Bitcoin Forum

I have a hard time following the logic when people make a statement that Bitcoin will replace all fiat currency.  In my world view, they coexist and will continue to coexist.  I can see where some fiat currencies die and Bitcoin fills in the gap, but not on a global level.  Your thoughts?

Well everyone has their opinion and is entitled to it. I think it'll be a very long time before any crypto replaces fiat currency, largely in part because the central banks and authorities wont want to give control of the production up.

I think the people who go around saying Bitcoin will replace all money, that it will end wars, collapse banks and governments, etc. are slowing the adoption of Bitcoin.  When people hear this stuff they often disregard Bitcoin as anything serious and it confuses people as to what Bitcoin actually is.  The worst are the people who have some political cause, claim Bitcoin is part of that cause, and try to imply that anyone who uses Bitcoin agrees with them and supports their cause.

Rubbish, how they even consider something like bitcoin to fiat.

Yes, cryptocurrencies will coexist with fiat currencies, just like the automobile coexisted with the horse and buggy.  The transition doesn't happen overnight, it takes time.

Bitcoin won't replace Fiat but will be used for most of the transactions, we will have to wait several years before it will happen.

I don't think it need to replace fiat, but it may eventually. For the time being I think it will coexist peacefully and grow. I think bitcoin could exist alongside all other currencies as like a one world currency where you could spend it all over the world. I think that would be pretty cool.

+1

It may be faster than we think at the moment. Apart from the major savings in the cost of handling/recording/destroying/reduction in fraud ( eventually)/storing etc there are mounting political issues which suggest (eventual) monetary reform would be a good option for Politicians to deflect anger that results from food and utility inflation of 20% + in 2014 due to their irresponsible attitude in "printing" fiat. Once cryptocurrency is perfected it would be a great option to adopt it by issuing their own ( as they will claim it to be so much better for the Nation..which it is when perfected)

Do you have a good solid reason why they should continue to exist? Do you think they'll perhaps adopt cryptocurrency innovations to stay ahead of the curve and survive ? Or do you reject the idea of bitcoin/alts overtaking fiat because it seems too radical.

Even if Bitcoin and altcoins match the volume of creditcards, we should be happy.

Perhaps bitUSD will replace Bitcoin. bitUSD combines the convenience of crypto with the stability of the dollar.

Bitcoin could ultimately replace fiat, but both will coexist for many years. The reason for this possible outcome is that if you can pay everywhere with bitcoin there exists no advantage to use and hold fiat. With bitcoin you can do everything you can do with fiat. On top of that you can do many things easier (for example money transfers) and you don't risk inflationary devaluation by holding bitcoin.

When bitcoin reaches majority adoption central banks might realize that they've lost control of monetary policy. In turn they might fade out the fiat system, because they only incur costs from it without influencing economy.

ya.ya.yo!

i dont think that this will happen in the next 30-40 years. instead they will go side by side for a long time.

when you take into account the Zimbabwe dollar saga, and now africans are stepping into non government currencies like bitcoin/mpesa.. you have to ask yourself what will the rest of the world do when you cant even buy a loaf of bread for less than 2000 USD/GBP

I also do not think that this will happen since both are better to co exist.  ;)

It's really just a simple waiting game. There is a strong need for a world reserve currency (currently filled by USD, and somewhat my EUR). Fiat currencies have a 100% failure rate, and an average life expectancy of 27 years. Even USD we use today is only about 45 years old, since it switched from being a gold-backed currency to free floating fiat in 1971. So as long as you believe that bitcoin, being an open-source free-to-innovate platform, can continue to exist and be innovated on top of, it should simply outlast all other fiat currencies one by one, with the countries of those failed currencies adopting both bitcoin and the last world reserve currency. If USD collapses within a few short years, with bitcoin adoption still being low those countries will adopt both bitcoin and EUR. If USD lasts for a few more decades, most countries will probably end up using USD and BTC already, and will switch exclusively to BTC as soon as USD dies. At that point, BTC will have completely replaced all fiat.

There's also the black hole fiat collapse scenario, where if bitcoin gains about 50% of world-wide adoption, where it will not make a difference for a merchant or person whether he receives USD or BTC, at that point BTC's technological advantages over USD will kick in full force, people will start preferring BTC, and as a result, the balance of use will tip greatly in BTC's favor. This also means that with more and more people choosing to take BTC, BTC adoption and price will suddenly skyrocket, people will start dumping dollars to switch to BTC, which will make BTC price go up even faster, which will cause more people to switch, over and over in a self feeding cycle, with BTC literally sucking out all the wealth from the USD in a very short period of time. The 50% adoption rate is the "event horizon" in this black hole scenario, and if this happens, it will happen VERY suddenly and VERY quickly, likely causing a whole lot of damage to people too slow to keep up in the process.



As Andreas says, Bitcoin's political cause is neutrality, while the world's political cause is SEVERELY skewed to the side. So, in that kind of a world, just being neutral seems like being politically radical. Kind of like just being neutral to everyone and treating everyone equally was a radical political stance at a time when some people were slaves.

Replacing Fiat is not a peace of cake. Bitcoin may become more preferred currency over fiat after few years but reaplacing fiat is not possible in even 100 years.

because they think it will save us from the great recession, dunno if this will come true but, bitcoin is doing well for now, it's a good safe-haven asset

As Andreas says, Bitcoin's political cause is neutrality, while the world's political cause is SEVERELY skewed to the side. So, in that kind of a world, just being neutral seems like being politically radical. Kind of like just being neutral to everyone and treating everyone equally was a radical political stance at a time when some people were slaves.
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There is a big difference between a radical political stance and going around acting like a screwball.  If the goal is to increase the usage and importance of Bitcoin then you are not going to achieve that goal with a bunch of hyperbole and nonsense.  That drives people away and makes it difficult for people trying to increase adoption.  Using Bitcoin in itself is not a political stance of any kind.  Now you may want to use Bitcoin as a tool to achieve some goal because it has more options than other payment instruments but it does automatically meant you agree with anything.  That is like saying that everyone who uses the USD agrees with the policies and politics of the USA.

For me it's a very simple matter. Nation-state fiat scrip is a giant scam, all of it is eventually worthless after X # of decades. Even nations with the BEST of intentions (few and far between) cannot help but inflate their currency, eroding its value.

From a financial perspective: All empires crumble into the dust of history, eventually. Which means sooner or later your descendants will be left holding the bag of that worthless inheritance you left them. Bitcoin is the opposite, it can only gain value over time.

From an ethical perspective: Nations require violence to keep their currencies valuable, bitcoin does not.

Horse and buggy wasn't a scam causing billion to wallow in slavery-like conditions, though. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0)

Nothing will stop that disaster..they are only delaying the inevitable by printing because the prefer ...Not on My Watch.. so the problem gets bigger and is passed to the next set of people...until a total breakdown occurs as it nearly did in 2008 . It is likely that from the ashes of such an event cryptocurrency on a National scale will be introduced and supported..before that there is a 50/50 chance that there will be a gold backed CNY which will severely erode /destroy the $'s reserve currency status and that comes a step closer next month when the Shanghai gold exchange goes international and price fixing.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-20/china-becoming-global-gold-hub-and-gold-price-discovery-centre

http://www.zerohedge.com/search/apachesolr_search/gold%20china%20reserve%20status

If the USA knows this and fears it (of course they do!) a sudden monetary reform switching to a cryptopound /peso/mullah/dosh/thingy (not dollar as it is stigmatized) with accompanying super hype may save their @rse

I think people believe this because they believe it will get us out of the mess our Country is in regarding the recession and problems with debt we have. It will be a long time and it may never happen that bitcoin will replace fiat and even if it did what is to say it definitely would get us out of our problems? It may help but to completely eliminate problems is something I can not see happening, at least not yet.

Bitcoin could recplace completely FIAT only if the devs will fix some issues like the slow transaction times.

The volume will increase dramatically in the near future:
Bitcoin doesn't need to replace fiat, since paper money is going to collapse "smart people" will need a way to protect their wealth.
As long as digital currency has a modest % of global trade, then the volume of transactions will be huge.

The process of replacement is proceeding at different rates for different denominations of currency.  But the trend is of more news stories, greater public awareness, more merchant acceptance, higher value, and less price volatility.  These trends will continue.  The toothpaste cannot be put back in the tube.

Not the logical people believe what u r assuming as people's belief. Bitcoin will take over the online version of FIAT in near future, but uprooting it from its physical existence is a long game.

As long as governments pay out and ask for payment in their own currencies then they won't be going anywhere.

Perhaps the situation will reverse and people will be grumbling about how hard it is to convert back to fiat when it's tax time.

You think 1000-2000 years.

There will still be some people who use fiat currencies.

Would you like me to mail you a letter with more thoughts on this?

Or you could read my editorial in the newspaper the next time you sit down and flip through the pages.

If Bitcoin ever did become mainstream do you really think fiat would still be used?

Just like my 75 year old mother likes to send letters once or twice a year...some people will enjoy using their dollars (though it will probably be hundreds of dollars) to buy things. They will eventually go the way of those that still paid for things in gold pieces until fiat replaced them.

because not all people are dumb to understand that bank create money with credit = DEBT
well, it's not a problem if INFLATION could be freeze account in bank and house ...

good point : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY&feature=youtu.be

I don't know about that. 100 years is a very long time.  just think how long ago and primitive was 1914.

This!  :)

History proves otherwise.  Think Zimbabwe, Weimar, Argentina, etc...

Hey! Stop that! You're going to scare the sheeple!  :)

It almost certainly will. Governments will always force it's citizens to pay taxes to help pay for things like roads, national infrastructure and national security. The government will be able to exert it's influence to both pay for these things in fiat and to collect tax revenues in fiat.

It would be possible for bitcoin to replace fiat in very small countries when the government does not have a lot of power (due to the economy is very small), but bitcoin will not be able to replace any major fiat currency.

no one knows for sure how bitcoin could replace fiat until we set up bitcoin island or city to see if the idea can turn into reality

I think it is next to impossible for BTC to completely replace fiat, especially with how much resistance is put forth by the governments in control.

At best I think BTC will be the default alternative alongside fiat as a payment option

The only way it would get adopted for everyday use in the world/or usa, is if there was hyper inflation. I think that bitcoin will be more popular than paypal in our lifetimes, but it wont replace fiat in the near future, or hell, even in the next 100 years. We have to have something to give it value, right now, its worth 500 us dollars. if there wasn't a us dollar, what would you give me to buy it? It would take my employer to pay me in bitcoin, etc. so, I dont think it was made to replace fiat, just an easy way to control your wealth and easily transfer money. But Fiat is here to stay...

After the collapse of fiat, precious metals will become the main way how to value things again, and Bitcoin as convenient worldwide currency. I would take your gold for my Bitcoin, it would be complicated physicall trade, but once you get Bitcoin, you can use it so easily  ;)

Not sure if you are being sarcastic but if you show a video like that to a new user most will immediately lose interest and think it is some kind nonsense.  That is probably the number one complaint I hear from new users looking for info.  They often complain when they look for info about Bitcoin they are directed to some 30-45 minute video filled with a bunch of political ideology.  In general, people want to know how to donate $2 for their favorite charity or tip someone on discussion board, they don't want some monetary policy discussion.  If start talking about collapsing governments/banks you might as well forget it, most people will never listen. 

I agree. I think that bitcoin will be very widely used for a lot of commerce but will unlikely be able to replace fiat anytime in our lifetimes. I think it should be noted however that paypal does do billions of dollars in transactions every year, so even getting close to the amount of transactions that paypal handles would be very positive for bitcoin.

M-pesa is not a currency.  Its a mobile  payment system launched by Vodaphone.  Stop fear mongering so you can pump bitcoin

Anyone who says "I don't think bitcoin will replace fiat in our lifetimes" is quite literally saying "I don't think USD will collapse in our lifetime." I'm not 100% convinced it will, but I'm not sure USD can handle another 97% drop in value, with the debt it's based on going up from $15trillion to $150trillion, if it continues to rise at the same rate it has for the last many decades. There just isn't enough wealth in the world to keep it going like that. Then the only question is what happens when US is suddenly forced to stop borrowing to support its USD...

People don't believe it will replace fiat but they believe that bitcoin will get accepted widely as fiat is accepted.Like people use credit cards,we will be able to pay off with bitcoin onto the stores

 Your perspective on this issue is noted but the general overview states it all with the growth and expansion of the bitcoin network.

Its only an opinion. Even at a good exponential rate, such things won't happen. More time to go for such replacement.

It all has to do with the big bankers and big business - the Elite - trying to take control of the world with a tight fist.

Most major nations of the world have a reasonable amount of freedom for their people. But factions among the Elite want more for themselves. Smaller big business people want a lion's share, as well. The greed is causing nations to fight. This is part of what will bring down the banking system. We see it happening right now with the Russia/China natural gas agreement being done without using the Dollar, the world currency.

Bitcoin won't take the place of the currencies because Bitcoin is so great. If Bitcoin DOES replace the currencies, it will be because the currencies have crashed, and the people need something.

If the crash of the currencies brings down the whole industrialization of the world, so that there are no more broad, worldwide communications, the places where communication remain alive, will each have their own blockchain fork as people in those separate areas continue using Bitcoin. If the world ever gets back together after that, multiple blockchains might make Bitcoin crash.

:)

Bitcoin wont replace fiat, possible in american countries but I highly doubt that happening in asian and african countries.

However the replacement seems flawed too. It won't happen in next 100 years.

Exactly,the central banks and authorities will not want the baton of power to shift not withstanding the popularity Bitcoin is gaining.Thus,BTC can never over shadow fiat.

Bitcoin won't be able to replace upto an extent that you people are thinking. Imagine what will happen to the currency of a country in case of serious natural disaster..if all their btc is gone then their currency crashes? OFC not..that's why it won't happen. The country will surely keep some stock reserved in physical form.

Just because there are more dollars in circulation does not mean the value of each dollar will decrease. This is similar to how the price of bitcoin does not decrease when new coins are created via block rewards every day. As long as the economy keeps growing the overall value of the dollar/whatever currency will continue to grow.

Also by your own logic a 10x increase in the USG debt would cause the dollar to fall by 90% not 97% (see above to counter this logic).

Banks and authorities will need money to keep their currencies propped up and bitcoin down. Where will they get that money, if bitcoin starts taking away a whole lot of their revenue?


Tat's true, there's an interplay between inflation, tax revenue, and growth rate of national debt. If inflation and national debt grow at about the same rate, we could go on for ever. ditto for tax revenue. But tax revenue is unlikely to go up (thanks to bitcoin it is much more likely to go WAY down), and our national debt has been growing much faster than inflation. If that continues, either out lenders will not want to borrow any more, because we would have reached the debt point where all we can afford is interest on the outstanding debt, or they will ask us to pay a higher interest rate on any new debt, which would force us to inflate faster to be able to afford that debt, which would in turn make our lenders ask for an even higher interest. If the system was balanced it would work, but it's not, and with our perpetual tax less, spend more political culture, I am not sure it can ever be fixed (what politician would risk cutting programs or raising taxes of his own constituents?)


$150 trillion was just a guess. It may be going up faster or slower, but I wasn't trying to show exact calculations and balances there. Sorry, my bad.

too early to think about it
if you would tell me that crypto will replace dollar i would say:ha-ha
may be in 30-50 years it could change

Inflation will rise when the supply of money rises (along with people's willingness to spend money) faster then the supply of goods and services (generally economic output). So for inflation to even be a concern, people will need to be willing to spend their money in the first place. Once people are wanting to spend money, if economic output is rising at a similar pace that money supply is rising then we will not see inflation, or will see a lower amount of inflation.

No they don't.
There are many many fiat currencies currently in existence, and those haven't failed.
Your statement boils down to "Fiat currencies that have failed have a 100% failure rate", which is content-free.
On the same basis:
"Democracies have a 100% failure rate"
"Countries beginning with M have a 100% failure rate"

Money (Paper) is being printed in huge amount daily, not only by gouverments but also counterfitters. This will couse deflation of value and public distrust of paper money.

Bitcoin will be replacing paper money, may it be in it's current form or another, in 10-50 years.

Regretfully yes they do eventually fail.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678512.msg7692168#msg7692168



All fiats die..all fiats die.....btw all fiats die!!!

 Dollar is in decline and will eventually disappear . It may well take a few decades for that.  I suspect cryptos whether bitcoin or Government/ financial Institution created will replace all fiats over time as they are just BETTER in so many ways and less expensive to use.


"Every 30-40 years the Reigning Monetary System Fails and has to be retooled"

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/08/average-life-expectancy-for-fiat.html

According to a study of 775 fiat currencies by DollarDaze.org, there is no historical precedence for a fiat currency that has succeeded in holding its value. Twenty percent failed through hyperinflation, 21% were destroyed by war, 12% destroyed by independence, 24% were monetarily reformed, and 23% are still in circulation approaching one of the other outcomes.

The average life expectancy for a fiat currency is 27 years,



If you read through the thread it was suggested that the British pound was the longest lasting and  still in existence but the answer to that was ..It is not the same as it was and has been   monetarily reformed  on the gold standard/ off the gold standard/ decimilization  so its not the same fiat even though it has the same name.

Well one of the reasons might be that the system that we have here is damaged from inflation.
The financial system is breaking down. What happens when the $ loses most of it value and you have 1,000,000 Bills?
I'm not saying that Bitcoin shall replace it, but I'd like to see it as an option.

Digital currencies will replace monetary paper it's already happening in countries like Sweden even as we speak
Banks are not taking money because it takes a lot of time to process and is less commonly used in the information age as more data is digitized we will likely see more uses for digital currencies and that is why I think it will replace fiat.

http://news.yahoo.com/sweden-cash-king-no-more-082544562.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-10/era-of-paper-money-dies-out-in-sweden-as-virtual-cash-takes-over.html

+1   We don't yet know if they will all eventually be crypto. and there may well be an interim digital only phase .but I expect crypto to be the final outcome somewhere down the road.

That same applies to "Democracies have a 100% failure rate"

And to take your source:

War and independence are not failures of a currency, but of a state. (Even if you consider Independence to be a failure?)
So 12+24+23 = 59% of fiat currencies did not fail due to their 'fiat-ness', according to your own source.
And does the 24% include, for example, the currencies that were abolished to form the Euro? Did the Deutschmark really 'fail'?

In fact, as I don't think their are any non-fiat currencies left (?), a more accurate statement would be that "100% of non-fiat currencies fail", surely?

Still being in existence is not proof that they will always be in existence, especially in light of dozzens that failed throughout history, versus the handful that still exist. Many of those that currently exist are extremely new too (Euro is about 20 years old, USD as a fiat is only about 45 years old). Commodity based currencies, on the other hand, don't fail, and just get supplanted by something better.

I don't know about democracies, since some failed and others have just been conquered and wiped out, but empires historically do have a 100% failure rate.

As for wars, that's not just "country was conquered," but likely includes "currency was used by country to pay for war, leading to high inflation and collapse. For USSR, the crappy economy was one of the reasons their currency failed, them printing and spending it like crazy to build up their war machine is another.

Most anarchists claim that Fiat will continue to coexist along side crypto-currencies at least as long as nation states exist(thousands of years - forever).

The argument is Bitcoin can possibly end wars, not end all wars.(Reduce certain types of wars dependent upon funding through debt). Any student of history recognizes nation states collapse on their own quite easily with or without Bitcoin. Bitcoin could accelerate certain nation states imploding as it allows ease of capital flight vs other commodities like gold.



Bitcoin is neutral , but at a protocol level has many characteristics which are anarchistic and facilitate anarchism. Bitcoin can be used by individuals and governments of any political ideology. Unfortunately, Bitcoin has properties which also undermine the ways in which certain governments fund themselves and "regulate" their citizens. There are many different ways Bitcoin could have been designed to have all the advantages of a digital and programmable currency without these properties that undermine nation states.

A separate argument is whether it is wise from a tactical approach to discuss Bitcoin's political implications. Personally, I think the argument is moot because Bitcoin has enough value where people will eventually be drawn to adopt it despite it being created by crypto-anarchists with political motivations.
 

That applies equally well to currencies or democracies :)

Many nations used to have commodity based currencies. Few (None?) do now.
So either they failed, or you think the fiat currencies that replaced them were better?


If you wait long enough, everything has a 100% failure rate, that is the point.
Eventually every star in the universe will run out of fuel.
Does that mean that stars have a 100% failure rate?

In my opinion Bitcoin will not replace all FIAT currencies, If crypto currency will replace FIAT one day It will not be Bitcoin. For the next 20 + years I don't see anything happening for FIAT.

Both? Note many of us don't support fiat nor democracies.


They were better. It is safer and easier to carry a paper note than gold coins or gold dust. The problem wasn't with gold backed notes themselves, but the lack of trust in people who were issuing them. Plus democracies that realized it's worthwhile for them to inflate money to give it away as social programs, in order for the voters to keep voting for them.



Has the horse and buggy failed? What about the fax machine? Or the musket? Good technologies and ideas survive, and get replaced, but still work. Gold still works. Fail implies "breaks and stops working." If you wait long enough, everything will get replaced by something better, but not everything "fails."

For example, should we assume that communism based economies don't fail, because North Korea, Cuba, and China still exist? Or should we take lessons from history that show every communist country has failed spectacularly, and those that still exist are completely broken, or, as China, have had to change themselves into more of a capitalist system? Also, we actually know the exact mechanisms that cause fiat to fail.

I don't believe Bitcoin will be what replaces paper money and electronic government debt. I'm not even convinced that Bitcoin will be the survivor in the crypto coin wars. Most initial iterations of software are not the final useful form that becomes popular.

Something will eventually replace fiat maybe even in our lifetimes. I always figured it would be some form of ID at birth that can follow you around all your life. Maybe DNA account assignment or fingerprint/retina scanning. People can be assigned government credits by employers and deduct against them for things they want to buy. This would have the side benefit of eliminating many types of crime that revolve around untraceable currency.

The Irony is strong when I compare the above with your username.

Interesting logic, but I'm going to have to disagree with it.

Do you also believe that some people may live forever because some people are still alive now?

I think it's safe to say that, like humans, all fiat currencies eventually die.

We are already paying digitally for 95%, well I am. The only thing is the banks that get paid for this 'service'.
Bitcoin makes this service absolete.

So when non-fiat currencies are replaced, you don't think it has to be because the original currency has failed...


...but you don't seem to apply this logic to fiat currencies. It seems that by definition, any time they are replaced, it is because they have failed.
If a country gains independence and changes its currency, that is counted as a failure of the previous currency. If it is conquered by another country and changes it currency, that is counted as a failure of the previous currency.
If currencies are subsumed into a single currency union, that seems to be counted as a failure of those currencies.
If the above isn't what you think, then you must agree that there are many fiat currencies which are no longer in use, but which didn't fail, by the definition you used for commodity based currencies.

But bitcoin isn't software, it's a protocol. Open and upgradeable at that.

This thread isn't labeled what does QA want to happen. Change will happen whether I want it too or not. I'm not sure most people would want what I want. If I were king all drugs would be legal, prostitution would be legal, cigarettes would be illegal, we wouldn't embargo countries just because we don't like them or their leaders, we would stop imprisoning people for being poor, the Dept of Homeland security would all be taken to the Whitehouse lawn and shot as traitors to a free nation, no more holding people in jail as terrorists without trial. No, a lot of people wouldn't like my country.

Call it whatever. If it's so upgradable then why aren't they doing it? There are a lot of flaws that are being ignored and you know it. (A dev, jgarzik, has to put out a torrent for the blockchain instead of pruning it. We haven't solved the 51% attack yet. And on and on) If I see more upgrading going on then maybe my view will change and I will be convinced.

That point was...... that the currency was DESTROYED .....because of war and /or independence. .  You are also correct that 100% of non fiat currencies also fail/get destroyed or are monetarily reformed ( and disappear) ..so that leaves us with ALL currencies Die..which they do!

re Deutschmark euro...all fiats DIE not fail......(although the act of dying could be considered a failure)  

failure was referring to Every 30-40 years the Reigning Monetary System Fails and has to be retooled

Ok, I was thinking your account was either sold or you were cynical to the future. I suppose your dystopian vision is one possibility.


Technology is being scaffolded all around the Bitcoin blockchain all the time. Some people criticize bitcoin for not solving all of the problems immediately or adding every new feature set within the core protocol but there are some great advantages of keeping bitcoin simple, reliable and modular and other features scaffolded upon bitcoin instead.

Sorry, I only use carrier pigeon.

If we want adoption ahead of any competitors then the changes need to be made quickly or someone else will make them and be rewarded for the effort. This Brock Pierce guy TBF member came up with Realcoin because he sees a problem with Bitcoin adoption and wants a solution. I don't know if that's the right way to go but it's one way. Big business solves problems quickly because they have the money and resources to throw at problems. Big business and big money are becoming interested in Bitcoin. Will they decide to fix the problems or scrap the old and develop a new one? That's anyone's guess at this point.

Some of those problems aren't that serious yet, some are being worked on but aren't ready yet... They just announced a request for beta testers for the next version just a week or so ago. There's progress, it's just that compared to bitcoin world's extremely fast pace, once or twice a year doesn't seem that often for updates.

When the original something is replaced, that doesn't make that original something go away. We still have horses and buggies, faxes, gold coins, etc. It's just that we took the success of the previous idea and built on top of it. Failed would have been if horse and buggy system failed, we we didn't have any more of them because they all broke, and to fix the situation we started making more of them with the exact same flaws that the first ones broke from.



That's not what I said.

The main point is that it's like arguing for making 3 legged rectangular tables, having a bunch of them tip over, and then say that three legged tables aren't a failure, because some of them are still standing, and others were replaced with nicer tables. The point is that a three legged table is a failure of an invention; prone to failure; has a failed design. Sure we can keep trying to balance it, but it will still fail as soon as that balance is disturbed.

It is pretty clear where businesses are primarily investing: Bitcoin. any businesses that decide to invest in Realcoin, stellar, or ripple will be investing in a protocol which lacks a critical feature which is driving adoption of Bitcoin: A steady store of value which cannot be manipulated directly by central planners or inflated. The flaw with Bitcoins volatility cited by Brock and Raison d'être of Realcoin is also Bitcoins strength. Initial volatility is necessary for the initial adoption and growth phase. If bitcoin was initially a stable unit of account during the formative years than their wouldn't be a massive investment to build and grow bitcoin as the early participants aren't incentivized as much.

I like this remark about the volatility. As someone has said few years ago: lots of wealth will be destroyed and lots of wealth will be created (thorough bitcoin).

I don't think it's initial instability and get rich mentality helped it as much as being associated with Silk Road and being this new edgy way to screw the government and do what you want right under their noses. That Gawker article did more for Bitcoin in a week then all the brainstorming at this forum could do in a year.

Even Bitcoins golden boy Patrick Byrne says that, "he favors competing currencies in theory and feels like they could truly compete with Bitcoin as long as they offer superior technical features. He then went on to acknowledge that the core Bitcoin code contains a lot of “slop,” which he speculated could cause potential logistical problems for Bitcoin in the future."

The future isn't set in stone. Hard work will be necessary for Bitcoin to maintain its lead position. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Well it is exactly what you said. You said that 100% of fiat currencies have failed:

Because they do. It is a fact of life. THe longest fiat in existense is American dollar as far as I know. And they all end up at 0 value in 20, 30, 40 or even 100, years. Technically of course because they leave the same name of the currency i.e. deutschemark, yen, drahma or whatever. With growing awareness of the population and adoption bitcoin is the winner.

Most code is riddled with slop, other alts are often worse than Bitcoin in this regard as well. Yes, more work needs to be done, but we don't need any mistakes to happen with a 7+ billion dollar market cap. We have enough problems as is with sociopaths like Mark K., regulators wanting to control Bitcoin,  and traditional banks with their negative PR campaign to start making mistakes in the protocol because users are anxious to see changes.

Let the alts test some of the new features and once vetted Bitcoin can roll that code into the core.

It is very unlikely that any alt will surpass Bitcoin at this stage in the game.

They will fill the gabs for sure, and maybe someday the will really replace fiat, as you can't print out as many bitcoins as you want and you can't make fake bitcoin bill.
It's all vertified by computers and the most important, it's open source (mostly) so nothing hidden at all.

I guess my succinct catch phrase stands corrected. So, instead "100% of fiat currencies fail or get destroyed." Hope that's better.

Bitcoin is both a protocol and a software program.  "Upgradeable" means breaking the consensus and a new consensus must be achieved.

Tell me if this is one of the fixes that's about to be released or if it one of the not so serious ones.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=758927.0

I happen to think this is a pretty serious drawback for adoption.

The bitcoin protocol has evolved somewhat since it was originally released in 2009.

You could compare Bitcoin to Microsoft windows (disregarding the bugs, security holes and other drawbacks of windows). When windows was first released it was very different then it is today, it had much fewer features, however it has been very successful for microsoft and has really been the most popular operating system since it was released. 

Its most likely that they believe bitcoin is more 'safer' so no one can rob you and such, although I don't think it will ever replace fiat, fiat has been with us for Years, Centuries, and will be for eternity.
So Bitcoin replacing fiat? not happening anytime soon.

People too entusiasmed with Bitcoin and think everyone are like him. Also wishfull thinking about they getting billionaire just by hodling few BTC.

Most people don't use internet banking, and there are billions or so people without a bank account. Even internet and smartphones aren't global, I doubt cryptos will ever be really global one day.

Easy to do, and was done at least once already. Just have the code be released as dormant in the new versions of bitcoin, have it track how many nodes have updraged, and  then switch on automatically once about 90% to 95% of the network has installed the version with the new code. Users won't even notice the switchover as it goes from an old style block to a new style block. P2Pool publishes upgrades to their systems this way all the time, and unless you know what is going on, you wouldn't even notice the hard forks, other than installing a new version once in a while.

That's just Hive. Bitcoin let's you chain transactions one after another. If they all have proper fees, they will all get accepted in the next block at the same time. Mycelium let's you do this without a problem. The only issues you might see is if you use LocalTrader's confidence graph it will not go past 50%, or if some wallet service tracks for unusual transactions (such as those with unconfirmed inputs) they may not accept your transaction until it is confirmed in a block (happened to me with BitPay, but my unconfirmed input was a single transaction sending 1mBTC to 30 wallets, with no fee, that took 30 hours to confirm).

This is exactly why many of us think bitcoin will grow so much. It doesn't need a bank account, and you can even use it with a dumbphone through SMS. So if most people don't have bank accounts or internet or smartphones, then bitcoin is the only option for most people.

You are missing the point.  When you tell new users that Bitcoin is easily upgraded the first thing say is that it must be easy to change the 21 million limit.  Then Bitcoiners often respond respond with explaining the consensus and how hard it would be to change.  This confuses people because if Bitcoin is so easy to change then many of the claimed benefits would be worthless.

You evidently either completely missed or don't care about the problem. That's like saying, oh, it's just BitPay, or just Blockchain, or just whoever. That's ridiculous. Hive wants to protect itself and you think it's their problem? You probably thought the transaction malleability issue was no big deal too, right? It shouldn't ever happen because you can't ask vendors to be responsible for correcting the faults with Bitcoin! You can't ask them to take the financial responsibility for flaws. Blocks are too god damn slow to confirm and waiting for 6 fucking confirmations is business suicide. Hell, waiting for one will put you out of business. Bitcoin is useless for everyday life until a multitude of problems are fixed. I see this as an issue and a big one. If some other coin fixes them first - they win. Good luck with replacing fiat or ATM cards or credit cards or checks or store cards or gas cards or prepaid cards or EBT cards or PayPal POS because they're all instant.

I just tell them that consensus to fix a bug, or to add a beneficial feature, is basically guaranteed. And if it's never reached (90% of nodes never add that code), consensus won't be reached and the new code will never be implemented. On the other hand, consensus to have everyone give away a part of their money, and at the same time consensus on whom to actually give it to (miners, charity, some "bank") is practically impossible.



No, I'm saying that's a bug in Hive's software, or them restricting what is actually perfectly fine in bitcoin.


Not allowing a transaction to have an unconfirmed input doesn't actually protect Hive from anything. They should just check to make sure that the unspent input has enough of a priority (fees, etc.), and if yes, let you spend again. Mycelium and Blockchain.info wallets do that and work fine.


I didn't know enough about the technical details of that, so couldn't have anything more than an opinion based on whatever I heard devs say about it. Not being an expert on that topic, what I thought was irrelevant.


Thanks to BIP70 (Merchant Payment Protocol), you don't have to. Since the signed transaction will be sent to them for review, instead of broadcasted outright, their software can automatically check for unconfirmed inputs, verify that they have enough fees, and if not, reject the transaction back to the customer. Soon they may even be able to add their own fees to customer's unconfirmed inputs, to make sure that they do confirm. And hopefully wallet developers will keep up, or their wallets will be abandoned for having too many problems. As I said, this issue is a non issue that already has a fix.


Are you comparing this to a 6 months chargeback waiting period? Or buying a beer at a bar? Cause it's true what they say, bars and restaurants (and BitPay) don't even wait for one confirmation. I buy stuff with bitcoin all the time, and I don't know any shop (except Piiko) that does. So I don't know why Hive enforces it on its users

I guess the entire Bitcoin economy will depend on BitPay, Coinbase and a short list of others that will take all the risk. I guess they are making a tidy little profit eating that risk so it's ok. What if smaller businesses want to accept Bitcoin without the centralized oversight of the Bitcoin Mafia? How can they ring up a sale and let the customer walk out the door without one confirm? Or perhaps the idea is that a couple of enormous companies will be necessary to make Bitcoin work forever?

Wow we've managed to make a currency that's even more centrally controlled than any government fiat except there's no elected oversight. Just a few big boys getting bigger every day. Power to the people. lol

Typically!my merchants hire other companies to do their payment system man agent already, since those companies can then handle tracking their balances, and maybe even doing accounting. So it's likely, yes. But even if merchants accept payments themselves, with a BIP70 style payment, they receive the payment, hold onto it for a few seconds while monitoring the blockchain for double spend attempts, and then publish it. If this becomes a problem, they could even set up a deal with mining pools where they register their key with them, sign the transaction with their own key, and upload it to the pools to let them know that this should be the only transaction from that output that they should mine. Sure some minor pool might ignore it and still get lucky, but if pools charge a fee for this service, they'll have incentives to cary it out, and fairly, so their miners get the most revenue. And this is just a solution I came up with just now off the top of my head. I'm sure others will come out with something even better.



The point, as with all things bitcoin, is not oversight, but incentives. Are incentives lined up properly, and if not, how do we fix them. Above is an example.

There will certainly be a period where they will coexist for a time. This transitionary period could possibly be quite lengthy. But in the end, there will simply be no competing against a deflationary currency. When you throw a deflationary currency among inflationary currencies, it starts acting as a black hole absorbing all the wealth in the world. This doesn't even take into account that bitcoin is more than a currency and cannot be seen in just this light.

This is exactly right. Not all can or have access on it especially at this moment.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that it is universal. So while we can compare it to USD for value, it can be converted to any countries dollar. This is what gives it such tremendous value.

I've never heard this or seen it written. If you're sure that's what the person said, ask them directly.

Yeap my thoughts exactly too

The solution is simple. I want everyone in the world to start using Bitcoin as quickly as possible so I can sell my 2k Bitcoins mined in 2011 and retire to a private island in the South Pacific. However, all I see when I open a new page on this forum is not, "good news Bitcoin will be worth $10k each soon". No, what I see is, "oops here is another issue we need to fix before everyone can take Bitcoin".

Don't get me wrong, BitPay and Coinbase are great and I trust them to handle a lot of business without a mistake. They have proven to be exemplary at convincing complete nutters running big businesses to take Bitcoin if they convert it to fiat quickly. I was very impressed with Coinbase for convincing super nutter Patrick Byrne to keep 10% of the coin he takes in. They are also obviously masters at managing exchange risk and are a part what's creating the relative exchange stability. None of the miners are going to let go of their coins to Overstock if the value is five bucks. So BitPay and Coinbase are juggling the order books with carefully placed orders. All of that is genius but it's not the recipe for a large thriving economy. Just the opposite, it's the recipe to ensure the power of fiat, the power of a few large companies and maintain a manageably small economy (only as large as merchant services companies can support).

You speak of incentives and that's exactly the issue. There are no incentives to change Bitcoin. The current powers refuse to risk improvements for fear of screwing up their little money maker. You talk about BIP70 with respect like it's the only option. But BIP 70 is a patch and not even a good one. I'm not really even sure why Mike Hearn defends it so staunchly when it uses a rich centralized corrupt corporate SSL PKI. He says no alternatives exist but refuses to consider CA Cert. That's incredibly peculiar behavior coming from a man that said, "We don’t want bitcoin to be controlled just by rich people. There has to be some reason to it". I would love to take the credit for discovering that Bitcoin isn't being fixed but this is not my idea alone. Mike Hearn believes that, "because developers are not incentivised they simply don’t tend to tackle the big problems and little progress is being made. The result is that development of the bitcoin protocol has ground to a complete halt. He describes the situation as a “crisis period for bitcoin, in this respect”.

If large companies are going to control Bitcoin then we're not fighting against "The Establishment" we're becoming "The Establishment".

Re retiring to Island...here's a new option coming ..with incentives :)  starting Oct 1st :) Intention to make Boracay a bitcoin Island..one small step for Man.....one giant leap for Bitcoin !


From Sept 15th... payment in bitcoin accepted with 10% discount for pre booked sulit amakan rooms. P1,100 will be P990.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005312025087&fref=ts

Your motivations are shortsighted, because bitcoin is more important than some get rich quick investment.  If you are that concerned about development progress the best thing to do is either help test the code or donate to developers. We are all in this struggle together and your involvement affects the outcome of the investment.

Mike Hearn's project won a 40k bounty to address your concerns:
http://www.coindesk.com/mike-hearn-wins-40000-bounty-bitcoin-core-crowdfunding/

http://www.coindesk.com/new-decentralized-crowdfunding-platform-reshape-bitcoin-landscape/

No, that was my joke about the people in this community and what they really want out of Bitcoin. I already have quite a bit of money because I ran my own business and sold it. There are a lot of old miners here waiting for Bitcoin to explode but that will never happen with the current system.

BTW: I do help and I did donate. That might do a some good, especially if Mike can truly live on donations alone. People will see that and might join in but currently a few businesses control development and are shaping Bitcoin. Fixes to problems that have been known from the beginning are not being addressed. That's the joke to me about this thread, "Why Do People Believe Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat?" Of course it couldn't possibly do that because it can't even replace ATM cards and that should be easy.

Because the way traditional fiat is handled by the banks (at least as far as I know, all fiats have interest from the people who print them) the inflation is not only inevitable, but infinite.  If you put a monies side by side that has no inflation, why would it not end up being the one and only currency?  The only other alternatives I see coexisting is other altcoins. It probably won't be in our lifetimes, but I believe a good 200 years from now would be no doubt. The only way this wouldn't happen is if the world goes dark (no electricity) or the internet ceases to exist.

I do not think so, but it will be a complementary currency.

Ok, sarcasm doesn't travel over the internet easily. I understand your frustration, I just haven't heard many who suggest BTC will replace Fiat. Lets continue to work on the development.

I would have to disagree that replacing "ATM cards" should be easy. The debit card network is an infrastructure with billions of dollars of investment and many years in development. BTC atm's are just starting to be sent out.

Don't forget Aamir Taki's libbit coin, BitPay creating their own versions of addons, and that Bitcoin Core devs are mainly working on splitting it into separate components, so that different coders can make their own versions of components, instead of having to code the entire core (like Aamir had to). Yes, progress is slow, but thankfully so is adoption for now, and I'm optimistic that it will pick up when there is demand for it and its easier to implement.


That has almost entirely to do with regulations, not technology. There are a bunch of people in US who have ATMs already, with locations where they want to set them up, but the only thing that has been keeping them from turning those machines on in the last year is lack of regulatory approval and licenses.

I suppose I should have said debit cards. I'm not talking about using it to withdraw fiat from a bank account. Let's hope everyone else's development of new financial products are as slow as Bitcoin.

Majority of the users here just want to get rich as soon as they can trying to talk the price up.

The irony is they will sell whatever they can for "FIAT" if the price is high enough.

I am sorry to say but I dont think bitcoin will ever replace fiat, is like saying debit cards can replace fiat or any other idea that was out, it will be just another currency to exchange fiat into, just like when you exchange USD into Euro.  Maybe in 140 years from now it can happen, but not anytime soon.

Don't forget, but bitcoin is also inherently better. Security (network, system), speed, friction, etc.

Exactly, just like how fiat lost out to the gold standard and we're all on the gold standard now.

This very well-researched article at the Nakamoto institute clearly spells out exactly why and how bitcoin cannot fail to replace fiat: (It's an austrian economics thing)

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/hyperbitcoinization (http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/hyperbitcoinization)

Transacting in bitcoin is magnitudes easier than transacting in gold, and even USD.

Nicely put. Bitcoin is already a black hole taking most of my money... Ha for better or worse.

Bitpay and coinbase do have other competitors but they are much smaller.

The reason why companies want to use these kinds of services is because their expenses are priced in fiat and need to be paid in fiat. They accept bitcoin for the convenience of the customer and for the costs involved in accepting it.

A 0/unconfirmed TX is unlikely to be double spent as long as it has a proper fee attached and is sufficiently propagated throughout the network. 

It will be a hard time for BTC to be able to replace Fiat..because most people will deny using BTC as replacement..

More decades to go for BTC to be used in place of fiat.

There is a big difference between a radical political stance and going around acting like a screwball.  If the goal is to increase the usage and importance of Bitcoin then you are not going to achieve that goal with a bunch of hyperbole and nonsense.  That drives people away and makes it difficult for people trying to increase adoption.  Using Bitcoin in itself is not a political stance of any kind.  Now you may want to use Bitcoin as a tool to achieve some goal because it has more options than other payment instruments but it does automatically meant you agree with anything.  That is like saying that everyone who uses the USD agrees with the policies and politics of the USA.
[/quote]

I agreed with that people use currencies doesn't mean they stand with any political side. I think everyone has the right to fight for their interests. If use coins could make my property safer, I would like to use them.

Not only the security of bitcoin exchange is a concern.  Similarly, the security of any financial institution is a concern too.  Just read this article and would like to share.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jpmorgan-hack-spanned-months-via-090000032.html

It can never happen, as long as goverment exist.

It will never replace fiats but it will get more engaged into the real life and will be more widely accepted in near future

Bitcoin might possibly never be able to replace fiat, since people are more comfortable with fiat specially the middle class.

Rich people might switch over to BTC earlier.

Bitcoin might not be able to replace fiat since people trust physical things more than digital!!

Resource wise, it isn't. Those old batch systems are orders of magnitudes more efficient on a per transaction basis than bitcoin is. A lot of this has to do with the rewards system of bitcoin, which encourages miners to keep adding on more hashing power even when there is already astronomically more than is needed to run the network.

When VISA for example gets enough processors to run its network it stops adding them because there is no reason to keep piling them on, bitcoin miners on the other hand keep right on adding because they want higher returns. Bitcoin's reward system incentivises mining inefficiency. The network could be run on a few old desktops at its current transaction volume, but instead it's being run on untold amounts of ASICS with huge processor farms chewing up money and energy to keep going.

Big fail thinking. You can doublespend some altcoins very easily. Now try this with Bitcoin... The more hashpower, the more secure your just confired transaction is.

Are you paying those costs, or are they?
Mining isnt about processing transactions, it is about fairly distributing coins and preventing anyone from cornering the market.

Except for small amount of cash (paper  :)) in circulation, almost all fiat is in digital form only. The fail of fiat is you have no idea how many USD are in circulation (cash+digital), what is going on, all is shaddy (centralized and out of sight for public real-time review).

Not true:

https://i.imgur.com/gE8hDnY.jpg

Fiat didn't "win" over the gold standard. We were all using the gold standard, and then whoever was issuing those gold backed notes for us just decided to break his promise. The "win" was based entirely on fraud.

Very simple - the government can STEAL your fiat money simply by printing more of it.

They cannot steal your Bitcoin .. unless they send goons to your house with guns (as they have been known to do ..)

Bitcoin should be viewed as an enhancement to fiat than replacement.

The same way fiat function as an enhancement to gold than replacement.

We are entering a new era of liberal beliefs. The wave of neo-feminism, drug legalization etc. has had the natural consequence that is bitcoin, a libertarian currency!

Credit card companies like Visa will need to have excess "hashpower" (aka processing power) in the event of spikes in the number of transactions that are processed on their network. This would result in customer essentially paying excess fees for using the network (in the form of higher prices from merchants) to pay for this idol processing power. 

Bitcoin won't replace fiat but will coexist with it, btw it will take several years before it will happen.

I think your world view doesn't extend very far into the future :P

I imagine an Amish town that doesn't embrace digital currencies using paper money and coinage to make transactions
Well I'll give him one although I think the Amish still bank so maybe they would vote to use it lol.

Businesses pass their costs off to consumers, that's kind of how they fundamentally operate.

How does mining accomplish this? Last I checked most coins are falling into the hands of financially well off miners with huge mining farms. Massive capital investments are now needed to run a profit mining, it's a system that only allows the rich to become richer.

What is your alternative? Let a single institution print them at whim?
Also, the electricity costs are not paid by anyone but the miners. They are also forced to sell coins to pay bills, thus making coins more affordable to us proles.

The entire purpose of fiat was to be more portable and divisible than gold. Bitcoin is divisible enough and infinitely more portable than fiat. Natural selection will eventually make fiat a thing of the past but it may take decades. Government corruption/violence, and public education/awareness are the only factors that can delay its progress.

It is totally obvious to me that automated systems, like Bitcoin, with virtually no overhead in comparison, and infinitely better accountability, will replace outdated systems almost entirely. I think the "horse and buggy" is a great example. We are still not in a "paperless society" yet either, so it will take decades, but everything that can be automated will be eventually. It is more cost effective, more profitable, so those that do it last will simply lose. No question. 

If you don't think mass adoption of Bitcoin could stop most major war, how much BTC will you send to support the next invasion? Decentralization is revolutionary regardless of what people think about it, and revolutionary in a very good way. They will try and stop it no matter how it is packaged, so don't worry about us silly revolutionaries. It will be just like the wagon wheel repair people trying to stop the automobile, absurd. They will have to adjust to the times, and adapt to Bitcoin.

Try driving a Fiat from Europe to America in 10 minutes, with just a drop of fuel.

So they can or they can't steal it? Maybe they wont need to use guns in the future and will just have advanced spyware or super computers that can crack encryptions etc.

Every people have different opinion
But, i think this will happen because if we promote every plus point bitcoin & fix critical function.
I think bicoin & other crypto can replace fiat  ;D

And if you search reason why bitcoin can replace fiat.
Please search on google.com  :)

Zero BTC, and I thank you for asking, instead of simply eroding the value of my Bitcoin by printing mass quantities of it to give to your war profiteering corporate pals. OH WAIT, you can't do that with crypto! I almost forgot!

I think they are already doing that now.

Not even at the beginning. Gavin's presentation at the CIA was probably more about teaching the government how to follow transactions than it was about a general technology presentation.

When people get to know Bitcoin and learn about the advantages, they start to believe they know more than the average person out there. They also think that since Bitcoin is newer and offers so many useful features, it is effectively bound to succeed. What they don't see is that Bitcoin still has to overcome rather big hurdles still.

Common people doesn't know anything about bitcoin and how it works, but when the word will spread I'm sure that the virtual currencies (not only btc) will replace FIAT in all the countries.

Fiat replacement will be the idea of the future and it will not be implemented in next 50 years.

As a financial tool it's been implemented already regardless of whether or not it's ready for prime time. People like to call Bitcoin an experiment but if that were true it should have been left in the lab instead of risking the money of the world on it and letting the market cap get this big. Bitcoin will never have the ability to replace fiat because government controlled money (paper, gold, sliver or donkeys) is about power not exchange. They might create a copycat that they can fake out the great beast into believing is the same thing but they will never adopt a truly free and open system that they can't control. I think it would almost take WWIII and the overthrow of the USA for Bitcoin to ever replace fiat.

Hah. Not likely.

https://i.imgur.com/fYFBsqp.jpg

Bitcoin will not be replacing Fiat for another few years. Because bitcoin is not so popular buddy :)

It probably won't ever be possible. At least not in our/your lifespan, so why should one care?
Let the people of the future decide how to proceed if it ever happens.
What's the point of encryption if it's going to be cracked in the next 5-10 years?

FTFY.

This is true only in so much as we've been conditioned in an environment where our pre-existing currency systems are ideally suited for the propagation and maintenance of violent authoritarianism. Bitcoin appears anarchistic by comparing and contrasting it against fiat.

Has he? I've seen an announcement about Realcoin. It is purported to to be a cryptocurrency that is controlled in lockstep with the US Dollar. Tell me - exactly how is this to be accomplished? I may be dumb, but I don't see any way that anything that we think of as a cryptocurrency can be pegged to something under control of a central bank. Can't be done.

Maybe Pierce has a viable scheme. I don't think he does. I think he's lying. I think he is just trying to attract fantastic sums of VC money with which he can live large -- just like every other failed business in which he has been involved so far.

One of the not so serious ones.

Most people understand that attempting to buy a single stick of gum at 7-11 with a $100.00 bill will incur some delay while the metered change machine disgorges ten and twenty spots at a slow rate. Accordingly, most people desiring a speedy transaction will ensure they make change before making the tiny purchase at 7-11.

Personally, having a wallet that contains only a single address (actually unspent output) seems rather astonishing to me. Accordingly, I never really thought about this problem before. Yes, it is a problem. But I don't see it as a problem with the protocol. I see it as a user problem. The user could have made change before going to the bar. Further, if this becomes a recurring problem, I imagine the wallets that reach success in the marketplace will ensure that the funds therein are always balanced across multiple unspent outputs.

So, no. I don't agree with you that this is a serious problem that dooms bitcoin to obscurity for all time.

I don't know whether he has. That what he says he's doing. I think he was planning on using MasterCoin as the protocol layer on top of Bitcoin allowing it to happen. You cut the quote off a little too soon.

I don't think I said it dooms Bitcoin to obscurity. I think it will give other coin devs a fighting chance to beat Bitcoin at it own game.

Disagree. The entire purpose of fiat was to have a mechanism by which the banking class could incrementally siphon off the wealth from the entire populace.

I don't think he so much sees a problem with bitcoin but rather saw an opportunity to exploit greed from people wanting to get rich investing in altcoins that are worthless.

Hmm. Maybe. Some other innovation may out-compete Bitcoin. In the same way that other networking protocols preceded TCP/IP.

However, with the VC forces massed behind Bitcoin, rather than other alternatives (none of which -- as yet -- seem to offer anything of value over Bitcoin), it would seem a rather unlikely outcome.

Regardless, this particular 'problem' won't be the fulcrum upon which this universe is toppled.

I don't think this will ever happen because there are too many people in the world that do not have internet access.   Perhaps at some point there will be bitcoin cash created that are basically paper wallet notes or whatever, and those could be used to replace fiat, but then it would just be digital fiat replacing old school fiat...

I think the fact that internet penetration is somewhat less than universal, is largely irrelevant.

We can argue about whether or not bitcoin is a currency or a commodity. Regardless, it shares with fiat the uses of being a store of wealth, and a means of exchanging forms of wealth.

While harsh, it is the reality that by and large, all the world's people that have significant wealth have internet access.

I don't mean to be cold, but those without internet access will have no effect whatsoever -- positive or negative -- in the cutover from fiat to bitcoin. Lacking wealth, they are irrelevant to this process.

I agree, it would take many decades to completely replace fiat with crypto currencies. A lot of work has to be done, people won't generally use it until they find it easy and superior to fiat.

Well, they will co exist. Maybe bitcoin fills in the position of the 1 and only international currency, travel abroad without exchanging currency

That's one of the many advantages over fiat. And also consider that you can easily hide the money, so you don't have any problem with customs.

Only stupid believe bitcoin will replace Fiat  :D

not all of them, but many people believe it.  :D
but i'ts not imposible for future   ;D

I don't think BTC is going to replace FIAT, they are only going crazy.

Acc to some people BTC is still fragile.

And according to logic, fiat is fragile.

This make sense. I think it's going to take time and probably a crypto with a more relatable name for consumers.  :D

A point that seems to be missed is that Bitcoin is already replacing fiat to the extent of approx $30 million per day. If bitcoin/crypto did not exist fiat would have to be used for most of that volume of transaction. It is a small beginning and currently the $ value and transaction volume is increasing incrementally at approx 3% per month average.

I expect that this increment in usage will soon increase to 10% + per month but Fiat is also increasing and for bitcoin even at that higher rate, should it remain constant, it would take decades to completely replace fiat.

increase in Bitcoin supply currently is 108k coins or approx 0.8% per month

increase in US$ supply is approx 6.5% per yr

https://ycharts.com/indicators/m2_money_supply_growth

Other countries have widely differing supply figures

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FM.LBL.MQMY.ZG

The maths suggest that Bitcoin has a tiny percentage of use compared to Fiat and this will continue for the foreseeable future unless some dramatic event/events spur its usage but nevertheless it is already replacing Fiat and is increasingly doing so at a very slow pace and from a very low base when looking at it from total fiat usage. Although arguably it is very fast when looking at it purely from bitcoin usage in $ terms yr on yr since 2011



 

Not really, a large proportion of bitcoin transaction volume is purely self-referential, and doesn't touch the 'real' economy.
Coin generation, fees, payouts from mining pools to users, transfers between wallets, payment for cloud hashing, and so on.
Add in transfers to and from alt-coin exchanges, dice and other gambling sites.
How much is left which represents real payments which would still have taken place without Bitcoin?

I believe bitcoin will replace fiat, and statistically speaking there's an approximately 93% chance I'm more intelligent than you.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s311/msphrogge/iq-bell-curve.gif

Take from that what you will.

I corrected your post for you.
The only thing an IQ test measures is IQ, not intelligence.

I would suggest that mining and its payouts, gambling and trading other coins are part of the real economy  but agree transfer between wallets of the same owner diminish the total $ volume used in trade/commerce to some extent. The same would apply to fiat transfers between owners accounts, so apples and apples comparison arguably holds.  Provided that it continues to increase in volume the growth curve will show at what pace/time frame it will reach 1% of total fiat transactions.

Using very rough figures

GDP of USA alone in 2013 was $16.8 trillion in order to reach that figure ( and assuming GDP growth is zero and bitcoin has a 100% per annum growth rate in $ volume) from $30 million/ day or $10.9 Billion a year with a 100% /annum increase in $ volume it would take 14 yrs for bitcoin to reach 16 trillion. :)  so even if the true trading volume is only 10% of $30 M or $3 million a day it would still only take an extra year or 2 . The point being it could be done in under 20 years if growth continues at past rates..this is not to say it will as many other factors will influence that rate in the future.

As I posted earlier in this thread my personal opinion is that Governments will introduce a crypto currency which they control and engage in monetary reform of their existing Fiats sooner rather than later and long before bitcoin gets to even 1% of GDP.

Crypto may come to serve a very powerful role, but tech itself does not guarantee absolute or near absolute viability in terms of replacing fiat.

Those who cannot understand this concept or the very real and simple reasons behind it are the same ones who have trouble understanding why the world doesn't turn around them.

Crypto may play an important partial role in finances in the future. It won't be bitcoin at the helm however.

Verdict? OP's question is right on the mark and is valid.

I had this thought that fiat could be backed by bitcoin much like the gold standard era. I don't see the Fed backing out without a fight.

That's actually not remotely true at all. Notes/coins that stood in place for gold were used just fine under the gold standard and they made the trading the ownership of gold easy. The actual reason the world collectively left the gold standard was its deflationary nature. The world's economists felt after studying thousands of years of human economies that human economies did best with a steady, low, annual monetary inflation of 1-2%, this was impossible to achieve with the gold standard where gold production could not keep pace with the growing world economy so countries left it behind.

Fiat was created BEFORE any economists started thinking kenesian theory. Fiat was indeed created and initially used because it was easier to transact in than gold. So yea, it is very true.

Not true. Its creation and the arguments for it are well documented, go open up some fucking history books pal. It had literally nothing to do with transaction ease. People had no more problem transacting on the gold standard than they did fiat. Both systems used notes and coins.

There is no possibility of bitcoin totally replacing all fiat currency. We must keep in mind that there is limit on maximum number of bitcoin that can exist. Most part of product vendors and services providers may shift to bitcoin as it will save them lot of transaction fee.

Limited supply is not a problem when you have near unlimited divisibility.

21 million doesn't sound like much, until you realize that the deflationary aspect of it will practically assure that it can fulfill the needs of the populace. If bitcoin theoretically continues to deflate, it will one day reach parity with the entire market cap of the dollar supply. That will be more than enough money for the planet. The divisibilty aspect further assures that usage of bitcoins (as well as its deflationary aspect) will not become cumbersome.

Fiat currencies continued existence relies on it being a suitable usecase to hold your assets in. Right now, faith in bitcoin is not yet strong enough to warrant this kind of reliance. But if it continues to survive, soon people will start paying more attention to the deflationary aspect than to the inherent risk of the system collapsing. Once people believe that the risk of bitcoin collapsing has the same risks as the internet collapsing, the usecase for fiat currencies to hold your assets in ceases to exist entirely.

The reason people cannot see fiat currency dissappearing, is because they see it in terms of how the general populace sees it. This is the wrong way to reason. The general populace is the last to see change coming and they will be the last to make the switch. You must look at it from the perspective of a whale and how whales affect change and markets.

I am pretty sure that kenesians had their crazy ideas well before the US left the gold standard.

Wow poor logical thinking.  Its not zero sum.  Those bit coins came into existence through mining.  They didn't replace any fiat because no fiat got taken out of circulation

Speak for yourself. My bitcoins replaced my fiat.

Your fiat still exists its just in someone else's possession  ::)

Wrong. That fiat is their's, not mine.

I don't think bitcoin may replace fiat
it must live with it and i don't think it can live without it

So if you can't see it, then it cease to exist?  Mmmmkay.  Gotcha.   ::)

When everyone exchanges their fiat for bitcoins, only you will still have any fiat. Good luck spending your fiat then.

USD backed tokens, issued and backed by a bank, running on Mastercoin on to of bitcoin. Bank can always issue or take in tokens to control supply, and promises to back 1:1 with full reserves.


Brock IS the VC, and has been the funder in all those business, including failed one. He has more money than he knows what to do with, so doesn't need anyone else's help to live large.

And when is this supposed to happen?  100 years later after I'm dead?  LOL  ::)

Start with 100 fiats. You own 100 fiats, and fiats are 100% of the world's economy

Mine 10 fiats worth of bitcoins. Trade your 10 fiats worth of bitcoins to someone else. Now there is 110 fiats worth of wealth in the world. Actual fiats take up only 90.9% of the world's economy. Bitcoins took over 9.1% of fiats in the world's economy.


I don't think fiats will exist for 100 more years. It will only take dollars and/or euros to collapse for fiats to end and the world to switch to bitcoin. Euro fiat is only about 25 years old, and dollar fiat is only about 45 years old. They are both very new, and historically fiats have an average lifespan of about 27 years.

Your math is wrong because you are only calculation M0.  Also you assume fiat supply is fixed while BTC supply is inflating

The USD "fiat" started from "greenbacks" in Civil War time.  The EUR has been only around since 2002. 

Anyways, none of that is important.  The only important thing is that money is a creature of the state not a creature of the market.  In other words, if USD collapse the US govt will just replace it w another currency.  Bitcoin will never replace USD unless the govt allows it to. 

Governments are creatures of the market as well.

Stability of the dollar?  Whose dollar exactly?  Certainly not the United States? :p

Only a small thing, but the Euro's being around since 1 Jan 1999. Physical came in 2002.

I think fiat and bitcoin will always both exist, simply because fiat for some things is easier. However what could happen a long time down the road and probably gradually, is that bticoin could become the reference currency of value.

What could also happen is bitcoin could suffer attack, fail and be replaced by another crypto currency which perhaps will have some of the design flaws of bitcoin remedied. In short, I think Fiat as a reference currency will in the long term be replaced by a crypto currency, perhaps bitcoin, perhaps another.

Actually, money was hijacked by the state.  Bankers and politicians have been colluding with each other to maintain their control over money by giving themselves the ability to both create it and confiscate it.  Government as we know it today rests upon those two abilities and Bitcoin kills both of those birds with one stone.

Fiat monetary systems will come to an end because all scams eventually come to an end.

He is referring to the commerce that bitcoin is used in, not the new bitcoin being mined. Every $100 that is used in bitcoin related commerce will result in roughly $3 in savings from credit card processing fees, and more in chargeback costs.

As more people use bitcoin for commerce, the amount of commerce that fiat is used for will decrease.

Replacing Fiat is not a peace of cake. Bitcoin may become more preferred currency over fiat after few years but reaplacing fiat is not possible in even 100 years.

Bitcoin is awesome,I would love to see it replace fiat,Because the fees are low and Fiat fees can be ridiculous. + Bonus bitcoin is fun to use :)

Whether the supply is fixed or inflating is irrelevant. It could be 15 trillion fiats taking up 90% of economy, or 100 trillion, but they still take up 90% of the new economy. New currencies and forms of wealth displace the old.


That has almost never been the case with collapsed fiat. Typically countries with collapsed fiat have no choice but to adopt another fiat, such as USD, or if their country forces a new fiat on them, treat it like risky garbage. If Peso collapses, government has USD wealth that they can use to hold power and force others to accept a new fiat. If USD collapses, what will US government use to maintain power, and what will they pay their troops with?

I think an adaption can happen in 15 years.

I think that if enough momentum builds there will be a bitcoin rush, not to different than the gold rushes long ago. At a certain point when bitcoin is very easy, safe, and fast, it could become a serious contender.

Once the rush happens, everyone and I mean EVERYONE will want in for fear of being left behind. The fear of waking up one day and realizing all your money is worthless will take hold and fuel the rush.

Then governments will learn how to make fiat and bitcoin coexist. Maybe even the fed locking in bitcoin rates to USD instead of interest rates like they do now.

I really think bitcoin is going to make a big mess of things. And most of the people on this forum will see huge returns.

I agree.   Also, the US is one of the largest holders of Bitcoin.  A couple more seizures and they could really wield some power and set exchange rates for quite a while. 

I am holding a few coins of BTC because IMO btc is rebuilding/destroying the USD system as use expands, bitcoin space is replacing fiat with every new coin mined.

Why Do People Believe Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat?
Because fiat is corrupted and government can print money whenever they want. I believe crypto currency will one day replace fiat but definitely not Bitcoin. Unless Bitcoin can be 99% secure and not get hacked or stolen so easily.

Crypto geeks live in their own tech-believer world, that's why they believe bitcoin replacing fiat.  :) like flying car is going to replace cars or millions of humans living in space by the year 2000...
There's Paypal, easier to use than bitcoin  :) Btc is overpriced even when 50$

Cause it's better, simpler and you control your funds! No one can touch your money!

Everyone have the right to give his opinion.
Well mine is that Bitcoin will never ever replace the real FIAT . Fiat exists from thousands and it won't just simply get abandonned . not that easy at least

Gold won't replace fiat, not sure if Bitcoin will either. Bitcoin will increase its popularity over time but too many people are buying bitcoin because they believe it'll make them rich someday and that's the difference between fiat and Bitcoin. Fiat is meant to spend it and only a small percentage of bitcoin users will spend their bitcoin (now and in future).

Not any more. BOTH of the seizures have been auctioned off now.

With regards to bitcoin replacing fiat, you all should read this http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/speculative-attack/

The government has been somewhat aggressive in selling the bitcoin they have in it's possession (by selling in large blocks via auction). As a result of them selling ~2/3's of what it seized from silk road (and ross) it is no longer the largest holder

This is pretty much in a nutshell one of the primary reasons governments won't allow Bitcoin to replace fiat...even if adoption reaches a grand scale.

Yes, it is somewhat surprising... But I think it really speaks to the compartmentalization of
government... Every agency is out for themselves.   If it is really true that "the banksters
control the government", clearly they don't have iron grip control over everything that moves,
and since very few really get to enjoy elite levels of money, status, and power, most cogs
in the machine who do recognize the power of cryptocurrency are probably investors and
proponents themselves.

That's because it showed so much promise in the earlier part.

Because people are romantic notion dreamers. Why do people think that they will become millionaires if they gamble or play the lottery?

I don't think it will happen and I think they are different in many ways.

Because BtiCoin does not sponsor wars.
Bitcoin is frictionless, instant and global.
You dont get fucked in the ass by the government over and over with no hope of recovery.

Main reasons for me

Very good reasons, exactly my feelings about BTC.
Also, BTC gives you the possibility of financial freedom (specially if you are early adopter) what is really important for me.
I hope to get rid of my bank soon :)

Agreed, bitcoin is not a fiat currency issued and controlled by states. It is a medium of exchange based on its value as a commodity. This is the wonder of crypto-currencies, any government can get out printing money to finance its populist and totalitarian madness.

Bitcoin will most probably coexist with fiat, even if it is widely successful.
As long as taxes are supposed to be paid in fiat, there will be demand for fiat.  ;D

People still use land lines. Mobile phones did not completely replace them. There will still be the holdouts and the niches that still use fiat.

Bitcoin replacing fiat? Not in my life time. I instead wonder what relationship—even if it's an indirect relationship—Bitcoin will have with the various mechanisms by which governments borrow new currencies into existence by way of bond issuance and bank-lending protocols. The global bond market is enormous and is intimately linked to the forex market, which is intimately linked to the cryptocurrency market.

I don't think that this will happen in the next year, bitcoin actually can only process around 600.000 transaction in one day, and world transaction is more high than 600.000. There are too much things that doesn't allow bitcoin to become the world currency.

Next year? Nobody is thinking so short term?
The question is will Bitcoin ever replace Fiat.

Fiat money is one of the worst inventions ever, next to the laugh track. They create mindless followers needing someone to cue their herd behavior.

Isn't governments us?


Regarding bitcoin replacing fiat, this should be required reading for new bitcoiners http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/speculative-attack/

I don't think Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat, bitcoin will be the complete the fiat.

nobody ever said bitcoin will replace fiat, what are you smoking

as mentioned above, in a democracy, the people are the government.

also the issue or question of bitcoin replacing traditional government fiat is not up to any central authority, it is up to the market if the market does not accept fiat at a large enough pace and does accept bitcoin at a large enough pace then bitcoin has replaced fiat

The Government has enough tools at hand (taxation, regulation) to ensure that this does not happen.

"Bitcoin will be adopted as the global currency."

The Bitcoin Central Bank’s Perfect Monetary Policy  (http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-bitcoin-central-banks-perfect-monetary-policy/)

This pretty much explains it:

http://prntscr.com/5mjzb9

A lot of very powerful people won't be too happy if that happens.
They will do everything in their power to stop it.

Or they will move their assets into bitcoin, and be powerful bitcoiners.

People who get their power from setting monetary policy, running large fiscal deficits which are tackled by depreciating the currency, etc wont benefit even if they move their assets into bitcoin. Bitcoin will remove their power and we will have a true, free market economy.

Fiat will remain as long as we have sovereignties. The closest could be when a certain nation decides to issue their own alt coin.

How many folks are settling all their monthly/daily bills today in BTC ? The answer is probably zero. And its been six years already. Sixty years later there is only one way a human can settle all their daily/monthly bills in BTC >> the country they live in has issued their own alt coin which can't be BTC...unless they gained complete control of BTC.

As to what people believe what will replace fiat is well, another belief.

People believe because they think rest of us will wake up soon and stand against the corrupt system. Education is the main part many people still believe that dollar is backed by gold which isn't true. Let the people get educated and once they realize the potential great things can be accomplished.

Bitcoin won't replace fiat as it's volatility makes it unsuitable for businesses as they work on tight margins.

However dollar stable decentralized assets solve this problem.

They allow a volatile crypto-currency to back stable options as demand for the stable option grows the backing crypto-currency will grow in value too.

This option allows a functioning decentralized economy to grow around whatever option is most suitable to business instead of businesses immediately selling for fiat which is what I think is responsible for this pro-longed downtrend, the more utility BTC gains the worse it does imo.

Bitcoin will always be a part of the world financial system. The question of course is what % of it will they occupy?
Unfortunately, our world government (USA) will be the one who allows Bitcoin to grow or not.
Just like the US does for countries, controlling their markets or imposing sanctions for political reasons.

Is this fair? Of course not, but are you going to do about it?

Oh, that's silly. Just because you overthrow a few foreign governments and put your own puppet in power you get a bad reputation. It's not that bad. The USA only wants everyone in the world to do what they say as if it were the word of God. No big deal.

People may be more inclined to believe in Bitcoin if there were ATMS with Bitcoins.
I mean not just a few but as common as regular ATMs. Maybe they could integrate them into
regular ATM machines? This would certainly change the thinking of people.

I believe crypto and digital currency will replace fiat, should imagine it is wiped out in our lives.

Why have ATMs if we want people to think of Bitcoin as a currency?

i was under the impression when i first started using BTC that it was going to take over the fiat currency myself but now I donjt think it will , its too unpredictable in the way it fluctuates up and down. Its definitely a good novelty source of payment and a way to not pay taxes lol but i think it isnt gonna take over for regular moneys

Because one doesn't need expensive armored vehicles to move it around or huge bank vaults to store it... that's provided free of charge by the blockchain... pretty neat eh?

Sovereignties don't control their currencies in the way you think. People only use their currencies as long as they don't break, or something better doesn't come along.

This should be required reading for this thread http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/speculative-attack/

Dollar backed currencies will be stable only as long as dollars stay stable, which isn't a guarantee. Things become more stable as they grow in total volume, and bitcoin is no exception. As for businesses working on  tight margins, that  won't matter if they do all their business in bitcoin and use bitcoin as their base unit of account. Who cares if bitcoin went down in value, if their cost is 10BTC and their revenue is 11BTC, they still made a 1BTC profit. The  dollar isn't stable either, having a volatility of up to 5% a week at times, but companies don't care either as long as the amount of dollars they bring in exceeds the amount they spend.

my veeeery favorite of all the BS i *constantly* hear spouted is wait till a satoshi = $1 ... lets do a little math here for the slow folks ... 21 million supply x 0.00000001 for a dollar creates a "real" money supply of ... yes 2.1 QUADRILLION dollars ... as in a trillion dollars X 1000 and then more than double it ... gdp of all of the developed countries of earth combined since the industrial revolution began doesn't come close (yes as far back as horses and buggies and accounting for inflation spending power) + all of the current value of all real estate on earth combined and the oil rights and the mineral rights ... if anyone ever tells you a satoshi will equal a dollar they are stupid and/or lying ...

I personally never feel that fiat will be replaced by bitcoin at all levels, but will certainly be preferred for online usage and sending bitcoin to friends.

OP has not responded since his initial question. Something tells me the first 2 or 3 pages may have contained the answer to his question.

Bitcoin is not a political tool agreed. However, some governments can turn my grandmother into a political tool!

Heh true, but it shows you, what can be done with the currency, if the need for that occur.  ;)

The value for me, in using Bitcoin is the ability to change and adapt the currency to do more things than simply being a currency.

We live in a world, where we want things to change with the times and the technology surrounding it. We use to write letters, then we used email, and now we moved onto social media, where you get instant response.... We are getting used to improving the technology we use, and fiat are not a media with those features.   

I don't think we have to philosophize using Bitcoin. Its not a way of thinking or an ideology. Its just a alternative currency, nothing more!

Bitcoin will not be allowed to replace fiat. Governments need to control their tax revenue.
It is for this reason that I think Bitcoin contributes to the avoidance of a cashless society.

Yeah, Uranium is just dirt from the ground. No reason you can't let your kids play with it.

Bitcoin doesn't have to replace anything. If it's better, then people should be able to choose.

They forked that when they gave the power  to create money to the central banks.

Or maybe he's more of a listener than a talker. lol

BTC/ cryptos are nothing more than a false flag/hope with the end goal of ushering in the new world cashless order.

If they succeed, your only choice will be to OBEY lest they void your stash of crypto-fiat, and/or cut your power and /or internet connection.

Et tu Brute? Viva la Revolucion. Jimmy crack corn. Alahu Akbar.

It is possible that it replaces most fiat currencies but even if it doesn't the potential is in trillions of Dollars.

1 Satoshi will equal 1 Zimbabwe dollar.

Bitcoin will never replace fiat, at least not in its current form and if it ever did, it would most certainly be a shift initiated by the government. I guess people just find comfort in their belief that Bitcoin will eventually triumph. Other than gambling, cryptocurrency is the only thing that can offer regular folk who dream of untold riches a glimmer of hope.

Central banks are "supposedly" independent, but they do lend the government a helping hand now and then.

http://youtu.be/wGpJbD9h-J0

http://vimeo.com/112641992

Song about fiat currencies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPPSaW30an0

Do the aliens have fiat money as well? Someone should launch a QR code beacon in space for bitcoin donations 8)

Yes! Let's send a private key with laser to the nearest solar system an see if it is claimed. Must be the best way to prove intelligent life in universe. ;)

.. fixed ! ::)

I tend to think they are delusional, but then I look at this:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

and think those that are delusional and mentally insane are those that aren't investing their life savings on Bitcoin.

It's possible at some extent like for people who think they can live on Bitcoins by either getting their Salary in BTC or by selling things like tangible goods or some eatables and drinkable things for BTC, but all we need for the replacement of Fiat, is wide acceptance of BTC in order for that thing to take place, so I think that at least we should not think about it for at least 20-40 years ahead, as the development itself ain't complete yet since its been 6 years, and its a good thing though, but I think that now we should also concentrate on advertising and educating people about BTC for it to be accepted by everyone...

There's a difference between thinking it will replace fiat and really wanting it to because it's obviously the better and fairer option. Most intelligent people can see the evils in the current banking and monetary system and bitcoin is a solution to that. Will it ever happen? Sadly probably not but we can hope.

Bitcoin won't replace fiat, it does have a potential,but it will never replace fiat, it's too limited/restricted for a country to use (besides laws etc.)

It very well may be a contender in future years if it develops and our world becomes focused on technology instead of paperwork.

Poverty will always exist, this may work for 1st world countries with people that have access to electronic devices. In some 3rd world countries, some people can't even afford water. This is something that's going to last, this is where crypto currency has it's flaw.

I think, it will always be there side by side with fiat, and will not replace it.

Like how it is now or have it be accepted by more merchants/individuals worldwide?

Well, I also don't believe that it will replace FIAT, at least not anytime soon. But I think it has some unique characteristics that may prove to be very useful and provide a certain niche of interests. Just like gold does. Bitcoin is a very interesting means of storing value independently of countries, banks, or political implications.

Lol what?? they dont need money.! they can just pick stuff up.! Y do u think they use bitcoins? ???

Bitcoin will not replace fiat, it will just be a new type of way to pay... Kind of like how checks were a new way to pay, credit cards, debit cards, paypal. (I know, Bitcoin is different from checks, credit cards, debit cards, etc.... You get the gist.)


We seriously need to stop believing Bitcoin will replace fiat.... The only way this is possible is if "New World Order" kicks in.... Will New World Order happen?

http://memecrunch.com/meme/HXVJ/oh-hell-no/image.jpg?w=500&c=1

Right on! Sometimes the facts and figures are just in front of us and we chose to ignore it. Either due to complacency or due to other reasons. Obviously, there are people who are status quo type and will always be fine with the way things are going.

Bitcoin replace fiat? I believe. However, if new technology come out and it is better than Bitcoin.. it could easily replace Bitcoin as world currency.

Get back to reality! Bitcoin has not yet become the world currency.

Bitcoin doesn't need to become the world currency for everyone owning bitcoins now to enjoy a huge profit. Bitcoin is useful and efficient and should become use more and more.

Technology won't help serve as a world currency. It would have to be accepted along side fiat. It's not going work as of my previous point - poverty.

of course this is possible but have we more power than the banks?

Banks wouldn't exist if Bitcoin or any other crypto took over.

Define power.

Here is my take: Using force to kill, hurt, confine someone in a small room, push others around, take their things, hurt their reputation or scam someone by stealing their reality.

In other words, these are the things that immoral people, gangs, and governments do.

A rich man or woman on the other hand, who has not gotten their money or value using those methods, does not have power. The only thing a rich man can do to you when he comes by, is give you a better offer.

Thats delusional. Even if Bitcoin become mainstream, big big big big players (im talking Rothchilds and friends) will still have their banks and dollars around, and will not let the system collapse if it weakens their wealth. They will probably come up with a new fiat or something. Yes ideally we should live in a bankless world but I dont see it happening anytime soon.

I don't see how that's delusional, I meant if Bitcoin replaced fiat, I don't see how banks would seize to exist. That will most likely stay around for loans but that's going to be pretty hard if loans were to be given out in Bitcoin. 
The possibility of that happening is extremely slim, countries(governments)  wouldn't want to live in a non-corrupted world.

We can discuss and fantasize endlessly about the future of bitcoin. That's what i like about it  :)

I think someone has been sniffing too many meat fumes. ::)

Show me one crypto currency that isn't digital fiat and/or how it cannot be manipulated using the bankster's time proven methods.

And wtf about our current state of crypto affairs gives you the impression that we are free from corruption ?

In a public coin, the money supply is public.  That eliminates monetary supply fraud such as counterfeiting or otherwise creating currency without the knowledge and consent of all participants.  It doesn't eliminate all forms of corruption of course.   

   

Most don't realize that only a tiny amount of fiat is actually minted/printed. Fiat is already mostly digital, but the infrastructure used for transferring and storing it leaves much room for improvement. It's not a matter of Bitcoin replacing fiat, but more a matter of Bitcoin representing fiat in certain types of transactions, and fiat systems changing to become more like cryptographic currencies.

TT

Keep dreaming.

Your buds The scammers over at x-Children are guilty of what you claim to be impossible with cryptos.

http://blockexperts.com/child/address/CNb4B7yxZLacfM8TmndjMcvdf16tEbmvyQ

See the trust rating I left x-Laboratories and Ivanlibre for more info. ;)

The coins are public.  I didn't look for more than 2 minutes but I found that basically all of those coins were issued in the first 28 days, followed by infinite 1 coin per block inflation.  

I'm not going to claim this is fair, or defend that choice, nor the people you mentioned, but I am going to claim that at least participants are able to check the money supply.  That is an improvement over some legacy systems people used  where nobody knew how many units were issued in a given day, how many were outstanding, or how many were transacted.  

No. Those coins were created using only 1 block and TX. They cannot be traced and would have gone unnoticed had I not checked the block explorer.

Hidden premines, balance /supply altering hard forks, double spends.. Call them what you will. They all qualify as being counterfiet coins/ currency.

Now you got me curious HT :)  I will take a look.  

I see the usual glossy identical altcoin website and press releases for standard "quick use" coins, in this case an off the shelf X11 clone.  The block explorer you linked to appears to choke on that address and return the default link to genesis block.  If you tell us more about the TXid you are concerned with perhaps we could say more.  Otherwise, I put too much time in already :P 

Of course double spends and forks are possible, but additions to the money supply that aren't public seem impossible to me.  Correct me if I'm wrong please.   

Here is what the network runs for block value:   

 int64 static GetBlockValue(int nBits, int nHeight, int64 nFees)
{
int64 nSubsidy = 0;
if(nHeight<=1471)
{
nSubsidy = 80*COIN;
}
else if(nHeight<=38912)
{
nSubsidy = 40 *COIN;
}
else if(nHeight<=40352)
{
nSubsidy = 80 *COIN;
}
else if(nHeight>40352)
{
nSubsidy = 1 *COIN;
}
return nSubsidy + nFees;
}

Digital currency is a big improvement in many transactions because this can make our job or work easier and it will not take our time too much and this is one of the reason why people believe that bitcoin will replace fiat someday. However, most of the people wants to come up with a conclusion just like Andre Haldane idea but we cannot underestimate the power of government because they can’t do that for now due to the fact that the economy should be considered and falling of one country’s economy will be a big impact to the nation.

Maybe it is because Bitcoin is having plus points or advantages. In Bitcoin, users will be also investors since storing up their Bitcoin on their wallet will already yield to huge profit since its market price is continuously growing at a high rate which fiat cannot do. Even if Bioin is volatile, people nowadays are seeing it better so it is not surprising to know that there are people who believes that Bitcoin will replace fiat.

I think its because of the high price and value of the bitcoin. Replacing bitcoin over fiat is not really necessary because they are somehow the same. We all have our own opinion and we believe what we want to believe, depends on the person.

bitcoin is still being used by many people around the world, so it has so many new technologies that can replace fiat money, such easy to supervise,using blockchain has high secure than any other technologies, and no worry about taxes, or controls by governments.

I also have the same perception as you, that bitcoin today can not replace fiat money, they run side by side. Currently the majority of people see bitcoin as an asset, not as a currency that serves the tool of the transaction. So you can be sure fiat will always exist and run side by side with bitcoin.

Maybe thats because Bitcoin contains a huge amount of money, which leads them to think that Bitcoin is way better than the fiat which we somehow agree but still it will never happen because governments will never allow this to happend.

The real answer to this question is that most people aren’t really very well educated or very intelligent. There is no possibility that the average person understands enough about macroeconomics and also enough about bitcoin to see that bitcoin cannot replace fiat for even the smallest country.

Don’t be frustrated with stupid bitcoin users. Embrace them and love them because they're driving the exchange rate through the roof. If you need a release just come to this forum and make fun of them. That’s what I do and it works wonders. LOL