Bitcoin Forum

http://www.coindesk.com/western-union-open-bitcoin-regulated-currency/


So basically...Western Union is whining because they have to follow regulations and want their competition, Bitcoin, regulated too.


Guess what Western Union? You are old news.

A Bitcoin ATM next to every Western Union in the world would make them obsolete.

The central bank "issuing" BTC would kill the entire idea.. and probably the value as it would be so raped at that point.

So much no.. just so much No. 

Do you even money bro?  Why in the Fuck of fucks would you want a central bank to print bitcoin into the trillion billion trillions?

Once upon a time internet came to kill the world of publishing. Rather than denying, those publishing houses embraced it, are now titan. Those who denied are now extinct.

Bitcoin is a protocol, just like SMTP. Anyone can embrace it and the businesses, who can see future, will do it as fast as possible. Banks/WU all will accept it at some point of time. Faster they do, better for their survival :)

Has anybody who has a job ever used WU ?
or anybody who is not the son of the king of Nigeria ?

The WU tellers are everywhere, I don't think I have heard of anyone I know ever using one.

and LOL at the banks using bitcoin, for us, suggestion. Why not just change its name to fiat and  get rid of the annoying blockchain while you are at it.

Bitcoin will be regulated or at least the businesses that pop up around it will be so they have nothing to worry about. If they were smart they would be looking at how to work with Bitcoin because there's always going to be places where people need to easily exchange Bitcoin for cash like in the remittance market and they can take their cut that way, but I'm sure there'll be many other alternatives that will better accommodate for this.

bitcoins does not need to be regulated.. western union can just use the fiat policy of regulation

EG getting customer names, addresses, etc.. and continue 'as if' it was regulated, but just not needing to pay the fee's

afterall western union already has fiat licences. they have insurance policies.. they know who to report suspicious transactions to... so what practical real world extra feature would a bitcoin regulation bring.... answer: none..

analogy
your at a crossroads, there are 2 directions you can go. you know the highway code, you know when its safe to cross. you already have life insurance.. but you wont go down the new road because you think you need to wear new shoes to access it..

my reply "use your knowledge of the rules you already know. and just walk forward"

I don't see any advantage to them in incorporating it. It is the biggest threat to their business model. Why would anyone send bit coin via western union when for .0001 they can send it anywhere and at a much faster speed?  

because western union could become the new version of banking. and remove the old grotty system, making western union expand more then it can imagine. whilst offering customers a more secure and faster way to move funds without customers needing to personally download blockchains and have internet connections (same reason ATM's have a purpose, even though there are localbitcoin websites).

.. or western union can simply be scared, not evolve and just die a slow death

by western union moving over to blockchain value transmitting. thy could easily save money by sacking atleast half their IT support teams around the world, 75% of their IT security staff, 75% of their accountants, and reduce their servers down from a warehouse size, down to a small office size

You make some good points, my natural bias against traditional money transmitters blinds me a bit. If they do it right it could be a win-win. I just don't trust them to do it right I suppose. 

i see it as getting some consumer confidence that bitcoin is a secure system.. but ultimately western union would still be a business, good for some consumers, but they wont stop you from doing your own bitcoin trades on the blockchain..

the way i see it, no new licences are needed or new regulations. the current ones do everything needed already no matter what currency it is, after all th regulations are purely about spotting crimes and reporting it. the other smal part (the cost) is just insurance, which most FIAT companies have insurances already to cover liabilities of upto to a few million+(billions in the case of western union. so nothing new is needed

That actually makes a lot of sense. People and companies seem to think we need new regulations and laws when the existing ones can all ready be applied. 

I suspect Western Union is terrified of bitcoin right now.  Just putting on a brave face.  Why wouldn't WU support bitcoin if their customers asked for it?  One simple reason, it would crush their existing profitability model all to hell that's why.

A central bank issuing Bitcoins that defeats the point of Bitcoin and I think they are well aware that bitcoin is superior for sending.
They were better off just saying if the regulatory environment changes around them we would consider using them
Geez they are getting outmoded and falling behind at this rate they might end up being Polaroid unless they build a new model in the next few years.

Sounds like they will be whining until their business model is on its death bed.  :D

If you don't adapt you die. Forward thinking business are looking for way to integrate bit coin. The dinosaurs like western union will crumble. 

True what they need to do is say we have a plan this is going to work we will integrate Bitcoin and at the same time make new online mobile apps and webpages for Western Union to attract and focus new users and augment our market lines to create new relationships and maximize the resources that we have.

Balance finances and challenges and have a focus for 2020 something to keep the shareholders appetites wet while having a 5 year plan of improvement and innovation.

Just a 2 minute example and yet 10 talking heads can't get it done in the board room  ;D

I think one of the issues that WU has is the question of taxes. If WU were to exchange fiat for bitcoin and then send bitcoin to a 3rd party, but the exchange rate was "below market" would they need to report income to this person? If they were to sell bitcoin at a premium would they need to report this markup as taxable income?

Another issue is that bitcoin itself kind of makes WU obsolete, if you wanted to send someone bitcoin you could just send them the coins to their address instead of going through WU and paying their fees (having to travel to a WU location, show ID to claim funds, ect.). The only thing that WU could really do bitcoin related would be to offer to exchange bitcoin for fiat and/or exchange fiat for bitcoin.

if everyone realized what actually constituted being regulations they would laugh at western union for saying they would wait for bitcoins to be regulated.

1. regulations apply to the company and how the company handles funds. money does not have a consciousness to make good or bad decisions
2. regulations require the company to have liability insurancethis can be obtained whether its fiat, bitcoin or baked beans being traded
3. the policies the business should follow are about reporting crimes and reducing risk. most businesses tailor strategies to achieve this that fit their business model(policy handbook MADE BY THE BUSINSS!!!)businesses can still tailor their strategies to bitcoins and still report criminal suspicions whether is money, bitcoins, baked beans, guns, gold, anything
4. being independently audited and keep records for numerous yearsyou guessed it, nothing new here
5. regulations give the business a licence (certificate) to say the business is doing all 4 mentioned above.

well western union already have a licence... that they can wave above their head to say they are regulated...

there is no practical difference they need to do with bitcoins then any other currency.. so i guess all they want is to show off their boyscouts belt by having an extra meaningless badge stitched on... to show "we know bitcoins"

C'mon. we need a funds transfer system that is controlled by the market rather than by some group. Don't we have enough fiats and controllers already?

:)

Would you all be happy if WU started using Bitcoin to move money instead of ACH or wire transfer?

Take a look at this page and tell me it wouldn't be better looking with a Bitcoin option.

http://onlinefx.westernunion.com/fees/

"Western Union" can go to hell cause Bitcoin already surpasses it in daily transaction volume

could someone explain? what it's mean - "regulated" for Bitcoins? is it real?  I always thought's Bitcons is semi-regulating system

The only thing WU could really do with bitcoin is exchange it with fiat. If someone wanted to send money the same way that western union does they could simply send bitcoin to them.

It is almost like bitcoin is a competitor to western union

If bitcoin is regulated like fiat, it will be as bad as fiat money and no one will use it.

Bye, Western Union.  You're a relic.

If you think banks could ever print bitcoins, you have no idea on how Bitcoin works. Plus, that is completely unrelated to what he said.

Nah. There's a Bitcoin ATM at Hacker Dojo in Mountain View.  15% buy/sell spread, 5% fee. Makes Western Union Money Transfer look cheap.

LOL

in theory it would be possible as long as few enough request to be in control of their own bitcoin and people allow the banks to manage their bitcoin

My client pays 2% fee to send me an international cash transfer via moneygram.
Can Bitcoin ATM beat that?

Bitcoin would more likely then not be less expensive then 2%.

This price does sound low for moneygram transactions. Are they not instant transfers?

Yes, it's an instant transfer.  Although, admittedly, I pick up the money only after 10-18 hours because of time zone differences.
On moneygram's site, when I click on "estimate fees",
it currently shows only a 1.6% fee to transfer 1000 USD from my client to me.
With such low fees, I have little or no motivation to find a cheaper alternative.

Ten years ago, when western union was the only option we had, I recall the WU instant transfer fee was approximately 10% !!

I am very happy to continue using moneygram and continue using traditional banking.
My dream is that bitcoin and altcoins will eventually replace credit cards and paypal because I hate how those guys try to control my activity !
But that's another discussion.

USD to USD transfer is cheap.

For people doing non-usd transfer, that is when bitcoin shine because currency conversion fee alone is usually 2-3%.

Who cares?

By the time western union accepts bitcoin, bitcoin is already bigger than western union.

And besides, who would like to pay huge fees to transfer bitcoin?

Bitcoin will make WU obsolete.

Are you kidding? Do you know how they work? WU could replace ACH/ETF and wire transfers internationally and cash people out in fiat. They could work like a very trustworthy exchange.

So everyone's big plan is to eliminate every business on the planet except Overstock, Dish Network and grocery stores? That's pretty short sighted. I'm exactly the opposite, I want every existing business on the planet to figure out a way to incorporate Bitcoin into their business model.

These are the same people who said:



 :D

I agree with the OP.  Screw Western Union.  They will hold out as long as they possibly can because they know full well this destroy's their virtual monopoly on money transmission services worldwide.  Especially relevant for 2nd and 3rd world nations.  They are the ones literally getting pounded in the keister by ridiculously high fee's.

That's the beauty of a decentralized currency built on a P2P network - it can't be regulated (unless interference with the internet counts as regulation). But as long as we have a need to convert between fiat and bitcoin, then governments can attempt to regulate the companies performing these services.

In this case, I think WU is full of it. We don't need WU to transfer bitcoin and they know it, regulation is just a straw man.

That sounds about right person to person exchanges can still be done with ease between individuals across far distances
Exchanges can remain regulated for larger quantities but more or less it is kept pseudo-anoymous for most transactions on the network.
Less the problem of internet surveillance and IP tracking to Bitcoin clients.

A decentralized currency like bitcoin can very much be regulated. It would need to be regulated when it is traded for fiat