Bitcoin Forum

Washington: US Secretary of State John Kerry lashed out at fugitive Edward Snowden Wednesday, urging him to "man-up" and do his patriotic duty by returning home to face trial for leaking intelligence secrets.

Kerry's comments came only hours after Snowden alleged he was not just a low-level contractor working for the CIA, as the White House has repeatedly insisted.

"I was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word in that I lived and worked undercover overseas -- pretending to work in a job that I'm not -- and even being assigned a name that was not mine," he told NBC.

In his first interview with US media, Snowden said he had worked covertly as "a technical expert" for the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, and as a trainer for the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Kerry however denied that the State Department had trapped Snowden in Moscow, saying "for a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer, frankly." "If Mr Snowden wants to come back to the United States today, we'll have him on a flight today," Kerry told NBC.

"A patriot would not run away and look for refuge in Russia or Cuba or some other country," Kerry said. "A patriot would stand up in the United States and make his case to the American people."

"Kerry should fuck off and shut the fuck up" says wachtwoord on the bitcointalk forums.

Also Chelsea Manning. He exposed images of soldiers killing innocent people for sport and who's in a jail cell? I'll give you a hint: not those soldiers. Makes me fucking sick to my stomach.

"Kerry should fuck off and shut the fuck up" says wachtwoord on the bitcointalk forums.

But first American politicians people such as Hillary Clinton (the future POTUS) should face trial for bombing the orphanages of Serbia and killing hundreds of children. George W Bush (ex-POTUS) should take the responsibility of killing 2 million Iraqi civilians. Once they are ready to face trial for their crimes, then we can talk about Snowden.

yeah agreed as the US gov already made charges against him, I feel bad for him his life is ruined from this point on, I wonder if he has any regrets doing this.  I think as of us Americans we need to stand up for the man

Yep, a real patriot would come back to be assasinated.

nah, they are not that kind. probably will have to torture him. for instance, isn't some of the information on how they are treating bradley classified?

Yep, a real patriot would come back to be assasinated.

He should man up and come back to the United States. If he has a complaint about what's the matter with American surveillance, (he should) come back here and stand in our system of justice and make his case.

"If he cares so much about America and he believes in America, he should trust the American system of justice.

Make his case and then get sent straight to prison? The USG should apologise to Snowden and the rest of the world and then publicly pardon him. I also don't see how you can't care about a country but not trust the justice system which is obviously corrupt and won't give him a fair trial.

"The reality is I never intended to end up in Russia," he said. "I had a flight booked to Cuba onwards to Latin America and I was stopped because the United States government decided to revoke my passport and trap me in Moscow airport.”

"So when people ask why are you in Russia, I say, 'Please ask the State Department,'” he added.

at least in Russia he's being treated as a human being.

yeah agreed as the US gov already made charges against him, I feel bad for him his life is ruined from this point on, I wonder if he has any regrets doing this.  I think as of us Americans we need to stand up for the man

http://rt.com/usa/162144-snowden-russia-spy-nsa/

Maybe, but sadly this courtesy doesn't extended to some of their own citizens, specifically homosexuals and feminist activists (not to mention their involvement in the Ukraine).

Has Snowden actually got a Russian passport now, or has/will he be granted citizenship? I wonder if he'll ever make his way to Cuba, but I'd probably rather stay in Russia where it's safer for him. Cuba looks a nice place to live though. Whatever happens I hope he can find some comfort/happiness in life. Pretty bullshit he'll most probably have to spend the rest of his life as a fugitive now.

Maybe, but sadly this courtesy doesn't extended to some of their own citizens, specifically homosexuals and feminist activists (not to mention their involvement in the Ukraine).

Oh, c'mon, we see this gay-people-cracking-down stuff again and again... ;D Nobody cracking down on them, it's a total BS. Nobody cares about gays here, some pop stars and politicials are open homosexuals, they're still alive and active.

This "gay people prosecutions" bullshit is not even funny anymore. It's so far from the reality that I'm unable to imagine how anybody can believe that. This would be like a belief into spaghetti monster or martian invasion, the same level of stupidity.

Sexual orientation is nobody's business, it's a private matter. If some person thinks too much about someone's orientation, then he needs to visit a doctor, without any delay. This is the most popular point of view on this issue.

This is a tough issue to wrap my brain around. If he broke US law he should be charged and tried, but his motives were clearly not criminal. Either way he would never get a fair trial here.

the legal system works to favor those who are involved with government. those who are not get treated differently, so i'm pretty sure our legal system is flawed.

No question about that. My Father in law is an attorney and would say the same. He had a client earlier in his career that was executed this year. He said that the funds he received for preparing the defense for this client were nowhere near what he needed to compete with the incredible amount the state spent to make sure they could kill him.   

People in the U.S government no less talked about how much they'd want to shoot him, it's amazing really that Russia is more safe for him than the U.S given what we've been taught by western governments as children, John Kerry can shut the fuck up I agree, at least in Russia he's being treated as a human being.

Snowden should agree to face trial for telling the truth right after Bush and Cheney have faced trial for lying and being responsible for initiating a war of aggression, an act described by the Nuremberg Tribunals as the "supreme international crime".

Don't forget about Bill Clitor Clinton.

what bothers me is the people who molest kids, drive intoxicated and kill people, and do other shit.. get away scott free because they have money. meanwhile, someone who sells weed in some southern state gets the death penalty.. because he was poor and there are evil people out there.

meanwhile, we have the gangsters in our government saying "you should abide by the law, it is supreme.. come back to the U.S. so we can torture you."

The day when he will die, I am sure he will be one of the few that will proudly say : "I had a meaningful life, thanks"
There is no way he regrets following his conviction against a comfortable life.
His life is not ruined, it began from the day he followed his convictions. (The bad or good consequences it had depends on the observer)

"Every man dies, not every man really live" like William Wallace (or its actor) said :)

By Shane Kastler


Edward Snowden appeared calm, articulate, and mature. John Kerry on the other hand acted like a spoiled, rich kid – a schoolyard bully questioning the “manhood” of Snowden who he insulted by calling him a coward since he won't immediately come home to face charges. In another sophomoric, juvenile bit of mud slinging Kerry called him stupid. What the jack jawed pompous millionaire government hack doesn't seem to realize is that
Snowden isn't near stupid enough to “come home for his fair trial” because no such “fair trial” would ever take place. Kerry can bluster all he wants; he has access to bombs, tanks, and assassins who will kill whomever he wishes. What does Snowden have? Two things: first he has far more common sense than Kerry, and second he has the truth.

“Sometimes the “right” thing is not the “legal” thing” was a statement he made near the end of the interview; and I knew exactly what he meant. If a kid is drowning in a lake and you're standing next to a sign that says “No Swimming!” What do you do? Answer: you break the law and save the kid. When painted into a corner you have to consider the matter of the greater good and act accordingly. Letting the chips fall where they may, which is what Snowden has done. There's a mighty dear price you pay for standing up to “Uncle Sam” and his bully goons like John Kerry. But the Federal government’s gang of rouge outlaws need to be stopped. Here's to hoping other Edward Snowdens are out there now, determining whether or not they'll act like men and yet be called a coward by the biggest coward of them all John Kerry. Name-calling is the petty task of the 8th grade bully. Taking on a corrupt government is the job of a man. Maybe someday Snowden can get back to work in his office; and Kerry can get back to the playground where he belongs.

Snowden Acts Like a Man – John Kerry Acts Like a Thug
Cont...http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/05/snowden-acts-like-man-john-kerry-acts.html#more (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/05/snowden-acts-like-man-john-kerry-acts.html#more)

This is a great article piece and should be shared far and wide. Just another clip

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

In a sense it did make me wonder if enough people tried to kick them out of power if it would work in practice or if voter apathy helps to keep them not charged with any crimes.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. Wolves don't eat their own, usually.

the whole American voting system is a fraud in my opinion, two parties, people vote, for people that vote for them, what the hell is this supposed to be, the population should vote directly and no proxy should be allowed in the loop.... as long as this system is in place among others things won't change much

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. Wolves don't eat their own, usually.

the whole American voting system is a fraud in my opinion, two parties, people vote, for people that vote for them, what the hell is this supposed to be, the population should vote directly and no proxy should be allowed in the loop.... as long as this system is in place among others things won't change much

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

But for many of us, those that have interest in new money and avoiding the coming relentless restraints place by the US govt inc, it's more beneficial to go to St. Kitts, Puerto Rico or some such place to escape the coming economic decline.

Can't believe I voted for this guy in 2004.

On that one, you got goxxed.

Proud to say that the only presidential candidate I ever voted for was Gary Johnson :)

Voting for the Libertarian Party candidates is a waste. They hardly ever get more than 2% of the vote (Gary Johnson received just 0.99% of the vote). They only helps the Democrats, by eating away the GOP vote.

Since no third-party candidate received 5% of the vote in the 2008 presidential election, only the Republican and Democratic parties were eligible for 2012 convention grants, and only their nominees were eligible to receive grants for the general election once they were nominated. Third-party candidates could qualify for public funds retroactively if they received 5% or more of the vote in the general election.

If a third party gets 5% of the vote, then the party gets FEC funding.

Anyways, why the hell should I vote for someone I don't fully support?

Anyways, why the hell should I vote for someone I don't fully support?

I vote libertarian.
Because a vote for lesser of two evils is simply a vote to perpetuate the rotten 2 party system.

Voting for Libertarians might work in the local elections. But it will never have the effect in the national elections, as the latter is more polarized towards the two-party system.

Refusing to vote works too.

Voting for the Libertarian Party candidates is a waste. They hardly ever get more than 2% of the vote (Gary Johnson received just 0.99% of the vote). They only helps the Democrats, by eating away the GOP vote.

Refusing to vote might work if the majority of the population boycotts the polling. But if only some 2-3% is doing that, then no one is going to give a rat's a$$ about it.

Fuck you, I would love to vote for the Libertarian party in my country but they don't even show up in a lot of the polling stations!

That is the problem. What is the use in voting for a party, which is not even represented in most of the ballot papers? A better option might be to support the Libertarian section within the GOP.

Ron Paul punched the libertarians ticket in the GOP and now it's alive and well. We now have Paul, Cruz and Lee in the US Senate and Amash, Massie, Sanford and a host of other great libertarian-leaning republicans in the House + more coming this next election. Many of us are party delegates as well as many tea party conservatives and we unite at county, district and state conventions to support the better leadership picks (anti-establishment).

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

for many of us, those that have interest in new money and avoiding the coming relentless restraints place by the US govt inc, it's more beneficial to go to St. Kitts, Puerto Rico or some such place

The Libertarian party quite effectively summed up Rand Paul when they said he betrayed the core libertarian principles. There's a reason Paul caucuses with the GOP. His so called social libertarian positions (as far as marijuana is concerned) are only a compromise to pander to the younger GOP support base. In reality, he's far from libertarian views on society, and his views on same-sex marriage prove it.

I wonder how he deviated so much from his father.

"We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

He hasn't.

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

After many decades, the American public might be having the opportunity to vote for a winnable Libertarian candidate in 2016. But it needs to be seen whether he will be able to win the GOP nomination.

If the republican party had won the last election, it would be one of their morons reading out the speech about Snowden being a traitor, and should man-up and go live the rest of his life in a supermax....instead you have a democrat moron reading out the speech. ( sorry to drag this discussion back on theme )

Daniel Ellsberg (30 May 2014)

Edward Snowden is the greatest patriot whistleblower of our time, and he knows what I learned more than four decades ago: until the Espionage Act gets reformed, he can never come home safe and receive justice

John Kerry was in my mind Wednesday morning, and not because he had called me a patriot on NBC News. I was reading the lead story in the New York Times – "US Troops to Leave Afghanistan by End of 2016" – with a photo of American soldiers looking for caves. I recalled not the Secretary of State but a 27-year-old Kerry, asking, as he testified to the Senate about the US troops who were still in Vietnam and were to remain for another two years: How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

I wondered how a 70-year-old Kerry would relate to that question as he looked at that picture and that headline. And then there he was on MSNBC an hour later, thinking about me, too, during a round of interviews about Afghanistan that inevitably turned to Edward Snowden ahead of my fellow whistleblower’s own primetime interview that night:

There are many a patriot – you can go back to the Pentagon Papers with Dan Ellsberg and others who stood and went to the court system of America and made their case. Edward Snowden is a coward, he is a traitor, and he has betrayed his country. And if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so.

On the Today show and CBS, Kerry complimented me again – and said Snowden "should man up and come back to the United States" to face charges. But John Kerry is wrong, because that's not the measure of patriotism when it comes to whistleblowing, for me or Snowden, who is facing the same criminal charges I did for exposing the Pentagon Papers.

John Kerry's challenge to Snowden to return and face trial is either disingenuous or simply ignorant that current prosecutions under the Espionage Act allow no distinction whatever between a patriotic whistleblower and a spy. Either way, nothing excuses Kerry's slanderous and despicable characterizations of a young man who, in my opinion, has done more than anyone in or out of government in this century to demonstrate his patriotism, moral courage and loyalty to the oath of office the three of us swore: to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

http://2016.republican-candidates.org/

Forgive my ignorance, but who are the most likely candidates in this camp?

Check this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html

Right now Rand Paul and Jeb Bush are almost tied for the top spot.

And Paul is leading in NH:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html

Check this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html

Right now Rand Paul and Jeb Bush are almost tied for the top spot.

And Paul is leading in NH:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html

"manning up" and "facing trial" with his charges of treason, it would be in a private military style tribunal.  he will not be seen again or be heard of.  no more interviews, do not pass go, do not collect $200

They can force sex change surgery on him, turning him into Barbara or Tiffany Snowden. And nobody would be able to prevent this due to absence of public control.

well, um shit, that is a mindfuck.. "man up.. and get brainwashed into being a woman." and you know, that is something that could have happened to bradley MANNING.

Kerry: Snowden should "man up" and do "his patriotic duty" to go to jail.
More..http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/snowden-should-man-up-and-face-trial-kerry_935742.html (http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/snowden-should-man-up-and-face-trial-kerry_935742.html)
Yeah, be a patriot and come back to a kangaroo court. The O regime has come down hard on whistleblowers and yet they play this media game of "just come back and make your case" as if the deck wasn't already stacked against the person.

That is exactly what happened to Manning. The CIA taught a lesson to all of their detractors. Any similar whistle blower will face similar torture methods. Water-logging is primitive.. a forced sex change is even more modern.

I think the only way Snowden can go home is if he gets a presidential pardon at some point. 

And, as others have already pointed out in this thread, why should he ever believe them?
I wouldn't.

Well that's up to him, but aren't they legally binding? It's not going to look good if they publicaly pardon him then it turns out it was just a sneaky trick to get him back. I'm sure he'd require something in writing or whatnot as well.

Heh,

Hard to say what his next move could be. Eventually when all is said and done, he will only have one other option and that would be to return and face the music, either that of a grab team will get him and bring him back by force.

An open court trial would be very interesting.

He is standing trial in the court of public opinion. If Snowden is a traitor to the American government, Kerry is a traitor to the American people.

i'm kind of tempted to bet the GOP candidate losing to hilary, mainly because the republicans don't have enough broad appeal. though i won't vote for hilary, i wouldn't mind putting my money on her.

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

The challenge for Paul at this stage, however, is not to persuade the American public of his policy correctness or his electability. Paul’s immediate target audience is an invisible primary electorate made up of influential party donors and power brokers, many of whom are relatively unfamiliar with Paul or wary of his political brand.

The process has involved relentlessly courting allies outside the traditional Libertarian core of support built up by his father, Ron Paul -- such as Rupert Murdoch, who accompanied Paul to this year's running of the Kentucky Derby.

But to land such meetings, Paul's political reputation alone does not always suffice, often requiring an assist from allies more connected to the mainstream Republican Party, such as Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

“You think Rupert Murdoch would have come to the Kentucky Derby with Rand if McConnell hadn't told him what a good guy he is?” said one Republican source with knowledge of the meeting. Indeed, since Paul has actively supported McConnell in his challenging re-election bid, McConnell has in return acted as an emissary of sorts for Paul with mainstream donors and party influencers. Then, once Paul gets in the room, his allies say, he’s gifted at closing the deal.

“When McConnell puts his arm on Rand's shoulder, he goes from a curiosity to a serious player,” the party source explained. “McConnell helps open the door, and Rand charges in.”

Also opening doors for Paul is Nate Morris, 33, a Kentucky-based businessman and former bundler for George W. Bush's 2004 presidential campaign, who boasts deep connections in the business community and a close friendship with Bush's former finance guru, Jack Oliver. Morris each month has been helping to set up several introductions between Paul and deep-pocketed GOP influencers.

Just as the Republican establishment has been slow to warm to Paul, support from the religious right — an important constituency in a Republican presidential primary — has also been somewhat elusive.

Paul began working to shore up support among religious conservatives with a trip to Israel early last year. The trip was the brainchild of David Lane, an evangelical activist with deep ties in Iowa, who has been at the center of Paul's efforts to appeal to the religious right. Also along for the ride were A.J. Spiker, the former Iowa Republican Party chairman who in March stepped down to steer Paul's PAC; now-former South Carolina GOP Chairman Chad Connelly; Mallory Factor, who holds influential meetings among conservative power brokers in New York and South Carolina; and Morris, among others.

But Paul has attracted the most notice for reaching far beyond the traditional Republican base of support — with a speech at Howard University in Washington, a historically black college, and by reaching out to black pastors.

“I haven't seen this kind of inclusive thinking since George W. Bush,” said one Republican familiar with Paul’s strategy. “He’s going places where Republicans typically won't go.”

Rand Paul to headline “conservatarian” tech gathering in San Francisco

By Joe Garofoli

A likely 2016 GOP presidential candidate is coming to San Francisco this summer and — stop the presses — not to raise money. Well, no fundraiser are scheduled yet for Sen. Rand Paul, R-KY when he rolls into town in July.

The main reason he’s coming to town is to headline “Lincoln Labs Conference 2014: Reboot,” the conservatarian tech conference July 18-20 in San Francisco. The goal of the confab is to link the tech savvy of Silicon Valley with the political needs of conservative and libertarian – or “conservatarian” – America.

Also scheduled to be there is Nick Gillespie, editor in chief of Reason.org and Reason TV, the libertarian media hubs, and Rep. Cathy McMorris-Rodgers, R-WA, who will be “trying to see how Congress can adapt some of these (tech) tools to what they’re doing,” co-organizers Aaron Ginn told me. Also on the lineup is Joe Green, former Harvard roommate of Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg and co-founder of the issue advocacy group fwd.us. He’ll be there to talk about tech and immigration reform

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.

The modern 24 hour news cycle laundromats idea of critical analysis could be described as:
Dumbshit sockpuppet A says Snowden should return to face trial, so lets go to our panel of even dumber shits and lets hear them repeat what dumbshit sockpuppet A has to say, and we will fill an hour with nothing, coming to no conclusions other than slamming any experts on the subject who may try to interject some truth into the public discourse, while leaving the masses no more informed than if they stood in a corner and stared at the wall all day.

National media are generally lazy reporters who love having someone else write up articles for them which they merely need to spell check and repost. If not having the entire article prewritten, at least the talking points are pre ordained for them to follow, lazy, shallow faecal matter posing as news.

Add to that, sensationalism, and you have a 24 hour machine churning out horseshit by the trailer-load which is of little to no substance at all. A gift horse really for any government to manipulate, and they all have...

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. CPAC and similar early straw polls tend to lean towards younger, libertarian (at least perceived libertarians) but establishment candidates are tough to beat in the larger states. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

No one is over-estimating his chances. But you will have to agree that his chances of getting the GOP nomination for the POTUS 2016 is much greater than that Rand Paul ever had in POTUS 2008 and POTUS 2012.

This could be the perfect moment for him. Americans always over correct when one party has been in power. Rand is about the furthest you can get ideologically from Obama and that is what voters will be looking for. 

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. CPAC and similar early straw polls tend to lean towards younger, libertarian (at least perceived libertarians) but establishment candidates are tough to beat in the larger states. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/734533

Unfortunately for him, his passport has been revoked by the US authorities. So he can't simply get a visa, he need temporary asylum. It's not a visa, it's some kind of temporary citizenship... He required to make photos, fill form etc and then wait when his new ID card will be issued. So, unlike visa stamp in the passport, this could take some time.