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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: randymarsh730 on April 08, 2012, 11:42:05 AM



Title: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: randymarsh730 on April 08, 2012, 11:42:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ujdWCXxGC9g

Max Keiser talks Bitcoins  :o


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: BitPay Business Solutions on April 08, 2012, 03:26:22 PM
Awesome!  Max and Stacy are great champions of bitcoins. We should support them whenever we can!


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 08, 2012, 03:37:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ujdWCXxGC9g

Max Keiser talks Bitcoins  :o

I think this is the beginning of Max fulfilling his and Tony's prediction of obtaining a million new Bitcoin users in 2012, as espoused at the Prague convention.

A next move would be to get Alex Jones fully on board.

Great video!

~Bruno~


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cypherdoc on April 08, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
Max,

Love u Man!

However, Bitcoin is really backed by what has been invested in the Network, as in the people, USD's, electricity, time, effort, ingenuity, software, hardware, and efficiency, of which cryptography is just a part.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: FreeMoney on April 08, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
Max,

Love u Man!

However, Bitcoin is really backed by what has been invested in the Network, as in the people, USD's, electricity, time, effort, ingenuity, software, hardware, and efficiency, of which cryptography is just a part.

Some people mean 'backing' to mean a central authority promises (lies) to give you something else valuable in exchange for it. Bitcoin is not backed in that sense.

But in our case Bitcoin is the valuable thing itself. I almost think some people would rather a promise to pay bitcoin instead of bitcoin itself. Afterall the promise is 'backed' by somthing. Same thing with gold. A paper dollar used to be a promise that you could get gold, gold is not a promise to get anything and that's why it's better.

But somehow without central promises gold can be exchanged for stuff and so can bitcoin.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: herzmeister on April 08, 2012, 06:05:20 PM

A next move would be to get Alex Jones fully on board.


no way. gold bug. his audience and sponsors too.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: evoorhees on April 08, 2012, 07:27:09 PM

A next move would be to get Alex Jones fully on board.


no way. gold bug. his audience and sponsors too.

I'm a gold bug, and I love Bitcoin.

Anyone who understands WHY gold is good money should "get it" with bitcoin. Those who like gold for the wrong reasons probably wont, but whatev.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: herzmeister on April 08, 2012, 07:37:23 PM
Those who like gold for the wrong reasons probably wont, but whatev.

yup, those  :-X


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 08, 2012, 08:22:23 PM
Max,

Love u Man!
Stacy Herbert rocks too!


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: hazek on April 08, 2012, 08:30:54 PM
The comments on the youtube video about Bitcoin don't seem to be overly positive which is a shame. It's such a mystery to me to see those negative comments so strangely resemble trolling almost as if someone pays some people to write garbage about it.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: herzmeister on April 08, 2012, 08:38:57 PM
most folks fear what they don't understand. also the "not backed by anything" again and again. it's not a rational, but psychological thing. we have to learn to deal with that.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: amencon on April 08, 2012, 09:03:16 PM
The comments on the youtube video about Bitcoin don't seem to be overly positive which is a shame. It's such a mystery to me to see those negative comments so strangely resemble trolling almost as if someone pays some people to write garbage about it.

You just described the comments on almost every youtube video in existence.

Want to feel bad about the species?  Read youtube comments.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: Boussac on April 08, 2012, 09:14:44 PM
most folks fear what they don't understand. also the "not backed by anything" again and again. it's not a rational, but psychological thing. we have to learn to deal with that.

Bitcoin is not backed by any thing, because it's backed by people, by you: 2 billion internet users (soon  ;D)


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: bulanula on April 08, 2012, 10:59:39 PM
I love their "stick it to the man / banks" attitude !


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 09, 2012, 12:09:31 AM
I love their "stick it to the man / banks" attitude !
That's because Max was a Wall Street trader even back before they became the one percent. He saw the corruption that led to the "Greed is Good" mantra firsthand.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: hazek on April 09, 2012, 12:18:58 AM
Greed is good... Greed without bad consequences is the problem.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: fornit on April 09, 2012, 12:23:20 AM
Greed is good... Greed without bad consequences is the problem.

did you just say something good not resulting in something bad is the problem?
binary logic fail  ;D


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: Raoul Duke on April 09, 2012, 01:02:37 AM
Quote
In this episode, Max Keiser and co-host, Stacy Herbert, discuss getting Zhou Tonged and Jamie Dimon-ed in financial markets.

Priceless  ;D


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: finway on April 09, 2012, 02:36:40 AM
The first Bitcoin Episode, great!


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 09, 2012, 09:29:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ujdWCXxGC9g

Max Keiser talks Bitcoins  :o

He said he would use his media leverage to promote bitcoin. Go Max! and: thanks to bitpay for working with him. The 1 million goal still stands?


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 09, 2012, 09:39:35 AM
The comments on the youtube video about Bitcoin don't seem to be overly positive which is a shame. It's such a mystery to me to see those negative comments so strangely resemble trolling almost as if someone pays some people to write garbage about it.

Many Keiser viewers are heavy metal stackers. They will come around eventually.

I know some of the reactions of the "youtube silver community" to bitcoin. With one exception (davincij15), they seem either ignorant/reluctant or outright opposed... even the smart and thoughtful ones. They (rightly?) think a strong bitcoin means weak metal and boy, they don't like that.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: BitPay Business Solutions on April 09, 2012, 01:27:12 PM
He said he would use his media leverage to promote bitcoin. Go Max! and: thanks to bitpay for working with him. The 1 million goal still stands?

Yessir, we are still working on the video for it.  It's coming along nicely!


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 09, 2012, 01:42:44 PM
He said he would use his media leverage to promote bitcoin. Go Max! and: thanks to bitpay for working with him. The 1 million goal still stands?

Yessir, we are still working on the video for it.  It's coming along nicely!

the one that has been funded via piratemyfilm "Screw Banks - Use Bitcoin"? Can't wait ;)





Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 09, 2012, 03:05:22 PM
that Michelle Bowans (?) guy from the p2p foundation is awesome:

Quote
There's a few things we like about Bitcoin. The first thing is, we call it a 'socialist sovereign currency', so it's a currency which is not created by the banks and it's not created by the state. It really exists because there is a human community, you know, the hacker community, the bitcoin community, which wants this to works and trusts the protocol that is designed to create the money.
So this is a kind of historical moment for [?] with failing currency: we used to have local currencies, then the nationstate came and basically destroyed them. The fact that we now have a working global currency that is created by a community - in our mind - is usually significant as a kind of symbolic moment in the history of mankind.

awesome!


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 09, 2012, 03:26:07 PM
that Michelle Bowans (?) guy from the p2p foundation is awesome:

Quote
There's a few things we like about Bitcoin. The first thing is, we call it a 'socialist sovereign currency', so it's a currency which is not created by the banks and it's not created by the state. It really exists because there is a human community, you know, the hacker community, the bitcoin community, which wants this to works and trusts the protocol that is designed to create the money.
So this is a kind of historical moment for [?] with failing currency: we used to have local currencies, then the nationstate came and basically destroyed them. The fact that we now have a working global currency that is created by a community - in our mind - is usually significant as a kind of symbolic moment in the history of mankind.

awesome!
and grok!


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 09, 2012, 04:27:47 PM
Greed is good... Greed without bad consequences is the problem.

did you just say something good not resulting in something bad is the problem?
binary logic fail  ;D

Greed is good PERIOD

It's what drives evolution and has driven it since the first spark of life. I kinda like evolution, don't you? ;)
Everything that evolves also goes extinct. That's why punctuated equilibrium is observed in long existing species. Humanity exists because we learned to cooperate instead of continuously compete for every resource. We learn to delay gratification for better rewards for ourselves and everyone else.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: benjamindees on April 09, 2012, 04:50:30 PM
Lemmings are predictable as well.  Do you think perhaps greed should be tempered with a bit of risk-aversion?


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: wachtwoord on April 09, 2012, 04:53:36 PM
It is by definition.

I think you (and with you many others) are confusing greed and recklessness. Greed simply means doing all things primarily in your own interest (either directly or indirectly).


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: benjamindees on April 09, 2012, 05:01:44 PM
Yes, but then the question becomes "over what time period?"  Because the most striking examples of modern 'greed' involve recklessly acting "in ones own interest" over the short term, typically a few quarters or even, in one high profile case, over a weekend.  Keynesians, for example, would argue that the upper limit for "acting in ones own interest" is the span of a single human life, and that we should be forced to act in our interest over longer timespans.  Civilizations, even, often fail to act in their own long term best interests, and eventually collapse from overreach and resource exhaustion.  So what makes you any different?  When you claim to act in your own best interest, how far into the future are you planning?


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 09, 2012, 05:04:09 PM
Yes, we collaborate out of greed.

The point is ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.
Greed works, greed is right, greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the evolutionary spirit
Greed in all of its forms, greed for money, for life, love knowledge, has marked the upwards surge of man kind.
And Greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

Thank you very much

(yes I typed that from memory).

I love that all other people are greedy as well. Makes them predictable :)
Tautologies are my favorite of all fallacies. Then deny the antecedent and mix ad nauseum. It makes a cocktail best served with double shot chasers.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: Portnoy on April 09, 2012, 05:23:32 PM
Greed simply means doing all things primarily in your own interest (either directly or indirectly).

In common usage it usually means doing all things primarily in your own interest, at the expense of others.

More and more scientific evidence seems to show us that cooperation tends to get one a better life than cut-throat
competition.  Some may suggest that is what separates humans (potentially) from wild animals... but even modern
studies seem to show us that there is more cooperation in, wild and red in tooth and claw, nature then we had previously
thought.

This little ancient allegory below I feel illustrates it very well ( despite it appearing on the surface as some sappy sunday school story,
it was originally Taoist, I think, but often gets mangled into some Christian form for use in the modern West ):

There is a story about a man who left this earth and was taken on a tour of the inner realms.  He was shown a room where he saw a large group of hungry people trying to eat dinner from a single large pot in the center of the room, but because their spoons were longer than their arms, they were frustrated.  "This," his guide told him, "is hell."  "That's terrible," the man exclaimed.  "Please show me heaven."  "Very well," agreed the guide, and off they went.  When they opened the door to heaven, the man was perplexed to see what looked like exactly the same scene:  there was a group of people with spoons longer than their arms and the same pot of food in the center of the room.  But as he looked more closely, he saw happy faces and well-fed bodies, for there was one important difference:  the people in heaven had learned to feed each other. 



Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: wachtwoord on April 09, 2012, 05:42:56 PM
@cbeats: you are correct I made no arguments whatsoever. I just posed some statements. I don't believe that makes it a tautology since I didn't imply they were arguments to begin with. And why do you think my final statement is contradictionairy with the rest of the statements?

@Portnoy: I disagree with your initial statement. Actions be taken due to greed as the primary motivator are in the subjects own interest but do not necessarily hurt others. They can of course, but whether they do or don't just doesn't matter. So I believe our disagreements stems from a disagreement of the definition of the term greed. This is probably the cause of the "for lack of a better word"-part.



Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 09, 2012, 06:00:36 PM
@cbeats: you are correct I made no arguments whatsoever. I just posed some statements. I don't believe that makes it a tautology since I didn't imply they were arguments to begin with. And why do you think my final statement is contradictionairy with the rest of the statements?
A statement is by definition an argument. Untrue statements are poor arguments. I'm not even sure where to begin with the errors in logic. First you say that greed is acting in our own interest (to take advantage of our position), then you say greed is collaborating, which is by definition working with others. I think you are going to great lengths to redefine the term cooperation to serve your hypothesis that "greed is good." That is another fallacy called moving the goalposts. You then use that to make your tautology that cooperation is good. The requirement for cooperation is mutual good, hence a tautology. Given the fact that you meorized Gordon Gekko's speech, it shows that quite possibly you committed another fallacy and missed the point of the movie. Did you also feel bad for the poor Cobra Kai?  :D


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: wachtwoord on April 09, 2012, 06:22:40 PM
Didn't watch the movie sorry :)

Collaboration can (and quite often is) in one's own interest. There is no contradiction there. If you can't agree with that I don't really know what to do with you....

Secondly, I do not redefine the term greed. I never used another definition.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 09, 2012, 06:32:42 PM
Since you don't see my logic, we're at an impass. As far as the "Greed is good" mentality, we'll just have to agree to disagree. At the risk of committing an argumentum ad populum, I'll just be on the side that believes that greed is immoral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins#Greed).


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 09, 2012, 06:47:40 PM
Greed is good... Greed without bad consequences is the problem.

did you just say something good not resulting in something bad is the problem?
binary logic fail  ;D

Greed is good PERIOD

It's what drives evolution and has driven it since the first spark of life. I kinda like evolution, don't you? ;)

There's no good or bad a priori and evolution is about survival.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: notme on April 09, 2012, 06:54:07 PM
Greed is good... Greed without bad consequences is the problem.

did you just say something good not resulting in something bad is the problem?
binary logic fail  ;D

Greed is good PERIOD

It's what drives evolution and has driven it since the first spark of life. I kinda like evolution, don't you? ;)

There's no good or bad a priori and evolution is about survival.

+1

Good and bad don't exist outside the individual who labels events/concepts as such.  Some people even go so far as to actively discourage themselves from applying such distinctions to observations and concepts.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 09, 2012, 06:57:53 PM
Greed simply means doing all things primarily in your own interest (either directly or indirectly).

In common usage it usually means doing all things primarily in your own interest, at the expense of others.

More and more scientific evidence seems to show us that cooperation tends to get one a better life than cut-throat
competition.  Some may suggest that is what separates humans (potentially) from wild animals... but even modern
studies seem to show us that there is more cooperation in, wild and red in tooth and claw, nature then we had previously
thought.

This little ancient allegory below I feel illustrates it very well ( despite it appearing on the surface as some sappy sunday school story,
it was originally Taoist, I think, but often gets mangled into some Christian form for use in the modern West ):

There is a story about a man who left this earth and was taken on a tour of the inner realms.  He was shown a room where he saw a large group of hungry people trying to eat dinner from a single large pot in the center of the room, but because their spoons were longer than their arms, they were frustrated.  "This," his guide told him, "is hell."  "That's terrible," the man exclaimed.  "Please show me heaven."  "Very well," agreed the guide, and off they went.  When they opened the door to heaven, the man was perplexed to see what looked like exactly the same scene:  there was a group of people with spoons longer than their arms and the same pot of food in the center of the room.  But as he looked more closely, he saw happy faces and well-fed bodies, for there was one important difference:  the people in heaven had learned to feed each other. 


also very relevant classic film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6XGiAOjkrE called "Balance"


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cbeast on April 09, 2012, 07:09:53 PM
Good and bad don't exist outside the individual who labels events/concepts as such.  Some people even go so far as to actively discourage themselves from applying such distinctions to observations and concepts.
Yes and no. Spindle cells, mirror neurons, and other higher brain functions exist in highly intelligent animals. Knowing right and wrong is hardwired. Empathetic and ethical people can be spotted by brain scans independent of any labels. We all have the capability of developing our humanity. Acting on those feelings is another matter.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: hazek on April 09, 2012, 07:16:30 PM
When I said greed is good and that greed without bad consequences is the problem I meant that greed is a healthy and even a required impulse to drive progress, innovation and ultimately growth in the marketplace which benefits all of it's participants and that the cause of problems that arise in the marketplace when it's trying to progress, innovate and grow is the artificially removed risks of a loss.

As long as you have greed coupled with the risk of loss those two forces balance each other out and are healthy and required if your goal is to have the marketplace grow productively.


Oh and I agree there is no objective good or bad outside of trying to reach a specific objective goal.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: wachtwoord on April 09, 2012, 07:51:21 PM
I agree with every word of the above post.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: evoorhees on April 09, 2012, 08:04:00 PM
Quote

More and more scientific evidence seems to show us that cooperation tends to get one a better life than cut-throat
competition. 


Free market competition is not "cut-throat." Nobody's throat is cut. Market competition, in fact, is nothing but unrestricted cooperation. Because not every relationship/arrangement makes sense to cooperate on (ie - no reason for you to fly to my house to help me organize my bookshelf right now), it leads to clusters of cooperating agents (like companies) who then compete for scarce resources such as time, food, and bitcoins.

Thus, an open market place is pure unadulterated cooperation - it is the natural limit and expression of cooperation among individuals, and competition necessarily results from this spontaneous cooperation. So long as nobody's throat is actually being cut, it should be regarded as the proper way for elegant and productive beings to interact socially.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 09, 2012, 08:38:41 PM
When I said greed is good and that greed without bad consequences is the problem I meant that greed is a healthy and even a required impulse to drive progress, innovation and ultimately growth in the marketplace which benefits all of it's participants and that the cause of problems that arise in the marketplace when it's trying to progress, innovate and grow is the artificially removed risks of a loss.

As long as you have greed coupled with the risk of loss those two forces balance each other out and are healthy and required if your goal is to have the marketplace grow productively.


Oh and I agree there is no objective good or bad outside of trying to reach a specific objective goal.

I think I understand what you mean by "greed is good" and I agree to the extent that greed can greatly motivate people and doing selfish things can include be altruistic.

Now I have another problem: the growth paradigm.

To get back on topic, listen to what Bauwen says in the discussed video:

Quote
Imagine you're a martian and you come to this planet and you see this race of humans actually destroying the biosphere. And the reason they do this is because the believe the system is based on the idea that we have infinite material resources. And this is just not true. So becauase of compound interest and other features which mean we have to grow all the time and this creates this compound exponential growth. And the planet can no longer carry it, so this is the real crisis of our system.

you say "growth in the marketplace which benefits all of it's participants". I'm not so sure. What kind of growth is it? Does any growth create benefit?

Here's an example: I talked to a friend last night, he works in engineering and these guys are currently investing thousands of EUR into chaning a certain part of some machinery they sell, a part that is screwed onto some other part of the machine. What's the change? Well, they change it so that it breaks when you screw it off for maintenance so that the customer has to buy that part again.

That's driven by greed. Does it imply growth? Hell yea: more money is moved, more parts sold, GDP increases. Does it benefit all participants (or even just: is the sum of all participants' benefits positive): hell no! More natural resources are used, more work is expended, the uptime of the product is reduced and the maintenance cost increased.

So here we have a case of "growth" not being beneficial for the whole of society. War is another such case.

So no, greed is not necessarily good.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: hazek on April 09, 2012, 08:56:35 PM
you say "growth in the marketplace which benefits all of it's participants". I'm not so sure. What kind of growth is it? Does any growth create benefit?

If some participants suffer because of growth then by definition that's not growth that benefits all. Growth that destroys the environment for certain participants would file under that category. If those participants do not have the ability to defend themselves which would mean that the greed fueling this growth lacks the risk of defense by those people which would then cause loses for the business destroying the environment then that is the problem I mentioned.

Here's an example: I talked to a friend last night, he works in engineering and these guys are currently investing thousands of EUR into chaning a certain part of some machinery they sell, a part that is screwed onto some other part of the machine. What's the change? Well, they change it so that it breaks when you screw it off for maintenance so that the customer has to buy that part again.

That's driven by greed. Does it imply growth? Hell yea: more money is moved, more parts sold, GDP increases. Does it benefit all participants (or even just: is the sum of all participants' benefits positive): hell no! More natural resources are used, more work is expended, the uptime of the product is reduced and the maintenance cost increased.

So here we have a case of "growth" not being beneficial for the whole of society. War is another such case.

Again, is the risk of loses because the customers of this firm can defend themselves by either demanding refunds for a faulty product via their contract or giving this business a bad review and taking their money someplace else present? If it isn't then that is the cause for this problem.

So no, greed is not necessarily good.

I never said it was.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: apetersson on April 16, 2012, 04:17:22 PM
More Bitcoin Evangelism by Max:
During the "Exorcism of Blythe Masters" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlmry45eI3g#t=4008s


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 16, 2012, 06:48:06 PM
More Bitcoin Evangelism by Max:
During the "Exorcism of Blythe Masters" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlmry45eI3g#t=4008s


nice to hear someone from the audience mention to max that bitcoin is not only a sort of "online western union", but also a money.

Weird to see him answer something like "well, that's another aspect of it, the value moves up and down", the f..ck!?! And next he mentions Stacy is up 60% on bitcoin, lol. Store of value, Max?


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: cypherdoc on April 16, 2012, 07:00:55 PM
More Bitcoin Evangelism by Max:
During the "Exorcism of Blythe Masters" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlmry45eI3g#t=4008s


nice to hear someone from the audience mention to max that bitcoin is not only a sort of "online western union", but also a money.

Weird to see him answer something like "well, that's another aspect of it, the value moves up and down", the f..ck!?! And next he mentions Stacy is up 60% on bitcoin, lol. Store of value, Max?

yes, i would have thought Max understood Bitcoin a little better than he does.  

it's not backed by Cryptology, its backed by the network and all that entails.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: apetersson on April 16, 2012, 08:14:25 PM
the word "backed" is misunderstood most of the time..

a gold standard currency.. backed by gold. is gold backed by anything?

a fiat currency.. is it backed by nothing? no, it is backed by trust from the users, the obligation to pay taxes in it and sometimes soldiers firing at you if you sell your wares (f.ex. oil) for anything else.

so bitcoins are not only backed by trust from the bitcoin community, but also by the open source software, the cryptography behind it, the infrastructure and the utility function as a means of exchange (unlike gold).


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: beckspace on April 16, 2012, 08:17:34 PM
nice to hear someone from the audience mention to max that bitcoin is not only a sort of "online western union", but also a money.

Like Evoorhees said: "Bitcoin is two things: it is a digital currency unit and it is the global payment network.

Keiser is only emphasizing the second aspect.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: herzmeister on April 16, 2012, 09:34:44 PM
yup, Keiser has "emphasized" this many times. Maybe because he has gold sponsors too.  :D


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 17, 2012, 05:12:58 AM
nice to hear someone from the audience mention to max that bitcoin is not only a sort of "online western union", but also a money.

Like Evoorhees said: "Bitcoin is two things: it is a digital currency unit and it is the global payment network.

Keiser is only emphasizing the second aspect.

I can't imagine he doesn't understand the money aspect of bitcoin. After all, he's got Stacy ;). Also earlier last year he said bitcoin was the "currency of the resistance". Come on, he's getting it quite allright, I'd say.

Question remains: why does he downplay the money (currency sounds politically motivated and tied to a nationstate somehow, so I use "money" instead) aspect. I'm thinking maybe he's not done buying yet. He's talking about silver bullets in his "blythe standup" referenced a couple posts up, maybe he'll talk about "digital crypto bullets" once he decides he's acquired enough bitcoin.

He's in the camp with bit-pay, who strongly emphasize the payment system aspect, too. They're trying to get one million new users this year, maybe it really is the better way to go marketing-wise and there just aren't enough average joe with the understanding of the need of good money yet and they can be "sold" more easily that way?

Ideas?


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: benjamindees on April 17, 2012, 11:24:30 PM
I'm sure it has more to do with thinking of alternative "currency" or "money" as "illegal terrorism" since that's what the US government has tried to make it out as.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: wachtwoord on April 18, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Did anyone say free beer?  ;)


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: BitPay Business Solutions on April 18, 2012, 06:27:16 PM
You can buy beer with bitcoins at Whiskey Dicks in Orlando!  At current prices it's 0.4 BTC for a beer, not free, but good enough. I will be there tonight.


Title: Re: Max Keiser Report on Bitcoins! 4/7/2012
Post by: molecular on April 18, 2012, 10:48:47 PM
Question remains: why does he downplay the money (currency sounds politically motivated and tied to a nationstate somehow, so I use "money" instead) aspect. I'm thinking maybe he's not done buying yet. He's talking about silver bullets in his "blythe standup" referenced a couple posts up, maybe he'll talk about "digital crypto bullets" once he decides he's acquired enough bitcoin.

He's in the camp with bit-pay, who strongly emphasize the payment system aspect, too. They're trying to get one million new users this year, maybe it really is the better way to go marketing-wise and there just aren't enough average joe with the understanding of the need of good money yet and they can be "sold" more easily that way?

Ideas?

I'd say it's marketing, and I think you nailed it with there being not enough average Joes who can understand money. What do most people associate with terms like "money" and "currency"? They'll probably think: banks! Financial crisis! Loan repayments! Credit card debt! Income tax!  >:(... What about "payment system"?: Ebay! Cool toys! Gadgets! Paypal! Amazon! New book DVD in the mail! Yay! :D

I suppose if we could capture this hypothetical "Joe ADHD-is-my-middle-name Average" specimen and handcuff them to a chair, in theory we could make them learn the error of their ways, but it's just not going to happen. Besides, they might faint from unusually high frontal cortex activity. Perhaps it's cynicism, but how does one re-educate an entire society about money, just so that they can understand Bitcoin? It seems so much easier to just go with the "free beer!" tactic.

oh, but it's simple: let fiat hyperinflation ensue and Joe will understand.