|
Title: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Cummins59 on July 27, 2014, 01:03:13 PM Just curious, we are looking into opening a mining operation ( high scale ) but according to recent news the US just missed an EMP from the sun that would have put the US back in the 18th century. In other words it would have shorted out and melted anything electronic. At that point in time or if there was an EMP attack against the US what happens to Bitcoin? Does it immediately become worthless? You won't be able to do anything with them and if stored online they won't be retrievable as they will probably be erased when all hard drives are smoked.
I know this sounds like it can't happen but it very easily can. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: stryker on July 27, 2014, 01:06:40 PM bitcoin = decentralised. If just one full node out of the many many thousands world-wide survives then bitcoin can repropagate.
This is why its important we still have plenty of full nodes round the globe and not just these "light" clients. In another scenario, if say somehow the USA got cut off from the rest of the world, then the block chain would fork. There would be the chain being mined in USA and the chain being mined in the rest of the world. When the USA came back on-line the longest chain would be the winner, the fork would be over and again... bitcoin would continue. Think that covers the major bitcoin apocalyptic scenarios :-) Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: MegaHustlr on July 27, 2014, 01:15:50 PM If something like a solar flare happened then it would probably wipe out all other technology including fiat payment systems. And America isn't the world. There's plenty of other countries with miners in that will be safe and will carry on.
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: joshraban76 on July 27, 2014, 01:20:24 PM I'm sure that there are some people with Faraday cages and protections from something like that here in the US. We just would need one to stay online. Also if we had an EMP strike I would think there would be bigger worries then if your bitcoin is safe.
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: gentlemand on July 27, 2014, 01:37:52 PM I'm sure some of the heavy duty mining operations are installed in properly protected facilities. I suspect the humongous majority of the world is not, so there may still be Bitcoin but no one outside the occasional bunker is going to have any interest in it.
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Meuh6879 on July 27, 2014, 02:04:03 PM ::) even a desktop tower is a faraday cage ... but "line at the outside" ... not.
with solar event, only "grid" is affected ... not the devices. ;) Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Abdussamad on July 27, 2014, 02:05:18 PM LOL most miners are actually in China
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: franky1 on July 27, 2014, 02:12:58 PM this guy gets it
bitcoin = decentralised. If just one full node out of the many many thousands world-wide survives then bitcoin can repropagate. but you lot should worry more about your fiat bank accounts and ATM machines.. because if they go boom, you go bust Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: CasinoBit on July 27, 2014, 02:18:43 PM Bitcoin will be the least of your worries as everyone will be looting and raping everything in sight
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: yayayo on July 27, 2014, 02:46:55 PM bitcoin = decentralised. If just one full node out of the many many thousands world-wide survives then bitcoin can repropagate. This and even if the whole network breaks down for a period of time the blockchain would still exist on some storage devices. So network operation could resume in the future. If really anything electronic goes defunct you would have no internet, no banking , no electricity, no water, and nothing to buy at the supermarkets after a few days because nowadays everything is managed electronically... so I think in that case a working bitcoin network might be a nice thing, but nothing really important... ;) ya.ya.yo! Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Remember remember the 5th of November on July 27, 2014, 02:48:57 PM If that solar flare had hit America, the whole world would've fallen into chaos. America may not be the only country in the world, but it's still a huge factor.
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Meuh6879 on July 27, 2014, 02:50:23 PM need to view : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0805663/
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Remember remember the 5th of November on July 27, 2014, 02:53:39 PM need to view : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0805663/ Jericho was a good series, but it got cancelled. They apparently managed to bring it back for a second season, but it got cancelled again.Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Meuh6879 on July 27, 2014, 02:55:42 PM i link this because is it in the right line of this thread ... :)
this serie answer at all question about EMP... too. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: LiteCoinGuy on July 27, 2014, 03:04:46 PM or after:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2009/4/7/1239100063941/Asteroid-002.jpg or: http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/godzilla.jpg Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Baitty on July 27, 2014, 03:07:28 PM I think Bitcoin would be the last of things you would be worrying about Bitcoin probably wouldn't survive in all honestly supply and demand would be gone because people would want to survive instead of getting rich...if a solar had hit then that would spell the end for most technology not just Bitcoin.
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: ScreamnShout on July 27, 2014, 03:14:42 PM bitcoin = decentralised. If just one full node out of the many many thousands world-wide survives then bitcoin can repropagate. This and even if the whole network breaks down for a period of time the blockchain would still exist on some storage devices. So network operation could resume in the future. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Baitty on July 27, 2014, 03:16:21 PM bitcoin = decentralised. If just one full node out of the many many thousands world-wide survives then bitcoin can repropagate. This and even if the whole network breaks down for a period of time the blockchain would still exist on some storage devices. So network operation could resume in the future. It's indeed a good security measure but in a disaster I don't think Bitcoin would be any use to anyone which is why having millions of nodes won't help a tiny bit. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: galbros on July 27, 2014, 03:47:31 PM The coins are on the blockchain, so as long as a "correct" copy of it prevailed and your had your private keys your bitcoins would remain accessible.
EMP is bad, no doubt, but I doubt a natural one would totally wipe out any large industrial country, and as others have pointed out, the US banking system is way more vulnerable (and valuable) than bitcoin to something like this. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: cr1776 on July 27, 2014, 06:43:39 PM A few books if you want to read more about it:
1. One Second After 2. Lights Out 3. 77 Days in September You can also read about Starfish Prime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime) if you want to read some from quite a while ago. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Cummins59 on July 27, 2014, 07:47:06 PM I really believe in bitcoin but I would think the best option is to convert to cash or junk silver as a means to protect your investment and maintain a spendable option. I remember during 9-11, the gov shut down all communications immediately and I remember the chaos during the blackout in the Eastern US. Both would have been troublesome situations trying to get supplies/food and pay with bitcoin whereas junk silver 90% quarter dimes halves and nickels would have still been accepted.
I do love the ease of payment with bitcoin though. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I am just being a realist because the emp or blackout WILL happen. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: beetcoin on July 28, 2014, 01:04:27 AM I really believe in bitcoin but I would think the best option is to convert to cash or junk silver as a means to protect your investment and maintain a spendable option. I remember during 9-11, the gov shut down all communications immediately and I remember the chaos during the blackout in the Eastern US. Both would have been troublesome situations trying to get supplies/food and pay with bitcoin whereas junk silver 90% quarter dimes halves and nickels would have still been accepted. I do love the ease of payment with bitcoin though. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I am just being a realist because the emp or blackout WILL happen. sure it WILL happen, because it's happened before.. but how long will that be? 10 years? 100 years? 1,000 years? the last time it happened, where it would have wiped out or electronic systems, was in the mid 1850's.. and it hasn't happened since. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: 2112 on July 28, 2014, 02:00:06 AM People are posting fantasy and fiction as sources of information.
I wanted to post a concrete scientific information from a specialist, but unfortunately their web site is now gone. I'm going to cut-paste my post from almost two years ago. The referenced document is now gone, but you may be able to scrape some real information from various references to it and web caches. What would happen if all satellites went down for a day? Pretty close to a complete communications blackout. Vast majority of fiber optic links are synchronous with the clocks synchronized off of the GPS (or equivalents). If you disable GPS the clocks will drift off in less than a day and the communication will cease. Obviously rich countires have access to multiple precise atomic clocks (cesium, rubidium) and will be able to restore operation of some most critical fiber-optic links. Poorer countries will have to make do with the old radio-stabilized quartz oscillators.The quickest to fail will be all CDMA carriers (Verizon,Sprint,etc.) because of high required timing precision. GSM carriers (ATT,T-Mobile) will fare better. Various 4G and 3G schemes will fail even faster, but almost all wireless cariers have the above older systems as a backup. The old style T1/T3 connections (E1/E3 in Europe) will last the longest because they operate plesiochronously (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesiochronous_system). Afterwards there will be a great amount of energy spent to fix this vulnerability. But the current situation is as described: GPS stabilized clocks are everywhere. http://www.chronos.co.uk/files/pdfs/wps/Dependency_of_Comms_on_PNT_Technology.pdf Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: beetcoin on July 28, 2014, 02:03:50 AM here's the worst case scenario EMP from 1859 that would be catastrophic in today's terms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
there was an episode on the sun on "how the universe works" recently.. it was a good watch. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: Cummins59 on July 28, 2014, 02:40:19 AM I really believe in bitcoin but I would think the best option is to convert to cash or junk silver as a means to protect your investment and maintain a spendable option. I remember during 9-11, the gov shut down all communications immediately and I remember the chaos during the blackout in the Eastern US. Both would have been troublesome situations trying to get supplies/food and pay with bitcoin whereas junk silver 90% quarter dimes halves and nickels would have still been accepted. I do love the ease of payment with bitcoin though. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I am just being a realist because the emp or blackout WILL happen. sure it WILL happen, because it's happened before.. but how long will that be? 10 years? 100 years? 1,000 years? the last time it happened, where it would have wiped out or electronic systems, was in the mid 1850's.. and it hasn't happened since. I don't really care when it happens it is just the concern that I will holding a bunch a electronic shit that may not work and therefore I am screwed. Mining, spending and diversity into other assets is the only way to go. Anyone that banks entirely on e-coin which can be flicked off by the United Nations is not a realist. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: beetcoin on July 28, 2014, 02:47:04 AM I really believe in bitcoin but I would think the best option is to convert to cash or junk silver as a means to protect your investment and maintain a spendable option. I remember during 9-11, the gov shut down all communications immediately and I remember the chaos during the blackout in the Eastern US. Both would have been troublesome situations trying to get supplies/food and pay with bitcoin whereas junk silver 90% quarter dimes halves and nickels would have still been accepted. I do love the ease of payment with bitcoin though. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I am just being a realist because the emp or blackout WILL happen. sure it WILL happen, because it's happened before.. but how long will that be? 10 years? 100 years? 1,000 years? the last time it happened, where it would have wiped out or electronic systems, was in the mid 1850's.. and it hasn't happened since. I don't really care when it happens it is just the concern that I will holding a bunch a electronic shit that may not work and therefore I am screwed. Mining, spending and diversity into other assets is the only way to go. Anyone that banks entirely on e-coin which can be flicked off by the United Nations is not a realist. well, if you're afraid of a sunspot/EMP from the sun, what i'm saying is.. it shouldn't be at the top of your list of thing to be concerned about. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: cr1776 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:41 AM Starfish prime is fact. The other three books are based on fact with of course fiction as to the societal impact of an emp type event. Since no one (on earth) has been through such an event in the modern age, that type of speculation is by necessity fictional.
People are posting fantasy and fiction as sources of information. I wanted to post a concrete scientific information from a specialist, but unfortunately their web site is now gone. I'm going to cut-paste my post from almost two years ago. The referenced document is now gone, but you may be able to scrape some real information from various references to it and web caches. What would happen if all satellites went down for a day? Pretty close to a complete communications blackout. Vast majority of fiber optic links are synchronous with the clocks synchronized off of the GPS (or equivalents). If you disable GPS the clocks will drift off in less than a day and the communication will cease. Obviously rich countires have access to multiple precise atomic clocks (cesium, rubidium) and will be able to restore operation of some most critical fiber-optic links. Poorer countries will have to make do with the old radio-stabilized quartz oscillators.The quickest to fail will be all CDMA carriers (Verizon,Sprint,etc.) because of high required timing precision. GSM carriers (ATT,T-Mobile) will fare better. Various 4G and 3G schemes will fail even faster, but almost all wireless cariers have the above older systems as a backup. The old style T1/T3 connections (E1/E3 in Europe) will last the longest because they operate plesiochronously (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesiochronous_system). Afterwards there will be a great amount of energy spent to fix this vulnerability. But the current situation is as described: GPS stabilized clocks are everywhere. http://www.chronos.co.uk/files/pdfs/wps/Dependency_of_Comms_on_PNT_Technology.pdf Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: cbeast on July 28, 2014, 03:23:23 AM What happens to Bitcoin if the Sun goes Supernovae?
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: bbit on July 28, 2014, 03:29:39 AM Bitcoin will be the least of your worries as everyone will be looting and raping everything in sight THis ^^ . We would all be dead by looters. Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: gambian- on July 28, 2014, 04:11:53 AM Just curious, we are looking into opening a mining operation ( high scale ) but according to recent news the US just missed an EMP from the sun that would have put the US back in the 18th century. In other words it would have shorted out and melted anything electronic. At that point in time or if there was an EMP attack against the US what happens to Bitcoin? Does it immediately become worthless? You won't be able to do anything with them and if stored online they won't be retrievable as they will probably be erased when all hard drives are smoked. Even if they are wiped back to "18th century", technology from other countries would help as well as the fact that we have all of the research on or offline which would be accessible from other countriesI know this sounds like it can't happen but it very easily can. But yet again part of the internet is hosted in the US so don't know what would happen when it comes to servers and such Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: BTCevo on July 28, 2014, 05:30:06 AM Just curious, we are looking into opening a mining operation ( high scale ) but according to recent news the US just missed an EMP from the sun that would have put the US back in the 18th century. In other words it would have shorted out and melted anything electronic. At that point in time or if there was an EMP attack against the US what happens to Bitcoin? Does it immediately become worthless? You won't be able to do anything with them and if stored online they won't be retrievable as they will probably be erased when all hard drives are smoked. Even if they are wiped back to "18th century", technology from other countries would help as well as the fact that we have all of the research on or offline which would be accessible from other countriesI know this sounds like it can't happen but it very easily can. But yet again part of the internet is hosted in the US so don't know what would happen when it comes to servers and such The internet is hosted all over the world, it is short for international network :) Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: allthingsluxury on July 28, 2014, 05:40:44 AM Likely, this is honestly the least of your worries. But regardless part of the system will survive and rebuild.
Title: Re: What happens to Bitcoin during an EMP / Solar Flare? Post by: kblaidd on February 21, 2018, 01:05:23 AM Found this thread as I was just wondering this - or something related. A lot of countries have a fairly tenuous connection to the internet. For example a 72 year old lady with a spade cut off Armenia's connection to the internet back in 2011. When Elon Musk's constellation is in orbit, total internet outages will become much less likely but I can still conceive of scenarios in which the internet becomes fragmented (e.g. combination of solar flare and 72 year old lady) in which case presumably local Bitcoin networks would continue to be function independently until the connection was restored... at which point if I understand correctly how the blockchain works... things would become very messy and potentially this could become devastating to the reputation of cryptocurrencies.
It seems to me that this could be protected against in software e.g. if nodes refused to work unless they had access to a number of geographically distant nodes. Or the network could even continue perhaps if there were a way to send transactions over short-wave radio (probably not a good scenario for a solar flare). |
