Bitcoin Forum

Shakaru owes me a substantial sum of money from a mining contract gone awry. Being as impatient as I am, I would like to see some of this cash very soon. I do believe that the debts will eventually be paid back and that Shakaru is trying to right his wrongs, but the timetable is unacceptable for me. So for anyone out there willing to wait PM with an offer!

Important note: I am owed $1250 dollars total, a purchase does not have to be in full.


Relevant link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.0)

Why?

I'm watching this for obvious reasons.

Would be awesome if Shakaru bought it.

With a loan.

Of course, Shakaru should have to give consent. We'll see about that offer...


No it wouldn't, that is tantamount to me being scammed,. I offered him a settlement of $1250, that is what he will have to pay.

Money is fungible.  What does it matter if you get $800 from him or $800 from someone else or $800 from him indirectly through someone else.  Obviously you are willing to settle for less than $1250 otherwise you wouldn't be offering it for sale.

It's a matter of principle and unfortunately pride. I cannot bring myself to sell my losses to the person that lost it for me so they can profit.

I don't see why he should have to consent to it, at all. As far as he's concerned, if the debt gets sold, he owes the same amount of money to a different person.

Agreed.  Sellling debt occurs everday.  It would be useful for him to verify the debt exists (unless he already has).

Someone wants me to tell you that you're insane.

but 'settle for less' comes with strings attached.

the other aspect to it is timing.

faster money is more valuable money.

i.e. getting your hands on $400 within the next 10 minutes is probably preferable to getting $600 within 7 days or $900 within a month, or the full $1250 within nobody-really-knows-how-long.


i'd also settle for less than i'm currently owed, but that would also come with time-related provisions attached. otherwise i'll just wait it out.

I will offer 20 btc for this debt.

i can see now why andrew suggested converting the full debt to a trade-able stock... it would make these negotiations much more efficient.

With all due respect, shakaru's role in all of this has 2 components:

1)  Validate the debts.

2) Pay back btc to the fund.


It is up to the fund to keep track of where the btc go to.  Shakaru doesn't get a say as to where the btc goes.  In addition, other claimants don't get a say either, so long as their share doesn't diminish (except in the case o new validated debts up until the window closes.)

The problem with shakaru buying it would be that it would be really unfair to the rest of his creditors. If shakaru somehow gets hold of $800 it should go directly to the fund for a fair repayment to all creditors, not just to buy one person out. 

The 2nd quote explains the 1st. While money is in fact fungible and no it doesn't matter where the money comes from etc, this entire arrangement is predicated on the agreement that all of shakaru's money goes into the fund to repay creditors. Therefore, if he has money to buy back his own debt on this market he has defrauded the repay-creditors fund by the same amount.

Sorry a couple trillion dollars in deliquent debt changes hands every year.

Shakaru should do what has the highest ROI%. 
It may be to repay all investors in full. 
It may be to walk away from everything. 
It may be to settle for a fraction of the amount owed.


That is a short sighted view.  Any decision can be traced back to NPV.  Not paying the debt has a cost but paying the debt also has a cost.  Free markets work when each side is aggressively working in the own self interest.  That is why settlement on debt is often an option. 

Many debts would simply never be repaid if settlement wasn't an option.  Given the choice of paying in full or accepting a temporary hit on ones credit many would just take the hit rather than trying to pay down an impossible amount of debt.  The ability to settle provides a net benefit to both sides. 

Certainly having his consent won't hurt general satisfaction, and it's nice of you to wait for it, but even if he was vehemently against the deal, he shouldn't have a say in it.

Routinely unsecured debt with full debtor history and demographic data, as well as the original contract, and ability to put derogatory data in credit report sells for <10% of face value.  Older or less desirable accounts may sell for less than 1% of face value.  The lowest accepted bid I have ever seen was 0.02% of face on quarter billion dollars in delinquent debt.

Now with is with complete employment information, access to credit reports, social security numbers, good phone lookups, certain legal rights under debt collection laws, ability to sue, access to original contract for enforcement in court, ability to run a skip trace (find someone who doesn't want to found), etc.

50% of face?  The seller should have accepted that offer within seconds and laughed all the way to the bank.

Then again I only write statistical models to evaluate the value of delinquent debt based on historical collections for a major debt buyer so I might not have a clue.

You do realize that in total he owes more than $20 000 right? I really doubt his reputation here is worth more than that...

Stop assuming.  I was ROI% I didn't say short term ROI%.

Anyone who assumes that a business venture doesn't exist to take the maximum ROI% option is naive.


Nice guy and business success rarely have anything to do with each other.  I have invested in many assholes over the years and would do it again.  Shakaru biggest problem IMHO is that he was a nice guy who was totally out of his league.  His "niceguyness" didn't do jack crap for his investors ROI.

And listen to DeathAndTaxes, he knows what he is talking about. Except for this part:


Shakaru is a scammer who put up a "nice guy" front to be able to stay in the scam as long as possible.

Like I said if the seller was smart he would have insta accepted your offer.  Obviously you think 50% is fair and the seller thinks it is too low.  I just find that funny.

That was uncalled-for. Why does shit devolve into personal insults so quickly on these forums?

I'm not sure that's an accurate picture to paint, either. If you look back at the beginning of the Shades Minoco thread (and others, before the shit hit the fan), he was acting fairly arrogantly towards prospective investors.

It was just a joke :) I just think nobody was expecting anyone to pay that much for Shakaru's debt, is all.

Debt is for people that shouldn't be messing with bitcoins..... I don't want to be famous here so I don't think I'll expand on why or argue why- people with knowledge will know why along with reasons not mattering at all in any case. Enjoy fapping/speculating folks. (has overused the word 'why' in this topic)

wat.

True. It'also true that most of this debt is bought with the intention to be flipped to a greater fool. Does this apply here?

I accepted it, so am I smart now?

So, while on this topic, does anyone want to buy Shakaru's debt to me too? I'm owed $377, will let it go for 35 BTC (roughly 50%).

I'll pile on for 50% of the 63 BTC owed to me also.

As will people be offended and consider your racist and hateful misinterpretation of Catholic dogma to be ignorant. Adding something so grotesquely incorrect makes you look stupid, pick a better analogy.

And I'm glad there are business people who feel the way you do in the world. Really. It's nice to do business with someone who gives a damn. But it is also just as satisfying to do a deal with a complete arsehole, if both the arsehole and I come out of the deal feeling that we gained on the transaction. Emotion, compassion and anthropomorphizing transactions is nothing more than trying to build an artificial construct around a deal that makes you feel more protected.

It's a waste of effort.

I would absolutely encourage shakuru to buy up as much of his paper as possible at whatever discount he can wrangle. This has the immediate effect of allowing him to satisfy more of his debtors more rapidly. When one considers that there is approximately $20,000 in completely unsecured debt, backed by nothing more than a few comments made anonymously on a discussion forum? FFS, you should be damn glad to see anything on this.

And to back that up with a serious offer- I will buy as much of this debt as the market would care to sell at 1% on the original verified total, subject to a separate repayment schedule that shakuru and I would have to agree to. Four times what a lot of liquidations offer, and a full one bitcent on the bitcoin better than a complete rogering. Do you want the jingle of bitcoins in your pocket right now, right here, or do you want to have continued faith in the moral fiber and ethical make-up of shakuru?

Offer is on the table.

I was making an allegorical reference to the level of judgement and misinformed ignorance in your statement by equating it with "racism". Let me put it in smaller words so you won't be troubled by trying to translate it into Foolish:

You made a very wrong statement about Catholics. You were wrong to do so. You don't understand Catholicism, and in making the statement you did in support of your argument, you made yourself look uneducated.

On the other hand- racism is often used to describe prejudice against religious practice in common vernacular. Consider the continuous references to the "racially" motivated hatred directed towards Muslims in the US and the UK.

To compound your poorly conceived notion by equating dogma with "stupid" only brings your prejudice to further light. A core belief within the context of faith is not "stupid", it is just that, a core belief held by a follower of a given faith. No different in application than your dogma that individuals cannot separate their working lives and integrity from their personal lives. A core belief, neh? Your faith allows you to pass judgement on others based on the acceptance that reputation is far more important that physical assets. Which is deliciously ironic, in that you are casting yourself in a very unethical light by attacking other maliciously, detracting from your reputation and credibility, while arguing that reputation and credibility should be paramount.

Whoa, this thread is entirely off-topic! This is a marketplace not a public forum....

The religious issue is not entirely about intelligence. In fact there are plenty of smart people who participate or believe in religious anything.

And there are many reasons why sane, intelligent people choose to do so:
Some examples:

- to meet with the opposite sex
- to fit in with one's community / friends / family / etc
- required by law in some countries
- to serve some type of political purpose
- some people may have been brainwashed since a very early age causing some of there neurons to fuse in a way such that they won't accept an otherwise rational argument as it may cause a panic attack or nervous breakdown in their heads.

To say that it is because 'people are stupid' is only partially true since that description only applies to some people.

Then again, even atheism may be considered "not particularly smart" since an atheist doesn't know 100% for sure whether or not a higher power exists.

What's the point of this thread?

I think it was to sell debt that will never be recovered..  Wait, thats pointless.

http://www.shootingatbubbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/pointless.jpg

Wow.u can sell debt here as well? wow.So in theory I can sell a debt of sum1 if I wanted to? Good idea.It helps keep things goin.

Welcome to System D. Let me introduce you to your new best friends, Money and Reputation...

The debt has been sold. This trainwreck of a thread is now over??

Lock it. :)