Bitcoin Forum

So, I was mining at bitcash.cz with 2gh and now I have been banned (hopping?)  I know there might others in the same boat. I rely on gtranslate to navigate the site, so any info on what happened would be much appreciated!  

Im trying to resolve this with the admin, my personal farm account is also banned with 40BTC in it.

This is quite absurd, once he told me that he doesnt want hoppers I removed my farm only to be welcomed with a banned account and taking my BTC hostage.

I can see him banning miners for hopping, fine. But since he is running a wallet service as well, it is not ok to simply confiscate peoples BTC as well by locking them out of their wallets

Ive allready let him know if he doesnt atleast allow the locked accounts to cashout the BTC then I will make sure his company get plastered as a scam and absolute thieving company all over the internet business forums.

Hes been warned and need to act on this and if he thinks he will simply steal coins hes about to meet his worse enemy that will crush his company's dreams.

I am mostly sick of the recent pools turning into straight-up thieves and this time I am involved in this and wont let it slip away.

Let's hope when this is resolved that the OP will change the thread title to reflect it.

Sounds like over-zealousness and poor judgement by the site owner.

How many pools have done this kind of thing?
Sam

This sucks

Btw, never heard about p2pool? No one can steal your btc on p2pool.

That is true.  P2P for the Win!

I agree with beef, Tito the Pool Op of BitScam.cz is actually stealing hashes and btc.  He should at least pay PPS and not be a jerk about it.  The payment system was shady from the get-go...why does this crap keep happening from pools/exchanges in eastern Europe?  

Should have guessed this was just another spam thread for p2ppool. Nice set-up though. Fooled me.

Stop taking those meds ;)

Back to the real issue, they did in fact steal coins.

It was self-defense, obviously :)

This. He doesn't need to pay out the amount you gained by hopping, but he at least needs to pay out the actual value of the work you provided. PPS seems to be a fair trade-off.

This is the risk you take when you join hoppable pools.

I believe he needs to pay out everything since he decided out of the blue that hopping isnt allowed anymore and simply banned and took the coins remaining to clear.

Its completely different than an obvious statement that hopping isnt allowed and then someone continues to hop where he then bans the user. This site made absolutely no notice about hoppers for multiple blocks and then suddenly over-zealously enforce it to enrich the site owner.

Yep, banned account here as well.  Bloody scammers.

Actually you are wrong.

All these scams, stealing and dishonest pool operators are what is advertising p2pool.

If they all were honest and no one scammed and stole, there would be no need for p2pool.

But since it seems we can't pass a week without a pool scam, i'll keep speaking about p2pool.

What other pools have done this kind of thing?
Sam

Well to name just 2 recent issues:

A1pool - dissapearing with coins
bitclockers - fudging stats and organofcorti showing relatively accurately that overall outcome is minus for all miners.

If A1pool disappeared with coins, that would be a scam.

I don't know how bitclockers even outright lying about stats can be thrown into the same category when asked "What other mining pools are stealing coins from users?".

Just say what's on your mind.

"There is no better mining pool than p2ppool and anyone wasting their time on anything else is an idiot".

Matthew you have some real issues, just had to make note of that.

No this thread isnt about p2pool, in fact I think p2pool is shit :)

I'm a Velociraptor. Although the guy dancing in my avatar does reflect my inner energy (although even I think he's insane when I look at him. I mean. just look at him. What is going through his mind when he dances like that. I mean, just wow. Wow.)

You obviously doesn't know/understand anything about P2Pool.

Sorry didnt mean to piss off the p2pool cult ;)

Still I am free to think its shit if I want, you can love it if you want ;)

I'm sure there will soon be a BIP to correct that ;)
Sam

Correcting think to drink? :P

Check your terms of service in his pool. If he has any kind of high functioning ability at all he used a boilerplate template agreement that includes language along the lines of:

18:  Pool operator reserves the right to modify any aspect of pool operation for any reason he deems necessary, including the adjustment of rewards systems, pay rates etc. Be advised that you are mining on an unregulated service run by someone you have never seen, and never will, who may or may not have morals and ethics like yours. Pool operator may use your hashes for whatever purpose he chooses, my change whatever he wants, and can hold any anticipated payout for as long as he deems necessary for whatever reason he chooses, without recourse. And if you say anything unpleasant about him in any public forum, all coins in your account are to be considered forfeit immediately as liquidated damages for the disparagement of the pool's character.

most hoppers already know about p2pool.

it's shit, in terms of income.


now, back to topic.
i guess the poolop kinda listens to the complaints of smaller miners there, and just banned most of the hoppers to set an example (?).

but withholding that much btc from the hoppers, well, we'll see how much longer they're gonna do that.

If this truly is in the TOS (and hasnt been recently changed) you had fair warning.
EDIT oops re-read what i quoted; "if" he had TOS, sorry, a lot of the post is still relevant tho :)

Long time ago I put my real picture as my avatar, I sign my posts with my real name and my companies details are easily accessable.
About the same time I pointed out miners were taking a risk mining on pools with anon nicks running them as unregistered businesses.... didnt I cop some flak for that... sheesh....oh well ;)
I really dont care what pools you use but please please do some due dilligence before sending hashes thier way. There are getting to be way too many threads like this :/

TNTmining.com/A1 made me lol so much, showed just how gullable a lot of miners are. I mean he was back in like a few days? I guess as prop pools get fewer and fewer hoppers are getting more and more desperate for *any* prop pool, they will risk large losses to gain a few % lol

Its a shame nearly every thread has to deal with p2pool spam - even if it is way off topic.
If I wasnt running a pool I would *propably* mine on p2pool, it is a great idea, but it is not a complete solution - pools still have a valid place in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Even if the p2pool fanbois dont see it :)

my 2satoshi's worh
Best of luck with this issue ,
Graeme Tee
Managing Director,
Ozcoin Pooled Mining Pty Ltd

All banned accounts where banned when bitHopper proxy or other hopping automation software was detected.

Accounts were blocked for warning for 48 hours. Spread the word - you can't steal from longtime members even if you think you have the right. Its not right its privilege.

How can you register and agree to TOS and comply with members netiquette when you don't understand language?

Learn that running Proportional distribution pool simply is not free ticket for pool hoppers.

I have already enough of your threatening and racketeering... You have acted against the rules, you have stealed coins from our longtime members using banned software and I've already enough evidence on racketeering to support our cause and sue you in every court (even in your south africa). So stop this FUD, withdraw your funds, go away and more importantly: spread the word that Hopping is not right or rightful. Its just stealing. And if you don't comply to rules you agreed to, you have to start your own pool...

Pardon me, you already have one... Full of stealers... With this attitude you will be having only problems... anywhere you will mine...

You will ensure our services go down?

I already got it...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60717.300
Do you think this will make a living for you?
Just bad karma nothing more... :)

Hopper = Racketeer = DDOS

Really nice attitude from you guys :)

Thanks for doing the right thing, I even offered to remain with a portion of my farm at your pool but then you acted like robocop and simply tried to take all of our funds.

You can have all the evidence in the world of my threats, it came after you stole coins from me(and others) so I would have a blast in your imaginary court since you would simply drag your own theft into this. At the end of the day I accomplished what I wanted, my mined coins paid out so I have no more dog in this fight.

Good day sir.

I didnt notice at first you released the coins, so no we are square now and you owe me nothing.

That said, none of this would have happened if you didnt act like an overzealous idiot the first time around.

I don't give a damn what you think about me (I'm just protecting our local community of miners) .. Stick to facts... You have acted AGAINST our TOS. We have the right to BAN you anytime. Your racketeering can't change this. You owe us apology for stealing.

Well your are talking crap, you never had anything in your ToS about hopping when I signed up. You adapted and changed the terms when you felt like it without any outgoing email notice that you modified the ToS.

That my friend is in essence illegal if you were a legitimate company.

Anyhow, Im done dealing with you, have fund fixing your bad publicity cause of how you handled this situation from the start.

Anyhow, carlos returned the coins he held hostage so I believe this thread should get updated with "Issue resolved" since its not SCAM worthy anymore.

It seems there's still a lot of misunderstanding about what a proportional pool is:


At a proportional pool, the amount you earn in total by mining strategically is exactly the value of the work you provided. Anything else and it can't truthfully advertise itself as a proportional pool. Maybe a better name would be "Fulltime proportional" or "PPS/Prop hybrid" something.

You know, p2pool is an anti-hop pool. So yes, using p2pool for hopping is a bad idea.
Another advantage of p2pool  ;)

that's why it's shit.

By your logic, so is Ozcoin, EMC, Eligius, and any other hopper proof pool. Fine. Obviously you don't give a rat's ass about anything more than profit, so shut the fuck up and keep hopping the prop pools, making them go out of business, and pushing the way towards hop-proof payout methods. That way everyone wins.

correct. i don't give any slightest fuck at all.

however, the difference between those pools and p2pool, the supporters aren't as annoying.

Scammers and hoppers are much more annoying.

That's not that bad of an idea.

I like you Starlightbreaker. You ever come to Ukraine, I buy you shot of vodka.

haha, sounds like a plan.  :P

Admin just stole about 42.000 shares from my last round. I was NOT hopping this time.
I have the proof but what can we do..nothing..
SCAMMER!!

Yes, you can do something... Don't mine with a thief! Take your hashes some place else and let this pool die.

I don't understand all of the negativity directed ONLY towards Pool Hoppers and none back towards the Miners that choose to be a part of a PROP Pool ?

Obviously everyone that uses a PROP Pool service knows the risks, AS WELL AS THE POTENTIAL REWARDS...otherwise, no one would mine on one.
I think it's fair to say that if Hoppers are being labelled as SCAMMERS, then willing PROP miners should be labelled IDIOTS.

Unfortunately this is the world we live in and I can't help but be reminded of Anti-Smoking Legislation that has come into effect around the world.
(ie. You can't smoke in a Pub because of the 'danger' to Non-Smokers......BUT NO ONE IS FORCING THE NON-SMOKERS TO BE THERE ?)

Again, everyone involved is aware of the potential risks, but choose to be a part anyway, then cry about it when an "I Told You So" situation comes to fruition.

The 'Sheep' shouldn't automatically get a pass and earn the 'victim' tag in every situation.....

Again, a great example of the world we all live in.

obviously not...
A *LOT* of new miners see "Proportional" and think its a fair payout system (which it would be if it wasn't exploitable), not everyone does the research to see that it is in fact a flawed system that will cost them in the long run. As miners study and realise they move to fairer payout schemes....

Calling names isn't really beneficial to anyone.
Shame more people don't do their research before leaping in, most new pools start as prop, most new miners start as prop... often on the "biggest" pool.

It's a good thing I did my reserach before joining a new pool.I have a good experience with my current pool (ozcoin). PPS and ozcoins model is better for me that any prop pool used to give me so I'm very happy with getting more for my efforts. I feel sorry for those who got scammed by a bad pool operator.

You are talking to a stone wall. I tried convincing people to stop mining proportionally a year ago
& they would just give their stupid rationale of "I have my freedom of choice and I think this is the best model".

Let them lose money to scammers, or should I say 'predators'. It's the natural order in the real world, it apparently applies in bitcoin world too: Stupid people lose.

Just want to bump this thread to warn about these scammers.
My account shows a value for "shares in current round" that has been constantly revised down and now appears to be slowly falling to nothing.
From slightly over 11000 submitted shares (so thankfully not that many) it's now showing 651 in this round, where it should be more like 10000, and falling fast.

Avoid this pool for a whole variety of reasons.

I have been watching this pool for a while.  You have to mine consistently, the pool op makes sure hoppers don't leave or they risk loosing all there shares. 

It is a traditional prop pool that is managed well...

It's not actually a proportional pool, managed well or otherwise. If a miner is not paid for the proportion of shares you've submitted, then it's not a proportional payout.

I can agree with you on those points.  The pool has been crashing lately.  43% hopping is dead.   However, the pool is still mined and carlos won't ban you and steal your shares unless you hop out and don't return before the start of the next block.  So, if you pull half of your hashing power on the long rounds or mine at 100% intermittently you won't have any problems. 

Call it proportional with a gross hopping penalty?