Bitcoin Forum

Isn't the objective of a speculative trader to buy LOW and sell HIGH?

I first bought some btc back in November before the massive rush to over $1k.

Now, more than ever is a seriously incredible opportunity to BUY.

How are more people not buying coins at this bargain prices?

Either something is fundamentally wrong here and we are heading towards $3xx or a MASSIVE rally is about to pop off.

Lets here what you got to say boys.

why does something have to be fundamentally wrong to go to $3xx? i think we'll see a massive rally, eventually.... but i'm open to it launching from much lower than here as well.

by the way, it's spelled "hear". :)

It's hard to say.. the price is reacting different to the drops these days. Where you would have a guaranteed bounce before, nothing happens now. I think a lot of daytraders left and were replaced with algos. Also the increased number of exchanges has probably put a damper on the movements.

what would be the specific effect of the bolded? i would think that bots/algos still have a similar net effect. i don't think day traders have much effect on the market. they are just trading the waves and chasing the bigger moves set off by whales.

Those merchants who convert bitcoin to fiat once they received payment are selling. They are not holding and will sell at any market rate.

Merchants
Miners
Traders
Defeated bulls
Jo Mamma

everyone is selling if you don't do it you will lose everything after the final capitulation

I am not selling so your "everyone" theory is shot to shit.  And you don't "lose everything" after a capitulation, you lose during.  Get your shit straight scammer.

LOL, falllling is not a scammer, he's just a harmless troll. and a broken record at that. but i'm interested since you are of the Spartan mindset. would you go down with the ship? or is there a price where you'd pack it up and go home?

Obv.   I have a negative cost basis and can afford to lose my current position.  I truely believe in Bitcoin and the potential benefits to society and if I have to go down with the ship to do my part in helping it succeed then so be it. ... Although a summer house on the lake might be nice, but If I manage my wealth properly I can afford that in time.

A lot easier said than done. We all know how panic selling works; it's mostly emotional. When you're at a huge risk of losses in fiat, emotion will take over and cause the selling.

Of course that is your objective, but your trading rules should mean you bail quickly if things go the wrong way.

As for who is selling, if you are a miner who has over capitalised at the same time as everyone else jumped on the mining band wagon then you have got to take the cash to pay your bills.

People are panicking. People are, generally speaking, irrational.

Also: A lot of people sell low to buy back at an even lower level. This is rational.
Also: For a lot of BTC traders, these aren't "bargain prices". Some traders bought their coins at way lower price levels than this.

The inverted sequence also works: sell HIGH and then buy LOW (and later sell HIGH).

anyone who wants Fiat more than BTC will sell - that includes some Miners, some Merchants, some HODLRS, some discouraged bulls and the bears.
Define High and Low, just because the price is Low compared to last November, does not make it Low compare tod last April or last July. It might be lower tomorrow and it might be higher, but at the moment it appears that fiat inflow is not keeping up with coin sales.

why bitcoin stay at $475? because no one want $476 bitcoin (over price)  8)

since bitcoin is over-price, everyone should sell at this level

Is it too easy to answer your question with "dumb people"?

Well, it certainly is interesting that the price has stagnated at this point. I thought this was cheap. The bulls are saying this is such a cheap price and everybody should be stocking up. I don't see the stocking up so call me skeptical.

there is continual sell pressure through retails sales / bitpay / coinbase. A good proportion on BTC is held by people who purchased it a cents in the dollar each

Most bulls don't really have much fiat to buy BTC with anyway, so they can't put their money where their mouth is. Instead they just pray that BTC price will somehow magically go up, and they attack anyone who points out that it's actually going down, and that it's gonna continue doing so.

I believe it is very subjective to the person. You only have seen very high tripple digit prices, hence current prices appear very cheap to you. Me for example have seen Bitcoin at prices as low as USD 2 per coin. Personally I cannot say that any three digit price appears cheap...

Many people are buying at this price. Many people are also selling at this price, and some people are holding waiting to sell at a higher price. There's always going to be a mix of the three at varying levels. Personally I wouldnt selll my coins at the current price simply because I feel it will rise dramatically at some point.

Get rich or die trying.

This captain is going down with the ship no matter what happens.

I think the bear trends will reverse soon enough though.

Just gotta persevere and make it through the tough times.

Entrepreneurs are rewarded for their vision and for seeing a future where others don't.

Ignore this troll, just browse thought his posts and you will see that he is trolling in alot of topics saying that bitcoin is ponzi etc.
And on topic mostly merchants and people who don't have enought nerves for violate market sell their coins, also altcoin IPOs.

just browse thought his posts and you will see he is right since $680, he is asking people to sell in time, who listened to him would have saved more than $200 per coin!

Why dont you sell, you bought coins at $497.

I think that people who sell in the sub $500 value is only a panic seller who doesn't believe in bitcoin.

I know some traders who are selling everyday because of ethereum, they will regret this decision.

Who sells at this level? Certainly not me, there are much more probability for the price to go up than to go down!

Bitcoin is essentially a 12 million row spreadsheet with people paying ~470$ per row to own said row.

Talking about the price of one of these 12 millions rows being overvalued or undervalued at 470$ is complete #@$@@! madness.

You're mixing up your metaphors. If it's about "a place, really just any place in the global distributed ledger", then it's actually 12M*100M rows (and 21M*100M eventually.)

If it's about buying 1/12M (21M) * global money supply, well, whether that's ever going to happen is precisely what we're in the process of discovering now, and the answer isn't as obvious to me as it seems to be to you.

For the purpose of my metaphor it's not all that important to me that you can further divide each spreadsheet row.

As for the second part, I think it's important that people abstract Bitcoin up to what it really is so they don't get carried away. "470$ is sooo cheap", for what exactly at this point? A place holder in a public ledger not yet adopted by hardly anyone?

Bitcoin or some descendant of it should make some meaningful impact but it will be like TCP/IP, almost nobody got rich on TCP/IP. People got incredibly rich on the businesses/ideas built on the platform.

I bought $471 and sold $481. Does that count? To answer your question, traders are selling.... always. In fact, it looks like traders have just been passing money back and forth the past few months, as fiat leaves the BTC economy. (Not saying that won't reverse...)

I'm tied to the mast. YARR.

Everyone and his dog know the motto buy low and sell high.

The question is why you think it is low right now? And how high is high?

I actually beleive there a lot of players who are buying, they are buying in small amounts so not to move the price up too much. They are long term investors or even bankers. So, I am not at all worried by the current "low" prices.

You keep saying that.. I don't think the word means what you think it does.

Smart cats that control the media, spread FUD for years and buy buy buy buy at a slow undetectable pace then.. BBBBAMZO.. with something like this we might see 1000% gains in a day..  7 billion... several people earn this in 1 year.. 

IMO at the next mining half the rich will strike.

Does spending count? Because I spend bitcoin no matter what the price is.

Simple: People who are afraid that we've now left a path where Bitcoin is going up. People believe we may have left the path that leads us to the next bubble. Some even consider the possibility that something fundamental has changed and Bitcoin is now "doomed" somehow. I think it's wise to at least hedge against these possibilities!

The ethereum team have already sold at roughly this level to pay bills, and might sell again at this level. Other people with  bills (like miners) could have no other choice but to sell at this level

Because they think it will go lower and what more cheap BTC to hold before the big rally towards obligatory 1K+ territory. Of course when you play with fire, you get your hand burnt. These guys trying to playout the whales will never learn.

Miners have to sell a portion of their bitcoin holdings to cover their running costs.
Companies which receive bitcoins through sales and do not want to take the exchange risk also dispose their bitcoin holdings quickly.
So I guess there are sellers even at this price.

Bitpays and other merchants. They charge at wharever is the current price, then sell the coins at wharever is the current price.

Also people that need to pay bills, including miners and business owners.

Also trade people, to short or waiting for even lower prices.

Same could be questioned about any price below the ATH, with the same answer

Is there some sort of US tax rule that forces companies accepting bitcoin payments to immediately sell?

They do have to pay taxes on their profits and that can't be paid in bitcoins.
Accounting principles also treat bitcoin as a volatile asset and companies might not want that to show in their books.

sold some to clear debt

Those with no other choice.

Very very weak hands to answer your first question.  This is just when things get interesting in my opinion and it's is pretty thrilling watching this play out.  People who watch soap operas don't know what they are missing.  :)   I know it is not fun for those that bought at a high but do you really think their aren't tons of people eagerly waiting for you to sell your coins?  I'd say buy more at this low and enjoy the ride.   

If you watch the bids/asks long enough you begin to see patterns that you can name. They are like positions on a sports team. The "price" is the line of scrimmage. There are offense and defense positions. There are plays, fakes, hail mary's, and big scores. I can almost hear the play-by-play action.

thats done with..  many more much larger daily sells and buys

no.  they pay capital gains tax later if they keep the coin and it goes up in value

There have been a ton of things that I have held off from purchasing because I am confident that BTC will be worth a lot more within 2 years. Between 'bubbles' I've resorted to alt trading to accumulate BTC before the next big rise.

Better quality of discussion here (except for Broken-Record Guy . . . )

My mob doesn't 'believe.' We have analyses; and one is: the proliferation of the merchant network etc. shows that cryptos are here to stay. So, buy.

Mark (IndiaMikeZulu), Australia

I personally feel myself that the reason we are not seeing a huge rise in bitcoin buying at the moment while it's at this price which is when you would expect to see it, is because people may be worried about a further price drop meaning they may lose out if they were to try and sell.

I myself would rather take the chance and buy cheap and hope that the price rises so that I can sell and make a profit but I don't see that many people see this right now.

I don't think so. If merchants are selling at below what they were paid in bitcoins for then these merchants are not very smart. What's the point of accepting bitcoins for payment when fiat does the job just as well AND does not lose value in mere days

Sellers would be better start to worry and buy back at loss before the rocket will leave the Earth.

dead cat bounce won't last long

$500 in 48 hours! Better buy now before you loose you chance!

Awesome discussion here guys.
Many thanks to all who contributed.
I learned that miners have to sell no matter what and right now the weak hands are being shaken out.