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Other => Beginners & Help => Topic started by: micko1911 on March 03, 2012, 01:02:50 AM



Title: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: micko1911 on March 03, 2012, 01:02:50 AM
i was foolish and too trusting.  now that paypal has sided with the buyer, i think it would be prudent to post the full disclosure (names, phone numbers, addresses,  details) regarding this case.   is this the proper place for that?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: boconniff40 on March 03, 2012, 01:16:37 AM
take it to court


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Kluge on March 03, 2012, 01:20:52 AM
i was foolish and too trusting.  now that paypal has sided with the buyer, i think it would be prudent to post the full disclosure (names, phone numbers, addresses,  details) regarding this case.   is this the proper place for that?
It would not. Do not release the private information of others. We don't know if the names are real, fake, or borrowed, or know for sure they were scammers (not to offend, but we have no idea if you're doing some "4chan army" BS). Never touch Paypal. Ever.

Go to court if you have to, try to settle personally if possible.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 03, 2012, 01:26:33 AM
i was foolish and too trusting.  now that paypal has sided with the buyer,

Would you mind sharing at least some details though?  e.g., How long after the transaction was it before the dispute?   Did PayPal just place a hold (reverse transfer of funds) for the one transaction or did they put a freeze on your account?  Have you done these transactions before?  If so, how many good and how many bad?  And for those who live vicariously through others, how much did you lose?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: BookofNick on March 03, 2012, 01:47:15 AM
I sold $116 worth of BTC on eBay last month. After I sent the bitcoins, the buyer (in Hong Kong) initiated a chargeback, claiming that the charge was made without his consent. Another ebayer tried to warn me, but a little too late.

There's nothing I could do, and there's probably little you can do. PayPal will NOT side with you.

The only upside is that it was my first time being scammed after selling many many BTCs with a high premium on eBay. I won't keep selling them, though. Too much risk.

Sorry, dude. I sympathize with you.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: boconniff40 on March 03, 2012, 01:57:10 AM
after you make shady deals you're suppose to empty your paypal account man, what are you new at this?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: kliffen on March 03, 2012, 12:10:32 PM
This is why i hate fucking paypal.

Lost $155 to this chargeback bullshit, even though i laid out very good proof against the scammer (e-mails and personal messages). I really feel you man, this is bullshit :l


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: tatsuchan on March 03, 2012, 01:30:40 PM
Paypal is a scam.  Isn't this why we're all trying to get things like Bitcoin off the ground???  There is no security there towards buyers.  I used to sell a lot of music equipment, but after some douche accused me of not sending a product (was settled later) my paypal got all screwed up, holding funds, putting holds on my bank account.  I still CANNOT change credit card/bank account info/ or update ANYTHING from my paypal business account.  There are businesses out there that failed because paypal screwed over account holders for $2 charge backs.

Your money is lost.  Consider this.  It costs tens-of-thousands of dollars for a good college education.  You just paid for a class on economics and business transactions.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Bitcoin ShitList on March 03, 2012, 02:00:01 PM
i was foolish and too trusting.  now that paypal has sided with the buyer, i think it would be prudent to post the full disclosure (names, phone numbers, addresses,  details) regarding this case.   is this the proper place for that?


The Bitcoin Shitlist (http://bitcoin-shitlist.com/) is the place to post the full disclosure regarding the case. Just stick to the facts and you(and us) should be OK.

Thank you.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: victory1 on March 04, 2012, 01:28:42 AM
You should not sell BTC via paypal in the first place.

Paypal does not allow any swap or exchange of other e-currency in its platform. They are very sensitive about it.

I recommend you to write this off, the odds are stack against you.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: BlueCorp on March 05, 2012, 03:42:16 AM
Ebay is evil


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: TheHeroMember on March 05, 2012, 04:40:59 AM
i was foolish and too trusting.  now that paypal has sided with the buyer, i think it would be prudent to post the full disclosure (names, phone numbers, addresses,  details) regarding this case.   is this the proper place for that?


Be careful next time.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Jela on March 05, 2012, 03:23:52 PM
Neither ebay nor paypal are inherently evil. You can easily be fooled the same way on the street or in shops if you are unaware of what they are doing or working like.

Just look around to see how a company is acting and take that into consideration before acting. There are enough reports about ebay/paypal in this forum telling you that ebay and/or paypal are dangerous for bitcoin-selling. If you are blind for these dangers because you're just after the profits, fine. But if you are taking the risk (either because you want it or because you are uninformed) then it is also your fault if you are making a loss.

The world isn't black and white. People also need to see their own faults.

With regard do personal details of a scammer: Publication of their personal data is illegal, after all it is personal data. Some person claiming the person to be a scammer doesn't make them one. This other person could perhaps claim the same. Just hearing one side of a story is always just part of the story.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 05, 2012, 04:03:18 PM
I can't say I feel sorry for you. Nor should anyone else.
Your first sentence on the OP described it very well!


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: BlueCorp on March 05, 2012, 04:08:54 PM
How would you know scammer  used another person information and it's not even theirs


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 05, 2012, 04:14:43 PM
How would you know scammer  used another person information and it's not even theirs

By using a little thing called brain...

https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin+ebay+scam


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 05, 2012, 04:24:13 PM
Ebay is evil

Ebay isn't evil.

People making stupid choices doesn't make ebay evil.  Ebay has been pretty consistent.  If you sell digital goods without proof of transfer then ebay is going to side the with buyer.  Maybe unfair but it is stupid for people to keep trying in the face of that policy.

Just got me a nice 24 port gigabit switch for $39 on ebay.  That can't be evil. :)


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: BlueCorp on March 05, 2012, 04:27:18 PM
A google search will tell if the information is real?

And also why do you need a 24 port gigabit switch


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 05, 2012, 04:30:38 PM
A google search will tell if the information is real?

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck should we think it's a chicken?

In this forum alone there are more than 3000 results mentioning the keywords I used...


Also: You walk like a duck and quack like a duck... ::)


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: BlueCorp on March 05, 2012, 04:43:41 PM
I'm a person.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 05, 2012, 04:48:24 PM
I'm a person.

Sure you are. What kind of person is yet to be seen but I have a pretty good suspicion about it. And I don't need google to tell me I'm right about it.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 05, 2012, 04:49:25 PM
why do you need a 24 port gigabit switch

Going to modify my farm to use PXE eliminating the need for USB sticks on each rig.  I could use a switch just for that but I currently have a 24 port switch connectivity for the whole house so replacing it w/ gigabit seems like better option.

At $41.01 (sorry it wasn't $39) the question should be why DON'T you need 24 gigabit ports. :) 16 port would have been fine for my needs but I didn't see one that cheap.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: BlueCorp on March 05, 2012, 05:09:09 PM
Sure you are. What kind of person is yet to be seen but I have a pretty good suspicion about it. And I don't need google to tell me I'm right about it.

Suspicions about What?

why do you need a 24 port gigabit switch

Going to modify my farm to use PXE eliminating the need for USB sticks on each rig.  I could use a switch just for that but I currently have a 24 port switch connectivity for the whole house so replacing it w/ gigabit seems like better option.

At $41.01 (sorry it wasn't $39) the question should be why DON'T you need 24 gigabit ports.  16 port would have been fine for my needs but I didn't see one that cheap.

The reason I don't need a 24 Gigabit port is because I don't have that many connection


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: TheHeroMember on March 06, 2012, 06:41:26 AM
Ebay is evil

Ebay isn't evil.

People making stupid choices doesn't make ebay evil.  Ebay has been pretty consistent.  If you sell digital goods without proof of transfer then ebay is going to side the with buyer.  Maybe unfair but it is stupid for people to keep trying in the face of that policy.

Just got me a nice 24 port gigabit switch for $39 on ebay.  That can't be evil. :)

True, they could have been banned if they're a scam. It could be some negligence on the part of the people who do transactions in their.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Bitcoin.Greece on March 06, 2012, 06:00:47 PM
Don't need to cry about ebay and paypal .Seller must ask for 100+feedbacks ,1 year or more on ebay , and check all previews feedbacks of the buyer . I have zero problems so far


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: kunibopl on March 11, 2012, 10:50:45 PM
is it true, that paypal converts € in BTC?
and if so, that they restrict the amount exchanged?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: BTC guy on March 12, 2012, 01:08:30 AM
I got scammed selling wow time cards on ebay. After i emailed the code the bastard filed an unauthorized transaction. I had no tracking to prove i delivered so paypal took my money away.

Live and learn.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: ForceField on March 12, 2012, 01:18:17 AM
I too, have had a terrible eBay experience and started a thread about what happened.
If you're a seller, eBay will not help you resolve a dispute fairly even if you're right and the buyer is at fault.

Full details here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63484.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63484.0)


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: paraipan on March 12, 2012, 01:50:31 AM
I was thinking to start selling some bitcoins on ebay but after seeing all these people getting scammed i don't think it's a really good idea without taking some measures, pff.

Why not use the postal service then ? Pondering at it for a while i came up with printing priv keys at bitaddress.org then sell as Online Coupons and send them with tracking by post. When the buyers receive the letter i can fund it with bitcoins so they can redeem at mtgox or importing the key into their wallet. Yes, is slow but damn safe. Some thoughts ?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: LoupGaroux on March 12, 2012, 01:53:26 AM
Just a thought here... have any of you actually read the 6 pages of guidelines that eBay has about selling electronically delivered goods? They basically tell you upfront that unless you are one of their PowerSeller butt-buddies you are absolutely ignorant to try to sell electronic delivery, because they will NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN UNDER COURT ORDER side with you. They never have, and never will unless you are Platinum and making them better than $25,000 in fees per month. And if you are that guy, you have a direct phone number to the little weasel in San Jose who will screw your customers for you, so you don't even think about this crap.

Selling a non-tangible good on eBay is the same thing as lighting cigarettes with benjamins, you will never get satisfaction, not even if the rip-off who stole your stuff confesses, admits it was an intentional fraud and offers to pay you back, they still won't find against him.

Keep your records, if it's worth enough talk to your local gendarmes, otherwise write it off on your taxes and chalk up a lesson learned in how not to do business.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: ForceField on March 12, 2012, 02:01:28 AM
I was thinking to start selling some bitcoins on ebay but after seeing all these people getting scammed i don't think it's a really good idea without taking some measures, pff.

Why not use the postal service then ? ...Some thoughts ?

Using USPS (or any other physical carrier) to deliver items that could be delivered digitally will erode your profit margin.

And unfortunately, even then, the buyer could open a ISNAD case against you and most probably win.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: paraipan on March 12, 2012, 02:09:13 AM
I was thinking to start selling some bitcoins on ebay but after seeing all these people getting scammed i don't think it's a really good idea without taking some measures, pff.

Why not use the postal service then ? ...Some thoughts ?

Using USPS (or any other physical carrier) to deliver items that could be delivered digitally will erode your profit margin.

And unfortunately, even then, the buyer could open a ISNAD case against you and most probably win.

Guess i will stick with the toys i have and leave ebay for the "brave" ones  :)


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: koin on March 12, 2012, 03:01:39 AM
the buyer could open a ISNAD case against you and most probably win.

had to look up ISNAD: item significantly not as described.  like this: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-claims/Item-quot-Not-as-described-quot-when-not-even-delivered-yet/td-p/419709


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 03:19:28 AM
Quote
With regard do personal details of a scammer: Publication of their personal data is illegal, after all it is personal data. Some person claiming the person to be a scammer doesn't make them one. This other person could perhaps claim the same. Just hearing one side of a story is always just part of the story.

Yeah, no... what on earth makes you think it's illegal to post personal information?  It drives me crazy when people claim things are illegal and obviously have no idea/a single clue about the law.  Unless that data was obtained through some already illegal or illicit means, it's not illegal to disclose it (there are exceptions, such as if it is stipulated in a contract) - in the case of Fleabay or PayPal, the data is provided to you voluntarily and thus is not covered under any invasion of privacy laws.  

Now, depending what you include WITH that information, such as narration, false facts, etc... that could run a foul of several laws.  But if you are merely providing established facts through data/information obtained legally and with the consent of the party in question, there is nothing illegal about posting it publicly.  Or, alternately, you could include false facts and complete bullshit and claim it's hypothetical or a speculative piece and you'd be fairly well covered.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: PharmaKarma on March 23, 2012, 02:54:55 PM
I sold $116 worth of BTC on eBay last month. After I sent the bitcoins, the buyer (in Hong Kong) initiated a chargeback, claiming that the charge was made without his consent. Another ebayer tried to warn me, but a little too late.

There's nothing I could do, and there's probably little you can do. PayPal will NOT side with you.

The only upside is that it was my first time being scammed after selling many many BTCs with a high premium on eBay. I won't keep selling them, though. Too much risk.

Sorry, dude. I sympathize with you.

You really sold BTC via a process (PP) which provides for charge-backs?   Did you do any research at all?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Superman87 on March 23, 2012, 03:07:41 PM
there are way to many people like that out there. Be careful


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Cinnamon Cayenne on March 25, 2012, 10:52:29 AM
is it true, that paypal converts € in BTC?
and if so, that they restrict the amount exchanged?
I am aware of no Paypal "conversion" for Bitcoins.

In fact, as far as I am aware, Paypal itself avoids dealing with Bitcoins wherever possible.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 25, 2012, 01:51:51 PM
Your wrong dude. I'm Portuguese... From Portugal, one of the most miserable countries in the world. loool
Call me one of the PIG's :p

Also, I've bought bitcoins with paypal several times on this forum, and just ask someone who sold those bitcoins to me if I ever scammed them...

Demographics ain't got shit to do with it. If they did you'd have more chance to be scammed by me than by someone from the US...

But I digress... It's my country who is bankrupted after all, not me. I can proudly say that I make a good amount of money.



Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 25, 2012, 02:16:28 PM
blablahblah your mean blablahblah

well at least your name fits.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: paraipan on March 26, 2012, 01:58:54 AM
I got suspended for selling paperclips with free bitcoins 2 days ago, and yes i sent the damn clips with a tracking number. They want all kind of documents to re-enable my account (http://myworld.ebay.com/bogdan.seme). I had only positive votes with them but the fees are killing me so i think i will pass doing something about it. They will get to know bitcoin in the end.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: deepceleron on March 26, 2012, 03:30:09 AM
The trick to selling bitcoins on eBay is to sell a physical product (that you can track) and slip-in a paper bitcoin(s) at no charge.  Like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160771756692

That way you have ammunition if buyer disputes/charges-back.

The buyer will file a item-not-as-described, and eBay will tell them to mail back the item. When the buyer mails back a package with a tracking number showing something was returned, regardless of whether they returned an empty box, a rock, or a piece of paper with a now-empty bitcoin address, the scam buyer gets their refund.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Xmufa23X on March 26, 2012, 05:34:12 AM
I got suspended for selling paperclips with free bitcoins 2 days ago, and yes i sent the damn clips with a tracking number. They want all kind of documents to re-enable my account (http://myworld.ebay.com/bogdan.seme). I had only positive votes with them but the fees are killing me so i think i will pass doing something about it. They will get to know bitcoin in the end.
Ahh, so are you the guy that stole my paperclip idea? I've never seen it done before, so I thought I'd give it a try with 5BTC+Paperclip. About a week later a couple of auctions using the same stainless steel paperclip, and even copy/pasted text, showed up. Hilarious that I get to meet the guy that stole me idea. :D


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: amexpay on March 26, 2012, 07:33:48 AM
Never EVER buy virtual currency on ebay!!


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Electricbees on March 26, 2012, 07:41:04 AM
One time, in the past, I tried to buy New Zealand on ebay... I was outbid very quickly...


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: paraipan on March 26, 2012, 09:48:49 AM
I got suspended for selling paperclips with free bitcoins 2 days ago, and yes i sent the damn clips with a tracking number. They want all kind of documents to re-enable my account (http://myworld.ebay.com/bogdan.seme). I had only positive votes with them but the fees are killing me so i think i will pass doing something about it. They will get to know bitcoin in the end.
Ahh, so are you the guy that stole my paperclip idea? I've never seen it done before, so I thought I'd give it a try with 5BTC+Paperclip. About a week later a couple of auctions using the same stainless steel paperclip, and even copy/pasted text, showed up. Hilarious that I get to meet the guy that stole me idea. :D

haha, the copyright is yours i just used it without change because they were perfect. Should start pouring paperclips or personal autographs on ebay with free bitcoins so they find out what the free market is. They trowed their TOS at me a few times without specifying clearly why the suspension, say it's a routine check.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Xmufa23X on March 26, 2012, 08:28:12 PM
I got suspended for selling paperclips with free bitcoins 2 days ago, and yes i sent the damn clips with a tracking number. They want all kind of documents to re-enable my account (http://myworld.ebay.com/bogdan.seme). I had only positive votes with them but the fees are killing me so i think i will pass doing something about it. They will get to know bitcoin in the end.
Ahh, so are you the guy that stole my paperclip idea? I've never seen it done before, so I thought I'd give it a try with 5BTC+Paperclip. About a week later a couple of auctions using the same stainless steel paperclip, and even copy/pasted text, showed up. Hilarious that I get to meet the guy that stole me idea. :D

haha, the copyright is yours i just used it without change because they were perfect. Should start pouring paperclips or personal autographs on ebay with free bitcoins so they find out what the free market is. They trowed their TOS at me a few times without specifying clearly why the suspension, say it's a routine check.
Yeah, I actually only did that one auction with the paperclip, then stopped because I ended up getting scammed on it. I called up Paypal, and they were actually pretty cool about it. I figured it was a hacked Paypal/Ebay account that bought the coins from me to begin with, and he confirmed that.

I had a pretty good chat with him for 20 minutes wondering when they would support Bitcoins, and other forms of electronics goods. I told him that at the rate goods are becoming "digitalized", that Ebay/Paypal will be at an extreme loss if they don't join in on the market. If they can't protect Sellers, then they will end up selling elsewhere instead of Ebay. He agreed with me, released the funds ($50), and even gave me tips on selling electronic goods and Bitcoins on Ebay. Totally not bullshitting.

Dunno why everyone hates Paypal so much. If you call them up with this mentality:
"Hurr Derr, Bitcoinz are soo cool and hipster! Paypal sucks balls and you guise should give me my monies back or I'll call teh cyber police on yo bitch asses!!!!"

Then yeah, what comes around goes around.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: ForceField on March 30, 2012, 04:35:12 PM
Paperclips are not nearly transparent enough.  Any human that reviews your auction/sale will immediately see you're trying to bypass the rules.

The blu-ray (or other small tangible item) is much better because it moves the bitcoin to the secondary ("gift") position.  You're selling the small tangible item (not something silly like a paperclip) and makes the btc free.  If the scammer wants to dispute the sale he/she has to dispute the physical item.

Exactly.

If you've decided to take the risk and sell on eBay, then you may be better off using an inexpensive physical container for the Bitcoins such as:
CD / Floppy Disk / SD Card / USB Drive.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Melt_Down on March 30, 2012, 05:58:34 PM
isn't the record in the bitchain prove of delivery?
ofcourse he should have told you his bitcoinadress by "ebay mail"


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: R- on March 31, 2012, 01:15:57 PM
PayPal is notorious for being easily duped when dealing with disputes.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: blablahblah on March 31, 2012, 03:36:12 PM
Isn't Paypal owned by Ebay, and Ebay owned/partly owned by the US Gov?

Bitcoin + (Ebay | Paypal) = playing with fire.

Individuals on the help lines might be very nice about Bitcoin burns, but I doubt that's the official policy.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: sd on March 31, 2012, 03:49:08 PM
Paypal is a scam.

Exactly this. Paypal isn't slightly dodgy, it's not just that some people got on the wrong side of them, it's a long con to extract cash from people.

They have locked and kept the funds of a very large number of legitimate people including charity funds.


If you deal with paypal they will rob you. It's just a matter of time.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: R- on March 31, 2012, 04:30:32 PM
Never EVER buy virtual currency on ebay!!
I think the moral of the story is ever SELL a virtual currency on eBay.

Robert


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 31, 2012, 05:49:51 PM
PayPal is not a scam.  You just have to play entirely by it's (sometimes extremely frustrating) rules.

Just like Bitcoin they have their protocol in place. The ones that don't follow the protocol get orphaned and rejected. Simple as that.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: paraipan on March 31, 2012, 10:07:47 PM
PayPal is not a scam.  You just have to play entirely by it's (sometimes extremely frustrating) rules.

Just like Bitcoin they have their protocol in place. The ones that don't follow the protocol get orphaned and rejected. Simple as that.

true, true, great words hmm, we should try a 51% on them ?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: blablahblah on March 31, 2012, 11:22:57 PM
good luck getting 51% of the copyrights and payment volume
none of them should be impossible but the price tag is ... challenging

Why buy when you can FORK?

I hereby present: PwnPal*
  • A commercial wrapper for Bitcoin.
  • Ridiculous fees.
  • Nominal customer service.
  • And one thing sure to put a smile on merchants' faces: no chargeback!

*If symptoms persist, please see your doctor.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: markus on April 01, 2012, 01:57:43 PM
Paypal is a scam.

Exactly this. Paypal isn't slightly dodgy, it's not just that some people got on the wrong side of them, it's a long con to extract cash from people.

They have locked and kept the funds of a very large number of legitimate people including charity funds.

If you deal with paypal they will rob you. It's just a matter of time.

+1

They'll lock your account just for receiving too much money...

I wonder if they make more money from fees or from keeping funds.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on April 01, 2012, 03:02:36 PM
Paypal is a scam.

Exactly this. Paypal isn't slightly dodgy, it's not just that some people got on the wrong side of them, it's a long con to extract cash from people.

They have locked and kept the funds of a very large number of legitimate people including charity funds.

If you deal with paypal they will rob you. It's just a matter of time.

+1

They'll lock your account just for receiving too much money...

I wonder if they make more money from fees or from keeping funds.

Your post just shows the utter ignorance most people have about Paypal.

They don't keep the money. At most they freeze it for 180 days, in case they close the account. After those 180 days they just send a check with the account balance to the address that the user registered with them.
If then user gave them a fake address and never get the check because of it is another matter.
If you're doing serious business why would you lie to them about your address in the first place?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Xmufa23X on April 02, 2012, 01:48:07 AM
ITT: Paypal is the devil! Hurr derr!




 ::)


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: cliffbtc on April 05, 2012, 02:23:15 AM
It's against paypal terms of service to trade bitcoin on there. Sad to say  you don't really have a case, I would just cut your loses and not use paypal/ebay in the future.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: R- on April 05, 2012, 09:58:50 AM
If then user gave them a fake address and never get the check because of it is another matter.
If you're doing serious business why would you lie to them about your address in the first place?

Exactly. Most of the people complaining about PayPal are under the age of 18. They clearly state in their TOS that you must be older than 18 years old. If you are using a fake address, there is probably a good reason for it (read: BAD REASON), and that is why PayPal will limit your account.



Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Coinoisseur on April 05, 2012, 10:06:10 PM
Not sure how Paypal manages to give the impression it is a secure banking system. They are not a bank, they don't fall under the kind of rules and regulations many people just assume must be in play with Paypal.

Don't have more in Paypal than you can deal with losing.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: 5850Guy on April 05, 2012, 11:04:13 PM
I sold $116 worth of BTC on eBay last month. After I sent the bitcoins, the buyer (in Hong Kong) initiated a chargeback, claiming that the charge was made without his consent. Another ebayer tried to warn me, but a little too late.

There's nothing I could do, and there's probably little you can do. PayPal will NOT side with you.

The only upside is that it was my first time being scammed after selling many many BTCs with a high premium on eBay. I won't keep selling them, though. Too much risk.

Sorry, dude. I sympathize with you.


That sucks.

I discovered bitmit.net earlier today, and although it wouldn't help you sell bitcoins, it was kind of a cool place.

They also had a escrow service, which is very useful.  I might sell some stuff there.

Sorry about your coins.  Another reason I need to remember to avoid paypal!


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: RandomQ on April 16, 2012, 04:17:41 AM
I know alot of sellers get around ebay/paypal by selling a coin or baseball card with free bitcoins included. You are only buying 1 penny or baseball card and getting free bitcoins in the process. Ship the Penny or baseball card with tracking and you can be as safe as you can selling stuff on ebay.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 16, 2012, 05:22:43 AM
I know alot of sellers get around ebay/paypal by selling a coin or baseball card with free bitcoins included. You are only buying 1 penny or baseball card and getting free bitcoins in the process. Ship the Penny or baseball card with tracking and you can be as safe as you can selling stuff on ebay.

or not.  It takes a dedicated scammer about 0.00002 sec to work around that "protection".


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: deus-ex-machina on April 16, 2012, 05:31:12 PM
Never use Paypal. They drew my account dry. My bank account. That I didn't give the info for. That I had my college savings in. Without me agreeing to the terms. Without me making an account.

If I find the person who owns the site, he's screwed. Literally. I heard jail does that to you.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Inaba on April 16, 2012, 05:58:46 PM
Quote
Never use Paypal. They drew my account dry. My bank account. That I didn't give the info for. That I had my college savings in. Without me agreeing to the terms. Without me making an account.

As much as I despise Paypal and think they are bunch of money grubbing, lying assholes, gonna have to call bullshit on this one.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Raoul Duke on April 16, 2012, 06:01:21 PM
Quote
Never use Paypal. They drew my account dry. My bank account. That I didn't give the info for. That I had my college savings in. Without me agreeing to the terms. Without me making an account.

As much as I despise Paypal and think they are bunch of money grubbing, lying assholes, gonna have to call bullshit on this one.


And 2.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 16, 2012, 06:41:36 PM
Quote
Never use Paypal. They drew my account dry. My bank account. That I didn't give the info for. That I had my college savings in. Without me agreeing to the terms. Without me making an account.

As much as I despise Paypal and think they are bunch of money grubbing, lying assholes, gonna have to call bullshit on this one.


Yeah this troll account is "weird".  Previously he made this claim:

My wallet literally sent you its contents by itself and games started rapidly playing until my wallet on the site emptied. Anny chance of looking into what happened there? It looks like my wallet was stolen and sent to you, but I don't see what possible benefit that could have for whomever did it. That was kind of my paycheck for this month that I just got today. I have to wait another month to get groceries unless this gets solved.

Yes he is claiming that after depositing 0.01 BTC to the site somehow the site later pulled all the funds from his Bitcoin wallet and lost it. :)


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: highlevelminer on April 16, 2012, 07:26:16 PM
You have to be very careful when dealing with the trade of bitcoins for cash.

I would avoid this process as much as possible because there are a lot of shady people out there looking to steal everything and anything they can.

Just find some online services in which you can spread your wealth and everything should go a little smoother.

Once again i am sorry to hear that.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: deus-ex-machina on April 16, 2012, 07:34:34 PM
Two separate instances. The Paypal one was a few years ago, back when I was still in high school. The mining game was a couple days ago. I gave up on the mine incident, since I had a good job to cover my losses. Even got a few Bitcoins with some of the pay and played the game again with a different wallet. Lost them all, but I'm fine with it because I lost fair and square. Maybe I'll head back soon.

The Paypal one though was too much to cover.

Funny how a person who isn't completely happy with everything is automatically trolling. I'm not here to cause trouble. I generally try to avoid that kind of thing.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: doogthyme on April 17, 2012, 02:24:17 AM
so glad i read this before i made the purchase tonight


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: zer0 on April 17, 2012, 02:29:16 AM
When I worked @ ebay you could buy advertisements that aren't listings, so can still advertise your bitcoins for sale that come up in searches just it would happen offsite through a more trusted payment method.  I think they still offer ads.

You can also link paypal accounts to an ATM card that comes with virtual bank account, then drain the funds and get cash in hand before transfering any coins. If paypal freezes the account get a new VBA.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: benjamindees on April 18, 2012, 11:01:59 AM
When I worked @ ebay you could buy advertisements that aren't listings, so can still advertise your bitcoins for sale that come up in searches just it would happen offsite through a more trusted payment method.  I think they still offer ads.

Wow I guess that's true.  I was wondering this a few weeks ago but since I didn't see any ads on the site I figured they didn't do advertising.

Now that I click around, they do seem to offer targeted advertising (http://www.ebayadvertising.com/en-us/case-study/cetelem/44/).  I wonder whether they would accept a Bitmit ad?  ;D

It would be funny for someone to inquire about advertising Bitcoin and Bitmit, but only to target E-Bay sellers that have been back-charged by Paypal.  ;D  Or maybe the ones that don't use it at all.  Be sure to record it if you do, since the antitrust authorities may be interested and it would be hilarious regardless.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: bitvirtiser on April 18, 2012, 02:06:12 PM
Ebay doesn't vouch for any currency exchange listing
since bitcoin is a currency,its normal to favour the buyer in dispute due to sellers non-concern of TOS


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: bitcoinsydney on April 25, 2012, 12:26:54 PM
You should not sell BTC via paypal in the first place.

Paypal does not allow any swap or exchange of other e-currency in its platform. They are very sensitive about it.

I recommend you to write this off, the odds are stack against you.

I disagree. I've posted this in another thread, but this is relevant: I sell BTC on paypal and ask that the buyer select "personal" and "gift". The buyer cannot chargeback then. Obviously the risk is on the buyer, and this reduces my sales somewhat, but I am focusing on local sales in my home town to establish trust.

I've conducted about 40-50 transactions and haven't had a problem with paypal yet, though i'm not saying it won't happen at some point.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: deepceleron on April 25, 2012, 03:08:00 PM
You should not sell BTC via paypal in the first place.

Paypal does not allow any swap or exchange of other e-currency in its platform. They are very sensitive about it.

I recommend you to write this off, the odds are stack against you.

I disagree. I've posted this in another thread, but this is relevant: I sell BTC on paypal and ask that the buyer select "personal" and "gift". The buyer cannot chargeback then. Obviously the risk is on the buyer, and this reduces my sales somewhat, but I am focusing on local sales in my home town to establish trust.

I've conducted about 40-50 transactions and haven't had a problem with paypal yet, though i'm not saying it won't happen at some point.

A buyer can still pay for the item via PayPal with a credit card payment, and then dispute the credit card payment with the bank. PayPal will yank the money right back out of your PayPal account. This can happen months later, as you can see here: http://blog.unibulmerchantservices.com/visa-chargeback-reason-codes-and-time-limits/.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: bitcoinsydney on April 26, 2012, 09:11:19 AM
You should not sell BTC via paypal in the first place.

Paypal does not allow any swap or exchange of other e-currency in its platform. They are very sensitive about it.

I recommend you to write this off, the odds are stack against you.

I disagree. I've posted this in another thread, but this is relevant: I sell BTC on paypal and ask that the buyer select "personal" and "gift". The buyer cannot chargeback then. Obviously the risk is on the buyer, and this reduces my sales somewhat, but I am focusing on local sales in my home town to establish trust.

I've conducted about 40-50 transactions and haven't had a problem with paypal yet, though i'm not saying it won't happen at some point.

A buyer can still pay for the item via PayPal with a credit card payment, and then dispute the credit card payment with the bank. PayPal will yank the money right back out of your PayPal account. This can happen months later, as you can see here: http://blog.unibulmerchantservices.com/visa-chargeback-reason-codes-and-time-limits/.

Not if my paypal isn't linked to my bank account, so no direct debit options, and there are no funds in my account because I withdraw all funds as soon as they hit paypal. I wonder what would happen then?

edit: also, there are no credit cards attached to my paypal for them to charge either.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: cheapster on April 26, 2012, 09:20:10 AM
As much as I dislike paypal it did used to be a reliable way for me to acquire coins a while back.  I avoid it today though, of course.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Justin00 on April 26, 2012, 10:31:58 AM
I can confirm 100% if you have no funds paypal will send debt collector after you.
Some random lawyer/collector sent me a letter to collect my ~$4 I owed.... And that was after not paying for only like a month....

Im in AUS aswell.

Not if my paypal isn't linked to my bank account, so no direct debit options, and there are no funds in my account because I withdraw all funds as soon as they hit paypal. I wonder what would happen then?

edit: also, there are no credit cards attached to my paypal for them to charge either.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: bitcoinsydney on April 26, 2012, 12:20:33 PM
I can confirm 100% if you have no funds paypal will send debt collector after you.
Some random lawyer/collector sent me a letter to collect my ~$4 I owed.... And that was after not paying for only like a month....

Im in AUS aswell.

Not if my paypal isn't linked to my bank account, so no direct debit options, and there are no funds in my account because I withdraw all funds as soon as they hit paypal. I wonder what would happen then?

edit: also, there are no credit cards attached to my paypal for them to charge either.

That would be interesting to take to court. In fact, i'm almost curious enough to have a friend try a chargeback to test how their system works.

I don't suppose you've still got a copy of the letter?


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Justin00 on April 26, 2012, 01:04:08 PM
nah was a few years ago.

Im no lawyer or anything but why would it be interesting ?



Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: bitcoinsydney on April 26, 2012, 01:15:56 PM
nah was a few years ago.

Im no lawyer or anything but why would it be interesting ?



I suppose because i've never seen paypal going to court over that amount of money. I'm curious as to what their process would be, and how they would react if challenged to take me to court, i think I will test this out, can't cost me anything if I get a friend to do a chargeback.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: FLHippy on August 21, 2012, 12:20:49 AM
Don't need to cry about ebay and paypal .Seller must ask for 100+feedbacks ,1 year or more on ebay , and check all previews feedbacks of the buyer . I have zero problems so far

Problems still exist with this scheme.

Buyers (even real ones) don't read the item description and you end up with people who do not meet your requirements. eBay's automatic buyer restrictions do not allow you to limit based on feedback score or membership duration.

For these buyers I offer to allow them to initiate a cancel item request or receive their bitcoin purchase on a CD. As long as you ship their item to you, you *might* be covered by PayPal's seller protection. If they initiate the cancel item request, you get your final fee value back but not the item listing fee.

I send them a bitcoin address and a private key. I even spiffy it up with a vanity bitcoin address.

I sell bitcoins on eBay in constant in fear of chargebacks. it's the nature of the game. It's not evil as some people suggest. Many of you were quite hard on the original poster. While I feel your separatist morality when it comes to money... the fact remains that we all have to eat... and own kick ass computers. Don't judge lest you be judged.

Love
FLHippy


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: JoelKatz on August 21, 2012, 12:30:45 AM
Quote
Never use Paypal. They drew my account dry. My bank account. That I didn't give the info for. That I had my college savings in. Without me agreeing to the terms. Without me making an account.

As much as I despise Paypal and think they are bunch of money grubbing, lying assholes, gonna have to call bullshit on this one.

I have a lifetime ban because someone stole my identity six years ago and created a PayPal account. They didn't even rip PayPal off. (PP-001-530-046-635)

I've tried to work this out with PayPal about a dozen times over the past four years. The way PayPal has dealt with this incident has been brutally dishonest. For example, I filed a BBB complaint. PayPal gave absolutely no information in any of their responses until the very last one, the one that I don't get to respond to, in which they made all kinds of new, nonsensical accusations. Needless to say, without me having any opportunity to respond to these, the BBB found PayPal's actions reasonable.

Lack of access to PayPal has meant no access to eBay. For a variety of reasons, this has been incredibly inconvenient for me personally.

I even escalated to the California government agency that monitors their compliance with regulations associated with their money transfer license. They promised to look into my complaint and contact PayPal about it. They responded to me that they "received a satisfactory response from PayPal" and wouldn't answer me further. Draw your own conclusions.

The most detail I've ever gotten from PayPal is this: "We have detected that these accounts were used to purchase from a website in violation of our Acceptable Use Policy. The severity of the violation is such that any linked accounts will be closed."

In my mind at least, PayPal is pure evil.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: SSSSwinner on August 21, 2012, 04:05:49 AM
i see that paypal is bad from other mistakes. wise man learns from other mistakes :)


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Tristyan@BitInnovate.com on August 21, 2012, 04:58:16 AM
i was foolish and too trusting.  now that paypal has sided with the buyer, i think it would be prudent to post the full disclosure (names, phone numbers, addresses,  details) regarding this case.   is this the proper place for that?


micko1911, Never disclose someone's personal information. I am not sure where you are located, but in Australia this can carry up to a $250,000 fine for individuals. Most country's around the world have very high penalties for doing so.

The only way to sell bitcoins safely is to use a method of payment that does not allow chargebacks. This is why most eBay sellers sell only a small amount of coins at a time and charge an extremely high premium to accept PayPal.





Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Mike30 on October 08, 2012, 03:13:10 PM
I also got scammed. It is just ridiculous how paypal/ebay are handling business.

Read this also "How to Cheat eBay Sellers and Scam PayPal" story: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18417&Itemid=8

After reading all these stuff. I got very frustrated for not reading these before.

Making private information public, is not a good way to go. BUT their usernames is PUBLIC. So, I have made a database to exposure and check their usernames with a link to their profile on Ebay.

Any one wanting to check or exposure their username and support this database, please post them at http://3lay.com 


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: SaintDevil on October 17, 2012, 06:50:56 PM
I got fooled on eBay before, but it doesn't happen just with PayPal.
I worked in retail for the last couple years and understand why companies do that.
All they care about is customer service, overly satisfied customers so they will do anything to keep customers happy, and they will come back and shop more/ use their services more. 

For example, in stores customers would buy lots of items when they are on sale (let's say 40%), then they will return it without the receipt at original price and get a gift card for the amount they spent + 40% extra. Then sell it on eBay, = profit..
It's like getting free credits to shop, less hurtful bit still...


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: Aahzman on October 17, 2012, 07:09:24 PM
how'd the buyer get paypal to reverse the charge for a non-tangible product? they told me i was shit outta luck when i got scammed outta $34 the other day...


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: SaintDevil on October 17, 2012, 07:13:34 PM
how'd the buyer get paypal to reverse the charge for a non-tangible product? they told me i was shit outta luck when i got scammed outta $34 the other day...


They say their accounts got compromised and I believe it's a different story from just getting scammed by fake companies, or if you paid with a credit card through PayPal..


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: ChillZon3 on October 17, 2012, 08:04:45 PM
.


Title: Re: scammed when selling bitcoins on ebay
Post by: madripples on August 14, 2013, 10:21:59 PM
Ebay Paypal invite fraud by not securing paypal with double authentication.

Do a quick search on ebay and you will see Bitcoins selling for high markups some up 100% or more. Then ask yourself why is this happening? Because the scammers will pay more for an item they know they will reverse.  Why would they be able to reverse the transaction you ask ? Because the criminals know Paypal does not have double authentication like Authy, Google Authenticator, or Yubico, set up. Thus whoever is in charge of the money at Paypal/Ebay is being negligent because they could fix their problems that simply.