Bitcoin Forum

Cloud mining has been a heated topic recently. Some analysts say although the price of coins is going down, the price of cloud mining is rising in general. And some cloud mining providers have even run of stocks of their products.

To me the market a little weird. I think for the cloud mining industry to better develop, it should invite more competition. And buyers should evaluate the risk and returns in advance.

What is your thought on this? :D

Of course,it can be profitable. I don't have to warn my little one of heated miners ,huh huh ;D

If I have the hash i will be rich!

Sounds cool :)

A newbie question:What would be good choices for buying hash?

Please read the forum rules.

Gaw Gaw Gaw Sall I Hear Hashlets lets everybody own their own little Mh/s Baby Kinda Like the Ol Zeus Blizzards, They are Known for Using Zeus Miner Chips Anyway. Zeus is going to be opening Zeus Hash soon It's about to finish beta I have .13 mh/s from a previous order there... Its my little paycheck Cheesy


http://gawminers.com/pages/hashlet (http://gawminers.com/pages/hashlet)

https://zeusminer.com/ (https://zeusminer.com/)

http://zeushash.com/index.html (http://zeushash.com/index.html)

Wish you the best of luck Cloud Mining, its the quieter option to being a Miner.
p.s. No Shame in Refferrals  Grin

None of the cloud mining is profitable, if there is one please share..

Many discussions on this topic.  DrG has a great post about cloud mining here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0.

The short of it is that cloud mining companies are businesses, and the goal of any business is to make a profit.  As such, they have designed their services in such a way as to minimize the risk on themselves and transfer it to you.  You, as the consumer, have little to no chance to ever profit.

The Reason we Cloud Mine is To Obtain Coin w/o inflated Platform Prices, and to sell coin once its become profitable.

Want an example of a cloud mining that is profitable, the person that buys Cloud Share right before the price of coin goes up.

Those who wish to buy something like a cloud contract and then sell the coins immediately are well Near sighted and of course 99% time Loose any return on their investment.

Just ask the Guy with 1000 Bitcoins he bought at 20$ uSD a piece and sold at 90$ woot profit huh

20 * 1000 20,000 invested
1000 * 90  90,000   Cashed out
1000 * 1200  1,200,000 Max profit....
                  1,110,000 Profit Missed


There were days when CLoud Mining BTC was not profitable wat so ever yet had those Cloud miners held for 6 months they would have profited 1000%'s of percent.

Simple,

You've got an interestingly convoluted view on things.  If your sole intention of cloud mining is to obtain coins and sell once profitable, why would you even bother with the cloud mining at all?  Just buy some coin outright and hold it.  Also, if you think you're not paying inflated platform prices by cloud mining you're delusional.

I think you smoked too much weed and "brokjen" your head.  Cloud mining will, in almost 99.999% of the cases return less coins then you could have just purchased.  You're also then at risk of losing out on a price spike to sell because you'll be sitting there with your thumb up your but waiting to earn your coins back hoping the spike doesnt deflate beflre you get your chedder back.

And that is why Cex.io was "smart" and the buyers of their hash were "stupid".

Buy 1000 BTC in Jan 2013 for about $13K on BTCe
Move coins to cold wallet
Sell 1000 BTC in Dec 2013 for $1.2Million on BTCe

Total time invested, about 20 minutes and daily checking of prices.

Mining on cloud mining or selling on cex.io to try to break even - endless nights of work to gain 1BTC.

Comedy of errors.

I thought Cloud mining was dictated by supply and demand ... surely at some point it becomes profitable?

With more cloud centres popping up would you expect the competition to be good for cloud mining profitability?

I'm interested to see what ZeusHash (http://"http://www.zeushash.com/?raf=1275") beta prices launch at.

I kind of like the 'idea' of cloud mining, and would definitely prefer not dealing with the electric bills.  I'd like to just set and forget I guess.

I agree with what the person above said though.  Those figures, in hindsight, cex.io was a terrible investment compared to buying crypto.

Presumably when someone loses, someone somewhere wins right?

It can't go down forever can it?  ???

Inflated platform prices are on the trading platforms themselves. Most Coins people bother to mine are inflated or pumped. Not all cloud mining operations could have been profitable but surley not all have been duds. Infact Cloud mining is becoming the most popular way to own a share of the mining power. Most people dont realize that you cant actualy determine profitablilty of a coin especialy when looking long term.

IMO A combination of things make profitability and in the end USER ERROR is were most people go wrong and loose money. Play your cards right and you can make skipping rocks profitable. Even Lottery winners end up poor beacuse well people who are stupid with currency are just stupid with currency.

Cloud mining companys offer a product, stupid people buy the product when its not profitable, people who research or intellegent people buy the product when its profitable or just before it becomes profitable. The Could Mining company doesent Care if your Stupid or intellegent  their offering a service not free money.

Cant complain about that, services are good for crypto community. Scam Companys that steal pre order money are things that can bruise the community. I do suppose if BTC/LTC doubled in price tomorrow all cloud companys would suddently have a profitable product if purchased today. So Dont hate on the Cloud its As good as Gambeling by buying coins outright and selling when you seen a bump.



Buy 1000 BTC in Jan 2013 for about $13K on BTCe
Move coins to cold wallet


Sell 1000 BTC in Dec 2013 for $1.2Million on BTCe  -- You see if the Man who purchased the 1000 BTC in DEC had instead  Purchased Cloud Mining power a month Earlier he would have had a very profitable month Cloud Mining... Making your Statement = to mine buying coin = Great Investing in cloud = Great

i earned 14 euro in 2 weeks from mining

I personally suggest hosting in most cases if you are long term.  Cloud and renting are best normally for short term in my opinion.

Both KnC and the maker of antminers (bitmantech) opened separate cloud mining services today. I did "back of the napkin" calculations and it looks like that if you assume a 10% increase in difficulty levels in the near future (much lower then difficulty has been increasing in the recent past) then you will lose 50% of your investment. You will lose much more (IDR how much) if difficulty were to increase by a more realistic 20% every two weeks.

Scrypt or Sha

how much hash power and what were you mining or where?

First off cloud mining has more inherent risk than owning hardware.  With owning hardware you can stop mining at any time and sell the hardware - recouping usually at least 1/2 your initial capitol.  Very few cloud mining contracts let you exit at any time.

I can't really understand what you meant by the part I bolded.  But if you bough a cloud contract back then you would have had a few BTC trickling in everyday as opposed to the 1000BTC sitting in your wallet.  Assuming no slippage on an exchange you will ALWAYS come out ahead versus cloud mining.

Not 1 person has come out yet stating they made their ROI.

I suggest you read this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0)

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

I think that gambling with cryptocoins and mining cryptocoins is a pretty different task. Mining has its own magic. Also when you decide to become a miner you have to follow all new altcoins and be alert for any new and interesting coins. In case I knew (and anyone of us knew) that BTC would sky-rocket on Jan 13 I would have definitely bought some BTC back then. But this is a retrospective approach and nobody knows what the future of any coin will be. We, as miners keep all coins going. Without mining all minable coins would be dead.

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

The part I bolded is exactly the case the majority of the time.  People think, "I can just leave my computer running and it will make me lots of money!" Because there is indeed money involved, people will find creative ways to sucker you out of yours.  It truly amazes me the sheer number of people unwilling to do the slightest bit of research, yet willing to toss money at a thing.  It's no wonder scams like Lunamine are so prevalent... people keep lining up to throw away their money.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

I think that anybody that thinks that he can be rich by having its computer running is naive to say the least. Nowadays with all the scam coins and also with several non-reliable providers you have to be extra cautious. You have to think very carefully before you decide which coin to mine, you have to make your own research and bear the risk that is involved in your decisions. There is no magic wand that can turn a miner into an endless cash machine. Mining is prediction and luck. We have seen coins starting with the best intentions dying within weeks (market manipulation, whale attacks, etc.). It is a risky region with no standard revenue, but if you play your cards right you may make some hefty profit. But most of all I think that you should enjoy mining, enjoy guessing which will become the next coin of the day.

Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it.  Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds.  I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome.

I'm not saying only experts should mine.  if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started.  I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician.  What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining.  Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise.  You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools?

Mining is just one aspect of BTC.  There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system.  The due diligence remains on the community.  If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed.  If you're mining you have internet access.  Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free.  All it costs is people's time.  People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO.

Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever!

But why mine!?!  Mining is keeping the network up and the only reason people are concerned (the masses anyway) is because of the block subsidies.  In 2 years it gets cut to 12.5 per block.

How many people know about credit card PCI compliance?  Probably less than 1% of people out there and yet everybody in the US has a card.  Everybody uses GPS but less than 10% even know what the initials stand for.

For Bitcoin to thrive we need decentralization.  For that we need people running small rigs in their house that are easy to set up.  My Antminer S3 is worlds ahead of the BFL single I bought last year.  It has not come to the point that it "plug and play" - maybe when Google, MSFT or AAPL get involved.

Having a mining company that is 20% of the network sell you small amounts of TH/S that is fractionally truncated via software is not my idea of decentralization.

transfer all risks to customers? then that is not a business. scale effect of the business can help to lower the risks which couldn't achieve by single customer.
if you have a big mining farm, you would have a more professional technical team to do the maintenance work. Might also lower other different costs. It is a win
win deal if it is a reliable company.

As I have already mentioned earlier mining is also fun. And import taxes and high electricity prices make physical mining difficult if some cases (my case too). So unless you live in a country with low electricity price and low import taxes cloud mining is a really convenient solution!

I have learnt something from you guys here. I would definitely be careful if I would like to choose one cloud mining to invest.

Heat is a big problem especially in the subtropical zone such as my hometown, Guangdong, China. Another problem is the noise, my family has argue with me about the problem :(

Indeed you must not trust any new company which does not have a good track record. Go for companies with proven history of success and companies that care for their customers. I am sure you can find a couple companies fitting that description in this thread and do your own due diligence before you decide!

Having built my own farm I know mining can be fun.  But for the very noobie people you were talking about mining would not be fun. Those kind of people can barely operate a PC - why would they want to stare at graphs all day long.  They would want to go to Bloomindales and spend their BTC.

For those where it makes no sense to own the miner in their house there's always colocation centers.  These would allow the miner to chose his pool or p2pool and help decentralize rather than have all the power herded into one place.  Colocating miners is cheaper than cloud hashing and you get the pride of owning your own hardware.

I guess people won't rent their miners unless they get a little higher rate than what they would get mining themselves.But if the price of coin goes up then for sure cloud mining is profitable

Not really.  Well it is profitable in fiat return potentially but not the way most miners think of profit.  If you spend 1BTC to buy hashing power but only get back 0.8BTC it doesn't matter if the BTC is worth $5 or $5000 - you still lost 0.2BTC.  If all you want to do is make fiat - buy the BTC on an exchange and hope it goes up - no contract to deal with whatsoever.  Just make sure to move the coins off an exchange if you're not actively trading.

Unfortunately there are no cheap collocation centers where I live. Moreover, the electricity price is high and there are also very high import charges. I think that in my case and in similar cases cloud mining may be the only solution.

Cloud Mining can be profitable depending when you get in. Many people who started cloudmining with pbming (like me) in the beginning already reached ROI and now it is all profit. You have to do your own calculations including a little luck based on how you think the difficulty will go (based on new miners coming out etc)

Nice, was to afraid to enter into pbmining. Too many scam in bitcoin world..

Until PBMining is able to show me their block generation or information regarding their incorporation I'm going to assume they are a ponzi. Gavin labeled cloud mining as such and PBMining's response was to show some pics of a mining center.  That doesn't really prove anything.

I believe the cloud mining platform is more profitable than normal miner, it cost lesser long run(lesser electricity cost), more profitable(online is 24 hours, hence more profit), no long wait no prouder, no need to bear with heat or noise(i have a egg heater in my room), and less stress to miner(no need keep monitoring to prevent downtime).
Overall I think cloud mining will be the future, but the key point is to go with a reputable company, especially need to avoid scam companies out there... I myself has start shifting my funds to a new cloud mining service Zeushash(cloud mining service from Zeusminer), and the trans id is all traceable. I believe it is one of the reputable company out there.

Indeed, I think that we should be really careful with companies that seem to spring out of nowhere and they do not show sufficient credentials! I think you should choose respectful companies if you think that cloudmining covers your needs!

I agree with you that unless you have very cheap electricity, ample space and low custom duties cloud-mining seems to be the logical solution. But you have to make your own due diligence before you select a company to work with. I do think that Zeus is maybe the best company in scrypt mining at the moment (not bitcoin though, I think) with a proven track record and their Zeushash service works really great! They are transparent and have restored the confidence in scrypt mining after all the recent failures (Alpha, Finobbacci, Flowertech, etc.)

Absolutely. Anyone who did preorder before would know the suffering in long time waiting, and uncertainties, worrying the company would not ship out the miner.

I bought 20 over miners from Zeus, and they are delivering all on time. Besides, their 1to1 replacement for my 2 malfunction miners make me really impressed.

Now they came out with the cloud mining that is totally a blast. I believe their transparency in cloud mining would certainly beat other scam companies out there.

I tried Zeus Hash I got a mh, I was skeptical at first of cloud mining. Buying a single Mh was nice to keep my risk low as possible. Now that I know it works and its producing ill slowly invest more into the cloud to essentialy buy LTC at a slow Rate. Mining GIves me the ability to Judge the markets, I can see the fluctuations in the ouput and a movement on the market. Since I refrain from Selling LTC I can Determine The best time to straight up Buy LTC outright and Hold.  I shouldnt have said that, but meh whos gonna read it anyway.

99% of cloudmining site are not profitable.

That's all.

I think that this is an exaggeration. Profitability is determined by lots of things, e.g. the price fluctuation of the coin that you mine, when do you enter cloudmining, which company you use and what price you pay. Surely you should do your due diligence and decide which is the most profitable option!
I have also tried Zeushash, and (although this is a scrypt cloud mining service) it seems to be working very well! I am sure there will be similar options for bitcoin cloud mining.

Like the rest of the mining arena, cloud hashing or hosting is really a strange phenomena!
Normal business, trading or investing attitudes dont seem to apply.
Mining generates its own kind of buzz which lots of people want to be part of it.
Admittedly crypto is highly speculative but there are loads of people who are more than willing to invest in hardware pre-orders and current stock that has no hope of breaking even (I deliberately didnt use the completely misused acronym "ROI"). In some cases investments are made purely out of ignorance and lack of understanding of the mechanism and drivers, in some cases its because people want to be part of the process and hold a belief or hope (as I do) that crypto will rise and would rather be involved in putting blocks on the chain than investing $$.
Some people are attracted to the geeky anarchic rebellion against the establishment.

The question "profitable or not" I guess can only be properly answered with hindsight.
Cloud Hashing is just another flavour of a multifaceted industry.

I think the real question is: If you are going to be involved in crypto, what is your preferred flavour?
If it were a sure thing then the providers would be only mining into their own wallets and not selling hashing power.

IMO cloud hashing offers a few benefits over its alternatives

One avoids paying heavy import duties on hardware
It provides a good alternative to people who have to deal with high electricity costs
One can buy a contract and be mining immediately
You can add to your investment according to the market and your profits
You dont have to deal with the noise, heat & maintenance aspects of the industry
You dont need a location to run physical miners
There are no issues with environmental problems
You dont need to worry about your machines underhashing or interupted service.

For the vendors there is an existing market
for the buyers its all down to which flavour they prefer...

For me personally, I enjoy the geeky hobby aspects with an outside chance that I may get rich on it as others have with Bitcoin in the past.
I have always preferred to be in control of my hardware - but am beginning to get quite tempted by some of the latest pricing - http://cryptomining-blog.com/3425-zeushash-scrypt-cloud-mining-hashrate-now-available-for-16-usd-per-mhs/

3 Days to go until ZeusHash opens.  I'm going to buy some MH/s I've decided.

I'm just wondering whether to store my payouts or invest in more MH/s?

What do you guys generally do? Or a combination of both?

I have some small amount on pbmining, I'm quite close to ROI, but I can't really recommend starting
now, the rates are too high (and there are still uncertainties about their legitimacy). But for me it worked
out, I was also quite tired of babysitting the machines.

Scrypt-wise, I'm happy with ltcgear. Using the discount code "anniversary1yr" you can get 160 MH for
below 800$ (if you pay with BTC) and the payments can be converted to BTC automatically. I think this is as
close to ROI as one can get, considering the options available at the moment. One should be cautious
as with any investment, but for now they have a >1yr clean record.
(Yes, the link in my sig is a ref-link. Don't use it if you don't like, i'm not advertising here, just
wanted to report that I'm happy with them ;) )

What do you thing about eobot.com and its cloud service?

I don't even have to visit that URL to determine whether it's a scam or not, lol.

Hint... it's a scam.

How do I know? They haven't posted an official thread on this forum. If you're a legitimate company, that's the FIRST thing you would do.

I'm even going to go out on a limb and guess that their software is malicious. There's probably a worm that will steal your passwords and your coins.

Well, the truth is I'm a little bit worried, i mean I not gonna be poorer or richer if is a scam but, well, you start to lost confidence in this new world. 

I saw in that cloud a few good characteristics: 1) They dont have fees, just buy the hashpower. 2) The accept paypal to buy hashpower 3) You can "mine" others coins like doge, btsx, nmc, sys, ltc, drk etc. Around 13 different coins  4) You can buy either scrypt khs or sha 256 ghs, but if you buy sha 256 you only gonna get btc. ...

These seems good enought to me, so i bought some scrypt hash with paypal. Then they when i tried to do my first withdrawl, there says that for the new policy of disputes, the withadraw will be enable 180 days before my last purchase!!! That really pissme off, I call paypal, and to support of eobot and they reduce the days to 45... so right know i'm ok with that.

But there are some other things. They are more expensive that zeushash or hashlet (almost twice) and i dont know why, maybe because the free fee. Yes your account shows the coins you are "mining", but they really dont mine but LTC and BTC.I thing  at the moment you are mining they do the convertion frome LTC to DRK or BTSX, even NTX that is PoS. 

They can refund me, but I dont wanna mine BTC or LTC, wait a month, and then change them in an exchange to my coins of election -in that case is better just buy the BTC and buy NTX and BTSX or DRK, etc, and do trading and not mining.

I know with this mining stuff I'm not gonna have my ROI in a long time, that don't care me. I believe in the cryptocoins, I wanna be part of it. But also I dont want to be cheated. Everybody said me inside that the company works well, it's right, I dont have to worry about the time, they have at least 10 months working.

So if somebody have a complain about the company or information about, i will be grateful.

I beta Tested Zeus Hash, I'm loving the ability to start small in either BTC mining or LTC mining.

I really think Buying cloud hash is a lot like Trading. Buy when its a good time to buy and you will profit greatly.  ;)

I sold all my share at Gawminer and Bought LTCGear - Got First ROI Today after 4 weeks..Can't say he is real deal or not but I got my payment last 5 weeks..so far it is real.

Nice, but why did you sell gawminer to buy LTCgear? Better return?

Cloud mining is good and bad.  i like the hassle free mining and not worrying about electrical costs.  however, i do not like that someone else controls my miner and can change TOS or the status quo at the drop of a hat.  unless you are going to buy some serious Th/s i would recommend just buying the coin at current price levels.  

Even if you buy TH/s of hash rates, you will not have ROI. Although you don't have to worry about electrical cost, the maintenance fees and price per GH is ridiculously high. Don't even think about mining unless you buy a lot of ASIC (not preordering)  and have nearly free electrical cost. Cloud mining will not be profitable with the increasing difficulty and maintenance fees.

LTCgear is still extremely profitable, hop in the ROI train while you still can  ;)

This is the part I don't understand, why are ltcgear selling profitable contract..

I'm also wondering. He could double his price and people still would buy
like crazy (proof: gaw)

I believe he uses the hashing power and mines at a multipool which will earn him more and he pays out in LTC according to calculations of how many LTC can be mined with 160 Mh/s and he keeps whatever is left and uses that towards the fees and profit for himself. Thats the best way that all of this makes sense and btw i do have shares in LTCGear and love it (3100 shares) :)

Yup, even if the price is double it is still very attractive.

Ahu, I am also curious the real cost of cloud mining. And as a consumer, I really want to know wheather they are mining the coins with physical miners for me. You know, the cloud mining contrat they sell is often for above 1 year even the lifetime and the ROI needs about 1 year. If they close down suddenly, how can I treat with my investment and profit?!
Recently many cloud mining providers are dropping or adjusting the price, like zeushash.com(I got an email from them about the ZeusHash Halloween Specials since I have ever been its closed beta testing). But I dare not to throw much money in it. If zeushash have a sell back program or something else like that, I may consider a bigger investment.

anyway, I like the poster of the Halloween Specials. I am also preparing my halloween party! ;D
https://i.imgur.com/Fl6dma7.jpg



https://zeushash.com/refer/ezrt2

Zeus is next to useless, their ROI is what, about 8 months at current difficulty. Since difficulty s gonna go up, ROI is highly unlikely. ATM, the only service which can bring ROI is LTCgear, nothing else compares to it.

No ,hard to make ROI in cloud mining for now
try calculate here : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator
don't get trapped by low price of GHS, they either scam cloud mining or ponzi operation (hide in bitcoin cloud mining)