Bitcoin Forum

I just found out about Venmo this past weekend. Features:
Pay by phone
Takes money out of credit card or bank
Zero fees

Aside from Bitcoin's other killer features (international,  anonymous, no need for a bank account, not subject to federal regulation or inflation), I this this service takes away the biggest reasons to use it for every day people: transferring money easily and for free. But unlike Bitcoin, it's also extremely easy: just link your credit card number to it and you're good to go.
I'm really worried this alternative may make convincing people to accept Bitcoin much more difficult. Thoughts?

In United States and other western countries I don't see that bitcoin will become mainstream anytime soon. The first "real" applications could be in 3rd world countries and in international trade, such as the remittance business.

How does Venmo make money?

still based on a USD system where the 0.01% have total control.  i don't get your point.

You could check out election results in the US to see the vast majority of people either have no problem with the status quo, or have no interest in monetary policy.

Anyway, Venmo sounds quite similar to Dwolla, except they somehow work with credit card companies without charging a fee. It seems their business model relies on businesses being willing to pay fees in the future (they state they currently have no partnerships). It's effectively just a money pit right now for whoever decided to invest in it. Can't imagine they'll stay around for more than a few months.

Perhaps this: http://blogs.hbr.org/hbr/hbr-now/2009/09/is-reverse-innovation-like-dis.html

Then again Mt Gox could start using them, and with the help of the Bitcoin community Venmo will be as big as Dwolla, whereupon in a few months Venmo would get another, let's say, $5M in funding, then...

Two ways. First, they work like a combination of Twitter and Foursquare, collecting information about where people spend money, how much, and what they think of the product. That data is very valuable to businesses (though is very anti-anonymous)
Second, you need to withdraw money into your own bank after you receive it. Chances are, people will keep it there and send it to someone else later, so transactions are within network, and don't cost Venmo anything. In effect, they are creating their own currency chain, and all that idle money can earn them a lot of interest.

Edit: I found mentions of Venmo on this forum going as far back as 2010, so they're apparently not going anywhere. Regarding MtGox, I suspect they are either as risky, and/or as risk averse as PayPal when it comes to Bitcoin. Especially with having credit cards in the mix.

Gox might even be willing to pay the fees to allow Venmo to sustain itself, too. I imagine chargeback problems would cause another big clusterfuck, though.

Note to self: Next time show image of tongue-in-cheek when commenting to Rassah.  ;)

yeah, Dwolla is what first came to mind for me too. 

maybe gox could exploit this situation by using Venmo to create a bunch of new biz but prevent chargebacks somehow. ;D

that really doesn't sound sustainable to me.

One easy use is to withdraw Bitcoin to Venmo. MtGox is trusted enough for that, and I doubt they would o chargebacks on their customers.

Hell, a new company could be formed based on the same business model. Call it Algocy (in the spirit of coining new words, e.g. Venmo). (note no tongue-in-cheek image, for I'm serious)

~Cackling Bear~

I don't see Venmo as a problem. It's just a way to transfer USD. I want a currency that
1) is widely accepted
2) easy to transfer in person
3) easy to transfer online
4) holds its purchasing power over long periods of time

Venmo is just another attempt to help make USD easier to transfer online. It may or may not work. But it's still dealing with USD. While BTC has some hurdles to clear, the one huge trump card that BTC has and the big Achilles' heel of the USD is #4. The USD has lost over 95% of its purchasing power since the Federal Reserve system was created in 1913. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Federal_Reserve#Inflation
BTC is designed to be deflationary over long periods of time. So not only would BTC hold its purchasing power over long periods of time but its purchasing power will likely grow over long periods of time. Bitcoin is revolutionary in many ways. Will BTC have success equal to other fiat currencies? Will BTC be successful but only on a small niche market level? Will BTC fizzle out and be worth nothing or close to nothing? Stay tuned to find out.

The USD has been around for a while. We already know the endgame result, continued loss of purchasing power. Maybe only economics freeks and computer geeks are currently affected by BTC. But just as USD policy affects everyone in the US (and most other countries), BTC has the potential to affect everyone.

Venmo seems to take care of 1, 2, and 3, relegating Bitcoin to only things outside USA, or for wealth storage. It just sucks that Bitcoin's #1 advantage - free, easy, mobile-to-mobile payments - is now gone and outweighed by it's difficulty to obtain.
Are there services like this in Europe?

Its a competitor since you can send money for free.
 
But will you be able to do escrow?
Bitcoin if the Bip 16 ever gets implemented solves an old problem of trading, for free.

Bitcoin is private.
What made internet popular ;) Porn...

What can you now pay for anonymously with Bitcoins?

Can you transfer a small coin or do micro transactions to your relative in Asia?

Overnight transfers. Venmo offers the fastest bank transfers available anywhere. Request a transfer to your bank account, and the money will be there the next morning.

Bitcoin is faster than Venmo...

There is still a huuuuge market for Bitcoin ;)

Therefore, I ask, who's working on a near zero fee escrow service, one of which locks (not stores) bitcoin transactions until both parties are satisfied?

~Bruno~

Bitcoin is not deflationary. It's inflationary on an asymptotic pattern. The system never reduces the money supply, thus it's not deflationary (silly fools who lose their keys notwithstanding).

Long term, it'd be correct to say Bitcoin is neither deflationary nor inflationary... it's simply constant in supply. This concept would make a central banker's head explode.

More and more people are travellers. The globality of bitcoin will win people over (eventually).

Venmo still uses fiat junk paper, some of us still call it money... I think that's the only real point that will make bitcoin win in the end.

Accusations of money laundering in 3, 2, 1...

I don't think the point that "Venmo uses fiat" is going to win anyone over. No one really cares. People only care about how easy it is to covert what comes in as paychecks into stuff they can buy to make themselves happy. I guess global convenience is the main major selling point to push now.

What if they want something that their government forbids them?

EDIT: For example, protecting their purchasing power, donating to a certain organization, gambling online, etc..

+1

Show me Venmo to online poker in minutes and I'll be worried.

Ok.. somebody please contact MTGOX and ask them to implement it as withdraw option like Rassah Said

I'm not disputing that Bitcoin will still have niche markets. I'm still very long Bitcoin, too. Just that the biggest advantage people were trying to sell to others (easy free money transfers) is now gone. With this, it's now basically a hacker's currency.

I'd think of it as more of a stepping stone, not a roadblock.

No need to wait for the death of the dollar. The black market is not a niche: it is huge, and growing rapidly.

Slight correction on that claim about zero fees:

Venmo allows the payment to be funded from a credit card.   That used to be provided at par (no fee for the transfer from a card).  Now they charge 3% apparently  (though for new users, the first $500 of charges is free from any fees).

 - http://help.venmo.com/customer/portal/articles/429494-why-is-venmo-charging-credit-card-fees-

I got that e-mail a few days ago, too. Was actually very happy to hear that  ;D

I see Venmo as another service in an already crowded field of competitors offering services to transfer USD, either with fees or without. The market is splintered and for each service you need to set up another account. All of these services are subject to chargebacks. How is Venmo any different from these services which have mobile apps you can use to send USD
1) PayPal
2) Chase QuickPay https://www.chase.com/online/services/quickpay.htm
3) ING Direct's P2p2 http://home.ingdirect.com/products/htmls_content/demo_p2p.html

How will all of this shake out? Probably some consolidation, but around which service, who knows?

At this point, it's pretty much PayPal (if you use the gift option), so I'm not worried. Before this recent change, being able to add any source of funds, including credit cards, and transfer money back and forth for free (my friends were tossing $0.01 back and forth all day for the hell of it) made it stand out quite a bit. I guess doubters were right, that system was unsustainable.
Don't forget, for Bitcoin to be useful, you also need to set up another account (Gox, Dwolla, Bit-Pay, etc)

There are multiple categories of mobile apps that send USD.  The categories are:

- Mobile banking
- Mobile e-commerce
- Mobile money transfer
- Mobile payment

Excluding the mobile banking apps (which nearly every major bank offers) and the B2B and B2C-only mobile payment apps (e.g., the Starbucks payment app, Google Wallet, TabbedOut, Jumio Netswipe, LevelUp/Scvngr, BokU, etc.) then your list also would include:

4.) Serve (AmEx)
5.) Dwolla
6.) Venmo
7.) AlertPay
8.) Skrill / MoneyBookers
9.) Clover
10.) HyperWallet
11.) Slash8 App
12.) Klunki
13.) KuaPay
14.) OpenCuro
15.) Boom (m-Via)
16.) Square
17.) GoPayment (Intuit)
18.) PAYware (Verifone)
19.) Stripe (to some degree can be P2P)
20.) WePay (to some degree can be P2P)

And that's just USD or primarily for the U.S.  Then there are:
 
21..) PayFirma (like Square, but Canadian)
22.) PingIT (Barclay's - UK)
23.) OboPay
24.) M-Pesa (Kenya)
25.) AirTel App (India)
26.) GCash (Philippines)
27.) Smart Money (Philippines)

and ... oh, a slew of others around the world.

The one thing they all have in common?  They are all basically methods to do what banks themselves haven't been doing.  They exist to reduce some of the friction of working with the banking system.  Some day they'll see major competition from apps that link to bitcoin (or will incorporate that functionality themselves.)