Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: istar on February 13, 2012, 08:22:40 AM



Title: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: istar on February 13, 2012, 08:22:40 AM
http://mobilemoneyafrica.com/mobile-money-slowly-turning-east-africa-into-cashless-society/

Mobilemoney Africa summit: Someone from Bitcoin should go there...
http://mobilemoneyafrica.com/mobile-money-event/

"A frequent comment I hear, particularly from international banks, is that the unbanked aren’t for them."
http://www.mobilemoneyconsulting.com/2011/09/21/uncategorized/sibos-have-banks-missed-the-mobile-payments-boat



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: anu on February 13, 2012, 02:31:57 PM
What do you think about using Bitcoin's deflationary properties to push capital into Africa:
http://bitcoinmedia.com/our-next-adoption-phase/ (http://bitcoinmedia.com/our-next-adoption-phase/)?



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: kjlimo on February 13, 2012, 02:44:55 PM
Africa is certainly prime for the picking.  Mobile SMS text messaging money transfers are the norm over there.

Bitcoin could certainly make a splash. 


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on February 14, 2012, 07:47:38 PM
Africa is certainly prime for the picking.  Mobile SMS text messaging money transfers are the norm over there.
Bitcoin could certainly make a splash. 

Meh. Internet is a whole different story. In Ethiopia for example all the telecom is monopolized by the evil gov't, which is doing its best (effectively) that internet do not work at all there.  I wonder what is the point of all those internet cafe in Addis. I suppose just to meet ppl in person or as a cover for some other biz.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Paul Troon on March 22, 2012, 09:12:59 PM
Africa is certainly prime for the picking.  Mobile SMS text messaging money transfers are the norm over there.

How does Mobile SMS money transfer work in Africa?  There must be some gateway to an account entry system for that to work.  A gateway to initiate and verify Bitcoin transactions should be possible in the same way.  That would enable Bitcoin payment with out local access to the internet.  You would lose some decentralization by using a gateway, but there could be competition among gateways.   I also assume transactions would be denominated in BTC, otherwise there would have to be some way to determine the current exchange rate with local or international fiat currency.

I can image a scenario like the following (assumes an android device):

1) person 1 wants to pay person 2 in BTC
2) person 2 generates a public address on their phone and sends it to person 1 (via bluetooth, camera scan, local wifi, etc.)
3) person 1 generates signed transfer from their wallet to person 2's public address and sends it to person 2 (via bluetooth, camera scan, local wifi, etc.)
4) person 2 verifies terms of the transfer and sends an SMS with the signed transfer to the Bitcoin gateway
5) the Bitcoin gateway posts the signed transfer to the Bitcoin network and waits for some predetermined number of confirms or rejections
6) the Bitcoin gateway sends an SMS to person 2 saying the transfer succeeded or failed

- The BTC gateway operator will incur internet and SMS network fees and will demand some sort of micropayment, perhaps in BTC, for each transaction cleared. 
- The BTC gateway could run on an android phone sitting somewhere with more reliable wifi access.
- An African Bitcoin ecosystem would also need someone willing to exchange Bitcoins for local fiat currency (and/or foreign currency).

I also wonder if the user side could be implemented using SIM toolkit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_Application_Toolkit) (like M-Pesa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa#Services)) on non-android phones.  That would instantly increase it's penetration.



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: bitlotto on March 22, 2012, 10:39:57 PM
I can see BTC really thriving in parts of the world that don't have as much infrastructure already set up. You can bypass corrupt regimes ruining your local currency and pay for things easily knowing that you'll still have something of value no matter what is happening locally.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: stochastic on March 22, 2012, 10:49:18 PM


How does Mobile SMS money transfer work in Africa? 

I think it is as simple as the seller requesting a portion of the buyers prepaid phone amount to be debited and sent to the merchants account.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Mike Hearn on March 26, 2012, 02:46:13 PM
The system used in Africa is based on the GSM standard that lets the operator put simple menus on the users screen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Paul Troon on March 26, 2012, 04:42:15 PM
The system used in Africa is based on the GSM standard that lets the operator put simple menus on the users screen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data

Sounds like they use USSD and the SIM toolkit for the M-Pesa system.  Unfortunately any cell operator based system requires the operator and thus also the the government to support it.  An ideal system would bypass as much as possible any requirement for government or big business support.

I've been thinking of how you could do SMS based Bitcoin transactions with low cost hardware (ie. no smart phones/internet) and still be secure; I think you could do it all with two SIM cards.  One SIM card could be from the operator and thus have the ability to send/receive simple SMS messages.  A second SIM card could be independently produced that acts as a Bitcoin wallet and contain SIM Toolkit software necessary to communicate with a Bitcoin SMS gateway to create transactions and check for confirmations.    This second SIM card would not have any ability to log into the cell providers network, but should be able to check and queue up SMS messages in the phone's memory.

Programming for SIM toolkit is a PITA, but simulators are available so a proof of concept wouldn't be too hard to produce.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Otoh on March 26, 2012, 08:20:26 PM
The system used in Africa is based on the GSM standard that lets the operator put simple menus on the users screen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data

Sounds like they use USSD and the SIM toolkit for the M-Pesa system.  Unfortunately any cell operator based system requires the operator and thus also the the government to support it.  An ideal system would bypass as much as possible any requirement for government or big business support.

I've been thinking of how you could do SMS based Bitcoin transactions with low cost hardware (ie. no smart phones/internet) and still be secure; I think you could do it all with two SIM cards.  One SIM card could be from the operator and thus have the ability to send/receive simple SMS messages.  A second SIM card could be independently produced that acts as a Bitcoin wallet and contain SIM Toolkit software necessary to communicate with a Bitcoin SMS gateway to create transactions and check for confirmations.    This second SIM card would not have any ability to log into the cell providers network, but should be able to check and queue up SMS messages in the phone's memory.

Programming for SIM toolkit is a PITA, but simulators are available so a proof of concept wouldn't be too hard to produce.

any NPO, or individuals willing to set one up, looking to move this concept or other possible solutions forward then please to see my thread re potential funding for the research, development, & implementation of this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68162.0;all

all I can say is that I believe it would receive a sympathetic hearing from someone who could offer realistic backing to potentially make it happen


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: repentance on March 27, 2012, 12:46:22 AM
The system used in Africa is based on the GSM standard that lets the operator put simple menus on the users screen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data

Sounds like they use USSD and the SIM toolkit for the M-Pesa system.  Unfortunately any cell operator based system requires the operator and thus also the the government to support it.  An ideal system would bypass as much as possible any requirement for government or big business support.

I've been thinking of how you could do SMS based Bitcoin transactions with low cost hardware (ie. no smart phones/internet) and still be secure; I think you could do it all with two SIM cards.  One SIM card could be from the operator and thus have the ability to send/receive simple SMS messages.  A second SIM card could be independently produced that acts as a Bitcoin wallet and contain SIM Toolkit software necessary to communicate with a Bitcoin SMS gateway to create transactions and check for confirmations.    This second SIM card would not have any ability to log into the cell providers network, but should be able to check and queue up SMS messages in the phone's memory.

Programming for SIM toolkit is a PITA, but simulators are available so a proof of concept wouldn't be too hard to produce.

Unless people are using dual SIM phones, this is going to be a pain in the ass.  SIM cards are small and easily lost and swapping out SIM cards is a nuisance in many phones.  A lot of pre-paid phones are also locked to particular networks and will only accept SIM cards from those networks - you'd need to either configure existing cards issued by the network or people would need to get their phones unlocked.

There's a limit to how much trouble people will go to in order to make transactions.  You also need to look at what the effective fees on microtransactions would be.  The infrastructure with which the second SIM communicated would not be free, but it would need to be affordable - how do you make it affordable if you're not using the towers of existing providers to route communication with the Bitcoin SMS gateway?



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Paul Troon on March 27, 2012, 05:43:57 PM
Unless people are using dual SIM phones, this is going to be a pain in the ass.  SIM cards are small and easily lost and swapping out SIM cards is a nuisance in many phones.  A lot of pre-paid phones are also locked to particular networks and will only accept SIM cards from those networks - you'd need to either configure existing cards issued by the network or people would need to get their phones unlocked.

I agree with you about swapping SIM cards being a pain and also that unlocked phones would be required.   This is far from a perfect solution, and dual SIM phones are rare and can not be assumed.   My goal would be a solution that would work with out a major investment in new phone technology by the user. 

Unlocking phones is a mature cottage industry so I'm not too worried about that, but the dual SIM swapping is unavoidable.  People swap SIMs all the time to save money when traveling by using a local pre-paid GSM card.  It's not elegant, but it could work.

There's a limit to how much trouble people will go to in order to make transactions.  You also need to look at what the effective fees on microtransactions would be.  The infrastructure with which the second SIM communicated would not be free, but it would need to be affordable - how do you make it affordable if you're not using the towers of existing providers to route communication with the Bitcoin SMS gateway?

I think you missed my point about why two SIMs would be required.  The first SIM would be from a local cell carrier and provide the SMS infrastructure for communicating with the Bitcoin gateway via SMS.   The second SIM card would not provide any telecommunications at all and would only be programmed to act as a Bitcoin wallet and to facilitate transactions via SMS messages sent using the first SIM card.

So to your question about costs, they would not be zero.  At a minimum the costs would include:

1) cost of an SMS to the Bitcoin gateway to initiate a transaction
2) cost of an SMS from the Bitcoin gateway to notify that the transaction confirmed
3) cost charged by the gateway to perform the Bitcoin gateway functionality

Creating a payment address and checking your bitcoin balance would all be handled locally using the 2nd Bitcoin card so no costs for that.  If you need to check an exchange rate, that would also require an SMS message and reply.



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: cypherdoc on March 27, 2012, 05:48:51 PM
People swap SIMs all the time to save money when traveling by using a local pre-paid GSM card.  It's not elegant, but it could work.


can u tell me how this works?  my son is travelling to Southeast Asia this summer but the only GSM old phones we have are Blackberry's.  is it possible to stick a prepaid local SIM card in it and have it function for him there?  the problem i'm thinking is that BB's require internet access don't they so how would that effect things?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Mike Hearn on March 29, 2012, 03:39:04 PM
Cheap Android phones are starting to take over even in Africa. I tried the Bitcoin Wallet app on a phone being sold in Kenya for about $80, it worked fine.

By the time Bitcoin has become big/interesting enough to make real headway in poorer countries the concept of a non-smart phone won't exist. As Apple is unlikely to ever make a real assault on the low end of the market, I think almost all of these devices will be cheap Chinese-manufactured Androids, which is perfect for us.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Paul Troon on March 29, 2012, 04:51:04 PM
Cheap Android phones are starting to take over even in Africa. I tried the Bitcoin Wallet app on a phone being sold in Kenya for about $80, it worked fine.

By the time Bitcoin has become big/interesting enough to make real headway in poorer countries the concept of a non-smart phone won't exist. As Apple is unlikely to ever make a real assault on the low end of the market, I think almost all of these devices will be cheap Chinese-manufactured Androids, which is perfect for us.

Thanks Mike - that's good to know.  The more I think about it, the concept of a STK+SMS based system, while possible, is too cumbersome to be readily adopted.

Perhaps the real problem with introducing Bitcoin in Africa (or any other developing economy) is to identify the killer application that will motivate people to give it a try.  The only really compelling application I've heard of would be remittances from abroad.  I have read that currently those with out bank accounts must rely on Western Union and pay up to a 20% transfer fee.

Brass tacks - how could Bitcoin compete with Western Union as a remittance service?  Using Kenya as an example, here is a standard business model:

- Establish a formal money transfer company that conforms to all legal requirements and pays required business fees (one time and ongoing). 
- Accept Bitcoins from Kenyan customers via a retail establishment in exchange for Kenyan Shillings. 
- Bitcoins that are received are exchanged for USD via international Bitcoin exchanges.
- Proceeds from the exchanges flow back to Kenya via standard interbank transfer and are converted to Kenyan Shillings to fund future payments.

The big question is whether or not that business model would result in reducing the 20% transfer fee that Western Union charges.

A non-standard business model might look something like this:

- Person A, who has a bank account, advertises their willingness to exchange Bitcoin for Kenyan Shillings.
- Person B, who does not have a bank account, receives Bitcoins from a relative abroad.
- Person A meets person B, face to face, and exchanges Kenyan Shillings for Bitcoins via an Android application.
- Person A exchanges Bitcoins that are received for USD via international Bitcoin exchanges.
- Proceeds from the exchanges flow back to Person A's bank account via standard interbank transfer and are converted to Kenyan Shillings to fund future payments.

If trust were established between Person A and person B, then the cash for Bitcoin exchange could also proceed via an exchange of SMS messages and an M-Pesa cash payment.   The smaller the amount of value that was exchanged, the less trust that would have to exist to facilitate remote exchanges.

One thing to note, inflation in Kenya (for example) was around 17% last year.   That means that holding Kenyan Shillings in a bank account that isn't paying at least 17% APR is a bad idea.  Hedging against inflation might explain why Western Union charges such a high fee to exchange dollars for Shillings. 

The killer application for Bitcoins in Kenya and other developing economies might ultimately be as a non-inflationary store of value.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: DublinBrian on March 29, 2012, 08:44:17 PM
Its hard for Bitcoin to compete in Africa with free smart phones

Quote
Western Union and MTN also announced today that they will provide 9,000 branded mobile “Yellow Phones” to Ugandans. Customers who receive these phones must already have an active MTN Mobile Money account or sign up for one in order to use the new remittance service. The phones will be given away via ongoing promotions throughout Uganda over the next few months.
http://pymnts.com/news/businesswire-feed/2012/march/28/western-union-mtn-announce-launch-of-mobile-money-transfer-service-in-uganda-provides-9000-branded-mobile-phones-20120328005318/ (http://pymnts.com/news/businesswire-feed/2012/march/28/western-union-mtn-announce-launch-of-mobile-money-transfer-service-in-uganda-provides-9000-branded-mobile-phones-20120328005318/)


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: rjk on March 29, 2012, 08:55:12 PM
Its hard for Bitcoin to compete in Africa with free smart phones

Quote
Western Union and MTN also announced today that they will provide 9,000 branded mobile “Yellow Phones” to Ugandans. Customers who receive these phones must already have an active MTN Mobile Money account or sign up for one in order to use the new remittance service. The phones will be given away via ongoing promotions throughout Uganda over the next few months.
http://pymnts.com/news/businesswire-feed/2012/march/28/western-union-mtn-announce-launch-of-mobile-money-transfer-service-in-uganda-provides-9000-branded-mobile-phones-20120328005318/ (http://pymnts.com/news/businesswire-feed/2012/march/28/western-union-mtn-announce-launch-of-mobile-money-transfer-service-in-uganda-provides-9000-branded-mobile-phones-20120328005318/)
Well, if they are android phones, that just gives them a free way to run a bitcoin app. Even though the phone will be free, I'll bet that the transaction fees won't be waived for WU payments. So now that they have a phone, load it up with bitcoin and start trading with close to zero fees. Win!


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 29, 2012, 11:28:36 PM
Cheap Android phones are starting to take over even in Africa. I tried the Bitcoin Wallet app on a phone being sold in Kenya for about $80, it worked fine.

Smartphones are now at 50% penetration in the U.S. (with 2/3rd of all new phones sold being smartphones as well):

https://i.imgur.com/ZPUu4.jpg (http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3)

 - http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3

Well, if they are android phones, that just gives them a free way to run a bitcoin app. Even though the phone will be free,

What I am concerned with is "the Linode problem".  All these mobiles are managed devices.   They can be fully controlled by someone other than the owner of the device.  Yes, they are managed by the carrier but possibly that carrier has people that cannot be trusted or, just as bad, has people who don't maintain secure systems themselves such as what reportedly is what happened at Linode.

The importance is thiis.  An attack that defrauds M-Pesa's customers en mass means Safaricom figures out at some point that there's a problem, halts all affected systems to prevent further losses, and in the end eats some, most or all of the customer's losses.  A similar attack through the managed services of the mobile network to steal bitcoins from mobiles means just that the individual mobile user alone loses out.  Just like how Linode disavowed any responsibility to Slush, Bitcoinica, etc. for the tens of thousands of bitcoins lost, Safaricom would likely maintain the same position.

So, this is a fundamental question -- is the practice of storing bitcoin private keys on the mobile something that exposes it to too much risk to where it shouldn't even be considered?  i.e., bitcoin apps for mobile need to be under the same model that mobile banking (like M-Pesa) uses?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on April 29, 2012, 10:33:47 AM
Fairly short article in the Economist (well, short for the Economist):
 
Quote
One business where the poorest continent is miles ahead

There were 20 countries in which more than 10% of adults say they used mobile money at some point in 2011.

Of those, 15 are African.

In Kenya, Sudan and Gabon half or more of adults used mobile money.

Most mobile-phone transactions are tiny. Market traders, for example, use mobile phones to pay peasant farmers for a single bag of cassava or maize-meal. One of the most successful mobile-phone products in Kenya is a SIM card costing just a few cents—but that is all people need for the occasional transaction.

Mobile phones are also used to bank remittances from family members abroad.  This may explain why mobile money has done so well in Somalia, a country which barely has a government, but where a third of adults said they used mobile money last year. Somalia is one of the countries that most depends on remittances: one study found that 80% of the capital for start-up firms came from the diaspora

 - http://www.economist.com/node/21553510?fsrc=scn/tw/te/ar/press1formodernity


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Otoh on June 02, 2012, 09:50:34 PM
NYT article on the international money transfer business atm, ie WU $10 fee to send $50 = 20% & a rip off exchange rate on top of that too

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/02/business/new-rules-for-money-transfers-but-few-limits.html?_r=1


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: cypherdoc on June 02, 2012, 10:38:33 PM
NYT article on the international money transfer business atm, ie WU $10 fee to send $50 = 20% & a rip off exchange rate on top of that too

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/02/business/new-rules-for-money-transfers-but-few-limits.html?_r=1

i think i'm going to go short this puppy first thing Monday:

https://i.imgur.com/qoKFG.png


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: nimda on June 02, 2012, 10:46:47 PM
This is already possible. Coinapult (https://bitcointalk.org/annoyance.php) allows controlling bitcoin funds via SMS


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on June 03, 2012, 06:22:30 AM
This is already possible. Coinapult (https://bitcointalk.org/annoyance.php) allows controlling bitcoin funds via SMS

Coinapult's service is limited to U.S. and Canada numbers for now. 

Plus, they rely on 1% fee from users of API, but they have to pay for each SMS.  i.e., they may need to make some adjustments in fees in order to expand or maintain current service even.

But when they do figure it out, ... this will definitely finally let Bitcoin permeate to developing nations.  SMS wallets are a big deal.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Jan on June 03, 2012, 07:33:05 AM
What I am concerned with is "the Linode problem".  All these mobiles are managed devices.   They can be fully controlled by someone other than the owner of the device.  Yes, they are managed by the carrier but possibly that carrier has people that cannot be trusted or, just as bad, has people who don't maintain secure systems themselves such as what reportedly is what happened at Linode.
I don't know where you buy your phone and what deal you have with your carrier. Both my android and iPhone were purchased at full price and unlocked and my SIMs purchased independently. My carrier is in no position to snoop into or alter any apps on my phones.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on June 03, 2012, 09:13:17 AM
I don't know where you buy your phone and what deal you have with your carrier. Both my android and iPhone were purchased at full price and unlocked and my SIMs purchased independently. My carrier is in no position to snoop into or alter any apps on my phones.

This is the type of threat I'm describing:
 - http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/18/3028207/zte-score-backdoor-vulnerability-confirmed-skate
 - http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/15076/i-found-that-the-company-i-work-for-is-putting-a-backdoor-into-mobile-phones


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Jan on June 03, 2012, 02:39:23 PM
I don't know where you buy your phone and what deal you have with your carrier. Both my android and iPhone were purchased at full price and unlocked and my SIMs purchased independently. My carrier is in no position to snoop into or alter any apps on my phones.

This is the type of threat I'm describing:
 - http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/18/3028207/zte-score-backdoor-vulnerability-confirmed-skate
 - http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/15076/i-found-that-the-company-i-work-for-is-putting-a-backdoor-into-mobile-phones
Thanks for the links. If you buy an iPhone buy it directly from Apple and not for 1$ with a crazy plan and software pre-installed by your carrier. If you buy an android nuke it with your favorite open source package.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: DublinBrian on June 03, 2012, 02:46:27 PM
Iphones come pre-installed with the keylogger made by CarrierIQ
Quote
Carrier IQ, the now infamous “rootkit” or “keylogger”, is not just for Android, Symbian, BlackBerry, and even webOS. In fact, up through and including iOS 5, Apple has included a copy of Carrier IQ on the iPhone. However, it does appears to be disabled along with diagnostics enabled on iOS 5; older versions may send back information in more cases.
http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Jan on June 03, 2012, 03:03:47 PM
Iphones come pre-installed with the keylogger made by CarrierIQ
Quote
Carrier IQ, the now infamous “rootkit” or “keylogger”, is not just for Android, Symbian, BlackBerry, and even webOS. In fact, up through and including iOS 5, Apple has included a copy of Carrier IQ on the iPhone. However, it does appears to be disabled along with diagnostics enabled on iOS 5; older versions may send back information in more cases.
http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737
Read the page you linked to. It is not a key logger.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: cypherdoc on June 03, 2012, 03:06:28 PM
Iphones come pre-installed with the keylogger made by CarrierIQ
Quote
Carrier IQ, the now infamous “rootkit” or “keylogger”, is not just for Android, Symbian, BlackBerry, and even webOS. In fact, up through and including iOS 5, Apple has included a copy of Carrier IQ on the iPhone. However, it does appears to be disabled along with diagnostics enabled on iOS 5; older versions may send back information in more cases.
http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737
Read the page you linked to. It is not a key logger.

Would you mind sharing how you"nuked" your Android?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Jan on June 03, 2012, 03:24:18 PM
Iphones come pre-installed with the keylogger made by CarrierIQ
Quote
Carrier IQ, the now infamous “rootkit” or “keylogger”, is not just for Android, Symbian, BlackBerry, and even webOS. In fact, up through and including iOS 5, Apple has included a copy of Carrier IQ on the iPhone. However, it does appears to be disabled along with diagnostics enabled on iOS 5; older versions may send back information in more cases.
http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737
Read the page you linked to. It is not a key logger.

Would you mind sharing how you"nuked" your Android?
I use CyanogenMod: www.cyanogenmod.com
There are probably others.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: cryptoanarchist on June 03, 2012, 03:29:30 PM
Cheap Android phones are starting to take over even in Africa. I tried the Bitcoin Wallet app on a phone being sold in Kenya for about $80, it worked fine.

By the time Bitcoin has become big/interesting enough to make real headway in poorer countries the concept of a non-smart phone won't exist. As Apple is unlikely to ever make a real assault on the low end of the market, I think almost all of these devices will be cheap Chinese-manufactured Androids, which is perfect for us.

I know people in/from Nigeria, and this is definitely true. More people access the internet there with smart phones than with computers.


Perhaps the real problem with introducing Bitcoin in Africa (or any other developing economy) is to identify the killer application that will motivate people to give it a try.  The only really compelling application I've heard of would be remittances from abroad.  I have read that currently those with out bank accounts must rely on Western Union and pay up to a 20% transfer fee.


+ a million. You couldn't have hit the nail more on the head here.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: bitlizard on June 03, 2012, 11:30:24 PM
Cheap Android phones are starting to take over even in Africa. I tried the Bitcoin Wallet app on a phone being sold in Kenya for about $80, it worked fine.

Smartphones are now at 50% penetration in the U.S. (with 2/3rd of all new phones sold being smartphones as well):

https://i.imgur.com/ZPUu4.jpg (http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3)

 - http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3

Well, if they are android phones, that just gives them a free way to run a bitcoin app. Even though the phone will be free,

What I am concerned with is "the Linode problem".  All these mobiles are managed devices.   They can be fully controlled by someone other than the owner of the device.  Yes, they are managed by the carrier but possibly that carrier has people that cannot be trusted or, just as bad, has people who don't maintain secure systems themselves such as what reportedly is what happened at Linode.

The importance is thiis.  An attack that defrauds M-Pesa's customers en mass means Safaricom figures out at some point that there's a problem, halts all affected systems to prevent further losses, and in the end eats some, most or all of the customer's losses.  A similar attack through the managed services of the mobile network to steal bitcoins from mobiles means just that the individual mobile user alone loses out.  Just like how Linode disavowed any responsibility to Slush, Bitcoinica, etc. for the tens of thousands of bitcoins lost, Safaricom would likely maintain the same position.

So, this is a fundamental question -- is the practice of storing bitcoin private keys on the mobile something that exposes it to too much risk to where it shouldn't even be considered?  i.e., bitcoin apps for mobile need to be under the same model that mobile banking (like M-Pesa) uses?

could the problem be solved with cold storage? like a thumbdrive with a wallet.dat file and some level of encryption?  A thumb drive could make a great vault for someone store their wealth cheaply and with a relatively high level of security in a third world country. 


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Jan on June 03, 2012, 11:55:39 PM
Cheap Android phones are starting to take over even in Africa. I tried the Bitcoin Wallet app on a phone being sold in Kenya for about $80, it worked fine.

Smartphones are now at 50% penetration in the U.S. (with 2/3rd of all new phones sold being smartphones as well):

https://i.imgur.com/ZPUu4.jpg (http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3)

 - http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3

Well, if they are android phones, that just gives them a free way to run a bitcoin app. Even though the phone will be free,

What I am concerned with is "the Linode problem".  All these mobiles are managed devices.   They can be fully controlled by someone other than the owner of the device.  Yes, they are managed by the carrier but possibly that carrier has people that cannot be trusted or, just as bad, has people who don't maintain secure systems themselves such as what reportedly is what happened at Linode.

The importance is thiis.  An attack that defrauds M-Pesa's customers en mass means Safaricom figures out at some point that there's a problem, halts all affected systems to prevent further losses, and in the end eats some, most or all of the customer's losses.  A similar attack through the managed services of the mobile network to steal bitcoins from mobiles means just that the individual mobile user alone loses out.  Just like how Linode disavowed any responsibility to Slush, Bitcoinica, etc. for the tens of thousands of bitcoins lost, Safaricom would likely maintain the same position.

So, this is a fundamental question -- is the practice of storing bitcoin private keys on the mobile something that exposes it to too much risk to where it shouldn't even be considered?  i.e., bitcoin apps for mobile need to be under the same model that mobile banking (like M-Pesa) uses?

could the problem be solved with cold storage? like a thumbdrive with a wallet.dat file and some level of encryption?  A thumb drive could make a great vault for someone store their wealth cheaply and with a relatively high level of security in a third world country. 
You still need to load the thumb drive / SD card into a trusted network connected computing device to do transactions. I would prefer a stripped down phone over some PC anytime. And, a phone is a lot cheaper plus easier to operate. BitcoinSpinner can actually almost do this seamlessly. A village can share a stripped down android phone and each user has his own QR-code backup on paper. To do a transaction you restore your backup, do your transaction, and restore some empty account. Your private keys are only in memory until you restore the empty account. A "clear" button could be added to eliminate the last step.
Thoughts?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: nimda on June 04, 2012, 12:17:01 AM
lol, GMail picked this thread's reply email up as spam. Let's see...
"Money", "Africa", "Wealth", "Kenya", "Bank"

All it needs is "Nigeria" to be complete!


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: bitlizard on June 04, 2012, 02:59:03 AM
Cheap Android phones are starting to take over even in Africa. I tried the Bitcoin Wallet app on a phone being sold in Kenya for about $80, it worked fine.

Smartphones are now at 50% penetration in the U.S. (with 2/3rd of all new phones sold being smartphones as well):

https://i.imgur.com/ZPUu4.jpg (http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3)

 - http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-penetration-2012-3

Well, if they are android phones, that just gives them a free way to run a bitcoin app. Even though the phone will be free,

What I am concerned with is "the Linode problem".  All these mobiles are managed devices.   They can be fully controlled by someone other than the owner of the device.  Yes, they are managed by the carrier but possibly that carrier has people that cannot be trusted or, just as bad, has people who don't maintain secure systems themselves such as what reportedly is what happened at Linode.

The importance is thiis.  An attack that defrauds M-Pesa's customers en mass means Safaricom figures out at some point that there's a problem, halts all affected systems to prevent further losses, and in the end eats some, most or all of the customer's losses.  A similar attack through the managed services of the mobile network to steal bitcoins from mobiles means just that the individual mobile user alone loses out.  Just like how Linode disavowed any responsibility to Slush, Bitcoinica, etc. for the tens of thousands of bitcoins lost, Safaricom would likely maintain the same position.

So, this is a fundamental question -- is the practice of storing bitcoin private keys on the mobile something that exposes it to too much risk to where it shouldn't even be considered?  i.e., bitcoin apps for mobile need to be under the same model that mobile banking (like M-Pesa) uses?

could the problem be solved with cold storage? like a thumbdrive with a wallet.dat file and some level of encryption?  A thumb drive could make a great vault for someone store their wealth cheaply and with a relatively high level of security in a third world country. 
You still need to load the thumb drive / SD card into a trusted network connected computing device to do transactions. I would prefer a stripped down phone over some PC anytime. And, a phone is a lot cheaper plus easier to operate. BitcoinSpinner can actually almost do this seamlessly. A village can share a stripped down android phone and each user has his own QR-code backup on paper. To do a transaction you restore your backup, do your transaction, and restore some empty account. Your private keys are only in memory until you restore the empty account. A "clear" button could be added to eliminate the last step.
Thoughts?

LOL sounds totally user friendly and intuitive! One big obstacle that bitcoin has is with userfriendlness, and I am qualified to talk about this as I am an absolute computer noob compared to 99% of the people on this forum. If the bitcoin community want to use bitcoin to solve economic problems in third world countries then IMO it must address userfriendlyness first and unfortunately we are not quite there yet.  My original thought on the flashdrive vault was that a trusted third party would sell a flashdrive with a unique .dat file on it and give the purchaser a public key that was associated with the .dat file, but now that I think about it, the idea presents a serious and obvious moral hazard that the issuer could copy and later steal the data and btc on the drive. So i guess that idea is not valid. Is there really no way to secure a phone to the point that not even the service provider could hack it?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on June 08, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
Want to become an internet billionaire? Move to Africa
By David Rowan 04 November 11

...Seriously. The internet is only now arriving, and -- with a billion people on the continent still mostly offline -- there exists a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to build the next Zyngas, eBays and Groupons for a huge untapped local market.
...
A few obvious markets primed for explosive growth:

Mobile money
Who needs banks if you can use your mobile to send and receive cash? More than a quarter of Kenya's GDP now passes through a phone-to-phone network called M-Pesa, and in Uganda MTN MobileMoney has almost two million users. As Cameron put it in a speech to Lagos Business School, "Today, mobile banking systems mean we can cut out middlemen and make a direct impact on the lives of small farmers who can produce more food, feed their families, sell more food at the market and in turn buy more seed."

E-commerce
You don't need a smartphone, let alone a PC, to shop online. The American startup SlimTrader runs a service called MoBiashara, which lets African consumers shop by mobile on basic cellphones. And there are half a billion of those in Africa.

Read all:
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-11/04/get-rich-move-to-africa (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-11/04/get-rich-move-to-africa)


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on June 13, 2012, 12:50:37 AM
Interesting article about Paga in Lagos. Nigeria:


Quote
The business officially opened in early 2011 after receiving approval from the Central Bank of Nigeria.

Paga now employs 68 and has more than 42,000 Nigerian customers who can transfer money, purchase airtime credit, and pay bills with their cell phones using the system. Investors in the company include Timothy Draper, founder of global venture capital firm Draper Fisher Jurvetson

Draper is an investor in CoinLab (Seattle, WA).

Quote
He dialed a colleague's cell phone number in Nigeria and punched in the amount of money he wanted to transfer to her from his Paga account, followed by his PIN number. After a few moments, a recorded voice confirmed the transaction, while a text message alerted his colleague about how much money had been sent. The entire process took about 35 seconds. There's no charge to pay bills or add cell phone airtime, but mobile money senders are charged a fee based on the amount transferred.

Sending as an IVR (interative voice response).    There was an IVR wallet project that was abandoned and then open sourced, but nobody continuing it.
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43734.0


Quote
The company has a network of 550 agents, typically mom-and-pop merchants who already run grocery stores or pharmacies. Customers can go to those agents to deposit cash into their Paga accounts, and then conduct mobile transactions using those funds. The company also has a partnership with several Nigerian banks that accept Paga account deposits. So far, Oviosu said the average transaction size is modest, about 3,000 Nigerian naira, which is the equivalent of about $20 U.S.

That's where bitcoin growth can go from nothing and explode into ubiquity in a short while.  Here, each of those 550 agents earns a commission for accepting cash, as a trusted partner in Paga's network.  But with bitcoin, there can be 5,500 agents,  55,000 agents.  etc.,  ... each acting as an independent exchanger.  Because they don't need some mobile carrier's permission to be an "agent", this will be a necessary prerequisite for Bitcoin's growth (yet at the same time its biggest reason for succeess over competing, carrier-based approaches).

 - http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/headlines/oviosu_mobile_2012.html


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on June 30, 2012, 07:09:18 PM
Incidentally, Blockchain.info now supports a method to send funds to any mobile number.  (The text sent contains a URL that is used on the mobile's web access to store the funds in a Blockchain.info wallet or to forward the bitcoins elsewhere.  Data service is required to do that from the mobile.)


https://i.imgur.com/Mlq6G.png

 - https://blockchain.info/wallet/send-via
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40264.msg1000327#msg1000327


As that URL sent is a bearer code (spendable by anyone with access to the data), I question whether this approach, and consider another problem due to SMS being a channel controlled by the government here:

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90901.0


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on July 15, 2012, 08:54:12 PM
Now that Bitcoin Nordic accepts payments using CashU, which in turn accepts UKash vouchers for adding funds, bitcoins can now be purchased in quite a few more countries:

in Africa this include:


 - Algeria
 - Egypt
 - Ghana
 - Libya
 - Morocco
 - Nigeria
 - South Africa
 - Tunisia

Additionally, funds to CashU can be sent online in:

Algeria, Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Libya, Mauritius, Morocco, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Tanzania, Tunisia in addition to many others in the Middle East as well.

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/UKash#Africa
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Nordic
 - http://www.BitcoinNordic.com


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Ichthyo on July 16, 2012, 12:16:09 AM
Now that Bitcoin Nordic accepts payments using CashU, which in turn accepts UKash vouchers for adding funds, bitcoins can now be purchased in quite a few more countries...

While I like the general Idea of pushing the use of bitcoins into parts of the world with weak governmental infrastructure, the offer of Bitcoin Nordic doesn't exactly look like it can be a game changer....

Quote from: Bitcoin Nordic Website https://bitcoinnordic.com/cashu/index.php
cashU is a prepaid payment service. To buy bitcoins using cashU you need to create a cashU payment account.
....

Price
Price will be MtGox USD 24 hour average +15% at the time of processing which is currently 8.721991 USD.

Well, Western Union isn't cheap either, but really, do we expect people to pick up something quite novel and challenging (where you have to care yourself for security and infrastructure, especially if you're a merchant) at such a premium?

Just my 0.02 BTC

-- Ichthyo



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on July 16, 2012, 06:36:32 AM
Well, Western Union isn't cheap either, but really, do we expect people to pick up something quite novel and challenging (where you have to care yourself for security and infrastructure, especially if you're a merchant) at such a premium?

Here's a post from another thread that directly responds to this:

Of course the added expenses in converting from cash through payment intermediaries like CashU will limit bitcoin's usefulness in the instances where that is needed.  But compare the costs to Western Union though and to other methods of sending money from one part of a country to another, or internationally within Africa or overseas, and this doesn't end up being such an uncompetitive rate.

Here's an example of why this matters:

https://i.imgur.com/hmDNU.jpg
 - http://pymnts.com/commentary/Tips-for-2012-Understanding-Payment-Behavior-of-African-Households-A-Vast-and-Untapped-Market/

That shows that more than half of remittances do not use mobile payments.

Few mobile payment networks support international remittance transactions being one reason for that.  
 - http://technology.cgap.org/2012/03/21/what-do-international-remittances-mean-for-mobile-money-cgap-releases-study-on-remittances

But bitcoins won't just be useful as an alternative to Western Union for remittance transfers for the continent.  They'll be useful for a wide variety of transactions -- they can be used to pay for a commercial shipment electronically so that the delivery driver isn't carrying large amounts of cash, for instance.  Bitcoins will be useful for travelers who wish to convert out of the currency in one country and then used to acquire local currency in the next.

So even with a high level of friction when buying bitcoins using CashU, once bitcoins are acquired they can circulate without being converted back to fiat outside the local community.  

This is sure to happen since anyone can function as an exchange.  This exchange function is one that has almost no barrier to entry and could be profitable for those who begin to offer this service.  The techies at the cyber-cafe are likely one example of where these first exchanges will occur  -- especially since that's where tourists are found.   Or those already operating as exchange agents might start participating as adding bitcoin to the mix is just a small additional effort.

Keep this in mind ... with each Western Union transaction sucking a minimum of 10% of the payment, and mobile payments in the 5% range for smaller payments (e.g., under $40 range), bitcoins when purchased through CashU even don't need to change hands twice before they've become a better value as a payment system than had the same amount of funds been transferred through the alternatives.

The key though is that previously there was no way to seed this.  This CashU option actually gives the ability for entrepreneurial individuals on the ground there to get bitcoins into their hands so that they have something to use to start trading.

Next what is needed are some stories of actual bitcoin commerce occurring.  For instance, there are many tech and business incubators on the continent  - a perfect place for bitcoins to begin circulating among a small group of willing participants who generally are among the early adopters and wouldn't entirely resist trying something new like this.  Here's an example:

 - http://www.meltwater.org/who-we-are/our-campus/



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Boussac on July 16, 2012, 08:16:50 AM
The system used in Africa is based on the GSM standard that lets the operator put simple menus on the users screen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data

Yes because mobile internet is not enough widespread there yet (even if there are tens of millions of smartphones in the field).

The problem is that the SIM is still needed to identify whoever initiated the USSD session, meaning that the roadblock here is not technical but contractual: one needs to convince the local mobile operator to deploy the system, right ?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on July 22, 2012, 02:05:25 AM
Here's a post from another thread that directly responds to this:

Next what is needed are some stories of actual bitcoin commerce occurring.  For instance, there are many tech and business incubators on the continent  - a perfect place for bitcoins to begin circulating among a small group of willing participants who generally are among the early adopters and wouldn't entirely resist trying something new like this.  Here's an example:

 - http://www.meltwater.org/who-we-are/our-campus/


The co-founder of Ushahidi, Erik Hersman, wrote an article on how there is tech growing from within, for solving the problems that those living there see them.


"From Kenya to Madagascar: The African tech-hub boom"
 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18878585

Excerpts:

Quote
I've talked to a couple of start-up entrepreneurs - Pule Mmolotsi, who is testing out an Oyster-like card for public transportation in the country.
[...]
in the past two years there has been an interesting phenomenon in Africa - the proliferation of tech hubs and incubators.
[...]
There are now more than 50 tech hubs, labs, incubators and accelerators in Africa, covering more than 20 countries. In Nairobi, we have six.
[...]
if we had waited for the government to create the iHub in Kenya, we would still be waiting today.
[...]
Innovation comes from the edges, so it comes as no surprise that innovators are found in the margins. They are the misfits among us, the ones who see and do things differently.
[...]
The tech hubs in Africa provide a home for those with new and innovative ideas, create an atmosphere where they are encouraged to try new things, and most importantly are able to meet like-minded individuals they can grow with.


Erik is aware of bitcoin.  A few months ago he tweeted:
"OH @iHub: "Bitcoin gets bad press since it reminds us all that currency is a shared delusion"
 - http://twitter.com/whiteafrican/status/192945935372914689

I've no doubt bitcoins are a topic being discussed every so often in these tech spaces.

I look forward to learning how bitcoin might be used in new way there.  


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: DublinBrian on August 13, 2012, 09:12:36 PM
Some african central banks are trying to dissuade their citizens from using the USD.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/africa-just-says-nein-us-dollar-time-go-short-usdzmk-and-usdghc

The interesting part of the article for me was this at the end.

Quote
A central bank ceiling on over-the-counter dollar transactions at banks has sent Ghana's class of China-bound traders into street-side foreign-exchange bureaus that normally cater to fanny-pack-clad tourists. Chinese importers often show up just before flights back to China desperate to buy $100,000.
It seems that african importers of chinese goods pay for those goods by physically carrying dollar bills on flights to china. It would be far more secure and private for those business travellers to carry bitcoins.

If anyone is in Ghana, I think these exchange bureaus and their business travelling customers need to be introduced to bitcoin.


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Paul Troon on July 08, 2013, 02:47:26 PM
Here's an interesting development:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252238.0

Quote
Kenyans will be able to send and receive Bitcoin and convert it to and from an M-Pesa balance. You can also buy and invest in Bitcoin. Though what stands out the most is probably the fact that the Kenyan diaspora will now compete with international transfer companies such as Western Union. Exchanging money will thus be made much cheaper as Bitcoin only charge US$0.04.
Kipochi works on all mobile phones, having SMS, USSD and HTML5 frontends, as well as a desktop computers
.



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: villanfonsDC on July 09, 2013, 01:17:56 AM
How can east africa become cashless...?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: jasperIL2267 on July 09, 2013, 01:24:31 AM
I doubt africans will EVER accept Bitcoin..


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on July 09, 2013, 01:59:18 AM
Here's an interesting development:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252238.0

And another interesting development:
 - http://localbitcoins.blogspot.fi/2013/07/trading-bitcoins-using-m-pesa-in-kenya.html

I'm not familiar enough with M-PESA t know what this offers though.  I need to be an M-PESA agent to accept funds, right?   And if I'm an M-PESA agent there's probably a terms-of-service as to what transactions are allowed.   Or am I misunderstanding how it works?


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: moni3z on July 09, 2013, 07:10:20 AM
Only way to be an M-PESA agent is to have 3 businesses operating for longer than 6mos, and they have to be physical locations in 2 different provinces/territories and you need police dept references. Lol

Individuals can just send money to each other without being an agent, and I think "premium" M-PESA accounts can receive up to USD$30,000 per month. They claim no chargebacks are possible but yeah once fraudsters start using stolen bank accounts to bill pay M-PESA accounts and cash them all out in 24hrs that will change.



Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: Stephen Gornick on July 10, 2013, 01:27:08 AM
Individuals can just send money to each other without being an agent,

I found a fantastic article describing M-PESA further:
 - http://www.cgap.org/blog/10-things-you-thought-you-knew-about-m-pesa

So an individual can have a balance no more than 50,000 KES (~ $575 USD).  
There cannot be more than 70,000 KES (~ $800 USD) transferred out of an account per day, and 35,000 KES (~ $400 USD) is the most that can be transferred in a a single transaction.

So while these limits have relatively small amounts, they are still high enough that an individual could use this service for a remittance payment to family back in Kenya.  

There already is an M-PESA IMT (international money transfer) method in which money is sent through Western Union and the recipient is an M-PESA user but of course the fees for that are quite high -- generally, at least 10% or more for transfers of $400 or less including loss when the exchange rate conversion occurs.  

With Kipochi the sender can handle all the transfer details and the remittance recipient gets an SMS alert when the funds arrive in M-PESA.  So there is no learning curve or technical hurdle here on the recipient's end.

There's even room for an individual to become an independent provider (agent) of Bitcoin remittance cash-out.  This person would use Kipochi to get started by converting bitcoins received into a form of funds the agent can use for spending.  Then once that agent's volume is heavy enough it then makes sense to work with a local Bitcoin exchanger (to restock the agent's inventory of schillings) and skip the costly M-PESA conversion entirely, as every schilling counts!


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: row5_seat47 on February 03, 2014, 12:58:11 AM
CGAP: Bitcoin Not Helping the Poor
World Bank and Gates Foundation Sponsored CGAP Gives Bitcoin Thumbs Down

In depth article here
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/cgap-bitcoin-not-helping-the-poor/


Title: Re: Mobile money slowly turning East Africa into cashless society
Post by: bitcerto on February 03, 2014, 01:57:33 AM
The infrastructure will expand and the internet will continue to be increasingly accessible.

I believe we'll start seeing countries who have been trying to escape laughably unstable national currencies unofficially adopt BTC, or some alt coin made for them. Imagine being a person in Cambodia who is now able to use BTC (smartphones and internet reach is no problem there) and sidestep the strange mix of USD and the Kip.

Simply having easy access to a decentralized currency is a game changer for people in "third world" (that title is so outdated and demeaning). Africa alone hosts countless countries that haven't been able to setup a stable economy. As long as they have a decent telecommunications infrastructure, they can tap into the relatively stable BTC economy.

It's an interesting situation and one I'm happy to be alive to see. We're looking at giving billions of people access to a currency that sidesteps all of their national bullshit and faults. Of course, there is work to be done, but I hope to see emerging markets and developing countries adopt the use of BTC and perhaps an alt or two.