Bitcoin Forum

I am Freeway and have been watching the boards and have attempted to reach a satisfactory payment arrangement with Shakaru to no avail.  We were his his roommates.  We are owed 7k plus due to his malpractice in his business ventures.  If anyone needs/wants to find him, that would be through me.  But so as not to just have hostile attacks against him, please go through me, as it will be  legal, and it will be damaging.

What I would like to accomplish.  I have an attorney that will per-sue this as a class action.  I would greatly prefer to recover my own debts, but since I am not a selfish person, I would also like to include yours. 

Please advise as to your debts.  Date occurred, amount paid, amount due, promises made, pm's if any, delays, etc., whatever info you have. Copies of block chains, notarized statements from your self.  Anything and everything.

You can pm or post it.  It will all be documented.

Thanks Freeway

Don't you already know about this:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.0

And this:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnzolfvAaL97dGlQZjZmcFMwTzlmbWJNUHdyZnM4M2c#gid=3

Why the new thread?

Of course I do.  I'm the one that powered things forward.  Or didn't you notice?  And where did you get the spreadsheet?  That was a private pm.

I am the only one in a position to find him directly.  We were his roommates.  Since no one else can accomplish debt collection, and I have been holding off on forceful tactics until he continued "dodge me" in his words, I am now taking it upon myself to pursue a possible class action not only on behalf of myself, but the btc community at large.  Once I start my legal case, if you guys are not on board, you will be left behind and your debts will go un -noticed.  Since I am going this route, I would like to collect as much info as I can to include everyone.

If everyone chooses to blow me off, so be it.  Your debt will be lost.  You are well advised to look me and my posts up.

EDIT:  Any more questions Burt?  Or are you as some say, Andrew in disguise just trying to make things difficult???  If so, thanks for drawing attention to my thread.

Freeway - making Shakaru look good since 2012 :D

seriously, who here is already more sick of freeway than of andrew? and in record time too.

edit: that came out a bit wrong... didn't mean to imply that i'm sick of andrew, but i sure am sick of freeway's barrage of posts.

If this is true..you are in cahoots with him, and helping him.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74926.0

If this is true..you have no faith at all..

Which is it???

it's too vague to be either true or false, so i'll ignore it like i ignored your PM and like i'm about to ignore your entire account.

i've chatted with shakaru over skype and offered general advice on a million different things from budgeting to health to psychology.

so to be clear, anything you say from this point will appear to me as "This user is currently ignored", so if i don't answer again, that's why.

If you follow this link:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.0

You will find this link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnzolfvAaL97dGlQZjZmcFMwTzlmbWJNUHdyZnM4M2c#gid=3 in the very first post in that thread.  It was put there by dollartrader.  The spreadsheet was produced by imsaguy.  Private PM, what the hell are you talking about?

That is all I was really saying - the information you need for your law suit is available at that link.  I was trying to help you out there.  Sheesh.

I find these comments directed at freeway pretty disturbing. Why bash someone who is trying to recover funds wasted by shakaru ? Not to mention how the hell cant shakaru have any of the funds available, did he really blast it all away and only then realised he had no funds available o_0

Makes no sense considering Freeway is putting in effort and shakaru is merely delaying consistently to meet her requests to meet and discuss the issue in person.

freeway has a right to recover her debt

but to me she's acting like a kicking screaming teenage brat that i just couldn't bothered dealing with (i.e. sick of reading it).

Burt, I'm sorry, I sent a spreadsheet tonight to someone via pm.  I did not closely look at this one and jumped to conclusions.  This has been a long road and it is late my time.  Again, I am sorry, and thank you.

And I guess since you are the adult, you are selling your debt on an auction.  I could help you to get more.  But you are impatient and unwilling to go the distance.

Thank you   :)

I really hope a proper law suit comes from this since I just dont see shakaru owning up to anything after reading everything he had to say in recent days.

It would atleast put bitcoin on the map regarding some legalities and users might start to think twice before wasting other peoples money the way it seems shakaru have gone about things.

Did you find a lawyer that knows about Bitcoins?  Any law suit related to Bitcoins should be very interesting.  Could be ground breaking.

i totally understand that some people feel that way, but it's just not me personally.

i'll always prefer handshakes and honour over signatures and lawyers.

if things go south, i deal with it myself and move on.

It will. Which I is why I started a new thread.  I am afraid some of the info that I will receive through 3rd parties may be compromised as I cannot verify chain of control.  Therefore I am requesting clean copies of everything that can be verified by you the owner/debtor, notarized even, then it can be verified again by forensics that it has not been altered.

DeathandTaxes has a good thread that I am following that can assist in making this a good case.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49854.msg832083#msg832083

I think the only reason payb.tc is attacking me is, he has a lot to lose, he is auctioning his debt, and he may have been falsely charged with Andrew.  dunno.  IMHO

I have a long time friend who has represented me before.  And would love to take this.  Could make him and BTC very big.  Just my opinion

Has he indeed filed for Chapter 13?


If so, it would seem everybody is out of luck. And anyone bidding on the auction should be made aware of it.

Otherwise this thing will be passed around forevarrrr.


Freeway,

  Don't take offense at attitudes. Your posts seem to have a ring of a kid going: Mommy, mommy, mommy. It causes headaches and people get tired of it.  Other people put time in on your behalf. You can't now complain they aren't doing enough or you want more.

Good Luck.

We are researching which is why it is taking me some time, and now I am just requesting whatever info here that may help.  I do not want to falsely represent anything.

Thank you.  I understand I have sounded bad at times, right now I am seriously gathering information.  I did play the little girl part to no avail, so now here I am.  It is all business.  The only way get Andrew to respond was to be the other way.  I am sorry, but i thought I would play the game.  Sorry I did.

There is no actual chp 13.  He said he was doing an online version of one with DollarTrader and payb.tc to reassure his creditors that he was not walking away.

DollarTrader has not responded to me, payb.tc is attacking me and shakaru is avoiding me. 

Shakaru - I know why.  I live down the street from him and we are friends with his family.  And he owes us around 7k, including 110bc.

payb.tc - he has the most to lose in the btc community.  And his debt is up for auction.  So??  I don't know?

DollarTrader - I think he is just watching..I would too

ah.. Ok. Thanks for the clarification.


lol, another for Bitcoin Firsts. The first online BTC Bankruptcy. Pretty good idea actually. Cheaper than lawyers too...

LMAO..thanks.  We will be sure to mention you  ;)

I really appreciate your efforts here freeway. Even though I have sold most of the debt shakaru owes me, he still owes me a I3 2100 CPU.

I am also of the opinion that shakaru needs to be brought to justice here. All of you talking about how he can just file for bankruptcy are wrong. That would probably have worked if he had run his business in an honest way, but what shakaru has done here is outright theft. He can not just file for bankruptcy and have all his problems go away.

It seems a lot of the people in this thread are not totally aware of the situation so here is a summary:
-August 2011 shakaru sold mining contracts for 45+GH/s, for a total of more than $20 0000.
-Shakaru also started the two GLBSE companies SDM and SDM.LEVA, I am not sure how much he got from this, but he never bought the mining equipment the company contracts stated he was supposed to buy. These contracts are very clear and shakaru took the money from the IPOs and used it on personal stuff. Clear theft.
-Only a few of the smaller contracts ever started up, but they did not run for long.
-I had paid extra to be able to log into my mining rig remotely. I tried to do this one day after the rig had not been working for a few days. What I found was the rig mining on shakaru's own deepbit account.
-Shakaru has given various excuses for the problems, often changing his story, blaming it on other people scamming him, blaming it on the electricity company etc. Many of the stories have been totally unrealistic and many of them have been exposed as pure lies. For example, he blamed the forum user mrbashfoo for running of with 4 4U racks of hardware, 15 x 5830 graphic cards and more, but it turned out the only hardware mrbashfoo had gotten from shakaru was some stuff he was going to throw away.
-Trying to get shakaru to pay his debt has been a pure nightmare. Him dodging PMs, e-mails and Skype IMs. Always lying about when he could send you a few coins etc.
-It turns out that in addition to selling the mining contracts he has also been taking loans from various forum members, even when he knew he could not pay them back.

From freeway we have learned:
-Shakaru stole rent money that was given to him, and did not pay the rent resulting in them being evicted.
-He has  spent a lot of money at the bar during this period.
-Shakaru bought a lot of very nice Christmas gifts this past Christmas.
-He never had mining equipment that could produce anywhere near the 45GH/s contracts he sold.
-At the moment he does not have anything of value or any mining rigs, he is broke.

All in all shakaru is a theif, pathological liar and a scammer. I do not think anything he says should be trusted. The only way I see him getting hold of any money to pay back his debt is if he runs another big scam here. That is why I am warning everyone about him. I do not like that he is running a trading bot at GLBSE and I think there is a good chance he will just steal all the money put into it.

At some point a person has to wonder... why should they/we trust you?  Some of your behavior does set off red flags.  At first you seemed normal and easy to get along with.  The longer you're around, the less I trust you.  You need to cut the rhetoric and threats out and stick to the facts.  

Second, if you are so worried about chain of custody, then perhaps you should have had better/more in depth conversations with those people who collected all this info.  At least see where we initially got our info.  Instead, you've thrown it all out completely and want to start from scratch.  In addition, you want it all via pm so no one can dispute/refute any claims.  Unless someone is going to assign you paperwork that allows you to act on their behalf (again, why should they trust you), they are wasting their time.  

If Shakaru has no money, how is supposed to pay?

Chapter 11 is debt consolidation, Chapter 7 is complete debt write off. You can try to get him on fraud charges, but I don't think that would easy at all. If this was in NYS, I could provide you with a lawyer. California bar exam is a bitch.
 

saw this via imsaguy's post... the way i see it, i only have 75 btc to lose (thanks brian).


absolutely nfi what this part even means, but it's throwing around these kind of unfounded/unproven rumours that make me really dislike you.

Wage garnishment, liens on his property (a car?), etc.

In most places, having no money is no excuse for taking someone's money and not paying it back.

Chapter 7, if approved by a court, completely eliminates most of debt (except student, some federal). Chapter 11 does exactly what you're referring to.

Of course Shakaru didn't think it through. It's silly to start a business without an incorporation (LLC or C corp) in US. This way only assets of the company are to be seized, well unless there was a clear case of fraud :-)

I am working on a new project for bitcoin, and I am in process of incorporating a new business. It's just a good business practice.

Indeed. Most people probably don't realize what it can do for you and how (relatively) easy it is.

Wether he files or not I couldnt care about, the problem is that even in debt he is again GLBSE listing a new project.

Im fairly certain in most countries if not all if you are liquidated/filing for bankruptcy, you cant go and start another potential debt based(investors money) company right of the bat, generally you must remain debt free for a couple of years and in our country that is 10years!

Great information, I will be sure never to do business with you since it seems you prefer solutions that easily removes all blame since the law allows you to.

Dont you believe in personal responsibility? Sad.

You only do business with private individuals?

Not 10 years, it's 0 years. 10 years stays on his credit report.

You should do research about incorporation. Except protection of personal assets, there are a lot more benefits. Here is an example:


I founded a company XYZ, I invested into that company $10000 of my personal funds. The company failed, now I can write off $10000 of my personal income.
Also taxation is lower for companies, it's an another benefit.


If I don't use all the benefits that US laws system provides, someone else would and gained an edge over me :-) Also bitcoin itself is a risky business, a layer of legal protection would be beneficial for everyone. If US gov decides to go after bitcoiners, they would have to deal with my company first :-)

FTR, I am with Payb.tc on this one. A law suit is a absolute last resort for a dead beat who isn't willing to/is trying to run away from a responsibility. For some reason I have serious doubts a court of law in the US is going to do a damn thing about contracts sold on a public forum for what they look at as monopoly money.
So far Andrew has paid in and shows signs that he wants to work this out. There are a lot of upset people that Andrew owes money to, but it's money people. It comes, it goes... Remember, $20,000 doesn't just appear from one person, most people take 15 years to pay that off with interest.

Andrew- Thanks for not running away from this, so far
Freeway- Take a breather, for now
Bitsinmyhead- Flies on walls don't talk, they buzz

No such requirement in the US once BK is discharged.  Of course investors should look at inability to pay debts (BK or not BK) as a warning sign.  Actually I haven't heard of any such requirement in any country so while it may exist it isn't very common.  The whole point of BK (generally speaking) is to write off debt which can't be recovered and allow the entity/individual to move forward.

What I am actually interested in trying to find would be the block chains showing where the money went once it was in  Andrews hands.  We know for a fact it was sent to him.  We know some was sent back to the original investors.  But if we can show the majority was withdrawn directly by him, or used by him online for misc purchases un-related to his op, we have a case where a legal money judgement can be obtained along with wage orders, in case he continues to give promises with no results.

Well, if you had read the thread, you'd see where people listed the addresses they sent to and the address to which they received or were supposed to have received.  Not all of it was done via btc however, some was via Paypal.  Has your lawyer researched the dispute resolution clauses in Paypal's terms of service? What about interstate debts?  I think you're going to find that including the bitcoin piece of this in your legal case is going to drastically complicate things.  Its already been established that payb.tc is owed the largest sum and at the moment he doesn't seem interested to go along with your stuff.

Which is why I did state earlier we are doing a lot of research before we do anything.  I know that Paypal and interstate transfer are included.  What we don't understand is how to link btc chains work and how to link them.

Sounds like you have a lot of research ahead of you. Unfortunately, it is extremely complicated.

To get you started: There is only one blockchain, and it contains a single ledger of all transactions. You can explore it here: http://blockchain.info/ or here: http://blockexplorer.com/

   Bitcoin is an alt currency/community experiment. It is the Wild Wild West of a community currency without boarders. There are the traditional ways of dealing with these imperfections and there will be new ways of dealing with them. If the BitCoin is considered just a currency pegged to a traditional fiat, then relying on the traditional systems will work (and not work).

Freeway,

   There is a reason Business usually pays out 10 - 25 K with minimal interrogatories. Because it is cheaper to pay the litigant than it is your lawyer. If you want a class action against shakaru and evidence including linking the chain transactions, I am sure someone will take you up on it. Or try at least. But, it will cost you a fortune.

This is a new world or old world in finance. The community pretty much relies on letters in a nick, post counts, past deals with other pseudo anonymous nicks, and emailed proof of identity. To me shakaru is just letters in a nick name on a internet forum.

  So, how does one deal with that with any confidence? I would suggest making use of the gpg nicknames to at least ensure that you are dealing with the same person to a reasonable standard. Then that begs to question, why would anyone lend money (BTC) to nothing except a nick name?  Well the reasonable wouldn't. However, if the bar to entry in these transactions is significant, it is entirely possible that it could work. i.e. A credit system that starts at 0 and with time and good history opens up a more traditional system of loaning. However, emphasis must be put on this reputation so it is so hard to gain that one fears losing it. The <nick> essentially must become an alter ego to the person that the person who owns it respects and fears losing its reputation. In essence, you are dealing with just the <nick> and not the alter ego person.

 Of course, there is a meeting of these two spheres because of the need for traditional fiat currencies. At a point, these spheres must touch so there is a mixture of real world systems and virtual systems. The intersection of these spheres is sometimes hard to define. vampire is in one sphere and uses traditional systems for arguments. He seems to me wouldn't invest in shakaru; he would invest in shakaru's real company. This can be done by looking up companies on the various Secretary of State office in our country and their counter parts in other countries. GLBSE and certain threads here are investing in the virtual sphere, relying on <nicks> and promises.

   I am for the creation of the new system. It opens up a world of business denied to millions of people. Why should only the big and powerful get to take advantage of 'loop' holes? If GE and big companies are allowed to do Double Irish and Dutch Sandwiches, why shouldn't you be able to do so also? Typically governments being lobbied by big companies will put pressure on up and coming companies to prevent them from taking a market share. See this is where something went wrong. Build a better 'mouse trap' today and you either get sued, fined, taken over, or imprisoned. Or, you cave to venture capitalist and sell out. Small Businesses here are in a decline and new creation is down. This isn't because that people don't want to try. It is because they fear trying.

  Freeway, you and others have become a failed leg in this experiment. Good will come out of it, hopefully. I've seen the tendency to fall back on traditional systems. But, IMO, you yourself know this won't work. Why?, because if you were going to sue IRL, you wouldn't be here pleading for help. Your lawyer, might be.

In my opinion, this can be turned into something good. A credit system that has a high bar for entry and relies on a system of gpg <nick> identity can be formed. Others are working on a credit system and I am dabbling in one. My system is harsh tho. One failure to pay will significantly hurt the <nick>. This will be an affront to traditional methods of finance and governments. Expect, resistance from 'them.'  They all want to know 'who' and 'where', but in reality it doesn't matter as long as the bills get paid.  When I take $5 out of my bank, I don't tell the teller that I am going to buy a 'Big Mac.'  

I am sorry for yours and others loss here and that I have co-opted your thread for my rant but something here tweaked an interest.

I am however, surprised that shakaru hasn't received some type of 'Tag', maybe not the 'Scammer Tag' but maybe a Defaulter Tag, or something appropriate.

Good Luck,

tl;de      hmm.. does 'to long';'didn't edit' exist?

No dog in this fight, but a small suggestion for the combatants, if I may? Invest the time to study up on a class action, the chances of this issue being certified as a class are slim and none, and slim is on his way out of town. You don't need to convince a tech-aware lawyer friend, you need to compel a Judge to certify the class. Which isn't going to happen. And even if you do, all that will ever end up happening, years or decades from now, is that you may get a judgement against shakuru that will give the lion's share of any settlement to the lawyers involved. And if just one creditor chooses to insert their own lawyer into the process, they double their take, and your lawyer gets half, which makes this precedent-setting opportunity that much less palatable. Especially given that the prime candidate for Lead Plaintiff in the Class is someone who is not seeing eye to eye with the proposal right now.

Then, settlement in hand, you march down to the Sheriff and demand satisfaction... what are you going to get? Some used cables and power supplies? Shakuru appears to have essentially nothing left. In fact for under a thousand bucks he could own the majority of the debt and kill the Class by himself without lifting a finger, just objecting to the certification. And what is your case predicated upon? Ah, yes, bitcoins! A non-tangible asset, with no physical measure of value other than a perceived value based on anonymous transactions and "hashing". Is there a contract to enforce? Is there something that a judge could look at, or a jury could consider? The rent issue probably has merit, but won't get you a class action going, in California $7,000 worth of debt is actually a small claims court action. And small claims won't let you aggregate these claims into a class.

Sucks to be ripped off, especially by someone you consider a friend. Even worse when that friend violated the trust and the friendship of a community like this one. But other than branding the scammer with a richly deserved scammer tag, there is essentially nothing that can be done in a court of law to compel re-payment of debt of this type. Having your Uncle Vinny pay him a visit and suggesting a re-payment schedule that will keep all limbs intact and functioning? Maybe. Asking the courts of California to toss this miscreant into debtors prison and seize his car, strip him naked and set him at hard labor? Unfortunately not going to happen.

With that in mind, who's up for paying uncle Vin to go work him over? Could even make it a share on GLBSE :P

Loup why inject facts into a very good rant.

My take.  Creditors likely are getting next to nothing anyways.  Getting lawyers involved all but guarantees creditors will get less than nothing (pay out more in lawyer fees than is ever recovered).  Can't get blood from a stone folks.   Granted I haven't followed this "saga" closely but my understanding is Shakaru has no stable high income employment, no assets, no real estate, is behind on rent, lives (or lived) in a self described slum, etc.

I mean where do you think these tens of thousands of dollars are going to come from?  Forced human organ donation?

Here here!!   


Edit: lol

or

Hear hear!!

*Hear

The uncle Vin option would be a lot cheaper, while providing some level of satisfaction, could we get him (uncle vin) to take a few pics?

I too think this is a fairly hopeless exercise, except for the principle of it. But it'll be an expensive principle to pursue, and I doubt most people will want to.

I'd prefer it if the Uncle Vinny suggestions were left off the thread, though. I know people are joking, but suggestions of physical violence (or harassment) just lower the level of discussion, and give detractors more shit to be taken out of context about the "lawless" bitcoin community.

This was a joke?

I hope so.

Go Uncle Vinny! Vinny 2012!

Ah, but you can get blood from a turnip - just insert the proper gene sequences into the turnip DNA (was the subject of my final paper in my intro to genetic engineering class in colllege).

If not, the moderators don't take kindly to exhortations to violence on the forums.

Omigod! If we cannot call out to the satirical spirit of our pretend Uncle Vinny to handle issues when we (as a community, not "we" as in trying to include myself in this group of rightfully pissed off creditors...) when we have gone and given many thousands of dollars worth of value to a cheat, and PRETEND that we might have somebody actually threaten to break somebody's limbs over that debt, then I fear, dear friends, that this bus has taken a very, very wrong turn into Politically Correct Land.

If the Moderators ever have reason to not take kindly to any of my exhortations, those advocating fantasy Cosa Nostra violence, encouraging euthanasia of the intellectually challenged, stout caning of scammers, and supporting ferret cage match death sport... well, the Moderators know how to contact me and correct me. I suspect those self-same Moderati understand that my next thrust of the tongue-in-cheek rapier will be visited upon them.

This thing that Shakuru has done sucks hugely. That goes without saying. Some of the hyperbole surrounding it is over the top, but not unjustified. I merely rise to the occasion to cast a little light on the proposed class action suit as resolution concept. It ain't gonna work.

'Nuff said.

You thrust your knowledge of the vernacular around like a champ. Do you offer lessons?

http://toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/WordFighter.jpg


:)

witnessed.

Fair enough :)

Out of everything said here today, this comment made me just sit back and smile.  This really is The Wild West.

There is a tremendous amount of good information, thank you.  I definitely have a lot of reading to do. And some other interesting and even amusing stuff.

As far as my attorney, should this go that direction, he is a personal friend that is doing this as a favor to me.  Preferably, Andrew comes up with a legit repayment plan and sticks to it.  Last he said to me was he is flying to Seattle next Sunday or Monday for a job that is supposed to pay for most of the debt as well as start a continues flow of btc and he is also waiting for payb.tc's auction to end to be able to lay out a structured plan with a chapter 13 like build to it.  So, we will be waiting for awhile yet.

I agree a class action is not realistic, but what can happen is a group of plaintiffs who have proof of contracts and payments to him, cash, btc or otherwise, can compile a claim together to obtain a money judgement against future wage assignments.  And I say future because there is nothing to be taken from him now.

Again, thanks for the pile of night stand reading.   :D

She was Shakaru's roommate after all  ;D

Touche'

Following tainted coins is not an easy undertaking.
Good luck with that.

Thanks.  The challenge is actually quite fascinating to me.  But in the end there will be the cash deposits and transfers, paypal records, credit card transfers, etc., Just not much hope of ever collecting though. 

Paying for violence to recover money :/     This is the GLBSE and Intersango way?   Hmm... interesting.

I can see why this would concern you...

Please notice this in my comment above:
 :P <=== means tongue in cheek, not to be taken literally, or out of context.

I've been hearing a lot about shakaru lately on these forums. The threads I mostly see these days tend to be about owed debts or this thread for instance.I'm clueless about what happened to shakaru.Can some1 get me up to date?

Read the link in my signature.

Once upon a time...

There was a Nigerian Prince named the Barron. The Barron was in search of his coin...



Hey, the Barron == Shakaru ?

Perhaps a better question would be to ask, what has Shakuru done? Or not done? Like paying his debts yet, and not be completely upfront when soliciting new funds, and apparently reluctant to keep open communication with his legions of creditors. He has also offered several pay for mining service options allegedly without owning any of the equipment required to provide the hashes sold.

And he did it all in a very public way, which creates a very uncomfortable situation for that very same public. Lots of folks are owed lots of money. Lots of folks defended him or spoke in support of him in differnet scenarios, and the long view seems to make a lot of that look like misplaced trust.