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Other => Off-topic => Topic started by: DeathAndTaxes on March 08, 2012, 03:15:11 AM



Title: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 08, 2012, 03:15:11 AM
I need the specs on BFL power adapter.

Updated w/ specs as I know them.
Polarity: Center 12V
Inner diameter of barrel connector: 2.5mm
Outer diameter of barrel connector: 5.5mm
Barrel length: 12mm
Max DC amperage:  10A @ 12V (PSU is rated for 120W.  BFL care to comment on actual max DC load of a BFL Single)

Has BFL provided any specs?  
Anyone look on their Power Supply some or all of that might be listed?
Any photos of the PSU available?

On edit:
link to BFL post on physical specs:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65752.msg773989#msg773989


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: nedbert9 on March 08, 2012, 03:33:27 AM
I need the specs on BFL power adapter.

Polarity: ??
Inner diameter of barrel connector: ??
Outer diameter of barrel connector: ??
Max DC amperage:  10A @ 12V (verified)

Has BFL provided any specs?  
Anyone look on their Power Supply some or all of that might be listed?
Any photos of the PSU available?


Hi, DandT.  Saw the dialog between you and Giga.

Model:
ST-C-120-12001000CT
Web:
http://aim-eco.com/?pid=33271186


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 08, 2012, 03:44:33 AM
Thanks.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Fiyasko on March 08, 2012, 05:26:58 AM
 ;D I smell homebuilt BFL PSU's to be constructed.
I bet it's going to be really annoying in a cluster if you have so many little external power bricks..
It'd be cool to see a "BFL Cluster Powerbrick" with like.. 5-10 12v lines coming out of it, Could prolly save alot of money, And on shipping alone too


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: bulanula on March 09, 2012, 07:11:33 PM
;D I smell homebuilt BFL PSU's to be constructed.
I bet it's going to be really annoying in a cluster if you have so many little external power bricks..
It'd be cool to see a "BFL Cluster Powerbrick" with like.. 5-10 12v lines coming out of it, Could prolly save alot of money, And on shipping alone too

Yes but I don't think they will accept you to buy it without the PSU they are selling you ;)

Not selling you their PSU and not charging so much for shipping = less profit for them = unacceptable for BFL :D


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: PulsedMedia on March 10, 2012, 03:54:23 AM
;D I smell homebuilt BFL PSU's to be constructed.
I bet it's going to be really annoying in a cluster if you have so many little external power bricks..
It'd be cool to see a "BFL Cluster Powerbrick" with like.. 5-10 12v lines coming out of it, Could prolly save alot of money, And on shipping alone too

I smell a business opportunity for them here, supplying very high efficiency PSUs with modular cabling for clusters ;D


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: fred0 on March 10, 2012, 04:08:20 AM
Photo of power brick in first post of giga.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65752.0

Also, these should be all the parts needed to build an adapter for ATX to BFL Single coax connection:

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=200E1AF79F

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=CP3-002BH-ND

I just compiled these from the other post, I haven't ordered the parts, hoping someone more competent would want to do this.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 10, 2012, 04:27:42 AM
Photo of power brick in first post of giga.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65752.0

Also, these should be all the parts needed to build an adapter for ATX to BFL Single coax connection:

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=200E1AF79F

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=CP3-002BH-ND

I just compiled these from the other post, I haven't ordered the parts, hoping someone more competent would want to do this.
Wonder if someone could contact Cablesaurus and ask him to make these? I might do it if I had the special Molex pin crimper, but the tool costs like $350 - just to crimp a few pins! Of course they could be crimped manually, but they would be much more time consuming and difficult to create.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: dave3 on March 10, 2012, 04:33:51 AM
I'm thinking about getting a Seasonic X1250 PSU, and just cutting off the ends of the PCI-E cables and the cables from the power bricks and splicing them together.  That would work, wouldn't it?

Some sort of pre-made adapter/cable would be great, though.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jamesg on March 11, 2012, 12:24:05 AM
I was thinking of this PSU to run 11 singles -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814019

I really like the price at $170.

Single 12v rail
Active PFC
1100w
6x 6+2 PCIe connectors

11 singles at 83w each would be around 913w total.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 11, 2012, 12:31:41 AM
Should be fine as long as it can deliver the required amps on 12V rail.  Can't seem to find a spec sheet which shows 12V amp/watt rating.  It is a single rail design which is good as long just a question of enough 12V amps.

Closest thing I have seen in this photo of rating plate:
http://www.abs.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ViewPage=2&ID=21

I can't make out the 12V wattage though.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 11, 2012, 12:40:54 AM
I was thinking of this PSU to run 11 singles -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814019

I really like the price at $170.

Single 12v rail
Active PFC
1100w
6x 6+2 PCIe connectors

11 singles at 83w each would be around 913w total.

Thoughts?
Hmm, its cheap, but I see more than one DOA report on the first page of reviews (and 4 out of 5 eggs). Also, 83 watts includes current PSU inefficiencies, I bet it would be 75 watts or lower on the DC side. If I were you, I would protect my investment with a seasonic: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151110

Also, with that parts list I posted earlier, you could probably actually run 3x singles per 6-pin connector - 1 per set of positive + negative wires.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 11, 2012, 12:54:45 AM
I contacted a custom cable OEM on making PCIe to barrel adapters.  The only issue will be minimum order size.  My previous employer has use this OEM before so hopefully they will be willing to keep unit size down to 100 or so.  I got no intention buying 10,000 adapters. :)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 11, 2012, 12:55:34 AM
I contacted a custom cable OEM on making PCIe to barrel adapters.  The only issue will be minimum order size.  My previous employer has use this OEM before so hopefully they will be willing to keep unit size down to 100 or so.  I got no intention buying 10,000 adapters. :)
Gonna put cablesaurus out of business ;D


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 11, 2012, 02:13:26 AM
I will be interested in 30+ if the price is reasonable.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: P_Shep on March 11, 2012, 03:02:47 AM
Should be fine as long as it can deliver the required amps on 12V rail.  Can't seem to find a spec sheet which shows 12V amp/watt rating.  It is a single rail design which is good as long just a question of enough 12V amps.

Closest thing I have seen in this photo of rating plate:
http://www.abs.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ViewPage=2&ID=21

I can't make out the 12V wattage though.

Says 84A@12v (1008W), so JUST!


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: allinvain on March 11, 2012, 03:13:11 AM
I contacted a custom cable OEM on making PCIe to barrel adapters.  The only issue will be minimum order size.  My previous employer has use this OEM before so hopefully they will be willing to keep unit size down to 100 or so.  I got no intention buying 10,000 adapters. :)

Hopefully it pans out cause I for sure would buy 10+ minimum.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: fred0 on March 11, 2012, 03:40:13 AM
Would each adapter be designed for one, two or three singles?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jjiimm_64 on March 11, 2012, 04:24:03 AM
I contacted a custom cable OEM on making PCIe to barrel adapters.  The only issue will be minimum order size.  My previous employer has use this OEM before so hopefully they will be willing to keep unit size down to 100 or so.  I got no intention buying 10,000 adapters. :)

I would be interested in a few too.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: dave3 on March 11, 2012, 05:13:46 AM
Would each adapter be designed for one, two or three singles?

I'd be interested in some, too.  Two mini-plugs per PCI-E adapter would be nice.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BlackPrapor on March 11, 2012, 05:56:09 AM
I was thinking of this PSU to run 11 singles -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814019

I really like the price at $170.

Single 12v rail
Active PFC
1100w
6x 6+2 PCIe connectors

11 singles at 83w each would be around 913w total.

Thoughts?

Damn, I wish I could have that kind of prices on this side of our planet  ::)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 11, 2012, 11:33:34 AM
Would each adapter be designed for one, two or three singles?
Theoretically you could have one single per pair of +12v wires, so 3 per 6-pin connector and 4 on the EPS12V connector. Although I didn't look up the part numbers to fit the EPS12V connector.

Icarus uses the same connector as BFL, so they would be able to coexist on the same PSU. Same with any device that uses a 2.5x5.5mm DC barrel plug and draws 75 watts or less.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: fred0 on March 11, 2012, 12:29:05 PM
Would each adapter be designed for one, two or three singles?
Theoretically you could have one single per pair of +12v wires, so 3 per 6-pin connector and 4 on the EPS12V connector. Although I didn't look up the part numbers to fit the EPS12V connector.

Icarus uses the same connector as BFL, so they would be able to coexist on the same PSU. Same with any device that uses a 2.5x5.5mm DC barrel plug and draws 75 watts or less.
Thanks, and the rule of thumb for maximum efficiency for PS load would be about 50%? Or is there a much broader range, say 30-70% or 35-65% or something else? I see that some people want to load each PS closer to its rated capacity, that doesn't sound good(optimal).


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: dave3 on March 11, 2012, 12:35:03 PM
Damn, I wish I could have that kind of prices on this side of our planet  ::)

It's funny how stuff made in Asia is often cheaper in the U.S. than it is in Asia.  It's cheaper to buy it in the U.S. and have it shipped back here (Asia -> U.S. -> Asia).


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: dave3 on March 11, 2012, 12:40:07 PM
Thanks, and the rule of thumb for maximum efficiency for PS load would be about 50%? Or is there a much broader range, say 30-70% or 35-65% or something else? I see that some people want to load each PS up to it rated capacity, that doesn't sound good.

I'm not a power supply expert, but I've heard 50-60% (or lower) is ideal, but up to 80% is still ok.

I'm starting with 2, but I might eventually get up to 10.  I'm thinking a 1250 watt PSU should be fine for 10 (64% load), and would probably even be ok for 12 (77%).


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jake262144 on March 11, 2012, 12:42:26 PM
I was thinking of this PSU to run 11 singles -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814019

I really like the price at $170.

Single 12v rail
Active PFC
1100w
6x 6+2 PCIe connectors

11 singles at 83w each would be around 913w total.

Thoughts?
The manufacturer promises 83 amps (http://www.abs.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ViewPage=1&ID=21) - that's 996 watts at the +12V output.
As DAT rightly noticed, this is a single rail unit so no additional rail topology issues for you to overcome.

HARDOCP (http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/01/22/abs_majesty_mj1100m_1100w_power_supply_review/4) were able to squeeze 100% load out of the unit at 84.9% efficiency (120V AC voltage) but while doing so they measured ripple in excess of 130mV at the 12V output. Temperature delta at exhaust was 20°C.
When using 100V AC input voltage, the ripple rose to an ungainly 390mV - over three times more than that ATX spec allows (120mV max) and six times worse than the Superflower Golden-Green-based Rosewill Lightning 1300W (available for $250 from NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182063&Tpk=Rosewill%20Lightning%201300W)).

The design was clearly beyond its comfort zone when delivering 100% of the advertised load.
Your total load, however, should never exceed 990W (11 singles at 90W). Typically it would be closer to 910W.

You should be able to get away with that PSU but I'm not entirely comfortable recommending it as it's an ATNG-made device - this particular OEM doesn't exactly have a history of stellar-quality builds.
It's a bit of a wild card and it's very hard for me to estimate the longevity under 910W+ load 24/7.
Personally, I'd go with a stronger design - although the price is tempting remember that the FPGAs are very expensive and the $100 saved on the PSU doesn't justify the risk of destroying your singles in a catastrophic PSU failure.


DAT, is this (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTI2MjIyMDU3MXdjQkNiMVduaGJfM180X2wuanBn) the picture you were looking for? I'm glad to be of help.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 11, 2012, 01:01:55 PM
Thanks, and the rule of thumb for maximum efficiency for PS load would be about 50%? Or is there a much broader range, say 30-70% or 35-65% or something else? I see that some people want to load each PS up to it rated capacity, that doesn't sound good.

I'm not a power supply expert, but I've heard 50-60% (or lower) is ideal, but up to 80% is still ok.

I'm starting with 2, but I might eventually get up to 10.  I'm thinking a 1250 watt PSU should be fine for 10 (64% load), and would probably even be ok for 12 (77%).
While 50% provides the best efficiency, the difference in efficiency between 50% and 80% is minimal on a Gold rated PSU - perhaps 1-2% difference. I wouldn't want to load a PSU more than 80% if you are running continuously, with the exception being if you got some efficient server power supplies that are relatively recent - since they are much more durable than most consumer stuff.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BTC-engineer on March 11, 2012, 01:59:39 PM
Maybe I missed the information somewhere.

Does someone already measured the correct power-consumption of the BFL single ONLY (without the included power-supply)?
Or does even BFL did a statement about this?

All I've read is that the include power-supply is getting quite warm/hot, which is at a total power-consumption (BFL single + power supply) of ~80Watt a clear sign that the included power supply has massive power loos because of a very bad efficiency of the power supply. I also read BFL's advice to better use a higher efficiency power supply to support more BFL singles in a cluster.

Maybe the BFL single for itself has only ~55W ?
Maybe there is also a little difference between the different revisions?

If the power efficiency of the power supply is really so bad, it would maybe make sense if BFL offers an option to exclude the power supply. Beside of a small discount it should make the shipping especially to NON-US destination cheaper. Or they should include a professional adapter cable to use the BFL single with a ATX power supply.

Couldn't do the measurement for myself already, but I will do it if I will receive my 2 units (rev 2)  (they should be shipped end of next week). 


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jake262144 on March 11, 2012, 02:28:53 PM
I believe Gigavps knew what he was talking about when he specified 83W per device.

The power draw of the FPGA can be easily measured using a clamp meter or by feeding it from a well-known PSU you have the efficiency charts for and looking at the kill-a-watt readings.

Running the FPGAs with an ATX PSU has another benefit: the ATX spec mandates very tight voltage regulation - probably much tighter than any wall wart is capable of.
The cleaner the power, the less load is being put on the onboard voltage regulators.

PS. When BFL issued a statement regarding the power usage they were promising 19,3 watts IIRC ;)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 11, 2012, 02:58:16 PM
No one has measured actual power consumption as far as I know.  It would involve tearing apart the current power cable, and no one has been willing to do that yet.  I might see what I can get taken care of as far as that goes, I think I have a spare around somewhere. But my unit is downtown and I'm at home, so it'll have to wait until next week.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 11, 2012, 03:01:26 PM
Before we get ahead of ourselves.

I asked the OEM to price out 1 PCIe 6pin to 3x barrel connector.  Some have asked for 3x adapter, some for 1x or 2x.  Given need for a large unit size I figured a single design would be best.

It is entirely possible the OEM will come back with some insane unit requirement (like 10,000).  I don't want to get anyone's hopes up.  I talked to superviser in person, explained the situation and the need for a small run.  He said he would like me know by Tues.  I will let everyone know when I know.

No need for anyone else to put in requests.  Once I find out min order and unit pricing if it is viable I will start another thread to gauge interest.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 11, 2012, 03:06:58 PM
You might be able to convince BFL to buy a quantity of them as well, if the minimum order is like 1000 or 2000 or something.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 11, 2012, 03:07:12 PM
No one has measured actual power consumption as far as I know.  It would involve tearing apart the current power cable, and no one has been willing to do that yet.  I might see what I can get taken care of as far as that goes, I think I have a spare around somewhere. But my unit is downtown and I'm at home, so it'll have to wait until next week.

This would actually be incredibly useful.  Any decent ($60+) clamp meter should be able to accurately measure DC current.

One would simply need to cut the cable right down the middle.  We are talking about the cable between the PSU brick and the barrel connector.  With clamp meter no need to cut the insulation you just need to separate the 12V and DC wires.  You just need to separate the two wires otherwise they current in opposite directions cancels out the meter (it will read 0 amps which is correct).  Put only the 12V wire in the clamp and measure current under load.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 11, 2012, 03:08:44 PM
I will see what I can do on Mon or Tues.  I think I have a spare adapter on my desk at work.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 11, 2012, 03:15:05 PM
Thanks, and the rule of thumb for maximum efficiency for PS load would be about 50%? Or is there a much broader range, say 30-70% or 35-65% or something else? I see that some people want to load each PS closer to its rated capacity, that doesn't sound good(optimal).

The 50% rule is now more the 50% myth.  At one time PSU had a very "steep" efficiency curve.  It might be 70% (or worse) efficient at 20% and 80% but 85% efficient at 50%.  This allowed the PSU supplier to cheaply sell an "85% efficient" unit but only in a very narrow band.  Worse many didn't provide efficiency curves.  The "buy a PSU to load it at 50%" was a guestimate to get best efficiency.

"80Plus" and hardware review websites changed all that.  80Plus cert requires 80% efficiency at 20%, 50%, 80% 100% of peak load.  The higher ones (like Gold) require even more.  Hardware review websites now stress test most major brands and efficiency curves are available on 80Plus website for all certified power supplies.  So the curves are now much flatter.

Today I have no fears running a high quality unit (like Seasonic) at 100% load 24/7 and even with cheaper units I would be comfortable loading them to 80% 24/7.  If a unit can't handle that it is junk and you likely shouldn't be buying it anyways (poor efficiency, poor regulation, etc).  Spend $20 more and get a higher quality unit.

TL/DR:  The 50% rule hasn't applied for almost a decade now.  It is more an urban legend now.  The difference between 100% load and 50% load is often less than 2% efficiency.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: fred0 on March 11, 2012, 05:17:54 PM
Thanks, that is very helpful.  It makes planning for efficiency a much simpler task, certainly less troublesome.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jddebug on March 11, 2012, 09:40:25 PM
No one has measured actual power consumption as far as I know.  It would involve tearing apart the current power cable, and no one has been willing to do that yet.  I might see what I can get taken care of as far as that goes, I think I have a spare around somewhere. But my unit is downtown and I'm at home, so it'll have to wait until next week.

This would actually be incredibly useful.  Any decent ($60+) clamp meter should be able to accurately measure DC current.

One would simply need to cut the cable right down the middle.  We are talking about the cable between the PSU brick and the barrel connector.  With clamp meter no need to cut the insulation you just need to separate the 12V and DC wires.  You just need to separate the two wires otherwise they current in opposite directions cancels out the meter (it will read 0 amps which is correct).  Put only the 12V wire in the clamp and measure current under load.

Correct me if I'm wrong but a clamp meter only works with AC current. DC must be measured in line.

This information is something I want also. I have 3 singles set up now and have 7 more arriving over the next week. The 3 power bricks are rather hot and I have them sitting on my window sill to help cool them. (Temperature outside is 18F so it helps but they are still somewhat hot. I have my window open a bit to keep the singles as cool as possible. They work fine even when I closed the window and temp in the room went to 80F but why push it if I don't have to.

With 10 singles and 4 more on order I want as efficient a setup as possible. I've emailed Sonny asking what the singles themselves consume but so far no reply. I have the meters to measure the current in line. I just need to bring myself to cut the cable. I can easily splice it back together. I've been hoping Sonny would get me the info so I wouldn't have to though.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 11, 2012, 09:55:25 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but a clamp meter only works with AC current. DC must be measured in line.

Corrected.  :)

The "hall effect" (what a clamp meter uses) can measure both AC & DC current.  You need a clamp meter designed to measure both.   Not all clamp meters are AC & DC.  The cheaper ones are AC only. 

Using a DC clamp meter you can avoid needing to splice the cable.  You simply need to separate the conductors so you can clamp ONE only.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 12, 2012, 02:09:21 AM
If you desperately didn't want to damage the power brick, you might also be able to go to RadioShack and get the parts to build an extender, then clamp that.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 02:10:35 AM
I got my clamp meter in my bag for work tomorrow, so I'll see what's what tomorrow morning or early afternoon.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jddebug on March 12, 2012, 05:54:19 AM
I got my clamp meter in my bag for work tomorrow, so I'll see what's what tomorrow morning or early afternoon.

Thank you.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 02:06:15 PM
Ok, got the numbers:

1.7A @ Idle
5.9A @ At 100% mining

So we're looking at around 70w of actual usage on a quality PSU instead of a power brick.  Not terrible.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 12, 2012, 02:06:38 PM
Ok, got the numbers:

1.7A @ Idle
5.9A @ At 100% mining

So we're looking at around 70w of actual usage on a quality PSU instead of a power brick.  Not terrible.

Sweeeeeet.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 12, 2012, 02:17:22 PM
Ok, got the numbers:

1.7A @ Idle
5.9A @ At 100% mining

So we're looking at around 70w of actual usage on a quality PSU instead of a power brick.  Not terrible.


Awesome which is what I guessed it would be (cheapo PSU being ~75% to 80%).  3x barrel connectors on 1 PCIe connector should be no issue then.  Hopefully I get an answer back today.  I am hoping they will do a small run as a favor as the last time I worked with them was for 2,000 custom SAS wiring (building out a custom SAN solution).


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BTC-engineer on March 12, 2012, 05:41:08 PM
Ok, got the numbers:

1.7A @ Idle
5.9A @ At 100% mining

So we're looking at around 70w of actual usage on a quality PSU instead of a power brick.  Not terrible.


Thanks for measurement.
What was your environment temperature?
Did you also measured the voltage in both states and if, was it exactly +12V ?

This means the BFL single only takes ~70.8W when mining.
With a high efficiency Power Supply (let say one with 93%) this are still ~75.8Watt per BFL singleThanks for measurement...
Would also be interesting to see how much the power consumption decreases by improving the airflow.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 05:53:11 PM
Temp is right around 72F.  I did not take voltage measurements as it would require me to cut the wire and put the multimeter in line.  If that's really important, then I can do it, but I can't see how it's terribly relevant for our purposes, yeah?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 12, 2012, 05:56:25 PM
Temp is right around 72F.  I did not take voltage measurements as it would require me to cut the wire and put the multimeter in line.  If that's really important, then I can do it, but I can't see how it's terribly relevant for our purposes, yeah?

Watts is what matters but I am sure the PSU is running at 12V +/-5% so it really is just double checking.  If the PSU was running hot (>12VDC) then the amps would be lower for the same amount of wattage.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BTC-engineer on March 12, 2012, 06:11:33 PM
Temp is right around 72F.  I did not take voltage measurements as it would require me to cut the wire and put the multimeter in line.  If that's really important, then I can do it, but I can't see how it's terribly relevant for our purposes, yeah?

Watts is what matters but I am sure the PSU is running at 12V +/-5% so it really is just double checking.  If the PSU was running hot (>12VDC) then the amps would be lower for the same amount of wattage.

I don't know this specific low-cost power supply. But I wouldn't be too surprised if the voltage would be out of the +/-5% window.

Interesting that the external power-supply is getting so hot, that you nearly can't touch it anymore, if it "only" has ~10Watt power-loss. Hmm...


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 12, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Temp is right around 72F.  I did not take voltage measurements as it would require me to cut the wire and put the multimeter in line.  If that's really important, then I can do it, but I can't see how it's terribly relevant for our purposes, yeah?

Watts is what matters but I am sure the PSU is running at 12V +/-5% so it really is just double checking.  If the PSU was running hot (>12VDC) then the amps would be lower for the same amount of wattage.

I don't know this specific low-cost power supply. But I wouldn't be too surprised if the voltage would be out of the +/-5% window.

Interesting that the external power-supply is getting so hot, that you nearly can't touch it anymore, if it "only" has ~10Watt power-loss. Hmm...

I put the PSU in front of a very small low velocity fan and it became a lot cooler. Probably just because the plastic does not dissipate the heat very well.

BFL stated the voltage specs for the single, I believe the maximum was as high as 14 volts but better double check for the post around here somewhere.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 06:57:49 PM
I went ahead and cut the insulation.  12.1v at full load (12.22v at idle).

I also measured ambient - it's around 80F not 72F, if we can believe my IR thermometer.



Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 12, 2012, 08:53:28 PM
Tentative good news.  OEM is considering the order a small run.  Not sure if it is past business or that the economy is slow.  In the past I know the have balked at runs below thousand units.  No idea on pricing yet, no need to respond saying you want one, and don't get your hopes up yet.

My contact called me back.  He asked for a wiring diagram to give to the team. Anyone have experience making wiring drawings?  :)
Diagram is pretty simple but my graphical skills are lacking.  If anyone has experience and wants to help let me know in thread or by PM.

Also if someone can measure the PSU barrel adapter.  Measure in mm the length of the metalic part.  I know BFL indicates 12mm but I just want to make sure.  12mm seems a very strange length for 2.5mm/5.5mm barrel plug.  Can't seem to find a part # anywhere (Molex, digikey, half dozen suppliers, etc).  Found 8mm length and 14mm length but not 12mm length.  ???  If someone from BFL is reading this and has part # for the barrel power socket on the BFL Single board it would help finding an exact match.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 09:09:51 PM
I measure 10mm for metallic part and plastic tip.  8mm of metal and 2mm plastic tip.



Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 12, 2012, 09:10:33 PM
I measure 10mm for metallic part and plastic tip.  8mm of metal and 2mm plastic tip.

Thanks.  I could have swore Sonny said 12mm but I may have been wrong.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BTC-engineer on March 12, 2012, 09:11:02 PM
I went ahead and cut the insulation.  12.1v at full load (12.22v at idle).

I also measured ambient - it's around 80F not 72F, if we can believe my IR thermometer.



Thanks for the measurement.

I try to wrap up the data.

BFL single revision: 1
Firmware version: ?
Environment temperature: 80F / 26.7°C
Supply voltage: +12V
Power supply voltage: 115VAC
Power supply frequency: 60Hz
Power consumption single only @idle: ~20.8W
Power consumption single only @mining: ~71.4W
Power supply loss @mining: ~13.6W
Power consumption incl. power supply @mining: ~85W
Power supply efficiency @mining: ~84%  

Could you please verify it.
I guess the power consumption will slightly decrease if you run the unit with a lower environment temperature.
I will verify this data with my own measurements when receiving my first 2 units.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 09:13:40 PM
Revision is v1, not 2, unless you are counting the smaller prototypes as rev1.

Firmware I don't know.

Power Consumption including PSU brick is between 85 - 89w I think... I don't have my kill-a-watt here though.  It's definitely more than 80w and definitely less than 90w.  I think 85w is a safe average.



Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BTC-engineer on March 12, 2012, 09:15:08 PM
Revision is v1, not 2, unless you are counting the smaller prototypes as rev1.

Firmware I don't know.

Power Consumption including PSU brick is between 85 - 89w I think... I don't have my kill-a-watt here though.  It's definitely more than 80w and definitely less than 90w.  I think 85w is a safe average.



Ok, thanks for checking. I have changed it.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BFL-Engineer on March 12, 2012, 09:15:42 PM
Tentative good news.  OEM is considering the order a small run.  Not sure if it is past business or that the economy is slow.  In the past I know the have balked at runs below thousand units.  No idea on pricing yet, no need to respond saying you want one, and don't get your hopes up yet.

My contact called me back.  He asked for a wiring diagram to give to the team. Anyone have experience making wiring drawings?  :)
Diagram is pretty simple but my graphical skills are lacking.  If anyone has experience and wants to help let me know in thread or by PM.

Also if someone can measure the PSU barrel adapter.  Measure in mm the length of the metalic part.  I know BFL indicates 12mm but I just want to make sure.  12mm seems a very strange length for 2.5mm/5.5mm barrel plug.  Can't seem to find a part # anywhere (Molex, digikey, half dozen suppliers, etc).  Found 8mm length and 14mm length but not 12mm length.  ???  If someone from BFL is reading this and has part # for the barrel power socket on the BFL Single board it would help finding an exact match.

The metallic part of the barrel jack is 12mm, but it can be longer as well. The socket part number is: CP-002BH-ND (Digikey part number)
and the manufacturer part number is: PJ-002BH.


Good Luck,


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 09:17:21 PM
I just checked my "shipping" PSU tip.. I have been working on my pre-release PSU brick - the tip is 12mm.  10mm metal and 2mm plastic.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 12, 2012, 09:17:43 PM
Oh whoops, guess my info is redundant now :)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 12, 2012, 09:26:16 PM
The socket part number is: CP-002BH-ND (Digikey part number) and the manufacturer part number is: PJ-002BH.

Perfect.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: P_Shep on March 12, 2012, 09:33:44 PM
Hey Mr BFL man,
If we don't need the included PSU, can we get a discount? :)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 12, 2012, 09:35:30 PM
Hey Mr BFL man,
If we don't need the included PSU, can we get a discount? :)
I still think the idea of either a PSU or an adapter is a good idea for a choice.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BFL-Engineer on March 12, 2012, 11:20:36 PM
Hey Mr BFL man,
If we don't need the included PSU, can we get a discount? :)

We can ship your unit(s) without PSU (10$ reduction).


Regards,


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: iambaboon on March 13, 2012, 08:54:03 AM
ZTEX have a guide for adapting to a computer PSU:

http://wiki.ztex.de/doku.php?id=en:ztex_boards:ztex_fpga_boards:cluster_power_supplies

I guess it can be applied here, not sure about the power though.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BFL-Engineer on March 13, 2012, 09:15:32 AM
ZTEX have a guide for adapting to a computer PSU:

http://wiki.ztex.de/doku.php?id=en:ztex_boards:ztex_fpga_boards:cluster_power_supplies

I guess it can be applied here, not sure about the power though.


Connecting a computer PSU to BitFORCE units is very easy. For this, all you need is a barrel jack and a PSU. The center
of the barrel jack must be connected (or soldered) to the Yellow wire (providing 12Volts) and the outer-cylinder of the
jack is connected to the black wire (the GND). Please note that each yellow wire must be able to provide 70Watts
of power (that's around 5.83A per wire).

The jack needs to be 5.5mm OD and 2.5mm ID (OD=Outer Diameter, ID=Inner Diameter).


Regards,


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jjiimm_64 on March 17, 2012, 03:29:24 AM
Tentative good news.  OEM is considering the order a small run.  Not sure if it is past business or that the economy is slow.  In the past I know the have balked at runs below thousand units.  No idea on pricing yet, no need to respond saying you want one, and don't get your hopes up yet.

My contact called me back.  He asked for a wiring diagram to give to the team. Anyone have experience making wiring drawings?  :)
Diagram is pretty simple but my graphical skills are lacking.  If anyone has experience and wants to help let me know in thread or by PM.

Also if someone can measure the PSU barrel adapter.  Measure in mm the length of the metalic part.  I know BFL indicates 12mm but I just want to make sure.  12mm seems a very strange length for 2.5mm/5.5mm barrel plug.  Can't seem to find a part # anywhere (Molex, digikey, half dozen suppliers, etc).  Found 8mm length and 14mm length but not 12mm length.  ???  If someone from BFL is reading this and has part # for the barrel power socket on the BFL Single board it would help finding an exact match.

D&T,  did we ever get word whether you can get a run of these?  I would like to pitch in.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 17, 2012, 03:38:20 AM
I did not.  I sent a followup email on Thursday was told I would be given a quote on Friday.  I wasn't.

That pesky thing called my real job preventing me from making another followup.  I gave them a pinout and technical drawings.  I will let everyone know when I know.

If I can't find an OEM to do it the cables could be done by hand but it will be slow tedious work.

A 3x barrel to 1 PCIe 6 pin adapter requires

1) cut 6 wires for x ft in length
2) strip both ends.
3) crimp male pin to one end of all 6 wires.
4) solder crimp pin
5) attach 6 pins to PCIE 6pin module
6) solder 3 of the wires to shell connector on barrel adapter
7) solder 3 of the wires to the center connector on barrel adapter
8 ) attach barrel cover
9) cover assembly in shrink tubing and shrink
10) test

For the couple dollars in markup no thanks.  :)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 17, 2012, 03:41:40 AM
I did not.  I sent a followup email on Thursday was told I would be given a quote on Friday.  I wasn't.

That pesky thing called my real job preventing me from making another followup.  I gave them a pinout and technical drawings.  I will let everyone know when I know.

If I can't find an OEM to do it the cables could be done by hand but it will be slow tedious work.

A 3x barrel to 1 PCIe 6 pin adapter requires

1) cut 6 wires for x ft in length
2) strip both ends.
3) crimp male pin to one end of all 6 wires.
4) solder crimp pin
5) attach 6 pins to PCIE 6pin module
6) solder 3 of the wires to shell connector on barrel adapter
7) solder 3 of the wires to the center connector on barrel adapter
8) attach barrel cover
9) cover assembly in shrink tubing and shrink
10) test

I have a nice automatic stripper, but the crimping would piss me off rapidly. If I had one of Molex's dedicated $350 crimpers, I might give it better consideration, but then there is soldering to worry about.. Nah no thanks :(


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jjiimm_64 on March 17, 2012, 03:44:57 AM

Thxs.  I just ordered 2.  but any more and I would want to hook them to my seasonics.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jddebug on March 17, 2012, 04:09:30 AM
Although it pains me a little to do it I'm going to just cut off the PCIe connector and wire these on. They were $4 a piece and I can use crimps or whatever and will be fast and easy. I bought a 1200 watt supply PSU COOLMAX|ZPG-1200B 1200W R to run the 14 singles.

http://i44.tinypic.com/mb4ahs.jpg

These were available at my local electronic supply house. I imagine even Radio Shack would have them.

They had cheaper ones (24 gauge wire which I felt was a bit small) and they had just barrel connectors but I don't want to waste a day trying to screw with soldering to barrel connectors. These are a simple snip, strip and crimp.



Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jake262144 on March 17, 2012, 12:47:53 PM
Although it pains me a little to do it I'm going to just cut off the PCIe connector and wire these on. They were $4 a piece and I can use crimps or whatever and will be fast and easy. I bought a 1200 watt supply PSU COOLMAX|ZPG-1200B 1200W R to run the 14 singles.
Why not use one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812198016) of (http://www.amazon.com/CableHero-8-Pin-PCI-Express-Adapter-Y-Splitter/dp/B0021ZQK6A) these (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21721) adapters (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8252/cab-148/8-pin_PCI-E_to_2x_PCI-E_8pin_Y_cable.html?tl=g11c413s427) instead of ruining the resale value of your PSU?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jddebug on March 17, 2012, 04:37:39 PM
Although it pains me a little to do it I'm going to just cut off the PCIe connector and wire these on. They were $4 a piece and I can use crimps or whatever and will be fast and easy. I bought a 1200 watt supply PSU COOLMAX|ZPG-1200B 1200W R to run the 14 singles.
Why not use one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812198016) of (http://www.amazon.com/CableHero-8-Pin-PCI-Express-Adapter-Y-Splitter/dp/B0021ZQK6A) these (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21721) adapters (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8252/cab-148/8-pin_PCI-E_to_2x_PCI-E_8pin_Y_cable.html?tl=g11c413s427) instead of ruining the resale value of your PSU?

I'd have to be a bit more patient to do that (Can't find any of those locally, I tried). Thank you for pointing out where to get them. I may wait. I've not done any cutting.....yet.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: BlackPrapor on March 19, 2012, 01:46:40 PM
Hey Mr BFL man,
If we don't need the included PSU, can we get a discount? :)
Taking into account that PSU weighs as much as the unit itself, shipping discount should be offered as well.... I'm just saying.  ;D ::)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 19, 2012, 01:49:05 PM
Hey Mr BFL man,
If we don't need the included PSU, can we get a discount? :)
Taking into account that PSU weighs as much as the unit itself, shipping discount should be offered as well.... I'm just saying.  ;D ::)
Lol, I suppose it does make a bit of a difference if you expect them to ship you 50 at once ;D


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 05:50:31 PM
So I got a quote back.  Simply not economical for our purposes.

3x barrel to 1x PCIe 6 pin adapter (2ft in length) is $25.34 ea in qty 100.  Even qty 250 only brings that down to $19.88.  :(

Very disappointing since I estimate the parts to be <$8 in bulk.  Needless to say I won't be ordering them and I have no interest in doing any by hand beyond my personal use.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 19, 2012, 06:06:30 PM
Well shit...

So, do we have a comprehensive parts list and requirements?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 06:15:03 PM
I have it on my home computer I will post a parts list this evening. 

I think partially complete parts lists are floating around in various threads.

The main obstacle is the mind numbing tedium of manually crimping and soldering a couple hundred wires. 


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 19, 2012, 06:28:56 PM
Yeah, I am not looking forward to that... it is almost tempting to just cut the ends off and do some soldering.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 06:41:50 PM
Yeah, I am not looking forward to that... it is almost tempting to just cut the ends off and do some soldering.

Yeah I am thinking that is the better route for hand assembly.  Doing 6 butt splices would be a lot easier than building a cable assembly by hand.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 19, 2012, 09:27:05 PM
Yeah, I am not looking forward to that... it is almost tempting to just cut the ends off and do some soldering.

Yeah I am thinking that is the better route for hand assembly.  Doing 6 butt splices would be a lot easier than building a cable assembly by hand.

Well hey, I just found this thing:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/svcompucycle_2198_179519646

That would cut the amount of work needed by quite a lot. You would only need to buy barrel adapters, and then there would be no PSU hacking needed. I might even do some, since gigavps offered 4BTC each how does that sound for everyone?

EDIT: This one would allow for 3 BFLs per 6-pin, and if you need some, say how many so I can figure out how much stuff to order.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jamesg on March 19, 2012, 09:32:17 PM
Well, I think we can count me out for the moment. Saving 10w on 11 singles 80Kwh for me over the course of a month which amounts to $5.68 or ~1.1 BTC. A month. I was thinking it would be fun to do this, but the cost seems a bit too high with the extra PSU ($220) and adapters ($250).

My money is best utilized elsewhere atm.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 09:32:36 PM
Yeah that was my original thought.  Still a lot of work sweatshop work which is why I looked for an OEM.  However if you are interested go for it.  I am sure there is demand for a product.  I would be interested but not @ 4 BTC each.  


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 09:34:20 PM
Well, I think we can count me out for the moment. Saving 10w on 11 singles 80Kwh for me over the course of a month which amounts to $5.68 or ~1.1 BTC. A month. I was thinking it would be fun to do this, but the cost seems a bit too high with the extra PSU ($220) and adapters ($250).

My money is best utilized elsewhere atm.

The quote was $25 for a 3x1 adapters.  I won't be ordering them as I was hoping they could supply them for $10 and I mark them up to $15. :).  At $25 for cost there is no market and no profit for yours truly.  Still it wouldn't require 11 adapters to power 11 singles just 4.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jamesg on March 19, 2012, 09:37:28 PM
Well, I think we can count me out for the moment. Saving 10w on 11 singles 80Kwh for me over the course of a month which amounts to $5.68 or ~1.1 BTC. A month. I was thinking it would be fun to do this, but the cost seems a bit too high with the extra PSU ($220) and adapters ($250).

My money is best utilized elsewhere atm.

The quote was $25 for 3x1 adapters.  I won't be ordering them I was hoping they could supply them for $10 and I mark them up to $15. :).  Still it wouldn't require 11 adapters to power 11 singles just 4.

I stand corrected.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: P_Shep on March 19, 2012, 09:45:07 PM
I made a few for myself. Will have a few more to sell when I get round to soldering them.

https://i.imgur.com/j2pjE.jpg


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 09:49:00 PM
Looks nice P_shep but how is that 4x1 adapter wired?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 19, 2012, 09:49:13 PM
I made a few for myself. Will have a few more to sell when I get round to soldering them.

https://i.imgur.com/j2pjE.jpg
Very nice. I never considered using the EPS12V connector, because you could use it for a host system such as a cheap atom or VIA based mini-ITX board. And, if you are powering FPGAs other than BFL, you could even use one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812198016 for a total of 12 6 FPGA per 6-pin connector. (edit, brain dead, said 12 meant 6)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: P_Shep on March 19, 2012, 09:52:55 PM
Looks nice P_shep but how is that 4x1 adapter wired?

Just wired to each of the 4 pairs as you would expect.

The 6-pin PCI-E has just 2 wired to the outer pairs.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: P_Shep on March 19, 2012, 09:57:10 PM
Can see them here (as posted in the rigs thread!):
https://i.imgur.com/pv0A6.jpg

Using the 12v and 5v from the 4-pin peripheral connector to power the router and hub respectively.

All I need now is for my singles to arrive.


*twiddles thumbs*

*whistles*

*Scratches butt*


When they do, I'll have a nice ~5Gh/s 'rig' which can be plugged into any socket, pretty much anywhere - just need a wifi connection :)


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: P_Shep on March 19, 2012, 10:16:12 PM
ATX PSU's *should* fail safely... you've had one take out components too?  :o


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 10:19:24 PM
I have never seen a high quality PSU kill downstream components unless abused or pushed beyond specs.  Honestly I haven't ever heard of any ATX PSU damaging components that wasn't related to user error or abuse.

In our datacenter we have $80,000 servers running 24/7/365 off power supplies (n+1 redundant).  Power supplies are designed to safely power a lot more than a couple thousand in FPGAs.  Your UPS idea is dubious.  What if it is the UPS not the PSU which fails?  Plus UPS don't really exist for DC loads at the price point you are looking at.  So you are talking about some kind of modding increasing the risk of failure.


Anything can happen but internal PSU failure that also protected downstream components is very remote.  If you really feel the need for supplemental protection get:
a) whole house surge arrestor (a real one)  <- still won't help in a direct strike hopefully your mains are underground
b) a dedicated circuit and outlet preferably with a locking connector to prevent accidental disconnection
c) line interactive UPS

the goal being to ensure the power into the PSU is perfectly clean.  Transients from upstream of the PSU are far more likely to cause damage than a failure of a PSU which results in internal unsafe voltage.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 19, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
I have trouble finding high enough capacity UPS units that don't cost more than it's worth to protect, though...


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 19, 2012, 10:52:24 PM
I have trouble finding high enough capacity UPS units that don't cost more than it's worth to protect, though...

For GPUs I agree but he is talking about ztex FPGAs.  At $250 per board (even in bulk) and 8W it is roughly $31 per watt.  One can get a UPS for 1% of total system cost. Sounds like a good investment to me.

Now GPUs  I wouldn't consider a UPS.  



Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 20, 2012, 12:00:48 AM
I have never seen a high quality PSU kill downstream components unless abused or pushed beyond specs.  Honestly I haven't ever heard of any ATX PSU damaging components that wasn't related to user error or abuse.
+1, also insurance.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 20, 2012, 12:06:44 AM
The internal protection in a PSU will not allow the output voltage to go out of spec, I.E., it will never be above or below its rated output. Therefore a "brownout" cannot happen on the 12v side, but such an event on the input will simply cause a shutdown.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 20, 2012, 01:22:22 AM
I have trouble finding high enough capacity UPS units that don't cost more than it's worth to protect, though...

For GPUs I agree but he is talking about ztex FPGAs.  At $250 per board (even in bulk) and 8W it is roughly $31 per watt.  One can get a UPS for 1% of total system cost. Sounds like a good investment to me.

Now GPUs  I wouldn't consider a UPS. 



I'm not sure I see how that matters, if he's loading down a 1200w PSU with 125 Zetex or 14 BFL units, the load is the same to the UPS.  Am I missing something?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 20, 2012, 01:24:26 AM
I have trouble finding high enough capacity UPS units that don't cost more than it's worth to protect, though...

For GPUs I agree but he is talking about ztex FPGAs.  At $250 per board (even in bulk) and 8W it is roughly $31 per watt.  One can get a UPS for 1% of total system cost. Sounds like a good investment to me.

Now GPUs  I wouldn't consider a UPS. 



I'm not sure I see how that matters, if he's loading down a 1200w PSU with 125 Zetex or 14 BFL units, the load is the same to the UPS.  Am I missing something?
Probably that the loss in efficiency isn't much to worry about when the farm makes so much money during power outage. FWIW, I wouldn't bother with a UPS though, power is never out very long around here.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 20, 2012, 01:31:33 AM
I'm not sure I see how that matters, if he's loading down a 1200w PSU with 125 Zetex or 14 BFL units, the load is the same to the UPS.  Am I missing something?

The cost of the equipment being protected.  GPU are cheaper and use more power which means a UPS will be more expensive and a higher % of total system cost.  An FPGA is more expensive and uses less power which means a UPS will be less expensive and a lower % of total system cost.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 20, 2012, 01:32:47 AM
Probably that the loss in efficiency isn't much to worry about when the farm makes so much money during power outage. FWIW, I wouldn't bother with a UPS though, power is never out very long around here.

My thinking was just that since he is overly concerned about the quality of the power a line interactive UPS would ensure a very high quality input AC power.  Near perfect sinewave with the UPS boosting sags and absorbing spikes. 


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 20, 2012, 01:34:03 AM
Probably that the loss in efficiency isn't much to worry about when the farm makes so much money during power outage. FWIW, I wouldn't bother with a UPS though, power is never out very long around here.

My thinking was just that since he is overly concerned about the quality of the power a line interactive UPS would ensure a very high quality input AC power.  Near perfect sinewave with the UPS boosting sags and absorbing spikes. 
Ah yes I didn't consider that. A double-conversion UPS would certainly add protection at the cost of some efficiency (not sure how much though).


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 20, 2012, 01:44:08 AM
So where to get the barrel connectors cheap?  I may make a bulk order of some 6 pin adapters and would just need to cut those and solder on the barrel connectors.  Anyone got a source?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 20, 2012, 01:53:08 AM
So where to get the barrel connectors cheap?  I may make a bulk order of some 6 pin adapters and would just need to cut those and solder on the barrel connectors.  Anyone got a source?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=CP3-002BH-ND
But you might want to order one extender first to make sure it isn't going to be shitty 20 gauge wire.

EDIT: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812198016 is a dual splitter for 6 non-BFL (I.E., under 40 watts each) FPGAs per 6-pin, and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123301 is for 3 per 6pin.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Inaba on March 20, 2012, 02:02:42 AM
You sure that OK Gear one is 16ga or better?  One other issue I see is ... is 12" enough to actually run 3 units spread out enough?  Might be kinda tight depending on heat envrionment.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 20, 2012, 02:04:37 AM
You sure that OK Gear one is 16ga or better?
Not sure, that's why I said buy 1 to find out. Might be able to look them up and find a spec sheet, but I doubt it.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 20, 2012, 02:17:34 AM
You sure that OK Gear one is 16ga or better?  One other issue I see is ... is 12" enough to actually run 3 units spread out enough?  Might be kinda tight depending on heat envrionment.

You can always do a double splice

connector ---- butt splice ----- extension wire 2 ft ----- butt splice ---- wire terminated barrel adapter

but the longer the cable the more important it is to have thick wires to avoid voltage drop and the corresponding current / temp increase.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: rjk on March 20, 2012, 02:24:01 AM
You sure that OK Gear one is 16ga or better?  One other issue I see is ... is 12" enough to actually run 3 units spread out enough?  Might be kinda tight depending on heat envrionment.

You can always do a double splice

connector ---- butt splice ----- extension wire 2 ft ----- butt splice ---- wire terminated barrel adapter

but the longer the cable the more important it is to have thick wires to avoid voltage drop and the corresponding current / temp increase.
The reason I mention the size is because ngzhang just recently burnt some such similar extenders when testing Icarus. Not sure how many Icarus he was testing per wire, but it must have been more than 2, cause the connections went brown fairly quickly.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: P_Shep on March 22, 2012, 09:41:25 PM
Selling some connectors here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=73576.0


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: kibblesnbits on March 24, 2012, 12:29:05 PM
I made a few for myself. Will have a few more to sell when I get round to soldering them.

https://i.imgur.com/j2pjE.jpg

We're you able to make a few of these for sale?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: jamesg on March 24, 2012, 12:30:38 PM
I made a few for myself. Will have a few more to sell when I get round to soldering them.

https://i.imgur.com/j2pjE.jpg

We're you able to make a few of these for sale?

See the post exactly 1 post before yours.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Cablez on March 24, 2012, 01:09:29 PM
I will be making a custom set of pcie->12v barrel for when my singles arrive.  These will be be custom length, standard connector cables crimped with no butt splices.

I am set up here to make fully custom cables if you BFL single owners are interested.  See here for cables: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0

EDIT: Here are the pics of my BFL single cables:
https://i.imgur.com/jZD6q.jpg
The cables are 35" long with 2.5/5.5mm center +ve barrel plugs at a pitch of 8" for BFL single spacing.
For my needs I have used an EPS12V and a direct to PSU PCIE connector (for simpler management).

 


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: antirack on April 27, 2012, 04:57:09 AM
What I really don't understand is how you guys are able to use 1 PCI-e from the PSU to power 3 BFL singles. The three +12V lines are limited to 2.083A each, but the single needs 5.83A.

Please note that each yellow wire must be able to provide 70Watts
of power (that's around 5.83A per wire)

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html#pciexpress


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 27, 2012, 05:40:24 AM
The spec limits it to that but it is an artificial limitation.  The wiring and actual adapter can handle much much more.  Well over 250W.

Just to show you how artificial that limit is.

6 pin connector = 75W max (2.083A per ea of the 3x 12VDC conductors)
8 pin connector = 150W max (4.17A per ea of the 3x 12VDC conductors)

Hmm.  Yeah the two extra pins are simply unloaded grounds.  The device pulls to ground to verify it has a 8 pin connector attached.  All the power is delivered over the same 3 wires.

Now if you look at some PSU they have a pair of connectors on the same set of wires

like this:
psu ---------- adapter #1 ------ adapter #2

but wait the load through adapter #1 is going to be 300W if both adpaters are loaded to spec. 

Starting to get the picture?


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: antirack on April 27, 2012, 12:34:36 PM
Thanks DeathAndTaxes, very helpful as usual.

I went out and bought a couple of cables/adapters and built a custom cable. The cables are still getting hot, the AWG16 and AWG18 printed on them is probably fake which is nothing unusual in my corner of the world I guess. I already had that suspicion in the shops, the cables are really very thin to be AWG16. But I literally went to dozens of shops and they are more or less all selling the same crap.

The cable that was included with the PSU (real AWG18) doesn't get hot. I use the cable from the PSU and plug my own cable into the plug on the other end. I'd have used my own wiring, but I just couldn't find a dual AWG16 cable. Heading out again tomorrow to buy a roll of AWG16 in red and brown (no yellow/black in stock). Makes it a bit more complicated, since I will have to solder on the connectors which I tried to avoid by buying all the crappy cables above.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Fs9Qmp1KM74/T5qR3ZeC0NI/AAAAAAAAQeo/b4U5dBCR3FE/s800/nsmail.jpg


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 27, 2012, 12:38:02 PM
yeah you will want to make sure they are thick cables.  Best thing to do is cut one of them and measure it with a wire stripper.  In AWG16 setting it should strip only the insulation and none of the strands.  If it doesn't using wire stripper you can find out what gauge they really are.


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: antirack on April 27, 2012, 12:41:16 PM
Sorry, I was still editing the above post when you replied. I may actually speak to some of these shops about making custom cables, or I go directly to the source in China next week. I'll show them a sample and ask for the price for 100 pieces (with real cables).


Title: Re: Specs on BFL Single power adapter?
Post by: Cablez on April 27, 2012, 05:56:40 PM
@antirack - I have made my own 6pin PCIE tri-BFL 16AWG cable similar to my above post and it does not get warm at all with the singles humming away happily.  Be careful with substandard wiring, nothing good will come of it.

If China doesn't work out for you I can make what you need. I am in the US though. See sig for marketplace.  :)