is this: what's the indicator i am missing which puts GHS as bearish when even your long term graph seems to have bottomed out?


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: DolanDuck on June 02, 2014, 08:45:24 PM
In this specific moment of bitcoin history, while the value is under the trendline, I think that holding is the best option.
This way you don't have any cares about scams, trading losses, mining worries.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on June 03, 2014, 07:35:18 AM
In this specific moment of bitcoin history, while the value is under the trendline, I think that holding is the best option.
This way you don't have any cares about scams, trading losses, mining worries.

Yep. Too many horror stories about cloud mining scams are out there. CEX doesn't seem scammish but I am not comfortable with leaving any bit coin anywhere but in my wallet and especially not there in the form of ghash that can plummet at any time.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 03, 2014, 12:05:47 PM
In this specific moment of bitcoin history, while the value is under the trendline, I think that holding is the best option.
This way you don't have any cares about scams, trading losses, mining worries.

Yep. Too many horror stories about cloud mining scams are out there. CEX doesn't seem scammish but I am not comfortable with leaving any bit coin anywhere but in my wallet and especially not there in the form of ghash that can plummet at any time.

It's not a scam it's been around for a long time. However if it's a good deal or not, that's another question.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 03, 2014, 06:16:06 PM
So, my follow up question is this: what's the indicator i am missing which puts GHS as bearish when even your long term graph seems to have bottomed out?

You are not missing an indicator. You simply are not looking at the numbers that you have.

You have not attempted to answer the most important question: If you invest now, how much will you make? Look back a few posts, you may find an answer.

You also haven't validated your assumptions. Let me help you. If you bought 1 GH/s on January 2, 2014:

Buy on 1/2/2014-0.0417
Revenue0.0258
Sell on 6/3/20140.0072
-----------------------------------
Profit-0.0087 (-20.1%)

Also, the graph has not "bottomed out". That is a horrible misinterpretation. The price will continue to drop as the difficulty rises. It only looks like it has bottomed out because it has dropped so much.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: b2f on June 03, 2014, 08:07:00 PM
You are not missing an indicator. You simply are not looking at the numbers that you have.

You have not attempted to answer the most important question: If you invest now, how much will you make? Look back a few posts, you may find an answer.

You also haven't validated your assumptions. Let me help you. If you bought 1 GH/s on January 2, 2014:

Buy on 1/2/2014-0.0417
Revenue0.0258
Sell on 6/3/20140.0072
-----------------------------------
Profit-0.0087 (-20.1%)

Also, the graph has not "bottomed out". That is a horrible misinterpretation. The price will continue to drop as the difficulty rises. It only looks like it has bottomed out because it has dropped so much.

Hmm.  Ok.  I get what you are saying... and can read the numbers clearly... but something in me still doesn't agree...

Take this example for 1GHS:

Buy on 4/29/2014-0.006313
Revenue(I am too lazy to do the mining math but even at a 50% fee, revenue is still positive)
Sell on 6/3/20140.0072
-----------------------------------
Profit0.000887 + mining gains (however small)

In this case, the buyer makes BTC.  To me, it seems like your argument was offering the standard don't "buy high and sell low." But again, perhaps I am missing something.  This is why it looks like to me, the market has consolidated and has accounted for future increase in difficulty, etc.  At .0072/GHS/BTC * 670$/BTC is $4.82/GHS. On ebay, the cheapest ASIC i saw was $400 for 180GHS ($2.2/GHS), but that is invalid because of economies of scale. The average was ~$5-8/GHS for 2-4GHS ASICs. Which is to say, CEX.io is cheaper then actually buying an ASIC miner for small fries, and it offers them liquidity, which physical ASICs can't--e.g. it becomes a high volatility savings vehicle for diversifying.

I imagine that unless there is a massive run up in BTC price soon, it will quickly become unfeasible for companies to make ASIC miners as electricity cost make them not worth buying, limiting supply, and stabilizing the price--actually I am pretty sure this has already happened--as cex.io no longer offers futures contracts. Again, it seems like CEX.io has consolidated and bottomed out to me. And no, to me, it looks like the graph has bottomed not because it has dropped so much, but because the rate at which it dropped was decreasing, indicating that is was nearing a limit/equilibrium.

But... I guess that is the ultimate trump card isn't it? We are all in this game because we think BTC will go "TO DA MOON." in which case, "To Da Moon" will be followed by massive and very temporary GHS mark ups and then more massive ASIC creation and steep GHS mark downs.

My two sats at least.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on June 03, 2014, 11:30:52 PM
You are not missing an indicator. You simply are not looking at the numbers that you have.

You have not attempted to answer the most important question: If you invest now, how much will you make? Look back a few posts, you may find an answer.

You also haven't validated your assumptions. Let me help you. If you bought 1 GH/s on January 2, 2014:

Buy on 1/2/2014-0.0417
Revenue0.0258
Sell on 6/3/20140.0072
-----------------------------------
Profit-0.0087 (-20.1%)

Also, the graph has not "bottomed out". That is a horrible misinterpretation. The price will continue to drop as the difficulty rises. It only looks like it has bottomed out because it has dropped so much.

Hmm.  Ok.  I get what you are saying... and can read the numbers clearly... but something in me still doesn't agree...

Take this example for 1GHS:

Buy on 4/29/2014-0.006313
Revenue(I am too lazy to do the mining math but even at a 50% fee, revenue is still positive)
Sell on 6/3/20140.0072
-----------------------------------
Profit0.000887 + mining gains (however small)

In this case, the buyer makes BTC.  To me, it seems like your argument was offering the standard don't "buy high and sell low." But again, perhaps I am missing something.  This is why it looks like to me, the market has consolidated and has accounted for future increase in difficulty, etc.  At .0072/GHS/BTC * 670$/BTC is $4.82/GHS. On ebay, the cheapest ASIC i saw was $400 for 180GHS ($2.2/GHS), but that is invalid because of economies of scale. The average was ~$5-8/GHS for 2-4GHS ASICs. Which is to say, CEX.io is cheaper then actually buying an ASIC miner for small fries, and it offers them liquidity, which physical ASICs can't--e.g. it becomes a high volatility savings vehicle for diversifying.

I imagine that unless there is a massive run up in BTC price soon, it will quickly become unfeasible for companies to make ASIC miners as electricity cost make them not worth buying, limiting supply, and stabilizing the price--actually I am pretty sure this has already happened--as cex.io no longer offers futures contracts. Again, it seems like CEX.io has consolidated and bottomed out to me. And no, to me, it looks like the graph has bottomed not because it has dropped so much, but because the rate at which it dropped was decreasing, indicating that is was nearing a limit/equilibrium.

But... I guess that is the ultimate trump card isn't it? We are all in this game because we think BTC will go "TO DA MOON." in which case, "To Da Moon" will be followed by massive and very temporary GHS mark ups and then more massive ASIC creation and steep GHS mark downs.

My two sats at least.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!

The herd mentality there is amazing. It wasn't that long ago when GHS were going at .12 in their market. 


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: SecureErase on June 05, 2014, 03:52:40 AM
You are not missing an indicator. You simply are not looking at the numbers that you have.

You have not attempted to answer the most important question: If you invest now, how much will you make? Look back a few posts, you may find an answer.

You also haven't validated your assumptions. Let me help you. If you bought 1 GH/s on January 2, 2014:

Buy on 1/2/2014-0.0417
Revenue0.0258
Sell on 6/3/20140.0072
-----------------------------------
Profit-0.0087 (-20.1%)

Also, the graph has not "bottomed out". That is a horrible misinterpretation. The price will continue to drop as the difficulty rises. It only looks like it has bottomed out because it has dropped so much.

Hmm.  Ok.  I get what you are saying... and can read the numbers clearly... but something in me still doesn't agree...

Take this example for 1GHS:

Buy on 4/29/2014-0.006313
Revenue(I am too lazy to do the mining math but even at a 50% fee, revenue is still positive)
Sell on 6/3/20140.0072
-----------------------------------
Profit0.000887 + mining gains (however small)

In this case, the buyer makes BTC.  To me, it seems like your argument was offering the standard don't "buy high and sell low." But again, perhaps I am missing something.  This is why it looks like to me, the market has consolidated and has accounted for future increase in difficulty, etc.  At .0072/GHS/BTC * 670$/BTC is $4.82/GHS. On ebay, the cheapest ASIC i saw was $400 for 180GHS ($2.2/GHS), but that is invalid because of economies of scale. The average was ~$5-8/GHS for 2-4GHS ASICs. Which is to say, CEX.io is cheaper then actually buying an ASIC miner for small fries, and it offers them liquidity, which physical ASICs can't--e.g. it becomes a high volatility savings vehicle for diversifying.

I imagine that unless there is a massive run up in BTC price soon, it will quickly become unfeasible for companies to make ASIC miners as electricity cost make them not worth buying, limiting supply, and stabilizing the price--actually I am pretty sure this has already happened--as cex.io no longer offers futures contracts. Again, it seems like CEX.io has consolidated and bottomed out to me. And no, to me, it looks like the graph has bottomed not because it has dropped so much, but because the rate at which it dropped was decreasing, indicating that is was nearing a limit/equilibrium.

But... I guess that is the ultimate trump card isn't it? We are all in this game because we think BTC will go "TO DA MOON." in which case, "To Da Moon" will be followed by massive and very temporary GHS mark ups and then more massive ASIC creation and steep GHS mark downs.

My two sats at least.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!

Hey b2f, Its all in the timing and having a plan. If you just buy GHS sit back and wait for the mega profits to roll in then you won't be happy, because difficulty rises, total hash power rises negatively impacting your situation. But if you have a plan in place to trade and mine then CEX offers that opportunity to profit from both. Even CEX themselves advise such http://blog.cex.io/the-secret-of-ghs-price/
You are right in your calcs, you are looking at the here and now and calculating profit is possible if you at least approach it with a plan.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Harley997 on June 09, 2014, 03:34:47 AM
Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment - an article by The Cryptocurrency Times http://www.usacryptocoins.com/thecryptocurrencytimes/uncategorized/cex-io-the-largest-bitcoin-cloud-mining-service/

Mining in general is not profitable unless you can command discounts from the manufacturers of the mining equipment (you would also need to be able to order enough equipment in order to get them to ship to your first).

Cloud mining is even more unprofitable because people are willing to pay a premium that is not deserved.

The article was correct to say that the price is GH/s decreased substantially from last year, however it failed to take into consideration the rewards that were earned from mining during this period.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: AceWallen on June 09, 2014, 05:17:53 AM
it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on June 09, 2014, 06:39:19 AM
it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

New people to the bit coin world are particularly susceptible. I know I made the same mistake when I got in. Luckily my math inclined wife helped me break down the numbers and realize they were not a good deal.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: leezay on June 09, 2014, 07:30:15 AM
Some people just want to try it out before committing larger capital for ASIC miner.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 09, 2014, 05:48:09 PM
it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

Yes this is so true. Everyone most me smart and do their own calculations when they choose to invest in something like mining.

Some people just want to try it out before committing larger capital for ASIC miner.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on June 09, 2014, 07:38:20 PM
it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

Yes this is so true. Everyone most me smart and do their own calculations when they choose to invest in something like mining.

Some people just want to try it out before committing larger capital for ASIC miner.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard.

Avoiding cloud mining altogether works for me. I don't have to trust anyone but myself. 


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: jeffersonairplane on June 09, 2014, 08:03:06 PM
it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

Yes this is so true. Everyone most me smart and do their own calculations when they choose to invest in something like mining.

Some people just want to try it out before committing larger capital for ASIC miner.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard.

Avoiding cloud mining altogether works for me. I don't have to trust anyone but myself. 

That's so stupid. There are plenty of trustworthy cloud mining operations going.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: makebitcoin on June 09, 2014, 08:45:10 PM
I recently fell into the trap of investing there. I got eaten up in maintenance fees. Stuff like this is really working against Bitcoin. There have been a ton of big scams. I'm thinking pirate, Gox, BFL etc.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on June 09, 2014, 08:56:28 PM
it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

Yes this is so true. Everyone most me smart and do their own calculations when they choose to invest in something like mining.

Some people just want to try it out before committing larger capital for ASIC miner.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard.

Avoiding cloud mining altogether works for me. I don't have to trust anyone but myself. 

That's so stupid. There are plenty of trustworthy cloud mining operations going.

Throwing good money after bad is even more stupid. Basic math tells you that cloud mining is a very poor investment.   



Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Ron~Popeil on June 09, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
I recently fell into the trap of investing there. I got eaten up in maintenance fees. Stuff like this is really working against Bitcoin. There have been a ton of big scams. I'm thinking pirate, Gox, BFL etc.

Yeah. You are better off finding some investment opportunities or just holding. 


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 02:53:43 AM
it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

Yes this is so true. Everyone most me smart and do their own calculations when they choose to invest in something like mining.

Some people just want to try it out before committing larger capital for ASIC miner.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard.

Avoiding cloud mining altogether works for me. I don't have to trust anyone but myself. 

That's so stupid. There are plenty of trustworthy cloud mining operations going.

Even if a cloud mining operation is trustworthy, you would not have control over your mining power.

Cex is probably the most trustworthy (and biggest) cloud mining operation however you can not do anything but sell your GH/s when they start to get close to 51% of the hashpower.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: sukamasoto on June 12, 2014, 04:41:25 PM
you are right
I've tried mining cloud over there and I felt no benefit at all because too many fees


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 12, 2014, 05:42:14 PM
you are right
I've tried mining cloud over there and I felt no benefit at all because too many fees

It is not just the fees, it is that the price that most cloud mining companies sell their contracts are at a level where the rate of difficulty increases would need to slow substantially.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: bigbeninlondon on June 12, 2014, 09:23:04 PM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 13, 2014, 07:01:30 AM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.



If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: FlyForFun on June 13, 2014, 10:32:43 AM
The main point of them providing cloud mining service is for them to profit not the customer :)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ljudotina on June 13, 2014, 02:07:06 PM
The main point of them providing cloud mining service is for them to profit not the customer :)

It goes like this:
First they buy hardware and mine for temselves while its profitable. Once it gets to barely profitable they offer it to market on ridiculous price. They sell their hardware for GOOD money so they earn twice. For that money they buy mor hardware and cicrle starts again.
In adiditon to that, they dont need to care about hardware economics asthey take BTC for electirc bill, and they will keep it going on as long as you are willing to pay the bill. They take some extra too so they profit on that too.
It's win / win / win situation for them.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 13, 2014, 04:11:10 PM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.
If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.

Please provide an example of how that might work. I think you will discover that it only works if the customer loses money.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Este Nuno on June 13, 2014, 06:11:07 PM
If you buy Cex.io shares on a big dip and then sell them on a big up shot, could you make money that way? It seems like it's just another way to gamble with your btc, no?


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Harley997 on June 13, 2014, 11:40:00 PM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.
If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.

Please provide an example of how that might work. I think you will discover that it only works if the customer loses money.

If it cost them .01 BTC to make/buy 10 GH/s worth of mining equipment but can sell that equipment on cex.io for .07 BTC then they just made .06 BTC, they then use that .07 BTC to build/buy 70 GH/s and sell that for .49 BTC, and so on and so forth. The only difference is that the amounts are much greater (I am not sure about the profit margins though).


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 14, 2014, 06:48:44 AM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.
If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.

Please provide an example of how that might work. I think you will discover that it only works if the customer loses money.

If it cost them .01 BTC to make/buy 10 GH/s worth of mining equipment but can sell that equipment on cex.io for .07 BTC then they just made .06 BTC, they then use that .07 BTC to build/buy 70 GH/s and sell that for .49 BTC, and so on and so forth. The only difference is that the amounts are much greater (I am not sure about the profit margins though).

Suppose they can use the equipment to mine 0.08 BTC instead. Then why sell it 0.07 BTC? They make less money. And if they sell it for 0.07 BTC because it can only mine 0.06 BTC, then the customer loses.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: validium on June 14, 2014, 09:51:30 AM
I'd rather invest in a HYIP (very risky, but don't gamble more than what your willing to lose) at the of the day i will get my share. Cloud mining is not profitable and most professional bitcoiners know this.

it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

New people to the bit coin world are particularly susceptible. I know I made the same mistake when I got in. Luckily my math inclined wife helped me break down the numbers and realize they were not a good deal.

I also fell for it


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: zwickl on June 14, 2014, 11:20:15 AM
I'd rather invest in a HYIP (very risky, but don't gamble more than what your willing to lose) at the of the day i will get my share. Cloud mining is not profitable and most professional bitcoiners know this.

As it's hardly profitable to have your own rig right now, how could it be profitable to rent one. That said, the margin would be so small that it is just a waste of money and time imo.

it's true. it's a terrible investment. i can see why people get duped into it, since they don't want to buy/build/operate their own rigs. but they must not do the math....

New people to the bit coin world are particularly susceptible. I know I made the same mistake when I got in. Luckily my math inclined wife helped me break down the numbers and realize they were not a good deal.

In the end the smartest move seems buy & hold. Very boring for a beginner (like me) as bitcoin is mistakingly seen as a easy money making heaven.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: validium on June 14, 2014, 12:12:06 PM
The main point of them providing cloud mining service is for them to profit not the customer :)

It goes like this:
First they buy hardware and mine for temselves while its profitable. Once it gets to barely profitable they offer it to market on ridiculous price. They sell their hardware for GOOD money so they earn twice. For that money they buy mor hardware and cicrle starts again.
In adiditon to that, they dont need to care about hardware economics asthey take BTC for electirc bill, and they will keep it going on as long as you are willing to pay the bill. They take some extra too so they profit on that too.
It's win / win / win situation for them.
^^ sums its up
Theres is not that much difference between cloud mining companies and ponzis


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Yakamoto on June 14, 2014, 01:17:19 PM
Ok I'm gonna say that I "fell" for this too, but I did the math, and I'm making money...

I have honestly tried my hardest to find places where I lose my money, but the math says I am going up, consistently. Now I do also trade the hashes, but still. I've been holding a few hashes recently as the price is on an up trend, and I'm getting really nice ROIs.

Someone explain why it is such a bad investment though? I read the thread, but am I THAT different from everyone else in their experiences?

I checked everything; I'm making money. So I don't see what the problem is.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: joshraban76 on June 14, 2014, 02:21:16 PM
The question is, where could it profitable for cloud mining instead of cex.io ?

I don't think PBmining is legit and I don't the contract issue.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 15, 2014, 09:35:51 AM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.
If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.

Please provide an example of how that might work. I think you will discover that it only works if the customer loses money.

If it cost them .01 BTC to make/buy 10 GH/s worth of mining equipment but can sell that equipment on cex.io for .07 BTC then they just made .06 BTC, they then use that .07 BTC to build/buy 70 GH/s and sell that for .49 BTC, and so on and so forth. The only difference is that the amounts are much greater (I am not sure about the profit margins though).

Suppose they can use the equipment to mine 0.08 BTC instead. Then why sell it 0.07 BTC? They make less money. And if they sell it for 0.07 BTC because it can only mine 0.06 BTC, then the customer loses.


Example: They buy 1GH of mining power for 1BTC.
Instead of waiting for the 1GH to generate 1BTC they sell it for 1.2BTC.
Then they use that 1.2BTC to buy another 1.2GH of mining power.
They sell that 1.2GH for 1.5BTC.
That 1.5BTC they buy another 1.5GH.
Now they got 0.5BTC and 1.5GH of mining power. They sell that 1.5GH, buy more GH and it goes on. Hope you understand me.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 15, 2014, 07:18:30 PM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.
If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.

Please provide an example of how that might work. I think you will discover that it only works if the customer loses money.

If it cost them .01 BTC to make/buy 10 GH/s worth of mining equipment but can sell that equipment on cex.io for .07 BTC then they just made .06 BTC, they then use that .07 BTC to build/buy 70 GH/s and sell that for .49 BTC, and so on and so forth. The only difference is that the amounts are much greater (I am not sure about the profit margins though).

Suppose they can use the equipment to mine 0.08 BTC instead. Then why sell it 0.07 BTC? They make less money. And if they sell it for 0.07 BTC because it can only mine 0.06 BTC, then the customer loses.


Example: They buy 1GH of mining power for 1BTC.
Instead of waiting for the 1GH to generate 1BTC they sell it for 1.2BTC.
Then they use that 1.2BTC to buy another 1.2GH of mining power.
They sell that 1.2GH for 1.5BTC.
That 1.5BTC they buy another 1.5GH.
Now they got 0.5BTC and 1.5GH of mining power. They sell that 1.5GH, buy more GH and it goes on. Hope you understand me.

I understand you, but you are ignoring the people they sell the GH/s to. Show me how the customers make money in your scenario and I'll show you why cex.io is losing money.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 16, 2014, 03:43:12 AM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.
If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.

Please provide an example of how that might work. I think you will discover that it only works if the customer loses money.

If it cost them .01 BTC to make/buy 10 GH/s worth of mining equipment but can sell that equipment on cex.io for .07 BTC then they just made .06 BTC, they then use that .07 BTC to build/buy 70 GH/s and sell that for .49 BTC, and so on and so forth. The only difference is that the amounts are much greater (I am not sure about the profit margins though).

Suppose they can use the equipment to mine 0.08 BTC instead. Then why sell it 0.07 BTC? They make less money. And if they sell it for 0.07 BTC because it can only mine 0.06 BTC, then the customer loses.


Example: They buy 1GH of mining power for 1BTC.
Instead of waiting for the 1GH to generate 1BTC they sell it for 1.2BTC.
Then they use that 1.2BTC to buy another 1.2GH of mining power.
They sell that 1.2GH for 1.5BTC.
That 1.5BTC they buy another 1.5GH.
Now they got 0.5BTC and 1.5GH of mining power. They sell that 1.5GH, buy more GH and it goes on. Hope you understand me.

How are they able to buy the GH/s for less then they can sell it for over and over again? Wouldn't they need to wait for the price to move in their favor?


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 16, 2014, 06:31:06 AM
The way I see it, if a cloud mining service can make more money mining then what they're charging, then they'd just mine.  Having me pay them to mine for me seems like I'm losing out.
If they can sell their GH for BTC and buy more GH for those BTC they might make more money than if they just mine them self.

Please provide an example of how that might work. I think you will discover that it only works if the customer loses money.

If it cost them .01 BTC to make/buy 10 GH/s worth of mining equipment but can sell that equipment on cex.io for .07 BTC then they just made .06 BTC, they then use that .07 BTC to build/buy 70 GH/s and sell that for .49 BTC, and so on and so forth. The only difference is that the amounts are much greater (I am not sure about the profit margins though).

Suppose they can use the equipment to mine 0.08 BTC instead. Then why sell it 0.07 BTC? They make less money. And if they sell it for 0.07 BTC because it can only mine 0.06 BTC, then the customer loses.


Example: They buy 1GH of mining power for 1BTC.
Instead of waiting for the 1GH to generate 1BTC they sell it for 1.2BTC.
Then they use that 1.2BTC to buy another 1.2GH of mining power.
They sell that 1.2GH for 1.5BTC.
That 1.5BTC they buy another 1.5GH.
Now they got 0.5BTC and 1.5GH of mining power. They sell that 1.5GH, buy more GH and it goes on. Hope you understand me.

I understand you, but you are ignoring the people they sell the GH/s to. Show me how the customers make money in your scenario and I'll show you why cex.io is losing money.

Say they buy it for 1GH/1BTC and sell it for 1.2BTC/1GH. It's simple


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 16, 2014, 07:58:43 AM
Example: They buy 1GH of mining power for 1BTC.
Instead of waiting for the 1GH to generate 1BTC they sell it for 1.2BTC.
Then they use that 1.2BTC to buy another 1.2GH of mining power.
They sell that 1.2GH for 1.5BTC.
That 1.5BTC they buy another 1.5GH.
Now they got 0.5BTC and 1.5GH of mining power. They sell that 1.5GH, buy more GH and it goes on. Hope you understand me.

I understand you, but you are ignoring the people they sell the GH/s to. Show me how the customers make money in your scenario and I'll show you why cex.io is losing money.

Say they buy it for 1GH/1BTC and sell it for 1.2BTC/1GH. It's simple

Well, they can't buy it for 1 BTC if cex.io is selling it for 1.2 BTC in your example.

Anyway, I don't know how to make the point any clearer: If 1 GH/s can mine X BTC, then it doesn't make sense for cex.io to sell it for less than X, and it doesn't make sense for a customer to buy it for more than X.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 16, 2014, 09:22:03 AM
Example: They buy 1GH of mining power for 1BTC.
Instead of waiting for the 1GH to generate 1BTC they sell it for 1.2BTC.
Then they use that 1.2BTC to buy another 1.2GH of mining power.
They sell that 1.2GH for 1.5BTC.
That 1.5BTC they buy another 1.5GH.
Now they got 0.5BTC and 1.5GH of mining power. They sell that 1.5GH, buy more GH and it goes on. Hope you understand me.

I understand you, but you are ignoring the people they sell the GH/s to. Show me how the customers make money in your scenario and I'll show you why cex.io is losing money.

Say they buy it for 1GH/1BTC and sell it for 1.2BTC/1GH. It's simple

Well, they can't buy it for 1 BTC if cex.io is selling it for 1.2 BTC in your example.

Anyway, I don't know how to make the point any clearer: If 1 GH/s can mine X BTC, then it doesn't make sense for cex.io to sell it for less than X, and it doesn't make sense for a customer to buy it for more than X.


It does since they will get their BTC back quicker instead of waiting for it to be mined so they can buy more GH quicker and sell again.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Gavin Andresen on June 16, 2014, 03:18:07 PM
I haven't been paying to the whole "cloud hashing" thing, but it seems to me a great cover for an old-fashioned Ponzi scheme.

1. Take investors BTC, "buy" gigahashes of mining.
2. Pay them back for a while using new investor's BTC.
3. Once you've got enough investors, take the BTC and run.
  (maybe claim "oops, sorry, got hacked")

I'm not saying CEX.IO is a tarted-up Ponzi scheme. I have no idea.

I'm just asking how everybody who is giving them money knows that they aren't a Ponzi. Or aren't selling the same hardware twice or three times, operating a kind of 'fractional reserve' system (that will eventually fall apart).

Excuse me in advance if this has been discussed and I'm just missing something (e.g. a variation on Greg Maxwell's exchange auditing scheme might work: e.g. "they publish all the blocks found and an auditable merkle tree of all customers and how much hashing power each has").


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 16, 2014, 04:31:55 PM
I haven't been paying to the whole "cloud hashing" thing, but it seems to me a great cover for an old-fashioned Ponzi scheme.

1. Take investors BTC, "buy" gigahashes of mining.
2. Pay them back for a while using new investor's BTC.
3. Once you've got enough investors, take the BTC and run.
  (maybe claim "oops, sorry, got hacked")

I'm not saying CEX.IO is a tarted-up Ponzi scheme. I have no idea.

I'm just asking how everybody who is giving them money knows that they aren't a Ponzi. Or aren't selling the same hardware twice or three times, operating a kind of 'fractional reserve' system (that will eventually fall apart).

Excuse me in advance if this has been discussed and I'm just missing something (e.g. a variation on Greg Maxwell's exchange auditing scheme might work: e.g. "they publish all the blocks found and an auditable merkle tree of all customers and how much hashing power each has").


You're right it is, there is one ongoing scam going on right now called cryptory. Looking at the website it looks great, have a look yourself; https://www.cryptory.com/
However it's a scam  and a quick look in their thread here confirms it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=633822.0

However many of this cloud hashing services have been running for a long time and aren't a scam. Like cex.io, e-pickaxe and PBmining. They've been running for so long time that if their weren't legit the best time for them to run away with the money has already passed.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 16, 2014, 05:38:12 PM
I haven't been paying to the whole "cloud hashing" thing, but it seems to me a great cover for an old-fashioned Ponzi scheme.

1. Take investors BTC, "buy" gigahashes of mining.
2. Pay them back for a while using new investor's BTC.
3. Once you've got enough investors, take the BTC and run.
  (maybe claim "oops, sorry, got hacked")

I'm not saying CEX.IO is a tarted-up Ponzi scheme. I have no idea.

I'm just asking how everybody who is giving them money knows that they aren't a Ponzi. Or aren't selling the same hardware twice or three times, operating a kind of 'fractional reserve' system (that will eventually fall apart).

Excuse me in advance if this has been discussed and I'm just missing something (e.g. a variation on Greg Maxwell's exchange auditing scheme might work: e.g. "they publish all the blocks found and an auditable merkle tree of all customers and how much hashing power each has").


They wouldn't even need to use the new investor's BTC as the percentage of BTC repaid every week/month is very small. What could easily happen is:

1. Take investor's BTC to buy mining capacity
2. Use 5% of the BTC to repay investors over several weeks
3. Run away with stolen BTC

Even if they are not doing this, providers are vastly overcharging for mining capacity. They usually charge separate electric charges from the original "purchase" and sell the capacity for much more then manufacturers sell to the public. For you to possibly every make a ROI on cloud hashing the rate that difficulty increases would need to decrease dramatically 


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Yakamoto on June 16, 2014, 05:59:43 PM
I haven't been paying to the whole "cloud hashing" thing, but it seems to me a great cover for an old-fashioned Ponzi scheme.

1. Take investors BTC, "buy" gigahashes of mining.
2. Pay them back for a while using new investor's BTC.
3. Once you've got enough investors, take the BTC and run.
  (maybe claim "oops, sorry, got hacked")

I'm not saying CEX.IO is a tarted-up Ponzi scheme. I have no idea.

I'm just asking how everybody who is giving them money knows that they aren't a Ponzi. Or aren't selling the same hardware twice or three times, operating a kind of 'fractional reserve' system (that will eventually fall apart).

Excuse me in advance if this has been discussed and I'm just missing something (e.g. a variation on Greg Maxwell's exchange auditing scheme might work: e.g. "they publish all the blocks found and an auditable merkle tree of all customers and how much hashing power each has").

Well, I'd say that stealing the BTC would be profitable right now; they've got about 600 BTC active in trading, I'm expecting more like 1,200 BTC in wallets.

I too have no idea, but they've been around a long time, and I decently confident they're at least somewhat legitimate.

I guess we'll see.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: AdamSmith on June 16, 2014, 06:16:32 PM
I haven't been paying to the whole "cloud hashing" thing, but it seems to me a great cover for an old-fashioned Ponzi scheme.

1. Take investors BTC, "buy" gigahashes of mining.
2. Pay them back for a while using new investor's BTC.
3. Once you've got enough investors, take the BTC and run.
  (maybe claim "oops, sorry, got hacked")

I'm not saying CEX.IO is a tarted-up Ponzi scheme. I have no idea.

I'm just asking how everybody who is giving them money knows that they aren't a Ponzi. Or aren't selling the same hardware twice or three times, operating a kind of 'fractional reserve' system (that will eventually fall apart).

Excuse me in advance if this has been discussed and I'm just missing something (e.g. a variation on Greg Maxwell's exchange auditing scheme might work: e.g. "they publish all the blocks found and an auditable merkle tree of all customers and how much hashing power each has").

Well, I'd say that stealing the BTC would be profitable right now; they've got about 600 BTC active in trading, I'm expecting more like 1,200 BTC in wallets.

I too have no idea, but they've been around a long time, and I decently confident they're at least somewhat legitimate.

I guess we'll see.


They will remain honest while the profit is still great.



Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: doenerlover on June 16, 2014, 06:34:22 PM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 16, 2014, 06:40:55 PM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.

That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 17, 2014, 05:37:49 PM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.
That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?



In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Yakamoto on June 17, 2014, 05:48:54 PM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.
That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?



In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.
PBMining is the cheapest, but there are certain people who aren't trusting it yet.

I don't like how PBMining locks you in to a 4-5 year contract, even at the low GH/s price. I prefer to keep trading and the like as much as possible.

Plus PBMining hasn't shown any pictures of their mining locations to my knowledge, so that's another downer.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 22, 2014, 07:11:45 PM
At November 21 I bought 166.5GH for 7.18029726 or $5000
At December 2 I bough another 99.9Gh for 2.92682927 or $3000

The price at that point was $1000 for 30GH however I emailed them and got an extra 3,3GH for each $1000 since I bought more than $3000.

Totally paid 10.08BTC and so far total return is 11.54BTC
That's 15% profit.
Last payout was 0.28BTC and that was for three weeks so yeah will probably end up at 20-30% profit in the end I guess.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: InwardContour on June 23, 2014, 05:31:10 AM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.
That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?



In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.
PBMining is the cheapest, but there are certain people who aren't trusting it yet.

I don't like how PBMining locks you in to a 4-5 year contract, even at the low GH/s price. I prefer to keep trading and the like as much as possible.

Plus PBMining hasn't shown any pictures of their mining locations to my knowledge, so that's another downer.
PBmining is likely some kind of ponzi sceme. I would not at all recommend "investing" with them


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 23, 2014, 04:24:18 PM
At November 21 I bought 166.5GH for 7.18029726 or $5000
At December 2 I bough another 99.9Gh for 2.92682927 or $3000

The price at that point was $1000 for 30GH however I emailed them and got an extra 3,3GH for each $1000 since I bought more than $3000.

Totally paid 10.08BTC and so far total return is 11.54BTC
That's 15% profit.
Last payout was 0.28BTC and that was for three weeks so yeah will probably end up at 20-30% profit in the end I guess.

Oh, sorry. I see now that you bought from e-pickaxe. The thread is about cex.io, so I thought that is where you bought your GH/s. That's why I was skeptical.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 24, 2014, 03:33:33 AM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.
This is true for most "gold rushes"


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: percocet on June 24, 2014, 04:24:44 PM
Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 24, 2014, 05:45:34 PM
Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.


Then don't buy if you think it's a bad deal  ;)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 24, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

Keep in mind that cex.io is an exchange. You are not buying shares from cex.io, you are buying them from other customers. cex.io shares are money-losers simply because people are willing to buy them at a loss. The price remains high because cex.io is dominated by mathematically-challenged customers.



Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Undone on June 24, 2014, 06:37:59 PM
Anyway, I don't know how to make the point any clearer: If 1 GH/s can mine X BTC, then it doesn't make sense for cex.io to sell it for less than X, and it doesn't make sense for a customer to buy it for more than X.

^^This, and end thread.

The biggest part of the problem is shown in this very thread; people are not doing the research to even see the forecast for how much this 1 GH/s will mine. That's ultimately what it boils down to.

I'm not understanding how people continue to flock to cloud mining, or BTC mining at all.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Harley997 on June 25, 2014, 01:18:14 AM
Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

Keep in mind that cex.io is an exchange. You are not buying shares from cex.io, you are buying them from other customers. cex.io shares are money-losers simply because people are willing to buy them at a loss. The price remains high because cex.io is dominated by mathematically-challenged customers.
cex is the original owner of all of the GH/s on their site.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ejinte on June 25, 2014, 03:46:31 AM
Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

Keep in mind that cex.io is an exchange. You are not buying shares from cex.io, you are buying them from other customers. cex.io shares are money-losers simply because people are willing to buy them at a loss. The price remains high because cex.io is dominated by mathematically-challenged customers.
cex is the original owner of all of the GH/s on their site.
I some guys been doing pretty good buying low selling high there


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Cluster2k on June 26, 2014, 05:28:33 AM
A few minutes with a calculator will show anyone why Cex.io can never be profitable when used just for mining.  The price of a gigahash falls faster than the bitcoins that gigahash can generate during the same time, even if you end up selling the investment plus keeping the generated bitcoins.  And then there are the fees.

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings.  Everyone else loses.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ALToids on June 26, 2014, 06:11:15 AM
The game of hot potato.  He who holds it at the end will get burned bad.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on June 26, 2014, 05:58:11 PM
The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings.  Everyone else loses.

Actually, the ones that got in very early lost the most because cex.io shares are less over-priced now than they used to be. The only people that make money on cex.io shares are cex.io and some of the traders. Most of the traders and all of the miners lose.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Yakamoto on June 27, 2014, 03:29:00 PM
The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings.  Everyone else loses.

Actually, the ones that got in very early lost the most because cex.io shares are less over-priced now than they used to be. The only people that make money on cex.io shares are cex.io and some of the traders. Most of the traders and all of the miners lose.
Does this mean I'm one of the 10% who win? Cool!

But the quoted is correct, as those who bought early have a LOT of BTC they still have to pay off before they can see a value return, while the current price is almost 1/2 of some of the original prices.

But yes, it is possible to win. However, the entire things is a negative sum game.

Ironically, the fees are less than a minor nuisance. I've traded fine with the fees, and the price swings you need are very minor, about 3000 satoshi to pay off the fees. Very. very small. And the market fluctuates wildly, on a good day, and so you can get 10,000 or more satoshi from a single gigahash. Get it on an even better but still quite common day, and you're just made 100,000 satoshi.

But it could be true that everyone but some traders lose. But why is that? Is everyone not very good at trading...? (And don't give me the "fees" bullcrap. If you think you changed from Forex to Bitcoin to avoid broker commissions, you're very, very wrong.)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: validium on June 28, 2014, 10:17:08 AM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.
That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?



In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.
PBMining is the cheapest, but there are certain people who aren't trusting it yet.

I don't like how PBMining locks you in to a 4-5 year contract, even at the low GH/s price. I prefer to keep trading and the like as much as possible.

Plus PBMining hasn't shown any pictures of their mining locations to my knowledge, so that's another downer.
PBmining is likely some kind of ponzi sceme. I would not at all recommend "investing" with them

I don't think pbmining is a ponzi do you have anything to support your claim, cex.io probably best fits that title the only people making money are its owners.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: DannyElfman on June 28, 2014, 10:50:19 PM
Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.
That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?



In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.
PBMining is the cheapest, but there are certain people who aren't trusting it yet.

I don't like how PBMining locks you in to a 4-5 year contract, even at the low GH/s price. I prefer to keep trading and the like as much as possible.

Plus PBMining hasn't shown any pictures of their mining locations to my knowledge, so that's another downer.
PBmining is likely some kind of ponzi sceme. I would not at all recommend "investing" with them

I don't think pbmining is a ponzi do you have anything to support your claim, cex.io probably best fits that title the only people making money are its owners.
Simply because the only people who are making money are it's owners does not make something a ponzi scheme. The issue with cex (and all cloud mining services) is that their hashes are overpriced as well as the fact that you cannot easily predict the difficulty of the network in the future


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: SecureErase on June 29, 2014, 01:12:02 PM
A few minutes with a calculator will show anyone why Cex.io can never be profitable when used just for mining.  The price of a gigahash falls faster than the bitcoins that gigahash can generate during the same time, even if you end up selling the investment plus keeping the generated bitcoins.  And then there are the fees.

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings.  Everyone else loses.

Wrong i'm afraid, take a look at GHS price charts, been upwards since begin of May, interestingly it seems to have disconnected from it's inverse relationship to difficulty.. Take a look at the Futures contracts CEX.IO made available (FHA & FHM) again profitable opportunities.
If you ONLY buy cloud hashing sit back and expect a profit, then the only outcome you'll get is disapointment.
Trading GHS and mining combined can be profitable if you educate yourself and treat your trading as a business in terms of your approach.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 29, 2014, 07:11:19 PM
A few minutes with a calculator will show anyone why Cex.io can never be profitable when used just for mining.  The price of a gigahash falls faster than the bitcoins that gigahash can generate during the same time, even if you end up selling the investment plus keeping the generated bitcoins.  And then there are the fees.

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings.  Everyone else loses.

Wrong i'm afraid, take a look at GHS price charts, been upwards since begin of May, interestingly it seems to have disconnected from it's inverse relationship to difficulty.. Take a look at the Futures contracts CEX.IO made available (FHA & FHM) again profitable opportunities.
If you ONLY buy cloud hashing sit back and expect a profit, then the only outcome you'll get is disapointment.
Trading GHS and mining combined can be profitable if you educate yourself and treat your trading as a business in terms of your approach.
This is a very interesting feature of the GHs that are sold by CEX. In a market that was 100% efficient the price of the GHs should gradually go down as they will produce less and less income in the future. I am curious to know how much cex trades GHs for their own account.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: thegold on July 26, 2014, 02:46:53 PM
i think soo... but it's reasonable than mining with hardware when you have not much money.. :)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: InwardContour on July 26, 2014, 04:42:04 PM
i think soo... but it's reasonable than mining with hardware when you have not much money.. :)

The safest way to gain some money is investing all you can in bitcoins, not in mining hardware or cloud mining.
Cloud mining is easier but in order to have some profit from it, you have to be very lucky choosing the right coin to instamine.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Yakamoto on July 26, 2014, 09:56:24 PM
Ok I'm gonna say that I "fell" for this too, but I did the math, and I'm making money...

I have honestly tried my hardest to find places where I lose my money, but the math says I am going up, consistently. Now I do also trade the hashes, but still. I've been holding a few hashes recently as the price is on an up trend, and I'm getting really nice ROIs.

Someone explain why it is such a bad investment though? I read the thread, but am I THAT different from everyone else in their experiences?

I checked everything; I'm making money. So I don't see what the problem is.
Wooo! Copy-paster!

This has been saved and reported to PrimeDice

Ok I'm gonna say that I "fell" for this too, but I did the math, and I'm making money...

I have honestly tried my hardest to find places where I lose my money, but the math says I am going up, consistently. Now I do also trade the hashes, but still. I've been holding a few hashes recently as the price is on an up trend, and I'm getting really nice ROIs.

Someone explain why it is such a bad investment though? I read the thread, but am I THAT different from everyone else in their experiences?

I checked everything; I'm making money. So I don't see what the problem is.
For reference.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: monbux on July 27, 2014, 02:54:43 AM
Quote
I don't think pbmining is a ponzi do you have anything to support your claim, cex.io probably best fits that title the only people making money are its owners.

Really?  I guess I was just lucky then.  I made a couple hundred bucks profit on cex.io.  I just bought GHS when the price was right, and sold it right when there was a price spike.  Also made some nice mining profit along the way. 

It was kind of unstable though, and I found myself constantly checking the site...  Not a good LONG term investment. :-/


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: sandykho47 on July 27, 2014, 06:48:25 AM
Maybe profitable investment if the price 0.001 GH/s  :P
and no maintenance fee

i think we better see other cloud mining
PBMining.com / lunamine.com / bitcoincloudservices.com is better than CEX.IO

Quote
I don't think pbmining is a ponzi do you have anything to support your claim, cex.io probably best fits that title the only people making money are its owners.

Really?  I guess I was just lucky then.  I made a couple hundred bucks profit on cex.io.  I just bought GHS when the price was right, and sold it right when there was a price spike.  Also made some nice mining profit along the way. 

It was kind of unstable though, and I found myself constantly checking the site...  Not a good LONG term investment. :-/


Trading GH/s is very risky
I think everyone should be careful


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: thegold on July 27, 2014, 07:48:45 AM
i think soo... but it's reasonable than mining with hardware when you have not much money.. :)

The safest way to gain some money is investing all you can in bitcoins, not in mining hardware or cloud mining.
Cloud mining is easier but in order to have some profit from it, you have to be very lucky choosing the right coin to instamine.

hmm investing bitcoins? may you have a link for invest it? or trade bitcoins?
thank youu.. :)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Muhammed Zakir on July 27, 2014, 10:49:28 AM
"not a profitable investment"

That depends on WHEN you trade and to WHO for WHAT price.

Some people defensively made a profit there, buying the Ghz cheap and selling them expensive and in the mean time making profit from the BTC they mine. Right now it might not me a good time to buy Ghz there, but if one were holding Ghz it might be a good to sell them to some fool who pays overprice for it.

In the end someone will make a profit and someone will make a lose. Not to strange.

+1.
Earlier people traded GHs in Cex.io and made profits. They buy GHs when the price is low and sell it when it increases. They got profit just for trading + they got some BTC before they sell the GHs as it was mining. But now the price is neither decreasing nor increasing. It makes the investment in Cex.io non-profitable. If they increase the price of GHs, then the persons who already invested will get profit and if they decrease the price, new persons can buy and sell it when the price increases.
Kindly,
      MZ


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on July 27, 2014, 04:25:06 PM
... But now the price is neither decreasing nor increasing. It makes the investment in Cex.io non-profitable. If they increase the price of GHs, then the persons who already invested will get profit and if they decrease the price, new persons can buy and sell it when the price increases.

The price is decreasing. One month ago, it was around 7.4 mBTC and now it is at 4.7 mBTC. That's a 36% decrease. The price drops relentlessly as the difficulty increases. Hoping for the price to increase is risky and foolish. It is like trying to float upstream in a river. Some people get lucky because they happen to pick the right time, but most people lose money as the price continues to drop.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: RobertDJ on July 27, 2014, 04:28:12 PM
... But now the price is neither decreasing nor increasing. It makes the investment in Cex.io non-profitable. If they increase the price of GHs, then the persons who already invested will get profit and if they decrease the price, new persons can buy and sell it when the price increases.

The price is decreasing. One month ago, it was around 7.4 mBTC and now it is at 4.7 mBTC. That's a 36% decrease. The price drops relentlessly as the difficulty increases. Hoping for the price to increase is risky and foolish. It is like trying to float upstream in a river. Some people get lucky because they happen to pick the right time, but most people lose money as the price continues to drop.

In theory the price of CEX's Ghs should always decrease because the GHs will have paid out some BTC from found blocks.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: odolvlobo on July 27, 2014, 04:41:16 PM
In theory the price of CEX's Ghs should always decrease because the GHs will have paid out some BTC from found blocks.

That's true. In theory, if the difficulty doesn't change, then 1 GH/s is worth approximately 1/150,000,000 of the remaining 8,000,000 bitcoins, or 0.053 BTC, and that value drops as the number of bitcoins remaining drops.

But, the reality is that the difficulty will continue to rise relentlessly and the value of 1 GH/s is really much less than that -- more like 0.004 BTC.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: thegold on July 28, 2014, 06:11:47 AM
... But now the price is neither decreasing nor increasing. It makes the investment in Cex.io non-profitable. If they increase the price of GHs, then the persons who already invested will get profit and if they decrease the price, new persons can buy and sell it when the price increases.

The price is decreasing. One month ago, it was around 7.4 mBTC and now it is at 4.7 mBTC. That's a 36% decrease. The price drops relentlessly as the difficulty increases. Hoping for the price to increase is risky and foolish. It is like trying to float upstream in a river. Some people get lucky because they happen to pick the right time, but most people lose money as the price continues to drop.


w0w.. the price decrease so quick...
hmm,... i bought 4.6mBTC/GHs.. :(
is there any advice where the place for cloud mining?
thank you.. :)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: blumangroup on August 01, 2014, 02:02:04 AM
... But now the price is neither decreasing nor increasing. It makes the investment in Cex.io non-profitable. If they increase the price of GHs, then the persons who already invested will get profit and if they decrease the price, new persons can buy and sell it when the price increases.

The price is decreasing. One month ago, it was around 7.4 mBTC and now it is at 4.7 mBTC. That's a 36% decrease. The price drops relentlessly as the difficulty increases. Hoping for the price to increase is risky and foolish. It is like trying to float upstream in a river. Some people get lucky because they happen to pick the right time, but most people lose money as the price continues to drop.

You need to take into consideration the amount of bitcoin these GHs have paid out since they were trading at these prices. Even though the prices have decreased, the owner of the GHs would have reaped some amount of benefit from the mining revenue.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: thegold on August 27, 2014, 06:21:03 PM
hheeelllooo...
is this threaadd stiilll liveee??

it's hard to investment in cloudd mining for mining....
that's my think...
the price is fluctuation... and based at demand and supplyyy :(
rthe price of cex.io now is 0.0037....


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: DhaniBoy on August 30, 2014, 12:37:52 PM
Very difficult to invest in cloudmining now, because because the prices are very volatile investments, we can not predict when we will return the result of capital investment, so I think investing in cloudmining at this time is very less favorable, hopefully next time there are system that can estimate how much profit we will get from the investment ...  8)


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Timetwister on September 02, 2014, 03:35:53 PM
Cex.io was always a bad investment. Only affiliates won from it.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Muhammed Zakir on September 03, 2014, 12:54:33 PM
Cex.io was always a bad investment. Only affiliates won from it.

Now it is profitable. I made some through mining and trading. Just give it a try. Buy at much lower price and sell it at higher price. Will take a few hours to execute the order. Need to be patient. :)

  ~~MZ~~


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: murraypaul on September 03, 2014, 12:57:17 PM
Cex.io was always a bad investment. Only affiliates won from it.
Now it is profitable. I made some through mining and trading. Just give it a try. Buy at much lower price and sell it at higher price. Will take a few hours to execute the order. Need to be patient. :)

Wow, if only everyone else had thought of that!
It is a bad investment, because over time each unit will lose value.
There is no rational expectation that you will be able to make money trading units.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Muhammed Zakir on September 03, 2014, 01:01:50 PM
Cex.io was always a bad investment. Only affiliates won from it.
Now it is profitable. I made some through mining and trading. Just give it a try. Buy at much lower price and sell it at higher price. Will take a few hours to execute the order. Need to be patient. :)

Wow, if only everyone else had thought of that!
It is a bad investment, because over time each unit will lose value.
There is no rational expectation that you will be able to make money trading units.


You can make some through cex.io at this time(current price) . I understand what you meant and I think you understood what I meant too. :) Like you said, after sometime, when the price increases, it will be non-profitable.

  ~~MZ~~


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: w4ssop on September 03, 2014, 02:38:22 PM
It has been profitable for some months but it's not easy to predict when there will be the next (small) uptrend.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: Timetwister on September 03, 2014, 06:37:52 PM
Just selling shares more expensive doesn't mean that it's a good investment, you are just giving the bad investment to another person.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: sickhouse on September 04, 2014, 01:01:52 AM
I had 1 BTC in GH/s for 2 months or so when BTC was up at ~$700 and I went +-0 - I wouldn't recommend this for anyone.


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: waterpile on September 04, 2014, 03:20:37 AM
It has been profitable for some months but it's not easy to predict when there will be the next (small) uptrend.

but what if BTC decided to go for a POS stage


Title: Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment
Post by: wasserman99 on September 04, 2014, 05:57:16 AM
Cex.io was always a bad investment. Only affiliates won from it.

Now it is profitable. I made some through mining and trading. Just give it a try. Buy at much lower price and sell it at higher price. Will take a few hours to execute the order. Need to be patient. :)

  ~~MZ~~
The problem with this plan is that the price of GHs will always decline over the long term as they have a finite amount of time before they will stop (when maintenance costs exceed mining revenue). You may get lucky and have the price of Ghs lower then it would normally be and be able to sell it later at a higher price due to changes in supply and demand however the same can be done with every other kind of asset.