Bitcoin Forum

Planning on buying a house in the UK with bitcoin when it goes to the moon in next price bubble.  Buying with bitcoin will mean avoiding tax vs cashing out bitcoin before purchase in UK im pretty sure?

Im imagining issues of:

1.) Estate agents will still assume bitcoin is retarded money :/

2.) Negotiating for a lowball price will be harder with bitcoin

3.) General lack of choice, we need ebay to accept bitcoin or like a bitpay for property

Any tips about how to go about the procedure, has anyone bought a property with bitcoin? (if UK great!)

I am not specifically knowledgeable about UK tax law, but I would pretty much guarantee you that it doesn't necessarily have to be a cash sale to qualify as a capital gain. You would most likely owe on the difference between the fair market value of the house on the day of purchase versus the basis price of your Bitcoins.

I dont think using Bitcoin would let you avoid tax, they will use it to calculate the actual value in USD and still tax you.

I'm pretty sure u can't avoid tax even if u use btc to buy a house.

ok then shit lol, thats kinda odd imo.  If my GBP raises in value + housing stays same price i dont get capital gains tax if i buy a house.


guess i might aswell cash it out before i buy, oh well.

They will always get their taxes. You can use BTC for small purchases and avoid taxation pretty easily but something like that with a big purchase with lots of public records can get you in trouble.

*Insert Bitcointrepeneur thought*

BitEstate: The Housing Market run fully in bitcoin! Come browse our houses today, and pay in bitcoin!

I like the idea, but that was before i understood tax.   Not sure now.  Should imagine the next few years will be the best time for that business. 

home sellers accepting bitcoin using bitpay/coinbase?
sounds crazy but i like it

This won't really work in the United States (if you are trying to use BTC in association with any type of conventional or FHA type loan).   You would have to find a seller that is willing to accept all BTC, or you would have to convert your BTC to fiat, and pay all cash.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac do not consider BTC to be liquid assets useable in correlation with loans.

Something i thought of is if the BTC was "won via gambling" and then you buy a house well thats non taxable in UK no?

Is there an official statement on this or just personal knowledge? This seems a bit odd considering the push towards making it a currency. And it is really liquid, so much as online-only bank accounts (HSBC comes to mind) are.

In fact there are real people accepting bitcoin for their villas/ hauses on bitpremier, most of them are really expensive but they accept bitcoin itself not need of bitpay or any other product like that.

Its mebe not a good time to buy a house IN the UK ATM.

With or without bitc.  ;)

Or u like buying on the top off a bubble then go for it.   :P



H

Well yes it looks kinda bubble but im still waiting for the crash, looks more like it will stagnate for many many years?  the government doesnt want it to crash.  All i see is housing programs all over UK TV.  Whats going to cause the crash and when you think?  Also % wise how big a crash?  i remember max kieser tweeted a few months back to get ready for 50% house crash in UK in 2014 < this would be amazing.

My rent is like 600pcm, which i been paying for nearly 10 years now, fed up with it.  But im looking into living on a boat also :)

real estate company in sydney i know that accepts payment with bitcoins, their website below

http://forsyth.com.au/Latest-News.php?postid=102

The thing is what you already said... They are expensive. We need like 100-250k homes on a market. In doing so it will show that the average person can and is willing to sell their house for bitcoin and just not rich people.

To buy real estate, I think you have to register the property (it's in your own interest, at the Land Registry for England and Wales) and that act implies payment of taxes related to the transfer of real property (stamp duty of 4%?), no matter the mean of payment you used.
But do your home work.

I am not sure, but sometimes in my country if you want to hide some taxes you just sign in the contract that you sold or bought something very expensive for 1$ and that is :)

You don't want to live on a boat. Water leaves no legacy. You live by water, you die by water. She provides, and then she takes you.

Buy an island for like 50k-100k on the next bubble, pay some locals good money (still cheap money) to build you a nice open floor plan, and enjoy your newly built house on an island named Satoshi Island

"Buying a house with bitcoiN"

Haha, yeah, that's right letter - not bitcoins, but bitcoin. If you know what I mean

I read, From midnight on 24 March, Budget Day 2010, the threshold at which stamp duty becomes payable on homes was lifted from £125,000 to £250,000 - for first-time buyers only.   And im a first time buyer.

+ rinse all bitcoin through satoshi dice could = tax free property purchase in UK in theory?


I see some people are living for cheap on boats, no council tax and free mooring is possible also, thats 700pcm saved for me.

You can buy an island for 50-100k ?  what am i missing where are these babies at?

I tried selling my last house with BTC in US before listing. Ended up getting a USD offer at ask, but never had a BTC bite. Fwiw. I think we're starting to make headway into car purchases... houses are probably a good way off. Not as far away as Branson's space travel, though, so if you try, I'd guess you at least have a better chance than him. :D

"bitcoin" can be used to mean either singular and plural, like sheep.

Well a few houses in Canada were sold for Bitcoin and I have seen a few threads here and there about it but it certainly is uncommon to see it now with sites like Bitpremier probably being the best places to look for houses.
However you might have a point about car purchases being done in Bitcoin it is getting to the stage where it is becoming popular enough that some people may be willing to trade their car for some.

In Europe, is much more hard to find houses for sale in bitcoins. Maybe next year.

But we already see a few cars for sale.

I have got a luxury seafront flat for sale in Cyprus and 1 in Montenegro in Btc if you are interested

BTC won through gambling is tax free in the UK. From what I have been told the revenue look at it like this. Bob paid £500 for 100BTC. He gambled and surprisingly increased his holdings to 110BTC. Bob sells 100BTC for £50000, and the 10BTC winnings for £5000. Bob owes capital gains tax on £50000-£500 initial stake. The £5000 is tax free.

The revenue only cares when the sum of money is over capital gains limit for the year, so you can put away £10k or £11k capital gains tax free each year as can a spouse.

not sure about UK, but in the netherlands you'd still have to pay tax on gambling profits

buying/selling houses in BTC would seem nice at first, but cars and houses have many documentation to prove ownership and all, so avoiding taxes will be pretty much impossible. They will ask questions.

Talk to (several) tax advisors first before making any assumptions.


Maybe this will help? http://www.bitlegal.net/ (http://www.bitlegal.net/)

I'm looking forward to when bitcoin is used regularly for the purchase of real estate (especially in the USA).
Having an escrow company who specializes in R.E. transactions would be a good start. A long standing escrow company who integrates bitcoin into its existing services would be an even better start.
Maybe a company like Old Republic (nothing to do with the Star Wars game ;-). It's been awhile but ORTC (Old Republic Title Company) used to have another company (Orexco) associated with it who facilitated 1031 exchanges acting as an intermediary so it would be nice to see them also stepping into potentially facilitating "like exchanges" for crypto currencies.  


Good luck house hunting and wishing you even more good luck in finding an advisor competent enough to guide you.

If you aren't on a hurry I would recomment waiting a couple of years before buying a home with your btcs,
if in 2014 you would buy a decent/big house, probably in 2016 you will have a castle...

No offense but you'd have to be a total idiot to buy real estate with bitcoin.  We are still in the era of fiat mining.  Not even the richest 0.001 percent pay hard cash for real estate unless of course they are in a huge hurry and willing to take a loss.  Get some money counterfeited by the bank for you, er, I mean get a loan! 

Depends on how many BTC I can earn between now and then. But seriously, if the value of a few bitcoins goes up high enough in say, five years to buy a house... would you be able to hold off spending them long enough to buy that house?

I think I would end up blowing it on a car... or maybe bacon. Lots of bacon.

Yeah its happening right now , take a look at https://www.bitpremier.com/ .

Not sure about uk but u will need to pay tax, that is for sure. And wont be to hard to find somebody to accept bitcoin as payment, when u offer it they will accept. Nobody would turn down a sell opportunity :D .

And f*** UK, just buy this one https://www.bitpremier.com/items/view/495 . Isn't it awesome ? LOL :D

If the UK housing market crashes and you have a mortgage is that better vs cash purchase?  (you'd have negative equity but i guess you can dump the mortgage is that the advantage?)

Also with cash buys you get on average 7% cheaper purchase to begin i have read.

Its the deal or no deal problem, when your bitcoin starts becoming 90% of your total net worth its time to diversify no?

You will most likely have to pay taxes no matter which way you purchase the property. I would think your best bet would be to find someone who is selling a property and looking for bitcoin for it. It would be a challenge to have a realtor accept bitcoin especially if they have never heard of it.

I am not sure about UK tax law, but I am pretty sure that US tax law says that when you exchange one property for another property you will need to treat it as if you first sold your first property for cash and then used that cash for the 2nd property.

An example of this is as follows:
You have 100 shares of company ABC that you bought for $1 each (total cost basis of $100). The shares of ABC are now worth $50 each (total value $5,000, total appreciation, $4,900).

You exchange these 100 shares of ABC for 20 shares of company XYZ. Company XYZ are worth $250 each and the total
value of these 20 share is $5,000.

My understanding is that you would need to pay taxes on the 4900, which is the difference between the value of the shares you bought verses the cost basis of the share you purchased.


I don't see how this would be the case. BTC is easily converted into fiat. If a buyer or seller is desperate (or otherwise urgently wants/needs to complete the transaction then the other will have an advantage.


There are many services that assist merchants/sellers/businesses in accepting bitcoin (coinbase, bitpay, MtGox(before they failed).

Thanks catfish et al for taking the time to provide some great info im going over the posts/info, i might have to hire yous for consultancy once we at $5k BTC :).


Like i said though im still waiting for this UK housing market crash (i do see a 30% drop sometime soonish maybe yes but could be 10 years who knows?).  So far ive paid about what... £50k - 60k? in rent over last years. 

Investing elsewhere requires some skill, could go with gold/silver but what else i have no clue, sticking some money in property might not provide any return but at least im not paying 600 PCM anymore which would be a great saving?

good idea to buy a house using bitcoin currency

it's a good idea
I think I can't avoid tax even I use bitcoin, but I don't know if in UK

Could you please tell me of there is a Real Estate platform/site/portal/forum or whatever place i can go look for a house that the owner is selling in BTC??

https://www.bitpremier.com/5-real-estate

It is always a bad idea to avoid paying taxes.

With that being said it is still possible to deal with bitcoin anonymously to avoid any kind of reporting.

Great Idea ! You can avoid the fiscal control and if you're very lucky, you can pay house to cheap price  ;D

http://www.homes4bitcoin.com home for sale 575 bitcoins

Wow very interesting topic. I actually operate an property management company in the Midlands and London, and though i would really like the idea of implementing (piloting) Bitcoin into the firm. It will surely be difficult to find supply of sellers willing to sell their property in exchange for Bitcoin. Simple reason being the negative externalities of current market volatility, with the value of Bitcoin fluctuating the risk is too great for the average tech savvy home buyer/ seller.  Ofcourse other common issues are financial regulation and rules of conduct. I haven't thought about the above in in too much detail, nor am i knowledgeable with the legal aspect of bitcoin, however if anyone has any suggestion around the above it would be great to here.

In the case of 5399 diehl ln , 63049  the owner has title free and clear, deed in an LLC, transferring ownership is as easy as handing over the LLC papers and deed. Plus the owner does not wish to exchange their bitcoin into USD by using bitpay or coinbase.  Most other transactions will have loans attached and would need to exchange BTC into USD to payoff loans.
Depending on location of property can get tricky...  Keep it simple is not always possible. 

I'm looking for real estate that is buy-able in bitcoin also. Not a house, just large tracts of raw land. When I buy one I will have to pay capitol gains on the appreciation in value. Not sure how they do it in the UK, but I think you may owe also. The only loophole I can think of is in Denmark. You may be able to get a house without capitol gains there.

RodeosX,,  5399 diehl ln, 63049 is on 10 acres of land, with possible 10 acres next to it available.  How much raw land and where are you looking if you don't mind me asking?

Hi,
Mostly I'm looking for 40+ acre tracts. But Maybe less space for high quality land. Like with waterfront for example. I'll look at the ones you have posted. But I would prefer a place in Wisconsin.
-Cheers

Skele, it can be that easy, if no loans are on the property deed free and clear.. 
Be nice to see our deed / title to property go digital maybe even new type of blockchain holding title to assets.   

so what the best solution of this problem. any property that is worth paying bitcoin

Guess that depends on where one wants to live.

It will be really great when this happen and Bitcoin become mainstream currency, like dollars, Euro...
But, this will not happen overnight, and I guess in the beginning we will have limited options what we can buy with bitcoin, digital staff...
Later we will have more and more product and eventually it will be possible to buy even house, yes :)

I would argue that you would likely have to use the current market value of the bitcoin rather then the cost basis. AFAIK the taxing authority would assume that any barter transaction would have both sides of the barter exchange into cash prior to the deal closing for taxing purposes.

For now but in the future the ideal would have it be another way of paying for it
Saving on realtor costs and some legal fees as well.

yes true it will not happen in a short time. our job is to keep the situation stable. that's enough. Do not get too excited until we take bitcoin as much and make the price fall

Sometimes in the past bitcoin didn't even worth buying a single chocolate bar spending thousands of them and now I am witnessing this.A huge advancement in money mechanism bitcoin has put forward

Tell them estates agents how they could make money while bitcoin rises,they will for sure accept your proposal to pay in BTC. Greedy asses are agents  ;)

Using bitcoin to purchase a house would be amazing and truly a step in a great direction especially for those first time buyers however I do not see any way of you avoiding tax as you can bet all estate agents would find a way to tax you. Maybe estate agents will soon realise the potential of bitcoins and hopefully be more interested in accepting it rather than ignoring it.

Please also tell them to secure the wallet, I don't want to read headline saying people sell house with bitcoin and lost it by hacker..

I'll be depressed until the day 1 btc can buy you one house

There are several users that would rent their holidays home for btc but the ones who are willing to sell it are very rare.

Well on that topic if we saw more people using services like Air BNB and accepting Bitcoin that would also be nice
Not really buying a house with bitcoin but being able to find a place to rent or stay a few days with someone who accepts Bitcoin would be another step towards bitcoin adoption.

if you could really buy one, there will be the tax problem you know, for a such huge thing like that you can't escape IRS

I am willing to purchase one

Damn, you have the btc? ^^  ::)

It can! Have a look in Detroit.

This technically isn't true. Even if you were to buy the house as an asset for $500 (~1 BTC) you would first have to pay a lot more then that in order to make the house habitable. You would also have the increased tax payments to the state and local tax authority that you would likely need to pay if you were to move from out of state and have the same income. Not to mention the likely medical bills from the increased chances of getting mugged and the replacement costs of your assets that would have a much greater chance of getting stolen.

Considering you can actually defend yourself in Detroit, I don't think being a mugging victim (as opposed to an attempted mugging victim) is that big of a threat.

Buying a house with Bitcoin would be rather difficult since a wide range of the mortgage companies are not willing to partake in it due to the fluctuating trends of Bitcoin.

He meant a house in a place that isn't a shithole.

I don't know if anyone would be interested in helping with my project Bits 4 Bricks?  It aims to increase the amount of housing stock available for bitcoin and increase the circulation of bitcoin in the housing and building trade.  

Bricks 4 Bits (https://www.coinfunder.com/project/bricks4bits)

Vitalik may be buying a lot of these, thats why price crash  ;D

So it's year 2020. I have 3 BTC in my wallet.
Can a I buy a house or what?

It is generally not a good idea to try to defend yourself against a mugger that has any kind of a weapon. If someone is willing to pull a gun or a knife on you then they might as well be willing to use it against you. If you give them what you want then the worst that will generally happen is they will get whatever valuables you have on your person at the time.

“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” the CDC study, entitled “Priorities For Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence,” states.

Guns are valuable, so rather than be murdered or maimed after complying, I would prefer to give my gun to them, bullets first.

I would still want to avoid this kind of situation in the first place. If you can avoid living in a neighborhood that has a lower crime rate (this isn't saying much when comparing to detroit) the chances of you being in this situation are much lower (even if your chances of injury are lower if you "use" your gun on an assailant, the chances are still far from zero).   

Eventually all the criminals in Detroit will be pacified or flee for "fuck civil rights, gun control!" jurisdictions. Then the newer Detroit residents will laugh their asses off at your lack of foresight.

good idea to buy a house using bitcoin currency

Detroit seems like a post apocaliptic mad max wild wild west kinda scenareo right now. I dont know what the fuck is Obama waiting for to do something about it? I mean give me a break, what a waste.

Comments like that make me think you've either not watched any Mad Max movies, or haven't been in Detroit recently.

Here is another house that is listed for BTC

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Million-dollar-WA-house-being-sold---for-Bitcoin-274179231.html?mobile=y

Its a great idea. :)

Footlocker should accept bitcoin too

Who owns this house previously?

Seen this happen in reddit before lol

that will happen if Lebron is paid in bitcoin

You cant even imagine what else are for sale for BTC

Floyd Mayweather should take 1 fight's paycheck in BTC.   That alone would put him near the top of the list in BTC holders.  I don't know if we would want someone like him being able to manipulate the market...

If hes taking a single payment from a single source the source would pump the shit out the market buying all the coins to pay him that much meaning he would hold less than we think.

This is a good way to get some free press/advertising for your listing but I think it will severely shrink the number of potential buyers for the house. Only accepting bitcoin will make it much more difficult to obtain financing and buyers that do have the assets to not need a mortgage likely will not want to take the risk of holding bitcoin even if for a short period of time.

Lol he would cash it all out, he would be clueless and would just want dat dolla dolla.

This post was back in May, so how you doing with that house hunting?

And why the need to pay in Bitcoin directly? Using fiat as a medium it doesn't pose any difficulties.

You should buy everything with bitcoin, the more expensive the better.

I prefer buying things with the worst type of money I have (fiat) and keep the Bitcoin. Of course, if there is a discount on using Bitcoin I might be swayed (but then I'll just replace the lost Bitcoin with fresh fiat)

Fiat lose value over time while Bitcoin will increase its value so it's better to spend fiat and hold btc.

It's a good idea but you still be paying the tax. You won't avoid them.

Buying a house with Bitcoin would be rather difficult since a wide range of the mortgage companies are not willing to partake in it due to the fluctuating trends of Bitcoin.

Maybe other countries will cater bitcoin as payment. But in my place, that is impossible. Maybe I can pay services thru bitcoin

You can do it and you'll prolly get on the news or something. THe news love this kind of shit.