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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: noviapriani on May 21, 2014, 11:05:11 PM



Title: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: noviapriani on May 21, 2014, 11:05:11 PM
he thinks this is exactly what it makes you.

On a side note, he works during the pres shift briefing, someone had listed some of his subjects as UDA. Now, he said they usually list them as IA (Illegal Alien), and some of his people were all "wtf is UDA", and the presenter said "Undocumented Alien".

The only illegals he will accept as undocumented as opposed to illegal are the children, or those who crossed as children. Part of any criminal statute begins with "knowingly and willingly", well, children don't knowingly and willingly do much of anything he said. But the parents, they willingly did something they knew to be against the law, yea, illegal, yea, criminal.

What ya think?


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: zolace on May 21, 2014, 11:09:22 PM
This is one of the few cases that's a legit undocumented person. Cuban refugee, came over as a child and parents never filled out the paperwork to make him a resident/citizen even though he was 100% legit to receive it. He had a SSA his whole life, joined the military and fought in Vietnam, worked in govt jobs that required a citizenship.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/us/after-forming-deep-roots-in-us-man-discovers-he-isnt-a-citizen.html?_r=1


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: commandrix on May 21, 2014, 11:11:48 PM
What I think is that it's sad that children are getting dragged into the whole "illegal immigrant" thing. Yeah, if you cross the border illegally, you're breaking the law and, thus, technically a criminal. But a lot of the really young children don't understand what's going on when they cross with their parents or their parents pay somebody to bring them across the border. What I think we ought to do is, first, tighten up the enforcement system so that there are real consequences to both the people who cross illegally and to businesses that hire illegal immigrants as cheap labor. Second, reform the system so that anyone who is willing to come here, obey the law and make a real contribution to society can do so -- even if they end up becoming a New York City taxi driver, at least they'd be working.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: sana8410 on May 21, 2014, 11:20:04 PM
What I think is that it's sad that children are getting dragged into the whole "illegal immigrant" thing. Yeah, if you cross the border illegally, you're breaking the law and, thus, technically a criminal. But a lot of the really young children don't understand what's going on when they cross with their parents or their parents pay somebody to bring them across the border. What I think we ought to do is, first, tighten up the enforcement system so that there are real consequences to both the people who cross illegally and to businesses that hire illegal immigrants as cheap labor. Second, reform the system so that anyone who is willing to come here, obey the law and make a real contribution to society can do so -- even if they end up becoming a New York City taxi driver, at least they'd be working.


You forgot "OTM". Too many of those caught over the last few years.
Immigration should not be illegal in the first place.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: Rigon on May 21, 2014, 11:40:10 PM
What I think is that it's sad that children are getting dragged into the whole "illegal immigrant" thing. Yeah, if you cross the border illegally, you're breaking the law and, thus, technically a criminal. But a lot of the really young children don't understand what's going on when they cross with their parents or their parents pay somebody to bring them across the border. What I think we ought to do is, first, tighten up the enforcement system so that there are real consequences to both the people who cross illegally and to businesses that hire illegal immigrants as cheap labor. Second, reform the system so that anyone who is willing to come here, obey the law and make a real contribution to society can do so -- even if they end up becoming a New York City taxi driver, at least they'd be working.


You forgot "OTM". Too many of those caught over the last few years.
Immigration should not be illegal in the first place.

 Sovereign nations don't need borders!!


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: sana8410 on May 21, 2014, 11:42:18 PM
What I think is that it's sad that children are getting dragged into the whole "illegal immigrant" thing. Yeah, if you cross the border illegally, you're breaking the law and, thus, technically a criminal. But a lot of the really young children don't understand what's going on when they cross with their parents or their parents pay somebody to bring them across the border. What I think we ought to do is, first, tighten up the enforcement system so that there are real consequences to both the people who cross illegally and to businesses that hire illegal immigrants as cheap labor. Second, reform the system so that anyone who is willing to come here, obey the law and make a real contribution to society can do so -- even if they end up becoming a New York City taxi driver, at least they'd be working.


You forgot "OTM". Too many of those caught over the last few years.
Immigration should not be illegal in the first place.

 Sovereign nations don't need borders!!
Why do you think sovereign nations don't need borders?


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: countryfree on May 21, 2014, 11:42:44 PM
I hope I'm not a criminal but I've been undocumented many years of my life. I now live as a tourist, so I don't have that kind of problem anymore, but I know there are many places in the world where I could not live, and that has nothing to do with the law. It's about property prices (including hotels). I can't afford to live in London or Singapore... In a free market, we wouldn't need any regulation regarding free movement of people. People would only go where they can afford to go.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: Rigon on May 21, 2014, 11:44:50 PM
What I think is that it's sad that children are getting dragged into the whole "illegal immigrant" thing. Yeah, if you cross the border illegally, you're breaking the law and, thus, technically a criminal. But a lot of the really young children don't understand what's going on when they cross with their parents or their parents pay somebody to bring them across the border. What I think we ought to do is, first, tighten up the enforcement system so that there are real consequences to both the people who cross illegally and to businesses that hire illegal immigrants as cheap labor. Second, reform the system so that anyone who is willing to come here, obey the law and make a real contribution to society can do so -- even if they end up becoming a New York City taxi driver, at least they'd be working.


[/quote]Why do you think sovereign nations don't need borders?
 NATIONS SHOULDN'T HAVE A SAY IN WHO ENTERS THE COUNTRY!!


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: zolace on May 21, 2014, 11:47:20 PM
What I think is that it's sad that children are getting dragged into the whole "illegal immigrant" thing. Yeah, if you cross the border illegally, you're breaking the law and, thus, technically a criminal. But a lot of the really young children don't understand what's going on when they cross with their parents or their parents pay somebody to bring them across the border. What I think we ought to do is, first, tighten up the enforcement system so that there are real consequences to both the people who cross illegally and to businesses that hire illegal immigrants as cheap labor. Second, reform the system so that anyone who is willing to come here, obey the law and make a real contribution to society can do so -- even if they end up becoming a New York City taxi driver, at least they'd be working.


You forgot "OTM". Too many of those caught over the last few years.
Immigration should not be illegal in the first place.
Sure. All other nations should be allowed to. However it is RACIST, Xenophobic, and Imperialistic for America to have border security and laws deciding who can legally enter the country.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: sana8410 on May 21, 2014, 11:55:25 PM
What I think is that it's sad that children are getting dragged into the whole "illegal immigrant" thing. Yeah, if you cross the border illegally, you're breaking the law and, thus, technically a criminal. But a lot of the really young children don't understand what's going on when they cross with their parents or their parents pay somebody to bring them across the border. What I think we ought to do is, first, tighten up the enforcement system so that there are real consequences to both the people who cross illegally and to businesses that hire illegal immigrants as cheap labor. Second, reform the system so that anyone who is willing to come here, obey the law and make a real contribution to society can do so -- even if they end up becoming a New York City taxi driver, at least they'd be working.


You forgot "OTM". Too many of those caught over the last few years.
Immigration should not be illegal in the first place.
Sure. All other nations should be allowed to. However it is RACIST, Xenophobic, and Imperialistic for America to have border security and laws deciding who can legally enter the country.
Of course all other nations should be allowed to set their policy. Why shouldn't they? Who are you to dictate how other nations sets their policies?


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: zolace on May 21, 2014, 11:59:29 PM
People seem to think illegal immigrants are dealt with by civil law, not criminal law. Do you happen to have a link that explicitly says otherwise? As far as immigration goes, this current concept of restricting immigration will be a thing of the past within 20-25 years, and instead the US will be actively trying to get people to immigrate. Obviously not the violent criminals and shit, but anyone who can use a shovel to anything better.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: sana8410 on May 22, 2014, 12:06:35 AM
People seem to think illegal immigrants are dealt with by civil law, not criminal law. Do you happen to have a link that explicitly says otherwise? As far as immigration goes, this current concept of restricting immigration will be a thing of the past within 20-25 years, and instead the US will be actively trying to get people to immigrate. Obviously not the violent criminals and shit, but anyone who can use a shovel to anything better.

ok seriously? try going into Mexico without proper papers, and see where you end up. U.S. law is clear on entering our country. Laws are being broken.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: zolace on May 22, 2014, 12:10:17 AM
People seem to think illegal immigrants are dealt with by civil law, not criminal law. Do you happen to have a link that explicitly says otherwise? As far as immigration goes, this current concept of restricting immigration will be a thing of the past within 20-25 years, and instead the US will be actively trying to get people to immigrate. Obviously not the violent criminals and shit, but anyone who can use a shovel to anything better.

ok seriously? try going into Mexico without proper papers, and see where you end up. U.S. law is clear on entering our country. Laws are being broken.
You seem to have been unable to answer my question, and decided a deflection was the next best possibility.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: Rigon on May 22, 2014, 12:15:34 AM
FACT: Reagan took America from being the world's largest creditor to being the world's largest debtor.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: sana8410 on May 22, 2014, 12:17:49 AM
FACT: Reagan took America from being the world's largest creditor to being the world's largest debtor.
Republicans don't hold that individual accountable for his actions; they don't hold him accountable for his failed War on Drugs / "Just Say No" campaign, his numerous scandals, or his failed economic policies.

Why is that?


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: sana8410 on May 22, 2014, 12:25:50 AM
FACT: The national debt more than quadrupled on Reagan's watch, from $700 billion to nearly $3 trillion. The trade deficit also more than quadrupled, to $137.3 billion. The budget imbalances--the exact opposite of Reagan's goal--were partly the result of the military buildup and partly because neither the administration nor Congress made any significant reductions in domestic spending. But the largest single reason for the mounting deficits was that the vaunted "supply-side" tax cuts failed to deliver their promised economic growth. In the six years of the Reagan presidency after the recession ended, the nation's private wealth grew by 8 percent. In contrast, in the five years between 1975 and 1980, a period often described by Reagan as unproductive, private wealth increased 31 percent.

The only good thing Reagan did was granted amnesty to undocumented immigrants.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: zolace on May 22, 2014, 12:30:19 AM
Yeah, let's forget about him ending the Cold War, rebuilding the military, restoring American pride, reviving the death spiraling American economy he inherited from his Democrat predecessor. Yeah those things don't count.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: zolace on May 22, 2014, 12:32:14 AM
FACT: Reagan took America from being the world's largest creditor to being the world's largest debtor.
Republicans don't hold that individual accountable for his actions; they don't hold him accountable for his failed War on Drugs / "Just Say No" campaign, his numerous scandals, or his failed economic policies.

Why is that?
He also turned the economy around, and put in place policies that had a big part in running the Soviet Union into bankruptcy, thus ending the cold war. Unfortunately, the fallout wasn't taken proper economic advantage of.

While I can come up with all kinds of things I feel he did wrong, he was the president that ended the FDR-Carter presidential economic policies, that were brilliant under FDR(in total) and terrible 50 years later under Carter. Reagan's policies are coming to an end, and it will be interesting to see what replaces it. I also can find things against FDR, and for Carter.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: umair127 on May 22, 2014, 12:50:49 AM
This thread mostly ignores the idea that there is a significant difference between the majority of 'illegals' and 'criminals arrested for crimes other than illegal immigration'.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: commandrix on May 22, 2014, 01:41:56 AM
This thread mostly ignores the idea that there is a significant difference between the majority of 'illegals' and 'criminals arrested for crimes other than illegal immigration'.

Is there? If you are arrested for, say, marijuana possession, how is that different in degree from crossing the border illegally? You could make a case for legalizing marijuana and it will make as much sense as trying the amnesty thing for illegals again without securing the border.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: Wilikon on May 22, 2014, 02:39:37 AM
he thinks this is exactly what it makes you.

On a side note, he works during the pres shift briefing, someone had listed some of his subjects as UDA. Now, he said they usually list them as IA (Illegal Alien), and some of his people were all "wtf is UDA", and the presenter said "Undocumented Alien".

The only illegals he will accept as undocumented as opposed to illegal are the children, or those who crossed as children. Part of any criminal statute begins with "knowingly and willingly", well, children don't knowingly and willingly do much of anything he said. But the parents, they willingly did something they knew to be against the law, yea, illegal, yea, criminal.

What ya think?


From which country is your cousin coming from? If this not a secret of course.





Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: bryant.coleman on May 22, 2014, 02:56:53 AM
Cuba should start a passport for payment scheme, similar to those existing in Caribbean nations such as St Kitts and Dominica. The new citizens can then illegally enter the United States, facing no harassment from the authorities.


Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: Wilikon on May 29, 2014, 03:25:29 PM

http://i.imgur.com/u19O7bZ.png

An estimated 60,000 such children will pour into the United States this year, according to the administration, up from about 6,000 in 2011. Now, Washington is trying to figure out how to pay for their food, housing and transportation once they are taken into custody.

The flow is expected to grow. The number of unaccompanied, undocumented immigrants who are under 18 will likely double in 2015 to nearly 130,000 and cost U.S. taxpayers $2 billion, up from $868 million this year, according to administration estimates.

The shortage of housing for these children, some as young as 3, has already become so acute that an emergency shelter at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, has been opened and can accommodate 1,000 of them, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said in an interview with Reuters.

The issue is an added source of tension between Democrats and Republicans, who disagree on how to rewrite immigration laws. With comprehensive legislation stalled, President Barack Obama is looking at small, administrative steps he could take, which might be announced this summer. No details have been outlined but immigration groups are pressing him to take steps to keep families with children together.

The minors flooding over the border are often teenagers leaving behind poverty or violence in Mexico and other parts of Central America such as Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. They are sometimes seeking to reunite with a parent who is already in the United States, also without documentation.

"This is a humanitarian crisis and it requires a humanitarian response," Senate Appropriations Committee Chairwoman Barbara Mikulski said in an interview. The Maryland Democrat, a former social worker, has likened the flood of unaccompanied children to the "boat people" of past exodus movements.

Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama, the senior Republican on Mikulski's committee, said, "The need is there, you know the humanitarian aspect of it, but we're challenged on money."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN0E814T20140528



Title: Re: Being illegal doesn't make you a criminal- my cousin works as border patrol
Post by: kuroman on May 29, 2014, 03:28:10 PM
he thinks this is exactly what it makes you.

On a side note, he works during the pres shift briefing, someone had listed some of his subjects as UDA. Now, he said they usually list them as IA (Illegal Alien), and some of his people were all "wtf is UDA", and the presenter said "Undocumented Alien".

The only illegals he will accept as undocumented as opposed to illegal are the children, or those who crossed as children. Part of any criminal statute begins with "knowingly and willingly", well, children don't knowingly and willingly do much of anything he said. But the parents, they willingly did something they knew to be against the law, yea, illegal, yea, criminal.

What ya think?

maybe you should ad some context here, I think you are talking about the US of A border and probably the one with Mexico right?