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I am happy to see your  continued commitment to present the community with serious hardware reviews. I hope the choice you took to steped into this role is being appreciated as it is not an easy one.

why the hell are these so overpriced?!

Because ppl want to make money and don´t realize that bitcoin mining is no longer a get-rich-quick game.

These particular units use the probably cheapest 28nm chip available, the one from hashfast. (it is the cheapest one because bankrupt hashfast sells them below internal cost)

The PCBs need a bit more than usual mining pcbs, and the watercooled system adds a little to pricing.

However, internal costs of these miners shouldn´t exceed 0.6$/GH, so there is a massive margin.

As a heads up, the default IP is not 192.168.0.xx on all machines, our machine and the user manual states that the default is 192.168.1.140

I know, it changes on every machine. I have to refer to something for the sake of the instructions though.

Not according to them- all the machines from now on will be set to 192.168.1.140 per my conversation with them and http://www.bitcrane.com/down/T-110en.pdf , and none of my boxes had come with any config sheet in the box, just the miner and power cord

Ok, I'll change it.

Should help people out- I was following your guide till I hit that part :P

Done. Have you got one of the flow altered units or one of the 'older' units like me?

Mine pulls the air in from the top, and exhausts out the front/back, weird setup. I think im going to flip the fans around and check the temps.

Great write up again Dogie, thanks.  I was curious about this unit when I saw all the ads popping everywhere.

I find it interesting that it uses watercooling, I would think that aircooling would have been the mode of choice to bring the price down and made it more price competitive...   It has no rackmounting either, kind of a bummer. I see these sitting on an enthusiasts desk somewhere though.
  

I wouldn't do that, its specifically done like that for board airflow. I thought maybe you had one of the revisions.

The units are much smaller than typical racks. You can 'rack mount' them by putting a shelf in and stacking 4 of them up though.

The pull setup does not put any air over the boards, just pulls in air from the top and pushes it out the side vent, and the front/back vents, maybe if anything the top board gets a little airflow.

I did end up swapping them, and saw a 4-5C reduction in temps per chip, I will do more testing.

Its not the chips which are the problem though, it gets a little 'unknown' at this point. Chips only throttle at 110C so they're no where near their cap.

The unit I have hashing in 24C ambient is at 91 and 93C per chip, previously was 99 and 97 per chip, and when the unit was moved to our warmer facility shutdown due to thermal throttle

That reminds me, I have some shelves and a rack to sell. :|

What did you think about the quality of the build though and the shipping method/packing since this is all from China? In contrast, some of the bitmain stuff has a tendency to uh... show up a little shaken, to put it lightly.

Fantastic packaging, and quality except for the hot gluing of some cable internally could have been done better, as well as some better cable management. Arrived in good condition to us, except the cable that powers our control unit is very very touchy

I don't think thats thermal throttle - of the CPUs anyway. I put my unit in a 40C cell and the chips were at 90C, and they've told me they have their software cap at 110C. The ASICs internally throttle to keep the temps below that. Either way, you might have some dodgy mounting of your blocks?

Thats what I am starting to think. I will probably tear it apart tomorrow again and re-paste the blocks

I would guarantee that the internal price of these miners is over $0.6/GH, with everything that's included. That's only $660 per unit, and there's no way they're getting two Yoli boards, the coolers, fans, PSU and case along with assembly and test in a sub-$700 budget.

My estimated internal cost would also not enclude NRE such as engineering cost etc.

I was extrapolating from AM/Bitmain figures, and calculating at a high production volume (which might not be applicable here).

The hashfast chip also needs a quite expensive PCB, but is it more expensive per GH than other miners?

At the end of the day the chip is quite potent, but needs expensive peripherals to work properly.

Yeah, I was just talking about the per unit cost. I have the board files and full BOM for that board. The PCB is expensive, and the BOM costs are quite high on the Yoli board, even in a reasonable volume. The board cost for the HF chips is higher; because the current density is so much higher you need many layers of heavy copper.

But at the same time, you only need 2 PCBs per TH and its a small area. Doesn't it work itself out?

Short answer, no. Putting aside the issue of mounting a cooler, say for instance that you had four individual HF dies on their own 784 ball (29mm square) BGA instead of the current four die 1936 ball (484 pins per die, 45mm square). Even spreading the dies out, it would only add marginally to the area of the board; the power supply area and none of the logic would even have to change. The flip side of that is now instead of essentially having all the current entering and exiting the die through two sides of the die (since the other two sides have a die adjacent to them with their own power planes) you now have power being able to enter/exit through all four sides. In addition, using the larger package gives you 67% more power pads, giving a corresponding reduction in per-ball current. Those two factors combine to not only to improve efficiency since you lose less in the board, but you can reduce your number of layers and/or the copper weight per layer.

So basically the high density doesn´t pay off as you need to use expensive water-cooling loops and the PCBs also get more costly per GH.

I guess the design approach spondoolies follows is much cheaper per GH, and even large BE200 boards should be less expensive per GH (and easier / cheaper to cool).


Possible splitting of the dies into 4 chips might help achieve a higher efficiency, and cooling per die might also improve (or atleast stay the same) and should allow for an air-cooled setup.

With some solid engineering, I am sure other companies should also be able to achieve a high air-cooled density, eliminating the need for these costly water-cooled setups.

Great review once again dogie. Added the miner to the hardware comparison list
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gtj8ts3zEUZPwSBZQnYZwi__zGfg-0SKVIdH_17GqYw


Very true for AM, Bitmine chips. Hashfast has designed everything to be watercooled I guess. May be a good way to reduce the airconditioning but use some clever hotair ducts :-)

I don't supposed you've seen source code for the (cgminer GPL3 based) driver for this hardware?

Excellent guide again dogie - well done  :)

As a follow up to ck's post, and as has been discussed recently here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=738936.0  I'd like to formerly request that you include a new marking section to your guides, based on the manufacturers compliance with cgminers GPLv3 License. I believe a manufacturer who uses ck's code for their products but refuses to release the source should be marked down in some way. Open Source software should & must be kept Open Source, and any manufacturer who does not release the code, even after ck requests them to do so, should be frowned upon as to the reasons why, for obvious reasons.


I'm not sure how you could/should implement this, but I do believe it will aid the reader of your guides into making a more informed and morally correct decision as to which manufacturer to invest their BTC into.
Thanks for your time - and keep up the excellent work!

Peace  :)

Edit: This, of course, goes for any Open Sourse GPLv3 software - not just ck's.

Excellent idea.  8)

This may be dated but I can tell you that one of the reasons Hashfast didn't get out of their hole is they were trying to sell things well above market price, I and a few other people had to scrap Hashfast projects using hundreds/thousands of chips/boards because until three weeks ago they were selling at very high prices... I wonder if they committed to Hashfast and almost lost it until things finally started being adjusted..

I am surprised they just don't speak up on the cgminer issue, I for one would be surprised if they made any changes to cgminer to support this hardware as it's just Hashfast Yoli boards.. If they are talking to it via socket they are in compliance...

With that said if they did make any changes they need to step up and do the proper (and legal) thing and release, although I can't imagine what they would have done since nothing was needed..

The reason why I left it to you for the list is I couldn't tell you if I'm looking at Cgminer source code or Cgminer API - software is not my thing :P I'll get them to sort this if its not done already.

Me too actually, they've been online quite a few times since the first post so they're aware of the concerns. But then, they've been ignoring ck's request since day one, so .........I just bumped it again  ;)

I've emailed them now, they'll come sort it.

Nice one dogie.

Have you had any thoughts about adding a marking system for the Closed/Open Source compliance yet?

Peace   :)

Yeah it will be added, just need a list from CK on who he doesn't have source from yet.

Hi,
I recently interviewed the CEO of BitCrane and he said it is available on GitHub.  I am going to make sure he doesn't just mean that cgminer is available but their port of it.
I have started asking this of companies that I interview now.  I feel there needs to be more awareness of it as you do.
The interview will go live later this week or next week once I get a few more questions answered and verify info.
Thanks again for you hard work.

They've not forked anything, they're using the original HashFast code and so don't need to repost.

True but I had not dug deeply into the software to see if they made any changes.  It is good to know they did not and it is only the GUI that is all slicked up. LOL

this newcomer quite pricey
but, overall, this' the best looking miner

Yeah it really is quite pretty.

I am hoping someone can help me with this. I bought the Bitcrane T110S and pulled it out of the box and cant seem to find it on my network. I logged into the router and checked every IP on the list. Does anyone have any suggestions?

For mine the default IP was 192.168.1.140

Thank you i tried that. I am not sure why it wont go to it. I am thinking maybe i will go get a crossover cable and attempt it that way. I have been trying to get it going for hours now and no progress at all!

I'm not sure if they have an SD image available on their website somewhere, but if you can't figure it out you can always plug the two USB cables into a laptop (or desktop, or Pi) and run cgminer as normal so you can mine while you figure it out.

I appreciate the response but unfortunately there are no USB ports.

Isn't the T-110S just a downclocked and quieter version of the T-110?
If so, there should be a USB port on the two boards, that you can connect to a computer.

Oh wow. Get out of dodge. I had no clue. I was hesitant to open it due to the voiding of the warranty but i will for sure do it knowing they are there. I will let you know if it works. Thank you

Ok so after almost an entire day i am left without a miner. I have no idea what is wrong with this thing. Anyone know of any miners in the East bay area (California)? Wondering if someone would be able to see this on their network. Thanks in advance

Very slightly clocked down, and with 2x quieter fans in place of several 1x loud fans.



Are you not able to bypass the internal Pi and use a computer? Once you open up you can check what LEDs are visible on the Pi as well.

What i did try last night was to get my other R-Pi to run them but it doesnt recognize them.The R-Pi i have is running minepeon. Then i decided it probably was better that i didnt try it that way. I dont know any of the (bin bash) setup codes or anything like that so i was concerned about ruining it. There doesnt seem to be much out there on these devices. It seems to all boil down to not seeing it on the network. (nic shows solid green intermittent flashing orange) (when running on everything that came with it). I could try to run cgminer on my desktop but again i dont know how to configure it.

Create a .bat file with notepad (just save it as .bat) and put it in the same directory as a recent copy of cgminer.


I like leaving the pause in, it means if you put an incorrect string in it will stop and show you the error rather than instantly closing. Your clock speed on the T-110S might be 650, I'm not sure.

Can someone help me understand what the following means/does:

Utility
DH
DiffA
DiffR

https://i.imgur.com/42l5iaV.jpg

Thanks

Also - try a different router if you're having issues with it connecting...

Utility - Number of shares [at worker diff] submitted a minute
DH - What percent of shares were lost due to hardware errors [in terms of diff 1]
DiffA - Number of shares [diff 1] which were accepted and credited by your pool
DiffR - Number of shares [diff 1] which were rejected and not credited by your pool

Thank you!

I just got one of these, was on sale at Newegg! I got the T-110s silent version. The fan in the top rear of the unit is not spinning, I think I may have to send it back :(

Think these miners can run in below freezing temperatures with the water cooling?

It won't spin unless cgminer is actively mining on Hashfast boards usually, depends how they set up their boards. If you mean its never running at all, then you can open it up and see if you can trace the wire. It might just be slightly loose etc. If you're sure the fan is dead, you can replace it with a near match for ~$15. Up to you if you want to go through the hassle of an RMA.

I just got my T-110S a couple days ago from NewEgg.  Tried to set it up last night and access with the IP that is on a sticker on the front just like stated here: 192.168.1.140  and I cannot get anything.  It does not even show up as a client with and address on my router.  My router is 192.169.1.1 and subnet 255.255.255.0   So I have no idea?  I even pulled out an old router and conf'd it to 192.168.0.1 and 255.255.0.0 to try connecting at 192.168.0.140 and nothing. 

I am extremely frustrated right now and cannot find any help or troubleshooting on the Bitcrane site or through google searches. :(

It may be stock set to DHCP, if so login to your router and see what IP its been assigned.

If only it were that easy....it does not show up on my router at all as a client.  This leads me to think it is on a different subnet.  I have absolutely no idea how to figure this one out.  I contacted BitCrane and did get a generic canned response that they got my support request.  Who knows when they will contact me.  So much for Plug & Play ???

Alternatively Pi's used as controllers often won't show up on a router if they've got their gateway set wrong. So, its not an easy process finding it.

If you really can't get the controller working, you could use a longer USB cable and run the modules off another cgminer based controller (Windows PC etc).

Try a router with 192.168.1.1?

Also double check the router settings, many have a default max client number range of 50. You would need to uncheck that option then manually set the max ID to end at .254, which is where the device may be. Don't forget that some routers will accept changes but won't enact them until it is restarted. My HP e-Print doesn't work after its lost connectivity until I restart my AP, FRUSTRATING.

Great review Dogie, but, and there's always a but,  ;) in the picture showing the liquid cooling the pump is connected to the PWM fan socket and the fan is connected to the standard three pin fan socket, surely for the fan to be controllable it should be the other way around and a four pin fan installed.
Also while I don't own one of these I do have experience assembling computers and know the best cooling is achieved by a flow of air from bottom inlet to top exhaust, so flipping the radiator mounted fans to exhaust air will prevent them drawing in hot air from the radiator.
One more possible modification would be to invert the end panel with the laser cut hole so that it is towards the base where cooler air can be drawn in if the unit is used in the vertical position.
This is not a criticism of the review, merely some thoughts that may help others.  ;D

Fans are variable via PWM (some) or voltage (all). You only need 3 pins for voltage control.



The PCBs require direct cooling so you can't reverse the flow.

So with the 192.168.1.140 not working, I finally got my 110s miner running today...way too many hours in on this.  Here is what I did:

So no luck on my direct connect to laptop.  I configured my spare router to 192.168.1.1 and 255.255.0.0 and left everything else blank.  I had the laptop and 110 connected to the spare router. Checked my client list and found it at 192.168.1.19 with host name Cubian as a DHCP client.  In Chrome I entered 192.168.1.19 and went direct to the console.

However the Network settings on the console were 192.168.2.7 ;  255.255.0.0 ; and 192.168.1.1

So I changed the network settings on the miner and saved to 192.168.1.110 ;  255.255.255.0 ; and 192.168.1.1. So I saved the changes and shut down the miner.

I left my spare router settings to 192.168.1.1 ; 255.255.0.0 and  turned on the miner and the new IP does not work.  I rebooted my router and all I could see was my Laptop.  After some time the miner shows back up as 192.168.1.19 again as a DHCP client. 

It would appear that DHCP is configured on this, or the 192.168.1.19 is default and the setting changes made do nothing to the miner.  I have spent hours chasing my tail trying to figure this one out and no luck.



My last step in all of this was to put it online with my home network.  The only change I made to this router was the subnet to 255.255.0.0  When it is plugged into it I have nothing.  I tried several times rebooting the miner and the router, but the miner never shows up as a client.  I went back to the spare router and again after some time, the miner shows back up as 192.168.1.19.  I tired once again to change the IP in the console, and after rebooting the miner, this time it finally changed.

So just to make sure my home network router would see it for sure I created a manual IP with the MAC of the miner for the new IP I set.  And finally after several days and hours of for some reason magically it is working.

So much for Plug and Play.  Had I not had an extra router I don't think I would have ever got this working.

That's interesting, when I got my T110S, it was not DHCP but locked to the IP printed on the label.

Also tried this with three separate T110 and having no issues on this.

Having a hard time following your description, when you say console you mean the webgui?

Shouldn't the spare router settings should be 255.255.255.0 instead of 255.255.0.0 especially when your miner is set at 255.255.255.0?

Its probably just a typo in his account.

Ok. Next Question for you all running these.  This thing is HOT!  I mean when you touch the case it feels like you can cook on it.  The console says the temp is 96 degrees.  I have it in a room and temp in that room is 85.  Is this normal?

Yes, they run hot.  Even in a very cold room, mine hovers around 93C...

Keep in mind that the HashFast based devices have a temperature sensor integrated into the silicon die. They will read a much higher temperature than something with the main temperature sensor on the PCB and not on the chip itself. That's (one of) the reasons why something like the Bitmain S5 reads so much lower a temperature than a Spondoolies SP20.

YEY!!! I got my first payout this weekend.  I am using Eligius.  Now I see that we can enter more than one pool time.  My question is will this help or hinder mining. My thought process here is that if I mine more than one pool than my BitCrane miner resources are no longer dedicated to one place and mining would be slower.  Is that right or wrong?

Is it just me or do these mining boards look very similar to BFL's Monarch???

https://i.imgur.com/kvaZJbw.jpg

It will not make a difference, as those other pools act as backups should the first one ever go down. It does not load balance.

Only in as much as they are both rectangles and both use a few high power chips.

Please consider filling out a quick survey about my guides to help improve them! You'll be entered into a raffle to win 2x $20 vouchers as a thank you.
https://i.imgur.com/AXm1t8k.png
                              https://i.imgur.com/Rv2FyH4.png (http://goo.gl/Fkq40s)

I thought I read some where that when switched on the controller board will flash morse code of the NiC's Ip. I believe this is enabled on the T-110(s) ans would have also possible worked for you.

https://github.com/cubieplayer/Cubian/wiki/Get-started-with-Cubian

My buddy is letting me use/making me fix his Miner T-110. At frst the issue was that the web controller would stop giving access to the control pane/plane, So i attempted to simply update the syste, kernal, and packages.  Now he controller board does not see the usb mining cards at all and "lsusb" is giving errors about noy being able to display or load devices.  I think it would take long long time to go thru and figure wherre it all went so wrong and the best option is to just reimage the flash drive with the stock shipped SD Image.  Does any one know where i can snag it or can you send a copy of a clean working Image for the BitCrane T-110.  I have a few email in at support forBitCrane but have bot heard back yet. 

Heya also great overview the system Dogie if i get thus working and my buddy wants it back i probably gonna get a few. I like the Idea of stacking three but would they operate as a one worker cluster or just as three independent workers...

Again thank for any help on T-110 System Image.

MCBV ;)

I don't have a copy of the image, you'll have to get it from them. You can either set each unit up on its own worker account or combined. Separate is best as it allows you to track the performance (And problems) of individual units.

So is anyone out there overclocking this thing yet?  Any idea how high can you safely go with it?

I don't remember there even being clock controls via the UI, so you'd have to SSH to cgminer. There really isn't much headroom on these chips even if you had control, especially in any sort of ambient temperature. The chips end up thermal throttling quite easily.

You can.  I think I read that on the Bitcrane sitE.  So I Google how and found this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978309.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978309.0)

Yes you can SSH in but its still not going to get very far. There simply isn't enough headroom and even past the chip, the board components themselves are pretty stretched as it is.

I'm looking at getting one of these atm, do you think they will ever release upgrade packs like bitmain for these in the future? Seems like a great rig to waste in the future.

No this was a awesome looking rig but limited sales.   Most went with a more traditional fan miner.

I suggest C1 over this if you have to have watercooling.   But I honestly suggest stick with fan miners unless your just looking for project.  But most likely this one is a waste of time.

Yeah I just read that there was a scam or something with bitcrane on reddit? So guessing it wasn't a success. I would love to get an s3 or s5 but can't get anything in Australia that isn't the same as shipping costs. I currently have a choice between this and a s4 but live in a share house and concerned about noise.

What would you do?

Thanks!

I would avoid this rig that is for sure.  I would check local markets on getting one if shipping is to high.  Or you could ship to a hosting center  in a place cheaper.

Sadly not all places are viable to mine.  What is your electricity cost, and how high is shipping?

Currently electricity is free, shipping to Australia seems to sit around 100-250 at best $80 from China through a direct store.

If you have "free" electricity and can get around 100 even it would be a good deal on some.  I normally suggest older gear for free.  But if your paying a lot you might want to have something a littler newer as paying high shipping on old product does not make sense.

I would look for S5 gear or newer with shipping like that.   You might be able to find someone in a better location to ship in hardware sales. Post in there you want to buy miners list which one and see if anyone offers it closer.   Just make sure to use escrow.

I would avoid this rig that is for sure.  I would check local markets on getting one if shipping is to high.  Or you could ship to a hosting center  in a place cheaper.

Sadly not all places are viable to mine.  What is your electricity cost, and how high is shipping?
[/quote]

Currently electricity is free, shipping to Australia seems to sit around 100-250 at best $80 from China through a direct store.
[/quote]

If you have "free" electricity and can get around 100 even it would be a good deal on some.  I normally suggest older gear for free.  But if your paying a lot you might want to have something a littler newer as paying high shipping on old product does not make sense.

I would look for S5 gear or newer with shipping like that.   You might be able to find someone in a better location to ship in hardware sales. Post in there you want to buy miners list which one and see if anyone offers it closer.   Just make sure to use escrow.
[/quote]

Alright thanks for all your advice I'll keep looking! But will explore the possibilities with the s4 but would prefer and s5 for sure!

I don't want to ship to a data center as this is definitely starting at least as a hobby, I want to play with everything and fiddle and enjoy mining! :)

is it possible to connect these straight to a pc with?  i cant find mine on the network i think its stuck on previous owners setting...its really frustrating spent hours and still cant get a control panel ip to work...

Your best best I think is to try to find a backup image.  It appears to have a SD card on the controller board.  So I would find a backup, and try flashing SD (backup old just in case first).

But much better chance of that then finding  solution to hook to a regular PC.   I  think at least.

cool thanks i just opened it up and found the sd card location,,,,other ports its has is a mini usb port and a hdmi port when the bitcrane is running the hdmi screen displays this

ian GNU/Linux 7 cubian tty6
ian login:

but thats all it does not sure if previous owner is the reason why i cant conect to a ip control panel or not

any ideas where i can find a back up image to try on the sd card??  im not the most computer literate

I have not looked  for it.  It appears they still have a site up.  I would email or contact them see if they still provide it.

If no luck from company then hit the forums up trying to find someone else with one and ask them for a backup.  Might be a little tough as was not the most popular miner, was high priced in it's day.

think it might be (hopefully) my shitty old netgear router that has an ip of 192.168.0.1 and barely lets me change any settings.. which from what i can figure out is causing issues, i managed to connect the ethernet cable from a computer directly to the bitcrane and changing internet protocal properties 4 etc..and using windows command promp  typed   arp -a     and found the bitcrane control panel ip 192.168.1.201 and accessed it although i didnt want to mess with any settings on the control panel fearing i will never find it again lol......so now i either have to figure out how to use my router with this or get a new router which sucks but yeh this shit took me hours and hours i wanted to throw it and still havent sorted it or got it connected to the web  ??? >:( :-\

oh and if anyone wants to put one of these in there bedroom living room etc the noise is pretty bad.. yeh there watercooled but the fans are very loud louder than i expected

Winter is coming and I decided to get my T-110 out of storage and heat the sun room with it.

Only 1 out of 2 of the cards are hashing though. Any suggestions?

Likely premature death; these boards do not last long. If you can't get it started at a much lower clock speed then probably best to unplug it from the PSU and controller and leave it be. Not going to be worth your time and a 500W 24/7 heater will likely be plenty.

Hi Dogie and BTCtalk members.

First of all, great review from Dogie - loving that there is still some content around. Everything from BitCrane has virtually disappeared now they are defunct...

I own 4 BitCrane T-110 series miners, 2x T-110 and 2x T-110s.

The 2x T-110 run well, although I have had to underclock and overvolt them a little to run stable, my ambient temperature is around 35°C this time of year, and yes, that's in an air-conditioned room.
The 2x T-110s are non-functional however, despite my best efforts modifying the param.py and pools.conf.json files, and using HCM (HashFast Characterization Monitor) from SSH into the system on the cubieboard.

The T-110s miners both run for about 5 seconds, maybe completing up to 1000 work units, then reset and I end up in an endless loop of them resetting within the 5 second update.

Anyone else experience this, and more importantly did they overcome it?

For the time travellers; that sounds like dying PSU. My PSU in the T-110 died, I believe.

Thanks for that Dogie.

In the time since I posted my original reply (10 months ago) I have since acquired a further 3 x T-110 units, primarily for parts (as the seller did mention that they weren't working properly).
So I now have the parts of my 2x T-110s and 5x T-110 units, and I don't think any of all 7 of them work properly at all after going through last summer, so much so that I didn't even try using them during winter - that and I bought myself an Antminer S7, which does around 5x the hashing that these Bitcrane T-110 units did individually, for around 1600W compared to 1100W each for a T-110.

I will attempt to dismantle a couple of them, removing and swapping power supplies, cubieboards, and hashfast boards, to see if I can get at least one or both of the T-110s, and maybe a couple of the T-110 units working again.

If anyone else is still playing around with Bitcrane T-110 hardware, I'd be happy to hear from them!

Regards,

Christal