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Bitcoin => Project Development => Topic started by: MemoryDealers on September 16, 2014, 06:34:41 AM



Title: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: MemoryDealers on September 16, 2014, 06:34:41 AM
BitcoinBountyHunter.com (http://BitcoinBountyHunter.com) is now live.

Now anyone can contribute bitcoins to motivate people with information on criminals to provide that information to law enforcement,  or motivate law enforcement officers to take action directly.
I've personally contributed over 40 BTC for the bounties to help get things started.
With this financial motivation I hope we can help catch the dishonest among us,  and motivate those working in law enforcement to actually take action.

I'm sure there is lots of room for improvement to the site's aesthetic and technical implementation.

Please post your suggestions for improvements to the site below. 

Together we are making a better world!



Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: LiteCoinGuy on September 17, 2014, 09:43:15 AM
interesting project but also a controversial one. what happens, if i post a "crime" which isnt a crime in your country? who decides which "crime" is worth a bounty and which is not? i also could fake informations or make wrongful allegations.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: MemoryDealers on September 17, 2014, 09:45:35 AM
interesting project but also a controversial one. what happens, if i post a "crime" which isnt a crime in your country? who decides which "crime" is worth a bounty and which is not? i also could fake informations or make wrongful allegations.

Until a distributed system is developed,  I will be moderating what bounties are allowed and what are not.  
I will only be allowing bounties for crimes in which there is a clear victim.  


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: BitCoinDream on September 17, 2014, 10:02:46 AM
BitcoinBountyHunter.com (http://BitcoinBountyHunter.com) is now live.

Now anyone can contribute bitcoins to motivate people with information on criminals to provide that information to law enforcement,  or motivate law enforcement officers to take action directly.
I've personally contributed over 40 BTC for the bounties to help get things started.
With this financial motivation I hope we can help catch the dishonest among us,  and motivate those working in law enforcement to actually take action.

I'm sure there is lots of room for improvement to the site's aesthetic and technical implementation.

Please post your suggestions for improvements to the site below.  

Together we are making a better world!



Nice one. Lets see whether it can attract bounty hunters.

Regarding http://bitcoinbountyhunter.com/mtgox.html, dint we already had a lead presented here => https://www.bitcoinregime.com/2014/07/11/was-the-mt-gox-database-leaked-by-updown-bt-foundation-gold-members/ ?

I'd also like to point to the accused's response as given here => http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2arjq6/updown_response_to_the_tom_butterfield_article/


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Kluge on September 17, 2014, 10:34:46 AM
Is it even legal to have stated intent to financially "motivate law enforcement?"


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: CryptoCurrencyInc.com on September 17, 2014, 11:08:27 AM
http://www.cryptocurrencyinc.com/images/CryptoCurrency.png

MtGox stolen 34.7 bitcoins of CryptoCurrency Inc. customers' money.
I'm still waiting for that silly lawsuit to settle with MtGox so my company can get its money back.


http://oi59.tinypic.com/m7dyq8.jpg


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Oceanic on September 17, 2014, 12:58:57 PM
Great step forward Roger. I admire your courage and your inclination to action whenever you feel you have a solution for an important need. Besides, I'm like-minded philosophically.

I have one question that you might have contemplated:

While this privately incentivizes crime resolution, aren't they still going to be dealt with on a statist law enforcement system (which is the whole problem to begin with)? In other words, wouldn't we be funding government thugs to do their dis-service?

I know it's a huge topic to discuss, but I'm wondering if you've given this a thought. (And I understand that the state has the monopoly on law enforcement, so there's no possibility of directing the idea towards private solutions, at least not that I can think of right now)...

In any case. Thanks for being a man of action.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Schnudelu on September 17, 2014, 01:10:31 PM
Nice idea lets the hunting start


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 17, 2014, 03:02:49 PM
interesting project but also a controversial one. what happens, if i post a "crime" which isnt a crime in your country? who decides which "crime" is worth a bounty and which is not? i also could fake informations or make wrongful allegations.

Until a distributed system is developed,  I will be moderating what bounties are allowed and what are not.  
I will only be allowing bounties for crimes in which there is a clear victim.  

Oh really, and who are you to decide who is a "clear victim"?  The world does not need you being some kind of judge and jury.  Why are you trying to link this stuff to Bitcoin?  Other than using that as a payment system it has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  You are doing the same thing as all those news articles that try to link Bitcoin to stuff just because it is being used a payment method.  It is not "Internet Bounty Hunter" because it is being done on the Internet, it is "Bitcoin Bounty Hunter" because Bitcoin is being used as a payment method.

These kind of stunts gets a few upvotes on reddit but they drive the general population away from Bitcoin and make it weaker.  Bitcoin is politically agnostic and it merely gives people more tools to do what they want.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: pedrosoft on September 17, 2014, 03:32:46 PM
I partially agree with this service, but I'm also concerned about the possible implications


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: coins101 on September 17, 2014, 04:08:22 PM
Did you ever recover those Bitcoins from 2011?

Add that to the bounty list?


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Ragnarly on September 17, 2014, 04:25:14 PM
Excellent.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: mrbildo on September 17, 2014, 04:51:18 PM
Excellent idea, I have thought about setting up a similar website for activism and direct action.
I suggest you think about splitting the site up geographically to encourage grassroots involvement.
Perhaps register a few international domains and forward them to localized  areas of the webpage?

I hope this takes off anyway


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: cryptocointools on September 17, 2014, 05:32:57 PM
Great idea. Way to get the ball moving.
I think this could be successful in time.
Maybe eventually it could incorporate a timeline of updates and details to each bounty, so users could track the potential progress being made. This way it won't look so static, like nothing is happening or being done.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: bhaathongcrusher31 on September 17, 2014, 06:46:59 PM
interesting project but also a controversial one. what happens, if i post a "crime" which isnt a crime in your country? who decides which "crime" is worth a bounty and which is not? i also could fake informations or make wrongful allegations.

Until a distributed system is developed,  I will be moderating what bounties are allowed and what are not.  
I will only be allowing bounties for crimes in which there is a clear victim.  


look like this oculd easyly become a place where innocent ppl get shit on hardcore

look in nxt what hapend to wrongly doxed guys. i like u roger but u may be over ur head of this one,unless u moniter the contents urself.  :P


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: bbit on September 17, 2014, 09:51:10 PM
I really like this idea! Going to see if I can add the place I was scammed at to it.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: BTCLuke on September 17, 2014, 10:18:39 PM
Oh really, and who are you to decide who is a "clear victim"?  
It's not a matter of "who," it's a matter of the victim having a pulse or not.  All too often laws are passed to benefit the MPAA or 'the environment' or some other non-human. This is Roger's way of saying that bounties can be made for crimes against humans, not corporations that hired lobbyists to change laws in their favor.


The world does not need you being some kind of judge and jury.  
I couldn't disagree more. The world needs FOR EVERYONE to be some kind of judge and jury, and take that power away from the assholes ruining our 'justice systems' now.


Bitcoin is politically agnostic and it merely gives people more tools to do what they want.
LOL. No matter how many times you repeat that pathetic wish it isn't going to come true.

Facts are facts; bitcoin cannot be removed from its' incentive structure, and that will not allow banks to survive. It simply outcompetes them on every level and gives away all of their services for free.

Meanwhile, banks tell the politicians what to do. Saying bitcoin isn't political is like saying a Tank isn't for warfare.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 17, 2014, 10:45:04 PM
LOL. No matter how many times you repeat that pathetic wish it isn't going to come true.


Bitcoin is a protocol, not a political thing.  It may be used by all types of people for all types of reasons, including political but that does not mean it is itself a political things.  All these arguments were already played out when the Internet was developed.  in 1995 there were groups saying the Internet was meant for research and advertising would not be allowed.  One guy used to say it meant freedom and he attached child porn pics to all his newsgroup posting to "prove" the Internet meant freedom.  Where are those people now?   Who knows?  They have faded into oblivion and, what do you know, the Internet is now used by all sorts of factions to do all sorts of things.  It did not free people from the State because they now use the Internet to track people.  So which is it?  A tool for freedom or a tool for the State to track people?  The answer is that it is both.

There are several people who have latched onto Bitcoin to promote their personal agenda.  They try to claim to know what Bitcoin is and try to imply people who use it agree with them.  That is what is going on here when people say Bitcoin is inherently political.  Some people say it is a tool of freedom fighters while other say it is a tool of the State to track transactions.  It will be used by both those factions for their purpose because Bitcoin has no political motive, it has a mind of its own.  If you listen to Peter Todd in his interviews on let's Talk Bitcoin he explains it well.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: TheButterZone on September 17, 2014, 10:56:43 PM
Bitfloor page?


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 17, 2014, 11:35:10 PM
Mr. Ver says because I don't like his ideas that I don't understand Bitcoin.  He wanted to make some challenge over his claim that Bitcoin will end wars.

My idea for a challenge is that we get 200 random people who never heard of Bitcoin. 

100 people are shown Bitcoin Bounty Hunter and his video.  The other hundred will be shown the http://bitcoin.me video.  Afterwards they can be asked if they would plan to use Bitcoin the future.  What do you think the results would be?


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: jl2035 on September 17, 2014, 11:59:02 PM
Not much of a website.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but looks like they should talk to some PHP guy.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: MemoryDealers on September 18, 2014, 03:18:08 AM
Bitfloor page?

Great idea!  Can someone who was directly involved, and wants to create the content for the page contact me at ask@bitcoinbountyhunter.com ?

There have been lots of other great requests for new bounties as well. 
Some of them will be online in the coming days.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HostFat on September 18, 2014, 04:15:09 AM
Great service, and I hope that Oracles and/or projects like this https://github.com/psztorc/Truthcoin will bring some good tech to make this decentralized.

Maybe this is an interesting thread where is possible to find many ideas for bounties:)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: BTCLuke on September 18, 2014, 04:22:22 AM
Bitcoin is a protocol,
Correct. Let's look at exactly what that means.

A protocol is a standardized way of doing something. Recipes are good examples of protocols.

You could make a very sweet cake with too much sugar in your recipe, or you could put in some jalapeno peppers and put someone in the hospital... Both recipes, when written down, are protocols.

Bitcoin is not a bland recipe for currencies. Satoshi understood the ingredients he was working with far better than most, and not just the cryptography... He understood economics, which is the science of human action as it relates to value.

By placing the right economic incentives in the recipe, there is only one possible outcome for this money's future. It will keep giving people reasons to leave other currencies and only hold bitcoin for years and years to come. Probably all the way to 2140 when all coins are mined. National currencies have absolutely Zero chance against this recipe. It's in the bag.

Since nations are funded by printing currencies, and in fact are no longer capable of waging war without control of a printing press for money, (No decent-sized war in 100 years was funded by taxpayer money!) Satoshi's recipe is the most devastating move that can be imagined in any modern political arena.



All these arguments were already played out when the Internet was developed.  in 1995 there were groups saying the Internet was meant for research and advertising
ISPs are centralized, and the governments of the world easily control them. It isn't surprising to anyone paying attention that the internet cannot be the bastion of freedom it was meant to be.

...Of course the Meshnets are coming, but that's another argument for another time.



Some people say it is a tool of freedom fighters while other say it is a tool of the State to track transactions.

The former group understands economics & praxeology, the latter has problems with the concept of distributed software architecture.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: BTCLuke on September 18, 2014, 04:29:35 AM
@Roger:  You mention on the page that you eventually want BBH to be distributed... Have you considered talking to the OpenBazaar devs to see if you can get it included into that software? I've seen the beta; this thing could replace amazon & the Silk Road both someday.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 18, 2014, 04:49:19 AM
Bitcoin is a protocol,
Correct. Let's look at exactly what that means.

A protocol is a standardized way of doing something. Recipes are good examples of protocols.

You could make a very sweet cake with too much sugar in your recipe, or you could put in some jalapeno peppers and put someone in the hospital... Both recipes, when written down, are protocols.

Bitcoin is not a bland recipe for currencies. Satoshi understood the ingredients he was working with far better than most, and not just the cryptography... He understood economics, which is the science of human action as it relates to value.

By placing the right economic incentives in the recipe, there is only one possible outcome for this money's future. It will keep giving people reasons to leave other currencies and only hold bitcoin for years and years to come. Probably all the way to 2140 when all coins are mined. National currencies have absolutely Zero chance against this recipe. It's in the bag.

Since nations are funded by printing currencies, and in fact are no longer capable of waging war without control of a printing press for money, (No decent-sized war in 100 years was funded by taxpayer money!) Satoshi's recipe is the most devastating move that can be imagined in any modern political arena.



All these arguments were already played out when the Internet was developed.  in 1995 there were groups saying the Internet was meant for research and advertising
ISPs are centralized, and the governments of the world easily control them. It isn't surprising to anyone paying attention that the internet cannot be the bastion of freedom it was meant to be.

...Of course the Meshnets are coming, but that's another argument for another time.



Some people say it is a tool of freedom fighters while other say it is a tool of the State to track transactions.

The former group understands economics & praxeology, the latter has problems with the concept of distributed software architecture.


you have a lot of hyperbole in there and you confuse what something is with how it can be used.  Also, Bitcoin is not a religion and Satoshi is not some kind of messiah.  If you go around saying how Bitcoin is going to abolish banks nobody reasonable will listen to you.  In fact banks will most likely be using Bitcoin in the future and nothing will "collapse."  Bitcoin is part of an evolutionary process and people who go around with all kinds of hyperbole about governments and banks collapsing and wars ending really do no good.  Even if it was true promoting it in that fashion will assure it always stay weak and never catch on.

These people discuss these issues. Ted Nelson dismisses the whole "wing nut" group in a couple sentences and that is how most people react:

Preston Byrne: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder
Peter Todd:  https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/e73-round-pegs-and-square
Ted Nelson:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CMucDjJQ4E

I used to think that Free state project was a good thing.  I have changed my mind because bringing these people together isolates them and distances them from reality and they sit around reinforcing each other with nonsense.  It would be much better if they were dispersed among the regular population so they could live in reality.



Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: MemoryDealers on September 18, 2014, 06:17:54 AM
@Roger:  You mention on the page that you eventually want BBH to be distributed... Have you considered talking to the OpenBazaar devs to see if you can get it included into that software? I've seen the beta; this thing could replace amazon & the Silk Road both someday.

I'm very interested in and supportive of OpenBazaar.
I'm confident distributed hosting of some sort will be available within the next few years.
Currently I'm trying to figure out a way to make the payouts trustless using something like http://realitykeys.com/ (http://realitykeys.com/)


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: BTCLuke on September 18, 2014, 07:14:45 AM
you confuse what something is with how it can be used.
Not quite; I am speaking of economic incentives. Things that get used a certain way BECAUSE they are what they are.

I'd advise you to really get to understand the inner workings of the concept called the Network effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect). You may think you already do have it down pat but I assure you that you do not. If you did, you'd know that competition does not survive when it's on your side.

Before bitcoin money was always restricted artificially (by people with guns enforcing borders) from following through to the logical conclusion that network effects would have given them. Bitcoin does not even see those guns and borders. It just doesn't recognize them, like it wouldn't slow down to recognize any bitlicense or other regulation placed upon it either. It's going to keep doing what the 51% of downloading users want it to do... And that will always tend towards freedom.

If all fiat currencies today were cassette walkmen, and bitcoin was a free ipod, states would already have a hard time keeping them away from you, and inevitably fail to do so in the end. -But the real magic here is that this ipod can Teleport into your pocket without ever being detected by the state... How the hell is the walkman going to survive such competition? It's beyond naive to think it could.


Bitcoin is not a religion and Satoshi is not some kind of messiah.
Don't be insulting; I respect his vision but said nothing about religion. If it sounds like religion to you when I talk about economics I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you fail to see the inevitability of bitcoin's domination.  


If you go around saying how Bitcoin is going to abolish banks nobody reasonable will listen to you.
I don't talk about things like this in front of the noobs... Here on bitcointalk however we shouldn't have to hobble ourselves like that; we need to be pushing boundaries.


In fact banks will most likely be using Bitcoin in the future and nothing will "collapse."
Hilarious. How the hell are they going to afford to keep the lights on when they can't charge any fees for their products? Lol... About the only thing they have to offer is loans, assuming they can get their hands on enough coin to loan out in time... But already sites like BTCJam are doing this and getting the jump on them so honestly, I can't see any niche for them to survive in.

Oh, and I didn't use the word collapse... You did that. The dollar will go to Zero but it won't be like hyperinflation of yesteryear because bitcoin exists this time and people have somewhere to move their wealth into for the first time in history. Once it happens just once in some place like argentina (as it partially happened in Cyprus) the world will know what to do when it's their turn.


Even if it was true promoting it in that fashion will assure it always stay weak and never catch on.
Again, if you understood economic incentives better you'd see there is literally nothing I can say to slow down bitcoin's dominance. It will be adopted because of economic reasons, like people not having a bank account otherwise, or it being the only affordable option to the majority of the world.


I used to think that Free state project was a good thing.
I never did. They make waaaaaaay to easy of a target that way.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Kprawn on September 18, 2014, 07:26:12 AM
Have they caught the person, who stole Klee's coins?

Or the person who hacked the nude photos of the celeb ladies?

Well.. Those are linked to bitcoin and it's bad publicity for the whole bitcoin community. We should support and embrace people, who are willing to provide a service like this.

Only when you become a victim of this, will you fully appreciate it's value.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: freedombit on September 18, 2014, 08:06:19 AM
Not sure how it can be done, but in cases where real Bitcoin is missing, it would be nice if users could offer a percentage of recovered Bitcoin. This would be a great possibility for MtGox losses, as well as individual hacking incidences. I understand that "gox coins" are not legal (at least in Japan) because they are considered a security. However, I am sure the Bitcoin community would be perfectly fine with this sort of solution.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Actor_Tom_Truong on September 18, 2014, 10:50:21 AM
It looks like someone is trying to pull the plug and trying to blame Mark Karpeles for the loss of MtGox money.

DO NOT KILL MARK KARPELES
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/17/mt-gox-s-karpeles-on-losing-a-half-billion-bucks-in-bitcoins.html

We know that Mark Karpeles is a half breed. Half European and Half Japanese. We need to collect a sample of Mark Karpeles DNA to find out if he was a descendant of the 13 inbred Terrorist European Bloodlines of the Illuminati. The case might be bigger than you think, Mark Karpeles might be a CIA agent bought & paid for by Central Banks to sabotage the idea of trust in Bitcoin.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 18, 2014, 11:52:35 AM

We know that Mark Karpeles is a half breed. Half European and Half Japanese. We need to collect a sample of Mark Karpeles DNA to find out if he was a descendant of the 13 inbred Terrorist European Bloodlines of the Illuminati. The case might be bigger than you think, Mark Karpeles might be a CIA agent bought & paid for by Central Banks to sabotage the idea of trust in Bitcoin.

American Patriots vs. The 13 European terrorist bloodlines of the Terrorist organization illuminati (also known as The European Union) Full coverage of the current Civil War in America http://civilwarinusa.blogspot.com/


You look like a perfect fit for this project. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRIJ_jpmwzo


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: jaminunit on September 18, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
It would be great if the bounty never gets collected then the bitcoins get retuned to the donors.

I realise that this opens people up to faults like loosing the private key and then the refund being sent to destruction but it would be a nice option to have.
The bounty could have a time limit on them even if it's 5 years, it would be like a cool savings account if it didn't get solved. :)


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: RealMalatesta on September 18, 2014, 09:25:29 PM
I welcome this project.

However, I think it would be great to limit it at the moment to Bitcoin related crimes/scams.

Unfortunately, English isn't my native language, so if some parts of what I write here are not clear, please don't hesitate to ask - I'll try to explain more.

One of the things I do is: I try to teach law enforcement professionals how to deal with crimes in the cyber world in a forensically sound way. This is essential if you not only want to catch a criminal but also want him to be convicted.

It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound. But: There's a lot of evidence one has to collect around Bitcoins. And here I see some difficulties for this site. I therefore would recommend that you put some information in the FAQ how evidence should be stored locally before forwarded to the site.

Btw: I'm working here in Europe on two projects which could add some value to the bountyhunter-project. The basics are set up, so maybe we should get in contact off list.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 18, 2014, 09:34:49 PM

It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: RealMalatesta on September 18, 2014, 09:58:36 PM

It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.

Of course it would be complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in a court of law. But this is the normal day-to-day business: You have to "translate" what happened in the world of technology into the language of a lawyer. And: In a criminal case - and it seems at the moment that most of the cases will be criminal cases - you can give the evidence to a DA. This DA will not only rely on what you give him, but will do his own research in the real world. So at the end of the day, the evidence will be embedded in a whole bunch of other evidence.

In my day-to-day business, I am used that you spend per 100 hours research 300 hours in explaining the evidence to law enforcement. With Bitcoin-related evidence, this rate most probably will rise (in some cases in which Bitcoins were involved, I spent literally weeks to explain the concept of Bitcoins to cops, lawyers, DA and judged). So I do this expert work and agree with you that this is time consuming and complicated and some times as expensive as frustrating, however: Should this be the reason not to go after criminals? Many law enforcement agencies all over the world currently cease cases because they think they are too complicated.

Your argument that a case could be dismissed because of a bounty is void. It may be the case in some jurisdictions, but only in few.

And finally: Given the fact that many law enforcement agencies in the world do not know how to deal with cases in which Bitcoin is involved, and given the fact that media, politicians and banks all over the world repeatedly say that Bitcoin is the perfect tool for comitting crimes: Who else but the Bitcoin community would be the ones who can show that there is a possibility to catch those criminals?


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 18, 2014, 10:07:44 PM

It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.

Of course it would be complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in a court of law. But this is the normal day-to-day business: You have to "translate" what happened in the world of technology into the language of a lawyer. And: In a criminal case - and it seems at the moment that most of the cases will be criminal cases - you can give the evidence to a DA. This DA will not only rely on what you give him, but will do his own research in the real world. So at the end of the day, the evidence will be embedded in a whole bunch of other evidence.

In my day-to-day business, I am used that you spend per 100 hours research 300 hours in explaining the evidence to law enforcement. With Bitcoin-related evidence, this rate most probably will rise (in some cases in which Bitcoins were involved, I spent literally weeks to explain the concept of Bitcoins to cops, lawyers, DA and judged). So I do this expert work and agree with you that this is time consuming and complicated and some times as expensive as frustrating, however: Should this be the reason not to go after criminals? Many law enforcement agencies all over the world currently cease cases because they think they are too complicated.

Your argument that a case could be dismissed because of a bounty is void. It may be the case in some jurisdictions, but only in few.

And finally: Given the fact that many law enforcement agencies in the world do not know how to deal with cases in which Bitcoin is involved, and given the fact that media, politicians and banks all over the world repeatedly say that Bitcoin is the perfect tool for comitting crimes: Who else but the Bitcoin community would be the ones who can show that there is a possibility to catch those criminals?


I agree with what you say if there was some type of organization, say modeled after CERT, that provided information to law enforcement.  However, having one guy in Japan with a personal agenda making bounties and whose experience with law enforcement is getting arrested for firecrackers is not the way to go.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: RealMalatesta on September 18, 2014, 10:13:29 PM

It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.

Of course it would be complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in a court of law. But this is the normal day-to-day business: You have to "translate" what happened in the world of technology into the language of a lawyer. And: In a criminal case - and it seems at the moment that most of the cases will be criminal cases - you can give the evidence to a DA. This DA will not only rely on what you give him, but will do his own research in the real world. So at the end of the day, the evidence will be embedded in a whole bunch of other evidence.

In my day-to-day business, I am used that you spend per 100 hours research 300 hours in explaining the evidence to law enforcement. With Bitcoin-related evidence, this rate most probably will rise (in some cases in which Bitcoins were involved, I spent literally weeks to explain the concept of Bitcoins to cops, lawyers, DA and judged). So I do this expert work and agree with you that this is time consuming and complicated and some times as expensive as frustrating, however: Should this be the reason not to go after criminals? Many law enforcement agencies all over the world currently cease cases because they think they are too complicated.

Your argument that a case could be dismissed because of a bounty is void. It may be the case in some jurisdictions, but only in few.

And finally: Given the fact that many law enforcement agencies in the world do not know how to deal with cases in which Bitcoin is involved, and given the fact that media, politicians and banks all over the world repeatedly say that Bitcoin is the perfect tool for comitting crimes: Who else but the Bitcoin community would be the ones who can show that there is a possibility to catch those criminals?


I agree with what you say if there was some type of organization, say modeled after CERT, that provided information to law enforcement.  However, having one guy in Japan with a personal agenda making bounties and whose experience with law enforcement is getting arrested for firecrackers is not the way to go.

So there's one simple conclusion: Let's help him!


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 18, 2014, 10:46:19 PM

So there's one simple conclusion: Let's help him!

He is part of the original Foundation and he promoted businesses where many, many people lost money at web sites where the Foundation's logo appeared.  The people involved with the original Foundation are tainted and the "brand" is known for scams and incompetence.  The bounties posted are all associated with these activities.  The current situation is attracting all the wrong people and I wouldn't support that.  If some reasonable people got involved I could see the benefit but this is just generating bad publicity for Bitcoin as it is.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Kprawn on September 19, 2014, 07:09:20 AM
Should we not give people an opportunity to right the wrongs, they did in their past?

Was he promoting these services, knowing that they were scams or was he scammed too? 

I believe in forgiveness, if someone :

1. Announce publically that he did wrong, and takes ownership for it.
2. Try to make ammends, by doing something to counter the wrong.
3. Do these things without hidden agendas or to do more wrong.

He had his "strike 1" ...I suggest we give him "strike 2" ......

It's easy to ruin a reputation, it's much harder to build it back up. If his actions add value and it makes a positive difference, it will be better for all.

The governments and press jumps on every opportunity, to bash the bitcoin protocol, when it's not even the protocol that was hacked, but the services using the protocol.

This in a way, can be seen as consumer protection, something that are lacking in the "payment processor" service side of bitcoin, and that is good. 



Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 19, 2014, 11:20:27 AM
Should we not give people an opportunity to right the wrongs, they did in their past?

Was he promoting these services, knowing that they were scams or was he scammed too? 

I believe in forgiveness, if someone :

1. Announce publically that he did wrong, and takes ownership for it.
2. Try to make ammends, by doing something to counter the wrong.
3. Do these things without hidden agendas or to do more wrong.

He had his "strike 1" ...I suggest we give him "strike 2" ......

It's easy to ruin a reputation, it's much harder to build it back up. If his actions add value and it makes a positive difference, it will be better for all.

The governments and press jumps on every opportunity, to bash the bitcoin protocol, when it's not even the protocol that was hacked, but the services using the protocol.

This in a way, can be seen as consumer protection, something that are lacking in the "payment processor" service side of bitcoin, and that is good. 


Right or wrong, what was done in the past, etc. all do not really matter.  What matters is the present situation and the perceived reputation of Bitcoin.  Many of the early Foundation members did irresponsible things over a long period which has resulted in significant damage to Bitcoin's rep and those activities continue.  Some would say that Bitcoin would never be where it is today without those early people.  That is true to a certain extent but I am on the fence whether they are an overall good thing or not.  In any case you can't change history so you just have to look forward.  The early spokespeople of Bitcoin such as Ver, Shrem , Karpeles, etc. and the Foundation itself are all tainted.  Things have changed significantly over the past couple years but some of these early people are not changing along with it.  They think it is normal to run something Bitcoin Bounty Hunter program and set up some kind of screwball video and run threads here.   It is not, it is lunatic fringe activity that damages Bitcoin's reputation.

I complained to the Foundation about this 18 months ago and I told them I thought all the major players such as Gox, Coinlab, and Bitinstant would all be gone within 18 months.  It was obvious to anyone who looked at the situation that all this stuff like Mt. Gox was going to happen.  That fact goes right over the heads of people like Ver and Shrem and they just continue on like nothing happened.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: blatchcorn on September 19, 2014, 11:40:13 AM
Should we not give people an opportunity to right the wrongs, they did in their past?

Was he promoting these services, knowing that they were scams or was he scammed too? 

I believe in forgiveness, if someone :

1. Announce publically that he did wrong, and takes ownership for it.
2. Try to make ammends, by doing something to counter the wrong.
3. Do these things without hidden agendas or to do more wrong.

He had his "strike 1" ...I suggest we give him "strike 2" ......

It's easy to ruin a reputation, it's much harder to build it back up. If his actions add value and it makes a positive difference, it will be better for all.

The governments and press jumps on every opportunity, to bash the bitcoin protocol, when it's not even the protocol that was hacked, but the services using the protocol.

This in a way, can be seen as consumer protection, something that are lacking in the "payment processor" service side of bitcoin, and that is good. 


All of the listed bounties are for people that have the ability to right their wrongs but have not done so


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 19, 2014, 12:00:14 PM

All of the listed bounties are for people that have the ability to right their wrongs but have not done so

How would you know that since the people are not identified?  How do you know what really happened in these cases anyway?  Maybe posts on Bitcointalk from people only known by screen names?  This is the kind of things I am talking about, the people involved with this thing don't have the slightest idea about standards of proof and evidence.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: RealMalatesta on September 19, 2014, 11:15:34 PM

All of the listed bounties are for people that have the ability to right their wrongs but have not done so

How would you know that since the people are not identified?  How do you know what really happened in these cases anyway?  Maybe posts on Bitcointalk from people only known by screen names?  This is the kind of things I am talking about, the people involved with this thing don't have the slightest idea about standards of proof and evidence.

The cases are pretty well documented, beside the material on Bitcointalk. Of course WE do not know what exactly happened for we do not know who the potential scammers were. However, as it is stated on the bounty-site: At the end of the day, it is a judge who has to make a decision, not us.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: HELP.org on September 20, 2014, 01:04:29 AM

All of the listed bounties are for people that have the ability to right their wrongs but have not done so

How would you know that since the people are not identified?  How do you know what really happened in these cases anyway?  Maybe posts on Bitcointalk from people only known by screen names?  This is the kind of things I am talking about, the people involved with this thing don't have the slightest idea about standards of proof and evidence.

The cases are pretty well documented, beside the material on Bitcointalk. Of course WE do not know what exactly happened for we do not know who the potential scammers were. However, as it is stated on the bounty-site: At the end of the day, it is a judge who has to make a decision, not us.

Oh sure.  I like the Bitconia lawsuit.  They are suing for breach of contract but they say "Plaintiff currently does not have any copies of said agreements in their possession ..."  So not one the four plaintiffs even has a copy of the agreement that is the basis of the lawsuit.  Then you have a copy of some email that was obviously edited because it says so at the top.  There are no headers, time stamps, or anything.  Was this suit ever even filed?  What was the result?  There is no docket, order, or judgment posted.

If someone gets wrongly accused (or even if rightly accused but it is not proven) then there is the potential to sue Roger Ver if the site somehow causes someone a problem.  Just by posting the lawsuit on his site if someone is damaged by the posting and the matter is not proven.  Maybe Amir can get funding for his Dark Wallet that way? Haha.  Maybe no more squatting?  he can move in one of these places maybe:  http://www.peoplefinders.com/property-search/name/roger+ver   This is so ridiculous. 






Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: kingscrown on September 20, 2014, 02:13:53 AM
i like the idea but might be hard at some point to decide whatto post there and what not to.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: pollforall on September 20, 2014, 07:27:56 PM
idea is good, for make identify , excelent.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: pawlo74 on October 17, 2014, 03:27:38 AM

So there's one simple conclusion: Let's help him!

He is part of the original Foundation and he promoted businesses where many, many people lost money at web sites where the Foundation's logo appeared.  The people involved with the original Foundation are tainted and the "brand" is known for scams and incompetence.  The bounties posted are all associated with these activities.  The current situation is attracting all the wrong people and I wouldn't support that.  If some reasonable people got involved I could see the benefit but this is just generating bad publicity for Bitcoin as it is.

That is why I got into bitcoin-trader.biz and lost 31,5 BTC (years of saving, hard earned money).

To make it clear I do not blame anyone, I blame myself but all new comers recognize Bitcoin Foundation as a organization they can trust.

That is why shit happen.

Anyway I love BitcoinBountyHunter.com idea ! Thanks a lot for that Roger Ver.


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Kakmakr on November 04, 2014, 01:45:09 PM
The proof is in the pudding ^Smile^
Let's see if this can be successfull and see if there will be any right's from all the wrong's ^HeH^

I doubt if this will work. ^Grin^
 


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Piston Honda on November 04, 2014, 04:53:43 PM
Cool idea, though I can see it being tough to get off the ground fully.  Mind you I hope it catches on!!!


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: BlindMayorBitcorn on November 09, 2014, 03:59:04 AM
This got me to thinking about that Assasination Marketplace. Anybody get off'd for some bitcoins yet?


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: bbit on November 09, 2014, 04:30:02 AM
This got me to thinking about that Assasination Marketplace. Anybody get off'd for some bitcoins yet?

There isn't a marketplace for it yet , but I'm sure someone has lol


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: BlindMayorBitcorn on November 09, 2014, 04:48:17 AM
This got me to thinking about that Assasination Marketplace. Anybody get off'd for some bitcoins yet?

There isn't a marketplace for it yet , but I'm sure someone has lol

Remember this: http://www.digitaltrends.com/web/bitcoin-funded-assassination-market-website/


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: bbit on November 09, 2014, 04:58:32 AM
This got me to thinking about that Assasination Marketplace. Anybody get off'd for some bitcoins yet?

There isn't a marketplace for it yet , but I'm sure someone has lol

Remember this: http://www.digitaltrends.com/web/bitcoin-funded-assassination-market-website/

Ah yes I do recall something like that. I wonder if its still around. OB might do this ?


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: hashie on November 09, 2014, 07:28:17 AM
It looks like Bitcoin Bounty Hunter is being DDoS'd.

Contact us if you need assistance mitigating the attack, we've dealt with DD4BC before (and will be contributing to his bounty).


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: pawlo74 on November 09, 2014, 03:36:15 PM
This got me to thinking about that Assasination Marketplace. Anybody get off'd for some bitcoins yet?

There isn't a marketplace for it yet , but I'm sure someone has lol

Remember this: http://www.digitaltrends.com/web/bitcoin-funded-assassination-market-website/

Ah yes I do recall something like that. I wonder if its still around. OB might do this ?

Oh my god really guys ? I didn't know about that list  :o


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: jelt14 on November 12, 2014, 12:23:33 PM
wondering how and what would happen if you all find any thieves ,what would the consequenced would be jail, hanging ,tar n feathered or is this backed by u.s. marshalls etc  really what law enforcment is running this?? just curious


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: hellojpg on November 19, 2014, 05:51:24 AM
we most contact dog...

the bounty hunter he ith master of bounty i wold like to see a bitcoin hunter show....


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: CryptoCurrencyInc.com on March 18, 2015, 01:42:53 AM


Japanese Police Suspect 99% of Mt. Gox Bitcoins Missing Due to Fraud, Not Transaction Malleability Hack
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/japanese-police-suspect-99-of-mt-gox-bitcoins-missing-due-to-fraud-not-transaction-malleability-hack/


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Bit_Happy on March 18, 2015, 01:45:49 AM


Japanese Police Suspect 99% of Mt. Gox Bitcoins Missing Due to Fraud, Not Transaction Malleability Hack
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/japanese-police-suspect-99-of-mt-gox-bitcoins-missing-due-to-fraud-not-transaction-malleability-hack/

Agreed with that one:
How come Mark K. is not in jail for a very long time?


Title: Re: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!
Post by: Actor_Tom_Truong on August 28, 2015, 12:33:57 AM
Kraken.com now handle MtGox case.

There is a Hollywood movie that portray kraken as an octopus sea monster.
There is a evil terrorist organization known as Hydra (The Octagon). Their logo is also of an octopus.

Video about the Octagon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4bnGMfE5Hc&list=PLYLuVnqE12rQ1_4uTP2PCSjP3-7loQvCq

Take a look at Kraken.com logo. It has both of those characteristics, shape of an octopus and just happen to be named Kraken.

Does that mean, it was the terrorist organization Hydra that stole Bitcoin from MtGox?

You decide.