Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Dusty on February 19, 2012, 08:47:15 PM



Title: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: Dusty on February 19, 2012, 08:47:15 PM
This news shocks me: it show how powerful just one organization (SWIFT) has.
SWIFT can isolate a country from the rest of the world with the click of a button, causing enormous problems to the population.

That seems to me a very good reason to why countries should endorse Bitcoin, thus enabling them to be financial indipendent.

From the article (http://cryptogon.com/?p=27626):

When I studied International Relations in college, we were taught that economic sanctions could be on par with, “Rockets and bombs,” as one professor put it, and potentially much worse. Questions about economic sanctions amounting to collective punishment and other violations of International Law are ignored by the perpetrators. These types of policies resulted in a holocaust in Iraq.

The only conclusion that I can draw from the news below is that the decision has already been made to militarily engage Iran and this is an attempt to cause Iran to lash out first. In the event that Iran doesn’t strike first, a false flag incident could be fabricated easily.

If SWIFT actually pulls the plug, I’d consider the fuse to be lit. Also, if SWIFT does it before 20 March, this is probably the real reason:

Quote
Last week, the Tehran Times noted that the Iranian oil bourse will start trading oil in currencies other than the dollar from March 20. This long-planned move is part of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s vision of economic war with the west.
“The dispute over Iran’s nuclear programme is nothing more than a convenient excuse for the US to use threats to protect the ‘reserve currency’ status of the dollar,” the newspaper, which calls itself the voice of the Islamic Revolution, said.

Via: Reuters:

Belgium-based SWIFT, which provides banks with a system for moving funds around the world, bowed to international pressure on Friday and said it was ready to block Iranian banks from using its network to transfer money.

Expelling Iranian banks from the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication would shut down Tehran’s main avenue to doing business with the rest of the world – an outcome the West believes is crucial to curbing Iran’s nuclear ambitions.

SWIFT, which has never cut off a country before, has been closely following efforts in the United States and the European Union to develop new sanctions targeting Iran that would directly affect EU-based financial institutions.

The United States and EU have already moved to sanction Iran’s central bank.
“SWIFT stands ready to act and discontinue its services to sanctioned Iranian financial institutions as soon as it has clarity on EU legislation currently being drafted,” the company said in an emailed statement.

The United States has been pushing the European Union to force SWIFT to evict the Iranian firms but it was unclear whether the EU would reach an agreement.
For one, SWIFT’s home country, Belgium, does not think the global banking firm should be the only company of its kind required to comply with sanctions.

The Obama administration said it welcomed SWIFT’s intention to stop transactions involving designated Iranian banks. “We will continue to be in contact with our EU partners to urge action on this issue,” a U.S. Treasury official said.

SWIFT, with headquarters just outside the Belgian capital Brussels, is vital to international money flows, exchanging an average 18 million payment messages per day between banks and other financial institutions in 210 countries.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: kangasbros on February 19, 2012, 09:15:46 PM
1. A person with a western bank account goes to iran
2. The person sets up a bitcoin cash exchange
3. The person can sell and buy bitcoins, establishing international money transfers

Anyone see any potential problems with this? Of course the Iranian goverment could stop this etc, but other than that.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: Soros Shorts on February 20, 2012, 12:31:56 AM
Anyone see any potential problems with this?
Yes, you'd probably end up with an excess of Iranian Rials which you'd have trouble converting into usable currency.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on February 20, 2012, 12:35:17 AM
Anyone see any potential problems with this?
Yes, you'd probably end up with an excess of Iranian Rials which you'd have trouble converting into usable currency.

And become a...

http://www.art-for-a-change.com/blog/images/feb07/target3.jpg


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: giszmo on February 20, 2012, 02:41:09 AM
As i said elsewhere, BTC will not help Iran a bit. At least not for those that want to convert their IRR to BTC as there are no BTC for sale in the country. There could be high demand for BTC in Iran though, so sending BTC to Iran by friends and family would definitely be a way around the embargo but I doubt Iran will embrace the BTC. Actually I would even fear that if Iran officially announced to use BTC to circumvent the SWIFT embargo, this would pose a risk for the BTC.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: hazek on February 20, 2012, 02:55:53 AM
Anyone see any potential problems with this?
Yes, you'd probably end up with an excess of Iranian Rials which you'd have trouble converting into usable currency.

You could sell BTC for gold and silver or say oil or some other commodity..


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: LoupGaroux on February 20, 2012, 02:57:20 AM
So, the superpowers want to smack the Iranians into submission? Just because their delusional head of state wants to build nukes and flip them around the region?

Beats the hell out of Israeli nukes raining down on Tehran, which is the other alternative.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: istar on February 20, 2012, 08:19:18 AM
Its because of the oil, we are close to or at peak oil and oil will now be even more important, the country with the most oil will win unless attacked  ::)

They try to build nukes so that they will not be attacked.

Ofcourse the president of Iran is a maniac the world could be without but he will probably only be replaced by some other religious maniac.



Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: fellowtraveler on February 20, 2012, 09:09:55 AM
If shutting down Napster resulted in Bittorrent, then what will be the result of shutting down SWIFT transfers in and out of Iran?


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: johnyj on February 20, 2012, 10:53:50 AM
It's almost impossible to replace a centralized system without a war  ;)


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: MacRohard on February 20, 2012, 12:11:45 PM
This is pretty interesting, but actually I think it will end up hurting SWIFT more than Iran.

All swift actually does is allow messages to be securely exchanged between banks. They don't need to use it and if they suddenly can't use it - some workaround will be devised which, once in use might turn into a long term swift competitor that can be used by other countries as well.

It will still be possible for Iranian banks to access their correspondent accounts at banks they do business with - it just means they won't be able to use SWIFT to communicate with those banks anymore.

Initially they'll proably have to resort to fax and telephone or even email but soon some other platform will be developped - maybe just some form of online banking that works over the internet the same way our personal accounts do. Or maybe a standardized web services API. All they need to do is be able to see when a payment comes into the foreign bank so they can credit their local customer, or pay someone that their local customer wants to pay. SWIFT isn't really that great anyway and if an alternative is developped it will probably end up being much cheaper.

One thing I read is that Iran's ATM network is linked to the ATM network in Bahrain and maybe some other gulf countries so presumably people living there can easily funnel money into /out of Iranian banks using the ATM network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetab_Banking_System

To understand how pointless this is - someone in Iran can probably just setup an account (either create a Ltd company or maybe even just a personal account) at a bank in Bahrain or Dubai and withdraw cash at ATMs inside Iran over the Shatab system.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: istar on February 20, 2012, 03:16:32 PM
There is no peak oil. It was a big hoax.
Plenty of oil is and will be available everywhere.
Years ago the big deposits were found in USA and Brasil.

Scroll the comments there :
www.marketwatch.com/community/doubledutch/comments/story

Pleeease, do NOT trust mainstream media propaganda BS.
Check for yourself.

Yes you are right, please do not trust mainstream media propaganda.
This does not mean that the world is running out of oil:
It would mean that we might be running out of the cheap pumpable oil that has fueled the economic development of the 20th Century.

Look at these and get back.

Part 1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umFnrvcS6AQ

or forward to end of part 3

Have a look from 3:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyOw9IgtjY

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQd-VGYX3-E

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-X6EpvWWu8

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3y7UlHdhAU


In 2010 the german government did a study of the consequence of the peak oil.
It might have been a worst case scenario it might not.
But why do you think they did that study?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,715138,00.html

And have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qeRaBaPRmk

Now after watching these, do you think its an accident that of all the countires on earth, the US has been involved in wars with
almost only the ones that happen to be on the list of having the greates oil supply?













 





Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: MacRohard on February 20, 2012, 04:21:07 PM
Quote
It would mean that we might be running out of the cheap pumpable oil that has fueled the economic development of the 20th Century.

Even if so -- it does not matter :) There is cheap and  more clean
energy source  -- Natural gas.
Plenty available worldwide. And guess what ? Its price nosediving right now :)


Yes, but that is probably the short term effect of an over investment in shale gas technology.. someone is going to lose alot of money on shale gas. Many of the shale gas fields that were brough online only a few years ago are already starting to deplete. This was not expected. To keep up production there will need to be a massive continuous drilling program that certainly wouldn't be justified by current gas prices. Even as prices go up harvesting relatively small pockets of gas all over the place would require enormous invesment.

It may still be one of our better options, but it's nowhere near as good as oil was, unfortunately. People tend to underestimate the sheer scale of what the oil industry has delivered us - it may not be possible to replace.

I'm quite interested in LENR/cold fusion as there have been some promising experiments recently but probably nothing that will be ready for use anytime soon.

In the short term the oil crisis will be solved by the economy imploding and less people driving around or flying in planes.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: giszmo on February 20, 2012, 05:12:50 PM
Initially they'll proably have to resort to fax and telephone

I had to lol at that :)
Imagine SWIFT on Fax :) 15.000.000 Faxes per day? *5g of paper per sheet? Hmm ... makes 75t of paper. Save the rain forest! Don't kick Iran out of SWIFT!1!


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: pointbiz on February 20, 2012, 07:50:07 PM
Anyone see any potential problems with this?
Yes, you'd probably end up with an excess of Iranian Rials which you'd have trouble converting into usable currency.

You could sell BTC for gold and silver or say oil or some other commodity..

Iran will use its gold/silver to directly buy goods. BTC is an unnecessary middleman when gold/silver is involved.

BTC for oil is a viable option but there is a knowledge gap. Buyer and seller have to have faith in BTC.
 


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: stochastic on February 20, 2012, 08:22:30 PM
Anyone see any potential problems with this?
Yes, you'd probably end up with an excess of Iranian Rials which you'd have trouble converting into usable currency.

There is a lot of USD floating around Iran.  Just accept USD.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: kangasbros on February 20, 2012, 08:36:02 PM

Iran will use its gold/silver to directly buy goods. BTC is an unnecessary middleman when gold/silver is involved.

BTC for oil is a viable option but there is a knowledge gap. Buyer and seller have to have faith in BTC.
 

Gold and silver can't be sent long distances easily & cheaply. BTC could be useful middleman for faster trade.

For example, if a guy from western country wants to send money to Iran, it is not very easy with gold and silver. But it is very easy to send money with bitcoins. Then the receiving person just needs a way to convert those bitcoins to something else, like USD, gold and silver. Converting to Iran currency requires just one contact with a western bank account (tourist, visiting businessman). I guess converting from Iran money to bitcoins may be difficult, but other way around it should be easy  ;D

Other point: the receiving end can just set up a account to some exchange. Then when he receives the bitcoins he can buy dollars with it, and keep the money on the exchange. That way bitcoin exchange rate risk avoided and the guy can have kind of "anonymous bank account".

It requires faith, but when other transmitting methods are difficult/forbidden/risky to your health, maybe people are ready to take the risks.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: hashman on February 21, 2012, 12:06:20 AM
So, the superpowers want to smack the Iranians into submission? Just because their delusional head of state wants to build nukes and flip them around the region?

Beats the hell out of Israeli nukes raining down on Tehran, which is the other alternative.

Is there a full moon tonight or your account got hacked? 

Related reading:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/iran-worried-us-might-be-building-8500th-nuclear-w,27325/



Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: MysteryMiner on February 21, 2012, 04:06:47 AM
Iran already have alternative ATM network in place that other friendly countries started to accept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetab_Banking_System I would love to see dumps from Shetab magstripes if someone have the card. Also if someone here have a Iranian ATM card and are willing to donate the card to me, please write in PM.

Bitcoins can be good for Iran to 1. bypass western sanctions and 2. even more destabilize corrupt western economy and society. This will not be the end for Bitcoins but a next step forward.

If someone here can compose good and convincing letter to Iranian leaders explaining how Bitcoins can help Iran, I will try to deliver the message right to the top.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: Dusty on March 16, 2012, 03:15:45 PM
If someone here can compose good and convincing letter to Iranian leaders explaining how Bitcoins can help Iran, I will try to deliver the message right to the top.
The top being...?

In the meantime that's being confirmed, from SlashDot "Iran is being deleted from the world banking system Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) computers as of Saturday at 1600 UTC."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/iran-cut-off-global-financial-system-15927666#.T2MwdREgffs
http://www.swift.com/news/press_releases/SWIFT_disconnect_Iranian_banks
http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2012/03/15/swift-to-expel-iranian-banks-after-eu-ban/


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: hazek on March 16, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
If someone here can compose good and convincing letter to Iranian leaders explaining how Bitcoins can help Iran, I will try to deliver the message right to the top.

I might be interested in writing something up if you can offer a few more details on who exactly you're planning to show it to and what exactly are their needs and problems.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: RodeoX on March 16, 2012, 06:09:45 PM
1. A person with a western bank account goes to iran
2. The person sets up a bitcoin cash exchange
3. The person can sell and buy bitcoins, establishing international money transfers

Anyone see any potential problems with this? Of course the Iranian goverment could stop this etc, but other than that.
As a US citizen I think this would be a felony. It is against the law to transfer money to or from Iran. At least I believe that is the case. 


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: julz on March 20, 2012, 02:36:53 PM
The simplest method to boost Bitcoin in Iran - is to convince some loudmouth US senator that Iranians are already using Bitcoin to circumvent the blockade.
Senator jumps up and down and screams about how bad that is...  Iranians take note and flock to it.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: hous on April 06, 2013, 09:03:21 PM
I come across a exchange site somewhere on here which i cant find now!!
where can you exchange bitcoin to a Shetab_Banking_account.?


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: MikeH on April 06, 2013, 10:47:55 PM
Iran is on the hit list for the same reason as Iraq and Libya - to maintain the petrodollar and install a Rothschild central bank.



Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: Jobe7 on April 07, 2013, 01:27:42 AM
Iran is on the hit list for the same reason as Iraq and Libya - to maintain the petrodollar and install a Rothschild central bank.



What he said. The nukes are just a typical US/Rothschilds cover story (seriously, doesn't Afghanistan or Iraq ring your bells OP??).

Iran doesn't have a Rothschilds bank (nor does North Korea). I won't say more, cause I like breathing :)


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: RodeoX on April 09, 2013, 01:18:03 PM
Wasn't my idea for Iran to divorce itself from the world and become a pariah state. Iran has chosen to be an enemy of the west and declared economic war. Why on Earth would we encourage their economy in any way? They are simply paying the price for their actions.


Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: BitcoinAshley on April 09, 2013, 01:41:05 PM
Wasn't my idea for Iran to divorce itself from the world and become a pariah state. Iran has chosen to be an enemy of the west and declared economic war. Why on Earth would we encourage their economy in any way? They are simply paying the price for their actions.


ITT: Someone who hasn't been paying attention to U.S. foreign policy for the last 50 300 years.

At this point, it's safe to say that anyone who's not an "enemy of the west" has canceled their subscription to reality.



Title: Re: SWIFT ready to block Iranian bank transactions
Post by: cho on April 09, 2013, 01:48:12 PM
Iran is on the hit list for the same reason as Iraq and Libya - to maintain the petrodollar and install a Rothschild central bank.

Much truth in few words.
See history of central banks in countries having recently "benefited" from U S democracy.