Bitcoin Forum

Earth Hour on Saturday, March 31st 2012

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Astronomy_Activities_2009/message/7361

That makes no sense, EskimoBob.

If you think you shouldn't mine because it's bad for the environment, just permanently turn off your rig. If you don't think it's a problem, keep your rig running through that hour.

I will shut my rigs down for an hour today......................so I can upgrade my network equipment and add more rigs!!! ;D

This is stupid, purely symbolic and wasteful of our natural recourses.  Power plants cannot be turned off for one hour and they will not be turned off since the operators know full well that consumption will pick right back up again after the wasteful symbolic hour.  During the hour of reduced consumption all the excess production is simply wasted.  Typical of this kind of idea - does exactly the opposite of what it is supposedly trying to do.

What I plan to do during this hour:  I will raise my clock rates, fire up additional AC and fire up all my spare cards at full capacity.

This is the most environmentally sound response to this stupid idea as it will utilize energy that would have otherwise been totally wasted.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

They actually tallied over 2 billion slips to confirm that number? Or is it just as much of a thumb suck as this whole idea.

Interesting how this is worded... "to show support for the cause of Climate change..."

Given that climate change is a completely natural cyclic state for our planet, and that artificially reducing our consumption of energy for 60 minutes would have a net zero effect on the planet, perhaps joining in this silly movement DOES support climate change. A lot of hot air being vented in support of a meaningless gesture.

Words to live by.

please spread this...  I can only do a couple mhash, Hopefully I have a chance at a bigger share of the blocks for today.

now if we could do a earth week, and drop the difficulty down...

LOL! No need to get your panties in a bunch :)

Ribuck, I turned my rig off long long time ago because it is pointless to mine at higher price per share than the market.

BurtWagner, because all the power lines terminate at time zone "borders"? :) Wow... good one!

So, like, 2 hours of average electrical down time? 3?

Do they shut nuclear reactors and coal plants down for three hours at a time, guys?
How about hydroelectric/wind/solar?

Why don't you use this hour to create cleaner energy sources? 2 billions person working for one hour makes 2 billions hours worked on the same problem. I'm pretty sure somebody could develop something useful.

Where are our roof mades of solar panels? The small local dam for hydro-electricity? Affordable windmill* that we can use on our rooftops?


*I'm not sure of the exact term, in French it's éolienne, the thing that spin with wind and make electricity :D

I think 1.99billion of those mentioned cant afford power anyways so they were included in the numbers. heh.

Pointless to mine? so you just instantly sell any coin you have?

Coal-burning power stations can't be turned off for just one hour, because they take time to get back up to operating temperature.

But hydroelectric and nuclear power stations can easily and efficiently be turned off for an hour (or, in most cases, even for just one minute).

Huh how da hell you shutdown a nuclear reactor for an hour? Decay will be for days.


And restart is a slow process...

Today I am meeting with a buddy that actually runs a few plants - I will ask him.

Lower the graphite control rods into the core. The reaction goes subcritical immediately. Nothing tricky here; this is high school physics.

Nuclear power stations are routinely used to handle the peaks in electricity demand, while coal-burning power stations handle the baseline load.

Once again you have summed it up perfectly.  Earth hour is pointless and doesn't actually do anything good for the environment.  Period.

Talked to my friend who is an electrical (power) engineer and works for a power company here in Colorado.  He agreed somewhat with me but I did learn some new facts.

If demand drops they will turn off the production that is easiest to turn off first.  So here is what will happen:

1) They will turn off all of their solar energy production.  These can be turned off with the flip of a switch.
2) They will turn off all wind generation stations.  These can be turned off one by one as the demand drops.
3) They will turn down (not off) their most efficient combined cycle natural gas generation plants - these can be turned down to about 60% without much of a penalty when restarted (reheated)
4) They will turn down the fuel flow to other older natural gas plants.
5) They will turn down the fuel flow to the coal fired plants.
6) If the drop it enough then they might consider turning down any nuclear power plants they may have.

Notice that 3) through 6) will never get turned off, just down, due to having to get them back up to temperature if turned off.

So, the consequnce of Earth Hour^TM is to shut off all the cleanest and most expensive power production and use the dirtiest cheapest power production.  Great for the power companies.  Maybe they are sponsoring it?

I was wrong about waste.  They will do all of the above to match the production to the demand.  There is very little waste during a smooth event like this.  A total drop or a huge spike is different.  So, unless we get everyone to turn off everything he expects just about zero effect, asside from those measures described above.

Since wind and solar power generation is essentially free, why do they even turn it off?

So when, Ideology meets Reality = FAIL

But 'maybe' the OP had 'shorted' the stock of the Solar and Wind power industries. Hmm...

Simple,

It is the easiest to turn off and on. Efficiency over time.

But if it's free to generate electricity with wind and solar, why does it need to be turned off, ever?  What good does it do to turn it off?

It is symbolic.  Assuming 10% participation they will hardly notice it.  If you get 50% participation they will handle it just fine.  If you were to get 90% participation (including real energy hogs like electric furnaces used to make steal, not just consumers, lights, etc.) they would have to scramble to handle the load swing.  It is only one hour.  It is per time zone from what I understand so it does not even affect the entire grid all at once.  Excess production may just be shipped off into another time zone.

Symbolic.

If solar and wind is free why isn't everything running on solar and wind?  The reason it that is it not free.  Wind has moving parts.  They wear faster under load so free wheeling or stoping the blade reduces wear.  The solar pannels themsleves wear at about the same rate whether producing or not (they do wear out) but not producing reduces wear on other components - especially the inverters.  Solar pannels produce DC and it has to be converted to AC.  Those inverters - especially huge comercial inverters - do wear when running and do not wear when turned off.

Solar and wind are not free.  In fact they are the two most expensive ways to produce electricity we have.

EDIT:  my comment on solar pannels applied to stationary pannels, not trackers.  Solar pannel wear is directly propotional to total solar flux.  So if a tracker is turned away from the sun to turn it off then the wear on the pannel itself can be mitigated.

Ok, good points BurtWagner, thanks for answering.  :)