Bitcoin Forum

Interesting article with a very surprising end (related to Bitcoin see last 2 paragraphs)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/10978178/The-dollars-70-year-dominance-is-coming-to-an-end.html

Interesting article and claims I think the guy isn't very intelligent though.


I don't see the dollar coming to an end for at least another 70+ years.  The claims the guy making are based on history which isn't a terrible thing to base it on.  But judging from 70 years ago today the world is a completely different place and anything related to money then holds little value to what we have today.

Yea I think the dollar and other fiat currencies have still got a long life ahead, though I think something like the dollar could collapse or lose a lot of its value eventually.

Most of us will probably not be alive when the dollar collapses so it's not going to make much difference to us.

How is this a bitcoin discussion, when it relates to the dollar? Probably should move to off-topic.

Anyways there are a lot of signs of the collapse of the dollar. Several nations are circumventing using the dollar as the standard for trade. The US is also printing like crazy right now because we have been through several QE. How long do you think the debt ceiling can rise before it defaults?

It already collapsed

1971 Milk .51 cents Gal USD in USA on gold standard

1971 Nixon Leaves Gold Standard

2014 Milk 4.50 Gal USD compare that to .0072 btc

People gonna love BTC and low numbers

Wow milk is only .00000001 btc soon

haha

They call them revolutions because average people don't see them coming. I like his terse writing style, it's refreshing. He does tend to use run on sentences.

I agree with much of what he says, especially about Bitcoin becoming a reserve currency.

Yeah don't get me wrong, he made a lot of great points in there...However I will say that I don't believe he is 100% correct in trying to predict what will happen to the dollar.

I think bitcoin is around to stay...I don't have the high claims of it will be around 100,000 per bitcoin(hey I would love to be wrong on that one)  but I think it will stabilize, more and more companies will start accepting it and hopefully I will continue to collect a lot of good coin:)

I've said for almost 40 years now the USD isn't a fiat currency it's the Worlds Police Nuke Dollar

USA has big nuke stick and it polices the world.

Now Russia and China have big nuke sticks too, but both governments suck worse than the USA's

How about btc relocates to cayman islands

Then btc can have an area off limits to US police powers.

Stuff and nonsense.

I'll go one better: I believe central banks WILL include cryptocurrencies (plural) in their reserves (plural).

Make no mistake, behind the scenes the powers that be are formulating systems to make bank (pun intended) on this newfangled experimental money thingie (Bitcoin, et al.) seeing how they can fatten their wallets further, thus allowing the Twins to test the waters.

I say in less than 5 years we'll see existing and start-up companies creating regulated pre-mined altcoins for the sole purpose of generating funding, with said alts traded similarly to how stocks and commodities are traded today. That one key difference is that the altcoins/stocks/shares can be bought/sold/traded sans any exchange of which they'll also be located on, something that's a bit difficult to do with common stocks.

Can you say CC*Trade Financial Corporation (purhaps styled CC*TRADE)? Them guys aren't goin' to miss the boat on this next wave, let alone the new guys entering the market directly outta Harvard, Yale, and...wait for it...MIT.

It's good to see usd melting against btc everyday.
I invest my usd in btc i know it will rise.

Meh, I still think it's going to take a while for the dollar to die out. Before that even happens, a new currency has to start. Sure we can use online things like bitcoins, but people still like to carry around hard money. It's almost a sort of prize for them for working and earning that money. You can't carry money if you just have bitcoins.

I think there are two different ideas people have when talking about "death of the dollar."  One is that it will lose its status as being used for most transactions around the world.  The second is that it's use will become obsolete due to something like Bitcoin, or going to a barter economy.  

yep BRICS are thinking of taking over the reserve currency part

and bitcoin can take over the paypal/visa/mastercard part, well maybe if they raise the block limit to 5mb and have a 2 minute blocktime with only 5btc per block (to keep things even)

giving bitcoin 25x more transactions per second possibility (was 7 could be 175)

Well I wouldn't exactly call this 'failed'. It's just good old inflation. Happens. The wages also increased over time. But hey, if you're right we could swim in milk all day long. Poor cows!

The dollar could not be world reserve currency between tomorrow and whenever, so maybe one day.

This is why most of us is here, hoping btc will replace dollar.
If the growth continues exponentially like in the last years, our dreams will come true.

All of you against the dollar, pour it into my bank account now. I am calling you out and prove it with your actions that you truly believe dollar is going down the drain, and you are willing to back up your stance instead of slinking back again when things don't turn out the way you want them to.

No? Why do you want to hold a bunch of worthless papers?

BTC won't replace anything - it will be replaced itself by something else.

Yeah, but it won't happen. No growth can be sustained forever! Also, I believe it's a tad delusional to think that bitcoin will actually replace the dollar. I guess it'll find it's place somewhere alongside regular FIAT currencies and the current banking system.

Sorry, we're pouring it into Bitcoin. Try trolling those nice Dogecoin or Litecoin folks.

Heh, that was a really good response to that statement.

How is it now obvious the dollar is set to collapse? Everything is in place, all we need are for countries to start realizing that the dollar is worthless (Which is already happening, some countries' banks are pouring their USD into gold) and send it back to the US, causing a massive deflationary cycle and the collapse of the dollar.

Most countries buying gold are either;
1) Morons, cause the dollar will "NEVER" collapse
2) Building up other ways to store value
3) Trying to find a way to maintain value through a dollar collapse

So it is very possible that they are doing any of the mentioned scenarios, but I believe that it has to do with the look of the dollar right now.

Yes, since the dollar is not actually alive obviously this term is used as hyperbole.  I think that most people predicting the "death of the dollar" are actually taking about a short period of significant super-exponential value loss or by a similar reduction in use world-wide.  Basically if you went on vacation for a few weeks, you'd come back to a thing still called the "dollar" but in practice it would be a totally different beast.

Since QE has basically had the effect of backing USD with mortgages, in the case of an international "run" on dollars the US Federal Reserve will be left with the unenviable position of choosing to let the value of the dollar fall dramatically or choosing to sell all those mortgages to overseas investors.  But of course there will be less value-in-houses available than dollars printed b/c organizations like the Fed and the govt do not produce value.  So it is more likely that the FED will have redeem a lot more dollars for the backing mortgages -- that is, a sudden loss of dollar purchasing power and massive paper profits for the FED which by law will go to the US government to pay off the deficit.

The big losers in this game will be everyone with USD-denominated instruments, including salaries, and the big winners will be USD-denominated liabilities (mortgages for example).

Bitcoin coming a begining.

I finally had a chance to read this today and I thought it was a nice article.  I'm not sure the dollar is doomed but it was nice to see bitcoin get a shout out towards the end of the article.

While it is clear that commerce is moving away from the USD, it is less clear what it is moving towards.  Maybe we are looking at no reserve currency, after all the RMB isn't even freely convertible yet.

The BRIC nations do hold vast reserves in dollars.
So they do have a vested interest in ensuring that the dollar does not decline.
The decline of the dollar, if it does happen, will happen very gradually.

Companies are already doing that.

Actually, if you are still in adult age, you will most likely still be alive to see the next great war.

For those who are 60+, they may be lucky and be gone before that happen.

I think even the people who are 60+ will see a big war before they die....

Things are not exactly looking the greatest right now

Yes I agree with this.
I think not just dollar as currency but whole USA economy is loosing top position in world market and very soon China will replace USA on the top.
In the future I think that BRIC nations will lead the world because of their resources and human power.
 

Inflation happens with fiat (non-backed) currencies. Until FDR started and later Nixon finished taking the US off the gold standard, it didn't just happen.

That is one advantage of bitcoin - there is no stealth tax taking money from you and giving it to politicians and other powerful people.

I'd debate the possibility of that.

Mostly because the US is going down the hole, how in the world would they be able to go and fund a large war of any kind? They're also decreasing their military spending and sending the MRAAPS or whatever they are (I'm Canadian so I only see this stuff here and there) to local police forces. If anything, they're expecting a civil war, not a large international war.

Ukraine won't have anything come out of it. It was the same for Syria, then North Korea, then and still currently Ukraine, and then Iran. It will be covered, big speeches assuring American freedom and #1 country safety and international investigations, then it will slowly fade from the news unless something else happens (Like MH17, Ukraine was almost out of the air waves and Iran was taking it's place) that causes more hype.

There may very well be another war, but it won't be a nukefest or total war (Well, it could); it will be smaller wars or civil wars.

Just my opinion.

You know how I would handle things like the Middle East conflict and all that shit in the Balkans?

Given the power, I'd set arbitrary boundaries and tell the goofy bastards to fight it out but if they make one step outside of the boundaries, I'd fry their asses with the worst sort of weaponry imaginable short of nukes.

If they got nukey with things I'd turn the whole place into glass for the betterment of the rest of the world.

The dollar still has a long time left yet regardless of the situation now. 70+ years sounds about right for how long it has left to be honest however what is to say anything will replace it? 70+  years is a long time yet and we never know what kind of currencies may be available then.

We live in the modern and information age. Everything will happen faster the government able to respond. If you think it will take 70 years for it to end, it will probably happen in 10 years or so.

I think what everybody is expecting is that suddenly there will be some gigantic collapse of the dollar and boom everything dies suddenly people have a hard time buying food and somehow BTC is priced at $1M per coin.

I don't think that's whats going to happen.

I think there's going to be a deflationary spiral first, a crash in things like Gold & even potentially foreign currencies, maybe even BTC. This could be caused by many things considering how fragile everything is, but I'm willing to bet some big financial entity will go bust, that will start it. People will get used to working with few $s because there won't be many of them around to work with because we're in deflation. But the government doesn't like deflation, so it will buy up all the bad assets, effectively serving to forgive lots of debts. When those debts are forgiven, then there won't be any guaranteed demand for USD, and with the inherent shortage of everything caused in the time just after a crash, THAT'S what will cause the hyperinflation. Because, recessions are like a bubble, in the value off money, that's what deflation is. Like all bubbles, money bubbles pop. Only, since we're using USD, with no value, that bubble never needs to revert to the mean; the mean is 0.

That's how the dollar will end, probably. And it probably will take at least 8 years before the deflationary phase, and 2 years in the deflationary phase before hyperinflation starts.

That is 10 years for our elected representatives to fix the system.
Hope they don't screw up things for that long.

Yeah you cant beat fiat currencies.

There are more and more econmists that warns about possible collapse of dollar, and it looks like american economy doesnt have very bright future... also it seems like Russia with China and India, would be more than happy if dollar colapse, and it looks like they already strated doing some steps to help with it.

They have started taking steps to reduce dependence on the dollar.
Looking at the amount of dollars they hold, it would be a disaster for them if the dollar collapses overnight.

That is not new news. The BRICK (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) just opened the largest bank to facilitate exchanges in currencies other than the dollar. UK just signed the largest trade deal with China...Usually, those will be done using USD but will be using China's Renminbi for the first time. Russia also signed the largest energy bill with China and they will be using Renminbi and Russian ruble! The dollar is DONE!

i don't think so

it won't happen ever

FIATs have come and gone through history countless times. Of course the dollar ending means the empire ending. I don't see this happening anytime soon.

You'd be surprised how fast it may be coming to an end.

2nd fattest country, large unemployment, massive debt that is about 200 trillion after commitments and other benefits are paid (With a current 17 trillion in "active" debt), populace unwilling to work, lots of the country on food stamps and welfare, immigrants coming across the border to take jobs, goofy government, enemies everywhere, etc.

I can see the fall start happening in 25 years, but the entire collapse would take about 12 years. So you should have time to get out...

100 years ago, Great Britain was supreme. It was quickly surpassed by the US.
It wouldn't take long for the balance to tilt again.

Doesn't mean GBP came to an end or collapsed.   Just replaced as the world reserve

Which was shocking for the GBP and caused a lot of problems for a while.

Dethroning of a currency isn't just "Oh something else is now valued as '1'". It causes lots of problems for the currency because value will likely drop, as well as everyone having to calibrate their currencies to the new rate. Britian wasn't doing so well when it was taken off the reserve. In today's day and age, that shift could possibly be catastrophic.

If Bitcoin continue grows this can be true.

What currency would take its place immediately?

I know BTC works for us but the World's governments aren't going to just adopt it...

For those of you who think the dollar is coming to an end ,I will gladly trade you all my bitcoins for dollars, well over the exch rate:)

Probably the Chinese Yuan.

Yeah, the governments aren't just going to accept Bitcoin being placed as the reserve. It will be far more lengthy and complex to get it to the status, unless the change happens a long time in the future. Bitcoin would have to be pretty widely accepted at that point.Alright. We'll see how much your dollars are worth later.

They would be spent, so they would be worth nothing:)  I am trying to pay off my student loans so I don't have to pay them off the next 20 years of my damn life..

You would almost certainly be better off carrying them and buying bitcoin instead.

it does not really mean anything to me, so far is not bitcoin.

You have no idea just as much as I have no idea:)  Plus paying off loans early you save so much money in interest...

What if the US decides to tax the crap out of Bitcoins in the future, what if BTC plummets to less than a dollar per BTC.  When I am pumping money into my loans and paying them off early it is the only thing guaranteed to save me money.

It's better to pay off your loans ASAP IMO, Bitcoin can wait. Not to spread fear, but Bitcoin is pretty unpredictable, so everything could go well, or very, very bad.

The US can't tax Bitcoins, they can only tax the fiat exchanges. Since Bitcoin is decentralized, and pseudo-anonymous, actually tracking owners would be a pain. A huge pain. And as companies start accepting Bitcoin for basic necessities, they'll have a harder and harder time enforcing taxes on the public...

i think thath bank can maybe come up with their own currency before dollar collapse or bitcoin take off

Agree. Leverage is risky. It is better to pay off your loans, and have a small position in bitcoin.

they've been saying this for ages now  ???

Yeah, well... It's primed for a collapse. This isn't your standard fear mongering, this is legitimate. The entire economy believes it, and countries are preparing for a collapse of the USD.

yeah but when? thats the thing, we going on liket his for ages.

Max 20 years.

The gravy train is primed to end, and China isn't happy with the USD. Plus, BRICs is launching soon...

So the US politicians have 20 years to correct this situation.
Reasonable time to prevent a crisis, I would say

It's not going to be an easy 20 years and it will become increasingly difficult as time goes on...

The death of the dollar is would only bad for the USA if it weren't for the fact that many other world powers have adopted the same nonsense. World economies are bound by a form of "natural selection" where the strong survive and the weak perish...

Fiat is like a plague, and the powers of the world voluntarily infected themselves. Now it's up to nature to do what nature does...

Yes, the other world powers have adopted it. Once a barrel of oil stops being denominated in USD, I guess you could say the dollar's hegemony is over.

The desmiss of the Dollar will be great for other countries and other currencies because they will not have to pay the price of the US Dollar being the reserve currency; the US will not accept the end of the egemony of the Dollar easily : wars, manipulations and lies will be out but let's hope it won't end up in a nuclear war

Really captivating write up but the Dollar isn't depreciating that fast.

Wtf is this...

Yeah, if you live in the United States, and are using the USD as your main currency, or are on welfare/foodstamps/whatever, the dollar collapsing would be a massive and shock to the populace, as the value with plummet, prices would go up, and most of the world economy would be screwed.

China has gold, US has little. Fort Nox isn't loaded like it once was, it's pretty empty now.

"Real" money, according to your government, is the paper money. Gold has no place as real money, according to gov'ts. It's just a means of taxation and storing value.

The dollar collapsing will affect everything, especially people with a minimal education.

Spelling will be a valued trait in the future, especially in America. Judging by the education system, it will continue to be valuable for many years.

The dollar collapsing will force the US to correct its trade deficit.
In the long run, that is probably good for the world. :D

That's the real question I don't think anyone would be able to predict the end of USD and I don't think it's going to be for many many years.

The dollar will not come to an end until long after the US empire comes to an end. Look at England for example; their empire collapsed hundreds of years ago and the British Pound is still very strong and widely used, in fact it is still a major currency.

This is the most naive comment I have ever seen.

If you would read a majority of the thread, you would have seen why the dollar will collapse BEFORE you are dead. It will affect you plenty.

Please, go read the thread.

The thread has been entire speculation...how is him saying it from a different view point of yours making him naive? 

I am not supporting his case I just don't see in how seeing a different side other than you is "naive"

I mean his statement about how everyone will be dead, and it won't affect us. That is the naive part I am referring to.

Even if it is speculation, that's like someone saying "A meteorite will be crashing into the earth soon, but we'll all be dead by then, so it wont affect us."

I will agree, however, that a majority of the thread is speculation. However, posts like that are just "I'll make a post here..." and they don't have any explanation as to why they think that way.

hmm....Isn't that the point of the forum to make a post if you agree/disagree with something?  To have a chat about what you think is right/wrong and to discuss ideas? 

I guess with your example if someone made a topic of "When will a meteorite crash into earth" and someone posted"It doesn't matter we would be dead anyway"

I would say that is a relevant post because it pertains to the topic...he could have maybe gone into more detail about why he thinks that but still...

Dollar value will go down, no doubt. Saying it will end is over exaggerated.

UK lose its empire a hundred years ago and pound is still around.

dollar will not die in the short term
it is a really valued currency,and the most important is that USA will not let it go down

The reason bitcoin has value is because of the network effect.

USD has even greater network effect than bitcoin. Saying it will come to an end is just brainless.

What is in this thread is mostly speculation and generally not backed up by facts. It would be unprecedented for the dollar to fall from where it is now to "come to an end" in just one generation. The british pound is still a major currency several generations (~300 years) after it's empire collapsed. The greek economy flourished for a long time after it's empire collapsed.   

I think the dollar is coming to an end very slowly, it will take some more money printing and the government is doing a really good job at killing the dollar.

I think the dollar may have a few more decades to go, the thing with the dollar is that it is not based on market economics if it was it would already be dead, it is based on guns and oil, and thats the real reason the Dollar has survived for so long.

In future oil prices are going to skyrocket and that will put a dent in the dollar, and then if not BRICS someone else will step up with the guns to challenge the dollar.
As oil skyrockets expect a few more wars, as more wars take place the dollar get inflated to fund those wars, as the dollars gets inflated there will be incentives to get out of the dollar, but the dollar is backed by guns so no one gets out, until someone has better guns and then its game over.

A true economy can not be backed by guns, and soon as someone else has better guns the economy collapses.

When this happens expect Bitcoin to be over $10k, but it is going to get very ugly when the dollar collapses.

The reason the Zimbabwe dollar collapsed is that they did not have the guns or oil, only the printing presses.
 

When someone else has better guns, then the backing of the dollar is lost, and its game over.
It will be a few decades.
If it is not BRICS then someone else it is a matter of time.

Of course the government could prevent that by stopping the printing presses, but they will not do that.

not the dollar. its dominance, because of the other strong currencies. its also not saying that its the end of the dollar

I would also highly doubt that the dollar will collapse for the very same reasons. I would hope that other currencies like bitcoin would become more commonly use in trade, potentially to levels that would eclipse other major currencies. However it is very difficult to make huge impacts on levels of currency trade.

It is not a question of if the Dollar will collapse but when because it can't not collapse; it could have been saved 20years ago and maybe 10years ago but now the collapse will happen no matter what

If this is true then it would likely take a very long time, longer then our grandchildren will likely be alive. The precursor for the dollar to collapse would be for the American empire to finish collapsing and even then it would take centuries for the dollar to collapse. However the American empire has really not even started to collapse as of yet.

Yeah, but it won't happen. No growth can be sustained forever! Also, I believe it's a tad delusional to think that bitcoin will actually replace the dollar. I guess it'll find it's place somewhere alongside regular FIAT currencies and the current banking system.

Why do you say this? What is difference now then 20 or 10 years ago? If anything the dollar has become more widely used and stronger when compared to other currencies.

Yeah, but the buying power of a dollar has decreased insanely:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mAg6FMpNGpM/Ta9ICcEMonI/AAAAAAAABBM/UoQG8vxtBX0/s1600/U.S.%2BDollar%2BPurchasing%2BPower.jpg

Its that much more insane that bitcoin doesnt have more support from those searching for ideal store of value.

Whenever a major currency/economy collapses this will be the first time an acceptable alternative has presented itself. Trust in fiat will be low once the dollar or other major currency falls, I'm pretty sure bitcoin will see a huge boost when this happens. It may not become the official currency but it will still become a major currency that you would not really want to be without.

It will take some time yet before the US Dollar comes to an end. What we are witnessing right now with the BRICS movement is the official "The Good Days are Over" swan song being played by the orchestra. How the US reacts to this inevitability is what interests me the most right now.

Currently, the dollar is simply too big to fail. It's an interesting article though, for sure!

Who can bail out the dollar? Too big to fail means it will be bailed out in the event of a failure; so who would bail the dollar out?

Dollar dominance is actually been affected by the strong economic booming from the eastern countries like china. This people are also thinking of doing international businesses with their local currencies because people all over the world now patronizes their manufactured products.

How come dollar would come to an end?Either dollar come to and end or not stupidity must come to an end

Coming to an end is overly exaggerated.

Losing the reserve currency status and a large portion of the value are not the end of the world.

In fact, it will help US to start fresh rather than keep defending the empire which will eventually fall apart. British Empire, was actually smart to let countries become independent as the cost of managing them outweigh the economic benefit.

Just as rome could and would never ever fail..

They started shrinking their borders...  letting lands they controlled go..  

Russia and the BRICs no longer are under any sort of ecom control from Merica and friends.

Iran is starting to bypass the USD, the US did not invade.

They have completely lost control of Iraq.

They could not pressure Ukraine into their bidding.


Their out skirts are crumbling...

I hope it fucking crashes for all i care. This shits disguting.

This is more worst than the end of the world prediction. such an unrealistic idea

The USD will still be in circulation long after BTC has dropped to twenty cents.

Check this delusional man right there.

I think there are enough people who will bet their net worth on bitcoins when it reaches single digits in USD.
So unfortunately, BTC ain't gonna drop to 20 cents.

The dollar is in a slow decline that I doubt will be stopped because nobody seems to care enough to do what has to be dont to stop it. America is going downhill for sure.

USD and EUR = FUBAR in 2050

The debts are big and nations start using other means of trade than dollars

This, do the math and check at the graphs. By the time 2050 arrives, € and $ will be so devaluated that it will be fucking pointless to own any of it. Now, Asia money will take the lead, and smart people will have put at least half of their assets in BTC. You'll be able to at least buy a small flat with 1 BTC by then.

The rest of the world (who have large reserve holdings, in their reserves) seem to be more concerned about the USD, than America itself.  ;D

Yeah,dollars and fiats have a long life still while anything could replace them.They could loose their weight but not disappear

I'll drink champagne when fiats collapse.

Paid for with bitcoin?  ;D

Dollar will coexist with bitcoins in the future, but it won't be replaced by a criptocurrency.

I disagree with this. Yes inflation will eat away at the value of both the euro and the dollar, but people do not hold onto cash for 30 plus years as an investment.

If you hold Bitcoin for 30 years the amount of shit you'll be able to buy with only 1 BTC will give you a brain aneurism.

30 years... The temptation to sell each time an All Time High is reached will be great.

During this time you will also have your money tied up and would be unable to spend it. You need to take into consideration the cost of having your money tied in up bitcoin during this time.

Most people would sell some after x10 and then after x2 ect.

Maybe you can imagine a system where a third party won't give you back your bitcoin or safe deposit box where your paper wallet is for a set number of years but you would take a counter party risk

Whats the problem? you can buy with BTC directly, it will be accepted worth wide, no need to "cash out"

Both EUR and USD are going down, is set in stone.

I would say the problem is that you can not spend this bitcoin on things like a car or any other goods/services that you would otherwise want to buy while you are waiting for the price to appreciate over this 30 year period.

I am waiting for the day BTC-denominated investments are easily available. Then just put your bitcoins into a low-risk instrument for 30 years.

There are many btc-denominated investments available on security forum. Problem is most of them are borderline scam or run by inexperience operators.

FIFY

I would highly recommend against "investing" your money in anything in the securities section of the forum. You are just asking to lose your money if you do this. I think it would be a better bet to put your money in something like bitfinex swaps and renew the swaps when they expire. You should remember to periodically monitor them to make sure there are no signs of trouble.

Why is it that many of the people here wants dollar dead?

It is normal to hate rigged scam systems, like the USD and EUR ones.

Because that is very good for bitcoin?

There are a lot of factors to consider. How about the people with no btc? Dollars downfall will create chaos for sure.

World war 3 might happen if dollar will fall.

maybe 40% of the bitcoin users wants to incash their btc. Why do they want it to be dead?

And Bitcoin coming to a begining.

If you want to cash your btc you can sell easily


Dollar will fail; we have to protect ourselves

Yeah, this is where it becomes difficult to predict what will happen.

Protection isn't a simple "Hide my wallet away on a USB and it'll be fine, I'll just tell people I have none." You are looking at protecting entire infrastructure, such as the internet itself. The dollar collapsing will end up with huge power grabs in the chaos that would ensue, possibly, and so things as delicate as the internet would have to be very well protected. And I don't mean the main servers, I mean every other piece related to it, like routers, ISP servers housings, all that stuff.

I'm torn between physical assets and Bitcoin, to be honest. Bitcoin has amazing potential, but if the internet goes down, which has a likely possibility if the dollar would collapse, then it becomes far less valuable. Physical assets will likely often be used and accepted if the internet goes down, but then you'd be missing out on Bitcoin in the event the internet doesn't fall...

It's just getting close, 2050 guy is spot on.

not with the BRIC ... they have already more than the FMi in reserve.

They would exchange it for real goods & services, not necessarily fiat. :)

The Dollar can fail but internet will survive it! Having only bitcoins and nothing else is obviously very risky, having other assets, skills, friends, two passports, maybe food gasoline and alcohol if you think it will really go sour

1 million dollars will buy you one mcdonalds in a couple years.

You should remember that low risk usually means low reward. There are a few low risk options right now that you can invest in, for example in swaps at bitfinex or investing in the bankroll at gambling sites (although there are very few if any sites that allow this now). The problem with investing in securities that are designed to last for this long is that although they may be low risk today, in a few months or a few years they may appear to be more risky and it would be expensive to get your money out of the investment when that happens

This is an issue that I am interested.
   The BRIC nations do hold vast reserves in dollars.
So they do have a vested interest in ensuring that the dollar does not decline.
The decline of the dollar, if it does happen, will happen very gradually.

ads: VinaHost là công ty cung cấp dịch vụ thuê chổ đặt máy chủ (http://vinahost.vn/cho-dat-may-chu.html) và thuê máy chủ (http://vinahost.vn/may-chu-rieng.html) và thuê máy chủ ảo (http://vinahost.vn/gioi-thieu-cong-nghe-cloud.html) và hoting cá nhân (http://vinahost.vn/hosting.php) và dịch vụ email hosting và đăng ký tên miền (http://vinahost.vn/vndomain.php) lưu trữ website chuyên nghiệp với hơn 8 năm kinh nghiệm trên thị trường Việt Nam và Bắc Mỹ.

BRICS already leaving the dollar

I find it rather coincidental that the BS in the Ukraine started about the time russia started making plans to back off the petrodollar. We all know how well that worked out for Saddam. I think "weapons of mass destruction" might have been a typo - maybe they meant "weapons of mass economic destruction" .

I also find recent ISIS beheading of those two aid workers from the UK coincidental. There is pretty much no way that the UK can not do something now. Had ISIS taken US aid workers I doubt this "war" would have had any real support outside the US.

All of this seems like the banksters trying to use war to hold off the coming devaluation of the dollar or even worse a crash of the london usd derivatives market. Also, the strangle hold JP Morgan and friends have on the silver market is starting to unravel.


/end half informed tinfoil hat rant.

what will rapers rap about when dollar collapses?

Bitcoin and rap are not too correlated at the moment https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bitcoin+rap

The American Black community is not using Bitcoin as much as the White?


Brics are leaving the USD and the next coming years will see those who produce, save and live within their means get rewarded; those who live in credit, well, you know what will happen to them, they will find excuses  to their problems

Not possible.. Dollar will always be there. If dollar will collapse, everyone will collapse. The internet will collapse, bitcoin will collapse, all establishment will collapse.

Internet will not collapse if the Dollar collapse and the establishment always end up collapsing only to be replaced by an other establishment

You know there is a world outside the USA out there and they are smarter, work harder, save more and produce more than the states?

Tsunami not possible, that would distort the japanese society too much. Nope.

Agree.. But these guys couldnt speak a single english word!

The overall economic output of the US is greater then anywhere else in the world. The same is true for economic output on a per capita basis. The dollar has enough influence to prevent itself from falling by the wayside.

If the dollar were to collapse the internet and bitcoin may not collapse however the world would likely have very big problems on it's hands

And if the world will have a very big problems on its hands, they will not think anymore about bitcoin. They will think about survival. And bitcoin will not make them survive.

I think its all premature. America can print dollars for another 70 years, especially if there are major wars or conflicts somewhere.

They can print but the value will go down against all real assets, it already started there is a lot of inflation

Inflation is still less than 10% a year. As long as America is still a super power, it can get resources cheaply, thus keep price inflation low.

I don't think any of us will see the dollar end in our lifetime unfortunately.  In 200 years, yeah I could see the dollar going away but I don't think we will see anything before then.

Inflation may be a bit less than 10% a year but it is huge on some markets : look at the stocks price, shrinking of packages in the supermarket, health care or education


The FED will not be able to hold everything for much longer

Inflation is not measured by individual prices, but is rather a basket of prices of goods and services. Also 10% inflation is huge. A better gauge of high inflation is when inflation is running at ~3%-3.5%.

I dont think that it will huge like mentioned in post above.

More like to be max 6% but that is huge also.
Its hard to keep with all this considering that more and more thing are happen.
More and more companies are accepting btc more ATM all over the world.

Its hard to predict anything these days.

Let's be realistic for a second... bitcoin is inherently nerdy, too technical, it will never be cool to rap about bitcoin, therefore, dollar will always survive.

As i know
dollar remain strong over my currency (Rupiah)
instead my currency got weaker and weaker

How that possible if dollar coming to end  ;D  ;D

The Rupiah is doomed too.  ;D

If dollar goes down to 10% of its value, logically the BTC/USD rate should go up 10x (e.g. from $400 to $4000), but of course that's not what is going to happen. We will see people panicking to get out of the dollar - e.g. buy wares, property, or perhaps even coins

The US Dollar will lose 90% of its value in real assets by 2030

If the dollar loses status as the world's most reliable currency the United States will lose the right to print money to pay its debt. It will be forced to pay this debt.

It will not pay its debt.It will default. It can also print more money to pay its debt.

Dollar is 100% premined, unlimited number of coins, proceeds bomb children overseas, and it funds wars. One guy prints is all, at leasure without restraint, who want to speculate on where this coin is going?

Some people are saying : "bitcoin is ending"

btw, the ending is just the beginning

I think the dollar remains stable with a value up to now, in many countries, especially developing countries-countries, the dollar is still the primary medium for the foreign trade of a country, the stock market was still very stable value of the dollar, so I think if there is a rumor said the dollar would end, I think it will still be a very long time to happen ...  8)

I don't know if you've noticed or not but dollar has risen a lot this year, which has sent commodities crashing (like crude, gold, silver, coal, iron ore etc).

i would make a milk factory go wild with orders

That is true. But the rate at which bitcoin is being mined now (ie inflation) is lesser than the rate at which dollars are being printed now.

Dollars do not require "proof" of anything therefore an unlimited number of them can be printed. Fiat is very different from crypto currencies that have an exact amount of money that can be mined

It will still print but the value of the Dollar will go down


Nowhere!

Yeah... US Dollar is worth less every day because they keep printing more. There really aren't that many BTC to go around. Go and get them while they are cheap people!

One party ends. Another party begins.

There is 13.5 millions bitcoins and there will be 21 millions; if it will be widely use, the price could be 100 times the price it is Today at the current Dollar value

The dollar isn't going away any time soon. The problem is that the world (especially Americans ) are addicted to the dollar. Russia and China just simply insist on being America's antagonist no-matter what. They don't have allot of pull in the world and nobody wants them to. I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Russia is doing because they don't seem to be able to get it together. China is different. China has a massive recourse called one billion population but they see it as a hindrance rather than a recourse. The true hindrance in china is the government's strong desire to micromanage everything. Simply put; these guys combined efforts inst enough to compete with the dollar at great extent.

Not yet. It could happen but I don't see it happening yet. Although when it does happen, it's probably going to happen quite fast.

US is the Big country in this world , they will not let dollar become failured currency.
The only reason can make Dollar coming to end is Judgement day.

Judgement day as in terminator or in bible?

it could happen because many of its competitors dollars are used as currency in the world trade, such as the euro, yen, pound and others. it could shift the dominance of the dollar in the world so that the US dollar will eventually come to an end, people will use alternative currencies other than the dollar, but I think it is still a long time to happen because of the current world market still believe the US dollar as their trade transactions ...  ::)

The Yuan too. The Brazilian Central Bank just signed a new swap deal with the Chinese Central Bank

I don't think dollar would come to an end for another 50 years at least. Bitcoin is not that popular to take over.

The situation with the national fiats is inherently unstable, because as one currency is more used, it should increase in liquidity and therefore become more and more valuable, eventually swallowing all others. Only currency controls and inertia keeps the dollar from accruing all value in this day and age. Will bitcoin take on all value, or will the dollar first, bitcoin last?

Right now Bitcoin is not that popular but the Dollar will crash it should become more popular. The Dollar may not end soon but it will lose most its value as the number of Dollar in circulation increases and it becomes a smaller portion of exchanges and reserves in the world

if the value of your fiat is nothing but a mere perception of the public or people who use it.... and the media, tv etc controls there perception... How would they ever even know?

In fact you could experience an entire political and economical shift and you would never know. Simply because literally everyone perceived it that way.

take cars for example. If you went through the process to stamp out a proper metal or carbon fiber car, sure it would be strong, but these days it would cost a ton..

so maybe a strong metal/carbon car say cost= 50k.......... retail = 75k net 25k

plastic car with cheap (but flasy/cool) parts = 10k  ......... retail = 75k net 65k


Another thing that we will see very soon is basically the "insourcing" idea as portrayed in The Campaign film.

With all retail now shifting to alibaba (all online and domestic retail will seize to exist in 10-20+years) the only last cost to cut is shipping..

One they bring the factories to us we are done.

sure anyone involved and ahead of the political shift and curve will be well rewarded. But endless generations after them will not be. Beause flawless leveled structured socialism will be all thats left. It will be executed so well that most people will never even know the difference.

When I was in college they used to say if you work job A you will start at 40k/yr... after 2 years you will bump to 50k... 2 more years 50k 4 more years 80k etc etc...

is this not socialism at it's finest? Not only are you limited knowledge by requiring the finanaces/labor/debt to learn. But you're also saying that after you do learn x for y amount of years that this will essentially be your payment/reward plan... crazy

I am supprised to see that nobody has touched down on a silent type political shadow war. Who is to say that there will never be bloodshed starvation collapse etc in any major country? Who is to say that the wars will continue politically in the middle east through shadow corps while a smoke screen of socialism is pulled over our eyes....

Imagine an all out assault on everything to do with the united states economy. China and Russia with an all out assault. Cashing out all money at atm's, manipulating market, retail, technology, casinos with majority speaking madarin clearing out limitless funds making them bankrupt. Police accepting asians at mass numbers. Literally infiltrating every single organization as deeply and quickly as possible.

And dont even get me going on cyber attacks from china...

regardless those ahead of the curve should be rewarded. But the curve will be so steep so god only knows how many will get cut lose.

True, but if people all around the world keep accepting dollars no matter how many are created out of thin air.. what can stop it anytime soon?

All the "security" the government can give comes at a very high price and means some are going to be under paid and be less safe for some to enjoy the relative safety net.

Read this: http://www.gata.org/node/8303 and think Bitcoin again.

the main problem is the market cap. No matter how much we try it, it would be like vanishing a glass of water from a pond. But still it's pond and our Bitcoin id getting up there.

I don't know if I can agree with the article. The U.S. dollar is based on a debt system that itself is based on it's military and oil. When OPEC stops writing checks to the U.S. using U.S. dollars then I will be worried but until then I don't think I will bat an eye to these articles anymore. As long as the U.S. has it's military might to keep OPEC within it's grasp, the U.S. dollar will still be the worldwide currency. That's my belief at least.

Some OPEC countries start selling without using U.S Dollar if I am right (let me google it) and they could start doing more and more sells in other currencies, swap or Gold in the very near future.

I dont go in for conspiracies, the most powerful thing is natural trends, you can rely on this because its stronger then anyones opinion and it'll take down anybody no matter how powerful.    When a tide comes you cant avoid it, some things are just bigger and I think we all accept this on a personal level.   It also applies to countries, international trade and global bias that are in play now and in future.
  Humans as a people or species even do display trends and phenomena, not everything can be manipulated and managed, change is constant.   Economics should reflect all this but it does not, its (become) politically biased to the most powerful display in the room, it often ignores natural trends which are larger still.  Bigger then USA or OPEC, dollar all the things we know today can change and within ten years say which is pretty quick if the switch were to an Asian currency or wherever.

For example the bias on OPEC would be its main party which is Saudi Arabia.   They have great population growth which is causing their own consumption of oil to rise and effect their ability to influence external countries with their vital export.   A bigger theme then the sway from opec are themes within their own countries, this I think is much bigger then USA can help out for return favour.  At some point the situation becomes over extended and agreements collapse, more oil going to China at a higher price might be the path of least resistance.    

The working population within China is falling, this causes rises in their wages altering their ability to undercut other countries exports on low wages alone.   This might mean lower treasury debt holdings.   Naturally secondary developments and consequences occur,  I think these are the main reasons why dollar would fall.  Ultimately politics either foresees this change or fails under the strain of the inevitable

The retirement age for Chinese man is 60 and for woman is 55. It will be raised to 65 and old in the near future. So the working population will not decrease too much.

USD is getting stronger, gas prices going down in USA - meaning foreign currencies are declining in value - is this good for BTC?

Getting stronger according to who? Gas prices going down doesn't equals the dollar strengthening, and there are many currencies doing much better than the dollar. Which currencies are you talking about?

getting stronger where?

it's dying since ages

I think people put too much faith in the dollar and other fiats. They'll all be looking confused when the economy and currency collapses at some point in the future like they thought their 'strong' currency never would.

The FED, ECB and BOJ say clearly that they want to massively increase the money supply so they will probably do that until it's a total mess. It is easy to understand USD is one of the worst big currency to hold then EURO and Yen

It is already a mess, the main thing is when a majority of people realise this.  China is one of the largest holders of dollar debt but their people are not free to explore value of the dollar and their currency or national worth as party officials have a policy of supporting USA trade by a fixed exchange rate.
If I was some random Chinese person living on 2nd world goods I might spend a bit and upgrade my circumstances, if the whole nation did that it would mean many dollars stored as US treasury debt are spent globally.   That value would also go back to China instead of residing in the budgets of Washington accounts, it would alter many things.

Japan also has a strange situation where the country has debt a few times larger then the whole country makes total in a year.   Its certainly already a mess, but the velocity of this money is low and captured so we have a stagnant situation.   A healthy economy would be liquidate this value to better use but politics currently prevents it.   The people are placated by welfare spending and opacity of this lost value

When the economy slows down, central banks try to mint their way out of trouble. The problem is, other countries try to follow suit. In the end, exports/growth don't pick up in any country and all countries experience inflation.

All fiat currencies inherently suffer from this problem. Advantage Bitcoin!

Increasing the money supply is a sure way to get more troubles and run away inflation.

It's not dying. You can say "it's dying it's dying", but people will keep accepting dollars and that's all that matters. If it's used it's alive period.

The reality is more complicated: Central banks print 10x more money and buy out all the troubled assets in the country while still introduce very low or none inflation, since the sellers of those assets (commercial banks) simply put back their income money into FED's reserve account and don't touch those money, to ensure there will be no extra liquidity on market, thus no inflation

By doing this, they created a housing bubble and crashed it, drove people to default, took their house, and sold back to themselves using printed money. After several repeat, they own majority of the country's assets, dollar is not important any more for them, even the USD crashed, they have already get all those assets

It is really hard to discuss anything, if probably majority of people refuse simple facts like that one.

I believe dollar might die one day and very suddenly or it can be pegged to BTC or something like that. But one has to have balls (instead of brain) to tell nowadays that USD is dead or dying.

Exactly...
Bitcon should be the compliment of Fiat rather than a competitor
Cash - offline, Bitcoin - online
When people realise this, bitcoin will soon become used just like cash is today.

BTC can serve more like a reserve curency. Analogy to Latin American model, where they use USD as the reserve currency, because of it's stability and value. My girl is just heading to Paraguay, where USD is used this way, I will propose her to tell them a good joke about dead US dollar...

The idea was to avoid market crashes but they are just setting themselves up for a bigger blow-up.

All this " we are bitcoiners and we will defeat the mighty fiat monster" is kinda delusiona IMO, we should just provide an alternative, thats all.

Bitcoin has the potential to become big, very big, huge or even the main mean of exchange.

If it becomes big it will be valued 5000$/coin, very big 20,000$, huge 60,000$, main mean of exchange 200,000$ :P

I don't see the dollar coming to an end, many people in this world invest money in dollar..

Not only invest, they actually use it. Even most BTC transactions (except the shady ones) are defcato fiat money transactions done through bitcoins. Everybody is still counting in fiat money even when doing pure BTC transactions. BTC is not money yet.

They may be wrong...

BTC is not money yet. But might be in the future.

I can imagine the US dollar losing it's position in the world, but i don't think bitcoin will play any major role in this "collapse". It will be the US's own fault.

I'm still waiting for the collapse? Everything sees to be going smoothly.

This is an interesting observation to ponder on. Peter Warburton wrote a book 'Debt and Delusion' in 1999 that is not framed in Austrain economics, but tries to answer the question why money printing did not lead to massive inflation. Warburton also touches this topic in a very clean post from 2001 reflecting his thoughts on the state of affairs: w.gata.org/node/8303 Most of his thoughts still apply today and his remark on the absence of 'a stable numeraire' is very intriguing when thinking about Bitcoin as possible contender.
 
I found the book very hard to read but did so anyway, but - when it comes to the observation that is central in this post - you are better off by reading a review of this book by someone with an Austrian view: http://mises.org/library/debt-and-delusion This one will also take some brain cells to digest and is perhaps more about the thoughts of the reviewer than whats actually in Warburton's book, but it creates the clear outlines of a theory why all this massive money printing has not (yet) led to massive inflation. Johnyj and others are on to something here....

Related to the above and also excellent seed if your mind provides vertile grounds is the theory described in the following blog posts: http://parcontre.blogspot.nl/2008_08_01_archive.html with the update (2013): http://parcontre.blogspot.nl/2013/05/deflation-or-inflation.html
Perhaps very simplistic to some educated souls but it paints a helicopter view of the financial economy versus the real economy over a span of decades and how things seem to go in cycles. Suppose this theory has any merit, we are experiencing a financial economy that is blowing the biggest debt bubble ever while disconnecting with the real economy to an increasing extent. The summary is that either the financial economy will snap and meet the real economy below (deflationary) or the real economy meeting the financial economy above (inflationary). A bit of both could mean Gold at $5,000 and the Dow at 5,000 (if history will again rhyme with a 1:1 Dow/Gold ratio at the bottom of the resolution between the financial and real economy). An interesting theory for the broad picture with some interesting ideas on the historical interest rates. Similar thoughts can be drawn from charts like TobinQ: http://csinvesting.org/2014/01/09/tobins-q-the-market-is-60-overvalued/

These things sure keep away the daily drivel of pundits and guru's on Apple flash crashing and stock markets rising (or gold being manipulated) in sight of near depression of the real economy. In the long run, this will not matter. The case for holding bitcoin will not be made over a time span of 1 year only.

As an end note: 'end of the dollar' is a misleading theme. History shows that even with extreme inflation (like 50% per month), people still use the official currency. The dollar may crash and burn, but will surely not end just like that. Therefore, we should not use this terminology when speaking about this topic.

It is taking a while because everything is in movement : there are a lot of companies and people creating wealth in the States, a large stock of capital, wealth and skills. Other currencies are going down. In a ponzi or a bubble everything is going fine until it collapses

I think that the dollar never coming to an end, because it is not only money, but also a world currency (international means of payment).

There's a lot of fud coming from both pro and anti-USD, but the dollar isn't invincible and constantly printing more and more can certainly be disastrous. Only time will tell what truly happens but people have been announcing it's collapse probably since it started.

I don't think anyone alive right now will see the end of the dollar.  I say at least 200 more years before the Dollar officially goes away and is worth nothing.  The problem is it will be such a huge transition that it just won't happen over night.  I mean think of the millions of people who would be bankrupt if the dollar lost all value, literally like 95-99% of the US would be worth nothing and bankrupt.

I  do belive dollar bill  still represents the last best bastion of freedom,  in regard to anonimity -better than BTC-and there is a deliberate plan for its complete annihilation .I  embrace evolution but  bitcoin needs to evolve, if  our concern is -should be- anonimity, or switch to another coin that is already offering the required features.

Seriously? The last bastion of freedom? What makes you think that? What's wrong with the euro?

If you mine BTC, buy it cash and use Tor how would anyone know it's your BTC?

And if you get your dollar bills from an ATM and use them on places where they have dollar bill scanners, how do you know that they don't track you?

Absolutely.  As cryptocurrencies show their potential we might see an integration, but I don't think the dollar is going anywhere for a while.

If you get Dollars from ATM and the merchant where you spend them deposit it to the Bank they could trace it to you but it's not money you are trying to hide anyway.

The merchant where you spend USD does not always need to know your identity.

Never underestimate the power of usd, look at how they are able to manipulate gold and silver. they have jackals, operatives, cia, and entire cartel behind

How are they able to manipulate the price of gold and silver? Surely they can only make them more scarce by hiding them, unless they have hidden reserves and suddenly "introduce" more precious metals?

I ask this because I'm concerned about the economy and beginning to become interested in keeping a small amount of gold/silver in addition to BTC.

I see the dollar being replaced with a basket of commodities, i.e. Oil, Gold, Corn, Copper or silmilar.  It would be great if Bitcoin was a part of the basket, but I doubt it unless the dollar remains in place and printing like crazy for the next 25 years at least.

If Dollar is printed like crazy, it will disappear soon.

You don't understand the purpose of a paper , or digital currency then. Because if you did , you would realize the true reason for the eventual demise of the dollar.

It's great to have a basket of commodities like you listed , but they all have the same inherent problem and that is that they take a longer time to liquidate or trade compared to paper or digital money, in this case pure digital money (Bitcoin & cryptocurrencies) . The dollar will eventually come to an end for many reasons , but the key reason here is that paper currency has become old and obsolete and brighter people are starting to see the benefits a pure digital currency can and will bring over paper currency.

The end.

Fin

/close thread

/lock

/ban anyone below me

The Dollar, the Euro and the Yen are losing value, more people understand that they need a global currency that they can trust, maybe Gold or Bitcoin?

Hahahahaha

Dude. What was the price of Bitcoin January 1st, and what is it today? Are you blind?

This was quite unexpected but it can be a matter of profit for some countries.

You must have no idea, those prices would not have been achieved if Mt Gox did not fake trade, and bitcoin would have been a STEADY incline from $120~ to what it is today, if not higher.

About 800$ on January 1st and 340$ now, nothing to worry about! It was about 14$ on January 1st 2013.

Oil was as high as 107$ a barrel (for wti) this year and is now 55$, oil is not doomed ;D

Supply/Demand...

Oil is not doomed, but oil producers are sweating.
Bitcoin may not be doomed, but miners aren't getting rich quickly.

I won't be surprise to see Oil back at more than 100$/barrel within 2 years. Bitcoin will be back at 1000$ soon too.

The world is changing and most people don't get it.

The price of BTC is not correlated to oil price. With the oil supply surplus, it will not go to $100 easily.

oil demand is rising even when the price rises or falls.  Same with bitcoin is that demand for a solid uncompromised global currency is rising. Im not sure bitcoin will be used but its applicable market is rising and the ability of populations to access its worth is also rising so that is a bullish outlook.
  Even while some industry may be in decline and so recession a possibility, I think the demand for oil is going to rise because of progression in various countries development and dollar will continue to weaken and its long term system; that promotes bitcoin or least some alternative system

You have the supply in the equation of price too.


Bitcoin and Oil should go up in price nominally as more fiat are inflated.

The only real reason why these two numbers are correlating is because there is less money generally flowing into speculative investments as the fed has stopped pouring massive amounts of money into the economy via QE. The prices of bitcoin and oil are not related over the long term 

We have to wait to see if they are correlated or not. Oil and Bitcoin are two scare commodities.

There is no reason for them to be correlated. They are used for two very different purposes. You cannot use bitcoin to directly power your car/train/plane just like you cannot use oil to send money around the world or to pay for things

I consider that from now, Dollar will become, (naturally in very slow way) only paper to clean something.. Because FED printing huge quantity of dollar and its value now dropping..

oooooh! aaaaah!

*runs away in fear*

We know, life is hard...

usd = pieces of printed paper backed by military that will nuke oil-countries that don't want to accept it for oil.

These pieces of printed paper also have to be given to the government as taxes.
So there is a large economy willing to work for these pieces of paper.

Correct but assets that are used for different purposes can be somewhat related. Oil and Bitcoin are two scare resources with increasing demand and a supply that goes up only slowly

Just because two assets have similar supply characteristics does not mean that their price is going to be correlated. The demand dynamics for both bitcoin and oil are very different as their uses are very different.

It is also much easier to manipulate the supply (and price) of oil via cartels then it is for bitcoin

I agree that it remains to be seen if they will be correlated, I was just saying that maybe they will.

The supply of Bitcoin is much more clear than for oil but as for the manipulation of the price both can be manipulated.

Unfortunately these pieces of paper crush any other form of currency for now.

Their value is decreasing and Bitcoin may be adopted massively to stop wars and increase freedom.

Has anybody in this thread ever looked at or even heard of the dollar index? https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=DOLLAR+INDEX

It's strong as hell right now. The simple fact is, not gold, not BTC, but USD is the world's safe haven store of wealth. You can see this by bond prices skyrocketing (yields falling).

Commodities are generally correlated. That's why BTC and oil are sharing a bit of correlation. Ultimately, commodity prices are set by the world economy. There's European and Asian fear in the markets now, hence prices fall as demand wanes.

As a store of wealth, they stink on ice.  Guaranteed rocket sled to zero value.

Little temporary rises relative to other worthless paper are irrelevant to that inescapable, horrible fact:  You have been enslaved in exchange for...nothing.

USD Interest rate has been maintained too low for a long time and it looks like there is a pressure within to hike the rates or else overall it is will be bad in long term.

dollar is the one only good for investment

USD interest rate is low right now because Asian and European investors don't want to invest in those markets. Japan's economy is tanking fast and Greece is starting to spread contagion fears throughout Europe. Money is flooding into US bonds. As bonds get purchased, their prices rise. When their prices rise, yields decrease, due to the fixed coupon payments. As a result, US interest rates are flat, just because of the rush of foreign capital.

It has been a good investment sometimes but it is one of the worst investment among the big choices an investor has right now


The FED is keeping the interest rate at zero

You do realize there's a bond market, right?

You realize the difference between the bond market that has been fixed by the FED and its policies and the official interest rate. You should not comment on subjects you know nothing about, you are embarrassing yourself.

The bond market is being manipulated by the fed via QE as well as the fed's promise to keep short term interest rates low for a long time. There are people speculating that the fed will continue to keep short terms rates low which pushes the market rate for longer term bonds low as well

QE already ended. Please, your right wing fears are entirely unfounded. Go back to hoarding gold and whining about monetary inflation.

The FED didn't unwind its balance sheet and didn't raise rate so we are still in a very lose monetary policy environment with a weak economy. The public debt is still growing fast and the Dollar will likely start crashing in 2015 or 2016

lol, okay. As soon as you start pulling dates out of thin air with no evidence I know you're full of shit. You can spew anti-US FUD, doesn't make it true.

The FED didn't unwind its balance sheet and didn't raise rate so we are still in a very lose monetary policy environment with a weak economy. The public debt is still growing fast  : those are facts we agree on

Yeah, so what? USD is still the world's safest asset.

By the way, I don't think you understand how QE works. The Federal Reserve issued low interest short term bonds to buy back high interest long term bonds. Also, the US is anything but a weak economy. It's been 6 years since recession, get over it.

The fed is not purchasing additional bonds however they are still holding bonds they previously purchased (and have a larger then usual balance sheet - much larger). They are also manipulating the bond market via their promise to keep short term interest rates low for a very long time (it has been ~5 years so far)

In comments at private appearances, Ben Bernanke has stated that he does not expect interest rates to normalize in his lifetime.  If the rate on the Japanese 10 year went to 2%, all the tax revenue of the Japanese government would not suffice to service the coupon payments.  That is where the U.S. is heading, and it is no secret, merely an unmentionable elephant.  Given that it is unlawful to default on the debt of the U.S. Treasury, the only possible outcome is hyperinflation:  No austerity, no financial repression, no feasible growth will suffice to overcome the magnitude of the debt mountain.  The debatable aspect is the timing of that hyperinflation.  Everyone wants time to roll out of USD before it breaks loose.

 

Please, investors are running from Japan to US. They are incomparable. Do you know what a yield curve is? If you did, you would know that all that doom and gloom you're spreading is not evident at all.

We're fighting deflation, not hyperinflation. No one's "rolling out" of USD, they're flocking to it. Also, Treasury "debt" does not work like corporate or individual debt. It works more like company shares than anything else. That is, when a country's doing good (exporting) it's currency rises in price. That's what's happening to USD. It's getting bought up and the price is skyrocketing.

I'm out of this thread. There's no logic or intelligence here. Just an anti-USD, pseudo-economist, pro gold and BTC, circlejerk.

The US has a 500 Billions negative trade balance and the Dollar will be less use while there are plenty of Dollar around.

Investors are buying the Nikkei, and selling Yen.  It's hardly running from Japan to US.  Anyhow, you seem to take my prediction that the dollar will end in hyperinflation as implying that the dollar should be losing value relative to other currencies.  That is non sequitur.


I spent a few months implementing various models of the yield curve (or surface), so I have a pretty good idea.  Predictively modelling the yield curve would be extremely leveragable, so I invested quite a bit of time into it, until I ran into a brick wall trying to solve a boundary value problem in Hilbert space.  I might return to it later if I have more time for basic research.


I don't perceive anything gloomy about it.  Doom just means final fate.  Yes, I perceive the doom of the USD as coming 1 day closer with each passing day.  If you do not, then your perception of time is, shall we say, idiosyncratic, or your vision simply does not extend as far into the future.  I suppose that any outcome or event seems gloomy to those who are unprepared for it.  To those who see their plans bear fruit, the outcome is tasty and sweet -- or at least is not an unbuffered shock.


The first is true, the second is absolutely false.  Some very large holders of USD debt are gradually liquidating already and have been doing so for quite some time.  QE was a god-send for them as it was a huge opportunity to exit without slippage.


The monthly balance of trade has declined from -35bn USD one year ago, to -43bn USD at last report.  Meanwhile, DXY went from 80 to 90.  Methinks your explanation is lacking in evidence.  Methinks the facts are actually supportive of my view, that Japan has left the domain of perceived sovereign risklessness, for the same reasons that the U.S. will one day step outside that pale.


I am bearish gold on a short time frame, bearish on a medium time frame, and bullish on a long time frame.  I doubt you understand what I think.  I am long USDJPY, for example.  That does not mean that it is any less obvious to me that USD will not eventually face the same terminal decline as JPY.  It just means not yet.

Kicking the can down the road works until you run out of road.  A long-term prediction can be perfectly right in the long-term, while being completely wrong in every intervening time period.  I am pretty sure we have at least another 6-9 months of blind faith in central planning being the dominating force in financial markets globally.

Your challenging remarks are appreciated.  Your juvenile remarks are not.  I'm torn as to whether it is good or bad that you should run away.

It may be against the law to default on US (federal) government debt however if the US is not able to raise enough money to pay it's bondholders then it will have no choice but to default. There may become a point where potential investors will not be willing to lend to the US federal government at any price (interest rate)

The Fed will always be there to buy bonds.  So it's not a problem.  Move along.

Dollar comes an End? Well, just adjusting the way since there are many people believing BTC.

dollar will not be end..

If the FED becomes the only buyer the Dollar will tank and loose most its value. We will risk hyperinflation.

Why does it have to be an extreme event? Why couldn't it be just quite higher inflation? 5-8% would be enough, and anything higher, with two digits, would cause panic. The only reason I see for hyperinflation is that the mood can't be managed, but after it didn't happen in the 70's I see no reason to expect it now.

Am I the only person who doesn't get my news off youtube?

The dollar is continuing to strengthen from every piece of news I've seen....but then this fact is true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvYN0oUzVzo

thresher, you're like the guy who gives no credence to global warming because the winter is cold.

i keep saying the dollar is going to be strong for while yet.  when the squeeze on dollar shorts is over (which will take a while, since there are so many USD denominated loans offshore), then we'll see what the next phase looks like.  It may be a hyper- phase, or it may not yet.  An eventual hyper- phase is inevitable, however.  It's just math.

Taking loans in Dollar to buy mining companies, oil companies, gold or bitcoin seem like the trade of 2015

Nope the dollar isn't going "to end". This article is clearly written to bet an S load of shares and tweets about what is right  and wrong  with everything in between. Looking to the past and "copy/pasting" it to a current day problem/situation is one of the first big "no-no"s that are being hammered in at quality universities all over the world. That this "dude" did that doesn't give much value to his mindless ramblings. Besides a currency doesn't go "bust" suddenly, they just print out more money under the guise of some .......( insertion place for the politicians motivation)reason.    ;D

Furthermore a currency that is basically a "world currency", like the dollar, Euro, Yaun and others to fall into dust so to speak, everyone should use other currencies for trading and avoid these currencies, which you can't. Why is that? because it is easy, fast, reliable ( to certain extent) because it has a government backing the currency ( which is saying every resident of said country is backing that coin/currency), etc.

I believe that "fiat" currency and digital currency ( though your paycheck is also digital when it arrives on your bank account)will continue to co-exist for a long time... or something catastrpohic should happen ( in the financial sector... like the news that "every single gold bar reserve of the US fed reserve are fakes") then it is likely that a currency potentially "could" find itself in a major "S** storm". Still the elites, banks etc are in charge and do you really think they give everything up without a fight?

That scenario is exactly what I would call "bust".  And it has already begun.  It just hasn't played out to the end-game yet.

My views are consistent with the expectations voiced by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard recently (in the Telegraph), that "a world awash with excess capacity cannot withstand a fully-fledged dollar tightening shock. The effects will ricochet back into the US eventually, but that could be a long time hence, and this in a sense is the problem for asset markets."


As the U.S. wealth distribution shifts to Gini extremes, the ability of the population to effectively back the USD declines with their declining share of tax burden.  Those who are able (the few wealthy) are disinclined to expend their wealth backing the USD.  They rotate offshore first.  They will avoid the tax burden, so they cannot be expected to support the currency.


Of course not.  They are first into the lifeboats.  Death by drowning is reserved for steerage class passengers.  Heck, that's what lifeboats are *for*.

If the oil price stays below $50, that could be bad investment.

The oil price will likely rise again within 2 years

Yeah, I am no expert but I do believe that there is a good bargain to be had in the oil sector right now.

People are judging the value of their btc against the dollar in one breath and calling the dollar dead in the next, what a joke !

US Dollars is going to rule the world as long as USA lives.

I was thinking only Euro is strong enough to challange $'s power but $ just kicked €'s a** as he did BTC's a few months ago.

True story..... No one would want to be in the Euro over the dollar anymore!

Or BTC for that matter

at some point, you won't need to convert to dollar to buy everything you need with cryptos

why? the EUR is way ahead in the race to the bottom (http://www.visualcapitalist.com/currency-wars-race-bottom/).


The currency war isn't over yet, though.

That's not happening anytime soon.

You can already buy a lot with BTC. BTC could get huge with a price of 40,000$ or more and still be a little bit under the radar.

I don't see that ever happening.  40,000 is a huge number and it just doesn't seem like that could happen.  Don't get me wrong I would love it if it did. The dollar will not go away in anyones life time on this board.  IT may eventually come to an end but not in our lifetime.

perhaps WW3 breaking out could lead to a reshuffle of world powers

It could, but I still don't see that killing the dollar overall.  The amount of change that would have to come would be so drastic it is just going to take a lot of time to change.  Nothing more than time will change the value of the dollar.

What would happen to 99% of hip hop songs? They are all based around making dollars. All the lyrics would be rendered deprecated out of a sudden. What about all these bling bling chains?

Having a million Dollars is not what it used to be but it will not be extraordinary at all anymore in a few decades.

You can never go wrong with comercial hip-hop. As long as there tv, radio and internet will exist. This newschool, crappy hip-hop it's made to be sold and make millions. Managers and performers will always fill their pockets. You can't sell a simple thing, thesedays, wrong is the new cool.

The dollar isn't going anywhere as long as it's used to BUY BITCOIN!

You could imagine buying bitcoins in Swiss France, Yuan, Gold or with your possessions or time.

Smart guy. When you buy bitcoin with dollars you stimulate bitcoin and depress dollar. Marginal, you can't measure it but it is there.

The next step is buying Bitcoin with Bitcoin.

FTFY

Well we can play that game all day.

 Dollar hard to an end.

That's the point.  When Bob spends dollar to buy Bitcoin from Al, Al spends Bitcoin to buy dollar from Bob.
When a coin is bought, it is (at the very same time) sold.
Basics which many of our esteemed financiers fail to grasp.

Yes but if Bob didn't have any bitcoins and is willing to pay a higher price than the previous sell, it's positive for Bitcoin and new money is coming on the market.

Bob has wised up & isn't willing to pay more than the previous sell price.  He's not even willing to pay as much as the last sell price => BTC price tanking.
Money is exiting the Bitcoin network :-\

"Dollar" will become an obscure, depreciative, guetto name for the satoshi unit. That should be that dirty word's legacy.

Right now it is true. cex.io stopped cloud mining, bitstamp has been hacked, the Dollar is strenghtening against all currencies. In Euro Bitcoin is still at 230 euros and things will change when the Dollar will tank and Bitcoin starts having positive news, a positive trend.
The future will look very bright for Bitcoin and the price will rise but it will be too late to make a big profit for those who didn't believe in it.

No better way to lose money than blind faith in shit you don't understand.  But hey, if it wasn't for your ilk, this forum wouldn't be full of raped lolcows what it is today.
Carry on.

The future of currency market will be more LIKE ...

=> INDIVIDUAL x CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CRYPTO TOKENS
=> PLUS WORTHLESS COUNTRY BACKED FIAT CURRENCY

https://i.imgur.com/WZBPu1c.png


https://i.imgur.com/yzsKAqs.png


https://i.imgur.com/DB4lU40.png


https://i.imgur.com/8qCSzV5.png


We are going towards Mayanard Keynes Bancor Plan(1944) through decentralization or centralisation methodology

https://i.imgur.com/C8Lvlff.png

I agree.

Dollar will survive for a long time

For example : dollar is crushing my local currency from Rp 9000 / US$ and now it raised become Rp 12.600 / US$
My local currency is keep struggling to make it up

The Dollar really strenghtened lately but it is likely to go down against assets during the next few years. Some other currencies go down even faster.

He changed everything, but it is still correct. Glitters.

I think a better question is when will the dollar become the world currency as opposed to killed off.

The US Dollar weight in international transactions and as Central Banks reserves has been in decline for years.

I don't know if I can agree with the article. The U.S. dollar is based on a debt system that itself is based on it's military and oil. When OPEC stops writing checks to the U.S. using U.S. dollars then I will be worried but until then I don't think I will bat an eye to these articles anymore. As long as the U.S. has it's military might to keep OPEC within it's grasp, the U.S. dollar will still be the worldwide currency. That's my belief at least.

Will the Bitcoin survive the year?  Tough to say, I don't see the dollar going anywhere for quite some time though!

If bubbles pop and interest rates rise, the FED will create a lot of Dollar, the faith in the Dollar will go down, its value will go down and you have to pay the military with value so it will harder to pay them or it will take more Dollar which means more will be created and the value of the Dollar will go down even more.

I posted this in another thread but it is relevant here.

The dollar won't ever tank. Most people think it is valuated through the fed and others but really it is backed by the most expensive military ever. Oh yea america can put econ sanctions on many this has value. As long as a govt with these things is using the dollar the dollar won't be tanking any time soon.

This to an extent.  I will go as far to say it won't take in anyone's lifetime currently.  We don't know what is going to be going on 200 years down the road from now, so it is foolish to try and guess what will happen.

I agree with you. Say it won't ever tank might have been too strong of language. I meant more a long the lines of in my lifetime I don't think it ever will.

The $ has been tanking for decades! It already lost most its purchasing power and it will keep losing probably at a much faster rate in the near future!

All currencies are tanking due to inflation, $ is not an exception.

While inflation is normal and we can't fight it completely we need to look at the inflation rate. Dolar in the early 20th. century for almost 70 years kept its value almost on the same level. But now look at the last 30 years. Inflation during that time was higher than in the all years of dollar existence before combined.

So what hasn't been tanking then?  This is true for pretty much everything due to the way inflation is occurring. 

I don't think it will "crash" in our lifetime is all I am saying, so 125+ years of the US dollar is to remain at the very least.

At about 2070 if history repeats itself, the current cycle will be over and the system will be inviable. Bitcoin should be off the charts by then. We'll be old as fuck/death by then tho, so who cares.

Like Armageddon people have been proclaiming it's coming very shortly since the day dot. That being said, nothing lasts forever and the dollar as with other currencies will likely collapse or lose most of their value at some point, the question is just when.


It'll be a while for sure but keep printing more and more of it and you'll speed the process up.

Not really, I don't think they are producing enough bills with the cost of living going up and the cost of everything.  We would all be making a lot more money if that was the plan.

The worst is if you are a student. A lot of students that graduate will not be able to find jobs and will have the college debt for life.

I agree with you, I am a graduated student luckily I have a full time job that pays good but a lot of College kids are pretty much going to end up going bankrupt

You lose time and money if you go to college for a worthless degree; if the state pays it means it is paid by people having jobs wether they went to college or not. The quality will go down and the cost will go up.

Dollar is here to stay. The entire world economy depends on it and its the refuge everyone takes in times of crisis.

BTC was supposed to be superior but everybody can not wait to rush into dollars at any sign of trouble.

In our lifetime we may have to deal with the fact the dollar will be strong enough to survive for at least 50 to 100 years.

It has remained the world currency for quite some time now.
Time for a change.

dollar never existed it is just a toilet paper

When is the Dollar coming to an end?

Wishing for a change does not make it so. Its still the strongest hedge out there, and during any crisis the first thing done including by BTC holders is to move into dollars.

The dollar will only come to an end when the US stops being a militarized economy. That will never happen until America is destroyed.

Or it can go down in a military bubble - like the one obama is blowing as we speak.

America better never get destroyed. It's one of the main forces keeping the degenerates in ISISworld away, unless you are a conspiranoid-tard.

Too much Islamo-Fascism I sense in this thread.

America has a growing sector of private military and intelligence contractors with armies of lobbyists that fight to insure that their market share will never go down.  The stigma of being a war profiteer doesn't matter much anymore.   ISIS and other terrorists groups seem to be using weapons that came from America and other countries America does business with, ISIS doesn't make them themselves.  

Drop bombs from killer robots in the sky on terrorists, the collateral damage inspires a new generations of hate-filled extremists, and further demand for high-tech weapons and intelligence to take more terrorists out.   Also it creates a demand for more weapons that eventually make their way to the terrorist groups.  

It seems to me to be a very profitable racket for defense, intelligence, and weapons industries when America is engaged in perpetual war.   However, when half-million dollar bombs are used to take out 500 dollar pickup trucks,  eventually America will go broke.

Dunno but when it happens im going to open some brand new Chardonnay.

The sharp decline of the Dollar could start in 2015 or 2016.

It's more probable that we will see US engaged in new wars , trying to keep their economy alive than we will see a major dollar decline.
They are what they are, but its a fact that they have largest military in the world, and they sure do keep it busy invading "terrorist" countrys, that accidentaly
have large amount of natural resources..

http://rt.com/business/230447-russia-egypt-trade-dollar-drop/

If the two big brokers to tell the Uncle Sam to pay the loan within few years...

If unprepared, then they will fall into the trap which Uncle Sam set.

Feel free to send all your "coming to an end" dollars to me.  I'll keep them nice and safe!

LOL! This will never happen at least in my lifetime   :D

Dollars will exist for millions of years and they have been a dominating currency since ages so it coming to an end is almost impossible.

2017.

The US dollar will probably not disappear. What is more likely is that it will lose some of its exclusivity as the world's reserve currency.

Other currencies are bound to challenge for this position, perhaps even Bitcoin.

No way, its too soon to see any relevant decline. It will take at least a decade to see a solid downtrend.

Only people who wear anonymous masks believe dollar coming to an end. Meanwhile euro going below dollar  :o

Sorry, but i have heard plenty of people for years going on about "the end of the dollar", hasn't happened yet, and i still cannot see it happening at all.

MEPH

It will happen tho, but the EUR must go down first.

EUR is solid for now... at least until 28 February when Greece must take a decision.

Its just dollar not all fiat

Not true.

The euro is in much bigger trouble than the dollar.   The yen is also on the brink of collapse and the Yuan is being held up by massive govt spending which much of it is [abnormally] being spent on real estate development.

So the dollar is actually the stronger of all paper fiat but it is also near death.

All paper fiat are gonna collapse and die soon.

And what a coincidence, a fully trackable global crypto currency is ready to just take over. 

Bitcoin is gonna blow up on an unimaginable way later this year after the ETF goes green.  Buy and hold and don't sell for a measly $10,000 per BTC.

How about Malaysian Ringgit, Indonesian Rupiah, Indian Rupee and others?
Are they collapsing too?

We live on a globalized economy now.  If you look at Ukraine, Russia, Egypt, Argentina, Europe, etc., America's [inflationary] monetary policy is directly having catastrophic effects on all of those countries' economies and currencies.

So yes, India et al will not be able to keep up with the US, they cannot borrow their way out like the US so therefore, their currencies will be much more quickly destroyed via extreme inflationary [excess printing] policy.

This is very good news for gold, silver and especially Bitcoin (and crypto) as there will be very limited places for billions of people to put their earnings and cash savings.

This is why the Bitcoin ETF will open the floodgates for trillions to dollars to come into Bitcoin and crypto.  And it should all start this year and it should blow up very very fast.

So....theres a big chance that the world will starting using cryptocurrency instead of paper money?
Oh yea, thats what I called the future.

That's an absolute guarantee.  What country wouldn't want a fully traceable and traceable currency they can use to totally control the masses while not having to print and distribute real paper money?

Crypto money and especially the tracking abilities of the blockchain are a wet dream of any government, bank or corporation.  

So there is no doubt the planet will switch to crypto money it's just a question of how long it will take and which currency will be the global one.  

I think this is a trap for the government and a double-win for the people:

1.) the freedom of economic transaction (bitcoin delivers that, it's censorship-resistant) is important to protect against opressive government or other entities trying to control the flow of money (take the wikileaks blockade as a prominent example)

2.) the use of sound money (especially via the inelastic money supply) forces fiscal prudence on governments. Spending has to be financed by taxes. The use of sound money also has positive effects on the economy because it will greatly reduce misallocations of capital (bailouts and other capital mis-injections) and plundering of the unsuspecting population ("hidden inflation tax")

The People need to take the governement accountable for useless expenses and going into debt with the children and unborn accountable.

Investing in infrastructures or eduction can be bad if it is badly done and they spent too much. Most people will still be in favor of any money pour to education.

I agree that crypto actually gives the ability to supervise transactions, etc., but I think bitcoin won't be the one (in a scenario where global adoption is reached through governments) simply because you cannot print more of it - as it has been done with fiat for the past decades.

It will happen because you cannot create that many dollars in a world that is naturally looking for other world currenceis without the value of each dollar going down a lot.

The fact you cannot print bitcoins is a good aspect of bitcoin. You can divide it all you want.

In the world of fiat currency, the USD is the leper with the most toes. It gets stronger in times of world financial crises because it is safer than other fiat currencies by virtue of being the world reserve currency. It may indeed end up in hyperinflation, but not until many many years of watching other currencies fail first.

Even with near zero interest rates, the dollar strengthens when credit contracts. Money is lent into existence so when banks stop making new loans, the money multiplier runs in reverse because the existing loans are still being serviced (paid back). Without central bank intervention (quantitative easing), eventually this leads to collapse because there is not enough money in existence to pay back all outstanding loans.

One of these two outcomes is inevitable eventually. Death by fire or ice. But because the central banks can create new money at will, fire (hyperinflation) is the more likely outcome- However the US central bank (Federal Reserve) can postpone that longer than any other central bank. All they have to do is keep the inflation rate lower than the other major world currencies, import everything the U.S, used to manufacture, and find somebody else to blame.

but... since dollar is de facto the most owned by other central banks, those banks leaving the dollar could make a difference. Maybe... the dollar is the first (of the big fiats) to go.

I hate to interrupt your learned discussion but was it one lump or two?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Teaparty.svg/2000px-Teaparty.svg.png

There is zero chance of dollar ever going away, it will however continue to do what it does best, and that is loose the purchasing power over the years.
It comes to me as a great surprice, however , that dollar actualy progressed in comprarison to euro in the last year or so, and quite greatly actually.

cheers

All fiats have failed after their cycle is over. I dont see why dollar has to be immortal.

That doesn't sound like a feasable strategy. Governments are corrupted and they have monopoly on force. It doesn't look like governments are listening to their people much or have the goal to act in the peoples interest, either. It looks more like they're trying to control the people.

I think using crypto (not only -currency, but other applications like encryption) is a much more feasable and peaceful strategy. You don't end a system by attacking it, but by building and using better ones.

Bitcoin's what, six years old?  And you're talking about mortality?

The usd system works the same as bitcoin, we all want the dream to become rich, so we sweat, work, put money in it... but only 1 out of 1000 will become rich

Is it really that high of a rate?  I don't think it is but I could be wrong, and what are we defining as rich?

^He means in the top .1 percent.  I know this because 1 in 1000, and because math.

The dollar has been coming to an end for a very long time but still it is here controlling most of the worlds economy's, paying for wars and being paid back for the wars. When the dollar comes to an end it will be because those in power want it to be the end of the dollar/petro$/war$ if and when that time comes it is going to be terrible news for all country's that rely on it, deaths of millions within a short time and total chaos. It is what the world needs but it is not going to be pretty when the time comes, No bitcoin will not save us however much we would like it to bitcoin needs economies to be on the up to itself be worth anything well imo.

It could be a great way to dump the US debt. Lose the dollar and adopt some kind of crypto/Fiat currency.

ITT:  Bitcoiners talk about collapsing USD as Bitcoin collapses.  Much lel had by all.

A distinction can be made between various "ends" of the "dollar":

The end of the value of your hoarded dollars.

The end of the petrodollar system.

The end of reserve currency status.

The end of the federal reserve system.

The end of fiat-slavery worldwide.

I estimate the above order to approximate the future order of these events.

USA has been very good at attracting talents and growing its economy so it allowed the state to spend more and the dollar to keep going.

The dollar collapsing is about massive inflationary policy and no amount of imported talent will save it.

We have ways of keeping the dollar propped up with native talent.  Not worried one bit 8)

http://s3.postimg.org/v7995zhf7/1northkorea.jpg

It delays the problems and buys time to the government if people are creating a lot of value and wealth in the USA.

What nations like Greece should do in the middle of an up and coming collapse is adopt Bitcoin on the side so the people has a way to store their wealth outside the system, its clear people is going to get all of their money out of the banks, mark my words for june.

It is funny when people here bash the USD when their currency is BTC.  I hate to break it to you guys want one has been around longer and probably will also be around longer after.

Its a tourist nation, they have no export to handle there own debts.

Which is why they end up being "hey, lend me your lunch money again, I forgot it at home" story all the time on the news.

Nothing will change for them unless they have some sort of production. Now look at china, that we all love. Our iphones says everything $1 billion dollar company apple makes how many units over there provided by foxconn."Made in china" but not "Made in Greece"

Greece can't adopt Bitcoin; Greeks definitely can convert a portion of the money they have into bitcoins.
It will probably save them from misery later on.

LOL no way. USD is set to collapse, all fiats have a cycle, BTC is a paradigm shift and no one can predict the outcome.

Why don't you go and ask a common man on a street, "which would you like, US Dollars or bitcoins?" 999999 out of 1000000, he will answer "US Dollars, please."

As long as US maintains its military superiority over any other nations in the world, their currency will rule supreme.

Bitcoin at this stage is just an experiment, albeit one with a huge potential to disrupt existing financial systems and institutions.

At the end of the day, most people will look at bitcoins and just shrug their shoulders. Bitcoin just doesn't replace US$ at this time. We have long ways to go to win the hearts and minds of the people. Bitcoin works better as a commodity, not as currency, and this will continue to be the case for a loooooooooooooooooooong while, if not forever.

The USD has been the world's reserve currency for quite some time now.
Maybe it is time some other currency took over.
Before the USD, it was the GBP and prior to that it was the Spanish Pesetta.
Maybe the time is ripe for Bitcoin to take over.

The value of fiat is permanently decreasing but btc is inflating faster than usd at this current moment. more btc are being minted in comparison to usd

Then again , bitcoin is a very new currency. after most of the btc have been mined out , and the world has started to realise how revelutionary bitcoin is , only then we'll start seeing crazy market caps on bitcoin.

The peseta was created in 1869. You probably mean the Spanish dollar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_currency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_currency)

Bitcoin is probably the single biggest threat to the USD and therefore a threat to China.

Lol the only threat to the dollar is the dollar and the fed, btc plays no part in a threat to it unfortunately it dwarfs it into un imaginable figures. The dollar will still be here long after we are all gone. If it comes to an end then that is the apocalypse imo and the end of life as we know it.

There's no reason for the dollar to collapse in the foreseeable future and even if it did there's no reason to expect bitcoins to replace it.

Okay lets just stop this thread.  BTC currently is absolutely 0 threat to the dollar.  The dollar will not be going away in our lifetime, and probably your kids lifetime as well. 

To the OP, so what's your point of view based on the article? What do you want us to comment on?

It's been nearly a year and the Dollar is still strong.

How can it be a threat to china if it makes USD weaker? Anything that makes USD weaker is good news for china.

Not really. China is an export-oriented economy. Their exports become less competitive is the USD weakens (or conversely if CNY strengthens)

Exactly what I was going to say. The dollar as well as any other currencies will probably consume themselves eventually. You can't just keep printing money to try get your self out of economic troubles or financial collapse is inevitable. I certainly think bitcoin could grow in use if a big currency did collapse but it wont be the cause of it.

I'm waiting for the world to start using bitcoins.
that would be easier
1 world 1 currency  ;D

It would be easier, but try getting the governments to accept that.
Have you heard of Bancor?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancor

The strong Dollar is helping the Dollar stay high but it will surely fall sharply at some point, in 6 months ? In a year ? It could start Today !

Oh please no, I vomit from the face of that con artist Keynes. His theory has and will cause all financial problems, and the overdebting of the globe, and you want his currency to prevail, I dont think so.

His keynesian pyramid scheme has done already enough harm, plus we already got bitcoin, so let's just use Bitcoin. We don't need another fractional ponzi currency.

I am all for using Bitcoin.
Any currency which is globally accepted is good.
And with Bitcoin's features, why shouldn't it be the global currency?

Because there is a limited amount of coins.  If it was a world currency it wouldn't work because essentially that means like 3 billion of the people on earth would not have any coins, and have no way of earning them essentially.  Its a great thing I just don't see Bitcoins ever overtaking the dollar.

Not today, next month or in a year. But during the next decade. Luckily Bitcoin will keep growing as USD fails.

Bitcoin will grow as the US financial sector shows its weakness and the Dollar loses most its value in a decade or two.

Why would they have no way of earning coins?

They could earn it working for companies own by people who already have clam or selling their assets for clam.

i think is not, dollar now strong fiat not like other fiat. dollar good for investment

The Dollar has lost ~ 98% of it's value in a little over 100 years. If you consider the size of the USA debt, then "we" are in really serious trouble.

The same system is not in place today . . . It ended with the closure of the gold window!

But they can keep printing more and more money indefinitely to combat that hyperinflation so people hasn't perceived a change in purchasing power, the real question here would have been: how long can keep they doing this while keeping in order? can they go on forever? they give me the sometimes impression that yes they can.

The bigger the bubble, the longer it takes to collapse.  The pound dominated the world for about 100 years, then dollar came. And since then dollar has had a hundred years of global dominance status.

Financial liquidity is always presented as "stable", until it crashes.  When confidence changes, things move very fast.  If anyone knew for sure which way things will go, that person could make a lot of money.

Even the final stage of a bubble this big could outlast a lifetime.  Or it could collapse tomorrow due to a seemingly small event.

That's just pure speculation. If you were to estimate what happens to dollar in 70+ years, your estimate will be based on the assumption that things remain similar to the way they are right now, and you consider certain factors that are potentially gonna change over time.

But what about the zillion other factors that you have assumed to be the same? It's a pretty unfair speculation is all I'm trying to say.

Its not profits of doom, its common sense. The USA has been living rich off the USD. It will be time to pay that back.

they will pay it back with another high debt, there no way this whole scam system will collapse, it's a pefect system made by them, and it is working since many decade, also this system has overcome many crises

so again there is no reason for it to stop here, unless some major thing appear, like everyone will switch to crypto, almost impossible

I don't know about the currency replacement happening so fast but I am sure dollar wouldn't collapse for ATLEAST 30 years. A lot happens in 30 years and I would really be happy if it goes down as my btc will go up but I would rather stick on my realistic guns.

i wish thats gonna be happen and bitcoin replaced it and the goverment would accepted it officially and iam pretty sure that fiat's gonna converted to the cryptocurency,but iam not confident that goverment could join with bitcoin maybe they just adopted it and make their own cryptocurency , who knows?

Dollar may lose its value a little.. because of the other upcoming economies.. but it won't die.. it won't for sur hit rock bottom

It is very soon to conclude that Dollar is coming to an end. Dude, this is the currency of Super Nuclear powered country called United States of America. At present, U.S is controlling all monies value in financial markets, what they fix the value, that value only be calculated and approved.

The amount of times I've seen this brought up....I'm extremely skeptical of this happening. Everyday someone is claiming the dollar will fall and Bitcoin/gold/(insert precious metal here) will prevail. It's old at this point.

Well if China stops building ghost cities and they start liberalizing their economy then it might become endangered.

However yes to go away at all is unrealistic, it might drop by 30-50% in value, but not more. Atleast not in the next 10-15 years.

Dollar, people still use those?
I just use BTC for everything these days. It's too easy not to.

i wish i could do the same,, there are still numerous thing that prevent me from using it directly, like food(supermarket small market) and some electricity shop like amazon(i'm waiting for open bazar) that could come in hand for changing computer part

but i don't want to buy abroad, even if they accept bitcoin, because then there is the problem with the customs...

To end the monopoly of USD, is like saying that US will not remain the most powerful nation of all. Whatever China and Russia do, they cannot run their economy just by doing business within themselves. They will always have to come to USD for improving their business relationships with other countries and to boost their economy.

\
Hell yeah it will collapse. Russian economy is way too strong. And when it does, you will have nothing left. Your oil resources are runing low, so watch out... I would be worried.

If China and Russia where to ally with Japan, they could create an amazing force. Japan has all the hi tech these 2 countries are lagging behind for years. It's a very unlikely situation tho, I don't see Japan becoming a fundamental ally with any of those.

Japan has a very bad relation with China, which is very sad, since Japan has high tech and creativity, China has labour and resources.

If they would partner up strong, they could help eachouther our very very well.

Too bad this stupid rivalry is slowing down mankind.

I don't have any dollars so I don't care. All I got are cryptos!

and how you use them, you need to dump for usd at one point, unless in your zone you can pay everything with bitcoin(i high doubt that)

but in the event the dollar collapse(unlikely before any other fiat) bitcoin will just switch to euro and so on, as long as there is one fiat we can measure its value easy